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About The Black Swan Group
Founded and led by former lead FBI hostage negotiator, Chris Voss, the Black Swan Group has 10+ years of experience working with companies and individuals on taking their negotiation skills to the next level. Chris’ book, Never Split the Difference, is a Wall Street Journal bestseller and has sold over 2 million copies worldwide. Our expert team of coaches discuss everything from silence techniques to influential empathy.
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Thanks for watching!

[@DerSpielfuehrer]

i understand that you cant get any lower on that Ferrari than 50%. And its a very good price, especially with the 20 inch rims. But my budget involves winter mats.

[@larryengelbrecht6704]

A lesson I learned about Tactical Empathy was something Henry Kissinger said, something like make sure you give something to someone before you take something away. This was the backbone of my years working as a doorman at a bar. When someone gets to the point where they have had enough to drink, I offer them a non-alcoholic beverage and then tell them they're welcome to stay as long as they like as long as they don't touch any more alcohol. When they do violate that, I feign that it's too noisy to understand them, motioning them to follow me outside. That's when I tell them they're more than welcome to come back the next day, but they can't come back in. Only three altercations in over eight years, and they were all tourists. None of the locals would do that because they always wanted to be able to come back. Always being nice and respectful but firm and fair when called for has always paid off big.

[@tomshaw8625]

Nice anecdote!

[@iunderstanphotography2780]

You are a gem

[@christopherwithers9019]

Well played, sir! A true gentleman and a very prudent professional. Doorman today yet I see the future GM. Wishing you well, sir.

[@trdfrguson007]

The idea behind negotiating is that you trade respect for money (or whatever tangible good you want). Respect costs nothing.

[@Blessed.2.Teach.4God]

*Validation is the currency we are all trading for...*

[@blacktortoise6812]

It costs hella goddamn time

[@toordog1753]

@@Blessed.2.Teach.4God speak for yourself

[@Blessed.2.Teach.4God]

@@toordog1753 Yes, that's what I did, thanks for your enlightening permission.

[@bradstudio]

This is the problem with online shopping, you don't get a chance to practice these skills.

[@xPumaFangx]

This is why you should never buy a car online. If the majority of people choose to not do something because its wrong. Will change the way a company works. The problem with that is that the majority of the people value ease.

[@mungox1]

you can do the same thing just in email. Might not be quite as effective but it isn't face to face where it is harder to keep up the facade.

[@1a357c]

Got to love how Chris uses mirroring and an upward inflection in his tone, throughout, to get Joe to offer more detail.

[@Insight2306]

This is golden! I’ve been immersing myself with every Chris Voss video for the past 2 weeks and I’m actually looking for a used car right now. This is so good! Thank you.

[@NegotiationMastery]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@iluvkittens101]

wow cant believed that worked. Ive re-listened to the audiobook never split the difference during my commute everyday. Hoping to memorize the book so I can remember what to do in these types of situations. thanks for the rundown on it. I'm gonna memorize this

[@jamesbarros950]

I now understand how I got my last car. I did exactly this, but because I really didn't have the money. Totally by accident, it worked for me.

[@harbournailsspa6034]

Thank you Chris for your time and knowledge, cheers to you both

[@meroe365]

I'm looking to create a group of guys to practice Voss' techniques, almost like improv comedy club. That's how impressed I am with his approach.

[@hzpc]

Sounds like an awesome idea!! Are you planning to do this online?

[@hzpc]

@Jayson Paglow I don't think so. Why don't we set up something for ourselves? I think there would be quite some interest for it. It could be done via Discord?

[@hzpc]

@Jayson Paglow Good that you've sent a new message! I did not get a new notification of your reply. I've noted your E-mail down and will send you a mail shortly.

[@salvatorefregapane5273]

Sign me up!

[@albertogarciahernandez7420]

Ya’ll still got some room?

[@northpole6060]

You guys are amazing ... Thank you . I am watching you from Jordan /Middle East .

[@NegotiationMastery]

Awesome! Spread the Black Swan method!

[@jsatko]

I am surprised that the salesman didn't automatically steer the customer away from talking about the price of the car. They usually want to discuss "monthly payments."

[@applejacks971]

The buyer coulda already told the sales guy that he wasn't financing.

[@Bobby_S.S.]

The salesman thought this was an honest, hardworking, decent guy who was misfortunate to afford the car he really needed (he probably reminded this salesman to some less fortunate family member). And, there you go ...

[@n8style]

That's actually amazing, instant subscriber

[@brandoncave-wynter6987]

This is absolutely golden.

[@ManMak6]

Yeah maybe this worked some time ago but there are lots of smart people out there too. Couple of years ago I was shopping for a car and tried to use this method. I went to a dealer and was looking at a new truck. We started haggling and I was following this method. There was a new truck I wanted and it cost 45k. I kept saying that I can only do 40k to which they promptly replied that they have a list of product that will fit that budget and pointed me to a used section. I left that day and started shopping on line. I negotiated an OUT THE DOOR price on a truck I liked over email and before I ever went to a show room in person. That method worked much better!

[@criticalthinker7822]

I did this with a lease renewal. This apartment complex was upgrading the community, new gym, new paint, new management too. When it came time for the rent to be renewed my lady and I paid only $5 more! And they were happy with it. The negotiation communication works.

[@therealmmason]

Amazing! Using this method when I go car shopping!

[@soupdancer17]

So eye opening!

[@davejmanning544]

Fantastic training Chris!

[@kurtmichaelson]

That was an amazing testimonial!

[@buzzkill808raven2]

My gym wouldn't reimburse me on an expired personal training session that I had already paid for... So after empathizing that I'm not upset with her, but with the top management for making such a crappy policy, and saying I've worked a similar job before, I then basically said "So you can't do anything for me?" And from there, the demeanour of the desk clerk changed and she became cooperative rather than adversarial. I asked to speak to the manager or get the number for head office, she went to the back, came back and said she talked to him and could give me the training session i paid for, even though they weren't supposed to technically allow it

[@reemm4696]

Wow I luv hearing stories like this

[@N0B0DY_SP3C14L]

This was a very cool explanation of a real world application for your average Joe or Jane. Awesome!

[@bradstudio]

Sent this to my friend who was inside the dealership and he was able to achieve his target price by getting an extra $1,500 knocked off their lowest price. Amazing.

[@coconutads]

I sold cars at a dealership that delivered 1100 new cars and trucks in one month. Rule one when you see the four square or payment, down payment, trade allowance, monthly payment. That is to find your hot button. When the salesperson turns the paper around (this is the important part) Say NOTHING the first to talk is the loser. The dealer makes money on the sale, the financing, the holdback and factory volume goals.

[@sdashia]

If anyone ever four squared me I'd nope the fuck out of there. Terribly unethical.

[@applejacks971]

I hated the 4 square tactic. I never used it. And definitely true, he who talks first just lost.

[@You-are-right-but]

Love that example. Wish I'd remembered this 24 hours ago. i used another technique (Mirror) and that got me most of the way

[@thompsonappliance3078]

i love this as much as the book.

[@NegotiationMastery]

Thank you!

[@habitant71]

I don't negotiate with myself, I ask; how can I do that?? Trust me, I'm in the car business, every year, I hold the most margin, after reading; never split the difference, I own clients like this gentleman, or I walk him, without giving up $5000 more and she mats. Price dropping is for the managers to weakly do. But, you'll be able to take advantage of all of my other sales representatives.

[@ahpahcheirevolucian9623]

The power of empathy

[@buzzkill808raven2]

Told my dad to watch this video before buying a classic car and he got them to knock the price down by something like 2.5 k, which was a significant drop in price that he probably wouldn't have gotten with the usual methods

[@Syncopia]

He talked him down nearly 5 grand! Daaaaamn!

[@TheDesertRat31]

Yea, that's a lot. Best I've done is 2500 or so. My last car was from the pre owned at a new car dealer, no used car lots for me. They actually had it priced pretty decent based on my research for the year and milage. I asked the salesman to work with me on price, so he gave me about 500 off their sticker (not the new car MSRP kind). So I said ok... If... He'd make that my "out the door" price with all tax, tag, docs, "fees" included. I could tell he didn't see that coming and gave me the "I don't know about that" stammering. I said make it happen or I walk. It worked.

[@toordog1753]

Thats easy to accomplish.

[@jerrylundegaard2592]

Actually the sales person did not go into the back room and "think about it a bit." The sales person went into the back room to receive instructions from his sales manager. Comically, this guy asks a sales person "did I Ieave anything on the table." He seems quite pleased the sales person responded "no". Seriously, what did he expect the sales person to say? Clearly this guy is clueless about what actually takes place on a new car dealership sales floor.

[@mungox1]

@john smith maybe it was end of the month & dealer wanted to meet a a quota for a bonus.

[@fhq547]

Agreed. Amateurs all round.

[@leferayala5228]

Moral of the story: go find amateurs and buy your car there.

[@Tom_Het]

Probably got the car for 1k

[@applejacks971]

@@mungox1 As the guy stated, it was end of the model year. The dealership still made $$ on the car, they didn't take a loss on it.

[@SophiaAphrodite]

I have been trying to work my way up to management at my job. I have been using these techniques this month to get in well with not just my manager but his manager AND the VP. I have managed to get a meeting with them by making myself indefensible. This stuff has worked so well.

[@jonathan99399]

Wonderful video

[@GeorgeAdams]

Dealers make their profit in Finance and take back the gains you thought you just made setting the price. Shaving $5k off a car price is nothing if the loan terms are right, you paid $1k for “documentation fees”, and got that extended warranty.

[@intimacywithallthings]

What about during the financing?

[@Chronicbadminton]

I have never seen this work. Salesmen dont care for anything except getting paid. Do your research, shop around, get dealers to compete against each other. That is how you get a good deal.

[@edwincheung3561]

Well this obviously did work. Car salesmen get paid salary + commission which is percentage of dealers gross profit. If you are a potential customer, who’s asking price is even just only a tiny bit over break-even, they’re going to try to make that sale because that’s still money in the pocket. Once you walk out, you’re an opportunity he just misses. of course if you ask under break-even it’s a hard no but profit is profit

[@zbrodis58]

False in many cases. Treating customers right creates a continuous flow of repeat business.

[@whiteowl5962]

"Salesmen don't care for anything except getting paid." I absolutely disagree. I'm a salesman myself, and one of the largest (if not THE largest) factors for someone to succeed in the business is the heart and dedication to provide the highest quality of service for the best customer satisfaction. Sure, we salesmen want to get paid, but we're also human and care for the people we interact with.

[@MrAjallday91]

Do you do that at gas stations? Clothing stores? ANY where else in life? No. After being in the business, if I were to buy a car, I'd want to know about the dealership itself. Pay whatever they ask, because it comes up all the time if you have an issue. If you beat them up on price, beat them up on price, beat them up on price, how happy are they going to be there for you if you have a problem...not at all, if at all.

[@MrAjallday91]

But the person who is nice and pays whatever and knows the dealer isnt trying to f everyone over...the dealer will jump threw hoops to get you taken care of no matter what. I guarantee it

[@zardiw]

Nice!!

[@JohnnyArtPavlou]

Yes, what was it a cash deal or was it a credit deal and did you wind up paying more for it in the long run? How it’s paid for is as important or more important than the purchase price because that determines the actual purchase price.

[@barakzilberman9142]

Nice!

[@sushiltiwari7361]

Just practices same technique and purchased minivan at incredible price :)

[@miket2916]

Sorry, what was the technique(s)?

[@glenwhiteheart458]

This is the best Disneyland story ever !!!

[@Bigdubbs0706]

Good stuff but what about when they suggest a lower priced car to suit your "budget" What would CV do?

[@diorchrome]

there r lines from Zig Ziglar as well

[@graysonfox4159]

I've been practicing a bit of this recently but the used car market is just nuts. Hard to negotiate a good price when the baseline has gone up 60% in two years.

[@sidrakamal3595]

takeaway: compliment on price, budget included winter mats

[@salvatorefregapane5273]

Join our group chat if you'd like to practice and roleplay Voss' techniques :) Link ---> discord.gg/qpYaEY

[@tverskyilana9798]

Are you still practicing?

[@BarrySchanz]

That's awesome

[@NegotiationMastery]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@lonjohnson5161]

I bought a car two days ago. I should have looked for this video first.

[@xxrngxx5]

Wow.

[@LRRPFco52]

Try negotiating in the market with dealers now. I just walked because they know they can sell a trashed vehicle without even trying.

[@TheKorbi]

This sounds like an ad for a fishy mentorship/coaching group

[@negativegains4883]

Well it kinda is? Voss now lives off selling his book as well as the BSGroup negotiating tactics.

[@theaustinmcbride]

I feel like this would be more effective if it was presented scientifically rather than as anecdotal proof of concept.

[@warbler1984]

@@theaustinmcbride i found his book very compelling...but the KZbin channel is making me reassess it

[@Tom_Het]

"Buying a car is exactly like a hostage negotiation. The exact same neural pathways are triggered. Sounds smart, right? Must be true. Take my word for it. My book/masterclass will help you with this and more. Picking up women is exactly like a hostage negotiation. Buying coffee at Starbucks is exactly like a hostage negotiation. Crossing the street is exactly like a hostage negotiation..."

[@negativegains4883]

@@Tom_Het if you take his ideas literally and not use them to suit different aspects of your life, then its a huge waste of time lol

[@darrenbull345654]

I'm in sales, to me it sounds like the sales person set a high boundary to start with and gave Joe the opportunity to talk himself into buying a car. Did he get 5 grand off? or is that what the salesman wanted all along? If a boundary is set high there is always a chance that you will get it, and worse case scenario the customer feels great if they get you down on price, but it might have been the price you would go to all along, but you have to give him the fight, if the sales person said sure straight away and shook Joe's hand at £17000 then started jumping around the office bigging himself up because he'd got rid of the bloody car he'd been suck with, Joe would have felt rubbish even though he'd got the price he wanted.. I'm studying Mr Voss's techniques to see how to let the customer feel like Joe did, but keep it closer to the high boundary price. This is how I see the scenario could have actually been, but I could be wrong...

[@zakr7631]

Yeah, I have to agree with this, I'm betting he left at least another $1,000 on the table.

[@darrenbull345654]

Zak R but it is still a fantastic way to get down to that price isn’t it, if he hadn’t have used the techniques the sales person would have happily taken the 21k.

[@zakr7631]

@@darrenbull345654 Maybe it is, maybe it's a terrible way and any kind of negation would have gotten it under 18K, with a sample size of one all that can be concluded for sure is that negotiating is better than buying for the sticker price.

[@O4C209]

Usually it's they set it high but without intention to let it go. That's their profit. Say the car is $16,000 and set at $22,000. You get them to agree to $17,800 means they gave up $4,200 of $6,000 profit. They typically don't do that as part of the tactic, it's usually a, "hey, I'm making a profit still, I'm moving a car, and that guy might send other people my way".

[@applejacks971]

It was a NEW car, end of model year...so ALL factory and dealer incentives and discounts are taken off the MSRP. Does anyone in the comment section know ANYTHING about dealerships? It's apparent they don't. Also, ALL incentives and discounts given by the manufacturer are retained by the dealer. So if there's a $5000 factory incentive, the dealer gets that anyway. The dealer gets their $$ from the car one way or another. Dealers NEVER lose $$ on a car deal, NEVER.

[@zandremagbojos570]

Later i send big issue about the car the registered and hope tofix asap my problem i send firtst step

[@thedude4044]

ive been doing this to people on MMORPGs for years.

[@Nugs59]

Dav C OMG HAHAHAHAHHA this made me laugh so hard 😂😂😂😂

[@fakecubed]

This kind of stuff is applicable to all areas of life.

[@jamestang96]

Wouldn't the use of 'BUT' negate in some way the preceding compliment or statement? How did it fit in here? Such as: "That is an extremely generous price BUT no way I can do that, i'm so sorry I feel embarassed by that, but I can't do that."

[@BatistaInvests]

Wow. Holy shit.

[@trustedcardealer4465]

Now add a video for how to sell a car, Chris. Thanks!

[@nicolette3436]

I hope to meet you one day and you're amazing team!

[@NegotiationMastery]

Thank you Nicole! Our team is awesome! Are you subscribing to our newsletter! We have training announcements there!

[@MichaelStephenLau]

I bought a RAM 1500 and got 18,000 off the price, granted that was before I heard of Chris Voss, but watching his trainings it's really reassured the methods I used to get the deal. He really knows his stuff, and people should listen to the details of his technique.

[@Blessed.2.Teach.4God]

What was the original price, what did you get it for, and what were the circumstances & methods you used to reach that agreement... Would love to hear if you're willing to share.

[@MichaelStephenLau]

@@Blessed.2.Teach.4God MSRP: $62,000 FINAL: $44,000 I was mainly looking at the truck like I was interested and would like to buy it if the price became something I could afford granted it had specifically the features I was looking for unique to that truck, but I was not in any situation where I felt pressured to make any purchases that day. I was nice to the guy, bonding like I was grateful for the time and effort he gave working with me and when he tried to talk of the normal tactics like what I want to pay month to month, I said I didn't care about the month to month as I really just cared about the bottom line of the deal I final price) and whether I can afford it now with money in the bank, but hinting that I had intent on likely financing it through the dealership. I'd ask what rates they're giving to people with exceptional credit, and then go back to talking about the truck. He'd talk up the truck to try to get me excited, and so I said, "Oh that's great! The dealership must being doing great with these then, and can be expecting a hefty kickback at the end of the period (it was the end of that quarter). He said oh yes the trucks are popular, but are you kidding? Have you heard the commercials? We need to sell X number of trucks before the end of the month and that's why they offering good discounts! I said (nicely :) ), "Oh... so you must really need this sale then. :P ) and the look on his face was like... man I just showed my cards didn't I? Haha anyways, the first offer didn't go out right away. I acted afraid to talk it until I knew for sure I cared enough to try to buy the truck I knew I "couldn't afford", said I was afraid of insulting him with where I truly wanted to be at, and started very low going back and forth until just above the final price. Then I said I really appreciate the time he's put in, it's still beyond my reach and that I'd have to think about it overnight anyways as I had an appointment with the Ford dealership scheduled for the next morning (this was night by now and around closing). He asked like, oh you mean Ford across the street (also owned by them). I said, "oh no... competitor Ford" and he gulped as I was starting to say goodbye shake hands and go to leave. He said he really wished he could do some more asking what more he could do as "all his cards are on the table and we've reached the supposed bottom". I said I know it's unfortunate as I was hoping to get to the right number for me, and get him his deserved cut if the deal for the time spent, but i just can't do it. He said maybe i can speak one more time direct with the finance manager and just see what can be done. Walked in, pushed for $50k even after TTL which makes the final price $44, it took a while but he bit and as soon as her said it I shook his hand and said deal, because I knew it was a steal, and once offered and I accepted that was binding. I went in knowing what people have been paying, I knew what invoice was, what incentives they were offering, and I knew generally speaking what they'd get back in kickbacks from Ram, so I targeted that as my number to land on for that particular truck granted I hinted at financing with them and possibly performing a lot of aftermarket services with them (leads them to believe there's more money to be paid there). I ended up putting down $20,000 and financing the remaining. Nicest truck I've owned so far.

[@MichaelStephenLau]

I financed with bank of my choice and paid it off in a year.

[@Blessed.2.Teach.4God]

@@MichaelStephenLau Excellent story, excellent deal, great job, thank you for the time... Much appreciated. -God Bless.

[@vicjim3353]

That wasn't a good deal, but sometimes we are not in our right mind and we make really horrible decisions in the car business or even any other kind of business, we must learn from it and not negotiate with the wrong people...but not matter what the car dealer should be treat every costumer with respect and never take advantage of their clients

[@Blood-Libel]

Wow

[@chrisklugh]

Did he finance this car? Or take any extra options? Don't be surprised, they know how to get the deal back though financing!

[@anthonysellers7545]

Ugh. Wish this worked for me. I was just told no, find a different car.

[@nileshdhanani6649]

I believe if I try that now, the salesman would just say why don’t we increase the financing term?

[@richierich291266]

To what extent, I wonder, do the Black Swan techniques become less effective the more widely known they become. For example, if the sales person had also studied the techniques and recognized he was being Voss-ed, would the outcome of the negotiation have been different?

[@therealshard]

that's an excellent question! i was wondering the same. but it being rooted in the way humans function, I don't think it'd "stop working" per se. in fact, it might even be that the other party feels a deeper sense of connection because "hey! i know that technique too!" and then maybe they'd be able to collaborate directly and openly. who knows!

[@fakecubed]

@@therealshard I've wondered the same, that it would only just build more empathy.

[@ishadowpeople6577]

Hard to hear a bit mate

[@kiungaskiung5836]

What are winner mats? Or did he mean winter mats like for the tires? 🤔(ain’t a native)

[@fakecubed]

Winter mats are rubber mats on the floor inside the car so if you have snow and road salt on your feet it doesn't mess up the inside of your car.

[@ze_german2921]

gonna be buying a 5th wheel soon, I let you know how it went 😁

[@ohooper]

so...? how did it go

[@markmsmeltzer]

@@ohooper apparently not that good ;)

[@hanktrill1498]

Chris has previously said he doesn't believe in lying to someone that you aren't planning to kill so I'm confused.

[@YourBestFriendforToday]

Where did this guy lie?

[@buzzkill808raven2]

THIS SHIT SEEMS INSANE BUT IT WORKS. I'm a mealy mouthed wuss but even I can get this technique to work, and I've only watched a few of his vids

[@Odood19]

Could have got a better price by starting a bidding war between two dealerships over the same car

[@causeXeffect23]

I am a car salesman and this guy thinks he got a “good deal” but I guarantee you the dealership was only in the Camry he described for about 14k MAXIMUM.

[@timtalks8292]

Jeffrey Frosch cx gets a tax a write off + the dealer has to pay commissions And keep the lights on.

[@Live.startup]

Hello felow students. I would like to ask your opinion. I had an examination today. It was an internal exam at work, had to do with raising my skills. Exam was 1 on 1 with the examiner, in a workplace. Bottom line i scored 23 pts and 24 pts resulted in a pay raise (not much but still). I decided that this is a good opportunity to train...Started off with a positive but not pushy attitude, letting him know that 23 just doesn't work for me. I was asking questions fex. Did he ever had a situation like that before (question was a yes or no but he gave an open answer), i mirrored his answers to the point i actually heard a "that's correct" , but he didn't nudge, i trew in a label, smth. Like "it seems like you're a professional in this subject" he opend more to the point that i threw a question "do you think i don't deserve the 24 points?" He answered i think you do... after " is there anything we can do about it?" He was still defending himself with work standards. He started getting anxious but not in a negative way, i saw some internal conflict. I threw, do you give up on letting me get a higher salary that could ease my tight financial situation a bit? Still no nugde...at the end i had to sign for the resoult and as a last measure i said, "sorry, but i just dont see how i can sign this without another chance" ..... in the end, starting to get worried (I'm new at work) i signed, defeted , after seeing the next two people waiting for the exam and him getting bit red on the face. After two hours he aproached and said, i can't let you take a test for the next 6 months, but I'll come back with another one (different) next week in witch the same principal applies- 24 points = higher salary Was this a negotiable situation at all? What could I've done better? Should i have kept pushing the refusal to sign? Or maybe I shoukd consider it a opportunity to win the next day? Ant thoughts?

[@Life-Sky]

I think you got a good deal: retake the test. You have to consider that he is probably an examiner with no authority, and even if you had good persuasion he sees himself as an employee ( The agentic state is an explanation of obedience offered by Milgram and is where an individual carries out the orders of an authority figure, acting as their agent. ) It's hard to negotiate against employees because they follow orders (carry that state of mind) and many times do not have the authority to do something (he says moral, because most likely it's not something his role is supposed to do, so making it would be immoral). He gave you a good choice that he would havenever gave you if you didn't negotiate: You know the topic of the questions and can prepare better. I wouldn't have pushed more because as you said; it was affecting him emotionally yet he didn't change, so it's clear that it wasn't going anywhere. ---- In other situations with Agentic State in people (teachers in a university, employees, everyone that is following orders) you should consider pointing it out and enhancing people's fear of losing control/lacking choice: Employee: Sorry sir, but I'm afraid there's nothing I can do about it. You: So there is NOTHING you can do about it? /// You are POWERLESS to do anything about it? /// It's just awful that you CAN'T DO ANYTHING to help me. //// >>>>> Always be polite (I'm sorry but could you.../// Please-I would be thankful- Would you kindly), and be ready to walk away after saying that; many times the solution comes after (like your test retake). If the other person is doing something that they consider it's immoral, wrong, that you were threated unfairly, then focusing on what I said PLUS the morality will get you more chances. You: So there is nothing you can do about it?...It's just so UNFAIR isn't it?./////// : "It's just awful how something LIKE THIS could happen....Can't you do anything about this? This IS WRONG...>>>>>Never insult them or imply that they have to do with the immorality. (Will you let THIS happen? ///// Do you think THEY are gonna take responsability for THIS? //// They will blame YOU instead. ) If they focus too much on "following orders/rules" then talking about how they are part of the system is actually right (if it's something immoral you should follow the previous one better). You: I'm sorry but don't you have a choice? Like aren't you an employee? Surely there's something you can do.>>>>Reminding them that they ARE part of the system, and that they DO have a choice, that they choose to obey. The word CHOICE/Decision and EXCEPTION is something to consider. (You have no choice? Could you please make an exception? ) ---- Hope it helps. If you read it all congrats you are an awesome person! :P (Use wisely)

[@Live.startup]

@@Life-Sky of course I read it all, great insight. Thank you. P.S. I got 26 on the second one ;)

[@thisbusinessofmusic1276]

Why not do some research on what the dealer pays for the car and research what dealers need as a profit and, if you can afford it, then just buy it without having to go thru all of this stuff. Just be prepared and be prepared to walk away. Let them dicker with someone else. Time is money.

[@aryeheast9704]

Good job. But just so you know, your Toyota salesman most likely couldn't care less what you paid for that new car. He's almost certainly on a volume pay-plan. Him, his desk manager, the general sales manager and the GM just need you to buy the car so they can hit their volume numbers. The real question is - what did you buy from the finance manager?

[@jbean530]

What if you go in with cash?

[@graftedtheband]

I thought for sure the next thing coming after $17,800 was going to be a specific amount. Like, “Gosh that’s a really generous offer. Thank you so much. It’s just, the most I can actually do today is $17,530.” Great example and I love the ask for “what else can you give me?” Awesome!

[@DianaPolovko]

I am a huge fan of Chris Voss and Black Swan. Bought his book when it just came out. There is no need of any of these skills in buying a car in todays world. Those days are gone long time ago. I am a real estate agent today but I started in car sales. Internet killed it for car sales people. All the numbers are out there, online. Whoever thinks they need skills to negotiate a car price should learn how research car prices online.

[@ahmeda95]

I sold this guy the car... THAT’S NOT COOL MAN 😡😡

[@gregthomas82]

How does your conscience feel about emotionally manipulating people? Is it ok to do in a purchase deal or should you seek what’s fair for both parties in a win/win negotiation where the facts and details are above board without the mental trickery? Not being self-righteous because i have flaws and all the same stuff regular people have. Just curious.

[@antoniog9814]

@gregthomas82 First, that salesman would not have been allowed to sell the car at that price had the deal not been approved by the sales manager. Every car sale in a dealership is approved by the sales manager. Second, I'm sure the salesman got some commission on that deal because otherwise, he wouldn't have accepted the offer and taken it to his manager. There is no such thing as a "win/win" negotiation. The minute someone tells you "Let's make a win/win type of deal," walk away because someone is going to screw you over. In this case, you're just not letting the salesman know you're just going to roll over and accept his inflated offer. You're working it down to the lowest price he'll accept. I would have done one better. I only deal with sales managers because they're salaried and can go lower on deals.

[@blacktortoise6812]

"How does your conscience feel about emotionally manipulating people?" See right there, you are doing the same thing by posing this question lol

[@DvdStennis]

gregthomas82 buying a car is a zero sum game, meaning that what one party loses, the other party wins and vice versa. So there is no win-win, other then a car seller throwing in things like winter tyres at a rate which is lower than retail for you and still makes him money. So you negotiate to ‘win’ and so does the other party (no matter what they might want you to believe, to their benefit).

[@impossiblewindows4367]

I had the same reaction when I first began studying influence. I think what you will find in time is that there are no transactions void of manipulation. Everyone is perpetually using manipulative tactics on some level, whether consciously or not. Put yourself in this frame of mind and watch any conversation, negotiation etc... you will see it plain as day. Being consciously aware of what you’re already doing and improving it does not make it any more or less manipulative than what you’ve already been doing by nature. We are emotional beings who believe we are rational. Every word you hear, has a deep seated subconscious gravity to it. If choosing your words wisely is manipulative, not doing so is nothing short of reckless.

[@bsnoonan]

Cool story but it's not like they are going to tell you that you left money on the table..

[@lancealigiannis7873]

superman

[@zofe]

This explains why a 1 y.o. car costs 2/3 the MSRP !

[@SiGoodchild1]

Exactly. I tried this in the secondhand market and was only able to get about 5% off. The reality of the situation is that new cars have a lot more margin and room for manoeuvre.

[@zofe]

@@SiGoodchild1 In Germany you can buy a 1 y.o. car "Jahresauto" from a local maker e.g. VW for some 60% of its MSRP.

[@19daniellegut]

If the new Camry was already discounted to $23k using a $3k discount off MSRP, there’s no way the dealership is going to sell it under $18k. Camrys have a slim profit margin… calling it BS cause no dealership is going to lose thousands just like that 😂😂😂

[@NegotiationMastery]

This stuff seems counterintuitive. If you give it a try, I promise you will be surprised at how well it works!

[@medali908]

so i just start acting poor and ask for handouts ?

[@Safar.369]

Fuck I’m doing that naturally I thought all of my life That I don’t get enough discounts. Fuck Honestly, I thought a decent discount must be half the price at least 😂😂😂 I’m making people do that , fkn good feeling I’m tell ya 😀 I’m wasting my money, however, always had good deals. Balancing each other

[@TimJSwan]

All for a little plastic toy Yoda. Wow.

[@bellastone-le9eb]

He won because the man approaching him didn’t seem like a negotiator which hid his skills or that he was using tactics.

[@NegotiationMastery]

You think so?

[@bellastone-le9eb]

@@NegotiationMastery Yes that’s what I observed. I may be wrong but it seems he applied tactics upon tactics like a cloak.

[@thelistener8357]

Well if i was a sales man i would ask your budget before we go any further and i would recommend other car that cost significantly lower to meet up with your affordability plan

[@fredericp64]

What we don't know is that he went from .99% to 4% financing...

[@dr.debbiewilliams]

I bought cars before.

[@jeffrreybell]

Fbiempathy

[@bornforbanning]

What he didnt mention is that it went from 0.5 to 15% APR

[@zbrodis58]

As a salesman, this story and Chris' story from the book are lacking info. Many dealers use addendums to jack up their prices in order to give seemingly ridiculous discounts. I wonder if anything like that was involved in either deal. Also, every dealership sells warranties as well. And purchasing some of those might warrant for a bit of extra discount. I would like to know how all that went down. The salesperson lost this one the second he walked away from his customer. If he would've stayed with him and asked something like: "What research have you done to arrive at that price?" He could've held onto better control. People ask for ridiculous prices on vehicles all the time. Most of the time I just smile and make a joke like. "Man something must be wrong with my chair" When they ask"why?" "Everyone who sits there thinks the cars cost too much!"

[@en.4392]

Zach Brodis Quick question, If it’s cool, for whom do you use your skills in salesmanship ? How can someone become the ultimate salesman or get better at selling?

[@zbrodis58]

Hi@@en.4392 I work for a Ken Garff Honda dealership. I think to master anything you need time, effort, and focus. I'm about 2 years in and a lot more relaxed than when I started. I've had good results but nowhere near mastery. We role play daily which helps. We also have a training program that was put together by Grant Cardone that we train on every day. Also we have a refined sales process which we do our best to adhere. Books are helpful but actually role playing, drilling, and rehearsing is necessary. I liked Chris Voss book "never split the difference" I'm always reading or revisiting a book on how to negotiate. Here's a quote from Cardone that's really true. "You can't control the flow of a sale without asking quality questions and getting the answers to those questions." Just a couple of questions from the sales guy in these situations would have given him a lot more power than running away to the sales tower to ask for discounts and losing all his credibility. Do you work in sales already or just thinking about it?

[@Malt454]

In this context, the claim that it worked is far more important than whether it did or if the story is even in anyway true - whether any salesman got "hustled" or not, the claim is what's really being sold here. Two guys patting each other on the back while telling you a tale is a con in itself.

[@thedude4044]

i see your point, but this video is

[@Malt454]

​@@thedude4044- Right, they "give out a technique", but it's really just a claim of success backing it up. After watching the video, I'm just not impressed, but you have to watch to comment responsibly - and anyone actually reading the comments wouldn't mistake mine for an endorsement. I guess my comment is more about the psychological "negotiation"/sales job being done on the viewer whether any of the claims are true or not. It reminds me of the pages of ad hustles in comic books promising to "teach" you the "secrets" of Kung Fu and hypnotism for less than $1.

[@pdorism]

Well, I know I'm going to try it next time I get a chance. I realize I already do this with my mechanic, by driving a shit car even though I'm loaded and always manage to get it fixed for cheap. It makes sense to act like you're barely scrounging by. How are you going to make money off of me if I don't have any?

[@toordog1753]

Yeah right, i bet they took that car in for 50% of that.

[@fakecubed]

So the dealer is happy and the buyer is happy. Sounds like a good outcome.

[@MrAjallday91]

Sounds like a new guy in car sales. I would have taken this car from him and got him into a different one if that one was outside his budget. Confidentially taking something away reveals alot

[@applejacks971]

If that's the car the customer wants, then build value in your product. Show them how you can make it a reality. If you 'get him on to a different one', then the customer will spend all day dragging YOU around to every other car that's the price you showed them and less. You just lost control and lost the deal. A customer can buy a used car ANYWHERE. They can only buy the NEW TOYOTA at a new car dealership.

[@MrAjallday91]

@@applejacks971 yes I agree. If they see value, then they'd be fine with paying what is asked. VALUE is determined by the CUSTOMER not the salesperson. So assuming a great presentation and demo, if they argue price, then switch vehicles to something more in their budget.

[@MrAjallday91]

@@applejacks971 what a customer "wants" and can afford are two totally different things. In this example it just plain old sounds like a new guy who would keep running around to the manager instead of finding the RIGHT car or overcoming their reasons to not buy that one. If you're in car sales this will help you

[@YOLOnyc]

@@MrAjallday91 I've walked out on salespeople who take your approach many times, and then buy from the ones who want to play the game. You may be convinced with your ideology, but you've probably lost many customers that way. Only a naive non-car-enthusiast would agree to sizing down vehicle instead of the dealership cutting the price, and that will frequently result in buyers remorse - they'll resent you the next day for "convincing" them to buy the car they didn't want.

[@MrAjallday91]

@@YOLOnyc walking out is fine, because you have an imaginary number in your head and that doesn't mean I have to match it..I don't go to the gas station, pump $30 worth then go in and say i only brought $15 and they are the ones wrong for not making it fit my budget. Everything in the world has mark up and guess what when a person says my price is wrong I say okay, let's get something in your budget. Or...let's only pump your $15 worth of gas. Its simple if you have never worked in sales to disagree with everything I say, I get that..but I'm a professional and a customer thinking they know more than me, its fine, you'll never make 100% happy. I could GIVE cars away and you'd be the one person who complains that it doesn't have a full tank of gas.. it is what it is

[@effie8547]

More like you just pressured the guy into giving up his commission to keep his sales numbers up. I guess you could say he would have ripped you off given the chance, but that doesn't make this a good thing. Stop being jerks to people. Treat each other well and have compassion.

[@rodman410]

How was he being a jerk? How was this negotiation "more pressure" on the salesman versus a normal renegotiation?

[@Life-Sky]

@@rodman410 Yeah he thinks people are like puppets and you can manipulate them at will with psychology... you can make something more likely to happen but not force it, and it doesn't even mean it's a bad deal for the salesman. The salesman surely had a ceiling (or his manager that he was speaking with) and so they negotiate with a price in mind, while still getting good profit margins. Negotiation got the buyer a good price, while still giving good margins to the company: thats called a good deal.

[@applejacks971]

That sales rep got paid regardless. The dealership did NOT lose $$ on that deal. If dealerships lost $$ or 'broke even' on car deals they wouldn't be in business. They didn't build a dealership by by giving cars away. A dealership isn't going to let a customer run the program. Not gonna happen.

[@fhq547]

The limits of your methods are evidenced here. Negotiator yes, salesperson no. Your methods only work on a weak salesperson working for a weak brand.

[@dean8642]

I don’t see it going this way. From the first. This is embarrassing but I can’t do 21000 he would say well what can you do. And you’d say 17 and he’d come back with 20000 say it’s as low as he can go. You’d say I can’t do that. He always knows your low. And then he doesn’t take you serious anymore

[@applejacks971]

It seems you've never been in car sales. A sale reps job is to hold the price of the car and get the buyer to come up. You never give away the farm to start, never. You're example is haggling and 'meeting in the middle', which is exactly what Chris's book does NOT teach. It teaches the opposite. There is no win-win in haggling.

[@dean8642]

applejacks971 it doesn’t matter the salesman is going to ask you what your budget is as soon as you say that’s generous but not in my budget

[@johnhanselman6371]

I never imagined a Toyota dealer would sell that car for that price. . Almost unbelievable. Hmm.. The guy stumbled in the beginning and said "used then said new" ? Makes me wonder if the car was a demo. * Word for the wise when a buyer tells their bragging story with corrected mistakes then they usually are lying about a relevant detail. Kinda like a fisherman telling about his prized catch and his story somehow changes each time he tells it. I was enlightened with the buying gimmick to thank the seller for the price offered. If he lied to the seller why would he not lie to us.

[@benbill7686]

It was new. And it was a black swan. And that really was the otd price. Black swans exist but you wont find them unless you know how.