We gotta go FAST! - Formlabs Form 4

[@Kevster270]

Formlabs can F right off with their predatory business practises. Charging a $2,000.00 license fee just to use 3rd party resins is obscenely petty, and buying up Micronics in order to cancel their entire product just for the sake of protecting their own price-gouging stake in the SLS printer market makes me sick

[@danhyde7501]

I missed this news some how! I was following micronics since early on and was super excited to see where they were heading. Reviews looked generally positive. A lot of articles are framing it as positive though strangely, seeing as they discontinued the product and continue to sell their fuse 1 at double the price.

[@ProfessorRotary]

I used to really enjoy LTT reviews because they felt relevant and thought out. These days it's like a shiney product hits they like and proceed to review it and how great it is while ignoring things like obscene prices along with gouging the market and sleezy business practices that go along with it. It's sad how out of touch things are becoming

[@AstolfoGayming]

The fact that this doesn't get mentioned at all is rather concerning

[@stokeseta7107]

Idk, imo micronics had a working prototype, but from what I have seen in reviews I kinda doubt the endproduct from the kickstarter would be as finished as some people think it would be. So getting the help from Formlabs is probably not as bad, sucks for hobbyists, but Im kinda excited for their version with Formlabs support. (Not only for the development of their product, but also the support for the enduser) Then again Formlabs is mostly oriented for business users and in that market they are pretty price competitive.

[@lomelyo]

This is not a consumer product. It's meant for businesses, and it competes with 10,000 dollar products. So this practices are not as bad as you say.

[@adama1294]

Formlabs went from a great startup to greedy corp. The SLA printers used to be open materials and now owners are held captive to whatever prices they set. Plus their buyout of their SLS powder bed printer competitor is just them destroying any competition.

[@digitalmike330]

That's how capitalism works.

[@FrozenDozer]

@@digitalmike330 And? Doesn't mean it doesn't suck.

[@cidercreekranch]

@@digitalmike330 That is how capital, Das Capital?, destroys companies. I worked at Boeing for more than 20 years and experienced what capitalism is all about. The death of more than 300 persons.

[@HarmonicDuality]

@@digitalmike330 User: *sees comments about price gouging and greed, lazily posts "CaPitALiSm"*

[@breakinglegsandbreakinghea3167]

​@@digitalmike330it's anti consumer and predatory business practices need to be stopped

[@technicavivunt]

While it does seem like a nice printer. Proprietary cartridges are an absolute dealbreaker.

[@DmitrySholokhov]

yup, I was sure we were past that HP-shenanigans with ink cartridges, nope, here they are again

[@ehdbom]

@@DmitrySholokhoveven worse, they aren’t selling these at anywhere close to a loss.

[@slojanko]

I thought the 4.5k price was a dealbreaker

[@technicavivunt]

@@slojanko That price isn’t all the crazy for commercial purposes if you’re needing prototyping, but having the rely off of one source of consumables is never a good idea.

[@uwepelz]

It depends on the use case - in my academic job before, we have been using 3 Formlabs Form 3 Printers and never regretted the investment. The ease of use with the swap out cartridges and the no thought use of a bunch of different resins (we usually had 6-10 different ones available) with correct parameters mad it so that I would not even have thought about 3rd party resins! 130 - 350 € per litre of resin seems a lot, but the ecosystem you get is 100 % worth it for a production or prototyping environment. NEVER for home use of course!

[@gordon_ramsay2060]

Formlabs is the hp of 3D Printers

[@rasmuspedersen2001]

No HP is the HP of 3d printers, you can multiply Formlabs prices by 10 and get a basic hp printer.

[@cidercreekranch]

@@rasmuspedersen2001 HP was expensive but not as bad as Sun! Yes, I'm that old!

[@technewb8241]

He conveniently left out the fact that in order to use 3rd party resins, you have to pay another 2,500 fuckmothering dollars!!! So yes, it starts at $4,500, but with their wash and cure stations, and the permission slip you have to BUY to use it how you want, it's $11,000.

[@metanulski]

You forgot that they also sell you an expensive service for the printer, and if you don't buy it you are on your own if something goes wrong

[@j91313]

@@technewb8241 LTT is getting out of touch

[@user-Cata7sti7ma7]

business product for business. these is a reason why HP printer and desktop pc are everywhere. you pay for a service, reliable as possible. not for the product.

[@garrygank163]

I have a dental specific resin printer and it's faster than this, cheaper than $11,000, and it lets u create custom resin profiles. Fascinating to me that the consumer side is so far behind even at a higher price point.

[@InfernosReaper]

@@user-Cata7sti7ma7 I used to work for the company that HP outsources service to. The service your paying for is just as terrible as Dell's and a bit worse that Lexmark's

[@gaveintothedarkness]

*FORMLABS: We buy out the competition*

[@kevinroosa1315]

Don't worry, Stratasys will buy them.

[@zeveroarerules]

Like all of them?

[@user-Cata7sti7ma7]

Like every smart business do. Apple, Google, Amazon, Microsoft. Sony ect.. You dont make a billion value company with real ethic. Ethic is use for marketing, not for business practice. Capitalism is the Jungle rule, the only limit is gouvernemental regulation that you must do everything possible to dodge it. even *tax optimization*.

[@KosmicWolf]

@@user-Cata7sti7ma7you forgot Adobe a company that can do anything they want and they always get away with it

[@aditya.khapre]

0:37 2d or 3d, proprietary printer ink will never leave you.

[@FrozenDozer]

Good thing it hasn't infested FDM printing yet. At least not for home use.

[@leoronus9466]

I think the standpoint from which Tynan looked at this printer got lost a bit; like a lot of fellow 3D printing enthusiasts, I am not exactly fond of Formlabs. From what I can tell though, Tynan didn't try to represent the average enthusiast here. He is a professional engineer (I believe, might be the wrong term), who uses 3D printers like these in a professional context. Professionals can often compromise on things like proprietary technologies if it offers enough other benefits, like faster printing by more than a factor of two. This can be the difference between, say, 1 prototype and 3 prototypes a day. Also remember that ShortCircuit is explicitly *NOT* a review channel.

[@dirtysnakesnu]

I used to work with clear resin daily (3d printed night guards for a dental lab) - sandpaper is a painful way to get rid of the support attachment points - if you're working with this stuff on the regular, I'd highly recommend a high rpm rotary tool, dust extractor, and proper polishing burs, followed by a go on a high speed lathe with a wet polishing wheels combined with some sort of abrasive polishing powder. Follow up it with a dry polish on the lathe with a dry wheel hit with a polishing brick. Things end up completely transparent - so long as your print allows you to get into it with the lathe's wheels.

[@cidercreekranch]

I could print my Own night guard?

[@garrygank163]

@@cidercreekranchshit u can print ur own crowns with the right resin and printer. Just need to know how to design them.

[@ThefalleStrat]

​@@cidercreekranch yeah but you need to know how to Design them and also the Resin ist stupid expensive(425€ for a Liter) compared to consumer resins.

[@OneIdeaTooMany]

I watched a full breakdown of the form 4 on the stuff made here 2 KZbin channel and you do get a really good understanding of why the damn thing costs so much. The engineering that goes into it is insane. It's probably not geared towards most of us though. Probably aimed more towards businesses than home users and there's definitely companies that will pay for this. Fast, reliable etc..

[@j91313]

Glad you showed us all the ins and outs of that "essential for proper work flow" 2k cleaning station

[@jcalerre]

Well this was specifically an impressions video of the Form 4, Formlabs newest printer. The Form Wash and Form Cure aren't new products.

[@fuurinkazan164]

I need more Tynan 3D printing videos please

[@burnte]

I got an Anycubic resin printer and got a deal with the wash and cure kit for cheap, and let me tell you it’s 100% worth it at full price. It’s SO NICE to have the full kit.

[@drachenlord8082]

We love gigachad linus ❤❤❤

[@MrTyton]

These past few reviews for new printers have been like of lackluster, mostly just have been "here is the new printer, it prints, here's the price". It's a stark contrast to the older ones on this channel.

[@MrTyton]

@@user-Cata7sti7ma7 Either way, if you replace the word review with unboxing, my point stands. Go compare this to the X1C unboxing that they did, this one and the recent prusa one are basically devoid of content.

[@MrTyton]

@@user-Cata7sti7ma7 also, not only did you use the wrong form of "they're", but you also spelled "their" wrong.

[@robertlinke2666]

well, part of it is alkso the amount of manhours they can afford on a video that wont do as well as some other topics. you have to remember that the core audience for most of LTT is gaming/IT, not production. only a subset of the people care, so the video's don't get as many views, which means less money, which means less budget for production

[@Rhizix]

@@user-Cata7sti7ma7 What a massive cope

[@r.v.electronics]

I like the way Tynan presents and hosts!

[@CanuckCreator]

HEY I KNOW THAT GUY!

[@ironman12328]

Fast is not 7000$ bucks worth it,... The Building Volume is also not great, also for a 10th of the Price you get a Bigger Volume and Similar specs, maybe not the Fastest but at least not a kidney worth it.

[@user-Cata7sti7ma7]

At scale for a big factory business, yes, time is money. the faster you can create, the more contract for product you can make and the more money you make. Thier are enterprise level product. that move a kidney of money each min.

[@ikamal101]

Great unboxing! Would love to see a full review. Thanks for being transparent about their prices. Tynan is awesome.

[@donkaos501]

0:14 i love he’s face wenn he was done putting the packaging away :))

[@Eckx1084]

THANK YOU LMG FOR REVIEWING THIS PRINTER. I HOPE ONE DAY I CAN TAKE OUT A SECOND MORTGAGE AND BUY ONE THAT I CAN PRINT TOYS WITH.

[@-B.H.]

That clarity with out print lines is quite something!

[@dragorocky2]

Did the video image look a little strange to anyone else at first glance?

[@jakebanks888]

He looks like an AI Linus

[@GladeDuck]

We love Tynan!

[@riba2233]

Yeah let's promote a company that took away the dream of accessible SLS printers...

[@MrRadialdrift]

Well, they promote a company that make garbage chairs too. Money talks.

[@riba2233]

@@MrRadialdrift :(

[@user-Cata7sti7ma7]

Micronic could as say no to the million dollars deal. Micronic staff are retired on thier luxury boat drinking a bloodmarry right now.

[@dm2060]

Why did the competition sell out?

[@riba2233]

@@dm2060 you are a smart dude, I am sure you will figure it out.

[@Ancient_West]

Out of everyone on the crew, Tynan looks the most like he could be an actual actor. Dude can nail a role of the quirky best friend of the lead actress that she falls in love with at the end of the movie.

[@codywilliams5029]

Formlabs Form 4 - Did the Swedish Chef name this printer?!

[@riba2233]

😂

[@bahamutbbob]

We still need that clear screwdriver that Linus teased in a bunch of videos a year or two ago. Thanks for reminding me!

[@平和-v1z]

Should've called out Formlabs's anti consumer BS, very well presented tho. More ShortCircuit videos with Tynan please!

[@jpjokela1]

Firstly, mentioning print times without mentioning layer height is pretty useless. Height matters too, but that we can somewhat guess. I wonder how that compares with Elegoo Saturn 4 Ultra...

[@tynanstack8251]

Thanks for the feedback will keep that in mind for the future! For reference the form 4 layer height was 100um form3L was also 100um with the Clear V4

[@AstroSheep-143A]

Ah, the return of Chad Linus

[@PaddyMcMe]

Huh, I didn't know Linus hired a Handsome Manly Linus to do these videos.

[@Ehaeka]

It's Lingus Silvastian

[@EcoAcid]

After watching the video: "Really cool printer. Wildly expensive for the common folk but damn sweet." After reading the comments: "Worst piece of shit on the market. Fuck Formlabs."

[@StratoJunon]

Great job Tynan!

[@Jake-fk5zw]

Any recommendations for high end SLA models useful in a research/prototyping lab? I have a current Bambu labs X1C that is fantastically built, compact, and able to print fine features/ threads for positioning optics. However, the non transparent materials, porous extrusion, and creep are limiting to some designs. I'd love to have something as hands off and self monitoring as the Bambu printer, but in the SLA arena. Part size doesn't have to be large, I value precision over build area. Thank you!!!

[@yourguysheppy]

I'm a simple man, I see Tynan hosting a Shortcircuit, I click the video. Should have mentioned Formlabs being a garbage tier company though

[@DivinePonies]

The backup Linus is pretty good presenter!

[@knightsljx]

why is LTT featuring a printer that locks customers in to 1st party resins?

[@ChronoXShadow]

Shoulda done a demo on multiple identical parts at one time.

[@kaseyboles30]

$4500 for the printer and the resin is 3-6 times normal prices for a litter. I could almost see the price for the printer for it's speed, even if it's resolution is fairly mid. Size is on the larger end, but again nothing special. This has to be a hard pass when you add up the ongoing costs of their resins and apparently the extortion to use anything else.

[@FedeHippo]

I would love a SLA printer, if it werent for the mess, and the handling, cleaning and curing :-( My 2 Bambu X1's print great. But the detail of SLA is just so much greater

[@vishalkalicharan7710]

Gotta go fast!

[@TheBobes]

Formlabs is like the opposite of Prusa Research in terms of buyer friendly, lmao.

[@A1chem1stGaming]

Ahh yes the Apple of the 3d printer market.

[@SimonBauer7]

or hp of the 3d printer market, these are just as bad.

[@user-Cata7sti7ma7]

Enterprise product with enterprise pricing and control. We paid more at job for Industrial washing machine.

[@A1chem1stGaming]

@user-Cata7sti7ma7 did you also have to buy the water, soap and bleach from the same company though? I seriously doubt that you did. The problem with this is it requires proprietary fluid to use it that you can only buy from them. No one is complaining about the price of the printer itself.

[@user-Cata7sti7ma7]

@@A1chem1stGaming we actually do supply all ur product from the same supplier company. its a easier, single monthly payments. always on time for supply delivery. A Serious business never try to save a buck by multiplying his supply chain. its a higher risk that something will not arrive or quality control problem occur. Its the same think with paper printer, we use HP one cause the enterprise service and reliability is god send. A min of downtime is several thousand of $$$ cost. By having control over thier product and supply chain . formlabs get a chance to have actual business be interested in their product. These is not open source, tinkering bs when you are working in a PRO environment that move million.

[@A1chem1stGaming]

@@user-Cata7sti7ma7 is said supplier also the manufacturer of the product?

[@MasterJack2]

Alpha Linus

[@TutoProPlay1]

2:49 "Can I just touch it, I se you are wearing gloves" My brothers in Christ, you shouldn't even have a resin printer in a enclosed environment like that and without a certified Air Respirator. One whiff like that won't do much harm, but oh boy if you keep doing it and start tasting resin on your meals because of that imprudence...

[@antwake]

so there was a sponsor inside your sponsored video?

[@robertlinke2666]

this wasnt sponsored by formlabs. they just showed off the product with their own points. if it was, they would have said it was secretlabs was the only sponsor

[@johnjohnson7070]

How about measuring the printed things to show how accurate it gets?

[@TheYoutubeUser69]

One of the worst ads lmg posted this week

[@bigman5125]

That is one big screwdriver, I want one!

[@VinceW187]

Not very clear how much was sponsored or if you paid for the product

[@Owenzzz777]

That printing speed is insane. Definitely too expensive just for a hobbyist, but great for a company making fast high quality prototypes

[@Vortex001_MLG]

Hello Abraham Lincoln

[@lucasasl9]

Oh boy... This title bring me back memories feom the Sonic reference made in an older video =')

[@Nespax1]

How is Chad Linus looking both more, and less, unhinged than usual?

[@qfurgie]

It's getting harder to tell if these are genuine reviews or biased garbage in order to get free things for creator warehouse

[@user-Cata7sti7ma7]

Their are not review, their are Unboxing first impression. Like Unbox Therapy do. and that ALWAY been like that and the principal reason of the separation from LTT channel.

[@OneIdeaTooMany]

I doubt LMG needs freebies to survive

[@DRC0910]

After seeing the price for this they can fuck right off, 5200€ plus additional 99€ per 1l of resin?

[@Chocosplosion]

Anyone know the song at 2:28 I kinda dig it :p

[@jyveturkey1894]

I'd like to have seen the wash and cure station.

[@tau93]

fast printer, fast video!

[@slugdangler]

What did you make?

[@muffty1337]

Did they just print a Fleshlight? O_o

[@ApoloDeLeo]

i think yes

[@RyanMercer]

Resin scares me, then again so does some of the filament I print...

[@jtparm2]

As someone who works with FL printers, let me say there are some valid criticisms of FL. The proprietary material license is BS, and the buyout of Micronics also rubbed me the wrong way. However, most people need to understand that formlabs printers are not for consumers. They are the lowest end professional resin printer, and all of the expenses of the equipment and resin gets cancelled out when you are paying someone $50 an hr to do maintenance and calibration on an $800 Elegoo resin printer. High end resin printers are 5-10X the price of a FL machine of the same build volume. We have 6 formlabs printers and they just work. 99% or more of prints go off without an issue. Not to mention, anyone can use them with a few days of training. You don't need to hire a new employee that knows how to run a resin printer when your old one quits. As a hobbyist, I would never even consider formlabs for a personal use resin printer. Because they are not made for me and you.

[@user-Cata7sti7ma7]

Yep, These is a reason why HP is everywhere even at the White House, Cause their control over their product make it easy for the working consumer and reliable.

[@RogueShadowTCN]

Polish? Time? Flame polishing?

[@yveslauwereyns6677]

DAMN! 6500$, that’s a crazy amount of money. I don’t know what professional printers cost but this is far from hobbyist pricing xD. And to think I thought bambulabs were up there…

[@WrackPharmd]

Okay so here are some constructive criticisms of this video: A) What did you print? You said selector and a handle…but for what? B) It would’ve been nice to see the curing and washing procedures or even the stations for a little bit. C) From what I’ve gathered from these comments this company seems to be kinda sketchy. Maybe address that? Otherwise, I love the content and Tynan does a great job. Keep whoever that weirdo with the orange-bleached hair away from the camera. 😂

[@JanPeterDeVries]

Its supersized LTT screwdriver parts.

[@treborrrrr]

C) It's more that the comment section is full of hobbyists that these products aren't aimed at, at all. People are upset at the proprietary cartridges while the professional crowd thinks it's great because it means they never have to think about print parameter and such. The company I work for has been selling Formlabs printers for ten years at this point. In that time I can probably count on one hand how many customers actually want to use third party resins, and when they do it's because they're doing "weird" R&D stuff in the medical field for example. As for price. I've actually had customers say "nah, that's too cheap, this thing can't be any good". So the frame of reference for the different customer groups is wildly different.

[@WrackPharmd]

@@JanPeterDeVries Ahhhhh I see. Thanks!

[@jg8263]

Why are they printing a fleshlight holder?

[@bigman5125]

Something new for the LTT store?

[@Chrish1981]

They look like a frosty mug

[@username9774]

Formlabs killed micronics, we are all still salty

[@user-Cata7sti7ma7]

nuance, Micronic took the million money and moved away.

[@teebles]

Starting from $4499 USD? DAMN that's expensive

[@plutonasa]

For something that fast aimed at companies? I'm a bit surprised it's not at least an extra $1.5k

[@Daniel-zy1ir]

@@plutonasa Including all necessary extras, you look at 8k+

[@plutonasa]

@@Daniel-zy1ir I know

[@jakebanks888]

Why did the thumb nail like it was a video about AI. You remarkably look like an AI generated version on Linus

[@Dowent]

Why is fast the main selling point of so many 3D printers? Even in professional settings, outside a print farms, I have yet to see printer with over 25% utilization. I mean, it's nice when it takes 3h instead of 8h, but either way, I'll go away to do something else and return at some point later...

[@Phuqr]

The footprint that has for such a measly build plate was disappointing

[@DBGT00]

linus if he hit puberty

[@aleks138]

this feels less of an unboxing and more of a shill video

[@patrickmitchell2469]

Can you try the Cyber Truck Mini PC?

[@gameeverything816]

What did you even print? Did I miss that part?

[@tynanstack8251]

Scaled up versions of our stubby screwdriver. I made the incorrect assumption that everyone knew what it was thank you for the feedback :-)

[@gameeverything816]

@@tynanstack8251 Thanks! Makes sense now lol

[@Desenrad]

Soon the 3D printing community is going to destroy many companies. Imagine just spending the material cost and nothing else on a product. I’ll give these printers another 3-5 years to cook. And hopefully we can easily make stuff out of metal at an affordable price. I can’t wait.

[@MarcGraveyard]

that would be a dream world

[@jb76489]

Metal is tricky due to oxidation concerns(plus the powerful lasers they use). Current metal sintering printers use inert atmospheres of argon and the equipment needed to maintain that combined with the laser power needed to do the sintering makes for a pretty high price floor. Unless something radically different is developed, metal printing will never be as cheap or ubiquitous as plastic or resin

[@Desenrad]

@@jb76489 Are there metal like materials that possible could be used in liquid form to print objects easier?

[@SEMIA123]

Metal printing isn't getting consumer friendly any time soon but I can see the costs dropping to the point where it can compete against traditional manufacturing. I also see traditional 3D printers becoming something of a household appliance as the costs keep dropping, because the ability to just make little things like hooks or decorations that you otherwise need to pay for will eventually become irresistible to your average consumer.

[@MasterJack2]

Some government official will probably be paid off to pretend they are dangerous and should be banned. Oh wait isn't it already happening?

[@RenatoG1848]

Better looking, tall Linus knows his stuff

[@SaiakuNaSenshu]

Why does it look like he's holding one of them clear fleshlights

[@VespasianoNevio]

how can this be so fast ? is the fail rate high?

[@User24x]

You need a good ventilation & a gas respirator for resin...

[@the.pickle4407]

gave me an idea do a clear ltt screwdriver (can add acents of colour)

[@cwbh10]

The comment section not getting how the sla industry / us engineering firms work 😅

[@faezezzy]

Wait, this aint linus

[@Rmm1722]

Good 😮🎉

[@forthe_mark]

Bunch of people in the comments don't understand higher end machines....

[@jacobblotkamp2945]

Linus doppelganger???

[@zieverinkpatrick]

Nice to see Tynan. To the point and calm.

[@DaveMcIroy]

What the hell did he print?

[@tynanstack8251]

Parts of our stubby screwdriver I should have mentioning it explicitly my bad 😅

[@انا_ابراهيم_البناوي]

Formlabs and other American 3D printer makers are just a bunch of greedy predatory scumbags they try their hardest to make it hard and complicated to use their printers I have a friend who got gifted a Cube Pro Duo 3D printer which he can't use because it's an American printer and requires their own cartridges from the company which doesn't exist anymore and he gave it to me and I will try to replace the mainboards and controllers to something that can use Klipper or marlin

[@BeCreativePictures]

Where is Hot Linus from?

[@thesigma8508]

Linus Lite

[@AnimeRoot]

Greedy and over priced. Formlabs can pound sand for all the crap they have pulled. Packages starting at $4,499 With resins starting at $99/L Proprietary cartridges For that resin, huge no thanks

[@sturdybutter]

Damn. The finish on those surfaces are INSANE. Wish I could afford one lol.

[@LexxDesign3D]

Elegoo Mars 4 stars at $300 and can do 0.01mm layers. Formlabs are INCREDIBLY overpriced and anti-consumer.

[@SimonBauer7]

my dad has an halot one, and even on that its crazy thin.

[@unitedpro_]

I thought this dude was linus

[@aminamirkhani6377]

Proprietary resin cartridge is a huge red flag I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot glove.

[@general_GAS]

You can't really trust LTT when they leave out the most negative parts of a product overview - the fact that you need to pay several thousand more to use 3rd party resins.

[@user-Cata7sti7ma7]

A Enterprise interested in this product will never buy 3rd party resins. The same way that HP Enterprise consumer will never care about buying anything else that official cartridges. And HP is everywhere even at the white house for a reason, Cause their have a eyes, Quality control over everything. that business 101. You dont become a sucessfull company by being nice with the one that you dont make money from ( the proletarian that want to save a buck on 3rd party satuff )