We Checked Out HGV EV Charging... But Is It Too Soon?

[@timoliver8940]

There’s an excellent YT channel called The Electric Trucker - there’s a German and an English language channel too. The driver is a software developer who decided to become an electric trucker and it’s really interesting seeing him driving across Europe in huge electric artics. His problem isn’t range it’s finding charge hubs that can take a full size HGV and trailer without needing to unhook the trailer from the cab unit.

[@JuicyJohnEV]

I love his channel!

[@DanTheCox]

in the real world, it doesn't work (I mean by that that a van driver would loose 300+ hours per year of working time). but nice try though.

[@carlainscough6065]

No interest in trucking, but I'm a subscriber to him

[@Chewdadda]

It's a good and interesting channel 👍

[@johniooi3954]

@@DanTheCox As a truck driver has mandatory breaks & driving limits. As the channel has proved he loses no time. Perhaps time that van drivers also faced the same limits.

[@Gazer75]

Quite a few electric Volvos and Scanias hauling cargo in Norway now. Especially the whole sale companies and the grocery chains' cargo terminals are starting to use electric trucks for delivery to the stores from the warehouse. They can do 2-300km on a single charge.

[@patdbean]

Congratulations on 3 million channel views.

[@Travel_Day_Dreams]

Another fascinating update on charging infrastructure. I'd also recommend the Electric Trucker for a terrific insight into the future of HGV development. His vids flag how essential the need is for additional infrastructure for HGV drivers, currently they appear to rely in part on charging areas for cars quite a bit. It's odd to see HGV cabs pulling into charging bays designed for cars but needs must I guess.

[@EverydayLife621]

Give it 2 years & this will be the norm for truckers! - I'm 2 years into an MG4 (30,000 miles), and in 2 years the difference is huge (albeit it 98% of the time its charging at home). I do love the "The Electric Trucker" (Scandinavian??) - which is showing the challenges currently for trucks (the 🔋is 10x what it is in EV cars! - so 350Kw charging = really needed 24x7 for lorries)

[@Birko64]

Already in mainland Europe. As usual UK way behind the curve. USA way behind the-way-behind curve as usual.

[@GruffSillyGoat]

Regarding the UK the HGV usage profile, being a closely packed island nation, mainly favours depot charging or hub to hub charging rather than high power transit charging. For long distance tramper charging the industry analysis has shown that a small number of megawatt charging sites located on major north/south and east/west arteries, and near ports would cover the demand. There are plans to install a few megawatt trial sites to assess how foreseen demand is best served, whether sites are located centrally or at end journey points; with Gridserve and EV Vital/Kempower both already implementing trial sites and BP planning a trial site near the port of Dover/Channel tunnel. The 350 kW type show in Dave's video, of which their are a fair few scattered around the UK, were initially aimed for towing and light commercial vehicles but are now classed as multi-use for HGVs use as well with the uptake of BEVs seen in this segment. This works for the UK as many fixed body and artics HGEVs on the road today are not megawatt charing capable yet.

[@ISuperTed]

USA don’t even know there’s a curve!

[@dominicgoodwin1147]

Great Britain really leads the world in being behind the curve. Once the centre of a proud empire built on leading the world in manufacturing, as China is now, Britain now is focused on making the country so bad that even refugees won’t want to come here.

[@MartinMorris-wz4gx]

Yes, the US seems to be in denial. The eastern side of the country seems to be doing better than the far western side where I live. We are still quite limited to using Tesla chargers for different EV’s compared to the UK. I am impressed with the infrastructure of the UK though. That is why I decided on a range extender vehicle for my first EV. In my city it seems to be better than driving long distance and it being hit or miss for chargers that actually work.

[@byxf3pdrve]

Be interesting to know how an HGV stopping here would record the stop on the tacho. I suspect it would count as 'other work'. I doubt drivers are going to be pleased about their rest stop being enforced at a specific location/time.

[@Jimages_uk]

If they plug in, then leave the vehicle to go and have something to eat, and have their break away from the truck, it could be recorded as a break even though it is plugged in. The problem is, the truck could end up blocking a charge point if it finished charging before the working break is over. Which is why there would be a need for a lot more of these than would be required for cars. Added to that, the night time charging would be a must for many drivers, but we don't even have enough parking places for truck today, never mind parking places with charging facilities, because they would have to remain there for a minimum of 9, but more often 11 hours. It will be a massive challenge.

[@petergahan9076]

DPD are all electric now. They seem to use public chargers, particularly at Trafford Centre. Lots of Royal Mail delivery vans in Manchester now BEV.

[@solentbum]

On friday morning as I drove into Portsmouth the vehicle just ahead of me was a new all electric artic unit on Trade Plates. The trucks are being delivered.

[@solentbum]

Whilst we have standardised charge plugs, it would help if there was a standard for the position of such plugs . For large vehicles, HGVs, Buses, etc. centre front would make sense, making the socket accessible from both sides, esp. in a drive through charge point. There is no need for the filler to be on the side, only fashion and lazy thinking by vehicle designers. SO many EVs are still designed around 'we've always done it that way'.

[@Madonsteamrailways]

In my Renault Zoe, I had to push the button on the far right of the dash if I had problems releasing the charging cable.

[@robinbennett5994]

I imagine they're making that harder, as unplugging a 350kW charger while it's live would be pretty dangerous.

[@smartmart1958]

The price of motorway charging is nearly the same as diesel

[@EverydayLife621]

Its more in an EV - but in our case its only 1-2% of our journies (in an EV car)

[@TheAegisClaw]

Most trucks won't be charging away from their depots. They'll probably have a worse deal than Intelligent Octopus' 7p, but still a discounted rate. Commercial electricity is always more expensive than domestic.

[@davetakesiton]

Of course! That's why I never charge at a motorway services and I never filled up with petrol or diesel there either.

[@Brian-om2hh]

@@TheAegisClaw Not at all. Many haulage companies already pay less for diesel than the general public do. They use a card based system - Keyfuels, UK Fuels etc - and get the reduced pricing because they take way more diesel than any/most other users. Some trucks can take anything up to 600+ litres in one go. Many companies will also eventually have agreements with some of their regular customers to charge at their premises. Unloading can often take up to an hour or more, and given the availability of (say) a 250 or 350 kw charger, that could add a useful amount of range. I suspect that haulage companies will, in time, negotiate their own pricing with energy suppliers, using a similar system to that already in place for diesel. It's only a matter of time.

[@Brian-om2hh]

@@davetakesiton Not many people do, unless absolutely necessary. The motorway service's argument that their pricing is the result of their location is utter cobblers. Fuel tankers almost always have to pass motorway service stations to get to most other petrol stations in towns and cities!

[@1mw2mam]

Nice video - good to know; as a caravan towing ev I’m always keen to know where I can charge without unhitching- need to still get across to the amenities. Would like to be able to find these towing friendly locations more easily through the various map apps.

[@NckBrktt]

Just been watching Electric Trucker channel. Huge EV trucks. Scania, Iveco, Volvo. See how Germany does it. Eat your heart out Tesla.

[@Jimages_uk]

I don't know if that is the channel I have seen with Red trucks, but he often has to drop his trailer and use car charging points if it is that one

[@DanTheCox]

lmao.

[@peteraviss9352]

Thanks Dave, really interesting. I hope these kind of charging set-ups will become more prevalent, as I tow a caravan. It is a bore having to unhitch each time for charging. I've towed about 1500 miles so for this year, all in UK. I do hope that service operators will provide decent signage for these new facilities; the signs just for caravan parking are pretty woeful in a lot of service stations!

[@davetakesiton]

It's happening, have patience

[@Jimages_uk]

I think with trucks, the first uptake will be companies with shorter range deliveries and fleets, for example Tesco or Sainsbury's where they can have depot charging. General transport will need a different solution, when in just in time deliveries, you can't afford to take time out to recharge, so chargers would need to be where you are taking an uninterrupted break, something like this would require a movement during the break period, or the charger being blocked. It will be even worse at the end of a shift when a truck has to park for an extended break, because of time restraints, the charging would have to be a part of the days working time, or the break, if while on a break, then they will be on the charger for 9-11 hours, they can't do any work, including plugging in or unplugging, the charger, and they can't move once the break has started. In the long term, there will need to be sufficient chargers that they can be a part of the actual parking area if this is to work for some forms of truck driving. Of course, for the longer parking times, a slower charger could be used, a bit like a destination charger, so as long as these can be everywhere, that would work. The final problem is more to do with facilities for trucks, Im sure you will know that thousands of them are parked in lay-by's overnight, this is because all the truck parking gets filled up quite early, this being the case, many drivers would just not be able to got on a charger overnight, meaning they would have to take extra time out of their work day to recharge, and time is most definitely money when it comes to haulage. When you have a job that loads in London, and you have a fixed delivery slot in Lisburn 2 days later, you don't have those spare hours you need to spend charging if you can't find overnight parking, as well as break time parking where chargers are available. The final problem, is because of driving hours restrictions, if a charger is 20 miles further than you can drive, you would have to stop short of your maximum driving to charge, putting you behind schedule in some cases. Even enough to cause an extra overnight stop if over longer distances. So, to sum up, there would need to be a massive increase in the amount of parking facilities for truck (no bad thing, and long over due anyway) as well as enough charge points that any truck is always going to get onto a charger at the end of their shift.

[@DanTheCox]

the range for a HGV would be much smaller than now, so charging will have to take place more than once in the day. Did you complete high school or are you a drop out?

[@Jimages_uk]

@@DanTheCox There are already trucks in Europe that do 600 km on a single charge, so an average of 80KPH over a 10 driving hour day (the very maximum possible in Europe) can be done on a single charge during the shift, enough to cover just 200 km, but most days the maximum distance would be only 640 km did you miss the maths lessons? Might I suggest you read my comment again, and actually try to understand all the words instead of trying to be smart, because you obviously are not that smart. Had you read this part without jumping to the conclusion that it must be the end of shift break, you might not have made yourself look so stupid, but you did, didn't you, an uninterrupted break can be 30 minutes, 15 minutes or 45 minutes, not all breaks are overnight. " so chargers would need to be where you are taking an uninterrupted break, something like this would require a movement during the break period, or the charger being blocked."

[@Brian-om2hh]

Shorter range deliveries? The latest M.A.N. electric articulated HGV has a 500 mile range.......

[@Jimages_uk]

@@Brian-om2hh read all of my comment, I did go on to cover that. But as I said, the early uptake will be shorter range deliveries. Even with trucks of a good range, and if it actually is 800 KM that is enough, but the website suggests 600-800. There does need to be the infrastructure not only for fast charging, but also for overnight charging. I'm sure this will happen in the long term, but the hurdles are big, payload for a MAN with the full battery packs is going to be reduced, and according to the website, Just 45 minutes is enough for a range of up to 350 kilometres, this is with the 750kw charger, and until these are widespread enough, we are back to the shorter range deliveries unless the driver has the time for long charging breaks.

[@Jimages_uk]

@@DanTheCox The MAN eTGX is electrifying long-haul transport Daily range of up to 800 kilometres: When it comes to the long haul, the new MAN eTGX gives conventional semitrailer tractors a run for their money. Whether as a semitrailer tractor or chassis variant with body, the electric truck has a charging capacity of up to 750 kW thanks to the new Megawatt Charging System.

[@Jaw0lf]

Great to see we are finally getting somewhere for EV's that are towing and HGV charging. Obviously this is something available in Europe and the UK is as usual slow in getting this going. I am sure that hauliers would find EV trucks to be far cheaper to run.

[@DanTheCox]

HGV charging is such a thing that no one of sound mind is trying it. go figure.

[@Madonsteamrailways]

Personally, I’d rather go to the Tebay Service Station. Don’t forget that its original name was Killington Lake.

[@Brian-om2hh]

Er no. Killington Lake services is completely separate from Tebay services, and is still called Killington Lake services.... I live just a few miles away...

[@Gazer75]

@0:15 I'm sorry but I had to laugh when you say it's steep. That back there looks like a fairly flat hill to me. But then I'm living in western Norway among the steep mountains and fjords :)

[@davetakesiton]

hey at my age my stairs are starting to look steep.

[@Gazer75]

@@davetakesiton You're probably in better shape than me and I'm not even 50. I hate walking :P

[@Madonsteamrailways]

Quite a few lorries are now available with an electric motor rather than an engine!!

[@Brian-om2hh]

Indeed there are. Volvo, Scania, M.A.N., Mercedes, DAF and others, have fully electric trucks on the market now....

[@EVJACK]

Im sure TESLA HGV's will be taking over the roads in no time.

[@JuicyJohnEV]

I doubt it! The established Lorrie’s are all going electric

[@GruffSillyGoat]

Tesla's Semi isn't a great design for European roads, the cab over HGEV designs from the likes of Scania and MAN are better suited for European roads.

[@Joeb4iley]

@@JuicyJohnEV Tesla have a big advantage, they can offer the complete package to distributors. Solar, mega packs, chargers, power management etc. The tractor unit is only a small piece of the puzzle.

[@GruffSillyGoat]

@@Joeb4iley - Tesla is entering a mature market, where the existing suppliers are can offer all these things as well but with known relationships and service delivered over many years. This isn't like the EV space was where competition was virtually none existant. p.s. you may not have heard but Tesla is dropping it's own Solar deployments to work with 3rd parties instead.

[@wallyheindl3270]

Really bad?? come to Westarn australia.. 10 times the size of England.. 6 super charger sites. 🤣🙃

[@davetakesiton]

Ah but we have an action packed country while you have loads of desert. Here the furthest from the sea is 70 miles.

[@Brian-om2hh]

You can blame your inward looking, short-sighted governments for that..... From what I understand, there are too many Aussie politicians with interests in oil....

[@MartinMorris-wz4gx]

@@Brian-om2hh Sounds like the idiotic US! We also have morons going around in different parts of the country vandalizing charging stations.

[@DanTheCox]

0:39 ignore the petrol station, if you don't understand that the UK doesn't have the capacity to power 1/3rd of its private car fleet with electricity now and for the next 2 generations (50 years) and 0% of the HGV and professional fleet since the UK electricity production has been going down over the past decade, and even if europe was trying to compensate for it, it would never happen since germany is a net importer, and so is france. The next countries count for absolutely nothing. Remember that 360kW is about a small town in an hour: to deliver this power requires 1/3rd of an average nuclear power generator. There are some exagerations in this comment, and many truths, let's see if the OP is able to take this comment on.

[@robinbennett5994]

100 years ago there was no grid at all. 50 years to add a bit of capacity shouldn't be a problem. Switching to EVs is relatively easy compared to decarbonising all generation and heating. We don't really an alternative though.

[@_Dougaldog]

You said "Remember that 360kW is about a small town in an hour: to deliver this power requires 1/3rd of an average nuclear power generator" Hinkley C nuclear will have an output of 3.26 GW, enough for about 9,055 360kW chargers, not three.

[@TheAegisClaw]

The nation grid says it's fine, but Dan on youtube says he knows better...

[@GruffSillyGoat]

One exageration to call out is the demand from EV's is averaged over a time period, the average car journey is 20 odd miles a day, meaning on average an EV would be charged twice a month. The estimations based on actual UK mileage is that the increased peak load would be in the order of 2 GW for all 36 million cars in the UK were EVs, and 6 GW if all vehicles (including commercial vechicles) were EVs. The National Grid uses 20 to 35GW (with peaks of 44GW during Winter) but is sized for 80GW (the peak demand size from 2005/6) - UK energy production has been going down for 20 years because demand has significantly reduced. The grid can handle the EV load, the activity required to enable chargers is to simplify and speed up grid connections of charging sites, grid batteries and renewable generation sites. You may have seen the adverts for the National Grid upgrades underway that address pre-existing issue in the grid of areas that were previously unqeually served, address grid congestion point and improve the number of North/South and East/West transmissions (resolving than the central outward configuration of the old network) providing greater reslience. It also allows for the connection to the coast to enable offshore wind to provide higher levels of power into the grid. This is a much focussed, costed, funded and achievable programme of some 20 odd projects to be completed before 2030. Another exageration by the way is the 360kW per hour figure, which is not the power demand of a small town. Take Rochford in Essex for example, which is one of the lowest consuming towns, has population ~8,500 and an annual requirement of 234GWh, which equates to about 26.7MW per hour. In terms of renewabe generating capacity, the Hornsea offshore wind farm success needs to be borne in mind rather than nuclear - the offshore farm is phased, started construction in 2018 was generating within 1 year, and the first phase completed within 18 months providing 1.2GW, the next phase added another 1.2GW in a similar time frame and the last two phases are due to complete before 2029 bringing the total generation to just under 9GW - total cost £15b. Compare that to Hinkley C, started construction in 2017 on the first of two units (1.6GW each), which isn't due to go operational till sometime between 2029 and 2031 - total cost (so far) £48b (unti 2 is yet to be confirmed). So for a 1/3 of the cost, and nearly 6 times the capacity, generating nearly immediately after construction starts. The Hornsea site is capable of support 333 Rochfords, some 2.8 million people or 1.2 million homes. Indeed on it's own the wind farm is more than sufficient to power the peak charging need of all vehicles, plus 100 odd Rochfords on top.

[@davetakesiton]

Not quite accurate, the capacity matches demand and that has fallen by 20% in the last decade with better efficiencies and lower usage. But fossil powered generation has crashed to its lowest level ever while renewable generation skyrockets. Dogger Bank wind farm alone will add enough capacity in the next 2 years to power 6 million homes and more is planned. Still no blackouts so the system works.

[@ComeJesusChrist]

Electric truck battery capacity ranges between 420-720kWh. Charging these takes as much out of the grid as hundreds of homes. The next time you’ll have a power cut or your usage is limited, expect the excuse to be EV-related.