Wasting our time responding to reddit's hardware subreddit

[@gnsteve8846]

Also lol at doing the math wrong for the percent change. I was furious and trying to contain my anger to present it in a calm way. Oops! 50% decrease, 100% increase. Sorry! We were going to post this on the main channel, but we have too much actual content going up over there and don't want to do people a disservice by wasting an upload slot on something so trivial. Decided to just push this to the side channel to still set the record straight with some misunderstandings about how reviews work.

[@anasevi9456]

If Intel is doing good, AMD fanboys crawl out of the woodworks to brigade and seethe, if AMD is doing well, it's much the same with Intel fanboys.

[@carnsoaks1]

BLOKES,Your DETRACTORS are all either flat earth devotees, (denying gravertee), primary schoolers (and are yet to learn calc, algebra, or physics), intel schill's (this time), next time NIVIDIA ex'es, witches & warlocks be crazy, professional trolls & masturbaters or SIMPLY MORONS, who don't vaccinate, nor read fiction; who watch FOX News and hate '"THEM", They praise a Lord BUT CHEAT ON THEIR SPOUSES.

[@poiisondn]

You should post that specific reddit post so we can bombard it. I recall seeing that post but scrolled through it on my reddit wall.

[@wobblysauce]

You can only do so much Steve.

[@nO_d3N1AL]

The fact that you had the patience to respond to this in such detail is amazing, for a 1 million sub channel too!

[@benni_w_]

Wow, telling Steve that he should work harder is one of the worst insults I've ever heard.

[@shaneeslick]

I feel it is selfish but I keep asking Steve to have more days off so we can have more Snowflake & Downhill Bike vids here 🥰😺🚲

[@teaser6089]

@@shaneeslick yeeeees that would be amazing. To be honest I don't mind unscripted videos like his mountain bike ones. I mean I watch buildzoid, so even this video sounds scripted if you compare it to Buildzoid haha

[@retrosoul-]

Right?! I thought he was going to explode lol.

[@vladimirljubopytnov5193]

Totally agree, I totally feel Steves pain... Among millions of viewers there will be salty statistician... thats statistics :D

[@teaser6089]

@@vladimirljubopytnov5193 I saw what you did there :)

[@JarrodsTech]

"I could make much better arguments against my own content than these because every day that's what I'm doing" man do I hear that, well said.

[@gnsteve8846]

Keep at what you're trying to do, man. We see you around everywhere and it's nice to see a familiar poster! That's the right attitude to get better. Will check out your content!

[@JarrodsTech]

@@gnsteve8846 Cheers!

[@mattsmechanicalssi5833]

@@gnsteve8846 You should. Jarrod has to be the best laptop reviewer on YT. Been watching his content since he had 18K subs.

[@gautamdiwan5952]

@@mattsmechanicalssi5833 10K gang :)

[@saatie]

welp

[@seb_yt6695]

Oh, don't mind me. Just wasting my time watching a video about wasting your time.

[@saatie]

@@TheMarketRecap rofl

[@douglas8568]

I wasting time reading comments about wasting time watching a video about wasting youtuber time reading reddit comments, to reach full circle, I will print my comment and create a thread on reddit. The Spice must flow!

[@saatie]

@@douglas8568 EPIC

[@Hardwareunboxed]

If there are any Eskimo's in the comments section, I have a ship load of fresh ice I need to offload.

[@gnsteve8846]

SO THEY WERE RIGHT?!

[@Hardwareunboxed]

​@@gnsteve8846 I'm still working on completing my first successful transaction, so technically no not yet, but it's only a matter of time before I prove them right.

[@GiLoTech]

GIMME GIMME

[@shaneeslick]

@@Hardwareunboxed Hey Steve, maybe include a couple of 🐧Penguins🐧 in the Deal as a sweetener, once the Eskimos see how Awesome Our Southern Hemisphere Ice is they'll be hooked, then you can start a new KZbin channel Hammer on Box Ice 😁

[@imo098765]

If you selling information about RDNA 2 flavoured ice, I would be interested

[@chrisz5z]

It's ironic that the reddit poster, who proclaims he's a professional researcher, didn't do his research

[@henuli]

Probably graduated from youtube junior high and yell loudly from reddit community college

[@Seanweekhaizhen]

Found the user www.reddit.com/user/IPlayAnIslandAndPass/

[@GlaciatorGaming]

everyone on reddit is the runt of their respective litters tbh

[@Ecliptor.]

this is the case most of the time

[@denizenofclownworld4853]

lol@ 'professional researcher' Translation; unemployable know-it-all.

[@ilionsd]

If Steve does Gamers Nexus teardown, will he find glue?

[@pauld4238]

Possibly two-way glue ... yes I had a customer ask me for 2-way glue. 😩

[@Pa7na]

@@pauld4238 fyi, customers that ask for two-way glue usually are looking for two‑component adhesives. At least that's been my experience!

[@roebbiej]

@@pauld4238 omg that's at the same level of blinked fluid!

[@pauld4238]

@@roebbiej it would be if he hadn’t actually been serious

[@vortraz2054]

If those Reddit intel shills think this can tear down GN they must not realize how much steve hates glue

[@seanrobertson3833]

The complaints the reddit user mentions is why I watch GN. Because you highlight your not perfect, because you factor in error, because you do what you can to inform the user of every variable and change. There comments are irrelevant in the most case. You make it very clear and often reference your test methodology in review videos. The amount I have learnt about thermals, statistic and game improvements between components is astronomical and as a customer and a consumer I am now more informed than ever when making a purchase and understanding feature as well as filtering marketing BS. We appreciate the work you put in and the clarity/effect you put in to the reviews. I watch several review to ensure I am informed and I have covered all bases I can before making a significant purchase, but GN is where I come for my primary review. Because each review video (unless specifically mentioned in the video) is consistent and standardised, allowing an accurate comparison.

[@gnsteve8846]

Thanks for the kind words! There are lots of more informed channels out there as well, so if you ever want to learn from the real pros, we can happily recommend Der8auer, Buildzoid, xDevs, Anandtech, and similar content creators!

[@shaneeslick]

G'day Sean, I feel exactly the same, I think you were more to the point than me though, I tend to ramble like Buildzoid 😁

[@ilovefunnyamv2nd]

Can you imagine what the space would be like WITHOUT GN? I mean sure we got linus building the BADDEST NAS in the country. But really we would be stuck having the same low budget case reviews from the manufacturer, and making a decision based soley on 'i think that will look nice on my desk'

[@davidmiller9485]

@@gnsteve8846 the dunning kruger effect is in full effect on Reddit. Course it's can also be in effect anywhere online.

[@DW_25]

Budget Rossman rants. Or would this be the high production version?

[@gnsteve8846]

Budget, for sure. Nothing can touch the Rossman rant quality!

[@Kale-Man]

GNSteve add a cat or two, maybe rant while bike riding, that’s the rossman way

[@callidusvulpes5556]

@@gnsteve8846 Rossmann* he deserves his last name to be spelled correctly.

[@smugmode]

@@callidusvulpes5556 Nnamssor

[@callidusvulpes5556]

@@smugmode You misspelled it backwards! lol. Edit: It has been fixed noice.

[@mikebutler9332]

"It's not a universal constant." "It's not like gravity." Physicist here, can confirm, FPS is not those things. Imagine if it was a universal constant? You could throw in any old GPU and get maximum FPS. What a world that would be...

[@CromulentEmbiggening]

Bruh c = ℏ = 1

[@danieltatar7575]

@@CromulentEmbiggening I found the particle physicist. Get him, boys!

[@mikebutler9332]

@@CromulentEmbiggening Get your natural units out of here! *shoo*

[@codynoyes]

LMAO, amazing

[@ValentineC137]

Would you press the button if FPS became a universal constant but It's 58

[@HeirJordan22]

"I don't know a polite way to say DUH" LOL. Stealing this for daily use.

[@piercewilson1258]

This should be the next GN shirt!

[@Exenna]

My partner and I absolutely love your content and how transparent it is. I am an economist and I am used to a give and interpret data. The person criticising your work is just an idiot displaying arrogantly his little knowledge and trying to bring you and your team down. Your KZbin videos are not a thesis and it is not what people are expecting from any video. We are all getting what (or even more) we are searching for : a very clear, transparent analysis. It helps us a lot to chose what to buy. My knowledge in computers has improved so much thanks to you. Continue the good work and thank you for your videos.

[@gnsteve8846]

Thanks for the support. The user didn't necessarily seem like an idiot and seems like they know stats, but perhaps applied that knowledge in a way which isn't particularly suitable for what we produce. Agreed with you that we're producing product reviews, not research for publication in scientific journals. It's always hugely encouraging to hear when someone has learned something from our content -- thanks for saying that, and much respect to being an economist! That kind of work is beyond my abilities!

[@8lec_R]

@@gnsteve8846 there's a golden phrase for this, that I absolutely love to use: The Dunning Kruger effect

[@Poppedcollar]

I just don't understand what that person was even looking for. Everything being discussed is purely academic and has absolutely no impact of purchasing decisions. That subreddit in general has that distinctly college kid vibe of "I've started learning this and want to discuss it despite having no real world application" that so much of reddit has.

[@realGeobor]

This video was great but I'd recommend staying off of Reddit for the sake of your mental health

[@plazasta]

I spend way too much time on Reddit and I agree

[@Eins3467]

Big subreddits suck so bad. Small ones with only few people dedicated to a certain niche is not that stupid tho.

[@dannyfranco199]

@@Eins3467 for real. You get downvoted to hell for any logic or kindness brought to the table, It’s ridiculous.

[@dannyfranco199]

My favorite is when people take the time to slide into your DM’s to say something that would net them bad karma on the thread lol. I stay away from Reddit, Facebook, and Twitter as if they were all the same entity.

[@morzinbo]

@@Eins3467 that's mostly true until one moron links to a small subreddit from a big one.

[@k1dkerr1gan]

Unscripted Steve.. my favourite kind of Steve :)

[@TheGerudan]

14:28 It is actually a 100% improvement going from B (50 FPS) to A (100 FPS). /SCNR ;)

[@gnsteve8846]

lol, too angry to do math properly. Sorry. That was stupid of me.

[@pino_de_vogel]

@@gnsteve8846 it happens. atleast you admid and correct it instead of some that just take the video offline. Keep up the good work. This is my go to source for data.

[@SubTract04]

This is a bit mind boggling for me. I find myself often thinking "Steve you don't need to clarify this is every video" now I see why you do.

[@finschii]

It's not the raw data from userbenchmark, which by the way is banned from both r/AMD and r/intel, it's their "stange" interpretaion of the data they collect.

[@t_z1030]

And the way their "interpretation" changes to get the result the site owner wants. AMD doing better in multi core? Lets weight single core performance more heavily so Intel continues to win the "effective speed" metric I made up and display more prominently than any other. Oh, AMD is doing better in single core now too? Better weight memory latency higher to make sure Intel wins my made up score again. Not to mention the "user ratings" scores are either botted or outright edited in the backend by the site owner

[@kylehutto8044]

Yeah its fine if you just want to know how your CPU is performing relative to others with the same CPU Just don't use it to decide what to buy.

[@Slimmeyy]

Don't think AMD outright banned UBM, it just has a bot telling everyone that mentions UBM that it's an awful source for objective information

[@supertoasting1011]

Go ahead and say it. Userbenchmark is trash. Everybody already knows. Anyways I read through that comment and it is BS. Keep up your good work, Steve and the GN team.

[@KokoroKatsura]

that shows you're amd shill

[@junko4166]

@@KokoroKatsuraA quick google search will show you that Intel users despise their shitty methodology just as much as AMD "shills" do.

[@dustojnikhummer]

@@KokoroKatsura r/Intel and r/Nvidia banned Userbenchmark. r/amd just comments on any link with it. Why are we AMD shills again?

[@Shyvorix]

@@dustojnikhummer Literally almost if not everyone has banned it because userbenchmarks has PROVEN that they will forever favor Intel no matter how good AMD is even if they are crushing Intel (which, news flash, they are. Every good benchmarking site and youtuber under the sun has shown and proven it). It's on the wall for everyone to see. It throws all credibility out the window.

[@dustojnikhummer]

@@Shyvorix yeah i know, unfortunately there are many people who still think they are credible

[@slateslavens]

for the person who wrote that reddit piece: the interesting thing about those 'differences is manufacturing' is that the industry considers it important enough that they gave it a name: It's called 'tolerance'. It's this: It's the amount of variation from part to part that you as a manufacturer are willing to accept. Smaller tolerance ranges are more expensive because the cost of the machines, input materials, prototypes, etc goes up as you push for 'tighter' tolerances. In the world of silicon, because of the nature of defects in produced chips and other factors, the process of sorting the product based on it's quality vs a perfect part is called _binning._ The various models of CPUs in a given family (or part thereof) and the availability of each, as measured by raw stock produced, varies not because they made more or less of any given part, but because of 'tolerance'. _They were all produced to be the very same part._ The difference between them is _the silicon lottery._ For any given monolithic CPU, for example, the number of cores is dependent on how many of them were perfectly produced on the wafer. If every CPU on a given wafer was designed with eight cores, the particular wafer may yield anything from a completely useless CPU to a perfectly functional unit with eight cores. Some may have several bad cores, the wafer may yield usable CPUs with anywhere from 4 to eight cores. This yield will be further divided by how fast each individual CPU can be reliably and consistently pushed vs the speeds and core counts of the models of that processor. Up nearer the end user, _winning the silicon lottery_ is essentially ending up with a part that just missed the _binning_ cutoff for the next better model. So to wrap this up, the variation in silicon from card to card you describe has been completely taken care of by the manufacturer. For CPUs, they sort these varied parts by core count, speed, wattage for a given speed, etc to end up with a line of distinct products. The only difference in GPUs is that they're sorting on different criteria. Your only real 'variance' at that point is getting a part that was _almost_ a better part. [edited for spelling, grammar, and my own stupidity.] P.S. oh. and here's an example of possible constructive criticism: "Steve, I liked the whodamawhatsit photography you did with the air density wave thing, but because it's a new thing for the channel and difficult to figure out how we should interpret it, you might consider releasing it as a standalone video."

[@Miszkaaaaa]

I am an IT specialist, building computers for family/myself from child days, have finished econometrics bachelor’s degree and computer science master’s degree with an engineer title. What I can say is that Gamer's Nexus (including Steve of course) is a very viable source of information and I feel confident that the proper statistics laws are embedded into methodology of testing. Every test goes through an effort to lower the variance as low as possible, includes a good introductory information about the method how the test will be concluded and if there any caveats they are mentioned at the beggining. For me basically the rant of this user is an example of a person who would like to show off with his skills and use his knowledge to actually hurt GN just because he has an agenda to do it. It seems that he is not following his own methodology and is lacking inquisitiveness to provide full picture. The user is cherry picking information from the video reviews... skipping the vital information about methodology and tests just to prove his points in which case he is undermining himself. I do not know why I am writing this but just wanted to say I love what GN is doing and how it is fighting for its credibility when challenged even by mischievous people on the internet. This really gives me hope in humanity but also it is a lot of fun!

[@RobBCactive]

You wrote it (IMO) because you care about facts and are sick of people blowing smoke by cherry picking what suits their agenda ignoring other evidence

[@jonathane9403]

When you quoted the line '..should work harder... ' I actually laughed out loud. For that person to say that you and your team should work harder shows that they do not watch your channel very much at all.

[@chiciu]

I literally got mad. That pissed me off waaaaay more than it should have since I have no skin in the game.

[@Skylancer727]

LOL defending Userbenchmark. They literally just rated 4 of the 10 series Intel chips as more powerful than the 5950x including a quadcore even though the 5950x beat all of them if ever single benchmark. Like seriously. Especially after they made the claim with the last generation that core count doesn't matter and single core performance is all that matters, but now that AMD is winning at that too well they just gave Intel the win because "we think it will be harder for you to get one". The 10900K has been basically sold out since launch and selling for $100 over MSRP. How is that a better deal especially when it loses? I will say their frame rates and benchmark scores tend to be fine but their scoring for parts and comparison system are dreadfully terrible.

[@zig131]

Yeah the problem with UserBenchmark isn't so much the raw benchmarks but the garbage editorial and the fishy "scores". I wouldn't trust the FPS scores simply because you're relying on the honesty and consistency of approach of users.

[@Superiorer]

UserBenchMark has a very easy and usefull tool to check your hardware and compare to others with exactly the same hardware. When the site starts to compare with other hardware its a complete lie.

[@callidusvulpes5556]

I look at it occasionally for the raw performance benchmarks, but avoid the other metrics.

[@carlangelo653]

Most of the data is fine, but the way they interpret the data as "scores" is just off.

[@arkdesign9517]

The scores are fucked because it includes absolutely useless categories like "market share" or "user rating" which heavily weight the total score. Amd is better than intel, but because of OEMs, much more people use intel than amd, which is why you still see intels as the top bloody 10 in there. It has fuck all to do with "shilling", in fact, in the last 3 years amd paid so many shills it's fucking sad, 90% of youtube reviewers are holding a bag for amd. The website is ok, it just takes a bit more reading that watching what the top list is and assuming they're shilling for intel is stupid. Stop talking about prices and value, prices differ too much from town to town or country to country and the concept of "value" is completely subjective. Some people think value is saving money, others think it's longevity, others think it's performance. I can buy intels now with more cores for cheaper than amd, does that mean amd is less value? Jesus, let people buy and be happy about whatever the fuck they buy. When you come in shouting amd is the better deal you sound like the shills you're trying to discredit. For me, personally, amd almost destroyed my business, I won't buy their hardware if they paid me to. Who are you to tell me what the better deal is when you know nothing about the circumstances that almost allowed amd to fuck me over for thousands of pounds? See where I'm getting at? The better deal is what you can afford, not intel or amd, or nvidia or whatever. They can suck a dick

[@MadRC]

There is no one who has stood up more for the PC consumer against manufactures than Steve and GN. Steve has also been very on the side of creators who are getting bullied by manufactures and fighting back while risking comeback on GN. They are the highest standard for transparency and ethical standards for both reporting and reviewing products. Fantastic response Steve and simply don't worry about it. If people think they can do better then start a channel and provide the content and let everyone complain about your methods. As for the "working harder" - wow, I won't use the language I want to but man that guy clearly can't follow along as he would realise that simply not possible. Steve - Stay safe man and thank you for all you do, its great, its better than the rest.

[@blackmennewstyle]

It took me a couple of minutes before figuring out that we were not on the main channel, on his channel, somehow, i always expect to see him ride a bike while talking lol Have a great weekend Steve

[@EliteProductions3129]

I thought this was the main Channel until I read your comment and checked. And I'm 90% though the video lol

[@simoSLJ89]

Me too. I finished the video and I saw the pinned comment from GNSteve about percent change, and I realized it wasn't the main channel.

[@micobugija6284]

Same here 🤣

[@Kossmok]

Mom, can we get ask GN? Son, se have ask GN at home. Ask GN at home:

[@carnsoaks1]

I bought my first merch from a KZbinr this quarter, from GAMERS NEXUS. After watching YT for +12 yr, YOU ARE THE FIRST TO TEMPT ME TO CHIP IN, kudos I place you on par with HANK GREEN. You are always improving.

[@gnsteve8846]

Wow! Thanks! If you ever need help with your merch order, please don't hesitate to email support at gamersnexus (it's a net address). Thanks for your support!

[@CompuBrains27]

Steve, just want you to know your transparency is one of the things a lot of us appreciate about you! The haters are in the minority, they're just louder than the rest of us (sadly).

[@Leonsimages]

7:56 "the source data here is garbage" I had to laugh cause literally in the first statistics lecture I ever had to professor ranted for about half an hour about the "garbage in - garbage out" phenomenon which basically says that if your method of collecting data is BS, the result after analysis will be garbage no matter what you do with it.

[@romxxii]

GIGO used to be one of the first things they taught in Computer Science, so many decades ago.

[@RobBCactive]

@@romxxii Funnily enough, once I had a bug in my program which I found no viable solution for, it involved a track with an offset. Then it dawned on me that if I redefined my data to a centre line with a width that it worked perfectly. It was spooky but valid

[@BlitzShott]

There’s a reason why reddit isn’t taken seriously, they’re so fickle and ready to upvote misinformation if it fits their narrative. Thanks for the content Steve.

[@toaster_bloke9999]

Okay but seriously, you're really going to make a comment like that in the KZbin comment section of all places? Though what you mentioned is a bad trait seen in many things involving humans anyway, and seems especially widespread on the internet.

[@RAW_Reality]

@@toaster_bloke9999 Though I'd be surprised if you've heard of him, two tracks I'd suggest you look up from comedian Chris Porter would be "Stupid on a loop" and "All kinds of smart". They'll provide some context.

[@supercaillou1474]

@@toaster_bloke9999 What reddit gets criticized for, is prevalent in most forums/social media and even real life. Yes it has its problems, but in my opinion you can't really remove them and it's mostly human nature.

[@tward90]

Steve, I remember reading through the Reddit thread and being completely bewildered by the post and the user's responses. I'm glad you recognise the bigger you get, the more potshots people will take. It's a sign of success and I hope you're able to focus on that fact rather than let it get you. I'm astounded at how many hours you're pouring into GN, I shouldn't be surprised but you make a lot of fairly heavy subjects or information really digestible. It's helped me be enthused about tech again (what a time for it too) but also allow some of my more casual friends on their journey towards becoming enthusiasts. I can only imagine how irritating stuff like this can get but it doesn't change the fact you're not just doing good work, but something worthwhile. I first started watching when you had a series of videos discussing strange benchmark results and you tried to assist the company in adopting better practices. That dedication alongside you're integrity is why I started watching the channel - you're one of the few true tech journalists I know of and it's why I trust you. Not because you won't make mistakes but that you care enough to correct them and grow from it. I really believe your honesty, dedication and communication has allowed you to foster an audience that not only values these things but understands what you're trying to do and wants to join you on that journey. Focus on the positive, take what you can from the negative but otherwise keep doing what you're doing.

[@ampinstein]

Most of it seemed like genuine misunderstanding of GN until the "must work harder" bs. That's just straight up trolling. Hardest working bastards on the internet \m/

[@dryphtyr]

I read that "essay" the other day & my eyes rolled so hard, I sprained them. Keep on keeping on, Steve-o

[@ssl3546]

It's so gratifying to see you make the same points I did against this clown, sorry you got your dander up over him. Don't let the bastards grind you down.

[@ellipsis373]

Ah yes, the sloppy channel well known for error filled, lazy and poorly made content, gamersnexus. Now that's a take, albeit not a good one. Sad that you have to take time to address this, sucks that you're working this hard for it to be so poorly interpreted. Cheers Steve for addressing this so professionally, and good luck with the upcoming launches.

[@TheJoel0096]

Reddit user: *makes post full of logical fallacies* Steve: "I'm about to end this man's whole career"

[@Seanweekhaizhen]

found the user www.reddit.com/user/IPlayAnIslandAndPass/

[@garretthart4883]

GN is the one full of logical fallacies. His whole video was just a toxic reply to the reddit thread and dissing the user. GN claims to want constructive criticism and is always striving to do better. But, then he makes a 40 minute video about how responding someone with genuine feedback is a waste of time.

[@coriae]

@@Seanweekhaizhen witchhunting is bad

[@garretthart4883]

@@Seanweekhaizhen people like you are the reason this user had to delete his post out of being harassed

[@somethinglikethat2176]

@@garretthart4883 no constructive criticism ever involved paying more attention to User Benchmarks.

[@hemmoau]

This whole video, and most of the idiocy on reddit is entirely explained by the Dunning-Kruger effect, the less you know, the more you think you know.

[@tek_lynx4225]

Never heard of this userbenchmark, just checked it out, and describing it as Garbage is correct.

[@logwhitley]

New channel, "Steve Rants"

[@shaneeslick]

I going to have to put a Rant on Reddit because I am disappointed Steve wasn't Doing a Downhill Bike Run like normal in his Rants, the Quality of content here is just so unpredictable 🤣

[@CharlesHydronium]

that'd be something i'd sub to for sure xd

[@joeykeilholz925]

See also: Gamers Nexus

[@garywanamaker2602]

Gamers ReksUs

[@bigal2688]

Awe, Come on Steve!! We all Need more of these, "Fire side Chats about Reddit, With Steve!" Think you need to work on Creating an Actually "Fire Side Chat Scene" though!! 🔥🪑🚽🧻😜🤣

[@gnsteve8846]

haha, they're so stressful to produce, though!

[@bigal2688]

@@gnsteve8846 yea, don't blame you for not/ hoping that you don't need to do anymore! Seems there are some people out there that Really need to get there OCD under Control! 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️😎

[@TSM-TSM]

​ @GNSteve you should don a Blood Pressure/Heart Rate cuff and the start of filming such responses and then you can analyse the date you receive and rate the performance of each Redit 'expert'' critic!

[@tylersmith261]

This actually hurt to listen to. The reddit Hivemind mentality of "this post seems well put together so it must be right" is a serious detriment to so many communities. Keep doing what you guys are doing Steve, I love seeing your testing methodology videos

[@evilbred974]

Userbenchmark's actual benchmark system is fine. It's a convienent system that makes it easy for alot of users to run a benchmark that gets collected for analysis. The problem is Userbenchmark's outrageously biased analysis, from their actual narratives to even how they weight each datapoint (like how multi-threading has progressively gotten less weighting over the last 5 years while software has been progressively better able to use it). Now if you look at their Ryzen 5000 series, it seems the only reason they are ranking lower is due to a category called "value and sentiment" in which the older Intel CPU's greater marketshare is pushing it above the 5900X. It's hilarious, bizarre, and sad the progressively more extreme mental gymnastics Userbenchmark is having to contort itself in to spin a win for Intel.

[@sirmonkey1985]

they're intel sponsored, there's a reason for it.

[@popifrex1993]

As a worker in an electronics repair shop I can confirm that people do not use their brains nor read anything. They will knowingly ignore any advice you give them and get mad when whatever they did breaks things and then outright lie just to not admit that they fucked it up. It's incredible

[@thepolticalone961]

Steve dunking on these fools. S tier content

[@ericcartman5722]

Complain about mirror imaging in point one, defend userbenchmarks in the 2nd Hello userbenchmarks writter?

[@MazeFrame]

The guy who wrote that reddit blurb used yourlogicalfallacyis as a bingo card.

[@directmiss]

"I am just disappointed in general" is such a mood.

[@dlhorne42]

This has been my mood more and more often lately...

[@MarioCRO]

When you get critiqued like that, even when the one doing the critique article is objectively wrong, you know that you are making an impact on the community. Keep up the good work GN, topics you cover with the level of detail you provide is important to us all. Reaching 1M subscribers while holding on to integrity and financial independence is something lots of other tech tubers can not say.

[@thorscape3879]

This is like watching a repeat of Buildzoid's recent comments response to memory ranks.

[@upmytube07]

that poster is the rich kid in the bar scene from Good Will Hunting...GN response "how you like them apples"

[@ultra_code_]

Steve, you're being too honest and reasonable here. I can't support you. Unsubbed. Unfollowed. Hated. :P

[@patricknolan1625]

Okay...THAT made me laugh. Thanks. 🤣

[@simoSLJ89]

33:40 I'd like to know these conspiracies theories! Because the post was in fact weird. It wasn't "ignorant", of a person who doesn't know just anything. It was like he knew he was writing false things, but writing them to sound smart and confuse the readers.

[@tigerpjm]

Dude, you're the most trustworthy reviewer of what appears to be a large talent pool of trustworthy, knowledgeable, honest and decent KZbinrs covering tech. You and your well known colleagues do a great job, and you're the most thorough of all of them. So when you say that you are frequently disappointed with yourself, I believe you. Which is why I keep watching. I don't recall ever noticing any glaring errors in the many hundreds of hours of watching your channel. If I was to notice something incorrect or unfounded, I'd assume it was an honest error because thats the trust you've earned from your audience and, honestly, who doesn't make mistakes sometimes? You're the one with your reputation on the line with every show. Some bum on reddit just wants to show how clever they are. Who cares. If they were right (which they don't appear to have been), so what? What did they have at stake? 75 likes? There's a lot of content between a few likes and a million subscribers. I reckon you'd have a bit more knowledge about what it is - other than your undeniable sex appeal.

[@trevalyon8610]

I know this video is old, but I stumbled across it while just looking at loads of videos from loads of channels to help me make decisions on a couple of systems I was building. You sound really frustrated and exasperated, and I wanted to stop and tell you how much I enjoy your channel. Seeing a scathing review of a "seemingly solid looking product" has always encouraged me to check out other reviewers' opinion of the same product and I've discovered a lot of great creators, just confirming the great work you've done. Thank you! I hope you're in a much better place today and I'm looking forward to everything this channel/community puts forward :)

[@infango]

Steve what with AMD Bike ? you have the technology you have the knowledge you can rebuild it make it faster stronger with RGB and 20% bigger ips efficiency .. ( seriously it would be nice to see the bake total dissmental and analis :p )

[@sirebellum0]

29:36 I thought Steve was about to flip a table when he read "working harder" lol Reddit: Work harder Steve: work harder? Work Harder!? *WORK HARDER!!!!!??*

[@olevolbracht9107]

"It's not a Universal Constant like Gravity." Allow me to introduce you to Relativity!

[@NefariousHostility]

I know this is old now, but I just wanted to leave a comment to say I appreciate the GN team and all you do. I'm a linux engineer/sys admin, used to be into hardware quite a bit. GN and a select few others have reignited my interest in hardware....along with helping me with my latest pc build. I've also started working on my server rack again and my old servers and NAS. I haven't had this much fun with computers since I was a much younger me trying to figure out why the 80486 system wouldn't boot. I'm relatively new to your channels, so again my apologies for jumping on old videos here....just watching them as I see them. Thanks again for all you do.

[@submijiru]

If Steve works any harder, we patreons need to stage an intervention and force on him 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep.

[@StoutStreetStudiosNZ]

"There are flaws in our approach and everyone else's approach and what we do as we grow and over the years we've grown is to sort of figure those out as you're going and sometimes you're just like oh crap this doesn't work out the way I thought it would and we fix it, it's piece by piece " This is for real some wholesome life advice

[@vaguedirector_7342]

Here we go lads this'll be good

[@Kriae]

My theory is that Steve made the guy behind userbenchmark mad

[@angerthosenear_yt]

I can't believe you only work 100hrs a week to give us all this inaccurate, deceptive content. If only you worked 168hrs a week would we get the amazing content that we really deserve. As for the Schlieren stuff, I enjoyed watching you try new tech and methods, I'm sure I don't have to say to not let people like that prevent you from testing other tech in the future! Love your content Steve and GN crew, keep up the awesome work! Remember to go sleep sometime.

[@EminemLovesGrapes]

I kind of get salty every time I see a comment on your video that says something along the lines of "TL;DR" or "Can I ask a question that got answered in the video?". It's just not the nature of your content to sacrifice detail in order to make the video more digestible for the mainstream audience. I don't mind answering comments by using data in a video, like your AIO mounting guide but sometimes I just think "you're about to spend a lot of money on a AIO, why is watching a 30min video so difficult?" But a part of me can also get it. There's a lot of information in some videos and sometimes it just isn't cordoned off very well in terms of presenting the information from a broad perspective to a detailed explanation. And to someone who's new it can be quite overwhelming.

[@mattyb5308]

GN Steve: I doubt anyone has done 1000 benchmarks on the same hardware. Hardware Unboxed Steve has entered the chat

[@beowulfschmidt6031]

The very fact that you are willing to recognize and address your own shortcomings (perceived, imagined, or actual) is one of the reasons I keep watching you. You've been the absolute most helpful tech channel I've ever watched. You combine technical expertise with an attempt to make sometimes very esoteric and arcane material understandable to a wider audience. To whatever extent you don't live up to your own standards, you do your best to mitigate and improve. I've been doing software development and support for 30 years, and while there are some people who say that I'm pretty good at "dumbing down" the technical stuff, this crap ain't always easy to make understandable to people for whom computers have become a commodity item, i.e. almost everyone outside the hardware and software industry. I commend you for your transparency, even in the face of people who try to use it against you.

[@Katastra_]

29:39 Wow. Just.. wow.

[@PBLKJeff]

Steve be like "I can hate me more than you can hate me"

[@BryceAC]

I've only watched the first 28 seconds, I'm outraged.

[@TechTechPotato]

To add to Steve's comments. Some users complain if 100% of the benchmarks that a review site runs isn't applicable to them directly - why did you run XYZ you should have run ABC etc. Not everything you read has to be relevant to your use case - Use the data that means most to you. The world is more than just you.

[@dchalmers47]

"5600X vs 9600K" "they're the same picture" *Surprised Pikachu face*

[@andruloni]

or was it 5900x?

[@justsomeitweeb]

Steve, the user couldn't specify the terrible "benchmarking" site because it's so bad that discussions of it were banned on most hardware subreddits.

[@errorcode503]

Ahhhh! Reading Reddit and uploading on the smaller second channel instead of reviews for the main channel! What a nice way to waste time to give us some more nice Steve Burke content.

[@FuncleChuck]

My alerts didn’t work for a few weeks there, and I missed this one. Testing, and designing testing, is my whole career- I work with electronics, acoustics, medical devices... your method and your results are incredibly valuable to the community. There is almost never a simple answer to a worthy question, and every new innovation requires evaluation of your test methods. Thank you so much for what you do.

[@joshuarevanth7489]

I learned a lot from GN, found the videos educative and still keep learning from them. Appreciate their effort behind each video.

[@matthewhafner962]

The power to attack is sinister. Like filing frivolous lawsuits, the defender is *forced* to spend lots of time and resources just to make sure they're above board, whereas the attacker can slap together their attack with minimal effort.

[@L4rk3s]

29:45 Wait what??? 100h weeks??? That's 14+h a day if you work 7 days a week Jeez man, those are inhuman levels of commitment, and I've been complaining when I hit 15h of work on university classes and studying in a single day... I'm just amazed that that kind of a lifestyle is sustainable at all on a mental fortitude level I could never keep up a tempo like that more than a week maybe before I would just completely burn out

[@gnsteve8846]

Trying to slow down a bit next year just to make sure health stays in check. It'll mostly be a matter of staffing and process optimization. It's hard to back off the throttle when your foot has been glued to it for so long, though!

[@L4rk3s]

@@gnsteve8846 I realize how hard it is to break out of that circle of overworking. Pretty easy to forget to just take the time to cool off a bit. But the health cost of doing that in the long run can be serious(hoping it doesn't come to that). I'm sure you guys will find a way to deliver some of the highest quality content in the community without such, to a lack of a better word, insane schedule. Really appreaciate all of the work that goes in to the channel, the dedication is unparalled. Keep up the good work, and greetings from Serbia!

[@ellipsis373]

Steve's mentioned in comments before that he's been doing this for over a month to keep up with benchmarks. No clue how he does it, but hopefully he'll get some rest soon.

[@L4rk3s]

@@ellipsis373 I missed that fact, not sure if it was mentioned in a video and I just didn't catch it, but I found even greater respect for him after hearing that.

[@Stedman75]

holy shit imagine saying to steve "just work harder" .. haha, holy moly dude.

[@chiciu]

That made me so mad like someone insulted my wife. Very strange that I took it so hard.

[@RngmonsterX]

So.. Hardware subreddits are full of stoned people who try to trash talk everyone.. and are losers. I got it now. :D Awesome video on the side channel ♥

[@KayJay01]

As a person who frequents r/hardware often, please don't bunch the rest of us with the OP of that thread. It got slammed pretty heavily in the comments, and most of us disagreed with their thread. Why it got so many upvotes I'm not sure of, but most of us don't want to be associated with people like that.

[@ZenMuff1n]

So if I come to your neighborhood and find a junkie, I can make a legit conclusion, that that street is full of crackheads and nobody decent living there? Please don't confuse the message of this video with some sort of call to bigotry.

[@RngmonsterX]

@@ZenMuff1n it's the same when people say "X is better than Y".. you always take it with a grain of salt. But yes, you could say that. Because i wouldn't care. And it's not a secret that especially AMD Subreddits are full of cringe, weird and stupid people that lost their path to reality. It's not THAT bad in Nvidia and Intel subreddits. Maybe one reason is AMD itself since their marketing guys are also cringe most of the time..

[@wayward03]

@@KayJay01 reddit is kinda that way, sorry. Doesn't matter how many sane rational people are there if the asinine stuff is upvoted to the top.

[@KayJay01]

@@wayward03 I suppose that's true

[@stompreaper]

Steve, I appreciate the methodology and rigor you apply. I definitely appreciate your transparency. Don’t let rando internet people knock your confidence in what your viewers take away from the reviews. You are knocking it out of the park with your approach.

[@mattmixell554]

This to me sounds like the “I have a college degree in this there for I know more than you”. The old college educated vs. work experience argument.

[@snactimusmaximus]

Even worse, it reads like something a freshman would write.

[@thepgo666]

The face Steve makes to the "Work Harder" comment is pretty close to the meme of linus_considering_retirement.jpg

[@strat0caster124]

The word "Doctrinairism" keeps coming to me when I was watching this video.

[@liamely802]

Hey, Steve - I know you tend to read comments so I'm going to put this here with the hope it's one that you read. You do an excellent job of breaking down the capabilities of hardware across the board in a way that's transparent, easy to digest, and thorough, more thorough than I've seen anyone be regarding hardware. You ARE the standard, in my eyes, of combining the scientific method with the computing industry. You and your team working tirelessly to provide us with high quality data has allowed at the very least myself to make what I believe are intelligent decisions regarding hardware purchasing, both for myself and the people that very occasionally come to me asking advice. Don't let an MSI shill posing as a footsoldier in le reddit army get you down, we all know you're hard enough on yourself as it is. ;) While I'm typing this out - sleep more, dude. See if you can crowdsource analysis or monitoring of benchmarks! You need sleep and I imagine many members of the community that follow you would leap at the chance to get involved with the high quality analyses you crank out, myself included. That being said, I can see why you might hesitate at the thought... I don't know, I just don't want to see you burnt out. To put a bow on it - thanks for all the hard work you and your team do, Steve.

[@conza1989]

Appreciate uploading this and agree better location, I'm subbed to both so still saw it. How we discuss and research is really important, and we all make mistakes and can learn, so thanks for this (yes I'm still watching as I comment)

[@butterfingersman]

'i dont have a polite way to say duh' was the moment i really thought you were about to drop a 'yeah, no shit!'

[@mattfactor5278]

who is even taking userbenchmark seriously? we all know that they are full of crap.

[@Skylancer727]

Their scores on a benchmark are fine but their part scoring and rating systems are terrible. Hell it says the 10400K is superior to the 5950x, even though the 5950x beat it in everything! And they used the "value" argument for that score but if that was true, why is the the 5950x the highest rated Zen 3 CPU?

[@mattfactor5278]

@@Skylancer727 i agree whit you, but for us who know this stuff is funny but if you are first time builder and se that rating you are at least confused. and the "bottleneck" stuff is hilarious at best.

[@christiann6350]

I think the only way one can take it seriously is to see if their pc is performing as expected and identify if a component is not running properly or something like that. Otherwise yeah, full of crap

[@Aggrofool]

r/hardware apparently, since they heavily upvoted that reddit post.

[@Seanweekhaizhen]

This guy apparently www.reddit.com/user/IPlayAnIslandAndPass/

[@willernst8376]

I like this. That guy on redit had no idea what he was talking about, yet acted as if he was all knowing. That happens in so many things in life, and the only thing you can do it try to set the record straight, but it is a losing battle.

[@Aggrofool]

Why did r/hardware heavily upvote that reddit post?

[@wayward03]

@@ShogoKawada123 a couple generations of not teaching logic and reasoning, coupled with the societal pressure to not call people out of their bullshit.

[@blackjack-ge3wt]

There is a saying that goes "only trust the statistics you faked by yourself". The fact that this guy cherrypicked errors from your videos instead of reviewing the entire sample size (all of you videos/testing) already proves that he is biased towards his "testing" and thus not trustworthy. Keep up your awesome work steve.

[@MrNside]

That post as a whole is trying to bolster UserBenchmarks as a superior place to find hardware comparison data. I always found it funny to point out the "poisoned well" aspect of userbenchmarks, but to take that saying even further, and point out the leaky bucket, the rope that keeps snapping, and the person raising what water they can always telling you their well water is superior... Userbenchmark is a culmination of bad ideas about how to extrapolate a conclusion from bad data. And yes, it is proven bad data. 1st, it's a single benchmark program. That alone should have you seeking multiple other sources at the very least. However, that's not even the worst part. Userbenchmark is the wild-west of data aggregation. Often, you will see either a really obscure, rare, or new CPU get wildly different scores from user to user, and that points out their biggest problem with their data. There's nothing controlling how that CPU is being benchmarked. This can especially be seen in some Xeon/Epyc processors on that site that don't have a lot of scores. At best, the hardware configuration will be different, at worst, people are uploading scores testing just a few cores of a multiple-core CPU, or testing a virtual machine, or testing while running Prime 95 in the background... etc... The data on that site is almost useless, and I have pointed this out for many years now. The only reason I say "almost" is because if it were collected and presented differently, it would be useful like any other single benchmark. The ego and false-claims from that website (and their shills, like that reddit user) make it useless as a review site though. The editorial parts of the site are so blatantly biased and often contradictory, you have to wonder what their end-game is. You will see people who write reviews for that site openly criticize AMD for pushing more CPU cores, while at the same time praising intel for following suit. The editorial reviews have also (for the last few years) ignored anything except gaming, despite their own benchmark program supposedly being an "all-round" benchmarking tool. They will toss token praise at AMD's low-end parts when it comes to IPC improvements, but pretend there's no reason anyone would need/want their high-end parts. At the end of the day though, if you ask anyone on their editorial staff, an Intel Pentium is a better buy than anything in AMD'S lineup. Their main page has (had) a blatant jab at AMD, talking about "moar corez" or something. That was a year ago or so. Yet they want you to believe that they are unbiased. Even if what they say about multiple cores is true (which it often isn't) they ignore the fact that software isn't written for future hardware, it's written for existing hardware. New hardware has to exist, and become fairly widespread before most developers spend a year or two (or more when it comes to enterprise) writing software or games for it. In other words, we have just started to see developers utilize more than 2 cores in a PC, and it's only going to get more common now that AMD has risen that particular bar. I really don't understand what their story is. Rumor has it that they are funded by a company that is mostly owned by intel. I didn't bother digging in to that aspect, since their content shouldn't be taken seriously regardless of their actual affiliation, if any. My guess is that they really just want to be taken seriously, and they feel the need to double-down on their biases from 5 or 6 years ago in order to try and convince somebody that they're right.

[@pikaporeon]

Loved hearing the shout out to Scott Wasson - Spent years of my life visiting TR ands till lurk what's left of the forums

[@peterderbeste6817]

dont worry about it. there are some redditors who apparently know more about the zen architecture than amd itself, so...

[@MichaelPohoreski]

Ah, yes we must defer to the wisdom and knowledge of the _armchair expert._ /s :-)

[@avon001]

Dam some of those posts even triggered me, you did well to react calmly, Steve. Also coming from a mechanical testing background I've always related, appreciated and been somewhat shocked at how thorough your testing, data collection and presentation was. On top of the basics you frequently go above and beyond other similar content by researching and experimenting with new testing methods, in an attempt to give your viewers more perspective. Combine this with the occasional semi-pro level content such as in depth overclocking and your in docu-probes in manufacturing facilities to help the average user get a more technical understanding of how their parts are made, and work. It's a lot of effort and doesn't go unnoticed, many of us just quietly appreciate. Thank you for going to the time and effort to keep your viewers properly informed.

[@altair5001]

I recall a couple of months ago where a duded told me that GN is providing false information to the people and he quoted to me about the video they made regarding the "AIO video", and told me that changing the orientation of the rad and placement will not change anything and temperature will be the same. And asked that dude if what you are claiming is true then provide a video and told me he don't need to provide a proof no need for research. There are a lot of people who will always find a way to attack a certain person or their work to provide information that is beneficial to us, I also follow other reviewers and as what Steve mentioned that make an image of it on each reviews which had help me a lot when it comes to building computers and choosing the components for their usage. For me just keep up the great work for providing us the data and information for newer hardware's coming out.

[@thane_snipes]

The arrogance of some of these people is palpable. I'd just like to say thanks for all the hard work you guys do, I think you've been a major player in terms of setting the bar for testing methodology, viewer transparency and supporting the consumer above all else in the PC hardware review space, and I don't see how you could possibly do better than you do. You're committed to constantly improving and you recognize when previous methodology or conclusions have been lackluster. I don't see how anyone could possibly ask for more. Keep it up Steve, and the rest of the gang, you guys rock.

[@Redrios]

projection, what it looks like: the person is angry, insulted by your borderline recklessness lazy misinfo bouts, and It looks frank and he took the time to edit and so on, good ole obsessive type as he says it "fairly avid". He's Tilting at windmills. Projection, more likely than not

[@Teh-Penguin]

That reddit post is a prime example of the Dunning Kruger Effect.

[@bengrogan9710]

Even as a long term watcher I think many of us would benefit from a video of "What can you take away from this" as some of the testing you do is obviously in-depth and very time consuming but doesn't seem to tell you much that is actionable from a buyers PoV. For example with frame-time plots, I understand that they show the 0.1% lows comparative to each other in a more objective sense than the charts as we're looking at an absolute unit rather than the extrapolated concept of FPS but beyond showing me that it spikes harder I can't see what new information it's showing me that the bar charts if you where just to say how hard that spike was but it doesn't give me any idea why a spike occurred. For example in the side by side comparisons of AMD vs Nvidia GPUs if one spikes at a slightly different point I can't see what was going on to question to myself WHY it was different? Example was the spike on card 1 caused by the particle effects of an explosion? was the same spike a few dozen frames later on the other card caused by the physics calculations of the explosion debris? This then becomes useful as it can give ideas to reduce the effect eg card one might not spike as hard if i lower particle density vs card 2 more from less collide-able object interactions

[@nyana.]

Holy shit, Steve! I really appreciate you doing this video and explaining to viewers a lot of statistics concepts. It is admirable that you did 1000 experiment repetitions for each setup. That is most likely more than enough data to get a probability distribution and to report uncertainty of your measurements. As for the sampling error comment, no actual statistician/ data science person would comment that. It is a given that when you cannot test the WHOLE population of devices you will have sampling error, there is NO avoiding sampling error. Whether the device you test is representative of the whole population of devices, that is something you cannot control, and the solution is, as you explained, to look at data that other reviewers report which is obtained using other devices from that population. Finally, it is the manufacturer's duty to produce devices that are as similar to eachother as possible, and if all reviewers had the same methodology for obtaining measurements, the average reported values should be very similar. Anyway, I am glad you are critical of your work and happy to see you are continuously improving your methodology :)

[@mrgreengns]

Love you Steve and Gamer's Nexus crew(Patrick)! Your methodology is the reason I watch your channel. You make everything extremely clear and say which cases the data should be used for. If this person paid attention at all they would have nothing to say. Remember that you're over 1 million subscribers now so there will be new people that don't bother to watch the old videos where you explain more details about your methods. Keep doing what you do, the mountain biking videos are awesome and I love my GN bar mat 😁 Cheers!

[@HypnoticSuggestion]

This is what happens when you're a victim of the dunning-Kruger effect while also being the least hugged person who ever lived.