WAS GUILLIMAN'S REUNION WITH THE EMPEROR THE TRUTH? WHY VALORIS IS THE KEY!

Hi all Rho here! Today we discuss Roboute Guilliman's reunion with the Emperor of Mankind! As we discuss Trajann valoris' role within their meeting. Did he witness the truth of their enoucnter?
General Spoiler Warning to begin as we will be discussing events from across the Warhammer 40,000 universe. So you have been warned!
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Music belongs to Wolf Lord Rho.

[@impretinent]

I agree that Valoris likely saw the physical event that took place. The Emperor communing with Guilliman and giving him his instructions though left a mental/psychic imprint of the event on him that we saw in Godblight. There’s no reason to doubt the sincerity of either the Emperor in the throneroom (“My last tool. My last hope”) or Mathieu conveying the Emperor’s message to Guilliman (“You are His only only hope. You are mankind’s only hope.”). The Emperor has lost the luxury of his human face and was desperate to convey as much to Guilliman as possible in the way that he could as quickly as he could. While Guilliman’s memory is not real in a physical sense - it is the projection that the emperor needed him to have.

[@robertross9019]

I’ll add that having a psychic contact of that magnitude may very well have overwhelmed Guilliman so that the instructions/guidance he was given was imprinted on the subconscious. Add to that the fragmentation of the Emperor’s personality which, according to the lore is actually an amalgamation of powerful psykers was both unknown and unexpected by Guilliman which adds to Roboute’s confused memories

[@keingdougie24]

Exactly

[@Pope509]

This is what I was going to say lol

[@jameslave98]

​@@robertross9019 i dont think the Empororer is necessarily a bunch of psychers

[@robertross9019]

If you get into the lore regarding the Emperor’s origins the shaman of Terra committed mass suicide for the express purpose of creating one gestalt being stronger than the sum of it’s constituent parts; the Emperor is the result of that effort. This, in a sense He is actually They, an unknown number of potent human psykers ritualistically bound into one being; His soul and powers a combination of those that died to create Him.

[@rankcolour8780]

I though it was implied from how Robby could feel the effort the Emperor was putting into pulling his mind together from all the split tasks he was carrying out that his convo with his dad was not a physical one. Robby describes it as "Thoughts battered him" different thoughts at first but as the Emperor finally manages to, literally, pull himself together the different thoughts all overlap and become coherent. It's also described as "Information, too much information, coursed through Guilliman". And at the end "A final drawing in of power, a thought expelled like a dying breath" Sounds purely psykic to me tbh. I don't know if Trajanns mind could have dealt with that anyway even if the Emperor wanted to include him in their exchange if the Primarch who specialised in processing information found it too much. So all he saw was Robby and his pops in silence.

[@John-dp3lo]

Valoris had his memory "adjusted" when he looked back at the throne. The interaction was for Guilliman and the Emperor only.

[@baz44331]

Poor Guilliman, alone and nothing to support him, Guilliman is the soldier that the Emporer always wanted. Soon another brother will return and things will get better for him

[@theemperorschosen7607]

>Then the Lion wakes up

[@____________838]

“Get better”? This is the Grim Darkness of the 41st(ish) millennium. There is no “get better”.

[@VesiustheBoneCruncher]

If I were writing, I would have a loyalist primarch return, but reveal them to have fallen to chaos at some point. Give Rowboat something he understands how to and wants to fight. Narratively, he isn’t nearly broken enough for legit salvation yet.

[@skywillfindyou]

Hey, Custodes are there. His admech genius bro is there.

[@gravitatemortuus1080]

What if the waking of another makes it worse?

[@nikik5567]

They both did. Gulliman had his talk with his father that he remembers, but it was all on a psychic plane, not the physical one that Valoris saw, he saw the physical matters, so his statement of events is objectively true, but there were things that he didn’t and couldn’t see occurring in gulliman’s mind when the emperor went into his head to commune with him.

[@eviljagtech]

It should not be forgotten that it was mentioned in God Blight that G-man is gaining power do to people "believing in him" even though G-man waves it off. It should be pointed out that near all humans are connected to the warp and that in mass they may be able to bend it, even if it means bending it to help G-man. While the Emperor maybe helping him, I think G-man is also getting more powerful without even knowing it because he still doesn't believe all the god stuff.

[@V.B.Squire]

ORDO HYDRA

[@beardfistthegoldenone7273]

He can take his armor off for longer and longer nowadays, maybe his soul is being repaired from Big E and the imperium's faith in him?

[@eviljagtech]

@@beardfistthegoldenone7273 If not repaired then something new is filling the void. Guilliman doesn't have a "warp power" like the others did, and with the revelation the the warp "calms" around G-man, while silly sounding, his inborn warp power maybe to make order out of chaos. This would allow GW to write a story where he could safely enter the warp to fight Chaos on there home turf. I do however think the Big E needs to level blue boy up as he has been dumpstered several times now in fights.

[@moreplease998]

The primarchs are all partially warp entities themselves. Emps made them that way. As a result they're all able to do weird things that typically only warp entities can do. Faith tends to involve a lot of emotion, hope and convictions and those things have a tangible effect in the warp that can be fed upon. In almost every case of a human being religious it leads to malevolent warp entities attaching themselves to the faithful through answering their prayers and then slowly twisting them over years and decades. This is why Emps wiped out religions, in the Warhammer setting they always go bad. The power in faith typically comes from warp entities answering emotional pleas for help and almost all of those entities are malevolent in nature. They're trying to sow the seeds for a psychic harvest and their help comes with an ever increasing price that at first gets inflicted on those around the faithful but over time starts to be inflicted on everyone under the entity's influence. Guilliman growing stronger from faith in him is his warp side nature feeding on that faith. It might corrupt Guilliman or it might not, depends on how the authors want to pan it out ^_^

[@SpearoChris]

Let’s be honest, it’s the Green Boyz that are doing most of the believing lol

[@PhynixDS]

Big E has spoken to Custodians through the mind from time to time, Example through Ra when he was shown things from the Emperor's past.

[@maxstr]

That completely stopped after the Horus Heresy though, he hasn't communicated with anyone until Guiliman

[@justan324]

Well there was that whole thing with that one custodies and both dorn and magus. Think they went on a trip

[@maxstr]

@@ReconCrusader True but they never said what happened in the throne room. She may have just been blasted by "His Glory" from looking at him, or maybe he did speak to her. But (currently) Guilliman is the first and only documented evidence of Emps speaking post-Heresy. I think people don't realize how big this event really is, because it's the first time in Warhammer 40K that acknowledges the Emporer is still alive. Until this moment we couldn't prove that he hasn't been dead for 10K years and the Golden Throne itself was powering the astronomican.

[@Spacefrisian]

@@maxstr No he also communicated with Saint Alicia Dominica

[@maxstr]

@@Spacefrisian The comment above yours said the same thing, but again that isn't verified. Nothing was written about what happened in the throne room, so we can speculate all day. My personal belief is she simply looked at the throne and saw the burning sun. She doesn't get blinded or insane because either she's a null, or she's immune as the Sororitas was originally part of the Emporer's personal guard with the Custodes.

[@fixedG]

I think the Emperor is 10,000 years removed from being capable of conversing, even psychically with one individual and even the mind of a Primarch is incapable of comprehending the totality of what the Emperor was outputting. Speech and even thought happens in series, with one thing happening after another or back and forth. But the Emperor's mind, with all its psychic power and having spread his influence and attention across the entire galaxy for literally every second for 10,000 years, can't do that anymore. I think he "conversed" a ton of different thoughts, ideas, instructions and messages with Guilleman's mind in parallel. That's why he remembers it differently. He's remembering different iterations of what happened in his head at the same time. It wouldn't surprise me if Guilleman subsequently "remembers" things the Emperor told him that he didn't realize or even have any awareness of until much later. He could find whatever McGuffin or person he's been searching for and in a sudden deux ex machina, recall "my father told me how to handle this" or "this is why I'm here" even though he had no conscious idea of it before that moment. Valoris saw Guilleman receiving all of the parallel input but couldn't see what was happening in his head. Guilleman remembers feeling like the Emperor greeted him like an artisan who found a lost tool and I think the Indomitus Crusade is Guilleman being used like a tool. And tools aren't aware of how or why they're being used, though in this case, a living, breathing, thinking tool might be somewhat aware and/or have dawning awareness.

[@1kizhun]

By primarchs being aware of their creation and what they got tasked to do then the self awareness and realisation would dawn on them how much of a designed purposed tool they been used for the basics is a magnificent gene enhanced warrior general first and what passes for their humanity comes second. Then theirs the different bond and relationship between emps and custodes or primarchs if theres talk about being father and son

[@jamesespinosa690]

I'm not 100% on this, but I do believe he is literally a 'living' corpse at the moment. I think his body is supposed to be literally dead.. But I'm not sure.

[@Dadecorban]

While some degree of this is clearly the case, there is no good reason to take the extremist position on this. Nothing the writers have said or anything in the material indicates that this is the case. This would also imply that he basically has no ability to direct people to undertake things on his behalf while being tortured for 10k years; the idea that he is incapable of articulating "FUCK" psychically, in the very least, is hard to to believe. Even the chaos gods interact with their followers through intermediaries in a meaningful way........

[@1kizhun]

@@Dadecorban if horus did a lot of damage physically and mentally since the emps was placed on the throne gravely wounded and in excruciating pain like a last act of a dying king and hes been stuck in that perpetual state 10.000 years and using a load of will power directed to maintain the psychic output for astronomican he cant even regenerate just hover in and out of comatose state and slowly losing his mind so maybe courtesy and philosophical conversation aint to high on his priorities maybe "Aaarrrggghh" gets real useful and giving cold brutal right to the point orders.

[@Dadecorban]

@@1kizhun I think you rephrased what I was saying. Yes.

[@donperez8774]

(A blood and warp frost-covered data slate appears -- Imperial records verifies recorded voice as VIII Primarch, Konrad Curze) "I'll save you the mental anguish over a millennium of analyzing The Golden' Man's words and actions. Put the entire Alpha Legion, the Deceiver, Cegorach and Tzeentch with Daddy Dearest in a room for a truth contest; His conversation will still be the most multi-sided in meanings. He is Alpha, Omega and a vague pain in the butt in changing the terms. Those others are crafty liars who use a nugget of truth; He's a tailor, an artist, sewing galas of finest lies and truths. Huzzah."

[@combomaster666]

Emperor gave Guilliman both instructions and hope. One would not work without the other. He definitely saw doubt and hopelessness in Guilliman over what the Imperium looks like. So he provided him with both plans even if it was via inception and hope so that he has the drive to pursue those plans.

[@peterryczkowski]

i think gmans memories change is because the emperor has task released instructions and "he remembers the instructions'" once mile stones are reached.

[@LoRukeEX]

A theory of mine is that the emperor's telepathy was so intense that Robute couldn't handle it all at once. Every time he thinks back to it, he recalls different details of the reunion.

[@rankcolour8780]

It's not a theory, the encounter is literally described that way. Bobby G literally felt what Big E was pouring into his mind was exactly too much for him to deal with.

[@12SickOne34]

No matter what you think of the Blueberries and/or Rowboat Gullyman, one must feel pity for this poor soul, returning after a thousand years to what the Empire, he helped building up, has become.

[@ryansauchuk7290]

Ten thousand

[@PlagueRunner]

And the only one carrying the imperium on his shoulders seeing what his brothers had become seeing what his father has become and still deciding to soldier on

[@Freyafanboy90]

I believe they are both correct. Valoris saw a deep conversation between Gulliman and the Emperor whereas Gulliman spoke via mental powers. The different memories must be a protection from chaos so if they probe his mind there will be several false thoughts to not only protect the Emperor but also Gulliman as well. I believe these crusades are to find another Primarch like Leman Russ, Rogal Dorn or even going to find Jaghatai Khan. If others are to return Then they must be found, can't wait for them to turn up or something to expunge chaos from the other Primarchs and bring them back to the fold.

[@burniejarvis9298]

It could be they both saw what the emperor wanted them to see.

[@ryansauchuk7290]

Or Big E told Papa Smurf not to reveal the entire plan

[@Subject_Keter]

@@ryansauchuk7290 "I am uploading all my schemes to Win but we cant let the writers or readers know... damn traitors LOVE that i cant do anything"

[@Tiamatdlord]

this seems like a base level wiki take, anyone could've come up with this comment.

[@AvACyberSecurity]

I think Guilliman remembering it differently each time is kind of like before he was on the throne, when people would see him differently depending on what the Emperor chose to reveal. Except in his struggling state while his psychic power is awakening, Guilliman has had all these seperate visions that the Emperor could usually control implanted in his mind so he remembers them differently.

[@saeyabor]

I think both versions are partially true: Valoris saw Guilliman standing there, moving his mouth but saying nothing Valoris could make out, while Guilliman experienced a LONG conversation with the Emperor entirely in his mind, in a format you could call "low-lag, high-resolution Astropathy." The Emperor would do this both because 1) it's the only way he can communicate (re: Sororitas Matriarchs) and 2) maybe to give Guilliman (and Valoris) the dignity of an understandable emotional breakdown going unseen. You could call it that if you were, as Guilliman and a Custodes would, studiously avoiding calling it "a vision" with religious/divine connotations.

[@licensed_beheader]

It was obviously a telepathic conversation like the dude is a skeleton on a throne, I doubt he can vocalize since his throat is probably long gone .

[@Dadecorban]

There is a webway problem, an astronomicon problem, and a corpse problem. None of these problems have even been discussed in the literature. Guilliman needs to bring back the Lion, re-instate the Legions, and send the Dark Angels into the webway to free the Emperor from guarding the portal. Regional astronomicons powered by bred psykers and controlled by Grey Knights need to be built. All of this is so the Emperor can regenerate his body. There is an expiration date on that corpse, and there is more reason to think it dies in 41k rather than 52k. If it dies, Terra explodes, and the Imperium is lost. The Emperor may reincarnate a hundred years later or 10,000 years later but it's all really the same. Until any of these problems are addressed, Guilliman is just putting the life support back on the Imperium, rather than executing some master plan of the Emperor. It's also clear in Siege of Terra books that the Emperor doesn't have a plan for putting humanity back on course to his Great Plan, and it's seems unlikely that events in 41k are more advantageous. It's seems quite possible that the Emperor is simply keeping things going in desperation and penance, rather than working towards any particular plan; he may even have lost the ability to think clearly on the matter.

[@joshbull623]

Is it not possible for Valoris to simply act in the best interest for the Imperium and support Guilliman even if that might not be the true will of the Emperor? Isn't he one of the few Captain-Generals that is sick of just sitting around the palace as everything falls apart?

[@hobblesofkarth3943]

The custodes quite literally are not able to act against the emperor's will or interest. At the very least we can surmise that valoris is 1000% certain that supporting guilliman is not against the emperor's wishes.

[@lincolnosiris3665]

We should all remember, that the Emperor was created through the amalgamation of many powerful souls. When I read the book, I found what transpired in the throne room rather logical.

[@gravitatemortuus1080]

No that's what the emperor tells people. But what if he is a weapon made during the golden age or the dark age of man? What if he is not what we think he is.

[@lincolnosiris3665]

Never has anybody in the Imperium ever told this story to anyone. It is just the character's back story.

[@BM-is5ei]

A backstory which has been put into question. The most recent examples i can think of is, If i remember correctly, in that one necron book. I forget the title. The ... And the divine or something where a c'tan shard openly says big e is a weapon that was created by someone. I find that version much more interesting than some Mass sacrifice nonsense.

[@lincolnosiris3665]

@@BM-is5ei The Infinite and the Divine. The Emperor is indeed a weapon, created by mankind itself to counter the influence of chaos.

[@BM-is5ei]

@@lincolnosiris3665 i highly doubt that shamans story is even supported by gw anymore. It makes zero sense.

[@NemFX]

I'm going to make an argument. The Emperor is NOT calming the warp for Guilliman. Guilliman and his forces are doing that. He is creating the belief and purpose for them. The warp is controlled by emotions, and THAT is how it's being calmed. Proof? Yes. Blood Angels. Specifically Astorath the grim. In his stories, as few of those there are; it is consistently described that anywhere Astorath goes, the warp is calm. It is always described that his ship slipped in and out of the warp like a knife.

[@toyo7836]

That's most likely not true due to the fact that the emperor has awoken and is now playing more of a psychic role in the 40k universe, since the opening of the rift he has been buffed even more, and wouldn't be out of the possibility of him doing that himself. HE LITERALLY BURNED NURGLE GARDEN

[@licensed_beheader]

I think it's the emperor coz its seen that he can generate warp storms so it's not much of a stretch to believe he is calming one . Also during the heresy guilliman couldn't reach terra coz of a warp storm and belief and purpose didn't work then

[@Subject_Keter]

As much as is what the SCP Foundation would do, I think it the Emperor holding thr warp back. How many people would you need to start believing to have a effect and it was like that at the Start, not like halfway in after savinv several worlds.

[@BloodyArchangelus]

All ba are powerfull psykers.

[@gfanikf]

It's Rho here...and so am I!

[@HammarPwnsYourFace]

We are all here, brother….and have been… -Hydra Dominatus

[@patrickfletcher7067]

My opinion for the reason Robute remembers it differently ever time, is because the emperor planted different memories for him to see in the future. Because when Robute retreated to the memory of his meeting with the emperor in his fight against Mortarion, he was going to need the Emperors help. So in the future when Robute comes into conflict with his traitorous brothers or against a powerful xenos enemy, the emperor will divulge information he needs to defeat his enemies. Robute will go back to the memory with his meeting with his father and the Emperor will divulge the information he needs at that particular time. Or the emperor will come help him again like he did against Mortarion. Its a little difficult for me to articulate what I'm trying to say. Different memories for different future predicaments.

[@dathanmaney7476]

Blood angel honor guard reporting

[@snakething87]

“I spoke too him, but he did not speak. It was like communing with a star; burning with radiance, rage, and agony. That… ‘thing’ is not the father I knew, only a fragmented shadow, powerful beyond imagining but hollow.”

[@momsaid]

No emperor just hit everything from Volatris. It was all psychic and he didn’t allow Volaris to see it. There’s no mystery there

[@gravitatemortuus1080]

Lies started the empire, lies will end it.

[@BugraBasgan]

Hey Rho I dont know if you ever read this comment but with every video you keep proving why you are my all time favorite along with Oculus Imperia. The 40k is a harsh brutal universe so ordinary humans, marines and primarchs are all acting tough because they have to be this way. Yet even in this terrible terrible universe there is still a place for a love a small brief one but still there is. Its hidden its subtle but its there. And you my friend are talking about it all the time. Unlike some other KZbinr's who think that Emperor and primarchs are souless emotionless machines who uses billions of humans for their own needs you always keep showing us Emperor + Primarchs human sides which is awesome because their humanity is not just their greatest flaw its also their biggest salvation aganist ruinious powers. Same thing applies to huge figures such as Dante too. So keep doing whatever you doing my friend every video you make about a primarch and emperor is puts a smile on my face great job.

[@HammarPwnsYourFace]

I am Alpharius, and i have arrived here as well,.. -Hydra Dominatus

[@edmundthespiffing2920]

If anything, I hope ADB doesn't not write a book about the Emperor and the Primarchs. That guy has some real daddy issues.

[@Subject_Keter]

Oh god i remember Arch pulling out the big list of ABD crimes and my head flew off my neck.

[@beardfistthegoldenone7273]

This may be true, but holy crap how in the hell do you make Night Lord's lore so good I literally binged the entire series start to finish? I don't like Night Lord's, I don't like Chaos. But my God that man knows how to write a good yarn.

[@edmundthespiffing2920]

@@beardfistthegoldenone7273 indeed. But if you read the Black Legion, you can clearly feel his issue. A very talented writer otherwise.

[@beardfistthegoldenone7273]

@@edmundthespiffing2920 Oof, I couldn't tell, daddy issues are literally the last demons of my Jungian subconscious hellscape.

[@anthonyjordanmoviesandmore2470]

I think it's safe to say you see what the emperor permits you to see the custodian was not permitted to see the real conversation

[@bringerebrethil6176]

Valoris is definitely the one that saw the truth, when it comes to the warp and anything involved can be twisted but what I believe each time Guillaman remembers it different is more like every new piece of info that the emperor wants him to know about by the moment he needs to know of it. For all that is known he could have had the entire last 10,000 years since being placed in stasis force fed into his brain and then the next however long battles he needs to attend in an instant. Example from the DA codex Guillaman appears with the Primaris reinforcements for the Dark Angels and their successors at the moment they are all together and most accepting of reinforcements. Without the Emperors aid Guillaman would have never known where to find The Rock because of how secretive the Dark Angels are.

[@ruaine83]

I'm going to go out on a limb, and say that the Emperor, as you said, gave him more instructions than we currently know. However, Guilliman can only access those that's those on an as needed basis, much like Corax with the primarch DNA. He States he remembers his reunion with his father differently every time, so what if that were various memories being unlocked so as not to overwhelm him with the scope of what needs to be done? Especially with how disillusioned he was upon his awakening. I think that if the Emperor gave him everything at once where he could recall all of it, it very well could have broken him.

[@ElectricRavagE]

The Emperor will ressurect himself using Valoris's body .

[@attemptedunkindness3632]

Not without Candice's help He can't.

[@sambasedsamurai9338]

@@attemptedunkindness3632 WHO'S CANDICE???

[@licensed_beheader]

@@attemptedunkindness3632 you mean Constantine?

[@diskomarhoong4165]

CANDICE LIVES *STOMP STOMP*

[@qigonglungz]

Great Video... makes me want to read the "Master of Mankind" again... GW did a great job creating a Man/God/Being... I just wish they would drop a Pre-Unification - Pre-Primarch series(preferably ABD or Guy Haley)... Love him or hate him, the Big E is fascinating.

[@GrumbleGrimbus]

Bit of a thought, what if GW decided to bring back the Senseis, how would Guilliman react to true biological children of the Emperor.

[@jamesespinosa690]

Can't remember the specifics at the moment. But I think they are still in the cannon.. I remember booking marking one of my books on something that i think was a reference to them.

[@beardfistthegoldenone7273]

The most recent Dawn if Fire series had (spoilers) some kind of warp god/being of some kind about to be birthed from the warp, a GOLDEN being... a being that was human, a man, a woman, and a child all at once. Human chaos god aka Big E ascension time.

[@GrumbleGrimbus]

@@beardfistthegoldenone7273 That or the Star Child, which is what the senseis were connected to

[@BIGAL1973]

Think it’s time for the wolf lord to come home

[@carlstanford7607]

Angron is next then Russ according to the GW old plan. The lion is also rumoured constantly

[@davidtrujillo1689]

I believe emps could’ve put anyone in the path of the indomitus crusade, but he waited for Guilliman because he was the only one that had the power and the capability of pulling it off.

[@Dadecorban]

This video is really just answering a question that is clearly demonstrated in the literature. We know what the Custodians tend to see from the several books written about them. We know that Guilliman isn't lying to himself about what he experienced because we can see inside his head in some of the writing. It's clear that two things are true here. But I love Rho videos so it doesn't matter.

[@Graavigala85]

Pretty clear that Guilliman saw what he saw in his mind, just like in the Horus Heresy books when Malcador visits Emperor, it is told that there is withered man and Malcador comes and gives him water. Its not to be taken literally that he gives him a cup of water to drink

[@isaquemaldrylnesouzar-laen5642]

Everything in 40K have manyquestions without answers.

[@eichler721]

I love this lore about the 2 different perspectives of the meeting with the Emperor

[@DickCheneyXX]

Don't forget about Valdor. He his preparing an army to clear out the webway.

[@kevinduggan201]

I sometimes wonder about the ultra smurfs and weather their seeming plot armour is actually a deep lore GW Easter egg, namely are they so OP simply because Orks think blue is a lucky colour

[@Slayinator96]

Wasn't that just Matt Ward?

[@beardfistthegoldenone7273]

I love that theory, but it seems from the lore I've read that Orks psychic phenomena is localized around strong Waaagghh energy. But the early creators were cheeky blokes. Could see that being Canon in a way 😆

[@callumfinlayson-palmer8393]

Watt ward had really bad writing which is being reconed and the orks only work with their own stuff, and it only party because of their Waagh energy but their equipment has to mostly be working already.

[@williamthayer4702]

Don't forget that Valdor is still out there.

[@illturralli]

The Emperor is thousands, perhaps millions of voices that all are one mind each of its own. Guilleman could perhaps could have been "injected" work the emperor's answer or answers instead of the simple "input output" communication speech is. So Guilleman would have received untold numbers of answers. Which all tries to be in control of all the minds and voices within emperor's existence.

[@eddysplosion]

Primarchs betrayed the emperor. Custodes never did. Let that be your compass.

[@Paul-cu9lu]

Perhaps guilleman's human side saw something, but his primarch programming received the instructions separately. It could also be that the emperor wanted him to see that because it would reinforce the thought that it's actually robute's ideas on what to do. Even though it's all a downloaded instruction set. Makes you wonder about free will and perception.

[@korvincarry3268]

What if all the aspects of the Emperor that he was just barely able to scrap together for this conversation had different conversations with Guilliman in his psyche all at once? After all, we know that, physically, there was the blinding light of the emperor and Guilliman looking sternly. However, we also know that the emperor collected himself for this conversation, and drew as much power as he could, bringing multiple aspects of himself. If each aspect is represented in each of his sons, then it would not be pure, i.e. Guillimans impressive drive and ability to create an empire is an imperfect recreation of the emperors. So, each aspect is a different part of the emperor, yet each one is more powerful than a primarch (keep in mind it was his love of horus that kept him from wiping the floor with him. Even after being mortally wounded, it was seeing horus' act of inhumanity against the guardsman/insert faction member here that caused him to change and then obliterate not only Horus' body, but his very soul. Big E is powerful af.) We also know that Guilliman cant seem to remember the conversation with the emperor entirely, and that things keep changing. This could be because it wasnt just one conversation, but several at once, and his administrative primarch brain allowed him to have it in the moment, but the memory is foggy. So, with the emperors several aspects more powerful than the primarchs they begot, Big E spoke to Guilliman several times at once. Likely one, the human one, was simply outshone by the others, meaning Guilliman did not feel reassured by the Emperors humanity, but he may have missed it in the confusion of several conversations happening at once, thus explaining his changed memories.

[@ThePredator315000]

This leaves more questions than answers

[@starcow17]

In his head, he was probably on his knees, in anguish. But as an Ultramarine; as Guilliman how could he drop to his knees and cry? He may know the emotions it takes, but he probably has very little physical ability to have depressed actions. But it was most likely a mental barrage of strain, (and probably a huge part of that was information he had no clue his mind was automatically being instilled with information) not an actual physical confrontation, all of it happened within a closed string of communication between the two.

[@gabrielpardo4229]

Truth of the matter is Big E. got fed up and has been sitting in his Gaming Chair for the last 10 Thousand years. He's still hard struck Gold.

[@CloudSephiroth]

All G-man needs is one of his bros to talk and ask “Am I going crazy?” He should talk to Constantine about it since he’s the closest thing to a Primarch and has some talks with Big-E in the mind.

[@Marcher1977]

It's not an either/or but an and/both. E wasn't taking to Valoris so he didn't see or need to see what Guilliman saw. It was for G's ears or mind only.

[@davidring681]

I have a question. Is Guilliman a perpetual now? He’s been brought back to life twice so far. Fist by science and eldar magic. The second by the emperor. And When Vulcan was brought back by the big E he regained his immortality so is it possible that Guilliman now has that ability. We have no evidence that he does but it always seemed to me Guilliman has a secret or dormant power. Maybe this is it. Sanginius and Konrad had a similar power. Maybe it had to be Guilliman who returned because of this dormant power. Just a thought.

[@TheKlink]

astartes seem more like cottage industry than mass production. I'm thinking iron/steel production before the second industrial revolution, in the context of the entire Imperium.

[@jasonmellor954]

Who gave the better gift to the Emperor, Guillman or Dorn when they where found.

[@lukasspicasox6027]

they were talking about the tax policies

[@dralord1307]

They both saw the truth. One saw the physical truth. The other saw the emperors truth. What he needed, "or the emperor wanted" him to see.

[@theoxerbox3014]

Saide note i love the relationship between corax and the emperor

[@Subject_Keter]

You know when you got to download windows 10 update? That what happened when Big E had to force 10,000 years of update into Gman, so many new plans and schemes to upload and sort.

[@jakejackel3]

Both saw the truth but Volaris saw the physical truth and Gulli saw the psychic truth. Gulli wanted a hug and a pat but the Emperor's time was very limited so he had to be quick and to the point. The Big E is currently doing what Dorn was doing with all the Battle of Terra's info but on a galaxy large and warp included scale. So Gulli go the proverbial information from a fire hose but he was standing at the bottom of Niagara Falls. This is why he remembers it differently because even his brain can't process the overload of information.

[@madginger3634]

Valoris wasnt invited in to RG and E's private psychic convo. That's all.

[@jamricsloe]

As the WarHammer Turns. You watch to many soap operas. 😏. Keep up the good works.

[@primuspilushb]

Hey Rho, quick thing. For some reason I was unsubscribed to your channel after being subscribed. Might want to keep an eye out.

[@bakuya99]

He isn't that alone he should hang out with salamder marines.

[@AdemTumerkan]

Here’s what I don’t get - if the Big E could show that perpetual the future that is now 41K ~ how TF did he not know about Horus being corrupted? Was that part of his plan also? If so, very badly planned so far…

[@Subject_Keter]

He admitted around Angron finding or so that the Primarchs would fall to Chaos soon. It plans and counter plans with abit of "If you react to the sniper aiming to shoot you, he will kill you first" since the Chaos gods despite declaring to "not care" had to stack their deck hard to squeeze a win. He knew the Primarchs would turn but during the Heresy, he was hopeful they would win as everything uptill the siege of Terra was hidden from his Sight? At that point in the caves, he knew he was screwed and but had to solider on. Also how are you going to beat literally fart clouds that infinitely spawn dudes and only come out after they won the fight they should of already won? Pretty impossible imo.

[@johnnyscifi]

Maybe the emperor made guilliman think the interaction between them was the way he remembered it, via suggestion, and it's subconsciously implanted, incase guilliman were compromised

[@stewartthorpe2533]

Comment for the algorithm gods!

[@johnpyrett4017]

My thoughts on this are both telling their truth but the main reason guillamin has this "religious " experience is to hush the inquisition.

[@DaddyCabby]

The poor guy has been stuck on the throne basically isolated for 10,000 years it was a wonder that he was able to pull himself together to say something. All the primemarks are at the very least remotely psychic it's likely that gilman's conversation with Big E was psychic.

[@V.B.Squire]

I hope the reason Custodes are different is because they are his real biological sons,

[@gravitatemortuus1080]

He has no true sons, he has weapons, they mirror him. Maybe he is a weapon from the golden age or dark age, and all we think is a lie. Maybe, just maybe the star god who said this was telling the truth.

[@V.B.Squire]

@@gravitatemortuus1080 I always thought big E being the first Primarch/Weapon from DAOT was the theory that made the most sense, but can't remember where they said, or hinted that. Maybe he made copies of himself because he was lonely?

[@gravitatemortuus1080]

​@@V.B.Squire One of the star gods talking to Dominus Cawl said it. But he wrote it off. But what if he did not lie? There is not actual evidence the emperor lived in prior ages. But him showing up after the DOAT make since. Not due to he was lonely but he thought like a weapon. To a hammer all resistance is a nail. And to the emperor all he needed was more weapons.

[@V.B.Squire]

@@gravitatemortuus1080 I think big E definitely cares but in a tough love way, Girly man's opinion in universe is still just an opinion

[@BloodyArchangelus]

In contex of Golden Throne.. We know how throne of knights works.... is it a similar tech? xD

[@nurglesgrin8257]

I think ppl give the Emperor way too much credit. He has failed more then he has ever succeeded and most of his failures could have been avoided. From the start he shouldn't have let the primarchs think of him as father if he wasn't going to play the role adequately. Also he should have been up front to the primarchs about there purpose and why they were created and there role to shape the future of all mankind. Then he should have share all his knowledge about the chaos gods to the primarchs and taught them how to defend against it. All pretty simple and yet look how epic he failed....

[@12gagebastis]

Certainly explains g man’s new found interest in eldari

[@justinvandygriff2829]

It is an interesting Theory I'm curious will Games Workshop ever try to revive the two lost primark's in the current timeline or are they just lost to us forever

[@beardfistthegoldenone7273]

They might tease them, but they should be kept secret. That's an aspect of 40k that shouldn't change. It's a good way to explain a lot of strange chapters with weird ass gene seed quirks.

[@justinvandygriff2829]

Good point I just would love to see a pacific island type of primearc you like just one big Mallory type guy with the Totowa on his face and everything. I hope I spelled that Wright a real big Samoan like person

[@beardfistthegoldenone7273]

@@justinvandygriff2829 I got you, that would actually be really sick lol

[@justinvandygriff2829]

Hey wolf Lord rho have you ever came across the atlan forge I came across it today on Facebook and I got some pretty awesome looking models

[@Arshelan]

I'm not sure Valoris heard anything from the Emperor considering how Auric Gods highlights how the Custodes haven't heard the Emperor in a while. Guilliman may have had a conversation with the Emperor but I'm not sold on Valoris. Now as for the Emperor having foreseen this future that one is quite up to debate. In Valdor it sounds like there was some sort of civil war they had been planning towards for the future after the Great Crusade, however it came in an entirely different form from any scenario they had been planning for when the Heresy broke out. It is quite telling about the Emperor's prescience as well in Valdor with how Malcador notes that the Emperor's flaw is that he is too honed in on his vision rather than trying to go the route of an Eldar Farseer and attempting to race down all the skeins of Fate. To a degree it was established in the Path of the Eldar that focusing on a future path too much could force it to come to pass, even if it's something that all of the other farseers of a whole Craftworld were unable to see. I think about this and how the Emperor explained his Foresight in Master of Mankind as the Emperor maybe admitting to have made a mistake with how he zeroed in on his path too much. He thought it was solid, that the climb through the passage of time was a firm handhold, but it was a deception he couldn't see until it was too late because of his own influence on the timeline

[@jamesespinosa690]

I thought in Master of Mankind that the point he was trying to make to Ra, was that his prescience is limited. That even though he has great vision, he can still only see so far. He demonstrates this to Ra by asking him what he see's across the Ocean. A distant island. He tells him "you may be able to travel to the island and learn, but can you tell me what is on it now?" or something to that affect. I think his point was that he is aware that even though he may be the greatest psyker in the galaxy. He isn't a God. He can't see or know everything. He is still fallible.

[@Arshelan]

@@jamesespinosa690 It was both to be honest, though Valdor does expand upon my interpretation a bit with how they seem to plan/ see events as they must occur in that book versus how they do end up happening

[@Ally.Cat.252]

I think the emperor might of put a little piece of his soul into Gman so he can use and control his body remotely.

[@MrJara1018]

Guilliman’s brains got microwaved…..

[@siegeperilous5786]

It was a thirteen dimensional psychic download of 10,000 years of thoughts and needs, hopes even, so the confusion is understandable and though Primarchs are sharp bunnies, at best they can probably only hit about 7, 8 or 9th dimensional thinking, also obfuscation of the actual plan would be necessary most likely considering the foe and a shattered mind is not so easy to read from afar if possible at all and whilst it is difficult enough that the exact right path must be trodden, it is even more difficult as those walking on that path must willingly want to be doing it, intent matters after all. Very very long odds, a tock away from infinity near enough, one misstep, one betrayal the fate of an entire species and reality in the balance always resting on the knifes edge that is slowly make you bleed...... over 10,000 years, yeah I could understand the Emperor being a bit intense :)

[@markrtoffeeman]

The truth, is whatever The Emperor says it is

[@timothylyons5686]

The Emperor is a master psyker. He can imprint on someone whatever he wants them to hear and believe.

[@harryk428]

If I was the big E I was be livid

[@kleanthisxanthopoulos4697]

I have no idea why this is a debate We know that the Emperor stripped himself if his own humanity in order to kill Horus. We know that he is becoming a god if he isn't one already. He is no longer human, he hasn't been a human for 10 thousand years. So Roboute is absolutely right and Valoris' account does not necessarily contradict Roboute's. Valoris saw what transpired into one plane of existence, Roboute saw what the God-Emperor projected in his mind.

[@rankcolour8780]

Was he ever truly human to begin with? A perpetual Been alive for most of human history. Has planet wiping mental powers. When another perpetual who is also a psyker - so himself far removed from humanity - describes the Emperor as "not really human at all by any contemporary measure of the fact" you have to question exactly what he is.

[@yourapeeinguy8263]

I think the big E at this point could never come back to the mortal realm hes just too shattered too much beyond a human now to function in the mortal real now.

[@Ally.Cat.252]

Why doesn’t/hasn’t the emperor heal from his wounds?

[@lucassmith4524]

Ohhh, the Primarch and their daddy isssue.

[@AdjudicatorBrbal]

I really wish they’d make a game thats like warframe but with everything warhammer 40k in it lol

[@Tacoguy1000]

I don't know if anyone in 40k can double jump or glide, or defy the laws the physics and nature as much as the Tenno do. The closest people I see doing this would be the harlequins, and even then, not to the same degree.

[@AdjudicatorBrbal]

@@Tacoguy1000 well there u have it. Characters for the eldar lol, i didnt say make spacemarine glide and jump. If you look at the game its platform is a lot like 40k themes. They have nurgle like infections, they have ork like beings, and they even have bio mechanical beings like the necrons. Give it a character race choice and on go you and your story. Its possible, you have to look harder. Lol

[@12SickOne34]

A Loot Shooter/Slasher in 40k sounds doable to me. And fun. I mean Space Marine isn't far from that if you'd add the grinding aspect to it.

[@AdjudicatorBrbal]

@@12SickOne34 see this guy gets it!!! Lol

[@Subject_Keter]

Also it would be cool if can get those sweet ancient suits working like the ones that always kill people in necromunda and other stuff. Only major hiccup i see is People love their melees over their guns.

[@BookieHeretic]

What if g man has a portion of the emperors psyche in his mind now

[@BookieHeretic]

Like we see with arkhan land and caul

[@mikemoore2791]

Is it possible that psychically and subconsciously RG was told to do what hes doing? Including using a Eldary. I mean, an Eldary who has eschewed the practices that caused the races downfall. One who is against chaos...!!??

[@jeremyw.norwood1453]

\|/ Dang, lucky shot. LoL.

[@starszytatnamsok5675]

#510 like like always. Check the new space matine 2 trailer. J just cant wait for it and j speculate we will se the Primark gilliman but... We will not play with Him. To not shater the power of Tytus as He is a Primatis upgrade. Hehe.

[@brya9681]

I still don't believe the emperor saw the primarchs as sons. even if his intentions were good, he was still a egomaniac, a tyrant and pretty inhuman. It makes sense, he's a God and God's font operate on the same morality as mortals. but he definitely showed by how he treated some better than others tha he saw them as tools, some better tools than others. but he also knew he had to pretend he was their father

[@serlistogiette4168]

Guilliman has the worst hangover in history

[@thesagepilgrim4441]

Rho is an Emp Simp and so am I.

[@samwrai]

Emps of 40k is a cripple, mind lost drunk father/king. He is doing his best with the rest of his mind rests him. Roboute is just a son who for some reason was waiting for something else, what and how could be something different?

[@fireborn]

Both accounts are true and they are both false. Each saw what they needed to see.

[@mphoramathe1801]

Lol.. you need a new chew toy.. so many theories questioning Bobby G, it's almost like Matt Ward aftershock. Let's give the man time to clean up the imperial mess and make peace with the god-mode big E before we start taking pot shots

[@Dadecorban]

It's questionable to guess that the Emperor is the only being to see a certain future. Tzitsnitch basically ran circles around the Emperors plans.

[@Subject_Keter]

He knew the Heresy would come but not exactly happened at the end. Fate reacting to our actions and all that.