We Kinda Like Writing Our Dads Evil, Don't We?

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[@poweroffriendship2.0]

The characters that pretty much subverted the "evil dad" archetype made me think of Dr. Doofenshmirtz and Bowser. Both of them are villains whose goal is to take over, but deep down, they can be good parents outside their villainy.

[@TheArtofKAS]

Agreed 100%. Part of me wants to add another character to this but I can't think of their name

[@TheCosmoNut]

​@@TheArtofKASJoker in The Harley Quinn show

[@TheArtofKAS]

@@TheCosmoNut I was thinking joker!!! . But I didn't know which version. Thank you 👏🏿👏🏿

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

Don’t think those characters really count as they’re more like joke characters than anything else. You’re not meant to take Doofenshimirtz and Bowser seriously as they’re comedic joke villains than anything else. Like Buggy the Clown. And even Buggy was taken more seriously than those two at first introduction.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@TheCosmoNut Joker was a dad in the harley quinn show? What?! When was this?

[@Cole205]

Nathan Explosion: "Fuckin' love my dad. My dad's fuckin' awesome."

[@ij1376]

"Brutal, son."

[@Daneki]

Skwisgar's mom has got it going on

[@zionleach3001]

Part of me wants to write a *normal family out of spite. * By normal I mean where the parents aren't dead,abusive,and or neglectful.

[@LoneWulf278]

😂

[@CandyThePuppy]

XDDDD As a writer, I feel that. Purposefully have more abusive mothers or other possible tragic familial dynamics to spice my characters' tragic backstories up a bit. It probably helps that there are quite a few abusive mothers in my familial bloodline while the dads were wither stuck and passive or just gone, so I gotta lot of stories to pull from as well as hindsight on how it affects literally everyone. That said, I also like writing healthy families too just because, well, that was my experience growing up.

[@Dr.Strangmeme]

A story about nothing. Susan Ross: What's the premise? Jerry Seinfeld: Well, as I was saying, I would write a story, and... as a normal person living in the suburbs, and I have a friend and a neighbor and an wife, which is all true. George Costanza: Yeah, but nothing happens in the story. You see, it's just like life. You know, you eat, you go shopping, you read, you eat, you read, you go shopping. Russell Dalrymple: You read? You read in the story? Jerry Seinfeld:: Well, I don't know about the reading. We didn't discuss the reading. Russell Dalrymple: All right, tell me about the bad parents. What kind of bad parents? George Costanza: Oh, no. No bad parents. Russell Dalrymple: No bad parents? So what happens, what do they do? George Costanza: What did you do today? Russell Dalrymple: I got up and came to work. George Costanza: There's a story. That's a chapter. Russell Dalrymple: How is that a story? Jerry Seinfeld: Well, maybe something happens to you on the way to work. George Costanza: No, no, no! Nothing happens! Jerry Seinfeld: [Pointedly] Well, something happens. Russell Dalrymple: Well, why am I reading it? George Costanza: Because it's there. Russell Dalrymple: Not yet. George Costanza: [Clears throat] O.K... uh... look. If you wanna just keep doing the same old thing, then maybe this idea is not for you. I, for one, am not going to compromise my artistic integrity, and I'll tell you something else. This is the story, and we're not gonna change it. [Snaps fingers at Jerry] George Costanza: Right? [Exits] Jerry Seinfeld: How about this? I beat my children...

[@zionleach3001]

@@Dr.Strangmeme I wasn't talking 'slice of life's stuff. I meant how most stories parents are either dead or abusive/neglectful. I mean at least change it up a bit. 🤷

[@Dr.Strangmeme]

@@zionleach3001 I don't know, it'd take real b#lls to actually write a story about everyday life. Mowing the yard, cooking a meal sleeping for 8 hours :-)

[@jon66097]

One underrated villain is Ramses from The Prince of Egypt. All his stubbornness and refusal to negotiate with Moses was all stemming from his desire to emulate and surpass his overbearing father. In the end, all his evil actions were all an attempt to tell himself that he met his father's expectations to create a great Egypt. Ironically, Ramses following his father's example was what caused the fall of Egypt.

[@twopieye69420]

That movie is 🐐 ed

[@twocents7509]

Love the prince of Egypt. I think it’s often an overlooked movie, but it seems to gradually be getting more attention over time.

[@jackdccole]

Don’t forget that he also had a son whom he loved and after that son was killed, he set out to commit genocide against Moses and the Hebrews. His love, protectiveness, and self-sacrificing fatherly qualities manifested as hatred for his perceived enemies and led to destruction for himself, his family, and his empire.

[@Red-jt6uu]

It is strange that we don’t have more evil mothers in fiction. We have plenty of evil stepmothers, but so many people grow up with abusive and narcissistic moms that it is strange that it seldomly translates to the stories we tell. In particular, for many women, their mom was their first bully and there are so many sites, articles, videos, etc. dedicated exclusively towards helping women who grew up with narcissistic mothers help themselves heal from the damage. Why do we even need to have this wicked stepmother trope when there are plenty examples of awful biological mothers IRL? Narcissist mothers often act like stereotypical stepmothers anyway with how often they act as if they are in competition with their own offspring.

[@danielasarmiento3101]

The only series I've seen do that are bojack horseman and Disenchantment

[@adamantiiispencespence4012]

Olivia Soprano from The Sopranos.

[@AmirDarkOne]

completely agree with you its not just daughters, sons also suffer there are plenty of radical feminist mothers hating their sons or teaching them to hate themselves encanto is only example of bad mother in recent media that i remember

[@Red-jt6uu]

Not to mention, a lot of moms hate their sons because they remind them of their ex.@@AmirDarkOne

[@clumsyninja925]

Brother there are countless thrillers where the premise is a mom with munchausen syndrome. Horror is also filled bad mom's.

[@DavekayBSC]

I get that KZbinrs need to make money like anyone else, but the Better Help sponsorships are inexcusable at this point. They are a *SCUMBAG* company. They sold off people's most sensitive, most private information after telling them it would be secure. Honestly a RAID Shadow Legends sponsorship would be WAY better. Yes, it's a garbage game, but it's not hurting the people who need help.

[@lucyandecember2843]

o.o

[@cpob2013]

Yeah I hear bad things about them. They get around confidentiality by claiming themselves as a third party unbound by it.

[@YEY0806]

Raid Shadow Legends is an Israeli game, so they both are terrible

[@smoss9813]

This. Bad sponsorship man.

[@ginge641]

Ah yes, blatant bigotry.​@@YEY0806

[@freebird264]

Sometimes I wondered if why so many writers write evil villainous dads stems from generations of so many boys viewing their fathers as their idols and wanting to meet their father's expectations of them and make them proud, thus having a villainous father you're trying to defeat is a subconscious expression of your feelings towards wanting to overcome those expectations.

[@adamantiiispencespence4012]

Or maybe alot of guys just horrible relationships with their fathers.

[@Joyride37]

It’s not hard to write villainous male authority / father figures when there are so many of them in people’s lives, unfortunately. It’s also not relegated to only male authors. I think a lot of people can just end up having a shitty parent, or knows of shitty parents or sees enough of them in media, and it makes it easy to write them when a character like that is relevant to a story.

[@colinstewart3531]

@@adamantiiispencespence4012 I don't think so, its just not that widespread.

[@coolbeans5911]

Silco: "Is there anything so undoing as a daughter?”

[@ereegodofeternity9451]

A great quote

[@shyannbennett3392]

I grew up with a really shitty step-dad. I watched so many movies and just accepted that dads were supposed to be mean. It was normal to have a dad who was mean and angry, right?

[@KyleRayner12]

I'd be curious in how incompetent fathers in fiction fit into this framework. They can range from simple to surprisingly complex, depending on narrative, and their inability to parent effectively often seems completely divorced from their presentations of masculinity, except in the metanarrative sense that, because nurturing is "feminine," their very incapability serves as a presentation of masculinity. However, the more complex versions sometimes interrogate both the sources of their incompetence - the models they were raised with, their beliefs about the parenting role - and their broader ambivalence about fatherhood - unpreparedness to have kids, their independent dreams/ambitions that often get more focus than their children, etc.

[@lightworker2956]

Well, in modern media, men are either love interests / co-leads with women, or evil (as this video points out), or idiots (as you point out).

[@Speedy2619]

Do you mean that kind of story where the real father has to compete with a "better" father figur? I dont really have a movie in mind but i remember this sort of story divorced parents and the new stepdad is a much more masculine and a better provider but a bit toxic. The kid mostly son lean towards this toxic father figur and come in the end to the conclusion that their real fathers are better.

[@CrabBaskets]

I find it interesting that Im having a hard time coming up with many examples of incompetent fathers in fiction - Homer Simpson, Jerry Smith (Rick & Morty), and I think Mrs Doubtfire kinda counts.

[@xavierthomas5835]

​@CrabBaskets There are several more, not that I can name them off the top of my head. As a subgenre, you place a mother beside the father character, and have her accomplish most of the important work, while the father character helps her or the children, often times seeming incompetent in their actions.

[@jamestolbert1856]

@@CrabBasketsRichard Watterson from Gumball, Jake the Dog from Adventure Time, and Homer Simpson

[@xel1673]

I love the use of the evil Bad/Evil Dad concept in Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood. Spoilers for FMA:B under cut. You have all the makings for another evil dad in Hohenheim from Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood. For much of the narrative you are led to believe through the perspectives of the main characters of Ed & Al, and their childhood interactions (or lack thereof) with their dad in the narrative as to what sort of person Hohenheim is. As far as Ed is concerned, Hohenheim is a disinterested, heartless, deadbeat who left one day and never came back. Not even when his wife died and his kids were left alone. As the story progresses it also makes it seem the whole time the big bag of the story IS Hohenheim. Only to reveal in the 2nd season it isn't. It's basically a doppelganger that looks exactly like their dad that is the true antagonist. It turns out Hohenheim is a tragic character who has lived a cursed life. The only reason he left was because Hohenheim has been out trying to stop his evil twin and save the country, if not the continent, from his evil doppelganger. All Hohenheim really wants to do is be with his wife and sons, who he loves dearly. But the only one who can see the dangers from the fake-father and the only one capable of saving his family and millions of innocent lives is Hohenheim. He has to leave, traveling great distances and work tirelessly to thwart the villain's plans all alone for years before time is up and everything is game over. He sacrificed his precious time with his family, the thing he wanted, to ultimately save their lives. The choice cost him his son's love and respect, as well as being with his beloved wife before she was killed by a plague. Then on the opposite end you have Father, the antagonist of the show and doppelganger of Hohenheim. He finds the human notion of family, communities, and such to be a sign of weakness and pathetic, but ends up making his own "family" from aspects from his own flesh/soul later in his existence. Hinting in the narrative as to his envy of human connections and family, but still viewing himself too perfect and above anything human to actually engage. He creates children, basically LARPing a human family, and has them refer to him as their "Father". However, he holds none of the affection or care for them as a father should. They are minions, easily replaceable and only a means to an end. Father surrounds himself with the family he doesn't care for while Hohenheim is unable to be with his. Father is the Evil-Bad Dad. To him, humanity is viewed as flawed, foolish beings. Only useful for being fuel for his plans. While Hohenheim only wishes to be human and live a simple human life. He has an amazing capacity to be a good dad, but was tragically unable to be one to his boys when they needed his help and guidance as children.

[@jonasquinn7977]

I think the perfect summation of this in the show is the family photo. We see it a few times pinned on a wall early on but every time Hoenheim’s face is covered up by another photo, which we presume is because they want to forget about him. Then when we meet Hoenheim he takes the photo with him and many episodes later when we finally see the full thing and get the story behind it it turns out that he’s WEEPING in it because of how much he loves his family and how much leaving them hurts him.

[@valhatan3907]

You capture the opposite paralel of Hohenheim and Father right

[@jakobrenner2230]

What I love about Father is that all his children are essentially “him”. Thus every time we see one of them craving something, being insecure or vulnerable it actually mirrors something Father himself felt and wanted to get rid off but never actually could. Wanting to claim the power of god was cope for the singular fact that he couldn’t be like the humans, which is what he truly and desperately desired to be from the moment he was created.

[@gg_sam7847]

And if they aren't evil then they get killed off for character motivation

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

lol that's just the way how it usually is.

[@earnestbrown6524]

Another good video on Evil Fathers doing good for their children is the Mother's Basement PSA "The Anime Dad's Guide to Child Neglect"

[@civilengineer3349]

Evil dad is a fun archetype. Marceline of Adventure Time has an evil dad. A good dad would be more of a mentor character or an overprotective dad character, the latter would have to die or disappear to let the hero grow

[@endershepard7117]

Yeah it’s always “fun” for losers to have someone else to blame for their shortcomings in life.🙄

[@lightworker2956]

Personally I'm completely tired of the evil dad archetype and all other subtle forms of man-bashing. But fair, tastes differ.

[@civilengineer3349]

@@endershepard7117 do you think abuse is not real?

[@civilengineer3349]

@lightworker2956 half of mankind are men so a whole lot of villains will be men

[@cpob2013]

The evil dad makes a great dark mirror for the hero, the Darth Vader temptation to the dark side.

[@IncandescentWriter]

Love every time Treasure Planet is mentioned. 😊 Silver's story is one I will always remember. And Kratos is defintitely one who took me by surprise, having to never played the original series, the Norse storyline and his own transformation was remarkable. I truly believe that story was needed to be told, not for Kratos himself, but for the player themselves who may have grown up to have their own children. I remember seeing posts about just that, and I think the games achieved that message. I still haven't played Ragnarok yet, but from what I hear, it expands the stories further.

[@MILOPETIT]

At every mention of Treasure Planet I feel obligated to mention that the version I grew up with, the Québec dub, is even better than the original. Just listen to Silver's GREASY laugh he's so great

[@lukaslambs5780]

My favorite of these is Invincible and Omniman. Robert Kirkman has said a lot of very interesting things about his own father (he always had a mustache lmao)

[@MrKidKnockout]

You forgot about the most important dad depiction that a lot of us relate to. The Deadbeat Dad or better known as The Anime Dad. I’m looking at you Goku, Toji Fushiguro and Shanks. On a serious note, great video as always. Growing up, fathers were often depicted as either the lovable buffoons (Homer Simpson) or righteous and strong like the first examples you gave. But thinking about it, I wonder how pop fiction treats motherhood. Why isn’t the ‘evil mom’ archetype nearly as popular as the bad dads one? I think the most famous example I can think of is Mom in Futurama or Mary Jones from the film Precious.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

The closest "evil mom" I can think of would be Beatrice Horseman from _Bojack Horseman_ or Mother Gothel from _Tangled._

[@kakyointhemilfhunter4273]

Its just an anecdote but ive seen and heard far more cases of people having bad dads and rarely heard of the same for moms or both are shitty and the dad just happens to be worse

[@mannythegrandfather2291]

Meh, not really. There's no way to really come to a conclusion concerning which situation is worse Shitty dads and shitty moms are equally terrible

[@lucyandecember2843]

I feel like i've seen an equal amount of depictions of bad mums as bad dads in meadia tbh🤔

[@lightspaceman5064]

There defiantly a psychological reason there aren’t as many evil moms but I imagine it’s something more complex and ingrained for most people including me to explain quickly in a comment. I guess it’s just harder to hate your mom. It’s not like there aren’t bad moms. There just isn’t an archetype for them. Most protagonists don’t even have a mom because they imply safety and why are we going on a “quest” if we’re already safe?

[@juandediosreyes8526]

Best anime dad: Piccolo

[@the_socialphobic_girl]

I'd also add Whitebeard and Kuma as well

[@alexber8838]

nah, best anime dad is Bondrew from Made in Abyss. Best by far 😂

[@holeeshi9959]

I think one that really strikes me as realistic is Heihachi Mishima, who is not only an evil dad (who definately loves live wife but also also in a twisted way cares for his kid and grandkids) but bred his son Kazuya into an evil dad (who I suspect has the same type of twisted care for his son) to his own son Jin, and the evil granddad, evil dad, and evil kid then starts to fight each other in the manliest of ways

[@lightspaceman5064]

“Heihachi, you got any parenting advice?” Heihachi: Find a good cliff.

[@aaronwatts7457]

I was literally just about to add a comment about tekken

[@spinjitzumasterfalcon]

I think my favorite evil dad is probably Lord Garmadon from Ninjago. However, despite him being evil, he does care for his son and family, however because of his impulses, he can’t help himself but to give into the darkness

[@maninanikittycat4238]

On god! he's one of my favorite villains in fiction

[@jamestolbert1856]

He’s an evil dad who xares

[@305Independent]

We need more evil mothers in fiction to balance this out. There is such a prevalence of devouring mother archetypes in society today but they're so underrepresented in media portrayal most people can't see the signs.

[@Savage-nv6wr]

Evil mothers are cringe asf , 💀 !

[@cpob2013]

As dark as it would have been, I really wanted Finding Dory to have her parents abandon her. That she wasn't lost they just got sick of her special needs and ditched her. Maybe too heavy for pixar but man would that have hit hard, to of course be patched up by being accepted by her friends.

[@lucyandecember2843]

​@@cpob2013would have been an intresting twist🤔

[@abigfavor]

Yall never heard about the wicked stepmother? There's already a lot of that. The Evil Matriarch isn't an empty page on tvtropes

[@305Independent]

@@abigfavor that's a completely different trope, and mothers are not stepmothers. I'm talking about the clingy, overbearing, Munchausen-by-proxy types. The only example I can think of is Nagisa's mom in Assassination Classroom, and she's given way too much forgiveness.

[@Nouvsuarez]

And then there is Eren and Grishas relationship👀

[@endershepard7117]

Grisha Yeager is a real one. Both his sons were fuck ups and it wasn’t his fault.

[@Zelmel]

As a parent with young kids and a fucked up dad of my own, this one hit hard and true. I only discovered your videos recently and I'm really impressed with them (in specific ways and in general), and I look forward to what you have to say in the future!

[@T_C_D-05-21]

I think this is due to the fact that our fathers are usually the most authoritative figures in our lives. We human beings usually don’t always agree with authority, which will lead to issues with our dads. They are the ones who will usually try to make us see the reality of our lives and future, as well as help us make decisions which we may not always agree with, but could pay off later on. Add to the fact that there are quite a few horrible dads as well, who definitely make more of a bad impression with the general public than bad Moms. Nevertheless, most Dads aren’t like that and are pretty awesome.

[@lightworker2956]

I think it's due to the feminist idea of "all male authority is evil, unless like, the man having authority is a billionaire with a six-pack who loves me."

[@kakyointhemilfhunter4273]

​@@lightworker2956Thats not feminist. Thats a handful of irrelevant rad-fems on twitter that no one takes seriously

[@razztamara3306]

It's also much harder to criticize mothers even if they fuck up because well... They gave birth to you and nurtured you when you were at your most vulnerable. So if you do criticize your mom's parenting, no matter how bad it was, you just look like an idiot because you won't exist if it weren't for them

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@lightworker2956 lol just no, it has NOTHING to do with ANY "fEMiNisT IdeA" in ANY way at all, don't even go there, SERIOUSLY, people have always had conflict with their father before feminism was even thing for social issues so don't start thinking it comes from "fEmInISt iDea" AT ALL as no one is EVER saying that "all male authority is evil" AT ALL, people are just talking about bad and evil fathers in media and even in real life which has always been a thing since the start of mankind and we're seeing it now portrayed in media. Imagine saying all of that JUST to complain about feminism, you people truly are the worst and JUST as bad as the people you're whining about here, seriously.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@lightworker2956 No one is EVER saying that "all male authority is evil" AT ALL, people are just talking about bad and evil fathers in media and even in real life which has always been a thing since the start of mankind and we're seeing it now portrayed in media. Imagine saying all of that JUST to complain about feminism, you people truly are the worst and JUST as bad as the people you're whining about here, seriously.

[@katrosemond6411]

Marceline from adventure time had all three in ice king and her bio dad was straight up evil...

[@jamieohjamie]

An interesting take on the "evil father turns good" trope is Stoick from How to Train your Dragon. He goes from the primary antagonist to one of the best dads in fiction.

[@lucyandecember2843]

Man i love stoick, especially in the series, they let hiccup and stoicks relationship grow so much and it was a joy to watch

[@NOONE-bs5zh]

but Stoick is not evil

[@bobtheball5384]

@@NOONE-bs5zh Not evil, no- but antagonistic in the first film

[@jamieohjamie]

@@NOONE-bs5zh He was the primary antagonist of the first movie.

[@jamieohjamie]

@@lucyandecember2843 YES!! The episode wherein Stoick is sick really shows off how much Hiccup is affected by Stoick's health.

[@mikek6298]

Wait, damn. The "tragic backstory" of my latest villain is his evil dad. I swear it's crazy how much the media we consume influences is without us realizing

[@liaml.e.5964]

Valkorion is also an outright evil dad.

[@twocents7509]

In addition to us loving to write evil dads, we also love to write replacement father characters. Iroh is probably the best example of that, but there’s many mentor-like characters that are men in fiction. From dumbledoor to mr. Miyagi, we love to write those characters.

[@Yikes_its_Psychs]

I mean, we write what we know, right? So maybe if a good portion of parents weren’t so abusive and neglectful in real life, this wouldn’t be reflected as often in various media.

[@rzasian]

Daddy issues. YAYUH!

[@kingofcards9516]

Literally just the writers projecting.

[@soccerandtrack10]

11:46 quote people keep saying on videos="you have to give up stuff that helped you in the past,because its herting you now." More emipthy/not forgiveness.

[@ttrpg_nthusiast8709]

Under Vader my award for best villain dad goes to Tywin Lannister. He also gets best just deserts (EDIT: desserts).

[@eyewonder8697]

thankyou for all your work bro, fantastic breakdowns, clearly stated and done with passion for the craft. A+

[@WetRatGaming]

Awesome essay as always mr. books!

[@zawarudo0280]

Thanks for the lesson. My story's theme revolves around FAMILY, every part has a different question about this topic and Thurs different dynamics are needed. I never really put my thoughts on how important this was. I guess I'll use em all. Thank you again.

[@TheMPExperience]

Fantastic video. Insightful and illuminating. Love your content.

[@savagebooks7482]

Thanks!

[@lakitubomberooo90]

Definitely have written my stories with my father's either similar to my IRL father or the reverse of him.

[@EV_Variety]

I'm really liking the patreon discord! I got a good test reader helping my writing process. Can't wait to see it grow more! Also another great video by SB!

[@cassidyauld6413]

one of my favorite dads in recent fiction is thors from vinland saga. he used to be a bad person, but he left that life behind and became a better person. he serves as an example for his son that redemption is possible

[@rewi_the_kiwi]

Fantastic video!!

[@Shonky_Business]

I had to replay the video from 3:27 a total of 3 times First to read the interesting facts on screen Second to watch Marlon Brando play with the adorable cat and lastly to actually listen to what you were talking about

[@benconforzi5696]

I wonder which category of father, Yujiro Hanma would fall under.

[@abigfavor]

Morally grey(or evil or good depending on your perspective) Firelord Gwyn from Dark Souls who is the father of three children, one of whom is speculated to be sunbro Solaire, will help you kill him as he is a burnt withered husk keeping the first flame alive.

[@TradePrinceNodnarb]

Sunbro is confirmed to not be the third born. It was the forgotten king (the only person we see use the original lightning like powers Gwyn used to slay dragons in a primordial sense. Not hymns, not scrolls, but taught by father to son)

[@abigfavor]

@@TradePrinceNodnarb except that makes the story worse, you can just ignore Dark Souls 3 trying to make Dark Souls 1 worse. Or the NAMELESS King could be Solaire instead of the giant worm in the rehashed demon ruins.

[@TradePrinceNodnarb]

@@abigfavor ignoring it doesn't change the story the developer wants to tell. It can be your head cannon, but it shouldn't be spouted as truth. He is NAMELESS because Gwyn wiped his name from the annals of history for his crime. His betrayal. He is Gwen's son, like it or not.

[@abigfavor]

@@TradePrinceNodnarb watch me XD

[@lk_3099]

I'm kinda feeling the opposite: I feel I have too many good dads. I kinda have more bad moms by comparison. Maybe it'll even out once I keep writing.

[@CandyThePuppy]

I alwys strive to write abusive mothers instead to slowly amend the sheer amount of father roasting. The stories I typically to tell with these are typically through the lense of someone who was shown no warmth growing up. The kind of tender love every child needs. And the vulnerability growing up without it can cause.

[@cathy4697]

You could just write good fathers???

[@CandyThePuppy]

@@cathy4697 well yeah I do that too. XD Just talking about the cases where I've needed to traumatize my characters a bit.

[@ryeee345]

Omg i did not expect you to look like that. You're beautiful

[@ibelieveingaming3562]

My dad had 8 children with 5 different women and groomed me specifically to be his caretaker in old age! Oh, and he's a bum.

[@boreos3499]

Dude, this shit is so good! I fuckin love this channel. Using the theatrical depiction of fathers to talk about things like societal views on masculinity. So effective.

[@savagebooks7482]

Thanks! Appreciate it.

[@mmahdish9594]

Amazing

[@zenone9698]

Xenoblade Dickson is a complex father figure.

[@samif1128]

I was thinking about Dickson throughout this video, glad someone else pointed him out!

[@thebigshep]

I have nothing to back this up, but I feel like if a fictional world takes place in our universe with limited fantastical elements, the bad parent is a mom, whereas the bad parent in a fictional universe with highly fantastical/speculative elements is gonna be the dad. Am I crazy?

[@newjumpcityjosh9333]

Yes

[@lucyandecember2843]

o.o

[@iainronald4217]

Some of the dads in fiction I really appreciate are Woody Grant from Nebraska, and Harold Meyerowitz from The Meyerowitz Stories: New and Selected. I've known these men, whether through my actual relationship with my father or as a friend's father, and the nuance in their characterization is fantastic.

[@jamestolbert1856]

Claude Frollo was a father figure and he was a evil monster; more complex than that

[@mateusrocha439]

i think logan in succession is kinda a villain father

[@Calebgoblin]

I took a shot for every 30 seconds before you showed Daddy Thanos. I knew you wouldn't get me drunk ;)

[@gabrielpelegrini6135]

wow this is the first time seeing you! You are really good looking!

[@rejoicingfakepriest201]

Ichigo's Dad: getting his face kicked daily 😂

[@338holly]

Fatherhood, the first symbol of authority.

[@MrNocturnalEmission]

Whether good or evil, dad figures are often the cooler version of the child we follow throughout the story. I just had this conversation with a friend, about the lost or forgotten father. Bardock (Dragon Ball), Minato (Naruto), James McCloud (Star Fox), it's one of my fav tropes.

[@kokofan50]

They’re not cooler versions. They’re the matured version of the character, which is why we see the character look more like their father as they mature.

[@oldman5247]

Fathers in the media. Used to be written in a more positive light. If you go back far enough. Bad fathers used to be an exception not the norm.

[@jamestolbert1856]

Father from KND only became a villain and a terrible father is because his own father never shown him any respect or love for him

[@alexber8838]

Bondrew is #1° best dad

[@osets2117]

"What am I doing? I'm trying to kill our son." Dracula

[@froggie610]

An underrated father character is Clay Puppington from Morel Orel. His a piece of shit dad that abuses his family with drunken outrage. This stems from being completely fed up and done with having a normal life, doing the same things over and over again in cycles of despair. He uses alcohol to express this outrage. What makes Clay compelling is this fact of life and mundanity, and the context of his life. He never truly wanted to have a family, in fact, he was a truthfully religious man in his heart. While he was traumatized by the death of his mother and the neglectiveness of his father, he still grew up to be a well operated man. Clay is an example that fits all the archetypes you discussed, he looks like the idealistic father figure present within the 60s and 70s, he exudes a masculine trait reaped in sadness, regret and despair, and awfulness, and he changes as a character by being more authentic about his shitty life. Even if it can be negatively and brutally true of reality.

[@moycorbin4750]

Viziepop with every character:

[@tbgold07]

I think Sully in Monsters Inc was hyper masculine at the start, he was the best scarer which is the jock type job in their world. He did soften and his job was threatened because of it. Both Mike and Waternoose had the point of view that him accepting Boo would ruin his career or the company as a whole.

[@digitaldevil696]

One of the most interesting spins on this trope I've seen is probably Kakashi's relationship with his father Sakumo from Naruto, because we see the the child's perception of father changing exclusively through the child's eyes, and the direction it takes. Kakashi went from being disgusted with his father for basically choosing Good over Lawful to finding an understanding, and appreciation and love for his father's heroic act and an intense self-loathing for how he treated it initially. Also I love how Netflix showed the Punisher and Frank Castle's duality mainly through fatherhood. It's probably the most humane version of the Punisher because we get to see Frank Castle, and it's through fatherhood that every once and a while Frank Castle shines through the Punisher's seemingly empty shell, and it's the Punisher's anger and hatred and PTSD that break Frank Castle's humanity. We see it a little bit in the first season in how he interacts with his partner-in-crime's son, but we see it a hell and a lot more in season 2, which I grew to really appreciated because it took the Punisher into the direction I didn't see other media taking him. It actually took him into a mentally better place, something I didn't think was possible for Frank, and they did it through forcing the Punisher to take on the role of an adoptive father of a sassy teen Amy with her own inner darkness. We see how Punisher's brutality, hatred and rage does nothing good for Amy's psyche even though he does indeed protect her. And Frank definitely sees the impact his choices and violent impulses have on Amy, and he realises it, and he's forced to deal with it, and he does. And how he's interacting with her is nothing but adorable, how he's allowing himself to care, and, eventually, let Amy go, but in a good way, to let her stand on her own. I think it was the most beautiful thing that I've seen writers doing with Frank and for Frank.

[@jamestolbert1856]

Norman Osborn, Curt Connors, Sandman, Batman(he’s a dad whose masculinity is challenged), and also Qui Gon Jinn

[@SoulKnightKing]

Change my mind. The greatest father in animation, Heinz Doofenshmirtz. He's pyre evil, but was a terrific and non-toxid dad who just wanted the world given to his daughter.

[@aroccoification]

My father and grandfather are both evil and I didnt even get a single super power...

[@zxzerostelar]

Oh, I thought it was a vid I missed, nice.

[@curiousworld7912]

I think my favorite 'surrogate dad' movie, has to be 'Hunt for the Wilderpeople'.

[@Mollywhop79]

Have you watched Mad Men? I'd love to hear your thoughts on the writing and story of that show. And if you love GoT, you'd be an excellent source of insight into The Sopranos. Both are deeply psychological inquiries into dynamic characters and relationships. And they both have complex personal politics among well written characters with interesting and conflicting ambitions and weaknesses. Totally up your alley. Plus ppl are still discovering those shows, so new viewers would have chance to hear your insights

[@jrxx8326]

It was very funny to realise that I had accidentally ended up writing a story about fatherhood in the form of my D&D character's personal arc. Obviously my DM was running the story, but all the backstory was written by me. The villain was my character's father, and his second in command who was a father himself once but whose son had been killed. And at the end of it all my character ended up as a father figure to a younger brother he didn't know he had. All of this kinda just happened and when I looked back at it all I was like "Hey, there's a weirdly recurrent theme of fatherhood here."

[@ironline6830]

I needed this video I'm writing a story (poorly) i had no backstory for the villain before but as made it he instantly became an evil father and grandfather I was wondering lately why I it seemed so fitting I this this might be why

[@juniorjunior5884]

The father serves the same role as the mother in most fiction. Their role is to either be forces that prop the child who is usually our protagonist, or obstacles for the child to overcome. Icons of hope or nightmares. Very few popular examples are written beyond that. Because most drama and character growth goes back to childhood, we find more moments of the parent's flaws or negative acts that stuck with the child. Negative or abusive actions from parents stick out the most and usually the one more capable of physically harming the child is the father. Even if the father never struck the child, the child understands the dad is stronger. The child is more likely to have fears of the father so it's easier to imagine and write out villainous mirrors of bad fatherhood. Basically, if the dad isn't written to be a John Kent/Uncle Ben, then he's more likely going to be made as something to scorn. For hypermasculine examples, I think of Jecth from final fantasy. Tidus has nothing but hate for his dad, who is this hyper strong and cool athlete. Every time Jecth showed up, Tidus's mom would focus on her husband instead of her son. Even though this isn't wrong, in Tidus's mind his dad was the only one his mom cared about. Instead of either parent spending the time to explain things to their son, Jetch goes on a mission to save the world only leaving a recording before he dies and his mom just gives up on everything when Jetch dies. Now you have a young man with a hatred of his father so strong he even has dreams of his dad insulting him and taking girls away from him.

[@512TheWolf512]

my dad is a fantastic man and basically a genius of an engineer. i can't fathom why there are so many writers who seem to hate their parents

[@OtepRalloma]

Some people aren't so lucky.

[@bobtheball5384]

Damn crazy, it's almost like people don't have a similar relationship with their parents, or even have a toxic and or abusive one.

[@YEY0806]

Usually, it's just that sometimes, when a writer is making a story that features a young protagonist that they want to go on adventures, the first issue that comes is the question of why the parents aren't present or allowing their young 18 year old child to go on adventures. The solution to this problem is usually to either have the protagonist be an orphan/have dead parents or abusive parents, especially if parenting isn't a theme that the author is interested in and just simply wants a young protagonist for their story.

[@Joyride37]

Not every writer is dealing with daddy or mommy issues and projecting them onto a story or making self insert protagonists. Sometimes you’re just writing a story that you think is interesting and using tropes to tell it. Sometimes those tropes involve an evil parent. And yes, other times a writer is using personal experiences to accurately represent bad actions of a character, like a parent, because the writer has direct experiences of what that accurately looks like. But it still does not necessarily mean they’re working their issues out or projecting themselves or their parent directly into the story. It’s like if I wrote a scene where a character gets sucked into a vortex and is isolated for days on a mountain top, unsure where they are or where their friends are. I’ve never experienced that. But I have experienced feelings of loneliness, or getting briefly lost while following a map, so I can take those feelings and use them as a reference for what that character might be experiencing in that moment

[@Vieyram]

Kain and Raziel from Legacy of Kain Soul Reaver.

[@mirage3663]

Banger

[@SergGirl]

Kida’s dad had a name? The more you know 💫

[@gonaye1]

I’m writing a character who keeps trying to become a father only to fail (time and time again) and is so mentally tormented by his failure that he becomes a cruel, hardened, man, convinced he will never have a future bloodline to call his own. He finally reasons that if he can’t have children, why should anyone else? Things get pretty bad for other characters in his story from that point onwards (especially other parents).

[@who__cares__]

I don't think Dracula would be considered an "evil dad"

[@DotRD12]

He literally wanted to wipe out the entire the human race

[@YEY0806]

I mean, he wants to commit genocide so that's pretty evil

[@user-dy1dz1lz9t]

I'm one writing about an evil mom and several evil sons.

[@zachkeenankacey4945]

Baller

[@LOBricksAndSecrets]

You should get therapy, but use caution and do your research before going to the company mentioned at the start of this video

[@LaLavaneko]

New viewer so im not sure if this is common but the audio difference between your speaking clips and some of the examples shown is pretty drastic. Im finding myself turning up the volume to hear you speak but then turning the tv back down during sample clips. In general though vedy good and informative video, just wanted to point that out for future editing in case others were having the same issues

[@absolutelycitron1580]

It may be my own daddy issues but im very fond of the kind and selfless father and father figure characters. Like prof. Utonium from powerpuff girls and Obi-Wan from star wars

[@cameronwebb5621]

didn't better help get caught selling user data or something

[@Zeromegas]

Dracula is the only good-ish dad in that list. He could kill Alucard in their 1st fight but he put safe in a tomb to dusturb his mission. By the looks Alucard would be the last being alive after Dracula killed everyone incluyed himself

[@writererics]

I'm curious to see where those father figures who raise their children on twisted ideals fit into this model. The scene with Breaking Bad's Hector Salamanca raising the twins comes to mind, where they present some ideal for those they raise. Still, it's not necessarily one that sends the characters along a positive character arc, or it's one the character (see Zuko and Ozai) ultimately rejects.

[@soccerandtrack10]

8:26 the 2nd gaurdians of the galaxy?...

[@latebreakfast8911]

Nah, it's mostly the mother. At least in Eastern Slavic narrative tradition, I believe.

[@Jandrix_bb]

Whats interesting with Silco, is that compared to his father foil, Vander would have sacrificed Jinx without hesitation if the victory they wanted was within reach. He would have done it for the greater good. But Silco sits at Vander's Statue and thinks about what he would have done, and decides that he want's to be nothing like Vander, and chooses Jinx. It's selfish, but it's so complex because so much of the conflict in Arcane is perpetuated by people making selfish choices like that. Be it vengance or love, the gears continue to turn because it's stuck in a vicious cycle.

[@UnburntDragon]

I never considered that, but in episode 3 Vander was willing to sacrifice himself to give the council a criminal instead of vi. But he did always teach that we must sacrifice one person to maintain the peace so chances are if he needed to he woulda sacrificed powder/Vi for the cause.

[@lucyandecember2843]

o.o

[@kittikataclysmic]

​@@UnburntDragoni don't think so. I think you kinda missed the point with Vander. Vander wouldn't have given them up for peace. He chose peace to protect them. The thing about Vander and Silco is that they are actually doing the same thing. Vander was a revolutionary who wanted nothing more than freedom for the undercity. That was his cause. He gave up his cause to protect his kids and Silco judged him for it. Then Silco gets a kid of his own, and it put in a position where he has to choose between his daughter or his cause. And like Vander did years ago, he chose his daughter. I think where you're confused is that you think peace was Vander's cause, when the peace Vander made was just a way for him to keep his kids safe. He wanted a free Zaun, he just wasn't willing to risk his kids for it.

[@redscorner4324]

As someone who grew up with a victim narcissist for a dad, I have always really liked the trope of the jaded man having to take an innocent child under their wing. Something about it just hits home, maybe the idea that the right person can help another change for the better, or the excitement an audience member gets when the protagonist switches from not caring what happens to the kid, to being willing to sacrifice everything for them.

[@jackdccole]

What category would David Xanatos fall under? Grey Dads or Evil Dads?

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

WTF at a 19:28, "The evil fathers who care, are as grey as they come." lol JUST no, that's an oxymoron entirely. You can't be evil and be grey at the same time unless if it's necessary evil but in those evil father scenarios doing their evil deeds, it's almost NEVER that at all. Evil fathers who care are STILL evil and they can still try to redeem themselves but them simply caring about their own children doesn't make them any less evil.

[@alexber8838]

Its a way of taaaaaalking. Relax, words are more than their explicit meaning.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@alexber8838 That "way of talking" is still wrong. I know words can be more then their explicit meaning but NOT in this case.

[@jayreese8522]

@@Gadget-Walkmen You are fighting ghosts right now.

[@alexber8838]

@@Gadget-Walkmen I guess you mean that you can only describe people as grey? I mean, following your logic, evil or good only exist in perfection, as the moment an evil does one good thing, is not evil anymore.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@alexber8838 No, as I said, it depends on the evil like “necessary evil” for understandable reasons, they can be grey. But evil in general, just no.

[@mortimerwake2974]

What about Yujiro Hanma from Baki the Grappler?

[@10hawell]

In my story the father of main character is a ancient folk hero turned into demon that killed pagan gods and was trapped on top of the mountain. He is relatively a good guy and helps his granddaughter escape abuse, main character is the most evil character in the story. Villain is the main character because he saves the world while good guy who don't see bigger picture nearly doom it. Exact antithesis of Attack on Titan.

[@JesseBakerH]

havent finished the video yet but if Father from Full Metal Alchemist doesnt get a mention i'll be sad