Was the Killing Joke That Bad?

It's gone from the most hyped to the most hated, but did the Killing Joke really offend as much as people say?
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[@ChannelAwesome]

So, what does everyone think about The Killing Joke? Good? Bad? Ok? Also, check out our store to grab some of our DVDs/signed autographed prints - theawesomestore.com

[@thexdatabase]

i think that 1st part is parallel to the killing joke on a smaller scale. It gives Batgirl her own Joker type character to deal aka a psychopath obsessed with her

[@taylorpoirier1765]

Channel Awesome I found it weird, it wasn't bad, it wasn't good, it was just strange

[@thexdatabase]

Also, Batman kinda got raped by Batgirl. #batrape

[@swiftswalow]

it wasn't bad, it was pretty good once the killing joke happened and i can and will ignore the first third.... BUT! this is the killing joke: "pretty good" is not enough, and a lot of Alan Moore dialogue was re-shaped or cut, which pissed me off, they said they would expand on the killing joke, but they never did, they made the dialogue a bit shorter and added 30 min of garbage that have nothing to do with the killing joke. Plus a lot of the dialogue they cut i found unforgivable, when joker says "everything anyone ever valued or struggled for is monstrous." in the comic was "everything anyone valued or struggled for is a monstrous DEMENTED GAG", this seems a nitpick, but when you think about it, it adds a lot: it shows that the joker sees life as a mere cruel joke instead of a cruel place as the movie dialogue could be: that's why they follow it with "why can't you see the funny side? why aren't you laughing?" because joker is referring to laughing at the cruel joke that is life! that's how he sees the world. If they are going to make this adaptation so faithful they have to be 100% faithful in the dialogue, because is the best part of the book: go all the way, instead of an adaptation make "the killing joke: animated format", and make a movie that is not really an adaptation but more like a "change of the media". Either make it your own thing or go all the way with the source material, this is between the lines of "too faithful" and "not faithful enough", and that is not a good line, because is the line that is not " a good rendition that we love" and "it's own original thing"... it is somewhat of a mess.

[@Timberwolf410]

While I agree on that front, I would have liked to see more character development for her and for the first part to connect more fluidly to the next part. Maybe Paris Franz could have been hired by the Joker as a distraction for Batman and he slowly becomes obsessed with Batgirl in the process?

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

As one critic said, "There are certain things that a hero just shouldn't do, and 'your best friend's daughter' is at the top of that list."

[@John-Stark]

Why in the holy hell this comment isn't at the top?

[@EmptyAltruism]

I never really saw gordon and batman being best friends. How could they be? Gordon only knows one aspect of batman, and batman only interacts with one aspect of gordon, the law enforcement aspect of his personality. I mean, its not like they invite each other over for Thanksgiving dinner or anything. Also, i could be misremembering but doesnt gordon kinda dislike bruce wayne in some stories?

[@wereflipper]

EmptyAltruism Batman, not Bruce Wayne you can spend your whole life with someone and still not actually know them completely. Batman and Gordon share a code that puts them in danger to help the weak and innocent, one that often turns Gordon against his own department, this should have stopped Batman maybe not Bruce but definitely Batman.

[@PatheticApathetic]

EmptyAltruism actually Gordon does know that Batman is Bruce Wayne in the comics. He's a good cop. He figured it out on his own and kept it a secret, even from Batman

[@EmptyAltruism]

Fair enough. I meant gordon kind of thought bruce was a dick before he knew who he really was, but i am far from equipped to comment with any certainty on comic book lore. I only have a passing knowledge of these things. Still, im not sure that even if they were "best friends" (if that is in fact the case) that the situation would be entirely innapropriate

[@jordangan3246]

Fun Fact: Alan Moore himself has said that he regretted paralysing Barbara Gordon and even then, the comic itself was intended to just be a one-shot. Also, this is one of his least favourite comics that he’s worked on.

[@BrickIntyre]

I remember a statement from him where he even said something to the effect of, 'if I could un-write "The Killing Joke' I would." I may be alone on this, but I never liked the book.

[@PsychicWars]

Alan Moore is the kind of guy who constantly criticizes his own work and can't admit that there was ever any artistic value to it, you shouldn't take him TOO seriously.

[@tomnorton4277]

@@PsychicWars Alan Moore is a good writer but he's also a grumpy old arsehole. Just judge him by his art, not his personality because I'm sure he's an absolute nightmare in real life.

[@Wortwort-Spooderbat]

At least she's been cured to where she's a badass batgirl again.

[@PsychicWars]

@@Wortwort-Spooderbat She's always been badass, even when she was in a wheelchair she was doing tech solutions for the Suicide Squad and serving as mission control for the Birds of Prey. If anything paralyzing her was what allowed Babs to truly shine as a character.

[@StormsongK]

Joker's song sequence was ABSOLUTELY in the original. It was staged a little differently in the movie, and we saw it more from other points of view, but it was there.

[@winstonsmith6101]

Yeah not sure how he missed that.

[@archercole5271]

Maybe that will be in the possible Top 11 Nostalgia Critic F-Ups Part 4

[@mariadocarmosobreira8323]

NC doesn't really read comics.

[@NireFuster]

"In the comic it just cuts to a flashback" This is one of my biggest gripes with the Killing Joke movie, in the comics it doesn't JUST cut to a flashback, every image of the Joker after AND before the flashbacks mimics the exact moment the flashback begins and ends, in the movie it does JUST cut to a flashback, and with a shitty filter too

[@Novasky2007]

Its clear in the comic that Jokers mind is so splintered it literally is multiple choice to him.

[@VSaber365]

So, in other words, the Killing Joke movie isn't as good as we had all hoped, BUT it's not *THE* worst movie in the world. Got it.

[@kimyonasqd8690]

the worst movie in the world would have to go to norm of the north

[@charlessmith299]

Garbage pail kids

[@the_night_club]

Oh buddy, sit down while I tell you about the legend of Freddy Got Fingered.

[@baphomet-kun]

wolfguy23 Yeah, I fucking hate it when the response the nostalgia critic gives us can be replied with "Yeah no shit Sherlock"

[@cherrygrabber7172]

If every review you see is like, “It’s good.” or, “It’s bad.” And nothing else explaining that. Then why bother watching an analysis about why this certain movie is (blank) in the first place? It’s more of a gradient, if you will. Between perfect to downright horrible, or even okay to adequate. The meat between these short statements is the most valuable when it comes to bringing attention to the subject of discussion. Just sounded very disrespectful from you towards how disinterested you seemed to be with the video itself.

[@ClassicLuigiFan]

I'm just laughing that THIS got an R whereas their adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns (which included Joker's massacre at the carnival and him getting stabbed in the eye with a batarang and keeping it there for the remainder of the scene) got a PG-13.

[@Corthmic]

Don't forget that during that scene he also got his neck half snapped by Batman and then broke it himself cackling like a fucking madman.

[@Caidezes]

The rating for this was just for attention, since Deadpool riled everyone up by being rated R. What better way to get people to look at your film than to say it's an R-rated adaptation of one of the most famous Batman stories?

[@vivir339]

ClassicLuigiFan True. I think I heard one of the filmmakers for Killing Joke say that they still could've gotten a PG-13, even if they were completely faithful to the comic. But, people demanded an R rating, which apparently makes it automatically better.

[@slashandbones13]

I read that the scene that looks, and in this version shows a hooker saying that she thinks "The Joker got a new girl", like rape and the big scene with Jim Gordon got the R

[@TheSefirosu200x]

ClassicLuigiFan Justice League Dark deserved the R way more than this, though I loved this movie.

[@youngsmitty347]

Honestly, they could've used the first act of the story to establish how the Joker lost to Batman with Batgirl's help, and how the encounter made Batgirl hang up her cowl after the psychopath nearly killed her in the encounter.

[@AbStar_xx]

Logan Smith This needs to happen

[@berbersista]

Logan Smith or have Barbara Gordon the librarian research the Jokers real identity which would fit the theme of the story. Her research that is unwanted by Batman and has them fight and her then giving up the cowl. She gets very close to finding out who the Joker really is and then gets shot by him. Did he shoot her because she got too close or did he shoot her because he wanted to mess up Jim Gordon?

[@KeybladeMasterAndy]

Logan Smith Yeah. Honestly, if you have a story about Joker, do a first act with Joker. Hell, even incorporate Barbara more into the main story. This could have been so much more consistent.

[@kyletowers9662]

HOLY SHIT THAT IS A 110% IMPROVEMENT!

[@koendiepen7400]

It could have been so simple. Jokers gone Batman and Batgirl search for him Batman and Batgirls get distracted by other crime ( action scene) They give up she goes home rest of the story happens. Longer movie changed to make batgirl importent and done.

[@drakocarrion]

My biggest problem with the animated Killing Joke adaptation aside from the pointless batgirl story at the start was the shoehorned in lines that imply The Joker raped Barbara Gordon after paralysing her. They weren't in the graphic novel. & the writer, Alan Moore, categorically stated that she wasn't raped.

[@thecrazyentity6879]

Although it was implied it was meant as a bigger setup of him stageing the absolute horror of it like a artist Making the final stroke of the painting although Hamil is trying his best it comes off as almost too creepy

[@mariadocarmosobreira8323]

Besides, I can't see any sexual inclinations in Joker whatsoever. I can't imagine him raping any woman, because I don't think he'd ever be interested in that. And yes, you said it. The problem with the Batgirl romance shit is not that it's perverted or any other BS people are saying, but that it's pointless and add nothing to the story, while totally detracting from its main point, the Batman/Joker conflict and how they're so very much the same.

[@mikehall7189]

Sexualising the joker is like having a preening Hollywood actor play him as a gangsta. Oh wait.......

[@yeldarb141983]

@@thecrazyentity6879 There's actually been some hints both in the comic itself, and in Interviews with the artists that while Barbara wasn't raped, Jim Gordon may have been, that the circus midgets holding him down were actually sexually assaulting him while he was forced to look at his naked daughter possibly bleeding to death. It goes without saying that this is a really screwed up idea, but remember the whole idea here is the Joker is trying to break Jim Gordon and turn him into a deranged maniac like himself, proving to batman that all it takes to turn even the most upright and moral of people into someone like him or batman is one bad day. [spoilers] This adds new dimension of Jim Gordon's being able to overcome the Joker's torture and have the will to stand up for what's right, demanding batman bring Joker in alive and as unharmed as possible. I won't go into why I think people focused on Barbara and ignored Jim Gordon's abuse in this film AND the comic no less, but the short version is survival of the species necessitates a certain amount of unfairness.

[@yeldarb141983]

@@mariadocarmosobreira8323 There have been some indications in the comics that Joker's obsession with Batman isn't exactly platonic, and he HAS has a few romantic relationships in the past, both while sane and insane, but I think a lot of people see him stripping Barbara naked and assume he must be planning to do something sexual, as that's how sexual stuff is usually implied in film or other media. Obviously, the focus is on breaking Jim (see my previous post in this same comment thread for what I think is really going on), but most people have trouble seeing past a woman being in harm's way. So much so, that a lot of them miss what's happening to Jim Gordon at the same time.

[@AndresBoissiere]

Surprised he didn't talk about the really bland color palette in contrast to the comic. The colors were so vibrant yet uncanny, but the animation just went with the bland grey scale from modern DC movies; had it gone with the style of the 90's show I think it would've helped out much more

[@mabusestestament]

Agreed, I was thinking the same thing. But I remeber the recolored version of the comic was way more bland than the original version.

[@EpicMickey777]

Boa's Second Channel they based the color scheme off the reduct version of the comic you see nowadays.

[@AndresBoissiere]

I own the reduct version, the colors are more muted in comparison to the orginal, but they still weren't so bland as the movie. It's like it's afraid of using a hard black and instead uses shades of brown that don't really contrast well with anything

[@EpicMickey777]

Boa's Second Channel what shades of brown? The only time it's really like that is when the flashbacks of The Joker's past come into play.

[@nickkiller-0710]

The worst thing about the movie is that the comic had that crazy coloring while the movie was just brown and gray

[@FangX39]

They based the color on the deluxe version of the comic, not the original.

[@nickkiller-0710]

yeah, I know, however I have to say that making an entire movie with the old color scheme would be pretty hard, but it can be possible.

[@ohamatchhams]

I think he only studio that able to do vibrant and intense colouring so far is an anime studio called "Madhouse", they definitely suitable for producing dark and gritty adaptation with intense animations and colours , but they got a lot of projects with Marvel comics few years ago lol

[@JustinCage56]

FangX39 Even the deluxe edition of the comic didn't look as shit as it did in the movie

[@l1fe1ssh0rt]

That's dc for you. Just look at man of steel

[@canadmexi]

"Was the gay best friend you're favorite character in The Killing Joke?" "No, the end credits were my favorite character in The Killing Joke."

[@drakocarrion]

Um, the song sequence is definitely in the graphic novel.

[@dappunk1]

Came to the comments just for this

[@kevindavis3234]

Yup. I was going to say the same.

[@Mil89GR]

Thank you! I wanted to comment that!

[@dbplaypen]

Ditto. And more obvious than some of those other issues. How did he miss...eh, nm

[@KingGhidorah5464]

Nostalgia critic continues to not do his research

[@manuelaalvarez5672]

Is no one gonna talk about how Batgirl's gay BFF looks exactly like Draco Malfoy from Harry Potter? No? I'm the only one? Okay then...

[@GodSlayingBunny]

Manuela Alvarez let's not talk about that too much fangirls...

[@Cyprienroche]

To me, the gay BFF looked nothing like Tom Felton (why do I still remember his name?), Draco has pale skin, white hair and a different haircut in almost every movie. I guess the gay BFF's haircut kinda looks like the one in the fourth film, but his hair and skin colors are wrong. Weird how so many people saw Malfoy there, I guess I'm to odd one here...

[@aceofclubs002]

Kevin Conroy and Mark Hammil should have just done an audio book of the original novel, we all know thats all we really wanted.

[@mrbrown38]

Wasted their Mark Hamill card.

[@drcrocreviews]

It's sad really

[@hoodedjustice9447]

Matt B this comment made me cry

[@painoftheheart12]

Not as bad as Starwars 8

[@thewarriorrlsh]

@@painoftheheart12 truuuuu

[@TheBlackLodger]

He was excellent as usual in the movie, but the movie could’ve been better.

[@living8605]

I think the prologue part would've worked if the writers had polished it up a bit. From what I've heard, the writers basically wanted to show Batgirl and her "Joker" with Paris Franz (really? Paris Franz?) and show something that resembled Batman/Joker. Of course it was executed horribly, but the idea on paper actually sounded good if the creators weren't trying so hard to make it "R-Rated" with all the overly-sexual shit with Batman, Batgirl, and Paris. Here's a rough idea on how it could've worked. Batgirl finds out about a new criminal in town, a disturbed individual who had "one bad day." Maybe this individual hurts people, not like the Joker, but the guy/girl is dangerous, and they've killed people. Maybe Batgirl tries reasoning with the person, but Batman thinks its a lost cause. Things get worse when the disturbed person gets obsessed with Batgirl, and it gets topped off when they "cross the line." Batgirl gives up on the person, almost killing them in a fight, but Batman stops her, which surprises Batgirl. Batman asserts the "no killing" rule but Batgirl explains what the disturbed person had done asks Batman "how far is too far?" which would be foreshadowing the inevitable events of the Killing Joke. Basically what I'm trying to get at is the prologue was supposed to be a "mirror" to the events of the Killing Joke. Batgirl could've had a bigger role in the way that she was in a situation where someone goes to far, but is stopped by her mentor. But then her mentor shows hypocrisy in how he hasn't dealt with the Joker properly, and by consequence, she's paralyzed. So maybe at the ends where we see her become Oracle there's a dark undertone to it, like she thinks to herself "Batman was wrong, I should've killed them." Idk I know that idea wouldn't be the best way to fix it but I think there was some story potential to show how the Killing Joke affected Barbara Gordon in a very philosophical light, but instead Batman goes after the Joker because he boned Batgirl and Batgirl got shot.

[@loganchase4371]

That does sound pretty great. I just also wish they didn't have Batsex because I think that particular pairing is just disgusting.

[@jophusain]

Knowledge Wow. That’s a really great idea man. Good job

[@aros0018]

One idea I had comes from the Batgirl: Year One comic, where Firefly is one of the first supervillains Batgirl ever fought and he does become somewhat obsessed with her. He's a psychotic killer and a pyromaniac and with a few tweaks could have easily worked as Batgirl's "Joker". He's killed tons of people solely out of his love and fascination of fire and how Batgirl feels she she should deal with him could work as a parallel between Batman and Joker, while being a more memorable villain than Paris Franz and without objectifying Barbra. That's sadly the biggest failing of the first third of the movie. The creators understood that the original comic was seen as a little sexist for bringing Barbra into the story just to be shot, crippled, and stripped to torment another character, thus it tried to have her more involved in the story. Unfortunately, in their attempt to make the story less sexist they ended up making it more sexist.

[@yeldarb141983]

epilogue about her becoming oracle would have been more powerful, honestly...

[@lukestacey9018]

It was good until #1 she banged the batman #2 the entire first part was irrelevant #3 the entire movie felt like a patchwork of an animation

[@RRRRRRRRR33]

I highly doubt people would bitch and whine about the animation quality if this movie featured only the last 25 minutes, the actual killing joke and nothing more. Let's pretend every DC animation don't have the same bland style. Did you watch year 1? It's same damn thing, Dark Knight Returns as well, etc.. It's their style, their limited budget. But nobody complained because those 2 stories were well adapted, it is that simple.

[@SuperSymbiote1]

If you were Batman, why not ;)

[@dboymax1]

The whole thing was Bruce Timms fan crushing the Batman/Batgirl thing from what I hear from some.He did the same with TAS, especially with the comic TBH I am not a fan of Timms and think it might have worked better if someone else from DC handled it...

[@keelanbarron928]

So...it was never good then?

[@trixtrax]

I have an important test tomorrow.. meh nostalgia critic is more important

[@biotin5318]

Importanter*

[@aaronhinton3446]

TrixTrax lol u from England, cos I'm doing my gcses tomorrow too😂

[@twodudes9363]

you are right

[@trixtrax]

Aaron Hinton yeah I'm from England! Hard times 😂

[@oopy9784]

Maths paper 1?

[@kaidoruk1904]

Batman under the red hood was better! Who's with me!?

[@hollowman7168]

The Nerd Show Yeah and water is wet!!! whos with me

[@michaeldorsey9231]

Yeah, and chocolate is the symbol of love, who's with me?

[@venomw6823]

HOLLOW MAN Yeah and birds go tweet who's with me

[@LiamCameron77]

The Nerd Show Yeah,and Nostalgia Critic is awsome! Who's with me?

[@ikmnification5737]

Yeah, and Jason Todd is under that red hood, who's with me?

[@thecarnivoreemperor7365]

You know what was missing in this movie The Bat Credit Card.

[@bosskbennjpw]

8:44

[@noahthompson2912]

We don't say that word around these channel

[@OODLESMCBOODELS]

Please keep that sentence to another channel but not “this” one

[@sonofjafarreturns]

NO!!

[@pwolfie8603]

Nah where the bat nipples

[@MrBean8100]

Animation should have been much, much better. The comic art was incredible, the animation of the movie however was downright bad.

[@Kaefer1973]

+Galahad It doesn't really mix, you'd need a budget far above even the most expensive Disney animations ever made to combine the art style and quality of the comic with fluid animations, without making it look cheap and creepy. It'd probably been better to do something truly unique.

[@pastmistakes524]

Galahad it's not bad, like I said in a different comment, there is no such thing as bad animation or art, unless it fails to do what it tries to do. So that being said, the animation is actually pretty good, but it looks like the animator had less freedom because they really wanted it to look like the killing joke, and because of that, the animator is more limited. And it would also be nearly impossible to get the amount of detail from the comic in every frame and still have it move smoothly, so to be honest, in my opinion, the animation does its job "kinda good" but it doesn't feel like the animator had that much freedom to do this his/her own way.

[@alejandrogangotena9033]

wasnt bad, its just so extremely far away from the quality of the comic.

[@ianr.navahuber2195]

the movie could have started with the death of jason todd (his funeral), and harley quin trying to contact a member of the batfamily (harley might have been horrorifed of what joker could do to a child). contacting batgirl. then she goes in a rampage trying to get any piece of data she can of the joker. even if she is stopping eating or sleeping. batman stops her, and makes her realize she is letting him get into her skin.alfred could have pointed out how she behaced a lot like bruce usually does. and in a tragic trun when both decide to just relax even if only for 1 hour, joker comes and the parts of the killing joke start.

[@AntigonePoss]

I was thinking the Killing Joke's animation should have been more stylized probably.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

I don't know, personally, I like when the characters look like human beings and not cartoon characters, but that's just me. :)

[@303Thatoneguy]

Chris McWilliams then why watch animated movies when you could just watch real life people? Animation is crazy expensive.

[@AntigonePoss]

Didn't mean more cartoony, I meant with more of an interesting style of art, with good visuals and artistic choices that would help the plot rather than look good but bland

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

Sorry. When I hear stylized I picture like Japanimation stuff with the weird proportions and the giant eyes or something. :)

[@perfectid3317]

Exactly my thoughts watching the review and comparing the comic panels to the cartoon. The cartoon seems bland, 2-dimensional and colourless compared to the comic panels. So I had the impression the cartoon lacked visual and emotional depth. Unlike in the comic, which is very atmospheric, I cannot emotionally connect to the cartoon characters. I think it would have profited immensely from a different drawing style and art design.

[@Horrorfreak106]

Can I also mention that the animation in the film is just so bland, boring, forgettable, and just plain. The drawings in the comic are really, really good! So colorful, so detailed, so realistic and creepy! The movie however just seems to copy and paste the style of every single DC animated movie/show style of animation. A damn shame. That alone breaks it for me.

[@roarshach13]

Couldn't agree more. It "looks" like the comic in terms of set pieces and scenes. But when it comes to the actual visual style it looks nothing like it.

[@UnchainedEruption]

Horrorfreak106 On the contrary, I thought the animation was beautiful, the only good thing in this mess of a movie.

[@pastmistakes524]

To me there is no such thing as bad art or animation, unless it fails to do what it tries to do, and again the animator was trying way too hard to look like the killing joke, I feel like he should have stuck to his own style.

[@RRRRRRRRR33]

Not really a valid critic, other acclamated productions like under the red hood also had bland animation. This adaptation was just bad all around, people are just pick and chosing individual stuff to shit on. It was boring, 25 minutes of cool joker/batman voice acting, the rest was just pure shit. It's that simple, no need to overly criticise every single bit, just cut to the chase dude.

[@SA80TAGE]

The Creeper really? Killing Joke had nothing to do with Batman? Did you miss the entire start of the comic, where he marches straight into Arkham to talk to the Joker about where they're headed, one of them killing the other? Batman contemplating killing the Joker has nothing to do with Batman aye? stfu noob. He didn't go to Arkham because of some random dead bodies, the comic just opens on him arriving at Arkham to talk with Joker for no other reason than to make an effort to talk to the Joker and hopefully end their feud. Add to this the fact that Batman actually still killed people on occasion during the era it was published, and Gordon had to TELL Batman to *bring him in by the book to show we're better than him*... it could be argued that the Killing Joke was the start point for Bruces no-killing rule. And you think it's got nothing to with Batman? It appears YOU are the one who knows nothing about comics, so kindly shut the fuck up.

[@Oonagh72]

It was painful and brilliant. I agree the first third didn’t match. The killing joke part really was Oscar worthy in my opinion. Personally I never think about the first part of the movie. I always think about the end. (I’ve never read the comic).

[@BeardyGuitarCovers]

If you've never read the comic, you got pretty much everything that was on the page to the screen, except a few different lines of dialogue. It's worth checking out even having seen the movie, though. You can really see Doug's points about them restricting themselves and where they could have improved upon the source material with the comparison. As a fan of the original comic, I hated the first third. But it wasn't enough to stop me from enjoying the Killing Joke part. Personally, though, I believe that the adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns is more deserving of an Oscar than this. If you haven't see that, definitely check it out.

[@dcmarvelcomicfans9458]

@@BeardyGuitarCovers yeah

[@cartoonhigh9990]

My main problem is that this movie was pretty tame to be rated R. It's obviously not PG but I don't recall anything that was that intense. I've seen more intense PG-13 movies tbh.

[@ladian5475]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't seen it but... rape and psychological torture? That's not in the dark knight returns.

[@mistersinister2043]

Ladian Where are you guys saying there is rape and someone getting shot in the pussy?

[@SomeRandomMario]

The killing joke was "dark" for the time in which it was released. back then not many comics or movies went that far. so yes it is tamed by today's standards. does it make it a bad movie/comic because of that? objectively-no subjectively- up to you but I say no.

[@BloodylocksBathory]

... did they really just make a "that time of the month" joke? Who the hell wrote the new sequence, Frank Miller??

[@mcrancher4587]

BloodylocksBathory it was probably Zack Snyder

[@TheOriginalElkstone]

Some fuckwit, I'm pretty sure

[@geoffreysorkin5774]

COOLMCDEN 219 I'll take Tomb of Dracula, and most of his Daredevil run over Dark Knight Returns any day of the week.

[@b3rz3rk3r9]

Actually, Alan Moore wrote the original comic, but the movie was written by Brian Azzarello.

[@c.r_e.m_a.3267]

It's a villian...that's something you would expect a villain to say...stop being a little baby

[@gemminycricket7597]

And that scene where Batman approaches Batgirl on the rooftop carrying a takeaway coffee cup! What the hell was that shit?! I'm sorry, but did Bruce, clad in his Batman attire, walk into a Starbucks or something in the middle of the night, buy a coffee, and then proceed to meet her on a rooftop with it?! Or are they telling me that poor old Alfred had to run that errand for him? It's pretty much as ridiculous as the scene from Breaking Dawn where they gave Bella blood in a takeaway styrofoam cup with a lid and straw.

[@Fanimati0n]

I actually want that now. "Welcome to Starbucks how can I hel- YOU'RE BATMAN!" "Yes, I am." "IS THERE A CRIME OR..." "No. I'm here as a cutomer" "Well, what what do want?" "JUSTI-, * clears throat * sorry. I need a half-caf caramel Macchiato please."

[@scarthmaheart6837]

Actually, Batman did do exactly that in the animated "Justice League" series. The episode "Only A Dream". Does not make it any less silly but... there is precedence.

[@gemminycricket7597]

Miserable Masquerade Seems an awful lot of effort for a coffee.

[@John-Stark]

These replies are a gold mine!

[@starzzzy22]

iam sherlocked that should have been a scene in the movie. Alfred heading out to Starbucks

[@kevlikesmovies4442]

8:00 "That's [the song sequence] not in the original. . ." Actually it is. It is in the original. It's just not put to music because it's a comic book, but The Joker is singing that song.

[@AussieDragoon]

Uh, the song number was in the original, there just wasn't (for obvious reasons) music behind it. My main issue with the movie is that, even without the first third, the animation and acting is not all there. Background characters sit frozen in place for the entire duration of scenes, a lot of the eyes are wonky, characters features tend to warp as they move further and closer to the "camera", some of the movement is janky, it's just unpolished. Then with the acting, I like all these actors in these roles, but a lot of the line work feels rushed, and some feel like they only did it in one take. Mark Hamill's last joke in the movie is delivered in such a rushed and honestly poor manner that it takes away from the weight of the scene. The whole project feels like the rushed it out the door, so in the end the prologue isn't this movies only problem.

[@matikz]

Was seeing if anyone had pointed this out yet. Even went and pulled my copy off the shelf to double check that the song had in fact been in the comic like I remembered.

[@dreamquesttv]

Ben Phillips The Song & Dance adaptation was one of the main reasons I wanted to see this.

[@soundrogue4472]

Yeah because the majority of the budget went to the first third if you didn't notice.

[@JohnnyRetro64]

Ben Phillips hell at 3:36 he shows a panel from the song and dance number

[@Jonadiah13]

Thank goodness, I thought I was going crazy.

[@Kaptain-Kain]

The jokers backstory in the comic is absolutly heartbreaking, regardless of whether or not its what really happened. The Joker remembers it differently everytime, but I think every version has the same basic theme/plot. The scene of him seeing his wife in the clown poster thing is actually really sad, this joker is a broken man, he lost everything, even his own mind. And despite his insanity keeping his true past a mystery even to himself, every version of his past that surfaces is tragic and painful.

[@jerrie1533]

This movie​ was a killing joke

[@jerrie1533]

I'll see myself out. (But to be fair, yeah, Batgirl's story f*cked up the entire movie)

[@miketheeditor4798]

A clown that DOES NOT want 5,000 subscribers I was viewing this movie a second time but this time I just skiped the first half and got strait into "The Killling Joke" part of the movie. If you ask me I'd give the actual "The Killling Joke" part a 7/10 it's good.

[@iug5672]

Hahaha...*strangling to death*

[@jerrie1533]

SUN EYES I'm glad that you enjoyed it, but like Doug said, I will forever associate that first third with the rest of the movie.

[@miketheeditor4798]

A clown that DOES NOT want 5,000 subscribers I mean the actual "The Killling Joke" part I liked a lot. The rest is just an elsworld story to me 😊. In case if you don't know DC also makes non canon comics called elsworld storys.

[@Nadodan]

I think I know what could have salvaged, instead of making the prologue about just Batgirl. Make it about Batgirl and the Joker, but have Joker cross a line, maybe he threatens children, maybe he shoots a boy's parents dead in front of him. Just something that would make Batman pause, make him realize that maybe the Joker isn't worth saving. Also instead of making it romantic make the dynamic between Batman and Batgirl familial, maybe she get's caught in a booby trap and Batman panic's for a moment at the idea that she's dead, and show Batman's friendship with Gordon. So it really drives the punch home when the Joker takes him and seriously wounds Barbara. This kind of prologue would be a lot better, it would set up the Killing Joke fine for those who don't know the comic, and make the connection between the two stronger for fans watching.

[@bruhnolook6940]

Kind of like Arkham Knight when Scarecrow screws with Batman thinkin Barbara was killed

[@Scarshadow666]

This kinda reminds me of some parts I've seen of the Batgirl DLC in Arkham Knight, where Joker has momentarily lingered his gun on Barb...

[@kingpinpasta2934]

The killing joke should’ve been an animated series episode

[@LucyLioness100]

Could’ve been a short film too with just the main story

[@mysterykiddo2167]

Maybe a TV special episode

[@jonbrewer297]

Last Laugh? Mark? You willing to do one last bit as the Joker?

[@TrivatorGaming]

It would've made an incredible finale before Batman Beyomd

[@DaloKnight]

The most distracting thing about this movie to me wasn't the batgirl stuff but the TIMELINE. It's all over the place.

[@TheSunsetHero256]

It would have been better if the prologue instead was Batman's first encounter with the Joker. You could've even had a young Barbra Gordon on the scene at the time. It would've added more weight to the scrap collecting scene as well as the overall connection Batman has with the Joker.

[@aaron552au]

I feel like the film missed an opportunity to show more of the relationship between Jim and Barbara Gordon and comparing/contrasting with the the Joker's origin, which in this case hinges so much on his dependence (emotional and financial) on his wife and his feelings of failure. Batman's connection is that the Joker thinks he's found a kindred soul who has *already* experienced the "bad day" he's attempting to create for Gordon. Batman's "bad day" was the death of his parents, which the viewers already know about and referencing it again might be a little tired.

[@bryanegelhoffsanimationtec257]

I just skip the first half hour with Batgirl. It's better when you just watch the part that's ACTUALLY the Killing Joke.

[@TMLCJLK]

Ignoring all the possible complaints, let’s just consider your final thoughts. People that would be more willing to accept the Prologue (beside its flaws) are the ones that will complaint on the lines of your complaints about the Killing Joke part. It is just a copy; it doesn’t add anything; even as a copy it is not as good; etc.. Now, on the other hand, people that would be ok/happy with the Killing Joke part being a faithful representation of the comics will go berserk (with good reason) with the Prologue. So, basically, it is a lose-lose scenario and it fails both ways.

[@crono3015]

I didn't read the comic. I hate the prologue. I was ok wirh the Killing Joke part.

[@Fanimati0n]

that's what's called a Catch 22

I'm ok with the whole thing. I don't see why if somebody can enjoy the first part would not be able to enjoy the second,.Not necessarily

[@markcobuzzi826]

+TheRealPearl "Holy Catch 22, Batman!"

[@MrTom23]

I dont like the prologue, i read the comic, loved it, and just wanted to hear mark hamill's performance on that, so i'm happy with the film as it is

[@benwallis5812]

They cut out my favorite part of killing joke where Gordon is in a cage and joker tells the circus freaks how the sane ones are the ones who are truly insane. That is unforgivable.

[@Ozz04]

"There's no song and dance sequence in the comic" Yes there is. I've heard this so often from reviewers it has me seriously wondering if any of them have actually read it. There is a song, with lyrics and the Joker and his Freaks are dancing about.

[@Razor-Blade]

LET'S GET THIS COMMENT TO THE TOP!

[@natkatmac]

Can you tell me what the tempo or rhythm of it was in the comic? Because all of my friends had different interpretations. I saw broadway, another saw rapping, another saw spoken poetry, and another saw just insanity exemplified. I'm pretty sure more than one person can miss the musicality of it, especially when the reader isn't inclined to think musically to begin with.

[@UnkownSoldier100]

natkatmac Oh god the joker rapping? lol

[@terig8974]

I guess "Broadway" is the closest description to the tempo and vibe of it in my mind.

[@humanconvertile]

Linkara once made a point about musicals in comics in I believe it was the Night Cat or Fortunate Son review, I can't remember which this was brought up in, but both feature a key point in music, that it's counter-intuitive to have this in a comic because there's no audio or often no means of tempo, so you can't really get a grasp to the merit of the song or feel the rhythm as well as you should. Plus, I have a feeling that when NC said there's not song and dance sequence, I think he meant that literally that the comic doesn't have movement and music. Those things are best pulled off by animation, I believe.

[@benjaminkeith1417]

"IF THE FIRST THIRD OF THIS MOVIE NEVER HAPPENED WOULD IT HAVE GOTTEN THE HATRED?" NO. LOL: BLATANTLY NO.

[@vafanapoli5396]

Benjamin Keith yes it would

[@climber6420]

@@vafanapoli5396 no that's litterly the only thing people talk about it would without the first 3rd people would just be disappointed but wouldn't be as hated

[@vafanapoli5396]

Sam Jackson nah that’s simply not true

[@themysteriouscatperson9483]

Climber 64 I don’t think you watched this video

[@ThatMissQuin]

The batgirl fanfiction was garbage. Listen to "The killing joke radio play/radio drama" on youtube. Joker's song is better to the tune of "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life".

[@anthonyfrancois-ospina]

There was a song in The Killing Joke Graphic novel! Agreed it could have been better in the film version.

[@rodster6campingprepper]

I'm not sure how Doug got that mixed up. The song and dance routine was straight from the book pretty much word for word. .

[@antitheist3206]

It's a good thing we've got Arkham, 'cause he really drives us bats.

[@jbain4750]

sagely Demonologist heehee

[@dooplon5083]

sagely Demonologist We even had a Joker song number in that show :p

[@zacharywilson6515]

Music Meister best villain.

[@Mongward]

Smile, darn ya, smile!

[@CaptainCat101]

When I first heard of the movie, I had no idea that the original comic was so loved, but was still very excited. When I finally saw it, I was shocked by how bad it was, and it was then I realized that people hated the film.

[@bright9886]

My main problem with this film is the stagnant animation. Just compare the vibrancy and color of the comic to the dull grey's of the film. Not to mention incredible stiff and jerky movements more at home with a VHS original film than a theatrical release.

[@kingarthurpendragon134]

TheHypocritic compare the animation from under the red hood and you can see how stiff the animation is compared to it.

[@yourmom9931]

Anyone who thinks TKJ has good animation and/or atmosphere should watch or rewatch Disney or some Ghibli films.Even some TV anime like AOT. That's good animation. The Killing Joke is not

[@crono3015]

+AT Productions Guess some folks just have more appreciation for animation, than you. And considering that Phantasm doesn't have that high of a budget, it was pretty impressive.

[@crono3015]

+ Your Mom Yeah, compare high budget films to something witha smaller budget. That's fair. And AOT is a garbage anime. Like every other anime. Waste of animation.

[@crono3015]

Yup. This movie only has a 3 million dollar budget. Of course the animation isn't up to Disney or Ghibli standards. If you expect something with that low of a budget to be on Disney's level, you might be an entitled baby with no respect for animation.

[@The1984projec]

The dialog also felt rushed, like Joker's famous monolog was cut down, not paying much attention to those lines. If they took their time on those scenes like NC said and added some small scenes, I think it would have been perfect.

[@C4DNerd]

7:56 - 8:02 Dude, I can't believe you made that mistake AGAIN! The song sequence IS in the comic. Like... really, read it again. It's in there. You may have just read it as dialogue, but the way it is written out, it's clear it was always meant to be a song the Joker sings.

[@stefanpoirier6810]

This calls for (finally) TOP 11 F-UPS PART 4!!!!!!

[@stefanpoirier6810]

More like top 30 lol!

[@himayamata]

When I first read it, I didn't even know he was singing. I didn't see that musical notes in the panel. I must've missed it. LOL

[@victorial3588]

C4DNerd Yeah..... When I first read it I was trying "sing" the song.... soo when he said that the song it's not in the original ..I was like "🤔but there WAS in the comic... "

[@stefanpoirier6810]

+Himayamata yeah I didn't know until I saw that the Joker's sentences were rhyming.

[@CinemaNerd_Dante]

8:14 I agree with this completely, I would imagine dead bodies or other dead people hanging from a ceiling burned with smiles on their faces and dressed as the joker, or maybe he’s torturing someone.

[@sammcguire3798]

I love how this movie tries to make batgirl a more powerful character by having her as a batman obsessed, annoying, and sex wanting idiot who literally gets her clothes taken off by joker

[@lucasbell4831]

Sam McGuire But she's INDEPENDENT! ...right? That's what independence in female characters is nowadays?

[@jasonblalock4429]

See, I feel like they almost could have gotten away with having Batman & Batgirl bang if it really HAD been a "heat of the moment" thing that just happens and then they move on from. The problem was that Batman turns into a colossal dick about it, causing Batgirl to then get all whiny, and basically turn the entire thing into some horrible soap opera bullshit. I'm not saying it should have happened - because it was a bad idea - but the context surrounding the sex scene makes it far worse than if it really just had been a case of raging hormones overriding people's better judgement.

[@UnkownSoldier100]

alexandra galici No woman in real life can fight and beat men the way Batgirl who is pretty small does. Technically she would need Batman's protection in a brawl.

[@0123-q2p]

alexandra galici agreed, I enjoyed the Killing Joke portion of the movie, but the Batgirl x Batman thing was completely unnecessary

[@mabusestestament]

Ehr... she dresses like Batman and wants to be his female counterpart, what did you expect? Ofcourse she is kinda obsessed with him and wants to bang him.

[@NitsuaGamer]

As a Harry Potter fan, yeah I would probably be annoyed if they did a pointless prologue with Ron Weasley. Especially since there's no noteworthy character development for him until he becomes friends with Harry who should rightfully so should remain the main protagonist. Thanks Chris Columbus for making a faithful version even if there were changes and plot points taken out!

[@sterlingmuse5808]

And it would be even worse if they made Ron into a weaker character in the process.

[@marcosdheleno]

its funny you say that, because the movies are actually NOT as faithful as you think. the most faithful in the series is probably secret chamber, and that one is considered the weakest(not worst, since they are all loved).

[@sterlingmuse5808]

Marcos Danilo I actually like that one the best, but that's probably because I could see all the inaccuracies in the later ones XD

[@cheowesley860]

The movie would've been fine if they just didn't have that sex scene with Bruce and Barbara. That was just cringe inducing.

[@gasolinedrinker9170]

Cheo Wesley I agree

[@KingShark47]

I hated it as well

[@aguywithalotofopinions412]

Fun fact: the same guy who was the head of the team of Batman, the animated series (and a big chunk of the DCAU) also wrote most of the first 30 minutes of this movie. In fact, the sex scene was his idea. Really makes you see that series differently.

[@ryantheanimator1156]

I feel like recent Batman animated movies are getting lower quality! The upcoming Harley Quinn animated movie also look to have sup-par/passable animation when compared to the Batman: TAS.

[@Nightman221k]

The Teen Titans Judas Contract animated movie had great animation, but I know what you mean the Batman & Harley Quinn movie's animation looks on the level of the Gotham Girls webisodes from 2000 with the characters having a low frame rate and limited motion, like every corner was cut and they reused the TNBA character models to save time hiring a new character designer to make something original.

[@BlythePennyBicycle21]

The Lego Batman movie is pretty good.

[@ryantheanimator1156]

I'm just talking strictly about the direct to dvd movies and not theatrical movie, like SuperSnuggleFluff said.

[@ryantheanimator1156]

Ikr? Batman & Harley Quinn should have much better animation with fluid movement due to its simpler design by Bruce Tim, and we all know movies with Bruce Tim's design like Batman Mask of Phantasm and JL Gods and Monsters have great animation quality. But as far as the trailer has showed, it's pretty much on par with The killing Jokes. I don't mind them reusing the Batman Adventure design, but the lack of animation kind of let me down. I also think some of the new 52 movies were not as good as the past DC animated movies, especially JL War and the new 52 Batman trilogies (except Flashpoint Paradox which I still think is the best among the new 52 movies).

[@Kaefer1973]

+Ryan Tran What about kinda direct to DVD movies with promotional cinema screenings? I heard little complaints about "Return of the Caped Crusaders"

[@MorticiaGravesyde]

8:19 -- "Joker: The Musical" Okay, seriously...someone needs to make that happen. I mean, not ME -- I don't know the Batman series (and, therefore, The Joker) well enough to do it -- but SOMEONE does.

[@tommyboi6430]

Morticia Gravesyde A Murder Musical :^D

[@pooler57]

Joker 2 is gonna have it

[@Autoinque]

the thing im incredibly disappointed by, is the fact that the animation is horrible. Compare it to ANY of the Gotham Knight animation, which has AMAZING detail and AMAZING animation. And its possible to make such animations because anime does it frequently. I just wish westerners took animation as seriously as like Japan does. This couldve been an amazing movie. But failed visually to me.

[@cherrygrabber7172]

The WebHead Depends however, anime is typically less “animated” than cartoons. There are factors in terms of animation quality, budgeting, time constraints and character or environment details. Smooth animation is more possible with simplified linework, colours and shading, that’s why cartoons are more “animated” with more frames to show on screen than a regular anime, which are more detailed but showed less movement, depending on scenes from action to laidback. It’s not exactly horrible or of Disney quality, but for an R-rated spin-off movie, it’s alright, I’ll take what I can get.

[@Wickedweeknd21]

The WebHead when I first bought a Batman animated movie I was excited just from the cover then seeing the animation it is a let down

[@GamzeenMakara]

"...her gay best friend..." Me: Is that Draco???

[@justanotherarmchairgeneral4240]

*"It's gone from the most hyped to the most hated, but did the Killing Joke really offend as much as people say?"* Batsex. Your argument is invalid.

[@slayersmurfable]

This isn't even the first existence of "batsex". If you go back to batman beyond Batgirl basically comes out and says she had a relationship with batman. the clip is on KZbin you can look it up yourself. Now it being a good adaptation is up for debate and is one thing but dismissing the whole thing over one aspect which has been canon for years before this even came out is another all together.

[@SapphWolf]

True, but I also feel the need to point out that she heavily implies it was an actual relationship and not what this is. She also says she gave up being Batgirl rather than getting shot so, clearly in the Beyond storyline Killing Joke didn't happen.

[@andrewmurdock3357]

Batman Beyond and the comics that showed the Bruce and Barbara relationship are not canon.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

I, personally, didn't find it offensive, I just found it pointless. It seems to me, from talking to people online, that the crux of their argument for why they found it offensive was because they view the relationship between Batman and Batgirl as being, like with the Robins, a father/child relationship, which it is not. Unlike the Robins (except for Tim Drake and Damien Wayne) Barbara not only has a living father but they have a strong bond and a loving parent/child relationship (hell in "Killing Joke" they're either sharing an apartment or she's over visiting him when the Joker shows up). Barbara isn't looking for a father figure in Batman, she's looking for a mentor and a trainer. Yeah, it's a bit icky for a mentor or trainer (a teacher) to have a sexual relationship with their student, but she's not a child, at this point, and while in certain settings there may be rules against it anyway, this isn't really one of them. Again, pointless yes, creepy or offensive, no.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

I was on break from comics, at the time, but weren't the comics that depicted them together from a point where Batman Beyond itself wasn't cannon (when it was still in its own universe like the other comics based on animated series like Justice League Unlimited)? I can't imagine there would be many wanting to bring that element of the series into the mainstream DCU. Although in her New 52 solo series she was starting to date her physical therapist (this was after he was done working with her though). Oh and just a little while ago she was dating Penguin's son so maybe she just makes poor dating choices. :)

[@cyanide_vids]

"The most hyped DC release ever became the most dreaded" Batman vs Superman anyone?

[@babyyoshi3099]

Batman vs Superman went from hyped to hated. Killing Joke went from hyped to dreaded to hated. BvS never had dread.

[@oneandonlyangie9422]

BenIsRandom Suicide Squad?

[@Rabbalian]

He said the "most hyped ANIMATED DC release"

[@drksideofthewal]

"He left out one word. KILL HIM WITH FIRE!" DC fanboys are the worst.

[@Dargonhuman]

+drksideofthewal He left out the most important word of the quote that changed the entire context of the sentence. I'd say that's worth a little lambasting.

[@FellowManofAggieland]

15% of comments: Like the Killing Joke. 25% of comments: Don’t like it. 60% of comments: Wanting to know what the background music is.

[@danieltentori7523]

I still want to know that background

[@danieltentori7523]

Hydra Huma - Huma

[@Rhino-n-Chips]

"Incredibly faithful" is stretching it. It's faithful to the dialogue, mostly, but alot of important details were either changed unnecessarily, or just left out for no reason. The biggest offender is the "Why aren't you laughing" scene. The Joker says this in hall of mirrors with a sad expression on his face, like he's introspecting on why nobody finds this as funny as he does. In the movie, he's yelling at batman in the middle of a fistfight. Don't know about you but that's a bit unfaithful at best and clueless to the point of the scene at worst. There's a bit where Batman first enters Arkham; The receptionist looks panicked as Batman enters, fumbling a box of cigarettes and a sign on the desk saying "You don't have to be crazy to work here- but it helps!" people who deal with the Arkham prisoners go a little crazy themselves. In the movie... there's a blank computer; that's it. I also remember Two-face looking trough his cell doors, quietly staring at Gordon. It looks like they're remembering when they worked together and how far he's fallen. In the movie he's scrawling at the door for his coin like a monster. I could go on - as NC said the flashback transitions are awful, point is it's not a bad adaption, but calling it unfaithful would be putting it lightly.

[@grimmjowjagger-jack2815]

Rhino 'n Chips That's harsh man

[@irwegwert]

It kind of sounds like you've seen hbomberguy's video on the Killing Joke.

[@Rhino-n-Chips]

I did, but I read the book and watched the movie before, and those were my thoughts as well. I didn't mention how Two face looks like both Joker and Batman in one panel even though it's a great point because I didn't pick up on it when I read it.

[@rhett8-u1n]

I did notice or at least felt something was off in how the comic parts played out in the animation during my initial viewing, but I won't deny that really popped out alot more after watching Hbombers vid. I think unknowingly or not Doug picked out a scene that really summed up what I thought was the problem with the movie perfectly at 6:07. The first word that came to mind was LAZY. Sure its copying it panel for panel, but in a very superficial way; there is so much detail in so many of those panels that DO connect to the main story, that could've been animated. That laziness also spills over into the visuals, the angles, the colors (stuff like that musical could've used), the writing (why the beginning and the story proper are so different in terms of dialogue). I think that's maybe why people are so angry. An adaption of a beloved work came out cheap and half-hearted despite the creators' insisting otherwise.

[@irwegwert]

Ah cool. Hope I didn't come off like I was accusing you of stealing ideas or something!

[@kirkgacias7828]

The ending was already satisfying enough. If you were to go back and watch it again, you'll hear that Joker's laugh disappears and the only sound you can hear is Batman laughing and the rain falling implying that Batman just killed Joker

[@OrganicPerception]

The Killing Joke's original color scheme was so vivid and jarring, leaving it's own impression on every single scene. The adaptation does away with all that for grey, grey, grey. The colors in the adaptation are ALL GONE. TAS Batman's color scheme was awesome on the show and it's spin-offs (the good ones), but does that mean that EVERY Batman animated endeavor from now on has to follow that black/grey color scheme? To be taken seriously, it has to be grey, right? In regards to thejoker reveal, in your head you can picture joker much more animated, moving his body up and down, shifting much more in a frenzy, probably eyes agape then closed in mania.. In the animated version.....they barely shift his body for the whole scene, eyes open the whole time. It looks like NES animation.. Creatively, it's lazy. You can see it a mile away.

[@OrganicPerception]

Check out /watch?v=1_r-qsxGiKY to see a glimpse of what could have been.

[@oleksandrfradkin6199]

At 8:50 I just had an idea that what if before he was breaking down in laughter, he would first have flashes of his former life with his wife and then remembering the two police officers telling him that his wife and child are gone. Then after that be slowly breaks into laughter knowing that he has nothing to lose and he can do whatever he wants and he doesn't care what will happen to him in the end.

[@sarahwalter7198]

You made a mistake. The song is in the comic

[@escopeto7849]

Thank you! Glad somebody points it out - that and the fact that the lyrics from that song originated from the comic and the melody couln't be heard, so in the movie they had to adapt and compose around it. Credit where credit is due.

[@crono3015]

I heard the melody in the comic.

[@sarahwalter7198]

Escopeto after I saw the movie in theatres I played the song while looking at the comic and it's word for word. They even start showing pictures of Barbra at the same time the comic does

[@jesssully123]

Honestly though I didn't get that it was a song till looking at it again. So was it ment be a song to begin with? Just curious. I thought it was more of a poem when I originally read it

[@escopeto7849]

@Jess Skellington Your comment makes clear why NC also didn't think there was a song. In the comic, the lack of musical notes around the speech bubbles makes it somewhat difficult to identify it as a musical number. However, by the looks of Joker's dancing performance and the lyrical composition we can correctfully read it as a song. It was always there and just waited to be performed musically. Joker even says in the panel before "Music, Sam!"

[@dark12794]

um... that song is in the comic... word for word....

[@EasilyBoredGamer]

I think the issue is in the comic it's not exactly obvious he's singing a song, at least it wasn't at first to me

[@dark12794]

i can aghree with that. First time i rtead it was when i was 16, and yeah i rread it more like a ryhming monologue than a song. but the ;last few times i read it as an adult i noticed RIGHT AWAY there's musical notes syurrounding every word in each bubble. So i mean as a kid, yeah i can see that being a thing someone missed. but as an Adult not so much...

[@dark12794]

I actually really like threir rendition of the son too, very lonney tunes/vaudvillian.

[@phucko6952]

Darth Theron Almost, I believe there's one line in the middle that's changed.

[@dark12794]

Johnathan Pepper. no I think it's also literally one word. I distincty remember reading the comic along with the song and I remember it being perfect.

[@Rez996]

yeah, the Batgirl scenes were the only part that killed it for me. I enjoyed the rest of it.

[@defaulttvofficial]

Nostalgia critic should become a writer for movies

[@sirpranksalot1]

He tried and failed miserably. He released a movie.

[@steelbear2063]

He can barely right a really funny sketch now for some reason. Used to be amazing. And Kickassia - loved it. Although, coming back to the channel, I must say he's on the upswing

[@marcellofunhouse1234]

@@steelbear2063 you mean write not right

[@_the_rizzler]

@@sirpranksalot1 What's it called?

[@sirpranksalot1]

@@_the_rizzler Nostalgia Critic: The Movie

[@vindurza]

the fact they added an unneeded sex scene to the film to get it R rated I'd say yes if you drop that scene you get a very hard PG13 the R rating was just to make it gritty to make it look adult like Deadpool that also came out at that time

[@manuelalbertoromero9528]

Oh please. Deadpool deserved that rating. And it's not like the killing Joke did anything gore wise that hasn't been done better in the The Dark Knight Returns for example.

[@stefanpoirier6810]

What throws me off is how they really didn't take advantage of that rating. It isn't hard as it has been done in just about everything from "Watchmen" to "Sin City", or even "Die Hard" or "RoboCop". Seriously.

[@YamiSpyroX]

Vindurza is anything Under The Red Hood should've been the first R rated Batman Film for that was worse than Killing Joke violent content wise.

[@michaelramon2411]

+Stefan Poirier Film is R-rated... and censors its own nudity in what's supposed to be a disturbing scene.

[@stefanpoirier6810]

+Michael Ramon it's like DC doesn't want to push the envelope. They did with "Watchmen". The original graphic novel of "WTchmen" may not have the f-word whatsoever but you could tell it was nowhere near a PG-13 world within that comic. I'm very angry that "The Killing Joke" animated film didn't even try. What are they waiting for?

[@MadTurnip]

Wow, Critic understands Joker better than Jared Leto does.

[@gulorful8488]

What did he say?

[@mistersinister2043]

Mad Turnip Everyone does.

[@FullForce098]

Jared Leto didn't write the script or direct the movie or design the costume. We didn't see enough of him in the movie to know how much of it was his performance and how much was the fucking awful writing.

[@brian.jrmontoya3227]

Mad Turnip it's really not that hard either, so I don't get what Jared Leto's deal was.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

I've seen the extended cut. As far as I can tell all the bitching from fans is based on the superficial. Who gives a crap about what clothes he wears (for most of the comics I read in the mid 80's to the early 90's he didn't wear the style of suit that people seem to connect to him anyway)? As for the infamous tattoos at least they didn't invalidate his whole origin like, oh I don't know, wearing freaking make up instead of actually looking like a clown. I would say that's a much bigger departure from the character than some silly tattoos.

[@Larvion]

That's just such a freaking good review, so much love and so many details. Just glorious. - Greetings from germany.

[@Jarod-te2bi]

Greetings from Germany.

[@esausjudeannephew6317]

You are one of the best critics ever. I'm not used to somebody really putting that much thought and creativity into a review. And your suggestions are actually damn good. Well done.

[@AFluffyKantus]

I liked the Killing Joke (comic) so much i got it tattooed on my arm.

[@TheModernPainter]

AFluffyKantus That's​ cool!

[@christianrc6485]

The full issue? Goddamm

[@Rain-King]

The Killing Joke would make for the easiest fan edit in history: simply cut the prologue and there you have it - a good, faithful adaptation with some unfulfilled potential.

[@GarrettTheViking]

When I watched this movie, I started it where the comic started, at Arkham Asylum, and I thought it was good. I've never seen the prologue except for a few clips on KZbin, and I never plan to see it in full.

[@TrivatorGaming]

Or just collect the Audio and have an newly animated version with more energy and a more interesting color palette

[@CantRead1]

​@@GarrettTheVikingliterally what I do whenever I watch it.

[@Gadzinisko]

1. Yes, the prologue simply sucks. I heard that it sucked before watching the movie, was prepared and it was still unbearable. Good action scenes don't save it. 2. Yes, the part that's actually based on the comic is good as transformation of the comic. The stills are well put to life. And hearing Conroy and Hamill saying these lines is just AMAZING, even if Hamill sounds really different than how he used to sound in the 90s. 3. Yes, it could've been so much more. I think that instead of adding bad backstory to Batgirl, they should've explored the relationship between Batman and Joker even more, making a prologue about Batman (with a help of Batgirl! Better way of adding depth to this character and showing that she is actually helpful, not just a obsessed fangirl...) catching Joker and putting him in Arkham Asylum this time. There is several decades of material to adapt for such thing. It could have been a tribute not only to killing joke, but to that unique relationship between these characters... 4. And of course it could've been so much more if you just took the Killing Joke and added some creativity to it, like NC suggests...

[@JONAH_918]

Honestly, if this movie made the art style a bit more shadow-intensive and added in certain things mentioned in this review, (cutting the prologue included) this could be a great film

[@georgeking4276]

DC did a great job with the joker last year.First they make a mediocre to really bad adaptation of the greatest joker comic ever and then they say he loves Harley Quin and give him stupid tattoos.

[@DDHero2806]

WB did that not DC. DC makes comics not movies or animated movies...

[@marcosdheleno]

well, technically, dc is owned by WB, so...

[@benandrews603]

+Marcos Danilo and thats why people need to blame WB they're the ones fucking everything up, the DC comics are doing great..

[@DDHero2806]

^Yep^

[@NoTodoEsArte1]

What's the name of the song on the background? Pls help me if you know

[@keithknight1665]

"the review must go on" its in the subtitles and at 12:36 it says who wrote and made it so i dont think its a proper song it was just made for this channel

[@keithknight1665]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4PHg3hnpaiegJo kzbin.info/www/bejne/iKS6pXaKmtKehbc

[@Azariachan]

He said "background", though, not the theme song... He most likely meant the music that's quietly playing in the background while the Critic talks.

[@danielmartin37]

Hydra by Huma-Huma, in the KZbin Audio Library

[@KlassicKolt5612]

Daniel Martin. Thank you so much! I've been looking for this song everywhere! :D

[@henkman00]

could the movie be better? sure, however, the movie does add that extra element that the comic didn't have: Kevin Conroy, Mark Hamill, and Tara Strong. and they gave the story a voice and that is what made this movie for me. but aside from that, I'm just here for the thumbnail.

[@sam.e.a6422]

I blame Bruce timm. He has a disgusting fixation on the batman-batgirl romance and because of that I will never respect him

[@imaadshahrukh4829]

Sam.E.A Batman is the only DC character he understands explaining why he downgrades other DC heroes the Justice League animated series. Not to forget that he is the exact reason why animated adaptations of DC properties are afraid to take risks with lesser heroes.

[@zufgh]

@@imaadshahrukh4829 THANK YOU! I am so sick of the endless Batman releases. Give me more Superman, WW, Aquaman, Plastic Man, Flash and Green Lantern for Christ's sake. There's more to the DC universe than just fucking Batman.

[@trenchcoatjoe1891]

@@shadowspider9 I call it the Dracula rule.

[@matthewmuir8884]

Ugh; tell me about it. I was watching Batman Beyond for the first time earlier this year, and when there was a scene where Barbara tells Terry what happened to her after Dick Grayson left Gotham and became Nightwing, she implies that she slept with Bruce. I was sick to my stomach when I saw that, and that was just it being implied. I really enjoyed Batman Beyond, but that sickened me.

[@sam.e.a6422]

@@matthewmuir8884 that right there is the only problem with batman the animated series and its extended universe. It's all so perfect except for one massive blemish

[@michaelramon2411]

I think The Killing Joke film managed to be a perfect storm of mistakes adaptation makers make. Firstly, the prologue is a good example of an add-on that is not only pointless, but also bad on its own merits while simultaneously missing the fundamental themes and tone of the original. Secondly, the Killing Joke part itself suffers from a crippling fear of changing ANYTHING, even when it would have improved things. Alan Moore wasn't perfect, everyone. This actually leads to the third mistake, which is that they TRIED to fix the comic's biggest issue (crippling Batgirl as an afterthought) while being too afraid to actually change the story. Thus, instead of altering any component of the KJ and risking the wrath of obsessive fans, they instead put their changes in the prologue, which not only did not fit and was not good, but didn't even fix the problem. Bruce Timm's Bruce/Barbara ship didn't help things either. Now, I understand why the creators would be so afraid to change anything, but for the work to be done right, the changes would have to be integrated into the KJ story itself. There were little things that could have been done: have a wounded Barbara covertly grab evidence when the Joker is bending over her, and Batman use that to track Joker down. Have the wounded Barbara nevertheless have enough strength to punch the Joker once while he's up in her face. Have her in the hospital say something to Batman that he later repeats to Gordon so he knows she's alive. Something like that. The prologue involving her is also not a bad idea, but it needed A connection to the main story. At a minimum, have Joker sneaking around, slowly putting together the resources to achieve his scheme. Or have the prologue be "business as usual" Joker, and when he is defeated, Batman, Batgirl or Gordon says something that makes him decide that he needs to escalate. Then you'd have a time skip during which he escapes and the Killing Joke proper can begin. Just anything other than "Batman and Batgirl fight a guy with no relation to the Joker for 30 minutes, both are terrible at their jobs and then they have sex for no reason, after which they break up, never mention it again and the actual plot starts." In summary, the Killing Joke's flaws come primarily from what I would call "studio issues." In particular, an unwillingness to take the risks needed to actually improve the story. Sometimes playing it safe can get you something halfway decent. Not this time.

[@stephysteph8558]

Any one of those brief plot points would have given Barbara more character arc than the actual prologue did.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

What's really bad about the added material is that there was actually a Batgirl Special called "The Last Batgirl Story" which, if they had done that instead, would've done everything they said they were trying to do in the first place.

[@rotwang2000]

"Alan.Moore.isn't.perfect" There are places in the world where you get the death penalty for saying that. It's true, especially when you see people putting on that fake smile and forcing themselves to grab a copy of Promethea and then claim they love every page of it in exactly the same way people claimed to love a dictator, always with one eye behind their back, expecting the secret police to arrest them nevertheless. I admire the effort Moore puts into his work, but it doesn't mean I must also love the content, especially because he himself said that some of it is made up bs.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

Look on the bright side, at least he's not Frank Miller. :)

[@BreakfastAtNoon]

Could of been better. Could of been worse. was alright.

[@BreakfastAtNoon]

kelsch depends, I'm a brummy so in my accent that is how it is said.

[@speccysquaregolike9629]

ManThatYouFear Doesn't mean it's right.

[@guydude6546]

ManThatYouFear in my accent its pronounced like "you're an idiot"

[@4rtificial1dioty]

Yea so let's show 'em how not to do it m( BTW "Could've" sounds exactly like "could of" no matter your accent so ... BS

[@PedroMata]

Your accent does not supplant basic sentence formation

[@bryanegelhoffsanimationtec257]

I just skipped the first 3rd, and the movie was just fine.

[@NoahDaArk]

8:05 Actually, That scene in the comic was an actual music scene

[@adama.7735]

Yes, it was indeed that bad. Frankly, even the 'Killing Joke' portion of the film was pretty sub-par. The animation was dull, Conroy and Hamill both sounded like they were phoning it in, and there were a lot of scenes that seemed to drag on just to pad out the runtime.

[@gabegonzalez7560]

There's no song in the comic? Oh god, who's gonna tell him

[@aros0018]

I'm remembering the Superman vs. the Elite animated movie WB made, which was based on a fairly short story from the comics, shorter than even The Killing Joke. Like TKJ, that movie had to add more to stretch out its runtime or else the entire movie would likely only have been about 30 minutes long. But while it was overall faithful to the comic, unlike TKJ this movie can't be just be cut into two separate stories. The movie expanded on what the original comic contained, giving us more time to get to know the Elite and even having them and Superman working together and getting along for the most part. It added a villain to the story, Atomic Skull, so it could explore more whether superheroes should play judge, jury, and executioner and even showing how the average normal person in this world feels about Superman's idea of justice vs. the Elite's. And it all leads up to an climax overall very faithful to the original story. Even if you personally don't care for Superman vs. The Elite (it's one of my favorite DC animated movies, but to each their own) it was a good adaptation, holding true to the ideas, themes, and overall plot of the original comic but adding new content where it needed to, not only to make it feel like an actual movie but to also expand on what the original had.

[@thegreatexterminator1095]

That song and dance Joker does when torturing Comissioner Gordon DOES happen in the comic.

[@Magic_monkey_man]

I'm watching this in full Joker makeup, questioning my sanity

[@Samm815]

wow...

[@paxonite-7bd5]

The Trammell nope

[@klystron2010]

If you still care about your sanity, you're no Joker.

[@Magic_monkey_man]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[@rennyarachne4560]

The Trammell There we go.

[@TheCelticTiger32]

What they should have done is a prologue in the beginning about batgirl and batman first encounter as a team with the joker. I would have batgirl be inexperienced and vulnerable (aged around 15-16). She would look at the joker in horror after she looks at him for the first time. The joker is relatively new and this is the first time he's escaped prison since batman put him in. I feel like including the joker in the prologue is important because this is essentially a joker story and that is what I feel the movie we got, was missing. Also I want to show the joker and batgirl relationship from its earliest stage. Joker would make fun at batgirl at first saying something like "oh look, you've brought a little bat brat, isn't it past your bedtime?" I would have batgirl make a mistake and almost die at the hands of a goon, but only for batman intervention by taking say a knife to the arm, saves her. Batman would eventually prevail and arrest joker but batgirl would be injured. I would then cut to commissioner Gordon busting in the room with the GCPD and catching joker and his goons tied up. I like this parallel, as in the future the rolls will be reversed with Commissioner tied up at the mercy of the joker. Batman would feel guilty having put Barbara in danger. Then cut to 15 years later with the killing joke origin. I would try make this sequence only 20 mins long. I also like the idea of showing the comic panels adapted on screen with different angles. Also elongating original scenes would be interesting. Imagine after joker first becomes the joker after looking at his reflection in the water, then getting up continuing to laugh as he walks through the streets, he bumps into a man and strangles him to death, committing his first ever murder. Imagine that! actually seeing his first murder. I think a lot of missed opportunities were had in this.

[@bigboyfilmproductions8478]

actually there is a song sequence in the comic the way joker says his words is done like a song number

[@SonicFan64Tom]

It's worth it to hear Mark's perfect portrayal of The Joker in the Killing Joke.

[@sperrin]

"There's a song sequence when the Joker is torturing Commissioner Gordon, its not in the original." May want to check your research there Doug... the song is in the original.

[@creativevisiongaming]

They should have had Madhouse animate this. The drawings in the animated movie look really cheap except for a few scenes.

[@awsomeboy360]

I mean Madhouse isn't the only good animation stuido in Japan, y'know.

[@nashruga7115]

Yeah, maybe Madhouse will make this Killing Joke more dark if their old staff is still on Madhouse. But, now I think it's impossible because the Madhouse animation style is different due to many old staff now leaves Madhouse.

[@awsomeboy360]

The Japanese animating industry, generally, does 2D better than America. Why? The shift to 3D animation with the revolutionary film "Toy Story" completely changed America's animating industry.

[@emersonisham3555]

Hey, Doug. what was the background music you were using? it sounds awesome.

[@obiwankenobi9141]

It’s obvious that they used the comic as a story board and I respect them trying to be as faithful as possible.

[@PlatinumYoshi]

*Insert bad early joke here*

[@wildernessstyle8810]

You already did.

[@PlatinumYoshi]

Mister England My mission has accomplished

[@rommix0]

You're killing it. eh?

[@PlatinumYoshi]

Mr Spectacals Ba dum tiss

[@jimmyjohnson1426]

I came so early, the tip didn't even touch her lips.

[@vegancarnotaurus8216]

the animation is terrible and they removed a lot of symbolism, like the light in the final panel or Harvey's face divided by the bars.

[@MGrey-qb5xz]

weird considering the critic just said the opposite things,maybe he has low standards?

[@bubblebriarrose]

I'm just afraid that Jared Leto is going to want to do his own version of The Killing Joke.......

[@TripleTSingt]

"Maybe he could've tear it apart, or burn it down, or laugh" yep, thats the joker right there. all he does. Oh, and murder