Warped Blades? Is this a problem with Rough Ryders Medium Toothpicks?

[@gizmocarr3093]

You threw a big log on the fire on this video. I can see everyone checking for blade warp after watching your video. I am staying in the locker room for this game.😅😂🤐

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

As I mentioned, the knife still does what it is supposed to do. So for me, I think as a reviewer it needs to be addressed but as a user, it is going to get the job done. And yes, Rough Ryder should look into this. Perhaps in the future they can use a little thicker blade stock or stick with their tried and trusted 440a.

[@kennymcelheney8470]

Thanks for heads-up.

[@STUFFWEDO]

I have a classic carbon lockback and It is off center. Will check if it is warped. Thank you for sharing.

[@n2jmb]

Interesting topic, thank you for sharing!

[@janetowens7288]

Case has the same problem with some of their toothpicks. I have seen this problem on some of their other knives with a similar clip point blade. Its crazy, seems like an optical illusion because it is so hard to make sense of. I looked at 4 or 5 medium toothpicks before I found a good one. A timely video, sir.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

I own three medium Case toothpicks and none have an issue. Four if you count the fish knife.

[@janetowens7288]

This is not a Case bash. They are the only knives l collect, but when they have a problem I will mention it.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

@@janetowens7288 , I guess I’ve just been lucky. I also wasn’t trying to bash RR in this video. I was just pointing out a flaw. One that I actually overlooked for a long time. As I even said in the video, the knife works just find! The strange thing is every Case toothpick I’ve bought has been via online purchases and all have been terrific. That why I was taken aback by your poor luck.

[@garethbaus5471]

Steels that need a fast quench like T10 are extremely prone to warping during the quench especially if the blade is thin. T10 like 1095 and other roughly equivalent steels has an extremely low hardenability so it requires an extremely fast quench which is probably a significant part of why SMKW took so long to start selling carbon steel knives. I personally don't mind the warping so long as the blade closes normally.

[@nitrorc4life1]

Agree, then add they put those silly long wedges makes it worse. Folks been complaining on the bolsters, phff I would have liked the discontinuing the swedges far more.

[@daven.7685]

Many of my Rough Ryders have wonky grinds. My white bone Barlow has very noticible waves near the tip in the main blade. I had a half whittler or some such that had a wave in the spey, so much so that it looked like the blade had been bent in half and then straightened! I have just come to expect the imperfect to be the rule rather than the exception with my beloved Rough Ryders.

[@mattmartin3169]

I just got 10 knives in the mail and they all had the same thing you had mentioned.

[@daven.7685]

@@mattmartin3169 Yeah, cosmetically, it’s a bit jarring, but it hasn’t seemed to affect the knife’s cutting ability. Perhaps the mirror polish on the blades heightens the visibility of the imperfections. I don’t see these problems in knives from other companies, even Old Timer.

[@TheStreamingEnderman]

I have the same problem with my Otter Messer Webermesser and Arthur Wright Lambsfoot. These are just two examples of this issue, although I have more. I just wish there was a safe way to fix it.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Some times it just happens. And some times the warp is so slight that it is meaningless when it comes to performance.

[@TwoBlades]

Great informative video Tobias. I thought it was just me. I have the Classic Carbon Muskrat and I thought I noticed the blade was off just a little and not straight. Maybe Rough Ryder needs to rethink using T10. I’d like to see them use 1065 Carbon like ABKT Roper Knives uses.

[@kjgas6945]

👍👍🤠🤠 my grandson is carving with me I usually use sloyd knifes. But on softwoods like Cedar I go nostalgic and carve with my sowbelly or my jumbo Stockman! If I got him a Rough Rider sowbelly would it hold up to softwood carving as well as a cheap buck knife? Any thoughts! You don't have to answer just enjoying your videos appreciate it sir!👍👍🤠🤠

[@rmpruitt228]

I have a bad warp with the wharnecliffe blade on a yellow trapper. If I allow it to close slowly the blade edge rests on the bolster, not closing completely. It is a thin carbon steel blade also.

[@DerekMcCoyMusic]

I went through three of these all with terribly bent blades before I gave up. I was really bummed about it because it could be a great knife.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

You and Slick Slicers had similar experiences!

[@DerekMcCoyMusic]

@@KnifeChatswithTobias I even tried to heat and bend one where it should be but I snapped the blade. I love RR and really wanted the knife.

[@DerekMcCoyMusic]

@@KnifeChatswithTobias I even tried to heat and bend one where it should be but I snapped the blade. I love RR and really wanted the knife.

[@bobbyking3503]

I had yet to watch this when I commented on your FB post. Obviously, no big deal -- barely noticeable. I have, however, began to have a problem with getting RRs (three) with bent blades (as opposed to warped, if that makes sense, lol). Nothing too bad, but very noticeable. Two are Barlows -- Worm Groove & Celestial Razor -- both of which have an obvious bend in the very center of the main blade. The other is the Black Widow Wharncliffe, which had a bad bend in the tip, which I was able to straighten a bit. I know folks brag on Chicago Knife Works, but I wonder if they are, perhaps unwittingly, getting factory seconds from RR. All three came from CKW. In fact, almost every RR I get from them has some sort of flaw. Bad gaps in backsprings, badly aligned blades (esp. single blades), scratched blades, scratched covers (on the synthetic ones), etc. It's no big thing, as they are cheaper than SMKW and I've not felt the need to return any. But perhaps this is why they are able to beat SMKW's prices.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

I went through a period of having just about every RR I looked at having an issue. I wasn't alone. This was about eight years ago. And then a year or so later, the production value recovered. My current feeling is the factories in China are still recovering from the effects of Covid and it shows in many brands, not just Rough Ryder. I think we're seeing a similar hit to American manufacturing but it is not quite as noticeable. The bigger issue with much of the American stuff is demand outstripping supply. I think if the current rate inflation increases or drags on for any length of time. You will start seeing bankruptcies and even a further drop in quality. I truly feel that the quality of knives from makers waxes and wanes with the current economic environment. I really do think, that like wine, we have good years and bad years for knife productions. As for CKW, I have only bought from them twice and one those times was was for the Bear & Son Bowie. I've basically determined that because of their shipping charges, the only way I can take advantage of their slightly lower prices on Rough Ryders is to buy $100 worth and get their free shipping. The other purchase included a couple Rough Ryders and they seemed okay or on par with RR from SMKW. But two purchases (and only that included RRs) is not enough to give a fair assessment of the knives they are selling.

[@bobbyking3503]

@@KnifeChatswithTobias Yes, I agree. I'm amazed the factories in China have been able to keep up, regardless of QC. Got my fingers crossed, as we all do, that the economy will pick up. I wasn't collecting then but know 2008 (recession) was a bad year for knife companies. Your wine analogy is spot on: 2019-20 seems to have been a bad year(s) for Case, quality wise. As for CKW, I've placed a few large (for me) orders with them. Only issues I've had are with the RRs, and as I say, none were bad enough to warrant a return (I bought most of them to carry; my EDC rotation is huge, lol). The two Barlows I spoke of actually came from CKW's Amazon store.

[@paulhanley5811]

i have this issiue too , I've kept mine its still useable (just about) I tend to agree with your reasoning , it really is pot luck you get a straight and true blade , its a pity they send them out like that the fault stands out like a sore thumb , this is the sort of thing that puts people off RR , thanks for bringing this to light ,fingers crossed they might pull their socks up , all the best ,p

[@Cameron_OKG]

I picked up 6 of the newer cinnamon stag bone barlows (because they don't have big stupid Rs on them) for gifts and four of the six were really warped . They are in the T10 .Also I went through two of the toothpicks in the classic carbon line before I gave up . The third one is also warped . I do really like the cinnamon stag bone series despite the warp . I my opinion it's the best barlow RR makes other than the RRR spear point barlow .

[@zero61288]

Well I have more bad news about the classic carbon RR knives. I purchased the classic carbon sowbelly a little over a week ago. After a good cleaning, the knife was in great shape. Carried and used it a few times and then just now, picked it up to use the Spey blade and found the blade was cracked. There is a large crack from spine to edge in the middle of the blade and a few more micro cracks from spine to edge towards the tang. I also noticed diagonal hair line cracks along the spine. I’ve had too many issues with RR and won’t be buying anymore. I wish I could add pictures to show you what’s going on. Just thought I would let people know

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

I've heard of similar problems in the past. I think they went over board with the hardening and the blades are too brittle!

[@mikecurtis2585]

They are great knives for the price!!!

[@fossilimprint2954]

Never realized the heat treatment would affect this.

[@brandonzimmermann]

One of my cinnamon stag bone knives (barlow) has a very noticeably warped blade. However since it’s so thin behind the edge I haven’t noticed any ill effect when using it. For the price point it’s not worth the fuss in my opinion

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

I know where you're coming from. Same with the Toothpick. Yes the blade is warped. No it doesn't affect the function of the knife, at least not in my opinion. And for the most part, I had to actively look for the warp to find it! Still happy with the knife!

[@zero61288]

Nice follow up! I agree with it possibly being a heat treat problem and having the swedge. The three RR knives I have that don’t have a swedge and are 440 stainless are almost perfectly straight. The carbon knives I have all have a warp in the blades and they have swedges. Even the 440 swedge blades I have also have a slight warp to them. RR should get rid of the swedge and maybe soften up their heat treat to prevent warpage

[@HeavyMetalHiking]

My Classic Carbon toothpick was so badly bent that I couldn’t live with it and broke it of in a desperate try to straighten it a bit. It was really terrible. I have experienced the bent blades, although not as bad on some RR trappers and stockmans in different series also, but only on the clip point blades. Nice video, by the way!

[@kaizoebara]

Yeah, had a warped cinnamon toothpick w/ damascus blade. Also bent. Real let-down as the dealer had no replacement. Probably a problem with heat treat.

[@slick_slicers]

The one you gave me was very similar to the one you have here I.e. within acceptable tolerances for a knife of this price, but the other two were much worse. I tried to straighten the first one as it was so bad, it needed something done. Unfortunately, it just snapped, so I threw it away, and ordered another. It was just as bad, so I gave it away. I should have returned the one I’d broken, rather than trying to fix it, but you live and you learn! None of my stainless TPs have the issue. And for anyone in any doubt, I’m not complaining about the knife Tobias GAVE me. It wasn’t a trade, but a free gift, and I would likely have never spotted any warping, had I not been looking for it following my experience with the other two.

[@francescolombrici188]

I wonder if punching the nail nick or the tang stamp may be also a cause of warping. Doesn't look like an asymmetric hand guided wrong grinding like you see on pakistani knives.

[@garethbaus5471]

Most of the work on the nail nick was probably prior to heat treating the blade which would be pretty easy to correct, and stamping the tang would pretty much only warp the area around the tang which doesn't match the type of warping shown in this video.

[@haveaknifeday6253]

I’m ok with the SLIGHT warping but I got a CCII half hawk and it was warped terribly. I ended up keeping it but was pretty disappointed

[@terrillschneider3778]

I was thinking as you were laying the blade on the wooden rule last night that the edge of a steel rule might be a better way to check the blades for warp especially if you held it right down the center from pin to point Just my two cents

[@stevepenney2073]

I havent checked mine for a warped blade but it just feels flimsy.I like my fish knife much better. It doesnt feel like its going to bend if i slice an apple.

[@martinjones215]

My classic carbon sowbelly had the same warp. I ended up reshaping the blade to a sturdy pen blade, with the tip under the axis, close to the edge. This accident gave me one of my best whittling tools, but that is unrelated with rough rider

[@stuartgross162]

My yellow toothpick is warped pretty bad. More extreme than yours. I never sent it back as it was so inexpensive.

[@Dglenn2185]

I’ve had this “problem ” also. The word is in quotes because smkw promptly sent me new knives. The classic carbon black micarta barlow came not warped but bent. I had to use pliers to open in. And the single blade cinnamon stag was warped at the tip. Like I said smkw was really good about replacing them no questions asked.

[@stevesinclair4159]

Happy Wednesday Sir Tobias of Gibson. I'll add my unscientific amateur knife enthusiast two pence worth. Could it possibly be a fault that comes about as a result of the manufacturing process? I am assuming that the knife's blade is sharpened by machine, then fitted into the handle either manually or by machine & only then the swedge / nail nick is stamped in either manually or more likely by using an automated press of some sort. If that's the case it might be that the press needs recalibrating and their quality control team have not picked up on the warp as they are probably only testing one or two knives in a batch . Of course it might be that they are aware of the warp but consider it within the margin of error so to speak & not worth recalling thousands of knives as the problem cannot be fixed & does not really affect the quality & sharpness of the blade.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

I'm not sure of their process but some where in the process things are getting wonky and it is happened on the much ballyhooed T10 Carbon Steel Knives. I'm hearing it also happened on some VG10 steel as well. I think they have their 440 processes down pat!

[@stevesinclair4159]

@@KnifeChatswithTobias If anybody from Rough Ryder watches your channel & that of other knowledgeable knife & tool channels that do knife reviews , they will hopefully look into the matter & maybe come up with a fix at the factory level that eliminates WBS ( warped blade syndrome ) before the product leaves the premises because right now they have a stain on their reputation & good reputations can take decades to earn & just minutes to lose.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

@@stevesinclair4159 , that would be my hope. People had been hollering for carbon steel for a long time. RR went for a good quality CS with T10 but it seems it may be harder to work with than some of lower quality Carbon steels such as 1070 and 1075 which are used by other companies. But I still think some the issues have to do with blade thickness and the thinning of the spine with the swedge.

[@John..18]

And so,,,, everyone is running to their knife box, to check out their blades,,, 😂😂🤯🤯

[@jerseyknifeguy6382]

Well the problem is there so thin like tissue paper!!!!! I’ve noticed on some of my rough Ryders with a thin blade stock they are all bent!!!! Thanks

[@propblast82nd]

Do you own any Marbles toothpicks ?

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

I have all of their large toothpicks. The last one produced was the Ram Horn. I have a video on them.

[@andrewnawarycz3026]

For me, it doesn't matter unless it effects my cutting and noticeable by the naked eye 👀 it doesn't matter for $15. If it cost $100 you've reason too complain...

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

As I mentioned, imo, the knife still functions fine. But numerous folks are claiming these knives are near perfect. That claim is not accurate. My other main point is I think some of this could be avoided and also that I’m not seeing this in the 440a line up.

[@jamierouse2932]

Every T10 Rough Ryder that I have has at least some level of warp. Some are better, others are worse. One of the reasons that I have stopped buying regular Rough Ryders. The Reserves are great though!

[@jerseyknifeguy6382]

We have to think it’s a 12 dollar knife we have to except this in this price range……in some cases you may get lucky and get a good one but for the most part you can snap that blade if you blew on it

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Except they make too many other $12 knives and the blades aren't warped.

[@jerseyknifeguy6382]

@@KnifeChatswithTobias the toothpicks have the thinnest blades though!!!!

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

@@jerseyknifeguy6382 , ​ @JerseyKnife Guy - check out the some of the secondary blades on the whittlers and stockmans. Some are also quite thin. Same with the blade on the other Classic Carbons I showed in this video. In any case that is my point...Why are they reducing blade stock along the spine of an already thin blade? The spine of the knife is what gives the blade its strength. To do this on a knife with a slender blade and an even more slender clip point is asking for trouble. They need to drop the swedges on many of the patterns and adjust the heat treat. I've got Frost, Case, and other Rough Rider toothpicks in the same size and NONE of them have this problem. And as for thin blades, the small toothpicks are even more slender and if you haven't seen Mr. Barlows Tiny Toothpicks Olympics, you need to check it out. The blades are much more durable that you think: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fXqlmoFmgMtriZo

[@jeroenvoss6231]

As well as the heat treat (thin stock by swedges) as maybe the grind may contribute to the warp. But i'm just a beginning collector, so i could be totally wrong. Carbon steel is a little trickier then stainless with the heat treat, so i was told by a blacksmith lately. Thank you for addressing this Tobias.

[@jerseyknifeguy6382]

The blade stock is too thin!!!!!

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

The blade are just as thick on the 440A toothpicks, with the exception of the goofy and unnecessary swedge. No warping in the older ones. Warping in the newer ones. So yeah. They thinned the blade spines which led to a weaker blade stock!

[@jerseyknifeguy6382]

@@KnifeChatswithTobias Tobias grab the end of the blade and for Your own purpose watch how easy it is to flex that blade like a bow and arrow and who knows How they heat treated it…… I’d be careful with them blades because even with light use those blades will snap in a heartbeat

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

@@jerseyknifeguy6382 I have cut carpeting with thick rubber padding with my older Rough Rider Toothpicks with absolutely no issues. I've also stripped bark and did numerous other tasks with toothpicks. The blade tips have held up fine. I would not try this with the carbon steel one, however.

[@lewisgreenway5065]

I ordered the Toothpick from Heinnie Haynes but sent an email saying I had seen so many bad reviews could they check knife before sending, I got an email back saying after checking their stock they hadn't got one that was good enough to send out, so they refunded my money, I don't think many companies would be so customer oriented, unfortunately that is the only medium Toothpick I have seen them carry, perhaps Rough Ryder should beef up the knife more like the GEC pattern, then the blade would be stronger. 😁

[@PatheticPeasant]

They're not warped. It's the way they are grinding the blades. One side they ground the bevel on leaving the blade straight. The other side they ground the bevel but also a taper down to the point. On a nice centered grind it would be off the table the same amount on both sides.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Then it was only with the Carbon Steel knives that they are grinding the blades in this fashion as my 440A Toothpicks are fine. And the blades on the Carbon knives also feel twisted when you run your finger down the center of the blade from tang to to tip.

[@WilliamsKnifeLife]

They also use carbon in a black micarta RR2213 single blade sheepsfoot, but it isn't a thin blade. 🐑

[@MrPsiman]

Warped blades ? just another reason to buy SAK stuff and not the ultra cheapy knives. Nothing touches Victorinox's bang for the buck and all of it's utility. I have learned my lessons long ago about knife karma and Victorinox has the best overall

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

As I mentioned I have numerous other RR in 440A that are just fine. But yeah, You can't beat a Victorinox for Quality Control and dang near perfection with fit. There's a reason why I have so many of them and why I carry a Vic Explorer with me everywhere I go!