We gotta go FAST! - Formlabs Form 4

[@Kevster270]

Formlabs can F right off with their predatory business practises. Charging a $2,000.00 license fee just to use 3rd party resins is obscenely petty, and buying up Micronics in order to cancel their entire product just for the sake of protecting their own price-gouging stake in the SLS printer market makes me sick

[@danhyde7501]

I missed this news some how! I was following micronics since early on and was super excited to see where they were heading. Reviews looked generally positive. A lot of articles are framing it as positive though strangely, seeing as they discontinued the product and continue to sell their fuse 1 at double the price.

[@ProfessorRotary]

I used to really enjoy LTT reviews because they felt relevant and thought out. These days it's like a shiney product hits they like and proceed to review it and how great it is while ignoring things like obscene prices along with gouging the market and sleezy business practices that go along with it. It's sad how out of touch things are becoming

[@AstolfoGayming]

The fact that this doesn't get mentioned at all is rather concerning

[@stokeseta7107]

Idk, imo micronics had a working prototype, but from what I have seen in reviews I kinda doubt the endproduct from the kickstarter would be as finished as some people think it would be. So getting the help from Formlabs is probably not as bad, sucks for hobbyists, but Im kinda excited for their version with Formlabs support. (Not only for the development of their product, but also the support for the enduser) Then again Formlabs is mostly oriented for business users and in that market they are pretty price competitive.

[@lomelyo]

This is not a consumer product. It's meant for businesses, and it competes with 10,000 dollar products. So this practices are not as bad as you say.

[@adama1294]

Formlabs went from a great startup to greedy corp. The SLA printers used to be open materials and now owners are held captive to whatever prices they set. Plus their buyout of their SLS powder bed printer competitor is just them destroying any competition.

[@digitalmike330]

That's how capitalism works.

[@FrozenDozer]

@@digitalmike330 And? Doesn't mean it doesn't suck.

[@cidercreekranch]

@@digitalmike330 That is how capital, Das Capital?, destroys companies. I worked at Boeing for more than 20 years and experienced what capitalism is all about. The death of more than 300 persons.

[@HarmonicDuality]

@@digitalmike330 User: *sees comments about price gouging and greed, lazily posts "CaPitALiSm"*

[@breakinglegsandbreakinghea3167]

​@@digitalmike330it's anti consumer and predatory business practices need to be stopped

[@gordon_ramsay2060]

Formlabs is the hp of 3D Printers

[@rasmuspedersen2001]

No HP is the HP of 3d printers, you can multiply Formlabs prices by 10 and get a basic hp printer.

[@cidercreekranch]

@@rasmuspedersen2001 HP was expensive but not as bad as Sun! Yes, I'm that old!

[@technicavivunt]

While it does seem like a nice printer. Proprietary cartridges are an absolute dealbreaker.

[@DmitrySholokhov]

yup, I was sure we were past that HP-shenanigans with ink cartridges, nope, here they are again

[@ehdbom]

@@DmitrySholokhoveven worse, they aren’t selling these at anywhere close to a loss.

[@slojanko]

I thought the 4.5k price was a dealbreaker

[@technicavivunt]

@@slojanko That price isn’t all the crazy for commercial purposes if you’re needing prototyping, but having the rely off of one source of consumables is never a good idea.

[@uwepelz]

It depends on the use case - in my academic job before, we have been using 3 Formlabs Form 3 Printers and never regretted the investment. The ease of use with the swap out cartridges and the no thought use of a bunch of different resins (we usually had 6-10 different ones available) with correct parameters mad it so that I would not even have thought about 3rd party resins! 130 - 350 € per litre of resin seems a lot, but the ecosystem you get is 100 % worth it for a production or prototyping environment. NEVER for home use of course!

[@technewb8241]

He conveniently left out the fact that in order to use 3rd party resins, you have to pay another 2,500 fuckmothering dollars!!! So yes, it starts at $4,500, but with their wash and cure stations, and the permission slip you have to BUY to use it how you want, it's $11,000.

[@metanulski]

You forgot that they also sell you an expensive service for the printer, and if you don't buy it you are on your own if something goes wrong

[@j91313]

@@technewb8241 LTT is getting out of touch

[@user-Cata7sti7ma7]

business product for business. these is a reason why HP printer and desktop pc are everywhere. you pay for a service, reliable as possible. not for the product.

[@garrygank163]

I have a dental specific resin printer and it's faster than this, cheaper than $11,000, and it lets u create custom resin profiles. Fascinating to me that the consumer side is so far behind even at a higher price point.

[@InfernosReaper]

@@user-Cata7sti7ma7 I used to work for the company that HP outsources service to. The service your paying for is just as terrible as Dell's and a bit worse that Lexmark's

[@gaveintothedarkness]

*FORMLABS: We buy out the competition*

[@kevinroosa1315]

Don't worry, Stratasys will buy them.

[@zeveroarerules]

Like all of them?

[@user-Cata7sti7ma7]

Like every smart business do. Apple, Google, Amazon, Microsoft. Sony ect.. You dont make a billion value company with real ethic. Ethic is use for marketing, not for business practice. Capitalism is the Jungle rule, the only limit is gouvernemental regulation that you must do everything possible to dodge it. even *tax optimization*.

[@KosmicWolf]

@@user-Cata7sti7ma7you forgot Adobe a company that can do anything they want and they always get away with it

[@aditya.khapre]

0:37 2d or 3d, proprietary printer ink will never leave you.

[@FrozenDozer]

Good thing it hasn't infested FDM printing yet. At least not for home use.

[@leoronus9466]

I think the standpoint from which Tynan looked at this printer got lost a bit; like a lot of fellow 3D printing enthusiasts, I am not exactly fond of Formlabs. From what I can tell though, Tynan didn't try to represent the average enthusiast here. He is a professional engineer (I believe, might be the wrong term), who uses 3D printers like these in a professional context. Professionals can often compromise on things like proprietary technologies if it offers enough other benefits, like faster printing by more than a factor of two. This can be the difference between, say, 1 prototype and 3 prototypes a day. Also remember that ShortCircuit is explicitly *NOT* a review channel.

[@jpjokela1]

Firstly, mentioning print times without mentioning layer height is pretty useless. Height matters too, but that we can somewhat guess. I wonder how that compares with Elegoo Saturn 4 Ultra...

[@tynanstack8251]

Thanks for the feedback will keep that in mind for the future! For reference the form 4 layer height was 100um form3L was also 100um with the Clear V4

[@dirtysnakesnu]

I used to work with clear resin daily (3d printed night guards for a dental lab) - sandpaper is a painful way to get rid of the support attachment points - if you're working with this stuff on the regular, I'd highly recommend a high rpm rotary tool, dust extractor, and proper polishing burs, followed by a go on a high speed lathe with a wet polishing wheels combined with some sort of abrasive polishing powder. Follow up it with a dry polish on the lathe with a dry wheel hit with a polishing brick. Things end up completely transparent - so long as your print allows you to get into it with the lathe's wheels.

[@cidercreekranch]

I could print my Own night guard?

[@garrygank163]

@@cidercreekranchshit u can print ur own crowns with the right resin and printer. Just need to know how to design them.

[@ThefalleStrat]

​@@cidercreekranch yeah but you need to know how to Design them and also the Resin ist stupid expensive(425€ for a Liter) compared to consumer resins.

[@drachenlord8082]

We love gigachad linus ❤❤❤

[@MrTyton]

These past few reviews for new printers have been like of lackluster, mostly just have been "here is the new printer, it prints, here's the price". It's a stark contrast to the older ones on this channel.

[@MrTyton]

@@user-Cata7sti7ma7 Either way, if you replace the word review with unboxing, my point stands. Go compare this to the X1C unboxing that they did, this one and the recent prusa one are basically devoid of content.

[@MrTyton]

@@user-Cata7sti7ma7 also, not only did you use the wrong form of "they're", but you also spelled "their" wrong.

[@robertlinke2666]

well, part of it is alkso the amount of manhours they can afford on a video that wont do as well as some other topics. you have to remember that the core audience for most of LTT is gaming/IT, not production. only a subset of the people care, so the video's don't get as many views, which means less money, which means less budget for production

[@Rhizix]

@@user-Cata7sti7ma7 What a massive cope

[@j91313]

Glad you showed us all the ins and outs of that "essential for proper work flow" 2k cleaning station

[@jcalerre]

Well this was specifically an impressions video of the Form 4, Formlabs newest printer. The Form Wash and Form Cure aren't new products.

[@ironman12328]

Fast is not 7000$ bucks worth it,... The Building Volume is also not great, also for a 10th of the Price you get a Bigger Volume and Similar specs, maybe not the Fastest but at least not a kidney worth it.

[@user-Cata7sti7ma7]

At scale for a big factory business, yes, time is money. the faster you can create, the more contract for product you can make and the more money you make. Thier are enterprise level product. that move a kidney of money each min.

[@fuurinkazan164]

I need more Tynan 3D printing videos please

[@burnte]

I got an Anycubic resin printer and got a deal with the wash and cure kit for cheap, and let me tell you it’s 100% worth it at full price. It’s SO NICE to have the full kit.

[@CanuckCreator]

HEY I KNOW THAT GUY!

[@dragorocky2]

Did the video image look a little strange to anyone else at first glance?

[@riba2233]

Yeah let's promote a company that took away the dream of accessible SLS printers...

[@MrRadialdrift]

Well, they promote a company that make garbage chairs too. Money talks.

[@riba2233]

@@MrRadialdrift :(

[@user-Cata7sti7ma7]

Micronic could as say no to the million dollars deal. Micronic staff are retired on thier luxury boat drinking a bloodmarry right now.

[@dm2060]

Why did the competition sell out?

[@riba2233]

@@dm2060 you are a smart dude, I am sure you will figure it out.

[@donkaos501]

0:14 i love he’s face wenn he was done putting the packaging away :))

[@平和-v1z]

Should've called out Formlabs's anti consumer BS, very well presented tho. More ShortCircuit videos with Tynan please!

[@yourguysheppy]

I'm a simple man, I see Tynan hosting a Shortcircuit, I click the video. Should have mentioned Formlabs being a garbage tier company though

[@kaseyboles30]

$4500 for the printer and the resin is 3-6 times normal prices for a litter. I could almost see the price for the printer for it's speed, even if it's resolution is fairly mid. Size is on the larger end, but again nothing special. This has to be a hard pass when you add up the ongoing costs of their resins and apparently the extortion to use anything else.

[@MasterJack2]

Alpha Linus

[@r.v.electronics]

I like the way Tynan presents and hosts!

[@antwake]

so there was a sponsor inside your sponsored video?

[@robertlinke2666]

this wasnt sponsored by formlabs. they just showed off the product with their own points. if it was, they would have said it was secretlabs was the only sponsor

[@AstroSheep-143A]

Ah, the return of Chad Linus

[@ikamal101]

Great unboxing! Would love to see a full review. Thanks for being transparent about their prices. Tynan is awesome.

[@Eckx1084]

THANK YOU LMG FOR REVIEWING THIS PRINTER. I HOPE ONE DAY I CAN TAKE OUT A SECOND MORTGAGE AND BUY ONE THAT I CAN PRINT TOYS WITH.

[@GladeDuck]

We love Tynan!

[@jtparm2]

As someone who works with FL printers, let me say there are some valid criticisms of FL. The proprietary material license is BS, and the buyout of Micronics also rubbed me the wrong way. However, most people need to understand that formlabs printers are not for consumers. They are the lowest end professional resin printer, and all of the expenses of the equipment and resin gets cancelled out when you are paying someone $50 an hr to do maintenance and calibration on an $800 Elegoo resin printer. High end resin printers are 5-10X the price of a FL machine of the same build volume. We have 6 formlabs printers and they just work. 99% or more of prints go off without an issue. Not to mention, anyone can use them with a few days of training. You don't need to hire a new employee that knows how to run a resin printer when your old one quits. As a hobbyist, I would never even consider formlabs for a personal use resin printer. Because they are not made for me and you.

[@user-Cata7sti7ma7]

Yep, These is a reason why HP is everywhere even at the White House, Cause their control over their product make it easy for the working consumer and reliable.

[@Ehaeka]

It's Lingus Silvastian

[@qfurgie]

It's getting harder to tell if these are genuine reviews or biased garbage in order to get free things for creator warehouse

[@user-Cata7sti7ma7]

Their are not review, their are Unboxing first impression. Like Unbox Therapy do. and that ALWAY been like that and the principal reason of the separation from LTT channel.

[@VinceW187]

Not very clear how much was sponsored or if you paid for the product

[@A1chem1stGaming]

Ahh yes the Apple of the 3d printer market.

[@SimonBauer7]

or hp of the 3d printer market, these are just as bad.

[@user-Cata7sti7ma7]

Enterprise product with enterprise pricing and control. We paid more at job for Industrial washing machine.

[@A1chem1stGaming]

@user-Cata7sti7ma7 did you also have to buy the water, soap and bleach from the same company though? I seriously doubt that you did. The problem with this is it requires proprietary fluid to use it that you can only buy from them. No one is complaining about the price of the printer itself.

[@user-Cata7sti7ma7]

@@A1chem1stGaming we actually do supply all ur product from the same supplier company. its a easier, single monthly payments. always on time for supply delivery. A Serious business never try to save a buck by multiplying his supply chain. its a higher risk that something will not arrive or quality control problem occur. Its the same think with paper printer, we use HP one cause the enterprise service and reliability is god send. A min of downtime is several thousand of $$$ cost. By having control over thier product and supply chain . formlabs get a chance to have actual business be interested in their product. These is not open source, tinkering bs when you are working in a PRO environment that move million.

[@A1chem1stGaming]

@@user-Cata7sti7ma7 is said supplier also the manufacturer of the product?

[@knightsljx]

why is LTT featuring a printer that locks customers in to 1st party resins?

[@EcoAcid]

After watching the video: "Really cool printer. Wildly expensive for the common folk but damn sweet." After reading the comments: "Worst piece of shit on the market. Fuck Formlabs."

[@FedeHippo]

I would love a SLA printer, if it werent for the mess, and the handling, cleaning and curing :-( My 2 Bambu X1's print great. But the detail of SLA is just so much greater

[@codywilliams5029]

Formlabs Form 4 - Did the Swedish Chef name this printer?!

[@riba2233]

😂

[@TheBobes]

Formlabs is like the opposite of Prusa Research in terms of buyer friendly, lmao.

[@TheYoutubeUser69]

One of the worst ads lmg posted this week

[@-B.H.]

That clarity with out print lines is quite something!

[@DRC0910]

After seeing the price for this they can fuck right off, 5200€ plus additional 99€ per 1l of resin?

[@Nespax1]

How is Chad Linus looking both more, and less, unhinged than usual?

[@bahamutbbob]

We still need that clear screwdriver that Linus teased in a bunch of videos a year or two ago. Thanks for reminding me!

[@johnjohnson7070]

How about measuring the printed things to show how accurate it gets?

[@Ancient_West]

Out of everyone on the crew, Tynan looks the most like he could be an actual actor. Dude can nail a role of the quirky best friend of the lead actress that she falls in love with at the end of the movie.

[@PaddyMcMe]

Huh, I didn't know Linus hired a Handsome Manly Linus to do these videos.

[@Vortex001_MLG]

Hello Abraham Lincoln

[@ChronoXShadow]

Shoulda done a demo on multiple identical parts at one time.

[@muffty1337]

Did they just print a Fleshlight? O_o

[@ApoloDeLeo]

i think yes

[@username9774]

Formlabs killed micronics, we are all still salty

[@user-Cata7sti7ma7]

nuance, Micronic took the million money and moved away.

[@DivinePonies]

The backup Linus is pretty good presenter!

[@jyveturkey1894]

I'd like to have seen the wash and cure station.

[@StratoJunon]

Great job Tynan!

[@teebles]

Starting from $4499 USD? DAMN that's expensive

[@plutonasa]

For something that fast aimed at companies? I'm a bit surprised it's not at least an extra $1.5k

[@Daniel-zy1ir]

@@plutonasa Including all necessary extras, you look at 8k+

[@plutonasa]

@@Daniel-zy1ir I know

[@Phuqr]

The footprint that has for such a measly build plate was disappointing

[@gameeverything816]

What did you even print? Did I miss that part?

[@tynanstack8251]

Scaled up versions of our stubby screwdriver. I made the incorrect assumption that everyone knew what it was thank you for the feedback :-)

[@gameeverything816]

@@tynanstack8251 Thanks! Makes sense now lol

[@Dowent]

Why is fast the main selling point of so many 3D printers? Even in professional settings, outside a print farms, I have yet to see printer with over 25% utilization. I mean, it's nice when it takes 3h instead of 8h, but either way, I'll go away to do something else and return at some point later...

[@Owenzzz777]

That printing speed is insane. Definitely too expensive just for a hobbyist, but great for a company making fast high quality prototypes

[@jg8263]

Why are they printing a fleshlight holder?

[@bigman5125]

Something new for the LTT store?

[@lucasasl9]

Oh boy... This title bring me back memories feom the Sonic reference made in an older video =')

[@TutoProPlay1]

2:49 "Can I just touch it, I se you are wearing gloves" My brothers in Christ, you shouldn't even have a resin printer in a enclosed environment like that and without a certified Air Respirator. One whiff like that won't do much harm, but oh boy if you keep doing it and start tasting resin on your meals because of that imprudence...

[@yveslauwereyns6677]

DAMN! 6500$, that’s a crazy amount of money. I don’t know what professional printers cost but this is far from hobbyist pricing xD. And to think I thought bambulabs were up there…

[@WrackPharmd]

Okay so here are some constructive criticisms of this video: A) What did you print? You said selector and a handle…but for what? B) It would’ve been nice to see the curing and washing procedures or even the stations for a little bit. C) From what I’ve gathered from these comments this company seems to be kinda sketchy. Maybe address that? Otherwise, I love the content and Tynan does a great job. Keep whoever that weirdo with the orange-bleached hair away from the camera. 😂

[@JanPeterDeVries]

Its supersized LTT screwdriver parts.

[@treborrrrr]

C) It's more that the comment section is full of hobbyists that these products aren't aimed at, at all. People are upset at the proprietary cartridges while the professional crowd thinks it's great because it means they never have to think about print parameter and such. The company I work for has been selling Formlabs printers for ten years at this point. In that time I can probably count on one hand how many customers actually want to use third party resins, and when they do it's because they're doing "weird" R&D stuff in the medical field for example. As for price. I've actually had customers say "nah, that's too cheap, this thing can't be any good". So the frame of reference for the different customer groups is wildly different.

[@WrackPharmd]

@@JanPeterDeVries Ahhhhh I see. Thanks!

[@Desenrad]

Soon the 3D printing community is going to destroy many companies. Imagine just spending the material cost and nothing else on a product. I’ll give these printers another 3-5 years to cook. And hopefully we can easily make stuff out of metal at an affordable price. I can’t wait.

[@MarcGraveyard]

that would be a dream world

[@jb76489]

Metal is tricky due to oxidation concerns(plus the powerful lasers they use). Current metal sintering printers use inert atmospheres of argon and the equipment needed to maintain that combined with the laser power needed to do the sintering makes for a pretty high price floor. Unless something radically different is developed, metal printing will never be as cheap or ubiquitous as plastic or resin

[@Desenrad]

@@jb76489 Are there metal like materials that possible could be used in liquid form to print objects easier?

[@SEMIA123]

Metal printing isn't getting consumer friendly any time soon but I can see the costs dropping to the point where it can compete against traditional manufacturing. I also see traditional 3D printers becoming something of a household appliance as the costs keep dropping, because the ability to just make little things like hooks or decorations that you otherwise need to pay for will eventually become irresistible to your average consumer.

[@MasterJack2]

Some government official will probably be paid off to pretend they are dangerous and should be banned. Oh wait isn't it already happening?

[@tau93]

fast printer, fast video!

[@the.pickle4407]

gave me an idea do a clear ltt screwdriver (can add acents of colour)

[@bigman5125]

That is one big screwdriver, I want one!

[@RyanMercer]

Resin scares me, then again so does some of the filament I print...

[@Chrish1981]

They look like a frosty mug

[@SaiakuNaSenshu]

Why does it look like he's holding one of them clear fleshlights

[@Chocosplosion]

Anyone know the song at 2:28 I kinda dig it :p

[@DBGT00]

linus if he hit puberty

[@aleks138]

this feels less of an unboxing and more of a shill video

[@vishalkalicharan7710]

Gotta go fast!

[@RenatoG1848]

Better looking, tall Linus knows his stuff

[@RogueShadowTCN]

Polish? Time? Flame polishing?

[@User24x]

You need a good ventilation & a gas respirator for resin...

[@patrickmitchell2469]

Can you try the Cyber Truck Mini PC?

[@general_GAS]

You can't really trust LTT when they leave out the most negative parts of a product overview - the fact that you need to pay several thousand more to use 3rd party resins.

[@user-Cata7sti7ma7]

A Enterprise interested in this product will never buy 3rd party resins. The same way that HP Enterprise consumer will never care about buying anything else that official cartridges. And HP is everywhere even at the white house for a reason, Cause their have a eyes, Quality control over everything. that business 101. You dont become a sucessfull company by being nice with the one that you dont make money from ( the proletarian that want to save a buck on 3rd party satuff )

[@forthe_mark]

Bunch of people in the comments don't understand higher end machines....

[@aminamirkhani6377]

Proprietary resin cartridge is a huge red flag I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot glove.

[@ayanhansda]

Linus looks a bit different today 😅

[@jacobblotkamp2945]

Linus doppelganger???

[@sturdybutter]

Damn. The finish on those surfaces are INSANE. Wish I could afford one lol.

[@LexxDesign3D]

Elegoo Mars 4 stars at $300 and can do 0.01mm layers. Formlabs are INCREDIBLY overpriced and anti-consumer.

[@SimonBauer7]

my dad has an halot one, and even on that its crazy thin.

[@faezezzy]

Wait, this aint linus

[@unitedpro_]

I thought this dude was linus

[@DaveMcIroy]

What the hell did he print?

[@tynanstack8251]

Parts of our stubby screwdriver I should have mentioning it explicitly my bad 😅

[@MaxTheFireCat]

His eyes are too small for his head

[@flikflak24]

Most have found out that monster green was the best to clean the parts in after printing ( even better then 99% alcohol) When sls printer ?

[@DegustoDelSol]

WTF?!? 6600$! I can get Elegoo for 400$

[@ThefalleStrat]

This is a lowend Professional printer Not really for consumers as tynan Said

[@DegustoDelSol]

@@ThefalleStrat so what? Why the hell they show this crap instead of something people can buy? just ddumb content

[@enderinatuxito]

Linus if he was manly

[@AnimeRoot]

Greedy and over priced. Formlabs can pound sand for all the crap they have pulled. Packages starting at $4,499 With resins starting at $99/L Proprietary cartridges For that resin, huge no thanks

[@BH369]

Linus has a stunt double?

[@Light-DelaBlue]

ewwww Proprietary and formlab the oen taht buy micronics for kill the SLS project for alls.

[@thugfromeu]

Many better cheaper open printers out there.

[@qwertbochaffer]

RIP micron

[@Rmm1722]

Good 😮🎉

[@horizontal120]

start whit the price so we all know what we are talking about !! 0/10