Was BigFryTV right about The Forever Winter?

All my criticisms come from a place of love. I absolutely love The Forever Winter and really love what it is eventually going to be. This video isn't supposed to be inflammatory at all towards BigFry, TFW, or anyone who enjoys it. It's more or less just me airing out my thoughts on some of the problems with the game. There is a lot of potential here, but it definitely isn't quite there yet.
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[@TheStratRat]

Hey! Just wanted to point out that there will be a demo version (or some other method of testing the game) coming out later this month according to Fun Dog. That nullifies my critique about how there should be a free version. So if you are watching this and haven't bought the game, it might be worth waiting till you can try the demo.

[@802Garage]

Let me save you some time: No. Did he make any correct points? Of course. Was he right overall? Not even close. In his comments he even said the game "fundamentally sucks" which is nonsense.

[@toddconnell8324]

The gameplay at the moment is ass, it’s just that you have low standards. The animations, clipping, performance, glitches, audio. Early access means the game is almost finished, and needs some polish. And on top of all this the AI and stealth doesn’t work. Do you think a game is a thrown together unreal engine environment with some pew pew?

[@RogeringMan]

@@toddconnell8324 "Early access means the game is almost finished" No? Like the game was is in EA because the fans wanted to play essentially the Dev build. Where did you get the news that its almost complete from?

[@michaelreece3937]

I think people have a twisted sense of what early access means. It's not even close to done. The game is like a year in development, like rogeringman said it's basically a dev build you can play now instead of waiting several years. It's a testing ground. Not a finished product just cause the game is pretty doesn't mean it's finished. The concept art for this game is old and already established it's the gameplay that needs work.

[@battenburg6089]

@@toddconnell8324 Your comments show that you have unfortunately been gaslit by most AA or even AAA titles that release into Early Access. They release their games in an "almost finished" state because they have the money to back it up and potentially fix it. Small studios release into Early Access to get funding for the game, and to get community feedback and to improve upon existing features. This was Valves initial goal with Early Access.

[@RipVanWhinkle]

​@@toddconnell8324 meanwhile squad. Tarkov and many other games that opened in early access were also bare bones. Not advocating for or against, but people also seem to forget what early access is

[@MFKitten]

Finally we get the rare genuine early access release. And everyone has forgotten what early access means. You buy into this title with the understanding that this game is legitimately being made right now. If you buy it and get surprised that it's not optimized and balanced etc, you dun goofed.

[@toddconnell8324]

The gameplay should be finished tho bro. Otherwise what are you doing paying to help make a game when it’s literally the devs job 💀

[@tzoanast1061]

​@@toddconnell8324Thats...what early access is. A ton of games are not feature complete in EA. You are literally helping the devs build it.

[@michaelreece3937]

Early access is to access and play a game before full release. The game isn't finished, the game is playable and the bones are there. But the gameplay isn't finished that's what early access is. The game has shooting, it has stealth and it has a gameplay loop and what the Devs have said is there is there, the battles the vibe the experience is all there. It's all insanely basic but it's there in some form and you can see the vision. That's the point of early access. If you want a full game, wait till it's finished. Play the 1.0 release in a few years.

[@sparktite]

So what youre saying is that Satisfactory was actually a finished game sold as early access? Wait sorry, what youre saying is that expecting games to have some level of quality to them or some sort of bar doesnt make sense? The way the game was sounding to me was way more finished, way more playable, way more enjoyable. I know what i bought into but ive played so many early access games over the years that would laugh at a release this bare bones so far.

[@MeoithTheSecond]

@@toddconnell8324 The devs don't all live at home with their sugar mummys and daddys, a team of game devs when it comes to wages costs alot of money that's where early access comes in, else we'd all have to solely rely on multi millionaires investors and organisations like Activision to fund the development of games. The gaming world is a better place because of early access, big investors are often to scared to take risks doing something different, if you don't want to take risks fine but don't knock it other people are free to do what they want with their spare cash.

[@Mc-vw6iw]

Yeah some of his points had merit others were just blatantly wrong

[@comradeanthony4120]

My issue with a LOT of the criticism people are giving the game is it seems like they just were not paying attention. The Devs VERY clearly said at the outset this is NOT a close to finished game, we're going to Early Access for those who want to support us. They didn't want to just crowd fund they wanted to offer the fan base SOMETHING for that monetary help. The fact is these Devs DO need to pay mortgages, buy groceries, enjoy life, and the game itself needs funding. I bought the game knowing this, I bought it expecting a massive mess of an unfinished game. I did it because I WANT to support them. I WANT these Devs to do well. I support their goals and want to help them. If they had done a GoFundMe I would put money in that as well. The fact I got ANYTHING from my support is just icing on the cake. Now here's the crazy part... I've had more fun playing this essentially early access Alpha test than I have playing nearly every AAA game I've touched in recent years.

[@802Garage]

@@comradeanthony4120 Only paying attention to hype and doing zero research then getting upset? Gamers would never!

[@802Garage]

@@comradeanthony4120 Also completely agree most fun I have had gaming in years.

[@rickybuhl3176]

This, this and almost this.. In a weird way, I think the criticism is beneficial to the overall picture in the sense that it means those buying it are people who are cool with the jank and really are buying into the vision. Nothing really said about the game in the next coupe of months is likely to be remembered by the time it releases and they have a few thousand people [paying testers] playing the game and reporting back on the changes they're making and as important steps are taken, those who held off for their particular reasons will eventually join the fray. Personally looking forward to when the game is finalised enough that we get a physical edition with an Artbook - so I can help fund their next game.

[@zuriumob1766]

FACTS brother, spit you shix indeed!

[@yeahnahmate8098]

I dont agree with the night time part, most of the enemies we come across in forever winter are military, likely have night vision or low light devices, they wouldnt have a problem seeing us in dark or shaded areas. I do agree that the stealth is mostly broken though.

[@TheStratRat]

Yeah, I thought about that afterwards and you're right. I think it should vary from enemy to enemy. Like a cyborg will likely have night vision, but maybe some basic foot soldiers won't. Although I do think during the day, night vision shouldn't be viable so hiding in the shadows should still work.

[@yeahnahmate8098]

@@TheStratRat Yeah, it should definitely vary, the basic europan footsoldiers dont have any goggles or fancy helmets, so i'd imagine they dont/shouldnt have nvgs. Yeah, i forgot that using nvgs in broad daylight isnt a great idea, so shadows should work. Will just have to wait and see after a few patches how it goes. I would love to see usable items similar to how the cardboard box in mgs works, like some fancy optical camo cloak, or a trash bag coat, to allow us to almost hide in plain sight.

[@L0stR0gue]

I think a better explanation lies in our "Tac-Cam" equipment. Gameplay-wise it's just wallhacks for the player. Lore wise, we are hacking the skull of a Eurasian Cyborg and this is what they see. The benefit being the ability to locate most troops on the field but still needing to identify their Alliance. Scavs hacking this device on the other hand do not have this downside, being their loyalty is to themselves... And thus everything that moves is a threat to be avoided, or an opportunity to be exploited.

[@802Garage]

@@yeahnahmate8098 It's not really a "stealth" game though. It's a "situation exploitation" game. You think a soldier isn't going to see and hear you from 10 feet away? Or a mech with special targeting equipment? The real point is, do they even care you exist? Of course there is stealth, but it's just not that simple, and it's also not finished. I did do a melee takedown when I snuck up behind someone for the first time last night and it was sweet.

[@michaelklog]

they are robots who see in thermal vision. you know that if you have used the scanner item. it's a cyborgs head connected to a camera you see through so yeah shadows don't help in lore wise.

[@0heck]

Using Early Access was the biggest mistake the developers could have made. They should have done closed alpha tests, because then anyone involved knows exactly why they are there and you won't have clueless gamers using the review system to publicly trash them and content creators using their alpha for clicks. To many gamers have no idea what early access is. It is steams kickstarter.

[@jkjkrandom]

Yeah they should have called it an open beta test if they were going to do this, would have solved pretty much all the non constructive criticism

[@aaronstevens82]

@@jkjkrandom They said when releasing it into early access that they were only doing it because the community pressured them into doing so. The game has been in development for a year, it isn't even close to complete, but at the same time constructive criticism can help development in a positive direction. People not understanding and just screaming like children that the game is broken and not optimized, yeah no shit, but hey critical thinking isn't the strong suit of gamers.

[@elgringofeo9348]

They did make the games private before

[@MICKEYrenraw]

These critisisms are absolutely valid, now is the time to critic, while the game can still be changed, however anyone complaining as if the game is in it's final release need to step back and perhaps return in a year or 2

[@connorp8408]

I am glad I got this game, it's enjoyable. Yes, movement isn't 100% and the patching of enemies is a bit off but this is a game I want to support, and a dev team I want to support. It's early-early access. I'm sorry but anybody who doesn't understand that needs to have their words taken with a block of salt.

[@TheOuroboros84]

the stealth mechanics work to a degree... they are definately there but they are very iffy. Personally I am having a ton of fun wit the game, the worst issue for me (and the most immersion braking) is the spawning on top off you stuff. Almost all of the runs I lost was due to a bunch of melee cyborgs spawning right on top of my ass while perfectly avoiding patrols with the heat scan...

[@vellikaari3008]

Yes and no. Yes, because enemies do spawn on top of you at times, but not in any of the footage BigFry showed. You could see the units approaching beforehand, and then he got mad when he died to his own ignorance, or when he tried to punch above his weight by taking on squads, or standing/crouching in their line of sight. His criticisms are not invalid, but the way he carried himself GIVING those criticisms is what rubbed people the wrong way. That and him just playing like a total NPC, and then getting mad that people called him trash at the game. Either way you take it, it's not a good look, and he definitely should have handled the situation better, instead of acting like he was the only person who got early keys to the game before the early access launch. Phrases like "well I've played the game and you haven't" when he replies to commenters that may or may not have received the same type of key he did does not paint a god picture. At the end of the day, we need to look at his criticisms and decipher which ones are a skill issue (an absolute ton of them are), and which ones are actual flaws. Movement and volume blockers, two examples of excellent criticisms by BigFry, but throwing a tantrum because he's bad at the game is not criticism. It's bitching and whining because the game doesn't baby his dogwater playstyle. It's okay to not like a game because you're bad at it, but admit that it's the reason, y'know? I edned up unsubbing from him during this whole fiasco, because if he can't conduct himself like an adult on the internet, especially as public as KZbin is, and as a game reviewer/news channel, he shouldn't have a platform. None of us were there on his channel just to hear him whine about a game he's not good at. And again, he raised valid complaints, however, they were drowned in the sea of complete nonsense, and things about the game that are provably false. He handled himself like a child, and should be treated like one.

[@cozza1996]

His handling of genuine criticism worries me because I really like his content. I understand when it's just someone shouting "YOURE WRONG LOOOOOL" because that ain't valid criticism you can work with. But it's like, in this work you gotta be so stoic with feedback man and I bet it must really suck when you feel like you've put good work into your channel. There's a damn good reason I don't stream or make crap videos you need to be built different lol

[@kyore789]

Its too early even for early access but I personally can still get my $27 worth out of it even at this point. The biggest issue for me among the sea of bugs is the spawns, they will camp extract sometimes or pop in the second you pull up and then of course sometimes they'll just spawn right on you. Im hoping they add a heli drop in or vehicles drop off for spawns and not just the pop in

[@802Garage]

@@kyore789 The number of people with 20+ hours is crazy.

[@jarvy251]

The extract camping sucks but sometimes you can lure them away with a shotgun blast. Thats easier done in coop ut I've done it solo too. I'm sure we'll get more stealth tools as the game progresses

[@peregrine3400]

You've been caught by the marketing of AAA titles. Early access does not have a bar, it's just EA. The whole purpose is to get feedback, but companies have used it as a marketing gimmick and conditioned players to expect an unpolished/unrefined 1.0+ version of the game and defend it because it's "early access," all the while inducing FOMO.

[@802Garage]

@@jarvy251 Only happens really bad on the timed extracts usually which are rare.

[@kyore789]

@@peregrine3400 You’re right. I think early access could potentially kill a games future if it’s too rough but I think forever winter will be ok

[@Exhithronous-y1n]

He made SOME good points but then he made that fucking "response" video and I've had zero respect for him since.

[@rickybuhl3176]

Couldn't handle stepping out of his echo chamber and got clap back. It was petulant. Like a dick of a character written for a TV show.

[@nepocrates]

I often sneak around all the time and have zero problem with the stealth. I think many misunderstand the stealth mechanic. Its not like other games where you are the center of all encounters. It based upon what is happening, what the mission of the AI is at the time and how you are armed and what items you have on you when the AI notices you. I do not believe there is any indicator that AI has seen you and is ignoring you. When an enemy sees you it may choose to ignore you or not. The Question mark seems to mean the AI is investigating something to some area of concern, where the Red 0 is they are actively hunting in that area. Some times the enemy knows exactly where you are but chooses to ignore you so it has nothing to do where you are hiding. Also you have a Tactical Camera so I assume that some enemies may have one as well and there goes you dark hiding spot. There are also some items you loot that are actually tracked so the AI know all the time where you are and once the Hunter Killers are release you cannot hide anymore. Right now the loot and enemy are often in the same place. There is another thing I notice that if I have quest X the enemy are almost always the same. Like when I want gotcha boxes I will get the risky loot quest and got to scorched enclave and never take any explosives so I am almost guaranteed 1 to 3 gotcha boxes. Thanks for the Video I did enjoy hearing your point of view. it well straight to the point and informative.

[@DewbzThePanda]

i agree and know its optimization is poor but saying 1080p at med settings with 60-70 FPS is barely running is wild to me, a person who has skirted sub 60 fps on low-medium settings for most demanding games though out my 2 decades of gaming, holding back upgrading until i legit cant open the game or can't go beyond 30 fps.

[@TheStratRat]

@@DewbzThePanda I get that. I was a console gamer up until 2020 when I got a gaming laptop and could barely get 60 frames on medium on most games. I was fortunate enough in 2021 to use scholarship money to get a good PC so I'm just saying relative to other games on my current system that it is a huge drop off. Most games I'll be able to run ultra on 1440 for 60 to 70 frames minimum.

[@spacewalrus909]

Well i have around 120 fake frames in 1080p ultra with my RX6800. It would stay the same in 1440p high i suppose. Without frame generation it's like 50-70 fps depends on the map

[@originalpeasant8179]

Maybe I'm old but I never needed anything more than HD with 60 FPS for any game. If it can manage that then it's perfectly playable. Anything more is just extravagant.

[@aaronstevens82]

@@originalpeasant8179 I only have one functioning eye, anything above 60-70 frames I can't tell the difference, it looks exactly the same after a certain point. On top of that, humans overall are developing worse and worse vision over time because of constant blue light exposure, so the need for high fps is just elitism at this point.

[@spacewalrus909]

@@originalpeasant8179 well higher fps feels smoother but 60 is still playable. It's not a competitive shooter after all

[@thaddeussharp1]

He had some fair points, yet he missed you mark quite a bit. It DOES need a lot work, yet very playable. Fo me at 60fps on High settings(then again I gave a i7/4070ti super), I have little performance issues. Stealth is wonky, invis objects while traversing is annoying. With all that, it's still a fun game loop 25 hours in

[@capt_beefheart4159]

I don't care whether it's EA or open beta or whatever. It seems the devs are responding to the community in a positive way and considering all the helpful input they get. It's refreshing to see a gaming developer take their game and the community seriously, and genuinely trying to make it better before it's released instead of saying, "Yeah, good enough" and then dealing with the fallout (no pun intended) afterwards. I think it's a cool game and a great concept quite different from pretty much everything out there. I also think BigFry didn't try to familiarize himself with the game before playing it and posted a bunch of negative feedback to be contrary to the mostly positive response the game has been getting; possibly just for clicks. I personally found parts of his commentary offensive, but that's just me. Fun Dog has been pretty clear about why they're doing this release, so it's on the players if they feel their expectations aren't met. There's a lot of good, positive stuff happening here and we should be supporting it.

[@rickybuhl3176]

So to give poor peasants like myself a heads up - I've run this on an R7 3700X and 2060S [8GB] with 16 GB of Ram and an SSD, for the lols - so below the minimum recommended specs - it runs though. 1080 and 30fps if I want the higher details but it runs. I'm effectively playing this on the last gen console (the ones we got at release, not the upgraded or Pro versions..) but I'm probably still going to throw over 100hrs at it, as is, playing through each character once. It's not close to ready for us to min/max or cheese routes but if I run a pistol and only take in a couple of mags worth of ammo for an AK or PP19 - then I can channel my inner Tarkov Scav. We can repeat "the thing that worked last time" and it'll quickly be too easy but if we make a point of not repeating the route we took last time, not gearing up for war - it can kinda be amusing and at times even fun. I loved New Vegas, XCom and Wasteland 2 - jank and character almost go hand in hand for me but this is a couple years away from getting anything resembling polish or optimisation (though it does *look* good on the Ultra settings, if we're just looking at the world). I can run Tarkov at 4k and get 60fps or 1440 if I want 3 digit frames on that same old system. This feels like optimisation is something they've spent less time on than a single one of the enemies - their art focused approach is nice but it's going to be a shackle if they don't work *much* harder on that aspect than they have been. They're going to be adding more and more stuff which will eat up much of the 'good enough' optimisation that they'll be doing, they need to make big steps, not baby ones in that sense. We got over a year before fine tuning even becomes relevant, the dials are at the 'big turns' stage, some dials that'll be tweaked are yet to even be added, at their end, let alone ours. As for the 'paid' element - we're passed the "hype purchases" of the first week, anyone getting the game at this point should be well aware of what they're getting in to, so I'm fine with keeping the price tag and don't think it makes much difference to the development of the game, which is what is gonna be their focus for the coming years. They don't need players to test their servers or improve PvP elements, so free players wouldn't really be a benefit to the actual game, imo. A year or so before 1.0, then maybe it'd help when they're fine tuning the co-op but we're probably a couple of years away from that.. Anyone buying it kinda knows, if they've done the slightest research, that we're basically one step beyond Kickstarter and pre-alpha - though just naming it "Early Access" in the current games climate probably didn't help them in the first week or so, as the initial Steam reviews showed but even then it took maybe a few days for it to move to Mostly Positive. "Supporter release" would perhaps have been a more true reflection of what we got but most of us that have been following the game for more than a few weeks knew that already. My only really complaint is the whole screen zooming in when I use a scope, really thought we were passed that stage in anything that wasn't marketed [purely] as an Arcade Shooter.

[@sarge2115]

All The Forever Winter has done is remind us that theres a lot of people who dont understand what Early Access is intended for... and to make it better? Steam tells you what Early Access means on their own site. Like ya no shit youre pitching in to an unfinished product. Thats the point... to test and give feedback to the devs while financially supporting them because you believe in them.

[@Bigbellystyles]

Running on a 5900x with a rtx 4080. 3560x1440 res. Capped it at 60fps and turned on the vsync to prevent the screen tearing and it runs perfectly smooth.

[@UriahGnu]

Okay, so I have not played the game, but just a little push back here. The Forever Winter is a relatively small dev team, and AI is by far one of the most difficult areas for any developer. Expecting AI stealth perception mechanics to work like Ghost Recon is "wild", but hopefully with the amount of money the alpha has brought in it is something they can look at, I can't emphasize enough how complex these problems are, and how throwing more developers and money at a problem like that often is not a solution. AI take time and experience to properly implement complex mechanics such as stealth, and the only way developers have avoided this was heavy use of scripting in linear games. Since these games are highly non-linear, there simply is no shortcut, and you have to do it the hard way. Give them time, this was the alpha, the developers knew their AI had serious flaws, but needed money to allow them the time to improve systems like that. If they release the game in this state a while from now, by all means, rage!

[@802Garage]

@@UriahGnu Yes. If game critics/reviewers/streamers would do even a few hours of game development they would have a far better understanding and appreciation. What's already in the game is genuinely impressive for a small team that is also quite obviously focused on the artistry of the game first, which in this case isn't a bad thing. People will play art games with hardly any AI all the time and not complain. However, this is a starting point. Improving and building out the AI from here is a very manageable task and huge improvements can be made. I really look forward to it.

[@TheStratRat]

I agree with the sentiment, but at the same time with AI being one of the main selling points I think it warrants criticism. That being said, I understand AI is very complex and the game is far from finished. Also idk if you've played ghost recon, but even though that game is triple A, the AI isn't anything too crazy. I appreciate your input!

[@UriahGnu]

@@802Garage completely agree. While I'm waiting for this particular game to get further before playing, the art and vibe draw me in already. I've seen far more technically impressive early access games with a huge amount of content that I wouldn't even consider playing because their world's are bland and lack flavor. I hope The Forever Winter and games like it become more popular, and players really need to start expecting every game to be everything. Sometimes and experience can just be what it is, and doesn't have to have all the features every other game has. My favorite game dev quote of the year "A game for everyone is a game for no one".

[@802Garage]

@@TheStratRat A lot of AAA games have stunningly simple and dumb AI. I think you're right that this game gets criticism for it specifically because it's one of few games to showcase AI in this way and make it such an important facet. It will definitely improve.

[@UriahGnu]

​@@TheStratRat as I said the AI will improve with time and the right people working on it, and if it doesn't the devs will deserve all the criticism they receive. They sold like a quarter million copies, that's super impressive, let them cook, but hold them accountable now that they do have proper funding. That's the way I look at it anyway. Cheers!

[@radchad992]

I think a big point is they have to fix different thing at the same time. If they change the routes and vary the enemies those enemies are going to be elites and newer players will no survive any map. If you add elites and different pathing and the guns arnt balanced out or adequate you’re dead. If they fix the stealth and not the pathing and variants the game is easy mode if they let certain enemies see you than go back through all of the above. The game needs polished ALOT abut having played it for hours and unlocked everything and gotten every gun it’s gonna be great when figured out

[@voro8298]

but enemies do spawn on top of you. happened to me several times..

[@TheStratRat]

Yeah, I've noticed when killing squads of enemies sometimes they'll repeatedly respawn right on top of you. Then obviously HK and whatever the jumpy crawly cyborgs are will spawn pretty close too. Definitely needs some adjusting to say the least.

[@TheStratRat]

When Bigfry was complaining about it though, the enemies had not spawned on top of him.

[@originalpeasant8179]

They've been working to change this. I've noted it is both a fixed and proximity spawn (which isn't good combo). If you're not tip toeing you could run right into a spawn without realizing or until you memorize where they spawn. However if you're far enough away they start spawning at different spawners closer to your proximity. IE: They won't use spawners across the map until you get close in Elephant Mausoleum. What they really need to do is create Egress Zones outside the map area. I feel then it won't matter if they consistently spawn or not. Only initial spawns should be inside the map.

[@ramsaybolton9151]

I returned. I'm not confident in the game direction. Little things like making mouse direction tied to movement really hurts with my trust in their direction for the game.

[@michaelklog]

that is only for sprinting. and i kind of like it.

[@ramsaybolton9151]

@@michaelklog Can't stand it. Especially with how there is no Foot IK so you get stuck on a pebble.

[@jarvy251]

I was worried thte game would be utterly unplayable because of how early it was, but Bigfry really went in unwilling to experiment, trying to take on full squads with a trash starter gun that any supposed tarkov player would recognize as a desperation weapon only. Buy a real gun and non-trash ammo and you'll be popping heads. And then his follow up, good god. "OK, I'll play the way THE COMMENTS say I should." I just clicked off the video, I couldn't take that sort of childish passive agressiveness seriously. He was mocking commenters "You'll see yourself next week." Yeah I did see, the game plays pretty well all things considered. I didn't lose my first scav until about my 7th raid, and I now have over 20 hours in. Anyone who's played tarkov or Metal Gear (or better, both) should have a very good understanding of how to go about the Forever Winter.

[@justinwitt6364]

idk who bigfry is, i played the game for about an hour yesterday and did not have any problems running high settings aside from the usual stuff when you first enter areas and have to load shaders but i only play 1080p, the only problems i encountered were mostly with the enemy ai some drones would fly into the ground, sometimes units would spawn on top of each other and get launched in the air, I seemed to only really pull agro when I would basically run into enemies, I'm not sure if I have only played on maps where stuff is a bit more flushed out yet, the game seemed really intuitive with the ui, the biggest gripes is the lack of variation in enemy spawning points it seems like they come from the same spots every time. good video man

[@802Garage]

@@justinwitt6364 The spawn points and types of enemies do spawn, but it's not always match to match so much as seemingly every several hours or day by day. It can be crazy different and way more or less active too. Let's you play a similar scenario several times and then totally changes it up basically.

[@RickRubeck]

The criticisms you made are point on I maxed out my base and I have all the rigs I'm waiting for the game to develop more before I play anymore

[@deviousbutton9211]

No and exactly NO, but not the way you use the word "exactly".. You knew this comment was coming right? You're there.. YOU made the vid.

[@DREADEDuub]

This is gross. So much crying about a game that is EARLY ACCESS. Like I get it you don’t like it cool. What now? Are you gonna play something else? Are you gonna drag everyone who is enjoying the game down? It it wrong for others to enjoy a game you don’t? I love the term if you don’t like it don’t play it bc it speak volumes on how people are entitled to have every game that comes out tailored to their own tastes and preferences. But….we ALL HAVE DIFFERENT TASTES AND PREFERENCES. So how is that supposed to work? Can’t make a game for everyone if no one can agree on anything. So….dont play it if you don’t like it. Call of duty ain’t go no where go play that shooter. Don’t come over here while we are doing what we like and criticize bc you can’t hang

[@msoltyspl]

The game is clunky, but stealth work decently fine. Overall it's called "crouch" and "suppressed muzzle" (if you want to shoot some). The biggest issue are sudden spawns on top of your head. As for performance, yea UE5 is a blight on gaming industry. This shit along with its "nanite" has to die. 17 years old Crysis 1 looks no worse and pumps few times more fps than this (and without upscaling/fgs workarounds).

[@lelouche25]

Also quests are straight up broken at times. The T-90 equipment quest either works or doesn't at random.

[@Mandemon1990]

Last I checked it works as intented, thing is that units don't always drop the component which is by design. Drones, for example, don't always leave behind drone parts, same with tanks. It's kinda up to the RNG if they drop them or not.

[@lelouche25]

@@Mandemon1990 nah man I get the exact comppnent. IE, T-90 Equipment, and it doesn't say i have it.

[@thezombiesatemyhomework7412]

Cyborg map event is where you die most often? Damn man. Listen: just grab an AK, M4A1, RPK, SCAR, or any other rifle with decent capacity. Dont ADS when they rush you and just tap fire at head height. Its a joke. The only dangers on those maps are the invincible bosses. (Which you simply avoid without issue so long as you have chosen a silenced gun) Those maps are free real-estate. Very little danger so long as you can handle the brawlers and such. Side note: Appreciate the video, but I dont agree with your point about paying. They made it very, very clear what people were buying and directly stated on the store page that it was incomplete and on offer for those who wanted to support them and didnt mind the gamestate. We (the community) legitimately asked them to do this.

[@TheStratRat]

Yeah, once I figured out the AA12 was busted I don't really die on those maps anymore haha. Just as a whole before then, I had died on those maps the most. I still definitely prefer the non-Eurasian maps. I definitely see your argument regarding paying, but I personally think even with some of their forewarnings, the game definitely needed a couple months before being put into paid early access (pay if you want system at least). But either way, since they're doing some form of demo later this month, I don't really have a problem with it anymore. I'm glad you appreciated the video, and have fun playing the game! :)

[@thezombiesatemyhomework7412]

@@TheStratRat I honestly understand anyone on the other side of the fence at this point. They could, and likely *should* have rejected the fans requests to release early and wait the several months they had originally planned. I'm personally not scuffed up about it, but after a little more thought, y'all are probably right about it. Seems they agree! Given their announcement of the demo, they must have come to a similar conclusion.

[@arfazero1]

bros running the autism cpu and gpu combo

[@lokstercoolwhip]

I think the first thing they have to work on is spawning and ai

[@elgringofeo9348]

So you get 60-80 fps, bruh thats like saying my car only goes a 100mph, it should go 400, i run it at 50 on a laptop, americans really being spoiled, stealth does work, you can do stealth kills even, the reason why you think they spot u is mostly the mechs is some enemies attack you with out aggro like the snipers and comparing this to GR is not a good argument, the critism is fine for feedback but fry was being rude about it when the devs themselves said the game is in a trash state, why didnt he wait for the demo? Its coming this month, thats because he likes to get his hands on anything and judge those games like they are finished, if he said its trash now come back later thats fine but thats not what he did, he has this extremely toxic way of being and his community is the same, he just likes to be a hater when his game aint nothing speciql either, when ppl ask me if they should buy the game i just say no,if you thinking about it, it means you are worried about if youll have fun, just wait for a demo and play something else for fun instead, ive told many ppl to not buy the game already, ppl can buy that 100$ pre order for bf 2042

[@michaelklog]

you make it sound like the game is finished? it's not even close. the player base called for the pre release to get their hands on it that the devs said okay and released it. this is work in progress.

[@Jellicakes]

I agree with the loot and route issue, not enough dynamic spawning of gear, but maybe that will come, once I realised the Gatcha box spawn I'm no longer worried about losing weapons, (I'm a big chicken with my loot in these games) still struggle finding water though but only been playing a few days.

[@TheStratRat]

If you take the route I was on in the video you should be able to find some water most of the time ;). Also, I recommend checking out some of the easy quests because they'll give out water like candy.

[@connorp8408]

I've got a 6950xt and a Ryzen 9 5900X so a good system. Runs totally fine for me. Again, it's a really good system, just wanted to give people some reference

[@MeoithTheSecond]

I got 60+ fps @ 1440p with shadows turned off and a setting of high with a 5800x3d and a 3080 for a ea it seemed to run fine for me with a few intensive settings turned down(still looked great), still refunded it tho because of other things that irked me, will come back to it again when its on sale and its had more polish.

[@swiftbear]

I think the problem is also gamers and what they expect and think reality is. People running 30 series cards "think" they have top of the line systems that can run UE5 and the latest tech. I'm sorry but you have a previous generation, 4 year old card. It is not current, it is old hardware and you need to upgrade. People get so heated hearing this but its truth. Gray Zone Warfare devs made a statement when they released the game and said " We are building this game on current tech (UE5) and it you have OLDER generation cards (30 series) you are going to have problems. Yes, things can always be optimized and improved but humanity needs to stop with the nonsense that 30 series cards can run UE5 smooth.

[@NicholasBrakespear]

"I'm sorry but you have a previous generation, 4 year old card. It is not current, it is old hardware and you need to upgrade" To be frank, this a major problem with game development at the moment. "Brute force it, bro" is basically the response of all developers who should have been aiming for current gen, which is to say, aiming for it to run on the upper end of last gen hardware, and aiming to optimize well. Additionally, good game design over the past 30 years has revolved around the idea of first absolutely cementing your core gameplay, AI and physics before you actually finalise any graphical assets. Not least of all because the stuff that really matters in a game, such as the movement systems and the AI... are really, really low cost in performance terms. Even physics calculations are now pretty cheap. While I have no problem with this game targeting high-end visuals, the idea that UE5 is even particularly desirable... seems dubious. How many people need to lament the fixation on "cutting edge" visuals that won't perform well until "current gen" is "last gen", and the sacrificing of gameplay on the altar of graphics, before we see a return to an older emphasis on art style over graphical technology? It's not as if The Forever Winter even needs these "current gen" visuals - it has a really striking visual style, and a style that would have looked great on older technology that left more to the imagination. After all, the entire presentation leans in this direction; hazy implications of horrific things on a scale beyond your true comprehension, and the cluttered collapse of a world weighed down by unrelenting conflict. If this game had gone for the now-trendy "PS1-style" visuals, it would have nailed the same mood, and could have focused on butter-smooth gameplay, like some grimdark version of MGS1, with enough performance overhead for even bigger battles and environmental destruction.

[@miguelprima5937]

i just can’t buy into this when i can run many gorgeous games flawlessly with a 3070 and meanwhile there’s tons of garbage looking UE marketplace asset dumps that run at 20 fps and look like im looking at shiny vomit

[@swiftbear]

So the last 30 years I've been gaming I've seen PlayStation 1s go to PlayStation 5s. I've seen CPUs go from 486's to Pentium 1s to Pentium 2s to the multicore beasts we have today. RAM from 8 MB to 128 GB , GPUs from Voodoo cards to 40 series , HDDs to stupid fast SSDs. Whatever, you name it hardware has gotten better and humanity has upgrade over the 30 years I've been in this hobby. But for some reason (post coivd) humanity will not accept upgrading anymore and come up with all kind of elaborate excuses or write a thesis like this guy did of how its on developers to advance graphical fidelity on older technology. At the end of the day this is what it is.... COST. post coivd thanks to inflation and crypto miners your paying $700-$1000 a GPU. If they were still $450 to upgrade this would not even be an issue. Thank your governments , crypto miners and your job that pays a slave wage. AGAIN I'm not saying the EA epidemic of games does need to optimize but there is a point you HAVE to move on and upgrade, even the guy that made this video was almost dumbfounded he couldn't understand how his buddy that had a better GPU then him ran the game better...

[@NicholasBrakespear]

@@swiftbear "But for some reason (post coivd) humanity will not accept upgrading anymore" That's really not the issue. "write a thesis like this guy" Don't be passive aggressive - reply to me if you're replying to me. And I'm sorry if too many words made your brain hurt. "how its on developers to advance graphical fidelity on older technology" Rather disingenuous, reducing everything I actually said to something I didn't actually say in the slightest. "So the last 30 years I've been gaming I've seen PlayStation 1s go to PlayStation 5s" Yeah and you know what I've seen the last 30 years? I saw Quake 3 in 1999... with bots that had a built-in text parser so you could actually chat with them in a rudimentary manner, at a time when "gaming PCs" barely existed at all. I've seen Thief 1 and 2 pushing the boundaries with new stealth gameplay in which you could manually lean against a door to press your ear to it and hear what was on the other side. Deus Ex with its unparalleled player agency, and Homeworld 1 pushing true three-dimensional space strategy just a few short years after the genre was first born. And Unreal 1, visually stunning, and yet optimized so well that it looked almost as good in software mode as it did in hardware mode. Then I saw things slump hard. AI... less and less impressive. Gameplay features cut because they weren't flashy enough, or developers couldn't figure out how to map them to controllers (remember how so many shooters had a prone key as well as a crouch key and two lean keys, until consoles took over?). Optimisation sliding into the gutter, so that where once gaming on PC had a core of "average home PC" now it was demanding cutting-edge brute force performance... while somehow doing less and less with it. Speaking as a gamer who became a modder who became a developer, who built multiple PCs and kept them going for years due to selective upgrades... contrary to your attempts at chastising people for not wanting to constantly make number go up, the real issue has been - developers focusing on the wrong things, at the expense of best development and design practices, allowing standards to degenerate hard and not making best use of currently available hardware.

[@swiftbear]

​@@NicholasBrakespear I would actually agree with everything you said, but we can just agree to disagree about hardware. Unless you want to make a case for why we should have stuck with PlayStation 4's or iPhone 12's and just optimize or "try harder developers" "allowing standards to degenerate hard and not making best use of currently available hardware." - I'm sure (or hope) you realize 30 series cards are not current hardware? Not sure if you're trying to be sly with words. Yes, they are currently available but they are not current "tech". I wonder how well Raytracing would work on a PlayStation 4 if only developers would try harder? I also agree, it's why we have all this "upscaling" DLSS and FSR IMO workarounds to increase performance while keeping visuals, I have said in both my posts yes it is no excuse, they NEED to optimize and get things to run better. Not to mention the fact Raytracing brings my 7900XT to a crawl so I don't even use it, does it need optimized and more time ? YUP. But I'm not delusional to think they can make it work on a 3070. I could not agree more about AI and have been disgusted with lack of development , its why we have a sea of solo survival crafting games out there and it's almost every month another releases. And I get the developer defenders crying "AI is hard" is why they don't implement NPC or companions in games. Dragon's Dogma 1 and 2 had no problem. At least there is a few trying it out there (Bellwright, ASKA, Soulmask) Hardware is always going to advance, its why we are on number "16" of iPhones and there will be a PlayStation 6 and iPhone 17 no matter how much you disagree they should "get better" with older hardware. It will be forced on us, I mean I can't stand all the technology in modern automobiles, all forced on us. You cannot even buy a basic work truck even if you wanted. The only thing that will change the "developer" cycle is people's wallets, Companies that release shallow, minimal content, or (unoptimized) will see it in their sales and have to adapt.

[@themachine4008]

i run a rx6800 with a r7 7700x cpu and at 1440p ultra i am running 100fps with AFMF 2.

[@jeffersonderrickson5371]

I keep saying the 3rd person camera really takes me out of immersive games like this.

[@ramsaybolton9151]

Yeah I hate it. Some of the larger character block 1/3 of your screen.

[@jarvy251]

I think it's a bit necessary as the game is definitely meant to be played like MGS in places.

[@michaelklog]

i think they should have the option to go 3rd or 1st person. and not just when scoping in.

[@TheStratRat]

I like the third person but it would be nice if it was optional or if we could at least switch shoulders.

[@michaelklog]

@@TheStratRat yes but i think it will be added later.

[@2Goood]

agree completely

[@jkjkrandom]

For performance i have a 2060 which is below the minimum specs last i checked but on low i get consistent 50 fps at 1440

[@lelouche25]

Tarkov works about the same lootwise. Certain loot is 'meant' to spawn there. But hopefully spawns are better, and it need to fit your actions. The more you help a faction the more control they exrt. So heavier units for certain factions should show up.

[@TheStratRat]

I think the main difference is that TFW's goal is to be a different experience each time so I personally believe it should be more varied. That being said, if they randomize enemy spawning more, fix stealth, and change their pathing, I would be fine with loot being in relatively the same locations.

[@bane541]

I got a 3070Ti and think it's been running pretty well at my natural resolution of 2560x1440. I don't know what the difference is between that and just 3070 when you showed the route on Ashen Mesa that is... exactly the route I have taken a few times.

[@TheStratRat]

Do you by chance have an intel cpu? The friend I mentioned has an intel instead of amd like I do. Haha, I'm glad to get a bit of confirmation on that route being used. It really seemed like it would be a pretty mainstream route to extract.

[@jarvy251]

@@TheStratRat I Ive got a 3070 and an AMD cpu and it runs pretty well for me. I've got a couple of key settings like particle effects turned down, and I get about 60 FPS.

[@TheStratRat]

Hmmm. I've done a lot of troubleshooting with my setup and nothing seems to make it run well. I've lowered all settings to super low and still have not so great performance. Is there anything you had to do to make it work well or was it plug n play?

[@jarvy251]

@@TheStratRat Nothing, I loaded it up the first time, saw the frames weren't great, turned shadows, reflections and post processing settings down to low right away in the ingame options, and everything smoothed right out. Borderless window might help?

[@TheStratRat]

@@jarvy251 Well, good to hear you didn't have many issues haha. Oddly enough I had tried that and it is very hit or miss. Sometimes I'll gain around 10 frames, other times I'll have no difference whatsoever. Hopefully they'll optimize it a bit better soon for those like myself.

[@lelouche25]

While I've had enemies attack me without a question mark, I was right in front of them. I've had no major bugs, but optimization REALLY should be number one priority. buddy of mine better rig than mine, graphics set to ultra, and Europan drones would not appear for him. Like we could see em, but he could not.

[@TheStratRat]

@@lelouche25 the same drone thing happens to me. It's very strange that it's just been the drones.

[@Sekhatt]

That's more likely network de-sync. His computer for one reason or another didn't receive the message from the host that the drones had spawned and/or moved, so his client doesn't realize they exist, so he doesn't see them.

[@ramsaybolton9151]

@1:30 you are completely wrong lol. If you pause the video you can see " Hunter killers have been deployed" and as he enters the bunker they are literally 2 feet away in the next bunker. They spawned about 15 ft away from him. They didn't make any noise either until they were already in visual range. It's hard to tell if the comms are behind your or just around because the game has poor spatial audio. kzbin.info/www/bejne/i4nKh4KEjJl-iKs @9:40 you will see them in the next bunker about 2 seconds after the message of them spawning in.

[@TheStratRat]

I went back and double checked. If you actually look very closely a little beforehand you can see the enemies from another area starting to walk towards his bunker. Also, he wasn't killed by a hunter killer, he was killed by europan soldiers. I understand why he thought that though, it really does look like they just spawned there if you don't look super closely. On first watch through I also thought they spawned on him. Which don't get me wrong, that was and still is an issue with spawns, that just isn't what happened in that scenario. Oh and you're definitely right about the audio haha. It definitely could be refined a bit more.

[@ramsaybolton9151]

@@TheStratRat You're right about the Soldier. It still seems like they saw him through the walls and made a straight line to him with zero footstep audio lol.

[@hoooyaaa710]

I have a 4070 and have to play on low to get 62 fps lol

[@BeanieBrosPC]

5800x3d and 6950xt most ultra and get 70-90 so. don't run Fullscreen. game has given me no trouble performance wise. worth 27 bucks. great game, it's not a looter SHOOTER. It's a looter. AI has bugs, duh, its early, nothing to complain about. The bugs are there but I have been playing long enough I run thru maps. Sounds like your performance issue is causing more issue than there really is. The matches are defiantly not the same. Unless you haven't progressed. AGAIN, it is early, but I do have issues with stuff myself, no in game VoIP, YET, 3rd person, gets closer to you when 3rd so less pov, stupid shit but I totally EXPECTED when I purchased a 27$ early release. This game is unique, different than all this big studio shit, n i put my bet on this game in the future. Some lil polish and it 100. Can't wait. Hope you figure out your issues because that's not the norm. Good Luck.

[@sparktite]

Finally someone talking about how its nt difficult. Ive only played a few times but so far ive yet to die. Just hug walls, let the ai fight the ai, loot and dip lol. I need to sink my teeth in more cuz i love the atmosphere and world so far. What is an early acces to an early access game? I know what early access is. But ive never heard anyone ever say early access to early access...???

[@TheStratRat]

I was saying early access to an early access since the early access was pushed up in schedule to be even earlier. It was more or less a jokey way to say it was super early released. And yeah the atmosphere is incredible!

[@sparktite]

@@TheStratRat lol ah okay that makes more sense, i had never heard it phrased that way so i thought u were using actual terminology i was totally out of the loop on. That makes more sense tho, they did have some sorta closed testing before it was released right? Makes more sense if i think of it that way as having been 'early access' then releasing to... 'early access' lool

[@millenial_in_the_middle]

Game runs properly on a 4090. So yeah, they need to optimize it for lower specs. Some animations need to be polished too, like Mechs "gliding" over the ground instead of giving the impression of walking (maybe they'll add some debris or something to their steps?). Your RAM is not important for most Video Games though - you need lots of it, if you do heavy Video or Photo editing. I'd guess, that your VideRAM is important, so you need to adjust graphics fidelity in a way, that it doesn't hit the limit. Enemy AI is indeed lacking and needs improvement.

[@TheStratRat]

I mentioned the ram because tarkov is really ram heavy for some reason. So I just wanted to cover all my bases haha. From what I can tell it seems performance is very hit or miss for a lot of people with similar specs to me which is even stranger. Some get fantastic performance, others get really rough performance, like myself.

[@millenial_in_the_middle]

@@TheStratRat It's really tricky as it's not only depending on your specs but what Apps else you've running in the background that might cause a bottleneck - but that doesn't nullifiy the fact that Fundog has to do optimization. For anyone seriously interested, i would wait for end of next year, where Fundog is aiming to release it as v1.0 - everybody else has to be aware to be a tester and all feedback is appreciated by the devs. And Tarky... yeah - that's a whole different monster :D . I'd guess that's Unitys fault there.

[@tezwoacz]

honestly this game deserves to have mixed review, there truly are game design issues with this game. First of all yes enemies do spawn on top of you sometimes, what I noticed is that unlike vehicles, infantry can spawn pretty much anywhere at random, which is a big problem when it happens close to you. Secondly the detection for npcs is really bad, sometimes 2 opposing factions literally come within melee range, stand staring at each other for a half a minute and only then start firing, this causes a problem because they dont fight at the intended range, often times the reason why map is "too quite" is because there are bunch of enemies that are just not aggroing to each other, and you do need them to fight because otherwise the game balance is broken. Lastly the movement is really bad, I dont know why but very often you get stuck, as if glued to some pieces of debree, a few times I had gotten myself permanently stuck behind some wall or vehicle while trying to hide. Now some of these problems can be fixed, but I really doubt AI will be fixed as it would require a complete overhaul.

[@TheStratRat]

I really wish I would've mentioned the AI standstill thing haha. Its hilarious seeing them eye each other down for a good while before shooting. I do have faith they'll fix up the AI though. My guess is that the AI as of now is more of a place holder until they can devote more time to it after initial optimization and networking bugs are fixed. If they don't fix the AI I will be very disappointed to say the least haha.

[@bbonedust]

Here for the support ;)

[@TheStratRat]

Much appreciated!

[@noddledoodle-m6g]

IGN cuphead moment

[@edgars112221]

Stealth mechanics not working? There is no stealth in this game!

[@SebastianA.W.]

wow, L take.

[@goodtimebear1]

Big fry was right about all of it and it sound like some need to grow up some I mean the idiot toilets out there that are the haters. I mean want do you want?...do you want hIs honest opinion or not??? Grow up they act like the devs are doing you a favor lol it a business they need that money to make it worth it sounds like some that saw big fry video just need to grow up well the hates and I got the game and hay I still pay for it didnt I. some maybe people well still buy knowing it 💩 right now and I always fall through the map. And get seen when behind cover from the Npc's that should not see me it was NOT READY FOR Consumption.....and if it dose not make enough then the game is dead in the water there well be no updates it needs a lot of work at one point..... That why big fry was truly honest with his opinion .... Want eles do you want he owns no one anything

[@giuseppebonasorta4514]

Learn English please

[@vellikaari3008]

Are you mentally handicapped just like Fry, then?

[@Hypergen-]

Yooo! Bigfry alt account!

[@vladneacsu]

L take, go to sleep