WOULD THE CUSTODES STOP GUILLIMAN? THE DOUBT OF THE TRIBUNE!

[@RedClaw87]

As much as the Custodes distrust of Guilliman is a pain in his neck, I think Guilliman wouldn't want it any other way. He wants to be questioned. His actions to be put on trial against what's good and right. Guilliman doesn't like it, when people follow him blindly. He likes to be questioned in his actions, while his orders are still being followed. Everyone that questions him keeps him on the straight and narrow to not sway to any extreme or egotistical thoughts and makes him question himself. He needs that as an outside influence to help remind himself of what he's doing. He needs the outside reflection to get a good grasp of his iner reflection of himself.

[@dapperultron1784]

What's more, is that Guilliman has a history no-men. Naysmiths, similar to Loken. I've read posts that Compre this practice to the concept of controlled opposition, but I am too unknowledgeable in the subject to verify the validaty of that statement. What do you think?

[@Ideo7Z]

@@dapperultron1784 Yes. Aeonid Thiel was one of those guys that didn't blindly follow Guilliman's doctrine and that saved the Legion from getting annihilated by the Word Bearers sneak attack. It's also why the Ultramarines is such a well run chapter.

[@kelman727]

Can’t run an Imperium if every last decision is being questioned by someone else...

[@allmight9840]

@Dapper Ultron Controlled opposition is usually used in reference to politics with key leaders in the opposing party working for the other side while pretending to stand against them. Guilliman on the other hand seems to listen to harsh but honest critics of his policies. They don't "play the part" like controlled opposition. They actively believe in their arguments and back up their beliefs with actions.

[@Pensivelyexpensive]

Demi-god needs a naysmith

[@Ideo7Z]

The Custodes stood by and let the Imperium descend into the shit show it has become by being all Emo over what happened to the Emperor. Guilliman has had to go to extreme lengths to forestall this death spiral because of that. Before you say the Age of Apostasy, they only got involved because the fighting would've spilled into the palace. So unless Guilliman pulls a Horus, they'll roll with whatever Bobby G needs to get shit done.

[@colinbielat8558]

I really get tired of people being custodes fan boys, the Imperium is in the position it is in now because they have just been twiddling their thumbs for 10,000 years. In all honesty they are the greatest threat to the Imperium. After the heresy a full squad of custodes should have accompanied each primarch to protect them and offer consul on matters, they should have had a unit stationed on cadia especially after the first black crusade, they should have removed vandire years ago as his growing insanity made Terra a war zone and a threat to the emperors safety, they allowed a genestealer cult to infiltrate Terra even after all the knowledge they know have on genestealers and tyranids. Its rather horrible how the custodes can't seem to understand that a strong and stable Imperium is the best way to protect the emperor.

[@icesoul17z]

There is a point to the argument, but they are no better than Big G. He is doing what needs to be done. Doing what they should have done. They are the voice of the emperor. When they speak, it is in his name. They are not just warriors, but philosophers as well. If they had stepped up and held the line properly, then the emperor's dream could have still been achieved, if not fully some semblance of it. Instead, they failed not just him, but humanity as a whole. Now Gulliman has to come in and clean the mess-up alone. With his father all but broken and dead and his brother nowhere to be seen.

[@aidanker-foz6511]

You can blame Big G himself for limiting the Custodes to small engagements before the Emperor through some convoluted and slight pushing influenced them back into taking a bigger role.

[@GruwskiTheDogski]

The Custodes WOULD STOP Guilliman if he stepped out of line, they fear, THEY REALLY fear Guilliman stepping out of line and become another Horus. That's the truth we have all of The Dawn of Fire, Plague Wars and that of The Watchers of the Thrones. However my honest thoughts, its more of a personal matter of opinion among the Custodes as a whole. Guilliman is LOYAL to the extreme, he doubt sure, but only because he carries the burden of leadership alone (The lonely loyal Primarch alive, to his knowledge).

[@a.N.....]

Vulcan needs to come back too

[@maxstr]

Yeah but Guilliman’s return could be part of the Emperor's plan, and the Custodes can't prove it otherwise. They won't touch him unless he fully falls to Chaos

[@aaattt8325]

@@maxstr the emperor saved guiliman twice and gave him superpowers, wouldn't make sense for the custodes to not back him when the emperor does

[@blademaker9843]

@Radical Centrist God didn’t the lion and Guilliman overcome their differences already though?

[@licensed_beheader]

@Radical Centrist God All of primarchs have pride problems to some degree with horus being the biggest it's just that the lion doesn't know or bother to hide it .

[@richamaru5217]

I think the custodes will follow gulliman to a point. I think if he tried to take over from the emps himself then they might draw a line. But apart from that they follow him unconditionally

[@shekel8245]

Not sure they'd mind. As long as he didn't threaten the life of the Emperor with his actions or plans it's not in their remit or within their concern to be worried about who is and isn't the leader of the Imperium. All they care about is the preservation of the life of the Emperor, that is their singular concern, they're not there to preserve the Imperium. Everything else isn't even a curiosity to them

[@ironduke5058]

@@shekel8245 The Imperium dying will lead to the Emperor dying. Thus, it is fully their concern. This argument isn't bad, but it doesn't make sense bro

[@Synthonym]

Wasn't it the Emperor himself who made Guilliman Lord Commander? We know Guilliman went into the throne room, and that the Custodes were present.

[@richamaru5217]

The thing is custodes do watch everything that goes on. They have spies all over terra and other worlds. Even custodes that go out to other parts of the galaxy to spie and search for gifted people who could be potential heros. Plus the Lord commander is a Lord of terra now so they are involved in things in a way. They have been forced to be involved as they have themselves stagnated in a way

[@V.B.Squire]

One of them had no problem trying to arrest Lorgar single handed

[@internetpleb4854]

This is all the more reason the lion or corax must return gulliman needs his brothers someone he can truly confide in back him up or truly challenge him Corax could provide that moral support Rebute needs and the lions is his rock who will take no bs

[@sebastianls412]

If GW brings back another it’s likely the lion because we know where he is (the rock) and he’s only in coma (I don’t know the full details about it)

[@markcoroneos7811]

@@sebastianls412 and yet was still not the first to return :p GW have been blue balling us with that one for many a year now haha

[@icesoul17z]

I want them to bring back Dorn or Vulkan.

[@MrBoemmel]

@@markcoroneos7811 Ultramarine blue no less :) But I do think/hope it's gonna be the Lion,with GW adding to the plot with Luther's dissapearance from the Rock and the gathering Fallen Angels. + them being both actors in Imperium Secundus. I am prepared to still being bluebally for a long time though xD

[@west-vf7qj]

It needs to be The Lion and Vulkan not Corax. Corax is already taking the fight to Chaos. The Lion will also take the fight to Chaos and Vulkan will protect the Imperium’s citizens from Chaos and threats within… Vulkan will show them a different way

[@kingcr1mz0n71]

I think it's pretty ballsy to assume the Emperor's will. And for the custodes to mistrust the last loyal son especially with the shield captain having seen Guilliman speak with the Emperor, seems bizarre. Plenty of the loyal sons were unsure of the second founding, but went along with it because Guilliman was right, at that time the breaking up of the legions was necessary. However the sons of Dorn have the Last Wall, so the concept that the legions may be needed once more was thought of. What Guilliman needs is for another brother to return. If the Lion can be awakened, then he could lead the Astares while Guilliman runs the books. The Khan, while able, I think wouldn't know how to handle some of his Nephews, and Russ I would worry about him going full purge, especially on the ecclesiarchy... Vulkan would need time to mend his mind, and Corax is to busy with being a warp ghost.... Idk. But as a son of Guilliman, I am biased towards trusting my gene father!

[@theDuke0001]

you could say horus was the most loyal son....

[@grolash6219]

It's interresting: the 20 Primarchs were meant to balance each other. They fear the implications of Guilliman being alone. The question is: would the Heresy have happened had the 2 missing Primarchs not... disappeared?

[@MWH12085]

We do know the Emperor is completely capable of making dumb decisions so this could've been one of them.

[@ianharrison5758]

I believe it would. Rogal Dorn had Malcador remove his memories of them, and when malcador shows him those memories, he states that the heresy would have been lost already if they were here.

[@MWH12085]

@@ianharrison5758 way back in second addition, they did join Horus in the beginning but after Istvan they were horrified and straight up left. But I still don't think Malcador is being completely honest about the lost two

[@ianharrison5758]

@@MWH12085 I mean all knowledge of them is conjecture at best. We truly have no objective knowledge about them other than the very tiny perspective of others, who 1. either have forgotten everything except that they exist and for some; their names( the primarchs) Or 2. Characters with a vested interest in spreading misinformation about what happened to them. The lost primarchs could be alive for all we actually know. There are hints one of them could deep in the dungeons of terra; but as of right now that’s more of an Easter egg than plot point, so it’s to get taken with a grain of salt. It would be interesting if they were erased to hide them from chaos, because they are the emperors secret weapons if shit hit the fan in a way that made the Horus heresy feel like a walk in the park. Could open up a whole new aspect of the lore, and show that the emperor had plans that extended far past the Horus heresy, with contingencies for even the worst scenarios. It Would make him seem more human in a way. He didn’t know if the imperium would work, so he made plans in case it didn’t. I want the lost primarchs to be more than just mysteries that will never be explained. I want them to be the game changer. Maybe not the salvation of the imperium, but a dramatic shift in power away from both chaos and potentially even the imperium. I have a theory that Valdor and the lost primarchs were tasked with raising a massive army within the webway, as a contingency for him losing the coming heresy. The big fuck you that changes the balance of power, but not necessarily in favor of the current imperium. Maybe he made the imperium as bait, to give the chaos gods the illusion of victory, but in reality super charging his own power, and sealing their fate. He made humanity their biggest source of power, if the majority of humanity were to die off, the chaos gods would never be able to recover from it. But humanity would, if the force that crushes them is humanity itself. The survivors would enjoy a warp almost entirely free from chaos, and within the webway, they could rebuild, and ascend as he always planned. That would also explain why Alpharius joined the traitors, believing the death of chaos was the endgame. Maybe he knew the emperors true plan, and was just playing his role in getting it done. That would make the emperor look like a 5d chess player, and not the monumental fuck up he would be if the heresy actually was the end of his dream.

[@kelman727]

Yes.

[@TheLostPrimarch2nd]

It draws a beautiful parallel. The Custodians are loyal to the Emperor.... Roboute, dear Roboute, is loyal to Mankind and the dream of the Imperium. Were those two objectives clash.... My money is on Rob. Very much so. I would love to see the Custodians seek to imprison/contain Roboute, and where they are about to do so, Big Brother Lion El'-fucking-Jonson steps in and teaches the Custodians why the First earned the title of Angels of Death. Beloved Terra, if Abaddon was pissed about Roboute's return, he would shit himself if Lion returned.

[@Crimson_Loki]

It doesn't matter how much the Custodes distrust Guilliman, why? Cause in terms of their loyalty and obedience they might as well be robots. Without a direct order from the Emperor himself, they won't do a single thing, and make no mistake, going against a primarch is not something that would be done without direct word from Big E. They're not like Space Marines, they're not like Grey Knights, they are well established for having very, very little autonomy. So long as Guilliman has the trust of the Emperor and so long as said Emperor stays silent, Guilliman can tap dance butt naked around the imperial palace and the Custodes wouldn't do a damn thing.

[@Dimitriterrorman]

That is not correct, what has been established is that their loyalty doesnt lie on the imperium but on the emperor specifically, which is why they wouldnt ever become heretics. But they would immediately destroy anyone who they believe is a threat

[@Crimson_Loki]

@@Dimitriterrorman while true, they don't have the autonomy to move against Guilliman regardless of wether they think he's a threat or not unless he directly moves against the Emperor. This was shown with Goge Vandire who despite doing a hostile takeover of the empire and being highly corrupt wasn't moved against by the Custodes until the Emperor spoke up. The Custodes knew he was bad but as he hadn't made any moves against the Emperor himself, didn't have the autonomy to do anything against him. So long as Guilliman doesn't do anything to/against the Emperor, the Custodes won't do a single thing, no matter what they think. Their purview isn't the Empire, it's the Emperor, period.

[@__-tp4tm]

@@Crimson_Loki Please don't forget that while the Custodes were silent and still for the most time, they realized that their uninvolvement in everything made for multiple new threats for the emperor in the long run. They now try to balance their honored duty of protecting the palace with the situation around it, involving themselves a little bit more often than before Doge came to be. Edit: I think the moment the Custodes get to know that Guilliman was planning against the emperor, they would immediately try and strike him out, especially after the events of the Horus Heresy. They would never again accept such a possibility and danger of this scale, so in the current events, most Custodes seem to be a bit more untrusting.

[@StarryDrukhari]

If Guilliman was doing anything against the will of the Emperor, would the Emperor keep saving him from death? Do the Custodes not realize that's what happening?

[@Kareszkoma]

The Custode seem to hate the Primarchs. They do mirror the Emperor feelings in part. The Emperor suffers and in that state for the Imperium, to run the Astronomican. The Heresy happened, only could happen, because of the Primarch. The Primarchs left the Emperor, even the loyal ones. If Magnus the Red would've taken the Golden Throne, only for a day, the Emperor could be rejuvenating greatly.

[@TheRealRightPrice]

@@Kareszkoma If only Big E didn't go out of his way to fuck over, alienate, or otherwise earn the justified hatred of a good half of the Primarch's...

[@Kareszkoma]

​@@TheRealRightPrice Ohh.. common. Half or more of the Primarchs, even the loyal ones are weirdos and some of them are just outright horrible. Don't get this started. The Primarch project wasn't a total failure, but a lot of it were very questionable. Even the Space Marines are questionable to a degree, but without a primarch they can be taken down a lot easier. There were some really good Primarchs, no question about it. But some of them were very horrible, even when they were loyal.

[@HgHg-yp6ft]

@@Kareszkoma Magnus did his best to warn the egomaniac what was afoot, in result the said egomaniac sent away the Wolf and the great bannana boy{s} to "teach him a lesson" and in the proccess pushed Magnus completely in the Chaos while totally missing the warning itself which led to another of his own creations {accountability anyone?} to turn him in Skeletor. When Magnus should have decided to take on the golden xeno instalation, right before, during or after the annihilation of his beloved world, annihilation which was the reward for been a good guy warning about the impending doom? Miscommunication {or the total lack of it} is only one of the quite few deficiency in this character...All this father- sons theme in this fantasy as fas as the Big E and the Primarchs are considered sounds super incredulous anyway.

[@Kareszkoma]

​@@HgHg-yp6ft No. This is twisted too far. Magnus did dark sorceries, which lead to the Council of Nikea, which lead to most legions being untrusting, which lead to the breach of the Webway. Magnus had faults. He was not perfect, far from it. While Leman wasn't fucking right, it is true that most Primarchs were sensitive to the warp, and felt what Magnus was doing is wrong. His brothers, even Curze warned him off it. Because Curze seen the future, and intervened multiple times, so Magnus wouldn't be corrupted. His father, the Emperor warned him multiple times, that he is playing with things he does not understand, and doing sorceries that usually have, and can have very dire consequences. But Magnus, did them anyway. He went too far, and Emps told him not to. Banned him from doing sorceries. He did it again, anyway, and got busted. This is when the brothers petitioned for sanctions, and at the Council of Nikea every psycher got punished because of him. But this is not all, because this keeps going. He did it again. He wanted to warn his father, and accepted powers, from the warp, without question. He breached the walls, and doomed his father and the whole of Imperium. Now that Big-E was mostly out of the picture, one of the most feared thing in the galaxy, the thing keeping Horus back from attacking, that man, was getting weaker and weaker, both keeping the Astronomican and the webway intact, while fighting on Terra and in the webway. This allowed the Chaos forces to march to Terra. Because, Emps would've straight up murdered most of the Primarchs, while now, he needed protection from them. The Big E was far from Perfect, but this one, is on Magnus.

[@yinsloth5001]

It makes me wonder when G man remembers the conversation with the emperor differently each time. If he's not remembering a separate conversation from another aspect of the fragmented emperor.

[@Mandred85]

The thing with the emperor is, that he will be perceived as he needs it in the very moment. Wich means, that the conversation the emperor had, can change it's meaning everytime Roboute recalls it, just by the magnitude of willpower of the emperor.

[@HorusHeresy1982]

The thing with the Custodes is there position of power and failure has made them arrogant and bitter. They stopped seeing things as they were and now just see threats. I guess they can argue everything is a threat based on the past but they abuse the power of their positions to go above there duty.

[@notdoomguy1616]

That's the interesting thing, actually. Personally I believe the problem is that the DIDN"T abuse their power to go above their duty. They were so blinded by their supposed failure to protect their master, that they forgot to act upon the very dream Jimmy set out to the galaxy to accomplish. They could have, if they wished, stopped the Imperium's descent into chaos (the metaphorical chaos, not the literal CHOAZ). Unless, of course, it's all part of the plan. Which, admittedly, wouldn't surprise me at this point.

[@Dontreallycare5]

Its really hard to conceive of this situation unfolding after what happened during the Plague Wars. I could only really see it happening if Guiliman determined that he needed to disconnect the Golden Throne and allow the Emporer to possess his body but the Custodes couldn't comprehend how that would be the Emporer's will for him to die - and at that point I don't think it would be possible for them to bring him down, because so much esoteric shit would have happened that Big G would have the Grey Knights on his side since they are very possibly the only ones in the whole galaxy able to disconnect the deadman's switch - - - - well, really more like the Sigmar Switch.

[@codybates2419]

In Dark Imperium the constant theoreticals he runs on taking on Bobby G are interesting. With even minimal time to react to an attack he stomps the Custodes. Only time they actually "win" is with a complete un-prompted attack.

[@40kbrit47]

No one can stop the avenging son, i should know ive tried - Tribune Colquan.

[@thesquirrelherder]

I love the conversation that aquillon and that historian had where they were talking about how the nature of a custodes was set from the moment of their inception and the historian looking aquillon in the face and saying "so what you're saying is somebody decided that what the imperium really needed was an utter asshole?"

[@JeffandBCProductions]

Great video to work out to, as always. Love your pronunciation. I cannot comment on this matter, unfortunately, as Guilliman and the Ultramarines have been my favorite chapter since I started playing 40k during the Assault On Black Reach era (forgot which season that was). I defer to some of the other comments for criticism of both sides.

[@Wraithlord-fp5lh]

I wonder where the silent sisters would fall on this argument. With the Custodians and imperium who abandoned them or with the Lord Regent who recalled them?

[@GreasusGoldtooth]

Guilliman could absolutely reform the Ultramarines Legion if he wanted to do so. I can't imagine a single Successor Chapter would disobey him if he announced the reformation of the XIII Legion. The fact that he hasn't shows great restraint.

[@LordGadwin]

Its a shame tho that the Custodes let the empire become what it has, letting a most of the population follow the teachings Lorgar Aurelian, teaching that the emperor is a God. When they know that went against all that the emperor told his Custodes.

[@jirojhasuo2ndgrandcompany745]

I think they dont care what the Imperium believes, as long as it ensures the Survival of their creator

[@inquisitorkryptman7893]

Especially when capt general of custodes are also a high lord of terra

[@4hire565]

They let it happen and still held themselves high above everyone else, I love the Custodes, but that’s bullshit.

[@OljeiKhan]

They might have had inside knowledge of the Emprah supposedly knowing about the inevitable "Insert Primarch name" Heresy , and they may have allowed the Imperium to rot for a reason. Or , it might be bad writing.

[@darksider2903]

They don't care about imperium and humanity. They only care about protecting emperor. After what happened to emperor, they went into depression, started wearing black capes as a mark of failure. Their existence is only for the emperor as it was mentioned everywhere.

[@Thenever794]

Great video. Great discussion (with yourself) but great nonetheless. I really enjoy how you analyze different points of view.

[@bellow85]

All good vids man

[@hurnn1543]

What if everything: the heresy, being on the throne becoming the god he always said he wasn't, was the Emperors plan? The way he saw to beat Chaos was to become more powerful than the other 4 gods combined.

[@ryansauchuk7290]

More like the original plan got derailed by the Heresy and this is the back up plan. All if this would've been unnecessary if the Heresy didn't happen or even if the webway project wasn't sabotaged

[@mouseketeery]

@@ryansauchuk7290 Yep, that's my theory - this is Plan B, become a god of mankind. Not what he originally wanted, but the only recourse after Plan A got buggered-up.

[@paulhynes619]

Custodes have always really interested me, they are essentially immortal which makes me wonder if any of the active custodes in the current setting are the same ones that fought in the webway thousands of years ago, hearing their views would be cool, also their conditioning and seclusion from the rest of the imperium seems to have made them pretty "normal, practical and sensible" compared to almost everyone else in the imperium. I mean they are basically demi god's themselves but their entire existence is devoted to protecting the emporer and his secrets beneath the palace. I would really like to see some more lore on them soon

[@jasoncown]

I think there is some validity to the concept that a number of the Custodes still do, and should hold reservations over Guilliman, even the loyal ones. There's an argument to be made that the Custodes have been infinitely more successful in serving the Emperor, even if just by the desertion rate. Guilliman technically split from the Imperium with Secundus so there's precedent for suspicious behavior. There's a lot of complicated interpersonal dynamics at play and it all revolves around the survival of the Imperium, so I don't think it's unreasonable for the Custodes to be suspicious of everyone who isn't taped into a golden chair. Good video Rho!

[@genadity]

This is a loooong stretch

[@kelman727]

Didn’t split anything...

[@dk292]

Aren't the Custodes loyal to the emperor and not the imperium? Unless his actions directly put big E in jeopardy I can't see them doing anything.

[@barrycabbageM34]

Maybe, but big E's survival is dependent on the Imperium, the other factions would gain great mirth in his death.

[@Agustin-1991]

Short anwser: No they can't, Guilliman is the Emperor's regent and lord commander, no one has more power than Guilliman. In fact, he could have them all executed if he wanted and if they fight against that, then they will fighting against the Emperor's Will. Guilliman carries the word and will of the Emperor himself

[@MrJara1018]

I disagree strongly. The Custodian guard is not apart of the Imperium of Man . They are the companions to Big E PERIOD. So Guilliman’s title and rank hold no weight to them. Custodian’s have a duty and the reason they cooperate with Guilliman is because both are aligned. A Custodian would slit Guilliman’s throat should duty call for it.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

It is fare more complex then that! As the Custodian Guard are tasked with His safety, they could declare Guilleman a tread to the person of the Emperor and attack him. At that point every high lord, general, admiral, Arch Magos and Chapter Master would have to make a choice between God's son and God's most perfectly loyal instruments. It would break the Imperium completely.

[@MrJara1018]

@@Kristian.B.Kristiansen It is that simple . Custodian do not care about the Imperium or factions within it. They have unalienable rights given to them by The Emperor .Guilliman within Dark Imperium trilogy , isn’t perfectly aligned with The Emperor or Imperium either. That is literal the argument between Mortarion and Guilliman .

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@MrJara1018 Sorry, but are you agreeing with me? I can't really tell 😀

[@Dreadbringer]

Wrong, he doesnt have the power to sent Custodes yo execution, that would be decñaring himself hereticus diabólicus in the stupidest way ever, he is the sword and the regent but is heavily under surveilance from both Custodes command and the Emperor.

[@DeadBoy665]

A legion of primarc's versus one primarc. What a glorious battle that would be.

[@phantomwraith1984]

Rogal Dorn: "No." Custodes are loyal to guiliman as the Emperor's regent. They won't oppose anything he says

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

No, Trajan Valoris is allied to Guilleman, as he believes it to be the Emperors will. If he became convinced otherwise, he would abandoned any alliance with Guilleman in a heartbeat.

[@sebastianls412]

@@Kristian.B.Kristiansen if the custodes even got a whiff of guiliman planning to usurp the emperor I imagine they’d give him the ferrus mannus treatment in a heartbeat

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@sebastianls412 They would take that extremely seriously, and probably try to ambush him with overwhelming numbers of Custodians, as they well know that he is the superior fighter individually.

[@terminallove3531]

@@Kristian.B.Kristiansen Guilliman? A fighter? He's more of a papper pusher,really.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@terminallove3531 by Primarch standard sure he isn't that good a fighter, but that makes him solidly in the top 20 greatest human warriors and killers to ever exist. A hole squad of Custodians would stand no chance against him in a stand-up fight 10 to 1.

[@Matihood1]

All I'm asking is: When is Lion, the proper counter, going to finally return?

[@shekel8245]

10th edition are the rumours. So maybe late 2023/early 2024

[@MegaHI32]

This idea that the splitting of the Legions was supposed to be permanent has literally less foundation in the lore then the opposite, as noted by the original "Empire of Russ" plan, and Gillaman certainly knew that it didn't actually matter which chapter it was, any of them would basically come at the call of their Primarch, but chapters help spread the Space Marines across the galaxy

[@udp1073]

In the "Gate od Bones" there is the best definition of Colquan EVER.. it is also the funniest line I have ever read in W40K and many many other books..

[@15DEAN1995]

I'm trying to think what guilliman could do to make the custodes turn against him. I don't see guilliman attacking terra any time soon so maybe a fight with one of his returned brothers could be a factor.

[@ryansauchuk7290]

The Custodes stood around for 10 thousand years letting all sorts of shit happen. They are The Emperors bodyguards, unless they believe it posses a threat to Big E they really don't care.

[@notdoomguy1616]

The Custodians would gladly let all the Primarch murder each other, even the loyal ones, if that means no Horus 2: Electric Boogaloo

[@kccustodes2618]

Guilleman remembering his conversation with the Emperor differently each time is HUGE since Primarchs have perfect memory. I personally feel this is huge aspect that is often overlooked. It smacks of Moloch does it not? Also, IMHO, I think there was 1 Primarch that Custodes (at least Valdor) liked, Alpharius. That is something to think on. And yes, Custodes had the job to bring Primarchs to "heel" previously. Think back to Custodes overseeing Lorgar. That did not go as expected tho thanks to Argel Tal and crew. I can almost foresee a return of the Lion and him acting exactly opposite of all predictions, him supporting Guilleman totally! Guilleman would be the Lions only ally against this Imperium. Does anyone think the Lion is gonna be all political with the ecclesiary or is the Lion gonna scream heresy and go to town on them?

[@Zachary_McLaren]

The Lion would immediately start taking heads and I think that Guilleman would join in now that he had his brother as back up.

[@licensed_beheader]

Pretty sure valdor liked leman russ too .

[@kccustodes2618]

@@licensed_beheader Oh yeah, that was so obvious it was like I missed it. Yeah, Valdor likes Leman alot. I hope I live long enough that 30 years from now GW will advance story enough to have them return from their mission together. Or something like that.

[@SittingOnEdgeman]

It's interesting. I think the distrust of Guilleman ultimately comes down to the feudal nature of the Imperium and Guilleman's uncertain place in that hierarchy and structure. The Imperium has effectively devolved into a feudal society in many ways - the obligations of each faction to the other are governed by ancient treaties (and pragmatism). In particular, the obligations of the Astartes to the Imperium are governed effectively by the Codex Astartes - limit the size of your chapter, provide a tithe of geneseed for inspection, and use your forces generally to serve the interests of the Imperium; in exchange the Mechanicus will give you arms and armor and you will otherwise be left alone and to your own devices. I think that's part of the key question: do you view Guilleman and the Primarchs as part of the Administratum or part of the Astartes? There's obviously more factors to it, but I think that question helps highlight the differences between opinions on Guilleman. If you view him as part of the Administratum, then he stands above the High Lords as Lord Regent of the Imperium and has appropriately given dispensation to the Astartes to violate the Codex for a limited period of time and for a limited purpose. If you view him as part of the Astartes, then he is guilty of the high heresy of Legion-building and declaring himself Warmaster (i.e., "Lord Commander"). He has usurped the Administratum and stands as an Astartes dominating humans - the very thing that the Codex was designed to prevent.

[@gavincross2902]

A Custodes is to a space marine as a Primarch is to a Custodes. A handy ally for Gulliman yet of no challenge to smack down if needed.

[@feature8]

Wouldn't just lead to a civil war, that Guillman would ultimately win but leave the Imperium so vulnerable to the mounting threats.

[@fluffly3606]

Now that you mention it there are circumstantial parallels between Guilliman's actions/interactions with the Emperor and legends about Tzeentch and his manipulations.

[@lawrencegreenwood2646]

They could try. They would fail if they attempted to sanction Guilleman or any other Primarch. There not just facing a Primarch but there own bodyguards and warriors.

[@miguelperez9906]

Yea I think that Trajan would most likely agree more with guillermen though and he’s the one outside the big E who really has pull with the custodes. In general the custodes are really more prone to passively defend the emperor while Trajan seems to be more active in how he intends to defend the emperor as in go out and eliminate the treats rather than fortify the world further and wait for them to come. I think it’s more a question on how they intend to be loyal and how they would prefer to do the emperors will. If I remember correctly the custodes seem to respect/ have a slight preference twards Sanguineous due to having previously have functioned along with his logion as the emperors honor guard though this roll was short lived.

[@paulsegers1880]

I thought the Emperor spoke to the original Sisters of Battle during Goge Vandire times?

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

1000th like! The Custodes are hot and cold with me. I love their loyalty to Emperor. I do NOT care for their willingness to sell the rest of the Imperium down the river, their irrational throat-slitting of primaris resources, their jobbing the Sisters of Silence, etc. I think that Valoris intends good, but he lacks the full measure of free will that allows him to take calculated risks. But since the Custodes don't recognize the ethereal, you can't expect Valoris to see things that Guilliman could see. For instance, Valoris is wrong in the sense that we KNOW that the Emperor has spoken mentally to people since his being placed upon the Golden Throne. I really want the Lion to return and reunite the 1st Legion as the "Left Hand of the Emperor". The Grey Knights might also be unable to turn against the Emperor.

[@emanymton7184]

Always hope for the best but prepare for the worst. C hopes Girlyman won't turn into Horus 2.0 but does run sims in case he does. Usually a despot recognizes he crossed the line when he is already wading knee-deep in blood. And with a being as potent as big Smurf it is best to stop him when he sticks his toe over. Else you might not get a chance at all. Also Gullible may even appreciate having a naysayer in his court to keep him honest.

[@MrBASShunt3r]

Maybe Colcuan will be the first Custodys to falls to chaos. He's literally questioning the Empirer.

[@asantiago2039]

I love these videos man

[@TheCaptainAstro]

“Would the Lion upon waking up from his slumber be the counter to guilliman?”

[@tauras3108]

The best countermeasure is the theoretical in regards to what would happen if he turned against the imperium .

[@Meuduso1]

The Custodes distrust any Astartes, first founding chapters and Primaris included. I'd argue that this extends to any Primarch. Now will they, or rather the Captain-General, like and trust some Primarch more than others, for sure and I can very well see thta Guilliman is generally in synch with them. Unless there's fuckery, be it by Chaos or Imperial sources, I couldn't see a single scenario where the Custodes would actually end up fighting Guilliman because the latter perfectly knows what would be over the line with the Custodes and what that'd bring with it, so unless there's literally no way, Guilliman won't make any move that is sure to make the Custodes mad at him because everyone involved knows that if it comes down to it the Custodes wouldn't hesitate

[@dannyackroyd8941]

Great point Rho 👍

[@hankkaufman1900]

Gulliman needs one of his brothers to return

[@lukecanavanreid250]

A civil war custodes = ultramarine would be amazing done right imagine the heros

[@clementbianchini8651]

Remind me of your topic about the Terminus Decree, maybe at some point Guilliman will decide that the Emperor have to be release from his corpse for the survival of mankind, in such a situation the Custodes would be against him.

[@BillBrasky5351]

Hmmmm, if only there was someone, a Primarch perhaps, who could counter Guilliman... But where Agree overall, but not that he has a point, The high lords of Terra have failed so miserably for so long I'm pretty much fine Guilliman doing anything he has too do. I think capturing Guilliman would be the objective if he does go too far. Custodes, sisters, and Grey Knights could subdue him.

[@ditmarvanbelle1061]

...someone like Lorgar?

[@timothylyons5686]

It was Preturabo leaving the assault on terra early that won the battle for the loyalists. Dorn's fabled walls were broken by the lron warriors.

[@wellhungindung]

Didn't the emperor speak to the head of the sisters of battle? I'm sure I've read he occasionally communicates with others too.

[@Elldallan]

Could the 10,000 stop Guilliman? Depends entirely on what support Guilliman brings, I doubt that they could stand all alone in a new siege of terra. But then neither the primarchs nor the Custodes are immune to the influence of the ruinous powers, they can be corrupted too given enough time and effort.

[@biome856]

Custodes are about as close to incorruptable as they come. Drach'neyn, the daemonic reflection of mankind's first murder in cold blood, would need time on the scale of the death of stars to corrupt one. Drach'nyen is powerful enough to be an independent chaos entity not bound to any one god, meaning that any normal daemon basically has no chance at all.

[@walterTbaggins]

Bearing in mind that the Emperor can apparently possess Guilliman I can't imagine Bones would let Guilliman and the Custodes come to blows. Would be like losing absolutely everything except 2 Fabergé eggs then smashing them together

[@losmiercoles]

Isn't there a scene during the siege of terra where a custodes tells Dorn "I only follow the commands of one man. You call him father" to the face? To the custodes, there's only one level of authority above and none equal to them.

[@SoACJester]

Constantin Valdor and Dorn had some exchanging of words.

[@mattp2557]

To be fair valdor looks like he was maybe emps first go at making a warrior close to primarc lvl / maybe proto primarc

[@licensed_beheader]

@@mattp2557 nope pretty sure there is a proto primarch called the angel ( not sanguinius) who came before . He was way way stronger than the primarchs but mentally unstable, he single handedly exterminatused an entire planet in a day coz they were not worthy of the emperor's love and was responsible for beating a powerful daemon prince tasked by the chaos gods to terrorize the emperor's plans and had been running amok causing havoc everywhere.

[@mattp2557]

@@licensed_beheader yea it's a sorry story with the angel but I'm talking about the fact he's nearly on the same lvl as some of the primachs makes me think he might be before or after angel was created

[@licensed_beheader]

@@mattp2557 Hes on the same level in some ways he can beat a number of them . The emperor also had great plans for him as we saw after the heresy . The emperor even gave him one of the twin spears and said it was supposed to nerf him as by the words of the emperor " killing has been made too easy for you this should keep you in check ." After handing him the spear .

[@malekiththeeternityking5433]

Man you make one of these bids every week. No the Custodes won't stop Guilliman Trajan knows that Guilliman spoke to the Emperor and Valdor is coming back.

[@Blast_S_rank_1]

Finally someone who think just like me. I think this man secretly hate Guilliman or something like that lol.

[@colinbielat8558]

Honestly the custodes can never go against Guilliman because the moment they do, every single astartes will flock to Guillimans side, even the ones from other generic lines as it will be an existential threat to all the astartes as a whole. To try to kill the last loyal primarch, the last son of the emperor you would see a mass revolt of all astartes throughout the galaxy and the custodes will be ground down by sheer numbers.

[@Matihood1]

@@Blast_S_rank_1 Except Rho is a big primarch lover. He's just making "what if" videos, contemplating the possibilities. In truth, nobody knows where the lore is going to go right now so...

[@Blast_S_rank_1]

@@Matihood1 primarch lover is not = guilliman lover

[@Blast_S_rank_1]

@@Matihood1 hes what if is always guilliman been heretic or being betrayed

[@mn46842]

I think a discussion should be made for the primarchs sons, Logan and Dante would be two big counters to guilliman if he got too ambitious

[@SourBogBubble]

If there was ever an issue they could in fact. Demand Gulliman speak to them infront of the Emperor and get straight answers.

[@animemanXLK]

Considering Guilliman's being framed as the central character of 40k him trying to out right start a second Horus Heresy seems unlikely. More likely he's trying to make the Imperium realise that alliances with xenos like the Aeldari Tau and in extreme desperation perhaps even the Necrons or Orks can have more benefits than dangers especially when facing a foe as a nihilistic as the forces of chaos and the endless fleets of Tyranids. I think his view would only possibly conflict with the Imperium if/when the Fulgrim clone is bought back into play since Roboute would instantly recognise this was his true brother effectively purged of chaos corruption and one who believes his legion can be redeemed and restored to their former glory. And if he was right that might mean all the traitor primarchs can one day be saved. Magnus restored Angron no longer afflicted by the butcher nails free to be the healer he was meant to be. the possibilities would be pretty much limitless.

[@bramschoenmakers5071]

it will never happen. their is a reason they call it in: in the Grim darknesd of the 40k universe.

[@animemanXLK]

@@bramschoenmakers5071 Yeah probably not but a few years back people would've said the same about Roboute coming back.

[@coldgarden_]

He needs naysayers to keep him from running off and getting killed until some off his other brothers can join him.

[@macshadow1150]

The funniest thing? Guiliman WANT to find his brothers, because he doesnt want to rule alone. He wouldn't mind give control over Crusade to the, for example, Lion so he could pay more attention to other things.

[@ryansauchuk7290]

With these Legions and control of the high Lords Guilliman might try and take over the Imperium! Oh right he already has!

[@bobakrabii6220]

I they won’t do anything against him unless the emperor says so. Unless he says so, either with visions or however he does, they won’t. They are incapable of defying the emperor. But the minute he says otherwise, G man is fubared

[@andrew1230981]

Also plot twist Guilliman will turn to chaos and one of the traitors will come back into the fold.

[@ArkanisLupus]

The Lion awakening should be a pretty good counterl

[@QenaitheCustodianGuard]

As valoris himself pointed out, the custodes are not part of the imperium. The space marines and the primarch were created to protect the imperium, the custodes was not. They where made to guard the Emperor and the palace.

[@D4nger_CLO5E]

The Golden Boys are beast and all...do they have the Emperor's gene-seed though? We are the Hammer!

[@eichler721]

The Custodes have reason to not trust Guilliman as he wasn't there at Terra to defend the Emperor, he was busy building Imperium Secundus. The Custodes of have trust of 3 Primarch's as far as I can see and that's Sanguinius, the Lion, and Dorn. Khan is close to trusted as well with his performance on Terra and coming to help the Imperium. The rest they don't think are traitors but they they are suspicious of them and their motives.

[@eichler721]

@theredditexperience1 if the Imperium Secundus wad never made he might have found his way there with visions not being drawn by the Pharos beacon.

[@eichler721]

@theredditexperience1 yes ignore his precognition and insight to the future. You obviously don't think as he was the one who knew to go to the Temple that is where they figured the way through the storm. Also if no Imperium Secundus then that's years of time the traitor forces don't have to blockade the ruin storm like they did in cannon. You obviously don't think at all.

[@DavidOlsen69]

a weekend video? Sweet

[@dakotalange2858]

I would argue the sisters of silence are just as if not more loyal than the custodians as they were fighting for the imperium while the custodians stayed in the imperial palace

[@Kat1kafka]

Do the Custodes really have those robot lion mounts?

[@MrJara1018]

they would be Golden Robot lion mounts …..

[@timothylyons5686]

The Emperor hasn't spoken to anyone since his internment on the Golden Throne?? What about Jaq Draco?? Or has that been ret-conned out of Warhammer 40K lore. I still have the book, does that mean l am to expect a visit from the lnquision for heresy??

[@grandtheftaudio6386]

He spoke to Guilliman after Guilliman was awakened and returned to Tera.

[@JesusLopez-et1uv]

I imagine valorus giving the order 66 to custodes targeting gilliman

[@przemysek2511]

AS much as i love golden bois there biggest and only flaw is they are for the emperor and ONLY for him sad to say but my take on them is they dont give a damn about humanity as much as emperor would told them to do, point being after 10k sitting on their asses they are bit out of touch with the goings in the imperium as for the praimarchs there were MADE to take on the galaxy and that includes the humanity in it. On the other hand as much as i dontt agree with being wary of Guli i 100% see where they are coming from as the old saying gose "fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me". ps keep up the great work

[@Pandolfan]

I know it's likely not canon anymore. But do you think emps came to the conclusion that you need more than one primarch to keep as a check for the others after his experiences with his first son the original angel. Again yes I know the story has likely been forgotten about maybe even retconned out of exsistance but I can't help but love the story of the failure of primarch 0.

[@NueThunderKing]

Wat, the hell are you talking about? Never heard of a Primarch 0 and I kinda know some obscure shit like the Sensei or Ordo Chronos

[@wumpusmcgrumpusesquire6965]

@@NueThunderKing kzbin.info/www/bejne/d5K4qWiOqr14jrM

[@Pandolfan]

​@@NueThunderKing The angel or The weapon was a being created by the emperor during the Unification wars to aid him in cleansing the world of the taint of chaos and was in essence a powerful living weapon. A human with black wings and a glowing halo of psychic energy. It sadly eventually went insane and became a threat to humanity itself forcing the emperor to have to dispose of them. He however could not kill it for some reason or another and instead entombed it in a coffin luring them in with demon flesh it was later found released and resealed by the inquisition on Karis Cephalon. Source: Inquisitor: Conspiracies - Death of an Angel by Andy Hall, Graham McNeill and Gav Thorpe. 2003 I remember first finding out about it in a 40k theories video. The Precursor Of The Primarchs - 40k Theories

[@Kat1kafka]

I'm still waiting for a Custodes cgi video

[@marshaledrek71]

Quite simply ... yes.

[@Knight-chaplainashriel]

Then by this theory the Lion needs to be awakened to be the balance against Rowboat.

[@SirBlade666]

If it became a war between them the Custodes would eventually lose. While they might be better then Astartes, they also take much more time and resources to create. Also when it comes to chose between the son of a god and the bodyguard of a god, most people would side with the son. So Guilliman would probably have the support of the Navy. Blowing up Custodes spaceships is probably one of the better ways to take out at lot of them at once. Who would side with the Custodes? The Inquisition? Mars? The Assassins'? The Church? None seem very likely.

[@SirBlade666]

@@ReconCrusader I doubt most of humanity is even aware of the Custodes, but they all know the 9 Primarchs and the Angels of Death. And to compare it to our world: who would the faithful support in a fight between the Swiss Guard and Jesus? Also, to win the Custodes need to take out Guilliman. All he has to do to win is keep them all near the Emperor. He doesn't need to come to earth to be the Lord Regent.

[@SirBlade666]

@@ReconCrusader On the Throne World, sure, most people will know about them. The op people in Imperial organizations will know about them. But the average citizen? If you're lucky they're mentioned as a footnote in a sermon. Whereas the Primarch will have whole books written about them, especially Sanquinius and Guilliman.

[@Dreadbringer]

G just coudnt Best the Custodes.

[@revolverDOOMGUY]

Well, you know, the custodes COULD just wake up Lion El Jhonson... I guess he would be a nice counter balance for Guilliman and since he is a really good hunter/fighter he would also be capable of killing some high tier enemies that aare now causing a lot of troubles. Like Fulgrim, Mortarion or Magnus.

[@mcnuggets2825]

Idk if they would we as the readers know the Lion was 100% loyal but in lore he is the most questionable one out of all the loyalist primarchs. The custodies might know the truth since they seem to have a lot more knowledge then anyone else regarding the specific events of the heresy tho.

[@Chrivs]

Dont know if they could stop him. Because most of the "Space Marines" are loyal to him And 99% sure on all the Primaris too Anyway if it came to a show down we all know that the Imperium of Man would be doom for sure But I do think that Guilliman like that the there are ppl who do Question him and Speak So I think its a good thing... Anyway without Guilliman the Imperium would be even more fuck end that it was just after the great rift But that's just my opinion ^^

[@itshawx4697]

I really don't understand how could Guilliman go "too far"? How, aside from partying up with the Eldari, has Guilliman gotten...suspicious? In the eyes of the Custodes? Sure he is leading legions now but...I mean he has not just absorbed them. They are separate entities still I dunno this suspicion aside from the eldari thing is really out of place to me

[@jubairahmed9833]

The Custodes are Jealous cus the Emperor never ever spoke to any of them but spoke to G.

[@TechnoCheezit]

They could try

[@benhur933]

I think the inquisition would try something against guilliman before the custodes will

[@UDAWAPBADDY]

The Emperor is dead in all but name, he‘s just a big lighthouse now so Guilliman has inherited the imperium and the custodes

[@chickenmonger123]

Custodes are not for what Primarchs are for. Primarchs are distillations of aspects of the Emperor. Meant to exemplify human virtues, and they hoped the Primarchs would do more than fight wars for Conquest and Defense. But elevate Mankind as a whole on the level of Ethos and Pathos, make Man more able to take and hold this galaxy for the good of Mankind. However. It’s why Space Marines are pulled from the stock of humankind. And why they make no children. Because they aren’t rulers as much as Champions. They are the elevated flesh for what ought to be the elevated souls and wills of mankind. I think the Custodes will prevent Guilliman from destroying the Empire in arrogance or nihilism. They will preserve the Throne World. I think they are by design contemptuous of anything weak or unstable. Of anything like Human frailty, Human doubt, or Human care. They serve the Emperor. Are made to serve more than any others as remote pure near angelic statues that merely resemble Humans. They will not easily destroy Guilliman. And Guilliman wouldn’t let them destroy him. He individually is more capable than any of them. But he IS in many ways Human in a way they will never be. So that’s it. If it comes to battle, whomever knows the other better will win. And if it comes to battle, it will be because the Custodes pose an imminent threat to Mankind due to their utterly alien presence, or they think Guilliman is weak, or his thoughts pose a risk to their dictate on the Emperors behalf.

[@Vikeroni]

I though there Are custodes the emperor whispers to and They all say the emperor order gulliman to take the custodies out to the galaxy

[@fleur3674]

The thing here is. The custodes aren't really the best suited to rule or govern humanity. Even when the primarchs weren't there for 10,000 years. They didn't really change anything. Instead the emperium rotted from within. They are merely the bodyguards of the emperor. That's it.

[@genghiscarnage4015]

Line the Custodes up. One by one, Guilliman would chin them from the Himalayas all the way to the Andes. "That'll learn ya" will be the last thing each of the Custard Lords would hear as they embarked upon their ballistic trajectories.

[@kingkang8703]

What if big g found out that emperor himself is corrupted by chaos and he needs to kill his father to end the madness? Would custodies stop him?

[@TrebleAmp]

If it comes down to it.. Valdor would take guilliman! :D

[@CoolCraftCool]

Its such a wierd situation who would he betray he is running everything. He could only betray himself to Chaos and having seen the mess that Fulgrim, Morty and Mags are I doubt he wants that! But assuming he did leave the path we would see Grey Knights, Space Wolves and the Talons of the Emperor all lanuch attacks against him almost strait away!

[@jiffah]

...so you have been worned! Hyped!

[@Furzkampfbomber]

Yeah, yeah, you have been warned. With a general statement in the sense of 'we talk about things you might not like to hear' and then you lead us into a rabbit hole of a darkness and depth no one could even imagine. You don't happen to be the Emperor? :D

[@lordpfeiffer8490]

To be fair guillmen would take out the custodians. The 10,000 would trade 1 for 3 space marines guillmen and his chapter would be around 100 to 300k with all the decendent chapters plus the loyal primaries marines to guillmen

[@mcnuggets2825]

If you count all successors he’d have around 660,000 space marines. Before his return 2/3 of all space marines could trace their origins to the ultramarines.

[@jrsrfcemc2756]

En masse, side by side I think each custode would cut a swathe through the opposition and I'd it came to ranged/tech war the custodes have the best and no doubt, they would have allies

[@lordpfeiffer8490]

@@jrsrfcemc2756 in lore each custody trades for 3 to 10 space marines. It'd just a numbers game. As well custodys don't do mass coordination as good as space marines. Custodys tend to fight like a single wonderful warrior. Which means numbers will overcome them and the space marines coordination will overwhelm them

[@BloodyArchangelus]

@@lordpfeiffer8490 now we look into the lore. 10 marines are nothing for lore. so custodes are useless. But. if we look deeply what Custodes are and what power they wield. 1 custodes for chapter. Without bike. thats fair numbers.

[@lordpfeiffer8490]

@@BloodyArchangelus the custodys in lore admit they can on average take out a squad of space marines. As they fight as individuals and have a hard time fighting as a unit and don't like fighting together.

[@brownehawk7744]

I feel its somewhat traitorous of the Custodes to be on guard against Guilliman. That is the Emperors son. The custodes are servants. Their loyalty should be willingly given to the Emperors loyal son. Also if they know the truth on Secondus, then they should be able to grasp the concept of how it got to that point. They need to stop being ignorant.

[@licensed_beheader]

Being the emperors son doesn't mean shit to the custodes in terms of who to trust with the emperor's safety and it shouldn't as it was the Emperor's sons that nearly killed him . Horus was the emperor's loyal son until out of nowhere he was his bitterest foe , also the custodes weren't really big fans of the primarch project noting that the primarchs were an unpredictable gamble but the emperor assured them it would all go well (whoopsie). Its their job to assess potential threats to the emperor aka everyone and everything and seeing it was a primarch that laid him low I understand their guard and lowkey spite against them but they really shouldn't overstep the emperor's plans and will .

[@Dreadbringer]

The Custodes don't see G as Emperors son, just a favored tool coming back, and they are right to be misteustfull after half his sons went traitor.