We might not get another good MMO

[@hahadumball]

Brighter shores looks promising

[@J1mmy]

i left this part out of the video because i think I was a bit too harsh, but I truly believe it doesn't look promising at all. I could be wrong because of how little we've seen, but I really don't think it's going to be any sort of game changer in the MMO space. It looks incredibly outdated and if it's anything like Runescape, I don't think Runescapers are looking for another Runescape.

[@AlmalekeLoL]

@@J1mmy It looks like it'll be a cozy game for middle aged RS boomers to muck around in but I agree that it will definitely not shake up the MMO scene in any significant way.

[@makeyoudance69]

@@J1mmy every runescaper I know is looking forward to this game!

[@Barrywilkins152]

@@J1mmy I agree. I'll still check it out because cmon, Runescape man made it but I doubt it'll be all that big of a hit outside of the runescape player space.

[@brrian]

it honestly looks pretty terrible the fact its not even open world just ruins it for me like why make everything instanced

[@basicguy99]

It's interesting that all of us late 20's-early 30's, early MMO players are going through this right now. The scene has changed somewhat and we're showing our age. There aren't many young people today mourning the loss of the MMO-craze that encapsulated the early 2000s.

[@ATXnomad698]

Catering to the older crowd is something I think FF14 did really well - if you wanna grind for fancy weapons or hard raids you can, but it's also totally possible to play the MSQ solo for an hour or two after work a couple days a week and have a satisfying, complete experience. That aside, I honestly think we'll see a huge MMO resurgence when those of us who grew up with RS and WoW get to retirement age and have a fuckton of free time again. It won't shock me at all if 30 years from now some MMO targeted at gamer grandpas comes out and is a huge success.

[@SkittleBombs]

This is why dnd is popping off. Because people want to socialise while they play combat and exploration.

[@TheUnsubScribe]

Dang bro this hit home 🤣

[@Kona_AJ]

Damn dude why you gotta go and call me out like this. (great take tho)

[@Digi-Navi]

@@ATXnomad698OldSchool RuneScape 2

[@ToyokaX]

Let's not forget that the social landscape was not the same 15-20 years ago as it is now. MMOs back then *were* the social space that we chose to stay in, communicate with friends in, etc. It wasn't just a game, it was a meeting place. Ever since the advent of social media (from MySpace, to Facebook, to KZbin, and other online social hubs), the popularity of MMOs as a central social hub has declined. The design of modern MMOs reflects this, for the most part. Most MMOs are more about *you* doing what *you* want on *your* own, sometimes with friends, rathe than it bein the other way around. Discord and other such hubs are the so-called replacement for MMOs these days.

[@tonetraveler992]

This absolutely nails it in my opinion. In hindsight my best times in WoW where when it was, quite frankly, a glorified IRC client. Now that social spaces have moved beyond this, most players have moved to games that are just "the good bit", i.e. PvPers to MOBAs, PvEers to Monster Hunter etc. The harsh reality is that an MMO wouldn't really work in today's market, and the existing ones work because they're an established home to many. I know people hate the comparison to gatcha games but even Genshin has filled the void that MMOs left for a great number of people (i.e. those who prioritise exploration, for example).

[@CottidaeSEA]

@@tonetraveler992 A game I feel could've worked maybe not as a MMORPG, but at least a big multiplayer game is Cube World. The problem is that the creator of that game had no clue what the players actually wanted. He made the game he wanted, which was fun for 20 hours and then everyone quit. Meanwhile, the alpha version of the game was something people spent hundreds of hours in despite the lacking content.

[@noel4140]

Osrs was my favourite early form of social media. This comment is on the dot

[@SirMalorak]

Yep. MMOs used to literally be social media. Then social media became incredibly dominant and now it's barely used for socializing lol. Even if MMOs still WERE social media, with how the internet evolved, many would just avoid it.

[@karenwang313]

@@tonetraveler992 Meanwhile I started playing FF14 because Genshins progression was so meaningless it was driving me insane lol.

[@vlim5601]

OSRS doesn't have quests to kill 20 goblins, we have 1/5,000 droprates instead!

[@TheDestroyer229]

Champion's Challenge scrolls! Woot!

[@mekudesu]

actually we have both

[@Its_PieRat]

We do, its called slayer 😂

[@iabaca]

And for some reason I fucking love it.

[@NerevarineKing]

Slayer has all the kill 20 monster quests

[@donnyyasu2764]

8:39 Final Fantasy's first MMO is Final Fantasy XI and it still profiting on a subscription base model over 20 years later.

[@mahito2570]

i just play up till level 50 then drop the fuckin game LOL

[@D3bugMod3]

🫡this. FF11 was not only the companies first mmo. It was one of Squares' most profitable games, ever. Have a good one

[@iChoseScylla]

I think he meant FFXIV first version. That being said, FFXI is so blatantly disrespected in these videos with nary a mention despite thousands loving its peak classic design in its heyday.

[@RyanABXY]

the audacity, I had so many thousands of hours in 11 before 14 was even mentioned let alone released then 'reborn'

[@RyanABXY]

@@iChoseScylla I found WoW and others like it (including 14) to hold ur hand too much and lack in experiences and feeling like you earned things. The OG game getting to Jueno without help or spells/items was an accomplishment. Surviving the Dunes was a feat of its own before they patched the despawning. I like the conveniences they'd added over the years but I've played a dozen different MMOs and FFXI has the best memories

[@momob4276]

I used to mod and do official art for a tiny indie mmo back when I was 15 ( for free of course). The mmo peaked at 2k players and averaged 500 and the creator shut down the game nearly 2 decades ago. However someone found me, and contacted me on Discord and asked if I wanted to join their private server of that mmo and I'm like.. bruh.. I'm in my mid 30s and I have a kid and bills to pay. Dude the player-base dedication for some old school MMOs is crazy.

[@usuario_youtube1]

name it!! what's the mmo?

[@vancyboi162]

I pray that you're making up the fact that you have a kid, given your loli avatar...

[@cattysplat]

@@vancyboi162 You're gonna hate this, but anyone can have kids. For better or worse.

[@vancyboi162]

@@cattysplat that's obvious lol, doesn't stop it being a tragedy when a loli pfp does though.

[@user-gj3fp4pg2m]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@vancyboi162 ? their pfp is a character who is literally a teen princess lol not sure why you’re this fixated on their pfp being “loli”

[@J1mmy]

Hope you guys like videos, because this sure is one!!!

[@cadMeFromLife]

Of all the videos you've put out, this is the one you did most recently

[@Zelmazam1]

Revolutionary

[@eddiet7228]

Certainly one of the videos of all time.

[@masterownsu7573]

Brighter shores I have high hopes for.

[@TheWalkThrewer]

i think ashes of creation is the new MMO, currently being made

[@ATXnomad698]

Your point about most MMO players having an "established home" is the best one imo. When you start a new MMO, you're not just asking people to take a risk on a 200-300 hour experience, you're also asking them to *abandon* all the work they just did in a totally different 200-300 hour experience. I think a lot of devs also don't realize/respect how important the social aspect is. If I leave FF14 for the Riot MMO, I'm either losing all the friends I made in FF14 or somehow convincing them all to come with me. That's a huge ask either way.

[@yaazarai]

Thats not too bad. I have 2448hrs in OSRS. But yeah I get the point. Why would I waste time on something new when I can continue my life in OSRS.

[@nicholaslogan6840]

You left out one or... maybe two zeroes. Right?

[@T8-TR]

Sunk cost fallacy is a bitch. It's pretty much why live service titles (MMOs being the proto-live service game) have so many players and why everyone wants in on that bag.

[@yaazarai]

@@T8-TR not sunk cost fallacy when every alternative released is either scamware or trash. OSRS is officially the only decent reputable MMORPG left.

[@parkerquigleypuff]

200-300 hours…. i have 170 days on 1 account on Oldschool Runescape

[@dora3743]

Just to clarify, FFXIV 1.0 (2010) wasn't actually the first Final Fantasy MMO, that was FFXI (2002), and it's still running and has been receiving meaningful updates (like Voracious Resurgence in Autumn). :)

[@EdwardTheMagnificent]

Came to the comments to complain about this, lol.

[@BeatsByZ3P0]

I love the way guild wars 2 does quests. Overworld rotational time based events that are meant to be PUG'd on the spot, with instanced single player or party based "story" content

[@xilj4002]

And we're waiting for the next expansion that's about to drop so we can invite people to check out houses we decorate. But tbf chat was pretty dead today

[@juliotavares3638]

"Blizzard have done everything in its power to self-destruction and still standing" That hit hard man, god dayum

[@jessejames7116]

i absolutely fucking love how youre sitting on various runescape furniture. thats so hilarious to me for some reason

[@whathitwonder4037]

Holy shit.

[@_Aarius_]

17:00 it's insane that runescape perfected mmo quests so long ago and yet so many games still have "kill 10 goblins" ass quests

[@Bombedrumbum]

And yet Slayer, the literal "kill 100 goblins" skill, has been touted as one of the most fun additions to the game lol

[@stephenberg6438]

@@Bombedrumbum It's no coincidence. Killing 100 goblins can be fun when it's tied to the right kind of account progression and incredibly unfun when other kinds of account progression are locked behind it. Runescape got the formula right.

[@belstar1128]

because in runescape you just grind random things and quests are something you do to unlock things i think there should be a mix of wow style quests and runescape style quests in a game or maybe something in between

[@GnralexPlus]

@@Bombedrumbum SLayer is not fun is just rewarding later on. Its fun if you do bosses which you can do without slayer anyway

[@RawCauliflower]

I think for some reason when WoW released, everyone decided that runescape style quests were bad. Fetch quests with no real context behind them just feel safer for developers. You can pump them out quickly and you don't feel like you have to pay for writers even though Jagex devs had to be both coders and writers simultaneously. There is also so much you can do for quests when you have nothing else but combat in your mmo. Also it was also a time period where point and click adventures were losing popularity with the rise of FPS, RTS and more that had new tech to make use of their full potential, and some of the earlier runescape quests had some of the worst traits from the point and click genre (the newer osrs quests at least try to avoid the pitfalls).

[@OceanBytes12]

If Animal crossing and Stardew Valley have taught me anything, the next big MMO will be a lofi farming and relationship focused game. There is a huge number of women and girls that love the social and progression aspects of MMO, but aren't that interested in combat.

[@FinalFrankie]

They’re trying with Palia, with mixed results imo. There isn’t enough group content in that game for it to feel like an MMO, and I got bored.

[@keyofdoornarutorscat]

@@FinalFrankie This is a problem in a lot of games of the "lofi" genre, the idea that you're meant to chill playing it isn't a substitute for fun content

[@straight2thepoint790]

so, mabinogi?

[@OceanBytes12]

@@FinalFrankie I hadn't heard of that game. MMOs in general are super hard to get right. I think some combat is important especially if it is team oriented.

[@smilestheemo3365]

Excuse me, stardew valley is for legit hardcore gamers tyvm

[@noxii2113]

Wizard101 player here. I completely agree that mmo's should cater to new audiences, I've played this game for over a decade and what drew me into Wizard101 was that I was a kid getting inspiration for creativity out of the beautiful development of the 2000-2010s. the smartest thing the company did was to grow up with the audience because it doesn't feel like a kids game as much as it did before and that's the important thing. MMO's should only focus on reporting back to its consumers because at the end of the day, we will keep it alive out of love, not enjoyment.

[@pragmat1k]

"Final Fatnasy's first MMO" Final Fantasy XI is an MMO, Final Fantasy XI is still running, Final Fantasy XI pre-dates WoW. We exist. Remember us, remember that we once lived.

[@jiggerblayne]

There’s still cross over events with ff11 and I think the newest raid is gonna be ff11 themed. I was surprised to find out the character in the newest expansion was taken from ff11. I’d like to play 11 but I can’t afford that many subs

[@Holyduck777]

No

[@pragmat1k]

@@jiggerblayne We get the Iroha event once every few years, Shantotto is in the cash shop, so that event will never come back. I am looking forward to the raids we'll get starting in 7.1.

[@olshay8767]

​@@jiggerblayne a lot of monsters appear from ff11 and share models just w higher textures (mandragoras come to mind), plus designs like the Goblins, Their Machinery, Cait Sith design. Also this is unsourced internet knowladge, but i read once that ff14 subs are partially used to cover the server costs for 11. These games have a lot of respect for one another

[@voltagespc6097]

This is something I've been thinking about for years. With the prominence of wikis, KZbin guides, and social media in general there's never any mystique or sense of adventure that makes MMOs great. And if you choose to forego those knowledge resources, the people you play with will ostracize and gatekeep you. MMOS live on right now due to the nostalgia of those who grew up in its golden age. Once we're gone, I don't see them lasting much longer.

[@TehBuhb]

​@hushed6160 your reply is exactly why mmos are dying. There's nothing lazy about wanting to figure things out for yourself. But if you're not turning your brain off and following the latest meta people will kick you from a group.

[@Just_Flipy]

when i made a simple text game for myself. i randomised the clues and even the positions, so wiki's never worked. caluclators did not work. because profits change each day. instead you have to do it YOURSELF. you have to use excel to make graphs, get the data in, calculate, etc.

[@hawkotf3524]

@@TehBuhbI’m part of a clan and I do quests without guides and no one is pissing their pants about it. If we ever do raids or content together of course I’m not going to come with shit equipment cause I wanna be non-meta. That would essentially be griefing them for a selfish desire.

[@TehBuhb]

@@hushed6160 i'm not a failure at all. I used to tank for a top 3 guild on our server in WoW back in wrath and cataclysm. switched to osrs and raid regularly. but i'm not gonna pretend like being an elitist meta humping douche is gonna keep a game alive.

[@meuanglao7]

Right??? I'm trying to find a static in ffxiv that is willing to do everything blind, figure everything out for ourselves rather than following established guides and strats because figuring shit out is what makes it fun for me, not getting best in slot as fast as humanly possible and parsing for the rest of the expansion. But there's really no one willing to do that anymore. It's all about metrics now. Granted, I do parse, but that's not the fun part for me :b

[@sariussaunders1324]

Your channel is becoming more and more diversified and it feels so healthy. Thanks Jimbo, please try out more games, we love seeing you play em :)

[@Zenjie862]

That's a fantastic way to explain his dynamic at the moment. I second your opinion I want to see him play more games!

[@rokka7188]

Nah, subscription for RuneScape, as shown by that data sheet (102m from subscriptions, 32m for MTX), were already funding RuneScape by itself. MTX is NOT required for MMO to function, if it already has a subscription fee. MTX, like you said, is to top up the wallets of CEOs and investors (As we've seen with the numerous times Jagex has been sold, added tons of MTX, the company who purchased them got their profits and then sell Jagex to another investor). This similar effect happened also to Blizzard, when they sold themselves to Activision. This is NOT about the how MMO could not function without MTX, and I'm pretty tired of this notion by the playerbase for those who defend micro-transactions. I do agree with the original creators of RuneScape, the Gower Brothers, that they never should've sold RuneScape in the first place, to a business that seeks only short-term profits and investment, which this was never about RuneScape struggling or not making updates. This was purely about investment and greed, nothing else. And for other MMOs, this mindset applies to that as well. As for the future, I hope Brighter Shores, Gower Brothers' pet project of a new MMO, which they mentioned will NOT have microtransactions and just a subscription fee, will succeed. And I'll happily transition to that game from RuneScape, as there is no guarantee that the short-sighted people at the top of MMO games, even including Old School RuneScape, would not be ruined by those people at the top. Bonds are already pushing on this, and as the playerbase becomes more permissive of this, the same thing will happen to it as I witnessed it in modern RuneScape.

[@AsixSuffuri]

Indeed, no idea how he'd think server/upkeep costs are outstripping the subscription fee for players. Good video otherwise but that struck me as something quite inaccurate.

[@joelhatterini6392]

I just had a dumb thought but... maybe phone ARGs ARE the new MMOs? I mean think about it, Pokemon GO has an active monthly playerbase of like 80 million people, and a lot of the game requires that you go to socially active hotspots and interact with other people. That's kind of an MMO, right?

[@Green-ls7kt]

O get your reasoning

[@Sketchy--]

I don't mind the "kill X" quests if they're put within a more story driven quest line. "Hey! We need you to go speak with the goblin Warlord." "Also search through their base for supplies" then tack on the "slay 20 goblins" so there is a reason to murder the goblins when doing the primary quests, they're just separate rewards. To improve this, maybe make it a bonus objective gives additional xp, can do the same for sneak or whatever.

[@moose9635]

That literally what Ashes does. In a showcase they showed an example of them doing a side task to kill mintors that changed the zones weather and spawned in a boss. Idk why he assumed so much about the game because he saw a sidebar.

[@Nodiee1]

Eh I still think that's pretty bad. Most RPGs don't tell you to kill x of something when they send you on a quest. They just give you a goal and the killing is a byproduct of trying to achieve that goal. I'd much rather do that in an MMO. Maybe let us turn in junk items that drop from mobs for some sort of reward (exp, gold, reputation, etc) so that however many enemies we kill we can get that same sort of sense of accomplishment from. But don't set a strict number, just give me an interesting quest to do and let me do it.

[@athrowawayperson9990]

although it isn't an MMO, many MMOs would do well to learn from the way Borderlands does quests.

[@Hollow_Tim]

Still sounds like filler. Which is exactly why I don’t play MMOs besides OSRS

[@theremix54]

"Final Fantasy's first MMO was a huge flop" Shows Footage from 14 Version 1.0 Hmm.... Forget something? lol

[@Zenithx622]

then they nuked it and remade into a great game

[@theremix54]

@@Zenithx622 I meant Final Fantasy XI. Was an MMORPG that came out before WoW and is still running. Has a pretty good rep as a hood classic.

[@NicholasFussell]

ToonTown Rewritten is such a niche game with a tight community, loved seeing a clip in the video!

[@mamukii]

so true, love toontown 👍

[@lucypinsocute]

toontowners rise up 🔥🔥

[@TwoChin]

TOOWNTOWN? been 2 decades since I've thought about that game haha. Good to see the community kept it alive

[@UVStardust]

I'm team Corporate Clash. Been playing it obsessively since September last year. I have also played TTO and TTR.

[@mimivrc4148]

@8:30 FFXI was the first final fantasy MMO that came out in 2002. and it still have a very active community today!

[@midivilplanet]

Yeah, I think he may have gotten FFXI and the 1.0 of FFXIV mixed up. Would love to see him make a video on FFXIV.

[@skitz1515]

Yeah I was confused about the flop comment. I played for years and several servers were locked due to overcrowding. Personally I liked it way better than XIV but they killed it with the last expansion where you could just go buy weapons from shops that were better than what you had spent hundreds of hours to get... that's when I was done.

[@gvulture1277]

FF11 was not a flop, it was massive in Japan even after WoW consumed the planet, WoW consumed so much but FF11 still kept fighting and is still kept online today, albeit it's not as good as the private servers that keep the Classic version alive.

[@mimivrc4148]

@@gvulture1277 he was refering to FFXIVs first version, saying it was the first final fantasy MMO. he somehow missed FFXI existing, he wasn't calling FFXI a flop

[@donnyyasu2764]

​@@mimivrc4148 It disheartens me that he talked about WoW being the golden age starter, which is fine, but didn't lump FFXI in with the rest of the games. It was the highest profit FF title until XIV finally took over.

[@tomathin2102]

I really think the Riot MMO still has the best chance because it has the same insane advantage warcraft had back in the day for an influx of players(but stronger in this day and age), it may not last, but it certainly has a solid chance no matter what.

[@HowdyFolksGaming]

The great thing about RubeScape’s quests is that they are actual QUESTS! Little (sometimes big) adventures that you go on that feel like they actually impact the world and progress the plot. Other games have “quests” that are more like… jobs. Gigs, if you will. “Go do this minimal labor for me please and I’ll give you 100 gold.” Doesn’t really leave you feeling like you’ve made any sort of impact on the world.

[@filidhdeklend893]

"The world needs to feel alive, and everyone's end goal CAN'T BE THE SAME!" Nailed it right there.

[@Quaarlos]

100%

[@Duriel123]

Hope you're in good health mentally and physically now j1m!

[@Rawrage1]

an actual sandbox mmo (similar to how Star Wars Galaxies used to be) would be the only thing to change the current MMO meta, less focussed on straight up 'get to max level and kill the same mobs as everyone else' vs completely tailored crafting of every item that players use or need and create their own cities - not sure if that would actually work out but I can be hopeful!

[@adrixshadow]

> less focussed on straight up 'get to max level and kill the same mobs as everyone else The problem is Sandbox MMOs have the same problem with Progression just like any Themepark MMO. There is a reason Sandbox MMOs flaunder. Even if you can have Procedural or Player Driven Content it would still be worthless without the Progression.

[@mp4Junkie]

doesn't roblux basically cover this niche?

[@Junya01]

Isn’t this just Albion online?

[@Joker22593]

Puzzle Pirates has done this for years and even the hardcore fans don't really like the game anymore because the devs just push out monthly cosmetic microtransactions and barely keep the game running.

[@Slimurgical]

Ashes of Creation.

[@CircaMustSurvive]

The dynamic events in Guild Wars 2 was one of the most engaging systems to me in GW2. It was like mining a shooting star in every area all the time with different players. Thought it was a really fun concept.

[@FashionKillaFM]

I’m younger (not gen alpha though) and unfortunately missed the MMO peak but always romanticized MMOs and the dedicated communities that surrounded them. Ive been waiting for a newer MMO that really keeps the scene alive to jump into for years. I’ve played MMO’s here and there smaller ones and final fantasy but i’m so tired like you said of fetch quests. There truly is no point in my mind because by the time I actually get to the point of the story I’m interested in im like 30 hours deep into fetch quests. At that point I might as well play a solo game where the story progression is more linear and isn’t something thats super hard to get back into. Honestly the only thing thats given me hope recently was baldurs gate 3! I want to feel immersed in that fantasy scene, with story, community and genuinely good world building thats convincing! I want to meet people and play with them in that world and actually enjoy my time! Hopefully someday my wish will come true lol

[@Jzwiz]

My main problem with mmo is a lot are class locked, runescape spoiled me by letting me use anything whenever i want depending what i want to do

[@FilthyRamenKing]

Yeah, from top of my head there is only Runescape and Final Fantasy 14 that does not have class locking, at least from the big boys in the genre. WoW is getting closer with that with the next expansion, basically allowing alts to share everything, even most progress in quests.

[@Ravencr3st0998]

@@FilthyRamenKingjust a suggestion in this vein, you might like Albion Online (or might not, it’s full loot PvP in some areas) but all of your skills are tied to your equipment and your inherent exp level in using specific gear. The more you use daggers, the more skills you unlock with daggers, but daggers have specific unique skills

[@PanicGiraffe]

Other than the combat, that's what I hate most about RuneScape. My character has no unique identity. Swapping gear and prayers on tic is not good damage design.

[@Ciph3rzer0]

​@@PanicGiraffe picking one of 6 classes doesn't make you unique either. The best systems put up weak barriers between "classes". Magic the gathering doesn't have rigid boundaries between colors, creature types, or mechanics. Usually you are trading off consistency for power, or trading off versatility for efficiency. But there's nothing stopping you from throwing the most wild pile together and trying to make it work. For a whole category of players, that opens up a world of boundless fun. Path of Exile is a similar game that puts very few hard barriers in place, and build diversity and discovery in that game is through the ceiling. The added factor of gear cost for popular builds opens up the door to explore that tree for more efficiency builds (based on cost).

[@PanicGiraffe]

@@Ciph3rzer0 okay, but none of what you said disputes the fact that tribrid gear swapping is super lame lol

[@JohtoSteve341]

I’m loving your video essay era! Keep up the great work J1mmy!

[@Swerg20]

8:36 don't forget about Final Fantasy 11 which was largely seen as a success

[@Ryotsu2112]

And FF11 was hard mode like EQ. Even though it’s easy mode these days they are still there charging a monthly subscription. 22 years since release and built on a PlayStation 2 devkit and still running.

[@lawoftsunami]

and still is! i see folks genuinely playingFF11 on tiktok lives and having a blast

[@RiogaRivera]

This dude have no idea its a scam just want attention to advertise shit

[@Vallun]

damn jimmy this was a very comprehensive and heartfelt look at the industry. I think it is very telling how MMOs are trying to design more single player elements into them (complete ed game content solo), and how singleplayer games are adding more MMO elements to them (dailies or repeatable missions) shows that the golden era might be somewhere in between, or not even an MMO at all

[@cattysplat]

Every other game adopted MMO FOMO and selling ingame services for real money. The market for MMOs is shrinking because old players would rather socialise in real life and young players prefer newer games to old.

[@unknowndata3895]

I turned from WoW to Lotro and it was my best decision! After years and years of WoW with his toxic community and min maxing idiot I came to a nice and warm places. The community in Lotro is so friendly and helpful. The hole world is hand made. Even the sidequests have there own little storyline. Lotro is amazing

[@TearThatRedFlagDown]

I think a lot of MMOs implement systems like the typical soulless questing systems you see in 99% of them is because the people making these games are just implementing those systems because they think that those kinds of systems define an MMO, when they don't. And that is probably along with the fact that MMOs cost a lot to make and are easily the most risky genre to make, which makes innovation less likely. So I had a thought just now, most devs making MMOs tend to some extent focus on the scale of the world when they release their MMO but Runescape certainly didn't start out with the massive world it has now, so what I'm thinking is what if someone just made it on a far smaller scale to start with, perfect its systems from there and then go on to create more content for a game like that and gradually expand the world? Would that be more viable?

[@Baraborn]

How small is too small?

[@cattysplat]

GW2 tried to be different and got punished for it. Many long term MMOers returned to their homes.

[@TearThatRedFlagDown]

@@cattysplat What do you mean GW2 got punished for it? Even now it's considered a top tier MMO and is clearly popular, are you high?

[@ffeona]

Watching you sit on a OSRS chair the whole vid was my fav part 🪑

[@GreedyRadish]

I''ve given a lot of thought to what it would take to introduce a new MMO into my life now that I'm an "adult" with a "job" and "responsibilities." I think the biggest thing for me is that I can't really sit and grind for 6-8 hours every night like I did when I was younger. That said, I'm not interested in a more casual MMO - I've tried some of those and they never hold my attention. What I came up with is actually really inspired by how I've played Runescape for many years: an MMO where building up the stats on your account is something you can do with very low attention paid to the game (possibly even something you do through a mobile app) and then the raids/dungeons/whatever engaging content the devs put in is where you have to buckle down and give the game your full focus for several hours at a time.

[@booey-l5o]

So... RuneScape. You came up with RuneScape

[@AskJoe1]

I loved EVE onlines take on skills when I was younger because I was coming from Runescapes grind (incase you don't know in EVE you're skills train passively over time through a queue, you just load it and let it work no grind involved). It felt like cheating, I could just focus on my money making part of the game rather then having to navigate both. Unfortunately their management is very short sighted and doesn't invest resources into the appropriate things so it's suffered for sure. I loved EVE and to an extent still do but she ain't the same anymore.

[@joeye1575]

One of the most important aspects of OSRS for me is the varying levels of attention I can give it. I can grind slow skills at work, then come home and run CG

[@smokercat]

@@joeye1575 I feel like the ability to second monitor OSRS/RS3 sometimes is a significant reason many people stick with em. It is for me, at least. I’ve gone through many shows, movies and anime just grinding away

[@solodolo7161]

Yeah this is my exact reasoning for settling into OSRS as my "home-base" MMO. I only started about 1.5 years ago now, but what I really love about it that most MMOs today don't practice is how progression I make is set in stone and always relevant. No matter if its as little as 50k exp in a skill or getting that sick unique drop after going dry. It's all progression that sticks and has meaning towards the larger goal you set for yourself. It doesn't become meaningless after an update or something. A skill at 99 is a 99 and will always be a 99. It's the perfect MMO to play as an adult who can't play all the time or might need to drop it at a moments notice imo. Being able to "afk" progression in varying forms is also huge and is a big contributing factor. When I actually have time to focus I can then use the time I've spent afking and actually put it to use which is fucking awesome and I wish other MMOs would figure out a way to do similar ideas of progression.

[@BBQKana]

I feel like one of the biggest issues we have is limited time. The younger generation doesn't really seem to be interested in MMOs, while the older generation (us) no longer has the time to participate as much as they'd want to. I'd love to play games socially with friends, but it's getting increasingly difficult to find a time that suits everyone. Most people have families or just generally different priorities. You might start an MMO together, but pretty quickly your single friends have done several ten hour grinds while you can do two at most, and suddenly there's no more content to do together.

[@RendiMento]

Disagree with the need for micro transactions. I remember during covid 2020 OSRS projections showed it had its most profitable year of all time YET reinvested the least amount back into the game of any year. A lot of it is just pure greed by top execs, not the money required for maintaining the game and employees. Definitely can be done solely with subscriptions

[@Aqpbtw]

Always going to be an issue when the company is publicly traded, I agree subscriptions are enough but when they need to sustain profit they turn to MTX or cosmetic stores😢

[@mashonem]

You’re saying it took a global pandemic for OSRS to be profitable, and you think that’s sustainable 😂

[@RendiMento]

@@mashonem read the comment next time. their “highest” profits were then. They profit massively every year and most of it goes back to top execs

[@TylerRayPittman]

​@@Aqpbtw no shit, that's why we love valve

[@johndoe4034]

This is exactly how I feel, it doesn't matter how good another mmo is or how much someone tries to tell me it's better, wow is my home and will always be my home until it's gone. Been going strong for 18 years and hoping for another 18 years more.

[@alemorikec]

Thats how I feel with EverQuest.

[@27sspider27]

Osrs here

[@Jallenbah]

As a quest guy it continues to blow my mind that we haven't seen you play FFXIV. I mean it has a 300+ hour main quest with an amazing story and hundreds of hours of additional quest content on top of that. It's _the_ MMO for story and quests. It's so good.

[@imperialfish454]

As someone who tried his best, I could not stand FF quests, they are the same as every other mmo. Last year I grinded my ass from a new character to endwalker, and while the writing was theoretically good, the gameplay and the quests were just hollow and soulless. There was occasionally a good one, usually at the end of arcs or for job advancements. But so so so many quests were just "go there, kill 15 enemies" "walk to this part of the map" "now walk to this part of the map" "watch a cutscene to justify your killing of these 15 enemies" Putting a bunch of fluff around the quests only makes them slightly more tolerable, but they're still just as empty as almost every other mmo. Runescape does quests right, because they're handcrafted and individual stories.

[@ImGonnaFudgeThatFish]

​@imperialfish454 FFXIV has those types of quests too. There are quite a few sidequests that fill that void. Your problem is that you don't like the main storys overarching narrative that goes beyond your character

[@imperialfish454]

@@ImGonnaFudgeThatFish No, my problem is what I said, that there is a staggering amount of fluff. The only thing that sets it apart from something like WoW is that I can't actually do the quests with my friends, which is why I picked up FF in the first place. And that's a negative.

[@Bigpooch]

The problem with modern MMOs is that they're trying to mimic the big MMOs in their current state, the state that players hate the most (RS3, retail WoW for example). There's a big old circle jerk of the same formula among modern MMOs expecting to be the next big thing, but they're forgetting about the massive foundation that brought those games to fame in the first place. While there isn't a clear solution to creating a brand new hit in the modern era of MMOs, there's definitely a lot of problems that don't need to exist. The major point being the rush. All these devs seem to think that the gameplay starts when a game ends, so you have to bee-line it to the endgame to play the daily/weekly regurgitation of content and wait months for small patches of more daily/weekly content. Meanwhile in OSRS and classic WoW, the content is the progression, sure they have endgame content but the games are front-heavy, they let you establish yourself in the worlds and create what you call a home-base. You don't just start off and hand in 3 quests then become 1/6th of the way done to max level. Modern MMOs have effectively reinvented the wheel into a square, and we just need to take a step back. Look at the success of WoW's SoD, it's a fresh take on classic and it's booming, each season popping off harder than the last, drawing in new and old players. MMO devs need to stop chasing the wrong demographic and go back to the importance of making a world people can progress and explore through.

[@adrixshadow]

Endgame exists because Leveling Progression is *Permanent* , that means they need to switch to Gear Progression instead, and any Gear that is below Max Level is Worthless and Obsolete, thus the rush to "Endgame". What is needed is to make Leveling itself be Relevant. And the only way to do that is with *Permadeath* .

[@comq01]

bruh we just know that what you typed is bullshit, if it was true classic wow would literally be THE new wow product, if everyone wanted a game like you describe it would be popping off rn, instead theres like less than 80k players? including the "classic+ version" sure its not the worst ever but just proves thats its a niche and not the main thing like youre trying to suggest

[@howdlej123]

Basically new MMOs need to lose the idea of leveling IMO in traditional sense of "number go up, me stronger". MMOs need to look at ways of making the players feel like they can do anything but its down to their own ability and skill to progress. The difference between a high level and low level should be their knowledge of the systems, how much they know about the world, how good their strategic thinking is and mastery of the controls, this is what makes non-MMO multiplayer games so popular. More interactive control systems will go a long way in helping that, say you take a combat system like chivilary or dark souls and put it into a traditional high fantasy MMO where the melee combat users are expected to fight bosses with their own ability vs relying on spamming their ability bar. Bosses don't just stand around getting spanked until they hit a certain condition to activate a wipe spell that the players can keep track of and cast counter abilities. Instead the bosses are aggressive, dangerous even and should only be tried by experience players who are ready to absorb the loss of being wiped out. Take a look at planetside 2 for example. The difference between a high level end game player and a newbie is nothing more than personal experience and unlocks. But those unlocks make very little difference overall, a 2000 hour player can still be gunned down just as easily by a newbie whos got 5 hours in the game.

[@dark666105]

6:30 where is that image from? I wanted to blow it up and take a closer look.

[@mercster]

I think there are still enough older/mature players for Ashes of Creation to succeed. It could be the last and best expression of what you're saying is the "old style" MMO. I dunno, probably just my hope speaking. If combat and world engagement is good enough, I think "kill 20 goblins" could mean more to a game than our current examples. Who the hell knows. Hope you're feeling better Jimmy.

[@Phantasmus]

The hardest part, IMO, is that the things that would make an ideal MMO are hard to have coexist and be balanced against each other in a way that's fun. It's a ridiculously tight rope to be able to make something that is both balanced and fun to play. If your class can exclusively double jump for example, that's super fun, but if that double jump gives them the mobility that shames every other class to the point that everyone plays the double jump-y class, then balance is lost. There's a lot of layers to consider, how do you make an MMO that has wide sprawling spaces to give a sense of wonder and exploration, while also populating it with fun and interesting things to do but also balancing the things you can get out of it against the rest of the game? Things can be fun novelties but players also want to progress, almost no one playing WoW does those world quests where you guide turtles to water simply because they're fun, it's because there's a tangible reward to it. All this to say that making a good MMO is super hard and for a good one to come out these days, it needs a perfect storm of professional, passionate devs with a clear cut vision for what they want from a game.

[@Baraborn]

You USE AI = Artificial Intelligence.

[@adrixshadow]

The problem is that Content is Static. If the Content was more Dynamic that then you wouldn't know what the best option and build would at any given time and encounter. That's why Tabletop RPGs can support Role Playing as any Class and Character, the GM makes shit up that is suitable for the party to face. If you have wide enough variety in terms of Challenges and Dynamic Content that players can select from, then they can choose from what is suitable for their current character. They need to Think what they can currently do and how they can adapt and prepare for that situation.

[@ryokot]

who else had a very good laugh at the giant hippo thing floating then plopping onto the ground?? 17:46 🤣🤣🤣

[@sixteenseven123]

This makes me imagine an mmo that utilizes ai as a means to keep the game world alive, constantly changing environments and weather, plants and trees going through life cycles, npc’s operating almost as players going about their own journeys and generally interacting with the world, and every player having a legitimately unique and somewhat self written story to follow throughout their time in the world. I think it could be done

[@WesterlyToast]

Slight correction on Final Fantasy it's 1.0 patch was the flop. FF11 the first final fantasy MMO is still going

[@blacknyellow962]

Honestly the questing structure (ignoring the joke quest One Small Favour) is phenomenal in Runescape. It's not just the same boring "Slay X amount of Creatures and turn in" over and over again and actually gives a genuine sense of accomplishment. The first time I ever completed Dragon Slayer I for example, I felt like a total badass when I defeated Elvarg.

[@Tamilz]

Zzz not after u get 100m exp max total info cape and u dont get farm pet lollllll dead game

[@JohnFromAccounting]

Runescape quests are actual quests. WOW quests are shopping lists.

[@undercoverspy123]

Freminik trials is easily the biggest shopping list dogshit quest in all MMO's it's just OSRS delusion, It typically does a good job of show not tell though.

[@adrixshadow]

Meh Runescape just cheats by hiding the grinding outside of the quests.

[@X-Stacy]

do not know if this is your fault or KZbin's fault but 2 ads and 1 sponsered ad in the first 5 mins is crazy edit: 6 ads!!!! wtf 6 ads in a 21 min video. that's worse than cable tv

[@AnimeXFever54]

It’s getting bad on KZbin as a whole I had a 10 minute video have a ad every 2 minutes and one unskippable one at the end. And the KZbinr had a sponsor too it’s really greedy

[@fran13r]

i mean its so easy to replace the "kill 20 goblins" thing Rescue the hostage (and to do so you'll have to inevitably kill the 20 goblins) or retake the stronghold or the village or raid the outpost or deliver the whatever the fuck or investigate the area there is never a good reason for "kill x amount of enemies" quests other than the studio wanted more quest but not more workload you could even do an open ended "gain this person in that other village's trust" and there would be different ways to go about that so players can have a more personalized experience

[@danily11]

As far as unexplored territory goes in mmos, one thing that comes to mind are campaigns from warhammer online. Instead of a totally 1:1 overworld, warhammer onlines zones are arranged into campaigns which represent theatres of battle between to competing factions, each campaign is divided into tiers and each tier which represent level ranges and each tier is split into a number of zones. At end game, at the beginning of each new campaign the bottom tier of that campaign becomes availible, the factions fight each other for control of the zones and once one faction takes control of all the zones in a tier they take control of that tier and the campaign moves onto the next tier with the winning faction starting with an advantage. The last tier of each campaign has more zones than the others, and in order to win a faction also has to successfully siege the opposing factions stronghold, which is a big pvp raid. Sieging the stronghold and winning the campaign opens the winning faction up to attacking and occupying the losing factions captial, which turns the capital (which is massive by the way) into a persistant pvp battleground for some time. Warhammer online was primarily a pvp game, but you could imagine a more pve centric mmo doing something similar, just imagine an mmo version of baldurs gate 3, where the world consists of a number of persistant sandboxes, where players go down branching story paths and change the world until someone hits a trigger that moves the campaign into its next act, which branches based on the thongs players did in the previous act, and this continues until the campaign reaches its conclusion and players get to take part in an epilogue for some time before the camaign resets. Id imagine a game lole this would have character progression somewhat similar ff14 where its intended players only play one character and that character is able to change their selected class outside of campaigns. With the main progression coming from unlocking new classes and content within each campaign

[@KARRIERx]

Can i get link to that image/graph of many online games names, with their years on the X axis, in Black and white?

[@mwm5942]

the mmo community is mostly to blame. a huge chunk of them are low life min/maxers putting full time hours looking to exploit in any way possible without any intention of having fun. any "good" mmo will just be absolutely bombarded with hackers, rwt, ptw, botters, ect. there's nothing we can do to stop them.

[@cattysplat]

The reality is much of the older playerbase just stopped playing with randoms and only play with close friends.

[@JediMB]

I'm watching this while playing Final Fantasy XI. (Final Fantasy's actual first MMO, released in 2002, 11 years before A Realm Reborn.)

[@JediMB]

Also, it's extremely funny hearing World of Warcraft being referred to as a slower-paced MMO when you remember how Final Fantasy XI was viewed by WoW players back in 2004.

[@fiddleriddlediddlediddle]

The calculation is simple. For a new MMO to succeed, first it has to be fun. "The next generation doesn't like the slow pace of MMOs" Bro the next generation doesn't wanna be bored out of their mind grinding and unlike when we were kids they don't have to. They don't have to be bored. If an MMO is relying on you being so bored you'll grind for 99 levels it's just not a fun game and nobody will want to play it if they could have fun doing something else.

[@Dsrikers]

FFXIV was their second MMO not the first that was FFXI. The MMO that flopped was FFXIV and they remade it into the current version

[@maycontainnuts3127]

8:35 final fantasy 14 is the second mmo released in that franchise, the first is final fantasy 11. also most fans consider the first release of ff14 a different game than the current release, realm reborn. ff11 has maintained a community and is still supported by square which is nuts because its so primitive in comparison but i guess theres enough of a crowd that it appeals to for square to continue to support it.

[@tott598]

I think your previous idea of official private servers in osrs where players can create content and the best of that potentialy massive playermade pool of content gets added to the main game if it passed the polls. That would make for a beast of a game in any genre.

[@Brentastrophe]

You're not wrong. Here's hoping Brighter Shores is good, but for the most part a new mmorpg now is only gonna be about 3 years of content tops. If you even get that. The only upside is most mmorpgs now have some way of playing free to find out if you'd even like it.

[@blackgoth74]

2:41: to skip the bs

[@ikeaira8701]

FFXI was Square's first FF MMO :( That to me will always be the beginning of the golden age, and it's ERA age from release until roughly 2010 was/is the MMO a lot of people crave with MMOs nowadays....Which you can still experience via P.Servers(Best one hands down imo would be HorizonXI for those interested, or EdenXI as a secondary option). It has a huge learning curve tho, and isn't for the faint of heart at all as it is an older MMO that has an "interesting" Ui navigation haha, but once you get that down...man...it truly is the greatest MMO to ever exist. Retail is still great if you want to experience the story(which is amazing) and still has a dedicated community in retail to cover most side content you need an actual group for that Trust can not handle. That being said, I do love FFXIV(more of a love/hate relationship with it, and the only reason I stick around is sunk time fallacy) and is where I spend most of my time at in the MMO space. I do play FFXI on the side when I get the itch for something More though as it provides everything I crave XIV had. Plus I got into XI super late.....so there is that too, but being able to experience that ERA through the P.Servers solidifies it to me as the greatest MMO to ever been created. I wish they'd remake that game with SOME of the QoL that came with the later years minus the Trusts

[@StutteringJourney-ic3sp]

I will say it! The issue is ALSO the playerbase its self. In the past, MMOs were a place to make new friends and hangout with your friends, now they have become a min-max hypercompetitive autism fest

[@Tjtjtav]

great video, i would love you to take a look into ashes of creation tho, there is monthly dev streams, soon another alpha test etc. (they have actually had conversations about how quests and questing in general with work please dont let that one instance of what the quests much less the entire game will be like) its supposed to be the next big thing for multiple reasons and it doesnt even flaunt the title of "the next wow killer" or anything like that, the ceo(and main backer of the entire thing btw, its crazy hes dropped like 20m+ on this alone) has made it very clear hes making a game he would enjoy. i could go on for ages but please take a look. ty great video once more!

[@Mythikal13]

Shoutout to the SWGemu devs for keeping star wars galaxies alive

[@JosephShapiroTech]

The original creators of RuneScape are working on an MMO that releases this year called Brighter Shores

[@eeyun5279]

The gower brothers?

[@Noface121]

@@eeyun5279 Yes

[@JustaDudeTryinToLearnPiano]

Honestly i think our generation underestimates the current and future generations of gamers. My kids are 5, 7 and 8, love fortnite, roblox, etc., but they still love watching me play osrs, and they play it when they get a chance. MMOs will always be a good cure for boredom, regardless of age. Just gotta get people into the games

[@nycto5335]

Exactly. And even then from what I've seen some games on Roblox are a lot like MMOs anyways. Imo the only thing stopping MMOs from further getting younger players for the future is ease of access. Games like Fortnite, Roblox, etc. have mobile and console support as an example. Meanwhile a lot of MMOs are locked to PC, need memberships, have a higher ESRB rating, etc.

[@tsuneki9199]

I guess there is also change in digital landscape. If you are mid-30s right now, playing MMOs in your teens and 20s, it wasn’t just a “good game” but an alternative to social media, or even THE social media. Killing 200 goblins or collecting that ultra rare gem stone was an excuse to keep immersing yourself. Now, there that everything is supposed to be social, I doubt new MMOs can be that for the younger kids.

[@diytto]

Siege Camp is developing MMO games that are pretty unique with Foxhole and their new game Anvil Empires. They still have a lot of work to make these games truly succeed on a large scale, but they are one of the few developers really innovating in the MMO space.

[@booey-l5o]

Out of curiosity, how would you describe their innovations?

[@kaylor87]

I can guarantee you one thing about the next big mmo -- it's gunna be in virtual reality. 100%, no question. An insane, Ready Player One type of VR MMO is what it's going to take to someday rip us all away from OSRS and WoW. And it will appeal to all children and adults alike. All of humanity will get hooked on an actually good VR experience lol.

[@SeraphSonata9]

It'll be a good long while. The few current VR mmos are not doing well.

[@FelicityUwU]

I agree with the sentiment. Not because "vr us the future of ✨everything✨ and it's ✨technological✨" or anything so vague, but because vr just has a lot of possibilities for socal stuff. Especially when you have face and body tracking, as non verbal (and non text) communication is a part of human communication we often don't get from games but totally could in vr

[@kaylor87]

@@FelicityUwU Agreed, it is very cool. It opens up a whole new world of digital experiences. I played VR mini golf the other day and had more fun than I've ever had playing real mini golf lol.

[@CptMaximus]

Destiny 2 is an MMO that doesn't get enough credit for successfully finding and succeeding in a new niche. Many games have tried to replicate it and failed. I feel like that's the most logical road, truly innovating on the MMO formula can still lead to succes.

[@slashedpie2306]

Content is the biggest problem for Destiny 2, the devs are known to starve out their playerbase of content otherwise they would ask them for more. Which would force them to invest more money into their cash cow

[@Soprani_0703]

recently discovered ur channel, ur a gem and I love ur vid style

[@droid1909]

i’ve really wanted to play a mmo for a long time i’m only 15 but the ones that are still there are just so huge is so overwhelming

[@mysticalfitzy9844]

After 20 years i left runescape in a box on my shelf. Metaphorically of course. I shall live vicariously through all of you.

[@kupacmac]

Guild Wars 2 tried revamping MMORPG quests by making dynamic events that just happen as you play the game, but the instant-gratification crowd were turned off because they have no patience.

[@HelloThereWhy]

That is not the reason people didn’t like guild wars 2

[@VamanaGW2]

do share ​@@HelloThereWhy

[@cattysplat]

It was worse. The streamers just moved in giant zergs from one event to the other to level, ignoring all story. Hitting max level they just realised that there was no other end game created yet but more event farming, so they mass quit. GW2 today is full of endgame content, completely different game, but they will never come back.

[@iabaca]

Although osrs perfected questing, its not just that that makes the game great. Its also the fact that the economy is so strong, and more importantly, all content is relevant. Theres no typical "end game" being a level 30, you still feel like you are contributing to the game. You still feel rewarded. I stayed at level 80-90 for over 3 years and still having a blast

[@MiamiDfins13]

Where u get that 3D map in the intro?

[@calamity1853]

omg seeing wizard101 pop up for a second was so cool while im playing wizard101 right now

[@boomkruncher325zzshred5]

Ya know what? I think you’re missing out on what’s possibly one of the biggest MMOs to exist in recent years: Rust. Yes, it’s an MMO. It’s thousands of players on hundreds of servers catering to their vast player base. Just because the company behind Rust doesn’t own the vast majority of the servers for the game doesn’t mean those servers don’t exist or don’t have dedicated players that come back wipe after wipe. It’s social, it’s PvP, it has metas and conventions (dirty roof campers vs. solo builders vs. 20-person-deep clans and their massive bases vs. goofy role players, etc.) and it has multiple lines of both hard and soft progression (Workbench levels vs. your skill as an FPS player vs. your ingenuity in building your base, etc.). It’s just not counted among those big shots because, well, it doesn’t compete with them. It doesn’t have to. It has its niche and it makes that niche as unique and experience as players can get. Once you fall down the Rust rabbit hole, it’s veeeeeeery hard to climb out 🤣 And the community is HECKIN passionate, AND international AND multilingual. There’s no other game like Rust. And that, more than anything, is what an MMO is trying to make you feel like: that you’re in a place that doesn’t exist anywhere else, and that you’re feeling something you can’t feel anywhere else. And if that hooks you? You’re home.

[@Ciph3rzer0]

I think an MMO needs to have some kind of persistent nature, and some kind of open world, in the traditional definition. I think Lost Ark is a weak example of an MMO, because everything is instanced to low numbers, but it's on the lists. Meanwhile something like Path of Exile is very active with large numbers of people returning. There is no "open world" and most people play the fresh league, so it's not really persistent. However, the economy is diverse, clan activity is high, interactions between people is higher than most MMOs. The limited trading system and dozens of systems you could interact with means you're served well if you can provide a consistent service or know someone who does. Add that guy farming the shit you need to your list and hit him up the next time you're in need, beats dealing with flaky randos who might be scamming or price fixing. POE solved the specialization problem in a way that most companies just fuck up in an annoying way. "Craft a million leather shirts that are useless so you can "specialize" and make higher quality". A system that just requires capital investments and is inaccessible to a normal player. I think other survival games count too. Ark has a MASSIVE community, that shitty game would have no chance of it wasn't for the community support it has. People are dedicated, and clans come back routinely for dev updates or new community events. You're really making me think that the "MMO core" for a lot of games has really been outsourced and democratized, partially due to technology making that process easier for the average person to contribute. The best games these days are community built. That's why I played Minecraft for like, 10 years, and kids LOVE Roblox, which is probably the modern MMO now that I think of it...

[@cattysplat]

Similar thing can be said for Minecraft. It's a giant sandbox of community activity and interaction. Pick an activity and there are literally thousands of other people doing stuff you like too.

[@richardandersson7085]

I know there is plenty of stigma for the game development of Star Citizen, but their concept of Server Meshing is the game changer (heh) that I think you are looking for. Seamless server transitioning without loading is something that I thought wasn't even possible until I watched them demo it. Even if Star Citizen itself is not the game that breaks the mold, that tech is the next big thing in gaming.

[@TRVPHAUS]

League Of Legends is making an MMO

[@MiamiDfins13]

Totally random thought but I think next gen MMOs will have NPCs that interact with the community using conversational AI. NPCs in the world will grow based off of community interaction and thus make the game feel alive

[@adrixshadow]

That's completely worthless. There is no meaningful interaction with real life players, something that "MMOs" are supposed to have lots of. If you can make meaningful AI interactions with NPCs then why not figure out how to make meaningful interactions with players too? MMO developers haven't been able to figure this out, not even those suppose Indie "Sandbox MMOs". I doubt they will figure out something with the AI either.

[@AzarokGames]

the comments 18mins in about osrs feeling alive. i agree but the biggest thing that turned osrs for me back into a mmo from a single player game was your channel chat so thanks for more than just the content jimmy, you are a massive part of why i enjoy my osrs time even more than i did before

[@alex132788]

I think you're vastly under estimating just how much Ashes of Creation is innovating... some kill 20 goblins quest is such a minor part of the game.

[@zer00rdie]

Ashes will be the next flop.

[@alex132788]

@@zer00rdie maybe, we shall see

[@Vujkan]

@@zer00rdie definitly not,they going step by step and also already have crazy player base/community army who support the game,so game will be success 100%

[@jesusantispray]

@@Vujkan lol oh you sweet summer child. do you know how many times these words have been spoken before? I want to hold onto hop for ashes but its going to be years still until its actually ready and even then we'll see if anyone still cares by that point

[@Vujkan]

@@jesusantispray y child 25 years experienced mmorpg player,i know what i talk.This is the first mmorpg in history which is made around of community,also this mmos take a time bcs going step by step,always ask for feedback what is most important part if you want to success!I am same like you dont trust anything before see final shot/Release,but Steven doing great job bcs he is gamer and know where is the problem with this genre!

[@Ziontrainism]

MadSeason brought me here. Subbed!

[@jamessunderlandseventh7410]

16:28 that was quite an unreasonable segment, truly a ludicrous argument. Not even trying to see the forest for the trees, but the continent for the grains of sand.

[@TheImperviousMind]

6:58 Fortnite did not inspire PUBG, it was actually the opposite. Fortnite used to be a tower defense game and then started to copy PUBGs success (which still holds the record for more concurrent players on steam)

[@dangerexplosian]

I was just about to comment about how pubg was first and broke records on release

[@vahloksekun646]

21:46 Locust Swarm. Loving the reference to NKB's MMO video. ;)

[@par1631]

The next massive MMO will look a lot like an isekai with extremely little in the way of direct quest and progress being made doing whatever you’re doing until you become the best with skill expression being a large portion of it

[@countyingula]

well i wont be playing it if so

[@Oct0ber_Skyy]

Can’t wait for @Framed and @Settled to comment.

[@realraptor]

OSRS 90% are bots lol

[@Awton]

What is that game at 6:22 called? I know I've played that game in the past

[@ryanjones4106]

Throne and Liberty has been fun so far

[@oshaghenesy]

That last point you made in chapter 3, about 15:30 is really the #1 driving factor behind this I think.

[@Anook]

Great vid J1mmy as usual. Just sorry Asmon copies it with his voice over for quadruple views. Sadge.

[@ericbrintonmusic]

17:08 fully agree with this. When I played D4 at launch I saw everyone rush as fast as possible by boosting etc. through all content to get to the endgame content and then discovered it was all hollow. The locust swarm is a great way to describe this. We as gamers really need to move away from this mentality

[@vegekusononi1943]

There is a content creator who plays FFXIV. He is doing a Solo Only type challenge where he has to do Dungeons, Trials and other tasks with no help at all. Not even using the Marketboard (Auction) and Shop NPCs. Meaning he has to level up not only his combat classes but also his Gathering and Crafting. Quest Rewards are also discarded. From what I saw he already passed the first Expansion and is I think halfway through the second.