We Disagree! - 3 Lawyers Debate Destiny and Each Other

Three lawyers debate Destiny and each other on ethics and morality in complete good faith, engaging in extreme hypothetical analogies to test the limits of their positions...
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[@destiny]

One of Destiny's favorite debates in a long time. No pivoting, no bad faith or debate tactics. They bite the bullet on some extreme hypothetical analogies to test the limits of their positions. Enjoy.

[@tylermann8769]

ok i will!

[@johnleoks7642]

Vaush could never

[@the-renegade]

PHOENIX WRIGHT: You're lying, damnit! I can prove it!

[@joeludemann]

Listening to your debates with vaush has given me another take on why leftists, hippies etc turn away from socialism as they get older. Apart from the obvious facts that socialism offers simple solutions for example defund the police to end police brutality or tax the rich to eliminate wealth inequality. As we get older and get real world experience we realise that most societal problems are complicated with no simple solutions. Your discussions with vaush have pointed out another dilemma, as we get older we start to make more money even if we have political neutral careers. Where can you put your money? Leave it in a bank and they could lend it out to unethical businesses. Put it in the stockmarket or 41k and extract profits from workers?

[@Remijoh]

I do enjoy good debates

[@user-ii9dv6tv6h]

This was actually a really cool and calm debate. Unsubbed.

[@MuscleboundKage]

Based as fuck, gave you the 69th up vote, thank me later.

[@jojokester1256]

OMEGALUL

[@daveisme9227]

Imagine being understanding and willing to change your position on anything, smh..

[@mypartyisprivate8693]

Showed him who's boss.

[@redorange7912]

Same

[@inxiti]

Destiny finally got the open, charitable, and honest conversation that he always wanted, and it's with fucking lawyers.

[@Fakery]

our preconceived notions have been incorrect this whole time

[@K1ngsd1]

pretty ironic huh

[@nemomeimpunelacessit8121]

Lawyers are OG intellectuals. Some of the most influential thinkers were lawyers

[@K1ngsd1]

@@nemomeimpunelacessit8121 can you give us a few of examples, curious

[@nemomeimpunelacessit8121]

@@K1ngsd1 Cicero, Marx, Lenin, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Robespierre, etc. A lot of important statesmen and theoreticians in history and even currently are lawyers

[@OliveOath]

this is the level of pure nerdy debate I crave.

[@jilsk3153]

I disagree sir

[@savageshot3723]

@@jilsk3153 How dare you.

[@Mindhaxors]

Same

[@TheNietzschian]

imagine not talking to people who can actually hold a conversation regularly

[@ohirum7954]

The court rules destiny is a girls name.

[@CourageToGroww]

AMAZIN

[@beejcarson]

Has there been a evidentiary hearing to establish if Destiny luvs black people?

[@ohirum7954]

@@faust8218 hey I don’t make the rules buddy...

[@richtofen4888]

@@faust8218 Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

[@brandonislemons]

Jessie Lee Peterson should have been the moderator for this one. He would have been a based judge.

[@PSNChazwazzer]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaow Amazin'

[@scarletcrusade77]

BAYYYDAA MALE!

[@CapnDGAF]

ITZ A MESS

[@loyalty155]

If we're being honest JLP should moderate every debate ever

[@brandonislemons]

The Honorable Judge Peterson has ruled that all parties are BEEYTAAA MALES

[@tobias7001]

Breaking news: grass-related deaths skyrockets

[@jonathaaaanh]

I love debates that have hypotheticals that can end with someone saying, "Yea, than its basically a hamburger Gun"

[@aj00]

Good faith arguments??? That’s not what I’m here for 😡 I want blood!

[@faidheanta2611]

Good faith arguments? That's a girl's debate!

[@dranelemakol]

The funny thing is, you're not kidding.

[@Wesker3996]

I must say my brain is still in recovery mode after taking so many high level important ideas....

[@Adam-tu1lk]

Lmao good one

[@Wesker3996]

@Alli Brown doing my best chief

[@hugmonger]

Bastiat Talking About Taxes: Alright, but Im going to complain the whole time.

[@charrydabombbomb]

True

[@user-uq4gr5nl5o]

Kicking and screaming, please.

[@WarrenRhea]

Good point!

[@illestvillain1971]

@@WarrenRhea Hey Bastiat. You killed it here. I disagree with the premise that-between two options-the better option is the "good" option. I think they were conflating the colloquial term for 'good' with the moral implications of the word 'good'. It felt like semantics on their part, as the saying something is "good" doesn't necessarily mean it is morally good. The two are entirely exclusive to seperate meanings.

[@matt_9112]

@@illestvillain1971 late, but yeah, imo maybe "beneficial" would be a better term for the colloquial use. Then again you'd need to define for whom/how beneficial would apply, just internally or world-wide (e.g. the Yemen example).

[@raz1572]

Now I understand why Bastiat says he's a liberal and not a socdem.

[@Bolizen]

He's too inconsistent to be a socdem

[@shanedsouza189]

@@Bolizen it's not necessarily inconsistent, it seems like he believes in certain systems and rights that serve his personal happiness the best.

[@falseprophet1024]

@@shanedsouza189 No. He believes in rights, but is willing to accept infringements on those rights if the consequences are bad enough.. The other guy is willing to invalidate any right so long as it increases what makes him happy...

[@BobardeZanzibar]

I really hope this is the direction Destiny's content goes. This is way more interesting than the debates they do.

[@haruhirogrimgar6047]

I really like the canvassing and political action stuff tbh. Thought experiments start to feel pretty worn out at this point (or I am just exhausted from that worthless yelling match Destiny and Vaush had.)

[@connorp3030]

I hope there's more content like this then there is currently, but i love the blood sports and political action stuff too

[@hugmonger]

I love when Bastiat get riled up cuz he gets all poetic and shit.

[@FranciscoC626]

It’s the lawyer poking through 😂

[@kingghidra1032]

Bastiat is the one bridge I would never forgive Destiny for burning. And maybe Dpak

[@asterism5768]

Bastiat is literally Phoenix Wright

[@busbee247]

@@kingghidra1032 as long as destiny doesnt start simping for China he's probably safe

[@salted2096]

@@busbee247 China do be kinda hot though 😳

[@jordanpetersonsbdsmboardin5623]

Your Honor... Destiny is a mainly feminine name meaning "destiny, fate", from the Latin word "destinare," meaning "to determine." It has been a popular name in the United States, where it is ranked in the top 50 names given to baby *GIRLS*

[@deanteegarden]

Editor, the title should be 4 lawyers. Destiny's LSAT performance is all the proof we need

[@ostdog9385]

What score?

[@shredgod6394]

@@ostdog9385 I am also curious

[@hendog5396]

I don’t think it was good, but the man literally studied 0 minutes with no schooling

[@shredgod6394]

@@hendog5396 What did he get?

[@tylertone2776]

May as well since they included a law student as a lawyer

[@Lacagz]

Oh man 4 intelligent men debating is amazing, no screaming no backtracking no bullshit >

[@scotch7731]

Normally it would be fairly boring but it's a nice change imo ngl

[@eben7248]

The only person missing *is* No Bullshit, the last true bastion of truth

[@menelikm9779]

Destiny? That's a lawyer's name!

[@deanteegarden]

Not with that lsat score

[@jadenallen4010]

🎶u were raised by your daaddy and mommaa, that makes u half wooman and half maaaan🎵

[@hugmonger]

"If my hamburger shoots someone every time I eat it am I responsible for that death?" Ah yes.... this entirely reasonable hypothetical I will now engage with. *Also dont hate me I just like this hypothetically a lot*

[@DaveChappeleIsGod]

This conversation was based as fuck, steel teeth ftw. Crush the bullets.

[@justthecraft]

This was such a fun debate. I felt like I was forced to answer to some moral foundations myself and participate in the debate. Loved it.

[@penurious_pepper1957]

Editor carrying Destiny with those thumbnails

[@avikaavasarala6041]

ye every single thumbnail is a work of art in itself

[@TJ271992]

I clicked cause Phoenix Wright.

[@user-uq4gr5nl5o]

OBJECTION!

[@gguy3600]

Same

[@zombieraddish]

"Taxation is literally theft but is also necessary and we need more of it" is not an argument I've ever heard before, and thinking about it I'm I'm kinda surprised I don't hear it! I think it's basically wrong for the some of the reasons these guys get into (the vagueness of what constitutes property etc) but I admire following through on the premises

[@nielss5945]

It's a secondary theft to offset the primary theft, because the essence of capitalism is monetary exploitation. The fact that we have to use taxation as a sort of bandaid to prevent society from degenerating into pure dog eat dog cancer where one cancer cell could theoretically own the entire earth, is proof that capitalism is based on faulty premises from the start. Being a socialist capitalist like the modern left is is simply admitting you don't like capitalism, but you're too much of a coward for real changes

[@royvanvu9715]

Was it really your money in the first place when you literally owed that money to having a society with a currency?

[@Adam-tu1lk]

@@royvanvu9715 Or a society which built the infrastructure and the publicly funded research which enables you to earn money in the first place?

[@salad5768]

@@nielss5945 Taxation isnt some bandaid to capitalism, its present in almost any government structure, sometimes more than how it is now. Unless you're some anarchist, im not sure what you mean.

[@Jankyito]

@@nielss5945 what a great straw man. Your argument only works against anarcho capitalism. You do realize that it's ok for a an economic system to rely on a government right? Litteraly every economic system does this that isn't a denomination of anarchy, I fail to see how this is a good faith criticism.

[@alejandroalaniz8064]

Awesome!! I was just about to scour the Twitch VODs for this!! Thank you!!

[@asimplewizard]

I was so excited. Only caught the second half of this live

[@langeweile42]

Game he is playing in the background is Dyson Sphere Program, available on steam

[@chaddudemanbro4884]

this is the best conversation ive heard in a while

[@TheGungoBlue]

This is probably the only long format debate I've liked on this channel. Bastiat n lawyer bro are debating how I'd imagine two old greek scholars without close mindedness

[@aagh8714]

greek scholars would pluck a chicken and throw it into the other ones classroom

[@veryfitting]

You should check out the perspective philosophy, rem, Marty and destiny conversation. It gets meta-physical.

[@Dalpidar]

They sure are saying a lot of words

[@Maelthorn1337]

I don't know if this comment has some kind of implication attached to it but I laughed regardless.

[@gianniryansmith614]

Lawyer? That’s a girl’s profession

[@awisepolarbear.3211]

Bruh?

[@wrongwaywalters]

I just watched the vod last night. It was an excellent discussion that gave me a lot to think about. I wish I had people in my life that I could have discussions like this with.

[@Dreadnaught1985]

To shift the focus from physical theft of the USB drive, you could replace it with the idea that he uses her laptop to email himself the PDF. Or he memorises it and is going to reproduce it from memory, because then physically nothing is being removed. It's the concept of her work that is being stolen.

[@redordeadlfc]

Logic lords liked this.

[@ravynpoe7858]

Amazing debate, really hurt my brain just keeping up

[@RealAmnz]

Now this is a pleasant convo to hear. More of this, it was a lot of fun to listen to.

[@zombieraddish]

Hey, I remember Pisco from the "pack the court" debate! Probably one of the most reasonable voices I've heard via Destiny, although this panel is great all around.

[@AniKhang]

Oh boy, I’m looking forward to this

[@casualnerdjason6678]

GREAT discussion. More of this style, please.

[@joel-yd1rv]

They should become the “Good Faith Podcast”

[@bgiv2010]

"Fuck that shit." Gotta admit... I did not see that coming. I think I have to give you a Like for that...it's one of my principles.

[@lucasgoncalvesdefaria7121]

Cant thank you enough editor, ya the real MVP

[@bookterror]

"hamburger gun" but for real, this was a very interesting conversation. I almost learned something.

[@m.czandogg9576]

1:04:36

[@mood1676]

Best stream I’ve seen so far

[@marques4404]

This was a crazy debate and honestly super fun to listen too.

[@MrWowihatemylife]

awesome upload

[@carljonsson2647]

Amazing discussion holy shit the analogy about if eating a hamburger caused an assassin to kill 1 million people and if that would be moral or not had me grinning like an idiot hahaha

[@Ivan-qf4mt]

That should be one tasty fucking burger.

[@carljonsson2647]

@@Ivan-qf4mt I would start worshipping those burgers. Especially in the case of rocks randomly crushing a million people each time you eat one. Those are some scary scary burgers.

[@harveyhammond9912]

Absolutely loved this debate. One of the first that I've watched which had me genuinely question the foundation of my moral structure.

[@mavejak5021]

Nobody will ever buddy rationally and calmly talk hypothetically and this was so refreshing

[@skepticmoderate5790]

You should try re-reading your comments before you post them.

[@asimplewizard]

This is the Bestiny content. We need more of these

[@speedgoblin9985]

Love these

[@wcoffin-s6770]

damn this video showed up in my feeeeed

[@travisjones4689]

Intellectual property in physical forms, or at least in a purchasable form, can obviously be as vulnerable to stealing as any other physical property. It's not he idea so much as it is the use of the idea and what people gain out of it - ability to profit, stealing credit of having the idea, which could both result in a similar situation that stealing something would.

[@dustinjoiner9977]

These are the types of conversations that I desire when listening to debates. I truly want to hear smart people present their arguments in a charitable way that I feel like has actually increased my understanding of the topic. I really love that Destiny is surrounding himself with people like Pisco so we can listen to better convos. Pisco has definetly lawyerpilled me.

[@absolutelybrutal4131]

For these debate style videos where the listening is sufficient it would be cool if Destiny uploaded them to Spotify

[@SwagdragonDice]

This was very enjoyable to watch. :]

[@NavyNukerz1337]

One very important study to bring up for all this is the UK study of pirated media. From what I've been able to find it is the largest study done on pirated media, it had the conclusion that pirated music and movies had a negative effect on sales while video games had a neutral effect on sales (leaning more towards positive than negative but from what I read it was still within the standard deviation so it's not clear-cut). Not saying sales are the deciding factor but they are important to this discussion and it's always good to have factual data (where it matters) to back your stances.

[@BanditoRios]

Good stuff

[@bentwisk1898]

"taxation is theft" guy is a gunner.

[@matt_9112]

Not too far of "death penalty is murder". Just a matter of if "unlawful" is part of your definition, which you shouldn't pick and chose (and I think Bastiat wouldn't).

[@Crispman_777]

These are my favourite kind of debates

[@grantlauzon5237]

What if there were time stamps in the description?

[@jakster8548]

Now this is epic

[@jiimmyyy]

Great conversation.

[@arson86]

I don't agree with the point that profiting from intellectual property is rivalrous, as that could apply to any monopoly. In fact, the ideas and skills that we view as the most commonplace and non-rival (playing a musical instrument, using language, breathing air) could then also be argued to be the most rivalrous, since anyone holding a "monopoly" to use those skills would hold incredible economic power. It would be more interesting to discuss the rivalness of property right systems themselves, and how different systems (e.g. common vs private ownership of ideas, land, etc) could benefit people differently.

[@extremelyonline]

amazing thumbnail

[@DibaDiber]

I’m scared of eating a hamburger now

[@trickster45fg31]

please Destiny have more of these debates theyre actually having a conversation not just tryna gotcha and being right

[@iluvideos]

You should do more legal related debates

[@GregGreggyGregGreg]

What game is Destiny playing? (in case he changes games at some point I haven't heard yet, I mean in the beginning.)

[@zacke6]

Dyson Sphere Programme

[@Mike23443]

Bastiat is an assassin Pisco95 is a templar

[@blinkanddie3397]

Holy shit I could listen to this all day. Absolutely love it

[@Actimus123]

The thumbnail, im laughing

[@pathnet]

Returned to this today. Just a really great conversation, one of several that had me optimistic about the future of Twitch political conversations. What the fuck happened.

[@arseniykorchevskiy1564]

Wait, appolez and taybor are the same person? im confused why taybor’s twitter is in the description

[@destiny]

it's an inside joke because they sound similar. Taybor is an NFL player and Appolez is a corporate lawyer or something.

[@idkman2633]

My debate tactics brings all the lawyers to the yard...

[@robot_mann3078]

I love that they genuinely want help each other understand the others positions. This is how I feel the founding fathers actually discussed the bill of rights.

[@WanderTheNomad]

Humanity's total knowledge may have increased, but I feel like the average person has gotten dumber.

[@brandonwickstead9159]

@@WanderTheNomadthe average IQ has definitley been increasing, we are smarter but perhaps not wiser

[@WanderTheNomad]

@@brandonwickstead9159 agreed

[@bennymountain1]

Lol, imagine if it really sounded like a killstream.

[@skepticmoderate5790]

@@WanderTheNomad Clearly not.

[@skippyfa29]

Was this even a debate? People got to speak there positions and the other side got to speak opposition with no interruptions. That's a conversation!

[@josephgibson2548]

Anyone know what game this is?

[@bgiv2010]

I would love for someone to justify the concept of ownership. We really haven't defined property, at all. It bothers me when people hide behind the presumption that "it goes without saying".

[@bgiv2010]

"What's the difference between taxation and petty theft?" I assume it's A) the fact that I can at least vote for my favorite thief and B) no matter who wins, a politician is still bound by laws, regulations, and oversight. I don't know if I can have A and the closest I can get to B is maybe the police or lethal force but that leads to the vet conversation we're having.

[@Toxodos]

isn't this moral agency "buffer" thing kinda outdated? I mean that's why they came up with the RICO stuff right?

[@reasonablyargued9003]

This is my favorite debate.

[@Mike23443]

Is this what debate heaven looks like?

[@devalapar7878]

Am I banned or so? I haven't received any answers to my posts for days! Can someone write an answer, please.

[@niles1492]

Gawd Dam, this was a nice one!!!

[@mulatso7959]

Sometimes Law lasts long enough to transform a nation's morality. That's a thing that was not acknoledged in this conversation. Morals can be forced in a couple of generations just by the rule of law.

[@Adam-tu1lk]

But does law reflect cultural moral norms or does it work the other way around? Gay marriage had become increasingly acceptable in the public eye so it was determined to be legal. Similar case for interracial marriage if you go back further. It’s hard to say whether it starts with the chicken or the egg. Maybe it starts with academia informing political action? It can get complicated.

[@edvz8896]

Timestamp 1:32:00

[@sydsilver4076]

This is amazing

[@cookiemonsta3350]

Finally a worth discussion, I have hangover from the Rob debate you had, that was so aufull, he is aufull...

[@Adam-tu1lk]

It’s spelled awful just so you don’t make the mistake going forward

[@cookiemonsta3350]

@@Adam-tu1lk Thanks bro! I haven't been the same since Rob BS made my gray matter leak out of my ears, or hears or, tears or who Am I?

[@FusionArmorX]

[Video] Added to Court Feeeeeeeed.

[@justice1911]

This is such a good debate holy shit it’s refreshing

[@cycloneofsouls]

i kind of wish we'd get a link to an unlisted version with the swearing still in, the quick silencing is so jarring :'(. stupid youtube

[@580Hector]

34:51 51:20 1:12:00

[@dbzmaniac1234]

I need so much more content like this. I loved this so much. Nice to see no one completely go off the rails in bad faith. Destiny take another shroom trip and have another deep philosophical discussion like this. I neeeeeed it right in my feeeeeeed

[@okonx003]

The issac parable was so good!

[@adishodzic1664]

What is this game named he's playing?

[@litensnubbe9516]

In sweden alot of insurance companies cover documents with value. the value is only set if f.eks. your a famous author or work for a company since you can't prove otherwise it was valueable

[@falseprophet1024]

1:57:00 Here is the fundamental difference between bastiat and the other guy. Bastiat: i want what i want, and to get it, im willing to do bad things, so long as it results in the outcomes i want.. Other guy: i want what i want, and anything i do to get it is good, so long as it gets me what i want.. I think they are both wrong. But bastiat is far closer to the correct answer. Which is. I want what i want, and will try to convince you, but i will not infringe on your rights to get it, even if that means i dont get it at all..

[@tonyperkismd]

This was genuinely great