We are NOT ready for Windows 12

[@elijahvincent985]

Windows 12 already?! I haven't even left Windows 10!

[@enigmaoftheechidna6279]

Same

[@theoldtechhandheldtinkerer4092]

Yup, same here, I tried to install Windows 11 last year but I'm not able to enable Secure Boot in my Bios, which appears to be mandatory for 11, and I didn't feel like installing a new bios. So the only device I currently have Windows 11 on is as dual boot on my Steam Deck. EDIT: holy shit, I just looked up how old windows 10 is, next year it's gonna be 10 years old. I'm feeling old... My first computer was a Windows 98 machine, that OS was basically brand new when I got it.

[@marcusellby]

It's normal using every other Windows version

[@ikuturso7570]

Why would you? Win10 works great.

[@BIZKIT551]

Time to upgrade BOOMER

[@justbobagian]

The last thing I want on my computer is any form of AI sucking up resources

[@YoDaBones]

lets just delete it as soon as we can

[@LePedant]

DLSS and FSR are both AI technology... I take it you aren't a gamer then?

[@Hrethgir]

One of the big selling points to me for the Oneplus 12 was it doesn't really have AI on it like Pixel and Galaxy phones do. Sounds like a win to me!

[@Denvermorgan2000]

@@YoDaBones You wont be able to delete your built in AI spy.

[@kbtriplesix]

@@Hrethgir It'll have AI soon.

[@AceMcCrank]

And people wonder why Linux has gained so much traction for the desktop (went from 3% to 4% in a couple months, and is expected to keep growing). Valve's work with Proton has made gaming so much more accessible, and Linux has given life to devices that would no longer be able to get necessary security updates through Windows.

[@CommodoreFan64]

I've been a Linux fan since the late 90's when Corel Linux was a big deal, so I'm glad to see this as more and more people are finally waking up to the BS Microsoft, and even Apple are pulling on still good hardware that's only a couple years old.

[@AceMcCrank]

@@CommodoreFan64 I have this conspiracy theory in my head that since so many Linux distros focus so much on security and privacy, the "Other/Unknown" is like, 99% also Linux which accounts for an additional 6-8% depending on the survey. Then again, it might just be wishful thinking. Lol.

[@CommodoreFan64]

@@AceMcCrank If you throw in Chrome OS/Chrome OS Flex that's based on Gentoo Linux which can run .deb Linux packages, and Android that's also based on the Linux, then the market share is estimated to be around 30% to as high as 60%+, and it's just going to keep growing as kids in school get so use to Chrome OS , and the fact it now has a 10 year support life, and can even run STEAM for gaming.

[@AIChameleonMusic]

Ty for articulating this, 100% agree. Arch Linux os based system like the steam deck are really making ppl think about the OS they use.

[@akurasubject9617]

Linux is prone to break by updating these so called "packages" that somewhat nukes ur graphic driver or desktop so its not quite reliable.

[@hamzasultan96]

Linux support is going to skyrocket and I'm here for it. I have been meaning to switch for a while now and the only thing keeping me from doing so is being used to Windows and gaming thanks to dumb anti cheat access. If Microsoft is going to push the entire world out (Most third world countries still use 5th gen CPUs and older when you're talking about casual users) then it's obvious people will flock to Linux.

[@warthunder1969]

While linux won't work for everyone, I do think this whole situation will drive alot of linux adoption for "perfectly good hardware". I largely switched because I was tired of the BS.

[@Mr.Atari2600]

Been using Linux Mint for over a year now & it has been much more peaceful than my experience with Windows 11.

[@BigFatCone]

No it won't.

[@hamzasultan96]

@@warthunder1969 Being the "tech guy" from my local community. I can tell you that people are willing to try new software if the advantage is big enough. Back in university, we were given laptops to do our class work. They were running Windows but barely. One guy asked me if the laptop could get Android because Android had the necessary apps a student would need. I helped a few friends install Android x86 and as far as I remember, none of them ever switched back even though some apps wouldn't work on legacy hardware. They just didn't want to deal with slow Windows. I can easily imagine the same kind of people switching to Mint or Pop OS if they realise they can no longer use the latest Windows. Of course some of them wouldn't understand the dangers of outdated operating systems and stick with Windows 10.

[@luki8806]

My sister's config is an i5 2400 with 8GB ram, 120SSD + 1TB HDD, gt710 VGA and 2x 1280x1024 monitors and a 1080p TV running ubuntu 22.04 (started with 16.04) and the whole family (2 parents and 2 kids) uses it for everyday tasks and movies. I have a few of this type of configs in the family, they work really well. It just doesn't make sense to replace hardware that works perfectly. Gamers are only part of the PC users, they have good HW, so they will eventually update their system. The average joe who use his PC to browse the web, do some email, light office stuff, watch movies and listen to music is perfectly fine on linux for years now. I'm currently waiting for the W10 EOL so 7th gen systems and the first ryzens can be obtained for dirt cheap, so it will be really good investment for linux users for years.

[@noahhallman9174]

Matt got it 100% right. There was no need to upgrade my PC that was really good and not that old just because it couldn't upgrade to 11 when it came out. My PC works good, and not like I can afford to just buy all new parts but I am going to have to or I won't have a safe computer. And I kind of use it all the time so...

[@nomadscheap-n-nerdy9901]

Your computer is safe stay off bad websites and use antivirus

[@TheCommanderTaco]

@@nomadscheap-n-nerdy9901 it's not just a matter of bad websites though. Given time ( depending on how long they keep using win 10. I am in the same boat with a laptop that I use near daily for bill payments etc) a hacker will more then likely find some type of exploit that they can run through a game or discord image etc. Given that Microsoft won't be giving updates out anymore ( unless it becomes widespread with majority people still using 10 lol) that exploit will then be forever open making it unsafe to do anything but the bare essential of web surfing. * also depending on the anti-virus it also might not support 10 anymore which would mean the software would eventually become outdated. Not having up to date definitions for viruses will also open the system up to danger.

[@night_light2867]

You needed to update to use e cores correctly Virtual desktop is a good productivity enhancer Snap feature for resizing apps is useful, too Etc

[@Twenty_Six_Hundred]

Microsoft has a simple walkthrough to upgrade to 11 on their website... It's literally one boot setting that takes seconds to fix. I have done the upgrade myself

[@FenrirTheGray]

I have a decent machine (5800X3D, 64GB 3600MT/s RAM, RTX 3090, 4TB KC3000) and just a few days ago I switched back (after 2 years) to Windows 10. It is so much more stable. My main problem were UI elements bugging out constantly (for example volume scroll). Issues persisted on 11 even after a clean reinstall. But on 10, I have none of the issues. For now, I'm sticking with 10.

[@notChocoMilk]

windows 11 actually entirely corrupted it’s self at least four times for me before..

[@BigFatCone]

Objection your honor, anecdotal. Me personally have had so many issues with every version of Windows that it stopped being a factor.

[@greenman8]

I figured I would give Win11 the College try, I lasted 3 months, until I gave up and did a fresh Install of Old Windows 10. What is wrong with MS? Are they Sadomasochist to constantly throw out the good, for the new-bright and shiny but stinky brown object?

[@Mr.Atari2600]

Windows 12: *Arrives* Windows XP: I'm still alive!

[@WalterKnox]

I am still running XP 10 years after EOS, and it still accomplished everything I need to perfectly. When it gets to the point that it doesn't, I guess I will move to Windows 7.

[@TrapTech]

@@WalterKnox Do NOT go to 77 or 8 bro... Pass GO!!! Skip 2 squares, please lol

[@WalterKnox]

@@TrapTech given that you can’t even spell out words properly, I don’t think I will be taking any advice that comes from you. I will never use windows 10 because it is a hot mess, and the system requirements for 11 (which is even more of a mess) are absurd, so I won’t be using that either.

[@Mr.Atari2600]

@@TrapTech What?

[@TheRealGigaCat]

​@@Mr.Atari2600don't bother.😂 Once something compromises. He will learn the hard way.

[@Skibbehify]

I just switched fully to linux last year & honestly it was a great choice

[@NotePortal]

i fully switched last week and ive been having such a great time. I am using Tuxedo OS and its SOOOOO good. its much faster than windows, much more stable and also lets me do whatever the fuck I want to it.

[@Skibbehify]

@@NotePortal it honestly made computers fun again

[@NotePortal]

@@Skibbehify it really did

[@Ninetails94]

"windows 10 is the last version of windows" "windows 11 is the last version of windows" now microsoft will say windows 12 is the last version of windows, i dont think microsoft understand how making something the last thing youll use. this is why i use all the bypasses for the tpm 2.0 check, theres no reason for it.

[@BronyumHexofloride]

Micro$oft are stuck in the Squaresoft/Enix Paradigm of FINAL fantasy, never was Final

[@rainzeros8393]

They never said that windows 11 would be the last version, and the quote of "windows 10 is the last version" is a misquote that the media ran with and since it was all over the Internet we all remember that as the truth

[@aceman67]

The cut off for 11 was really arbitrary. For intel cpus, it was 8th gen, even though 8th gen and 7th gen, barring generational differences which didn't account for much, were functionally the same. They supported all the same features that Windows 11 needed, including an integrated TPM. I have a 7th gen i7 7700HQ laptop that can run windows 11 flawlessly (I know because I forced it to run), but Micro$haft says 'nope, too old'.

[@mecyanned]

Micaelshit

[@joshuawoodbridge6267]

Don't you mean 10 and 11th Intel CPUs to 12/13/14th?

[@mecyanned]

@@joshuawoodbridge6267 bro forgot about 8 and 9th gen lmao but honestly 8th gen is just same performance as 10th gen and 9th gen is the literal definition of ctrl c and v

[@RickyT15]

The cut off was based on TPM which bitlocker uses. The issue became evident when people found how to update to 11 on TPM 1.0 modules when it required TPM 2.0. The big difference is how the keys are stored and managed between the 2 gens of modules. This was all for bitlocker and the reason for the cut off as the older module had sever security issues ( you could get the keys by connecting a device on the communication connection between the module and another part which doesn't work on 2.0 ). it was not arbitrary and had nothing to do with cpus just that TPM 2.0 support on motherboards was relatively new.

[@GoldenNada]

which is just a 6th gen refresh, nothing much changed on the cpu from 6th to 10th gen other than core count.

[@PenguTT44-sh2oe]

When and if windows 10 reaches End of Life support unless windows 12 is alot different from windows 11 then I'll be switching full time to Linux.

[@JrFalls]

NOT LINUX!! WHY NOT MACOS?!?!

[@TomCee53]

MacOS, not at that price. 😮

[@AtrixRBX]

@@JrFallsyeah I’m not shelling out 1,900$ for a laptop that will not get support/updates like macOS major updates/ in 2 years.

[@NotePortal]

@@JrFalls MacOS is complete ass, everything made from apple is shit.

[@JoeEnderman]

Start on Mint I'd say. Or maybe Pop!_OS. If you have to use Arch for more modern systems then I don't know what to recommend yet, but I am tempted to say Garuda. I could say hundreds of others, but choice paralysis is real and I want to provide you with the baseline that gets you off the ground fastest.

[@bgjck]

I get why Microsoft is limiting what PCs can upgrade to the newest version of Windows but computer from like 5 years ago should definetly still be able to the newest version of Windows

[@1centimetre]

It's worse when you think of Mac having a yearly upgrade schedule. And they sure like to break compatibility with apps for some reason. It's pointless to buy a perpetual license app on their platform, unless you want to forego updates and patches and stick on El Capitan or whatever. Not to forget, they have the most arbitrary cutoff like Auto captioning being exclusive on M1, when Windows 11 allows Live captions for every machine that runs the OS.

[@TrapTech]

@@1centimetre Cap!!!! -Written from a M1 MacBook AIR that's arbitrarily running alll software he did on Day 1 of release with ZERO issues with perpetually licensed software and I AM ON BETAS.

[@night_light2867]

Bruh learn math 5 years ago supports windows 11 and for 12 ai is optional if you dont have it will use it as an online service

[@DavidStruveDesigns]

It's a total lie from the start - if your system can run Windows 10 fine, it can absolutely run 11 fine too because they're literally the SAME EXACT OS. All they've done is UI design tweaks and changed some internal linking and moved some items around. That's it. It's the exact same OS, it claims it "needs" TPM but then doesn't ACTUALLY make use of it AT ALL (you can even turn TPM off entirely after installing 11 and it won't complain at all) - which is why so many people have forced 11 onto their slightly older systems that it was CLAIMED it wouldn't work on, and it works perfectly fine. And that exact same hardware WILL also be able to run Windows 12 when it inevitably gets released, because again it's all the exact same OS underneath the shiny appearance.

[@ibizenco]

My computer from 2012 (with a 2500K) can run Windows 10 (Shhh, don't tell Microsoft...)

[@mda187]

All the mess that Microsoft made with Windows 11 (TPM requirements, forced Microsoft accounts, lousy UI, etc.) made me switch my main PC to Linux. I keep a Windows 10 box to play games, but I don't do any day-to-day on Windows anymore (no banking, web surfing, KZbin, etc.) This deal with Windows 12 stuff is making me happy I made the switch. Other people should look into it, too (or make the jump to MacOS, which I also run). Microsoft wants to play stupid games, they can get stupid prizes. I can probably risk having a Windows 10 box just for games.

[@lordcorgi6481]

Windows 11 not being able to run on a Ryzen 1800x is completely ridiculous.

[@CommodoreFan64]

Agreed that's crazy for a CPU from 2017, as I just took my old HP work PC from around 2011 with an Intel Core i7 2600S(4 cores/8 threads), and an AMD R7 350 2GB GPU(best the mobo will take that I have in stock) with 16GB DDR3 RAM, a 500GB SSD, and refreshed it for my great nephew using Manjaro Gnome Linux, and it still runs basic games, and daily task just fine on a 24in 1080p 75Hz monitor with the latest Linux kernel updates, so I really feel Linux is the way forward, as MS pulls more, and more of their anti consumer BS!!

[@darknightmike10yearsago]

It can. Burn Rufus to a flash drive and bypass TPM 2.0 check to install Windows 11.

[@niffuM4205]

@@darknightmike10yearsagotheres really no point in installing 11 if you gotta bypass stuff you’re better off with 10 until you buy hardware capable of running 11 without any bypassing 💀

[@arcadeportal32]

Get that Linux Mint, like many are doing and get away from the AI mess

[@CommodoreFan64]

@@arcadeportal32 Hell no, Ubuntu, and distros based on it like mainline Mint are on the decline due to all of Conicals BS like trying to force SNAP packages, & trying to kill things like 32 libs many programs still rely on like games(no 32bit libs would make Linux like modern Mac OS for gaming), it's better to go with Arch, or an easy distro like Manjaro based on Arch(Steam OS is based on Arch), or an easy to use independent distro like Solus with Gnome on Manjaro and Budgie on Solus being my 2 current favorite DE's(Desktop Environments).

[@TheTrulyInsane]

ATM Tech here - Most ATMs are running 10 now, there are still a few out there running 7. I'm not sure if they will go the 11/12 route when it comes time, or try and pay for the extended support.. but yeah, as of now, I just upgraded the last Win 7 machine in my area to 10 a couple weeks ago.

[@Alice_Fumo]

I would've bet money on those running some sort of Linux without exception. Good thing I never bet on that. Actually.. come to think of it, I think I've seen photos of ATMs displaying bluescreens before.

[@half-qilin]

I’m gonna run Windows 12 on my 2012 MacBook Pro and nobody’s gonna be able to stop me. I do what I want with my tech, minimum specs my ass!

[@SilverStormShadow]

I genuinely can't believe that Microsoft would release a whole new version of Windows when their current version hasn't even become the standard yet. It feels very unnecessary. It's probably because 10 lasted for so long but I feel like we have barely seen what Windows 11 is capable of and now they're upgrading again? It just seems crazy to me.

[@asinglefrenchfry]

Just use windows 10 LTSC, will be supported until 2032 so you won’t have to worry about security or being forced into any of the windows 11 or 12 nonsense

[@AkihikoJunichi]

That is not how it works my friend. Windows 10 will be be exposed to attack by malicious without any latest protection. Software update support will also go bad with time.

[@asinglefrenchfry]

⁠@@AkihikoJunichiDo you know what LTSC is? I’m not talking about normal windows 10 that will lose support next year. LTSC is a different version of windows which stands for “long term support channel”, it will get security updates for years to come. There’s a community of people who use this version due to its benefits of being a ‘debloated’ version of windows. Besides, realistically a lot of people won’t actually use it until 2032, and would likely upgrade to an LTSC version of windows 11 before then.

[@AkihikoJunichi]

@@asinglefrenchfry make sense now, Thank you

[@uglyjihad]

​@@asinglefrenchfryyeah, the issue is actually getting it

[@djadam-uk]

My windows ME still works perfectly fine for me

[@nosbig98]

So, a couple of things... Linux user for 25 years; it's so much more usable for regular folks than ever before. It's inertia stopping folks from using it; you know, the thing you're used to. Windows 12 is going to be the launching pad for running Windows in the cloud and paying a monthly subscription for your OS. They are already doing some of that for corporate customers, but I expect it to really ramp in the next release of Windows. The environmental impacts of Microsoft's actions are completely insane. My current workstation is nearly 10 years old. I know that I don't game; I want to play EQ2, and I will when I upgrade. That being said, the majority of folks online are just wanting to browse and do productivity tasks. They're *not* going to need all the advanced horsepower which is being pushed in newer generations of CPU and GPU hardware. So, the incitement of folks to trash their systems to get something new because BillG or SatyaM tells them they have to is already a huge burden. Then, the power consumed by these newer systems eats up precious energy. Finally, the energy use and materials consumption to build the datacenters to run training of these LLMs and other AI models or running the "in the cloud" instances for complex queries and prompts is going to tear through the capacity we have for existing datacenters. The ethics of AI are so bad, even with the best of intentions... Encourage longer utilization of hardware by using Linux and other systems which are respectful of user privacy and the resources given to it.

[@zoomzoom8704]

I've tried to get into Linux a couple of times. I'd say the biggest pain point is That you can't do everything with the GUI. I CAN use the console and type in stuff to force things to work, but that feels like actively fighting with the system and it's about the worst user experience one can have if they're not into coding and the like. Not to mention newer generations are less Tech literate then millennials like me (I've ran into a lot of gen z that can't figure out a file explorer) Of course I understand that people enjoy tinkering and that those kinds of people love Linux but to me that feels like work that is preventing me from doing the thing I actually want to do, which is why I have a really nice PC I custom built and still do a 90% of my gaming on console.... I work 12-hour days most days. I want to hit a button and play my game. Not spend my entire off time trying to get something to work like it It's supposed to and end up going to bed without ever playing The game I was excited for.

[@romulo2714]

@@zoomzoom8704 Again, as he said, Linux really isn't as bad nowadays, I can pick a Windows exclusive game that doesn't feature a kernel-level anti-cheat and play it out of the box with Steam's Proton, no wrestling the terminal or anything, and improving that technology is in Valve's best interest, since they have a whole console that relies on it. The biggest hassle with gaming nowadays on Linux is simply that companies are trying to push anti-cheat software to be more aggressive and that makes Steam's Proton or Wine get caught on it, but it's mostly just competitive games, Indie games, Co-op games and Singleplayer games are all fine.

[@ignoto82dr]

@@zoomzoom8704 I had a bad time trying to play on linux. Until the breaktrought of today. If you try linux for gaming, try garuda or linux mint. Garuda have wine and proton plus a lot of emulator already installed from the go, plus a welcome screen that really useful. The dark theme is almost baked in the OS thoo, so be careful of that if you dont like these things. On the other hands, other theme (mostly dark but some good for daylight) are two to three click away, just like the system update and everything. It have almost all the tools you need for gaming (I still need a FPS counter). dr4gonized is more mac alike, XFCE is more windows like (and lighter on your resource). garuda is a rolling distro, so the upgrade are by single package, meaning each component get an update as soon as it get out. At last, the efi boot loader is really simple to configure and a joy to watch. Should you choose garuda, take the dr4gonized gaming version, you'll save time later on installing all the neat apps you'll need to game. Mint is... strange. A good strange, but strange none the less. It have winetrick, but it need wine to be installed. On the other hand, both wine and lutris are ready to install from the get go and in like a search and two click. Theme management is wonderful and there are a LOT of theme to choose from. The welcome screen is much less friendly than garuda, but it does its work. The system update are a click away from the welcome screen, but they are a bit harder to find in the options. All the versions use a windows alike UI, cinnamon is the one made by mint's creators (and so the more stable), XFCE is the lighter version, mate is for those that still love gnome and edge is the iso you download if you have problems with the other version. While not a rolling distro, it have an update app that do its dirty work very well. The efi bootloader REQUIRE console working (little in true) and it's just basic stuff. Should you choose mint, before you start google what you'll need to download to play your games (minigalaxy, steam, ect) At last, no matter what distro you choose, I'll tell you the secret no one told me before and made me waste two week of trial and errors until I found the video of an indian guy here on youtube that explained me where I were going wrong: COPY THE GAME FOLDERS ON A LINUX PARTITION! I solved all wine/lutris compatibility problems just like that. Wine dont play nice with NTFS and fat32, so if you think, like me, "oh well, I've already downloaded 120GB of game, why should I do again? I'll just put the pat in the app". Nope. The launcher crashed, the game closed itself before even launching, the dang SO did freeze and corrupt itself twice. As soon as I did copy the two genshin folders in the linux partition all those problem became smoke in the air. The only bug left is that when you type the password you cant see the font (I think it's a white on white problem) but it's not that important. The game itself go smooth as a criminal.

[@nefireous2720]

@@zoomzoom8704 wit Bazzite and KDE I never interact with terminal.

[@roccociccone597]

@@zoomzoom8704 unless you try to change some very advanced things you won't touch the terminal which by the way even in Windows land things are done with powershell. And are you telling me that editing the registry with it's plain stupid design or doing GPO policies is easier for an end user? please

[@DJPalsyP]

The irony is, Windows 11 isn't that stable or good.

[@Telemachus2814]

Not ready for 12? Windows 11 wasn't even supposed to _exist_ but then they changed their minds and dropped it on us and it sucks... I, for one, refuse to upgrade from 10 until I have no other choice.

[@profosist]

Correct they were just going to discontinue compatibility with a bunch of systems in the middle of Windows 10 support and that would have went over amazing

[@Connie_TinuityError]

The main reason why they changed their mind and dropped Windows 11 on us was because of the failed Windows 10X project. A lot of the design cues and other things that was designed for 10X was chosen not to go to waste and be used to develop a new version of Windows, in this case Windows 11. If you ask me, had the Windows 10X project never happened, then we likely wouldn't have Windows 11.

[@profosist]

@@Connie_TinuityError correct that gave them an out and the ability to make a new windows rather than chop off support for an existing one. also companies want a new piece of software to Market because newer is always better far more likely to sell something when there's a new number on the box even if it's not actually new

[@thing2237]

There's always Linux

[@Miss-Foe]

I ditched windows and I'm so glad I became one of the 2% using Linux.

[@Darkman03]

The sad reality is for many outside the IT and Security communities, security updates and patches are looked at as an inconvenience rather than a necessity. "I dOn'T cArE aBoUt ReGuLaR uPdAtEs BeCaUsE tHeY mAkE mY pHoNe DiFfErEnT" was a regular argument that frequently came up in the Android vs iOS debates before Google and Samsung managed to get their updates in order.

[@notkudu]

I heard poeple saying that updates makes thier phone/pc slower wich makes me crings so hard and then I had to calmily explain why they should update

[@BigFatCone]

I knew a guy bragging about never updating neither apps nor the OS in his phone. Bragged about it.

[@maverick9708]

@@notkudu both can be true, the software updates will make your system less vulnerable, but they can also add more planned obsolescence into the software like apple and Samsung both legally had to admit that they did

[@doctahjonez]

They kind of are. Half of the updates Microsoft did to Windows 10 and 7 between 2016 and now were literally just bloat and data mining, messing with people's settings, changing default browser etc. It's their own fault that people are recognizing the way they treat consumers.

[@doctahjonez]

​@@notkuduThey literally do. Not always intentionally, but not all updates are equal.

[@blaisetheginger]

My PC is a mid range gaming PC that I built about 4 years ago. It’s never been able to support windows 11 according to microscam, but there’s no reason that it shouldn’t have been able to. It’s seriously a money grab.

[@LePedant]

8th gen Intel came out in 2017, 2nd gen Ryzen came out in 2018. If you bought new parts 4 years ago, they will be Win 11 compatible.

[@maverick9708]

@@LePedant unless it doesn't have TPM 2.0, then you're screwed

[@LePedant]

@@maverick9708 8th Gen Intel and 2nd Gen Ryzen both have TPM 2.0 built in to the CPU.

[@outtheredude]

Might be a software TPM 2.0 setting you can turn on in the UEFI BIOS (along with turning on SecureBoot) to "magically" make your PC officially compatible with Windows 11. (At least if you're not upgrading unofficially with a USB Rufus stick. ;-) ).

[@sandwichqueen]

I'm switching from Windows to UwUntu. Linux still has some quirks, but it runs quicker. There's a lot less backend stuff happening and while it might slow down as I use it, I have been able to run things faster than a fresh install of Windows. I found out I could get a program that can run epic games, so I can play all my games I got for free there and still get free games. Then there's proton and the only issue I have is my drawing tablet. Lets just hope they continue with the every other OS trend and Windows 12 is good.

[@matekiss7064]

Please if you switch to Linux, dont run Uwuntu, it's a meme distro

[@sandwichqueen]

@@matekiss7064 I know. That's why I did it. It's actually pretty good though

[@JoeEnderman]

​@@sandwichqueenOwO is that a meme Linux distro you have there? (I hate myself for typing this)

[@Dusty_B]

Who’s to say if they’ll just start having updates in general “as a service”? Would you really put it past them? Oh you want security updates? $40 a year. *year passes* Oh now it’s $60 a year, fees and whatnot. *year passes* Okay $20 a month. Inflation and what have you. Etc etc etc

[@kappaklaus2671]

Microsoft Windows Battle Pass

[@EvanNakagawa]

Yeah, I have no interest in 11, 10 does everything I need it too and I'm comfortable. I don't see 12 changing that, but I'll jump when I need to for security.

[@BigFatCone]

I don't have an interest in Windows in general, so I'm on 11.

[@Aaron48219]

Win 2k and 7 were the best versions. I want to go back.

[@kappaklaus2671]

7 is still fine to use

[@LPcrazy_88]

The only reason I updated to Windows 11 was because it supposedly handles E cores and P cores better than 10 and support was ending. The reality is i played demanding games with windows 10 and 11 and saw no real performance increase with 11. I told myself I would get used to 11 and here I am hating 11 just as much as I did when I installed it. StarAllBack does the heavy lifting on making 11 mostly usable but if 10 was being supported for longer time I would still be on Windows 10.

[@mecyanned]

Just some help: get windows 10 IoT enterprice ltsc 2021 - updates till 2032 +esu bypass till 2035

[@LPcrazy_88]

@@mecyanned Now that is an interesting option. I am gonna try putting this on a laptop to see if I have any software conflicts and might just full dive on this. Thanks!

[@mecyanned]

@@LPcrazy_88 No problem, you can try custom isos but its honestly your choice - currently making an extremely modded iso

[@mecyanned]

@@LPcrazy_88 im not telling you to use any custom isos im just reccomending them

[@LPcrazy_88]

@@mecyanned Yeah I hear ya, I did dabble with Atlas OS last year but I forget why I stopped using it. I'll just play around with some options to see if any roadblocks pop up.

[@walter_marcus]

As a 8700k user, i tried windows 11 and it ran soo slow and laggy on a sata ssd i just installed windows 10 and never looked back. it takes 2 mins to load steam on 11 for some reason after a restart while windows 10 does it within 10 seconds after logging in, files and stuff load faster compared to 11 as well, overall its not worth to go to 11 or 12 if they arent going to optimize their OS for the normal same core CPUs that dont have the E core P core stuff. this includes everything from 8-11th gen. Same for the Ryzen stuff. i remember windows 11 straight up crashing and barely running on AMD CPUs for ages before they patched it and what not. Seeing how microsoft is more focussed on supporting ARM,im just gooona assume all x86 CPUs are probably goona run like garbage on windows 12 compared to 10. windows 11 feels more heavy and bloated for unwanted reasons. the killer feature was android support but they apparently stopped supporting making it mostly the same as 10 so why even bother. im probably going to switch or dualboot linux for my privacy and security oriented stuff like banking and what not after windows 10 stops getting support but lets be real, microsoft probably will extend the EOL by another 3-6 years and keep it going like they did with 7 back in the day.

[@archelonprime]

As someone that used to be a Core i7 8700K owner and user, it looks like I dodged a bad situation! But my experiences with Windows 11 weren't so pleasant either, despite having tried it on better hardware.

[@fist003]

no problem running on my 8087k with NVME ssd

[@darknightmike10yearsago]

I have Windows 11 installed on an NVMe SSD with an i7-8700 and it runs just fine. Maybe try running a clean install of Windows 11.

[@HydrasHead]

@@darknightmike10yearsago Yeah runs just fine on my Thinkcentre with a 8600.

[@digitalmagik]

that kirby shirt is awesome

[@marcustmusic]

I remember the "limitation" to "upgrade" to Windows 11 was the TPM 2 chip. It would be interesting what excuse Microsoft comes up with to make you buy a new PC even if you bought one last year. I got so tired of Windows getting worse and I sucked up an bought a Mac and recently I figured out how to run GamePortingToolKit and I was able to convert some Steam games that were Windows exclusive onto Mac. Runs pretty well on my M1 MacBook Air. Honestly doing all that to avoid spending several hundred dollars every 2 years was the best decision I made.

[@phoenixrising4995]

Archlinux over here.

[@supercellex4D]

Yeah macs last a while I’m currently transferring to an M3… Not because of perf issues, no, because I fucking broke my last laptop like an idiot I expect this thing to boot a decade later and still feel fine

[@RickyT15]

With the old TMP 1.0 chip the bitlocker keys aren't secure and a simple device on one of its connection cables could get you keys, this didn't work on TPM 2.0.

[@kylespevak6781]

You went with the most miserable option, congrats

[@matthews2243]

I have never met an Apple user who actually saves money, they're just better at getting you to feel good about spending it. I'll just swap to Linux since my hardware still runs everything I want but doesn't support 11. That's how you *actually* make sound financial decisions.

[@kensmith5694]

Those "older" machines would be just fine for running Linux mint. Linux Mint comes with a solitaire and you can use it to watch cat videos so it does everything most users need,

[@mvcs3385]

Who needs Windows 12?! I’m still on windows XP 🗿

[@sheska8207]

Im holding microsoft to their word, win10 will be my last ever version of windows. Simply going Linux whenever win10 really dies.

[@evankalbach9985]

Surprised that someone has not made an addon card that will bump your system up. Supported TPM levels, filesystem, etc. Then we have to ask how many people just need a machine that does email and web browsing? Lots of options once to figure out your use case for a PC.

[@turboboy0]

windows 11 is garbage. windows 10 is good but windows 7 was the best.

[@georgeceposu6495]

Don't forget about Windows XP.

[@_____alyptic]

Windows 10 was meh for me

[@DemonicMeWasHere]

For me, my favorite os i ever used isnt even windows. Its a specific linux distro

[@aleksandersats9577]

Nah Windows 10 isn't good. It's only good when modded.

[@thelemn6670]

Windows 10 and 11 are fine and I game, code and mine on it. Have it windows 10 both desktops and 11 on my laptop. Nah yall forgetting what real garbage is and that’s windows 8… if you didn’t use windows 8 you don’t know what real hell is like windows 10 and 11 are perfectly fine they do what they’re suppose to do. Also it may just be me when I downloaded windows 11 I really didn’t noticed much of a difference from windows 10

[@zyxyuv1650]

What you're *actually* getting with Windows 12 is: - Higher memory usage - More processes running - More threads being used - More handles opened - More services running - More dpc/isr latency spikes - New AI-based version of Clippy The rest of the features are meaningless to anyone except a corporate IT department.

[@Chibibowa]

Just pass it through NTLite and you can enjoy windows updates without compromising on performance since said modules that you listed won't even exist in the installation image xD. Every complaint made by mainstream media doesn't hold 1 second when I confront them with one of my installations. All fuss because people at large cannot use PC's. They were pampered by applications and don't even know the name of their browser, let alone the ability to do some light maintenance. And microsoft is capitalizing on it like sputnik. Currently downloading 24H2 and will process it. I'm sure I won't have any issues running anything after it.

[@cael_1303]

A lot are still using Windows 10 because they (like me) just don't want to upgrade to 11 until they work out the kinks or just currently prefer Windows 10. Eventually I realize I will have to upgrade but if at all possible (I have Windows 11 on my laptop that I had originally used a microsoft account for but now mainly use a local account, unlike my main PC) I will only be doing it with a local account, which is also another reason why a lot of people are sticking with 10 for now.

[@Darnellreyes12]

iam still using windows 10 and have a copy of windows 11 digital so in case of future upgrade

[@bricktasticanimations4834]

I'm using Windows 10 on my laptop and our family computer still runs Windows 7. On my desktop computer I have Windows 98 Second Edition.

[@assadalzaher]

the problem is that my PC (6700K) dose not support win 11

[@cyanideceloras]

Windows 7 was peak I wish we could go back 😢 ​@@bricktasticanimations4834

[@supercellex4D]

@@assadalzaher yes it does enable fTPM in the UEFI My 6500 worked fine with win11 Fuck that UI doe

[@Dyl_Apple]

Lmao I think the windows doors joke flew under the radar

[@NottJoeyOfficial]

One thing to note is that the paid Windows 10 security updates will be available to the general public, even though previous versions of Windows were not. It will be $50 the first year, $100 the second year, and $150 the third year. This will allow up to 3 3accounts logged into the Microsoft account the subscribed to it to get Windows 10 security updates while subscribed.

[@RideTheSkies]

does fan control still benefit me if it only picks up two sensors? there off brand that I got with a fairly cheap tower that has really good airflow. CPU might hit 60 with heavy gaming. GPU doesn't get overstressed neither. I expect to probably change out the fans in like 1.5 years assuming they'll give out in that time

[@PixelPusherGames]

You have to use Windows 10 if you’re trying to do VR

[@notChocoMilk]

not anymore

[@PixelPusherGames]

@@notChocoMilk for real?

[@R1ck3stR1ck]

I'm running W11 using a R5 3600 in a Asus Tuf B450M Gaming Plus II mobo, and that was a direct install, no need to use the hacky workaround to install it. I think it may be later B450 boards that have the correct chips on board, but there certainly are B450 boards that run W11

[@thancrus]

honestly speaking windows 10 was so open to run on things ... probably so the could get as many as possible off of older OSs. Luckily the pc i just replaced could run windows 11 just barely ...i5 8400. I just built a new pc for the first time in over 6 years.... i have one of those OLD micro dell machines from like 2015. it doesnt have the capability or the capacity to run 11. So to get use to not having it on windows since i have to swap anyway to keep using it as a basic stream machine i put Zorin on it... kinda made it nice to use . Though its internal wifi isnt the best but that could be the machine itself and not linux

[@SilverfoxJB]

I've never tried Linix, I guess I may be about to! Not everyone can afford to just junk their computers

[@CommodoreFan64]

This 100%, I've been a big fan of Linux because of this for years. my favorite distros are as follows, Manjaro Gnome(most of my system runs it), Solus Budgie(for the one that don't play nice on Manjaro), and Linux Mint DE(Debian Edition) I stay away from Ubuntu, and distros based on it with all their SNAP packages, and other controversies. Good Luck, and happy computing fellow Penguin. 🐧

[@candyman.5757]

why do people think that win 11 is bad , it's very stable now with updates and supports every modding that you probably wanted to do , on top of that it has native hdr ...i can accept that there are some loop-a-hoops in settings because the same thing works in one menu but not in the other menu , it actually tells you to go to the first menu ...but apart from that it's pretty solid if you have powertoys and UTW 5 installed

[@candyman.5757]

@@moepikd but you can technically get around all of that and that too pretty easily . when we don't require hardware to be backwards compatible , why do we expect that a newer piece of code should always be good on decade old machines , no one buys that software anyways , everyone tries pirate it except enterprise based applications

[@NikolakiH]

I tried W11 for a few days and went back to 10. I guess a lot of others did the same

[@Xmetalfanx]

i am not going to say its perfect by any means but i am glad midway (and i liked WIn7) through Windows 7 when i saw what WIn8 and everything after it was becoming .... i switched to Linux and never looked back ... only Windows issues I have is fixing someone else's PC I have a family member with a 2013 and Windows 10 that .. well 10 cripples it really ... it's still old but i swear an SSD (i may give them an ssd as a gift) + Linux ... that will act like a new machine ... i just know it will help

[@Xmetalfanx]

not sure why (some of it IS marketing BS) ... everything having "AI everything" creeps me out. .. just give me an OS ... leave AI out of it ... where IF someone wants to install it, they can but its not installed by default

[@Xmetalfanx]

another great thing for Linux is that MANY people just want to do basic tasks (even stuff LibreOffice stuff .. .not super basic) .... OLD machines can still be fully used and used in that way with Linux ... you dont have to get your say OS's maker's approval to run it on "this or that" machine.

[@DekcerwTeg]

I mean, all you need on desktops is a TPM 2.0 module, which is the primary reason some computers aren't compatible with W11. Those cost like $20 bucks, go straight into a USB 2.0 header, and allows you to keep all your (non-dinoaur) hardware.

[@yentl555]

Imagine if Microsoft dropped support for Windows XP (when Vista had been out for 2 years) or dropped Windows 7 support after 2 years of Windows 8. I don't know whats wrong with Microsoft....

[@LePedant]

Windows 10 came out 2015. They are dropping support after 10 years, not 2 years.

[@Raptor_3_fire_37]

what happened to 1ghz 1c1t cpu and 512mb ram as minimum requirements for windows

[@RobertFixit]

I would like to see a “light” version of Windows 11 that natively works on older computers. They could probably get away with a monthly charge instead of a key, like 365. That would permanently destroy Windows 10.

[@omnimater]

My only complaint with Windows 11 is that I'm one of the allegedly less than 2% of users that are little gremlin freaks who like their taskbar ON THE SIDE. Windows 11 removed the ability to move the taskbar at all.

[@myhandlewastakenandIgaveup]

Screw that! I always run the taskbar on top ans swear by it.

[@drewsmith5040]

If i could go back to 10 i would. 11 is noticeably slower overall but especially for gaming. that’s my personal experience. the reason people could be installing windows 10 on new pcs is because the keys are a lot less cheaper and then they can just easily update the pc. it’s a money life hack

[@peytonkinnamon5318]

Can we all bring Windows 7 market share back up? We can do it! It's not to late!

[@jaseman]

When Win 11 came out I just used the hack to get around the TPM chip stuff and it works fine even on my really old PC's. I expect whatever 'requirements' will be in Windows 12 - there will be someone that will figure out how to get around it.

[@notkudu]

I am so happy for being a linux user so I don't have to worry about this shait

[@SuperHomeGamer]

Yeah but when you update your kernel. Let’s hope you can still boot. Only thing stopping me from hopping on.

[@evepreviouslyknownaslenenjoyer]

@@SuperHomeGamer My kernel updates all the time and it's fine, and in the rare case it doesn't boot you can revert to an old one like really easily, at least on Linux Mint

[@somecallmesean_]

same i have went all unix based (macos for work and linux for gaming)

[@MoonberryJam93]

​@@SuperHomeGamerSkill issue. It's not hard to update your kernel, nor is it hard to recover from a failed update.

[@DavidJonSpem]

@@SuperHomeGamer don't you keep your old kernel around in case it doesn't boot?

[@RoamingRamble]

i am getting a feeling that there will be 2 options for windows 12 either the machine will be able to run windows11 or running windows 24 Online paying a monthly feed denuding how much CPU and Ram you want and this will run on PCs running windows 10 with Edge browsers .

[@enigmaoftheechidna6279]

I also haven't left Windows 10 yet, I personally don't need Windows 12.

[@pacthesir]

We weren't even ready for Windows 11, so how the fudge did Microsoft have the audacity to think we will be able to run Windows 12... Also the push of Co-pilot drives me fucking nuts... I swear, I hate the word "A.I." It makes me squirm

[@anthonytitone]

Another reason windows 10 might be growing is older windows version users finally upgrading. I know at my office a lot of old Windows 7 devices got updated recently

[@orangeheartguy]

Another reason why im excited for 12 is due to the new ARM chips from Qualcomm that seem promising against Apple's M-series PCs. I think thats the game changer, not even AI.

[@andreanastacio9548]

The tricky thing about these specific stats is that they tll us how mamy people run windows 10 vs 11, and not how many people CAN run windows 11. Windows 11 requirements were pretty brutal at the time because they only officially supported hardware that was still relatively recent, but the real killer of older pc support was the TPM chip (and if you require a board feature that is relatively recent, why not make the other requirements also be semi recent hardware as well). It has now been a number of years since windows 11 released, so I`d be willing to bet that a vary large portion of current win10 users don`t upgrade because they don`t want to, and not because they can`t (gaming performance concerns, microsoft collecting data concerns, constant edge shenanigan concerns, inferior ui concerns, ect), and they might waiting to see how windows 12 shapes up before upgrading their copy of win10 I personally understand those who don`t want to upgrade, because as a win11 user basicly since launch (I happened to buy a new laptop right around win11`s release) it`s fine and I do like it well enough overall, but I did prefer the ui and overall Ux of windows10

[@histerical90]

I'm still on 10... tried 11 and it sucks, it has ads, it keeps pushing office 365 down your throat even if I never open a spreadsheet on my pc, it has a lot of telemetry stuff which I don't need, it has a useless AI and widgets which can't be disabled from the Os only with 3rd party cleaning apps... and it still doesn't find your apps in the search bar... so... no improvement what so ever, it just got worse...

[@WolfySnowy]

Windows 11 is resource heavier than windows 10 currently, so I'm sticking with it till end of the year.

[@megachips9478]

Windows 11 can be installed on pretty much anything if you create an install USB drive with the tool Rufus. Worked fine ever since it has been released on my i5 7th gen Laptop without issues and I'm using that for work daily. No problems with updates, drivers, activation or anything - obviously they could lock me out at any time in theory with an update but so far they haven't seemed in a rush to do so. Seems also fairly common to install it on old hardware - preventing all those users from using their computer seems like a PR nightmare even if it is an unofficial method.

[@KiLDELTA]

I just recently purchased a PC but it is a Ryzen 7 5700x on a Tuf Gaming Pro II motherboard and running on Windows 11. What i will do, same as to my older Windows 10/7/XP/98 PCs before, I will keep using Windows 11 until they cease support on that as well. I only move up once full support is near gone.

[@jamesli62]

I want that Kirby shirt

[@TheONE10X]

right?! my very first thought

[@hiRyan329329]

I betcha for a lot of these older (but powerful) systems they'll simply get bios updates that enable support. Just like how TPM 2.0 was enabled for many peoples PCs via simple bios updates allowing Windows 11 support instead of requiring a onboard TPM chip like they originally wanted . This obviously only helps the tech inclined and those that buy older hardware pre-updated but its still a thing to remember

[@Col_Crunch]

The thing about the Win 11 support that is glossed over repeatedly in this video is the reason that some machines are not supported. While I agree that Microsoft should have made windows 11 work on "unsupported" machines regardless, the reason the unsupported hardware is unsupported is not arbitrary. They are literally missing a bit of hardware (TPM or fTPM) that Microsoft decided was required to run Win 11 for security reasons.

[@racquinox]

I don't want cloud services I don't want ads I don't want AI I just wanna google stuff, and play games and not have my OS get in the way.

[@turbolenza35]

My current gaming desktop is not compatible with Windows 11... I am financial difficulties and can't upgrade... Next year I'll have to move to Linux because Windows 10 will reach EOL..

[@roberthearty3516]

You say that the reason people haven't switched to Windows 11 is down to not having compatible hardware, my pc is compatible with W11, but

[@JoeEnderman]

...it simply is not as fun to use. They made unnecessary changes that harm the experience more than help it, and frankly Linux Mint does everything I wanted from Windows but with less privacy invasion. I want to like Windows 11, I really do. But Microsoft forgot we were the customers and not the advertising agencies, so why should I support them on thier goal of money over me? I apologize for putting words in your mouth if you disagree.

[@prestonhilchey6825]

Tried upgrading 10 -11, got stuck in an infinite repair loop somewhere between converting my boot drive from MBR to GPT AND turning on secure boot, probably ride the windows 10 train till it crashes cause I don't want to get stuck

[@yepyepwaka9457]

Is Noone going to mention Matt's audio is off.

[@rhyami]

I ditched Windows when my PC died earlier this year. I don't like what I saw of my husband's install of Windows 11. I bought a Mac and like it very much.

[@PabloLopez-tz2zq]

macOS for Work, ps5 & switch for gaming, gaming pc for collecting dust and getting annoyed by Windows updates.

[@vishesh_n]

Would there be a new market for NPU cards, like GPUs, to upgrade old PCs?

[@BLOODYWEREWOLF9]

For this reasons that's why I bit the bullet and got a pc that supports DDR5 end of last year to be updated for the future because of AI and such

[@AtrixRBX]

Austin, my grandmother has a 5 year old HP (I think it’s a stream?) and it has a penguin gold. IT HAS 11????

[@thhawk1]

Alot of users don't know how to adjust their bios. So it support the certain settings.

[@StolenJoker84]

“… And nothing that you’ll actually want to use” 😂 0:35

[@FlowOrSmth]

built my first gaming pc. been on 11 for a month and I'm already sick of it. Probably gonna switch to linux.

[@RoamingRamble]

actually we just got a New Laptop a few weeks ago and it came from manufacturer with windows 10 and when we booted it we could continue windows 10 but it was pushy about switching to windows 11 , for the record this was a dell lap top .

[@NotePortal]

Recently switched to linux (Tuxedo OS) on all my devices (except my phone) its been great and much better than Windows. I really do see linux as the future. As you mentioned I think many gamers on windows 10 would not want to upgrade to windows 11 even if 10 loses support and so we will probably see Linux get a HUGEEEEEEEE jump in marketshare.

[@SmaugMedia]

As much as i do personally like windows 11 and upgrade everything i can to it, not every single PC i own is Windows 11 compatible i feel like it should be supported till 2027 - 2030 it's still a solid OS my i7 6000series laptop still more than fast enough for browsing and light tasks even has TPM2.0 i checked

[@nenadcocic]

I recently, as a test, installed Windows 11 on a 15y old AMD Athlon II X2 215 with a 4GB RAM. While it is much slower then a modern PC, and the process of installing all the updates took some time, but after that is done it is more than a functional PC. It can play up to 1440p KZbin videos without problems. You cant play new games ofc, but as a multimedia PC it is OK. So much for MS system requirements :) This is a dual core CPU with a measly 4GB of DDR2 ram

[@elchancho8432]

I like Windows 11 I am curious though why do people not like it? I like Co Pilot as well

[@Indominus-Prime]

Well for me and my father it is the invasive telemetry apps running as well as it recording what apps and software you use and is sent to Microsoft

[@MENSA.lady2]

I still use Windows XP Pro. does all I need and the bad boys have stopped attacking it. Too few targets.

[@webbopwork6054]

Don't forget, with everything being an subscription service, and especially Microsoft having a lot of subscription services. Is it at all unlikely they will make the Windows 12 license a subscription? I mean they are the ones that made you pay for online on consoles, something that is free on PC, for now.

[@phr3dmcc0y]

I cannot believe you guys didnt mention just upgrading the mobo and CPU to one that supports 11. Most ddr4 systems that run 10 can get newer boards and cpus that will allow you to upgrade to 11. You also didnt mention that there are ways to force 11 to install on the older hardware.

[@morganmedrano920]

People who actually use computers, are not like console people. We won't take crap and be happy with it. We didn't like Win ME, Vista, 8, or 11... they know we won't accept moving to the cloud. We want control of out systems.

[@PWingert1966]

You won't be able to run Windows 12 unless there is a co-pilot key on the keyboard, and it maps to co-pilot. If your machine does not have a co-pilot chip on the motherboard or built into the processor it won't run Windows 12.

[@borderlandsdude3543]

Matt's voice sounds different? Does he have a cold?? It's so odd...

[@scootersfrog]

glad im not alone !

[@dampcribs8405]

He had surgery on his throat (posted on his X)

[@borderlandsdude3543]

@dampcribs8405 thank-you, I don't use X that much. Much appreciated

[@Toby_Q]

Agreed... I think maybe we had AI Matt for this episode.... you can't fool us!

[@carmelwolf129]

i am so ready to jump ship to linux in a few weeks. and i cannot wait for it to start getting more popular.

[@2kar804]

Windows 11 sucks. File explorer crashes constantly or just WILL NOT SEARCH!? Why. Hard to tell the other designers at work windows is superior to their Macs when lately it isn’t..

[@GabrielSouza-yu5sb]

A lot of people won't buy new hardware, these people will continue using W10 even without security updates or will migrate to Linux, people won't just throw their hardware in the trash

[@amirbahalegharn365]

NPU beside SOC or CPU becomes more important. also i know many people who are using core2duo or gen 3 Mobos with win11, so not all win11 users are using 6-8th gen stuff but they are using bypassing methods to use win11. another thing that you ignored is filesystem layout in partitions will completely change compared to previous ones & will be like Android one, which may break some or many older apps & games as locations are changed so only VM will be the possible way to have those instead of multi-OS or sth. Also ARM & riscV will be a major reason to change hardwares for many user whether desktop or laptop as Local AI will need plenty Power to woe flawlessly specially with AI scene realtime creation in games or others usages in 2026-2028 which is impossible in x86 format anymore and gpus in arm with tdp 300W for whole SOC can keep up with 700-1000W X86 cpu+dgpu from amd or nvidia.