“We’ve lost all automation”. Emergency return. American Boeing 737 returns to Dallas. Real ATC

THIS VIDEO IS A RECONSTRUCTION OF THE FOLLOWING SITUATION IN FLIGHT:
26-FEB-2024. An American Airlines Boeing 737-800 (B738), registration N812NN, performing flight AAL1868 / AA1868 from Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport, TX (USA) to Pittsburgh International Airport, PA (USA) shortly after departure declared an emergency, requested return back to DFW Airport and reported loss of all automation (flight directors, autothrottle, autopilot). After running through the checklists the pilots reported their intentions to do an overweight landing and requested the emergency services to meet them on the ground. After landing the airplane vacated the runway and stopped on taxiway for inspection.
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#realatc #aviation #airtrafficcontrol
Image from thumbnail was provided by a passenger.
_______________
Timestamps:
00:00 Description of situation
00:17 The pilot declares an emergency shortly after takeoff. Loss of all automation
01:08 Controller starts vectoring the aircraft. The pilots are running the checklist
03:15 The aircraft was transferred to the frequency of Approach controller
04:31 The flight crew is ready to return to Dallas
07:28 The pilot contact Tower controller
08:00 Landing. Communications on the ground
_______________
THE VALUE OF THIS VIDEO:
THE MAIN VALUE IS EDUCATION. This reconstruction will be useful for actual or future air traffic controllers and pilots, people who plan to connect life with aviation, who like aviation. With help of this video reconstruction you’ll learn how to use radiotelephony rules, Aviation English language and general English language (for people whose native language is not English) in situation in flight, which was shown. THE MAIN REASON I DO THIS IS TO HELP PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND EVERY EMERGENCY SITUATION, EVERY WORD AND EVERY MOVE OF AIRCRAFT.
SOURCES OF MATERIAL, LICENSES AND PERMISSIONS:
Source of communications - www.liveatc.net/ (I have a permission (Letter) for commercial use of radio communications from LiveATC.net).
Map, aerial pictures (License (ODbL) ©OpenStreetMap -www.openstreetmap.org/copyrig...) Permission for commercial use, royalty-free use.
Radar screen (In new versions of videos) - Made by author.
Text version of communication - Made by Author.
Video editing - Made by author.
HOW I DO VIDEOS:
1) I monitor media, airspace, looking for any non-standard, emergency and interesting situation.
2) I find communications of ATC unit for the period of time I need.
3) I take only phrases between air traffic controller and selected flight.
4) I find a flight path of selected aircraft.
5) I make an animation (early couple of videos don’t have animation) of flight path and aircraft, where the aircraft goes on his route.
6) When I edit video I put phrases of communications to specific points in video (in tandem with animation).
7) Together with my comments (voice and text) I edit and make a reconstruction of emergency, non-standard and interesting situation in flight.

[@davefnewell]

As a long term DFW AA pilot, I thought the pilots in this scenario were just outstanding.. Great situational awareness and seemed to be really on the ball on what they had to do . They even thought of asking for a straight out heading in the event of a missed approach.. That is being ahead of the airplane in a difficult situation.. Good on them.

[@MrPomelo555]

Completely agree. 👍

[@elias4214]

Amazing hand flying for track and altitude also. Some people can't keep such straight lines even having autopilot on

[@robd2184]

I don’t see there’s a rush to come back overweight for this scenario . Was the weather bad or going downhill ?

[@danielleclare2938]

Why wait for something else to go wrong??? @@robd2184

[@timduggan1461]

What? No automation. And you call yourself a pilot!?!?!

[@JoeRantCT]

By far this is the most professional exchange during emergency I've ever heard.

[@maxiterr]

We've just lost all automation as far as flight directors and autothrottle, autopilot, all that. "Very good, thank you".

[@shanishkalanza2409]

lol

[@tedmeeuwsen712]

We have lost our autopilot and auto throttles and cant remember how to hand fly anymore.

[@shakey2634]

I’m sure this will be heavily covered in the next recurrent training session.

[@donnamauer3215]

​@@tedmeeuwsen712 They did just fine.

[@rtbrtb_dutchy4183]

@@donnamauer3215except it’s not an emergency. 😂😂

[@madmaxsaturn]

"tower's being a pain in the butt" lol

[@repatch43]

I am curious what they were saying to make that statement happen? Did they think it wasn't an actually emergency or something?

[@randyschaub5452]

And let’s always keep the most-qualified folks up front for safety’s sake. Great job by this crew.

[@Lukeduke7773]

Yeah that’s not an issue never has been never will be no need to even make that comment. Some real weird racist fear mongering going on about under qualified people of color being “given” jobs. Absolute made up nonsense.

[@JAMESWUERTELE]

And atc

[@marlinweekley51]

My guess is last night was poker night and approach guy lost to tower guy. 😆 Good work everyone 👍

[@critterwatcher8009]

Newish to listening to the ATC channels - but gotta say "tower's being a pain in the butt" is a new one to me.

[@SpaceGeek321]

Yeah, came here to comment that - controller attitude is rare during the day, but seems to happen more on these videos. And at JFK, BOS, LAX...

[@vst9266]

Is a technical expression.

[@Look_What_You_Did]

Ever been to tejus? It's a shit hole...

[@scottlenahan8228]

As ATC, I can tell you the moral isn’t great and tempers are on edge. Been a fun couple of years..

[@david_reimer]

D/FWs Runway 17R is closed for reconstruction, so they've had to move departures over to 17C and arrivals to 17L. Closing 17C for an emergency would cause massive delays; so that's probably why tower was hesitant and wanted a timeline. (Just an explanation for tower's attitude. Emergency aircraft gets whatever they want.)

[@raygale4198]

All that was missing at the end was the pilot saying 'how do you land one of these things manually?' This was a pleasure to listen to, clear communication, cooperation by all, well done.

[@JMHTruck32005]

Yup...😂😂😂

[@RetroGamingSweden]

AAL 1868: "American 1868" Tower: "Go ahead American 1868" AAL1868: "So how do you land this aircraft manually, American 1868" Tower: "American 1868, Stand by.." Tower: "American 1868.." AAL1868: "American 1868" Tower: "American 1868, Maintain heading and expedite descent to 200" AAL1868: "Descending to 200, American 1868" Tower: "American 1868, When at 200 pull back on the yolk as hard as you can. F&R will be there to put out the fire. See you on the other side" AAL1868: "At 200ft Pull hard. Thanks for the assist, American 1868" Tower: "You're welcome".

[@Adair9800]

Proper and quick decision making of the crew. Retired as a 787 pilot for a different airline, but my first F/O position with my airline was on the DC8. Remember one flight, a transcon, maybe PHL to SFO at night time with a deferred inop autopilot, and from my memory there were no Auto-throttles on the DC-8. Of course the Captain made sure that I got that leg. I see that the subject aircraft was a B737, but at least the 787 was fairly easy to fly without auto throttles or autopilot or flight director. Flight Manual said we should use all automation, but didn’t say must use all automation.

[@rtbrtb_dutchy4183]

I don’t think this was an emergency situation. Unless they had other problems. But just the things they mentioned, not an emergency.

[@markiemannie]

@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183they declared an emergency…

[@kevinschreiner9182]

Automation on the DC-8 was a convienience. If it worked at all. I understand RVSM and Ok, they can't continue, but is this really an Emergency?

[@davefnewell]

@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 You really don't know what you are talking about, Mr. Lear. Maybe if you spent one hour trying to fly a 737 for American Airlines you might get a sense of what these guys were dealing with. In the mean time maybe take some time out and stop posting your so called thoughts!

[@rtbrtb_dutchy4183]

@@davefnewell I’m typed on the 737. I flown with AA pilots. The ones I flew with are very good. No complaints there. But there were a few who were not good at all. The problem is, you will go into defense mode no matter what. Which is not a good way to handle certain things.

[@whynot8082]

All around pros working through the situation

[@JimWhitaker]

3:42 So Approach and Tower are going to have a slightly tense coffee break.

[@RoamingBiologist]

Gotta say, I am thankful for my instructors for always working in pattern work and visuals approaches for such cases and yeah 1000' pattern in a 737. Automation can and will go out, and having the monkey skills and understanding of thrust and airspeed is crucial. Great video of solid pilots making things work.

[@jimydoolittle3129]

Outstanding Airmanship ✈️👍👊🏻 👨‍✈️

[@ApriliaRacer14]

This 👆🏻

[@tomsmith5584]

I imagine someone in the cockpit said, "darn, we actually have to fly this thing."

[@TomPauls007]

professional and well-coordinated. Whew! Boeing - of course somethiing broke!

[@backandforthupanddow]

Impressive!

[@tjjoseph333]

Damn his was well done! Best Pan call in some time, Lets go Big D!

[@TheDustoff9]

😱Oh my, they’re gonna have to put their hands on the controls

[@beachboy0910]

They were hand flying in this incident. The airline might have a safety policy requiring a minimum amount of working automation for a flight. It sounds like they lost all automation (flight directors, autopilots etc)

[@charlesdugnolle2216]

I’ve got 20,000 hours in Boeings, I’m not sure why this is an emergency. Definitely landing overweight requires planning though.

[@joseandrescastanedabernot5417]

Because we're the next generations of pilots where we need AFDS. j/k... but I judge by *any time the pilot is in doubt, you're good to call an emergency*. cheers.

[@ceemosp]

Maybe consider this: They had lost (critical) systems without knowing the underlying reason(s) for the failures! There is no guarantee that other systems won't be joining "the club" and "go on vacation" as well, especially since the failures are in the area of fms/throttle department! I deem it a good call to preemptively declare an emergency in such a situation 😏

[@richwightman3044]

FMS isn’t related to throttle department.

[@gcorriveau6864]

Good job. Once they are over the 'shock factor' of this massive loss of the Automated Flight Control Systems (and the underlying causes - electrical issues? hydraulic issues?) they do a great job of 'good old fashion' hand flying, taking the time to get the checklists and overweight landing preps done right, and concluding with an 'uneventful' landing. I'm not sure that some folks in the comments appreciate how complex a procedure it can be to 'merely' return to land - especially with overweight issues and/or with technical failures.

[@AEMoreira81]

Or circuit breakers.

[@davefnewell]

thank you! You said it better than I. It is so easy to be an armchair quarterback when you are flying around 6 people in a crappy aircraft!

[@charlesvangelo1756]

@@davefnewell❤

[@TheButterZone]

1:15 sounded like "that works brother" lol & CC thinks "better" 4:10 keep you separated

[@markskawai]

Lots of weekend warriors in the comment section.

[@christerry1773]

That's basically what youtube comments are for.

[@paulu7751]

@@christerry1773EXACTLY!!!!

[@PercyPruneMHDOIFandBars]

This, ladies and gentlemen, is why you need PROFESSIONAL people on the flight-deck and ATC! Good job all round. I love the comment about "the tower being a pain in the butt". Clearly the controller is aware of the workload the crew are under.

[@ndub1410]

Hey tower it takes as long as it takes

[@gimpsunlimited2505]

I flew a KC135 for many years, and many years it didn’t have a operational autopilot, it wasn’t equipped autothrottles, or any other automation, altitude alerter, those kind of things……and it had 4 engines. and had 10 fuel tanks, associated valves and pumps, no flight engineer.

[@JohnSmith-zi9or]

Yeah isn't it sad that we're now declaring emergencies for no autopilots, auto throttles and flight directors?

[@RobertoHernandez-rq5bf]

Yes. Nowadays, just hand flying a plane is considered an amazing feat. That's why, after being a commercial pilot for more than forty years, I'm afraid of flying 😂😂

[@sbreheny]

@@JohnSmith-zi9orThe emergency is not because of the lack of automation - it is because the reason for the malfunction is unknown and could indicate a more general system failure or even a fire somewhere.

[@beerbrewer7372]

WX permitting both FD's can be placed on MEL, auto throttle can be placed on MEL, both autopilots can *not* be put on MEL. When you rely so heavily on automation (flight directors, auto throttle, LNAV, VNAV...) when you lose it and you declare an emergency maybe your basic piloting skills are not that good.

[@repatch43]

I don't know, but I always forget the 737s can't dump fuel. Both ATC and the pilots were absolutely stellar in this one.

[@herceg6772]

I watched the Downfall of Boeing and John Barnett was in it. I think he was a decent man wanting to rectify the issues. Wanted the best for Boeing. He was not suicidal.

[@JahongirHaitov]

They are emergency, hand flying, and they never failed once to repeat every freq, rw assignment, and callsign. Should deliver intracompany masterclasses (or one-on-one training to a certain captain).

[@upner4169]

emergency is probably their airline procedure if landing overweight, not because of loss of automation. call probably from their airline, ie cheaper for overweight inspection rather time and fuel spent to land as normal.

[@JahongirHaitov]

​@@upner4169 my comment was not about emergency being called for but communication diligence

[@Klink330]

Kudos to the crew in terms of situational awareness, decision making, communications and professionalism. The only question I have of any AA B737 pilots is why this would justify a declaration of emergency? Loss of automation at lower altitudes, while a huge increase in workload, is off and by itself hardly the stuff of danger to life or the aircraft (at least, it shouldn’t be). We, as trained, experienced pilots of transport category jets, should be able to easily fly the aircraft manually for the time needed to return to departure airport. Would the emergency declaration have been due to a more serious ‘root cause’ failure - one that resulted in all automation failing?

[@robd2184]

That’s what I’m thinking . The underlying cause could be the reason for the mayday , certainly not the loss of automation. Also same for overweight landing - if I’m raw data I’d rather land within weights I’ve done before .

[@glennmcgurrin8397]

Even not knowing the root cause, perhaps especially not knowing the root cause, if a whole bunch of the planes computer systems went down at once, including the redundant units such I'd certainly feel safer back on the ground to make sure it isn't a bad sensor going to truly screw things up (if you are curious for examples, look at the many issues bad aoa or angle of attack sensors [hint, the max crashes are just a small part of the problems these have caused] have caused as well as clogged pitot [sp?] tubes) some other failure that would progress and get worse the longer you stayed in the air, get it down safe and get it checked out.

[@richwightman3044]

How is the loss of AP and AT an emergency?

[@vedymin1]

I wonder if some cb's popped on them...to loose even fd's like that ? Have you tried turning it off and on again x) ?

[@j700jam4]

Carl-alt-Del

[@Aloha_Alan]

That's usually the fix for an Airbus... ;)

[@stephaniemcgillivray6383]

Not an aviation pro, but I'm struck by the lack of of information sharing during ATC/approach handoffs, especially in an emergency situation. One said they shared the plan with the next one, but the next one asked about a key part of the plan again, seemingly without that info. They were asked about anount of fuel and landing heavy about 5x. They get kudos for patience. I understand it's dangerous so controllers want to be sure and prepared, but double checking should be enough. If those pilots had been busier or had less time to work with, such an omission could be critical. Seems we need a better integrated electronic information flow from controller to controller, at least for emergencies, but even better for all aircraft.

[@willemhaifetz-chen1588]

All this will be digitized at some point - no talking.

[@Jelliott503]

I would call this a PAN PAN over an emergency, but there could be some other unknown factors not mentioned here on top of just having to manually fly the airplane. But manual flight alone I wouldn’t say rises to the level of an emergency (MAYDAY).

[@jcl410]

In the USA declaring an "emergency" covers both PanPan and Mayday situations.... In this, if nothing else, an over weight landing is an emergency (due to possible hot brakes)

[@RobertoHernandez-rq5bf]

So, they had to hand fly the plane and yet survived? Amazing!!! 😂😂😂

[@christerry1773]

How is it possible to lose all of those? Both flight guidance computers failed, multiple ADIRU's failed..?

[@bayernrekordmeister344]

Pitch + Power = Performance. ROFL

[@blusheep2]

In all honesty, that doesn't work all that great in a large airplane like that. Generally its true but the weights can very so much that the performance is much harder to predict. You can't just set a pitch and know you will get a certain speed unless you've done a massive amount of testing at different weights and remember it all. Pilots in the airlines don't get to fly their planes like that.

[@farmiscool1992]

If it is a Boeing, I ain't Goeing.

[@markusanderson1517]

... have to fly it like a Cessna, again.

[@pk7549]

Level at 5000ish

[@jostmathe]

Was it impossible to continue the flight in manually flying the plane ?? Just a thought

[@N1120A]

Not if they needed to be in RVSM airspace for fuel purposes.

[@jostmathe]

@@N1120A oh noted

[@jgrazzi]

Are we just getting better at covering these or are there a lot more aircraft issues going on lately?

[@marcmcreynolds2827]

There are a lot more aircraft in the air from one decade to the next. So even though fatality rate for example is lower by a factor of ten than when I started in the business c. 1980, the total numbers for incidents are going to edge higher. Even in the 1980s though, there were plenty of incidents. I used to read a weekly summary of them compiled by the FAA, and generally none made even the local news.

[@N1120A]

More commercial aircraft flying than ever and better coverage than ever.

[@reynirheidbergstefansson2343]

Lost all automation? Does that mean the coffee maker is also inop?

[@eudaldguell3004]

737 máx?

[@jwest0402]

I’d hardly call this an emergency, maybe more of a pan pan

[@Rama41]

I never had a problem like that when I was flying the C-47.

[@paulu7751]

Yeah you’re just 100x more likely to have a cfit event or engine fire 🙄🙄🙄

[@SYDAirlineEnthusiast]

Big whoop. I have flown a 737 without any autopilot and auto throttle on a full-length flight. Also, I don’t really use flight directors cause I don’t need them.

[@backandforthupanddow]

I’m sure you did Captain Microsoft flight sim.

[@robd2184]

You flew that around your mom’s basement ? Good job

[@esolat]

Question for the group - what is the cause of the failure of all automation? is it computer failure? mechanical?

[@blusheep2]

Almost certainly a computer.

[@charlesdugnolle2216]

You better practice hand flying and shooting instrument approaches with no automation. Being a new generation does not excuse you from basic stick and rudder skills. My first airline job was flying Metroliners in the Midwest shooting g multiple approaches a day. We had no autopilot or f/d’s I retired from a major airline flying the 767. I had flew all the to cruise , level out before engaging the autopilot. Visual approach’s were all hand flown. If you were IMC and lost all automation what would you do? You can declare emergencies all day, but in the end, you have to fly the plane. Good luck and be ssfe

[@blusheep2]

Then you were breaking the law because you must be on automation in RVSM airspace.

[@richwightman3044]

RVSM didn’t exist back then, Ace.

[@blusheep2]

@@richwightman3044 Oh really? You must be psychic because I don't see a time stamp on this guys experience. RVSM was implemented in 1997. Both Metroliners and 767s have been in heavy use after 1997.

[@richwightman3044]

@@blusheep2You should have done a little more investigating that a quick Wikipedia search. RVSM wasn’t implemented over the US until 2005. Regardless of the date, it’s not “illegal” to hand fly in RVSM. A working autopilot is one of the requirements to be in RVSM, but nowhere does it say it must be turned on. While that’s obviously the intent, it’s not illegal. I am not psychic, but anyone with the slightest bit of common sense could tell from the old timer’s post that he likely retired before or near the time that RVSM was in place over the US.

[@blusheep2]

@@richwightman3044 Yeah, your right. I was looking at a date for the implementation of it in the North Atlantic. Your not a psychic but you are an !@#. You could have just corrected me instead of condescended to me. That being said... Appendix 4 of AC 91-85, e. An automatic altitude-control system should be operative and engaged during level cruise, except when circumstances such as the need to retrim the aircraft or turbulence require disengagement. In any event, adherence to cruise altitude should be done by reference to one of the two primary altimeters; So it appears that climbing to altitude in RVSM isn't illegal but it is expected to be engaged at altitude. Thought the man sounds like hes retired that doesn't mean he flew in the 70s either.

[@jimmcclelland5754]

How horrible...the pilots actually had to fly the aircraft

[@johnmahoney2218]

This is a comment by someone who has absolutely no idea of the knowledge, skill, situationally awareness, and competence it takes to accomplish such a feat. Probably by a guy who backs out of his driveway and runs over his own trash can, where appropriately his comment belongs. Before he makes himself look even more foolish barking back at my comment I was a Navy pilot for 24 years and airline captain for 19 years. This crew is as professional as it gets. Just getting tired of hearing from dumb asses. I’m sure he has never landed a high performance aircraft on a naval ship at sea.

[@user-de5hb7jp6u]

My Telsa's battery just quit

[@tomtke7351]

Most of the comments herein are snarky.

[@albondinga6479]

Can they just auto code souls on board and fuel remaining into transponder

[@N1120A]

No

[@IrishSchaller]

Don't aircraft dump fuel anymore?

[@N1120A]

737s have never dumped fuel.

[@robd2184]

Don’t think a 737 can

[@blusheep2]

The A320 family can't.

[@rudiklein]

I know, any airplane manufacturer can have problems with their product, but I'll fly Airbus next time.

[@A.J.1656]

They belly-flop into the ocean in icing conditions. Probably best to stay home.

[@EuropeanRailfanAlt]

Fly with Embraer, one of their planes survived out-of-control high-G maneuvers

[@A.J.1656]

@@EuropeanRailfanAlt Plus no middle seat. 😁

[@rabartels]

I still wonder why they don't declare a mayday mayday mayday or pan.pan pan first😅

[@blusheep2]

Declaring "mayday" is just declaring an emergency. "Mayday" is really just used to get someone's attention.

[@Factory400]

The pilots had to revert to being pilots.

[@rael5469]

"We've just lost all automation as far as flight directors and autothrottle, autopilot, all that." 1st pilot looks at the other pilot: "Hey Sid, this column and wheel ......is that how we get back on the ground?" Other pilot says: "I think so. Better declare an emergency just in case it's not."

[@Flies2FLL]

At a lot of modern flight schools the students do their initial training in aircraft like the Diamond Katana, with full glass cockpits. The problem with this is that they become completely used to those glass screens and lose the ability to fly by stick and rudder. They have found that pilots in the airline industry are getting this way due to the huge emphasis to use the automation, which saves large amounts of fuel and thus.....Money. Thus, in the simulators these days when you first sit down, in order to "warm you up" and get you used to the sim, they cover the instruments and only give you an altimeter and an airspeed indicator and make you fly standard traffic patterns. I have no trouble with this since I spent four years teaching students how to fly at a large flight school in Vero Beach. The people who have trouble with this are the former military pilots who have moved over to the airlines and have gotten too used to glass. There you are, five miles from the touchdown zone on final, and the instructor stops the box and asks you "How do you look? Do you think you are on glideslope?" I usually nail it. I mean, all I do is make it look right. As to flying around, there is a placard on the "A" pillar in the cockpit that tells you what pitch attitude and power setting to use when clean and with gear and flaps down, so anyone who has their act together should be able to just go and land and write up the airplane. Really, the shitty part of something like this is that most airlines are going to find you another airplane and your duty day just got a whole lot longer.... Great video!

[@Look_What_You_Did]

You don't fly. Certainly not rated for these aircraft.

[@Flies2FLL]

@@Look_What_You_Did Well, you better tell that to my System Chief Pilot right away....

[@A.J.1656]

What does any of that long winded comment have to do with the video?

[@christerry1773]

When you learn anything about how planes fly, then make your dumb comments.

[@rtbrtb_dutchy4183]

@@Look_What_You_DidI am. And he is correct. It’s sad how these pilots had to declare an emergency over this.

[@Tianton1]

stab trim cut out switches in standby maybe?

[@rael5469]

That's a good question. It would definitely cut out autopilot control of the stab.

[@saxmanb777]

No because they would’ve noticed no electric trim before takeoff. Plus that doesn’t connect to the automation anyway.

[@joaopedrosantoro58]

Wouldn’t affect A/T and FDs

[@rael5469]

@@saxmanb777 I think it happened after takeoff.

[@rael5469]

@@joaopedrosantoro58 Maybe they lost an electrical bus. I'm trying to think what all those have in common. I know that plane doesn't act right when the battery switch is off......or if the standby power switch is off.

[@Ramberriaa]

Why is it an emergency? I dont get it!!! ... its just back to basics... fly that airplane... not even the overweight landing is an emergency... it could lead to one for sure but it is not.

[@blusheep2]

I lost all automation once and we flew for 2 hours that way. We never declared an emergency.

[@DisandDat-ht5os]

So if I heard this correctly, the tower could give a hoot about AA1868? Sounds like a scene from the new Airplane III movie, "the boys in the Tower would like a word with the boys in Approach". Sure this isn't earth shattering but for this to get out to the flying public, many of which we know force themselves to fly, isn't great. Just too petty and somewhat unprofessional to hear during a declared emer.

[@TravelFilming]

‘We lost automation’ Did the pilots check for any missing door plugs before take off?

[@mikederucki]

Dumb question perhaps but why can’t they just hand fly?

[@spencerlondon9561]

I'm guessing SOP. Airline aircraft are *usually* allowed to be dispatched without an autopilot, but would require prior authorization since operation in RVSM airspace normally requires autopilot. Though to your point, if it isn't SOP to immediately declare under the circumstances, it does feel a little reactionary; they probably could have leveled off, communicated with company and maybe coordinated an en-route altitude outside of RVSM, fuel permitting (which it probably wasn't anyway). Either way, it's impossible to know the exact situation from this video, and the pilots almost definitely made the right decision immediately coming back.

[@MeerkatADV]

Long flight

[@ImpactWench]

This is different from dispatching the plane with an INOP autopilot that has been checked and verified by a certified mechanic. The plane just broke while in flight. Who's to say what caused it? What are the chances the same cause could break it even more in five-four-three... Plus, 99% likely their flight plan goes through airspace where an autopilot is mandatory. Going without would take prep and negotiation... while the plane continues to fly with something unidentified wrong with it. Landing in this situation is why aviation is as safe as it is.

[@thomasaltruda]

Because there’s something wrong with the airplane.. could just be a simple thing, could be a fire in the avionics bay.. you don’t know, and you don’t continue a flight with an issue like this. That wouldn’t be fair to the lives that are relying on the pilots to make the safest action.

[@RLTtizME]

Regs silly. 😊

[@GTS71840]

Fly the 737 is an emergency regardless of the automation.

[@AsNetwork]

Am 737 driver. Can confirm

[@chafouaube985]

What a surprise: again another boeing....

[@watty9297]

Amazing. There used to be a time we'd do a whole flight without the automatics, just for the practice.

[@Kane12653]

now it's a full blown emergency if you have to hand fly ... just kidding, i get why they did it, see my other comment here.

[@A.J.1656]

When the Beatles topped the charts and Elvis was driving the teenage girls wild with the shaking of the hips. lol

[@KevinSun242]

Which would be by your choice, not by an unknown and undiagnosed sudden failure.

[@RobertoHernandez-rq5bf]

​@@KevinSun242returning to the airport was the right thing to do, but hand flying a plane over an airport circuit is not an extraordinary feat.

[@robd2184]

Maybe in 1960, but not in modern rVSM airspace

[@paulsunderland3292]

We have lost all aviator skill. Fly all over the country with a compass, vor, and radio

[@saxmanb777]

We don’t do that in airline world.

[@gopack42]

Im sure eventually we will have ATC asking for souls in pounds and time. Theyre running out of questions to ask during an emergency.

[@buckhorncortez]

Maybe everyone should check with you. How about a phone number for that...?

[@garystewart3110]

The rescue crews need to know how much of fuel that could burn, and how many living people to look for, the plane could have a cargo of cadavers for example. It's a standard question asked by procedures in this situation

[@oreoten8283]

Stupid comment.

[@j700jam4]

They also ask for fuel in case of holding and/or diversion

[@jfcoggins]

Lost all automation....what a serious event!

[@PropsNJets]

It’s a legitimate consideration when you can’t operate in RVSM altitudes and you don’t have the fuel to use lower

[@jfcoggins]

@@PropsNJets In the realm of actual emergencies, it’s not one. The FOs initial panic on the radio was comical.

[@PropsNJets]

@@jfcoggins oh that I can agree with; I’m curious what leg they were on etc too. Never fun to lose something you expect to work but outside the overweight landing I don’t know that I’d consider it a true emergency either

[@RLTtizME]

@@PropsNJets They must land at the earliest opportunity.

[@thomasaltruda]

@@PropsNJetsunless the loss of automation was because the leaking code pot or Lav was draining water into the E&E bay, shorting out the electrical boxes.. why try to troubleshoot or compensate when you can bring your broken plane right back and safely land it?

[@RickTheClipper]

A day without bad Boeing news is a lost day. May be they forgot to reset the clock after 20 days

[@shawnerz98]

Pilot: "Yeah, I've got 10 thousand, two hundred seconds of fuel." Twr: "WTF?" It's funny to joke about it now. But usually, the pilot responds with the pounds of fuel. Surprised to hear minutes of fuel remaining. 😊

[@rtbrtb_dutchy4183]

They want pounds. Time doesn’t tell the ground crews what they have to deal with in case of a mishap.

[@JohnSmith-zi9or]

@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 The AIM, although not regulatory, directs pilots to report the fuel in TIME and it is for the controllers and the pilots to know how much time you have to work the emergency. The say fuel in pounds crap is a new invention from the fire brigade to further have the controllers bother the flight deck while they're making critical decisions while running checklists.

[@rtbrtb_dutchy4183]

@@JohnSmith-zi9or so, when an airplane declares and emergency and says they need to return and land immediately, what is the TIME they need for? They are not going to say: well, our airplane has an issue and we should land immediately, but hey, we got the fuel, so let’s leave it in the air for now. 🙄 That makes no sense, does it?

[@FlyNAA]

They answered in minutes based on a rough rate of 6K pounds per hour, which lets you treat the fuel display (in thousands of pounds) as minutes in tens. You can spit out a super easy and quick number this way.

[@JohnSmith-zi9or]

@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 "so, when an airplane declares and emergency and says they need to return and land immediately, what is the TIME they need for? They are not going to say: well, our airplane has an issue and we should land immediately, but hey, we got the fuel, so let’s leave it in the air for now. That makes no sense, does it?" Yes, it makes sense. Your premise does not. As I said, the fuel in time gives ATC and the pilots the ultimate maximum time they have to get the airplane back on the ground. I'm not doing it for you, research the number of emergency aircraft that crashed while handling an emergency and ran out of fuel. Reference the videos on here where an airfield had two simultaneous emergency aircraft. Only one can land at a time if there's only one usable runway. Reference the videos on here where the pilots delay landing to "talk to company" blah blah blah. Let me flip the argument on you. Does the fire brigade dispatch fewer fire trucks if the aircraft has less fuel. No they don't. Or at least I don't think they do. Bottom line, we are trained to and instructed via the FAA's aeronautical information manual to give the fuel in TIME. End of story. Not arguing with a non ATPL rated pilot. Thanks, have a good day.

[@silentA221]

I'm sure I'm not the only aeroplane Enthusiast, who has noticed the complete and utter catastrophies happening with these planes since the pandemic And a loss of all those workers due to covid restrictions

[@marcmcreynolds2827]

No, you just watch too many KZbin videos. Things which would never have made it into the news go front & center. A wheel with a crack in it; a hydraulic line that lets go; a pilot who skids the nose gear. All of that and more goes on all of the time, and has since before the jet age began . It's like after the DC-10 Chicago crash, when for a while afterwards seemingly every DC-10 hiccup got its moment on the evening news. Speaking of a loss of workers, as in the death kind of loss, there was an interesting chart published today covering the whole four years of the pandemic in the USA, with cumulative deaths/100k for all the counties plotted over time and sorted by red/blue (percentage of votes that Trump got in that county in 2020). The blue line moves steadily upward (these are after all cumulative numbers), but nothing like the red line. Then the vaccines became available, as marked on the chart, and after that the blue line moderates while the red line soars: Stupid people doing what stupid people do, but unfortunately more likely than not killing a nurse or someone's grandma rather than themselves.

[@RobertoHernandez-rq5bf]

Or to woke DEI hiring policies?

[@howardthompson4844]

Budlightboeing

[@Napzterorg]

Boeing on his Prime

[@davecrupel2817]

Never thought id see the day a boeing pilot returns cause of autopilot failure. :P

[@wtfudc]

It happens a lot more than you think. There are many legal and performance restrictions for autopilot failure.

[@charlesfaure1189]

Safety is such a bother.

[@christerry1773]

FAA regulations require autopilot at high altitude. Besides, are you expecting them to seriously fly all the way to Pittsburg manually?

[@rtbrtb_dutchy4183]

@@christerry1773no, I expect them to fly at a lower altitude and land somewhere closer to Pittsburgh at a normal landing weight without declaring an emergency.

[@christerry1773]

@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 Lol ok wow. So you really don’t know much about aviation then. Especially commercial swept back wings.

[@timduggan1461]

What??? No "automation"? Fly the damn airplane!!!!

[@saxmanb777]

They hand flew to land in DFW genius.

[@christerry1773]

Fly it to where?

[@briansmyla8696]

Um, what happened to hand flying the aircraft? Are the pilots not qualified for a cross country flight without automation?

[@RLTtizME]

Think before you post. Automation (autopilot and connected components) are REQUIRED to operate a commercial airliner BY THE FAA. THEY MUST BE OPERATIONAL.

[@Freezorgium]

Properly used automation is great for safety, and this includes of course the reduced workload for the pilots that allows them to focus on other tasks. This is why the FAA requires it for airlines.

[@seanoswa1829]

@@RLTtizME There was no mention of flight instrument failure. In other words, Hoss, this and all your other similar replies are absolutely WRONG! The MEL allows for automation, as described in the declaration after takeoff, to be "INOP", but with consequences. As another mentioned, the aircraft is restricted from flight into RVSM with autopilot not working; depending on destination weather and your approach may be restricted; there is no requirement for autothrottles to be working, again, other operational restrictions (approach) may apply.

[@A.J.1656]

​@@seanoswa1829 Systems or components failing or malfunctioning during the flight aren't MEL'd automatically by some act of God. MEL's must be written up signed off by maintenance or by the flight crew under the direction of maintenance, listed on the release, planned for by dispatch, reviewed by the crew and operationally briefed. Pilots don't just announce "MEL" and call it good. That's not how it works. lol

[@cdesha]

@@RLTtizMEno they don’t

[@markgriz]

Has not been a very good year for Boeing

[@mita6010]

Does Boeing have to ground EVERY plane in its fleet! 😵‍💫

[@JohnSmith-zi9or]

Today an A333 had a hydraulic issue. And an A320 had a fumes event. Yesterday an A388 hit turbulence and injured 28. An A359 had flight control problems. An A321 had a cargo door indication problem. The day before that an A320 had engine oil problems. An A319 had "burnt water" ... IDK what that is. And an A322 rejected takeoff after a birdstrike. I could go on ... get the point?

[@mita6010]

@@JohnSmith-zi9or Yikes, how about Embraer 🫤.

[@carlosmuller5431]

Mita6010 Embraers are good to go.

[@JohnSmith-zi9or]

@@carlosmuller5431 All airplanes have issues.

[@JohnSmith-zi9or]

@@mita6010 All airplanes have issues.

[@joelvarzea]

Very strange what’s happening in the air last days …it seems this aircraft’s have been hacked

[@cdesha]

No lol

[@saxmanb777]

lol. These events are completely normal.

[@JohnSmith-zi9or]

Ops normal.

[@arashkamangir331]

yet another boeing emergency...

[@christerry1773]

and? And airbus had a hydraulic failure at LAX.

[@arashkamangir331]

@@christerry1773 Boeing has had something like 6 serious incidents this month alone

[@arashkamangir331]

@@christerry1773 AND a boeing whistleblower was just found dead.. “suicide”

[@christerry1773]

@@arashkamangir331 there was an engine failure on viva like two moths ago. Another one on approach to Pheonix, and a JetBlue in NY. Several months ago there was a United Airbus with a hydraulic failure. So it’s not a Boeing thing, and neither make these planes unsafe. It’s just overhype

[@JohnSmith-zi9or]

Today an A333 had a hydraulic issue. And an A320 had a fumes event. Yesterday an A388 hit turbulence and injured 28. An A359 had flight control problems. An A321 had a cargo door indication problem. The day before that an A320 had engine oil problems. An A319 had "burnt water" ... IDK what that is. And an A322 rejected takeoff after a birdstrike. I could go on ... get the point?

[@Geoff69420]

Of course it's a Boeing.

[@RLTtizME]

Of course you would say that.

[@christerry1773]

of course another expert who knows nothing about aviation.

[@j700jam4]

Or an Airbus purchased from Wish

[@JohnSmith-zi9or]

Today an A333 had a hydraulic issue. And an A320 had a fumes event. Yesterday an A388 hit turbulence and injured 28. An A359 had flight control problems. An A321 had a cargo door indication problem. The day before that an A320 had engine oil problems. An A319 had "burnt water" ... IDK what that is. And an A322 rejected takeoff after a birdstrike. I could go on ... get the point?

[@SYDAirlineEnthusiast]

Boeings are way easier to fly than that stupid fly by wire bull crap airbuses have.

[@C-141B_FE]

They had to HAND FLY the AIRPLANE OMG WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO... LOL.

[@Jacobyoutube-oo7uq]

They did not know the cause. Good to know the pilots were not willing to bet 170 lives that there would not be any more cascading failures.

[@C-141B_FE]

​@@Jacobyoutube-oo7uqSettle down, Beavis.

[@saxmanb777]

Yeah, they hand flew to the landing. Got a new plane and left again.

[@blake9908]

Autopilot is simply a nice feature, not a requirement for safety unless you are in RVSM airspace. If you have to have an autopilot to be safe, I wouldn't get in a plane with you.

[@5HoH5520]

I’m really making an effort to understand your comment. So if I engage AP to assist in managing my workload it serves as a tool regarding flight deck management so as a by-product it adds to flight safety. What F are you talking about?

[@SYDAirlineEnthusiast]

Crj pilots are making fun of those 737 pilot as they fly without auto throttles on all flights.

[@v1rotate391]

Uhm.. so they had to fly a plane? 🙄 🤡

[@christerry1773]

Learn how flying commercial aircraft works then comment.

[@v1rotate391]

@@christerry1773 14,000 hours and 11,000 in large turbojets and transport category aircraft. Learn how to fly a plane and not program an FMC and autopilot.

[@qtpie2030]

@@v1rotate391 Looks like you don't fly in RVSM airspace.

[@northmaineguy5896]

Wow, so you've reduced to flying with just the "steam gauges" the rest of us used successfully for years before you grace the scene? Lazy much?

[@rtbrtb_dutchy4183]

Right. I guess they couldn’t fly the 737-200 that didn’t have any of this stuff working too well.

[@ericschreiber6214]

Really? No autopilot? Awe what a joke do these pilots know that back in the day REAL PILOTS flew all the flights by hand haha what joke ooh no we have to do something now…🤦🏼‍♂️

[@saxmanb777]

Can't fly in RVSM airspace without the AP. Flying lower would use way more fuel. They hand flew back. AP is a tool to reduce work load. I'd return too. No reason to deal with that all the way to the destination.

[@keno7800]

Declare an emergency when you lost automation? Why is that an emergency? Dontcha know how to stick and rudder fly that birdie?

[@A.J.1656]

Sorry, i didn't watch the whole thing, did they end up crashing it or something?

[@saxmanb777]

Losing all automation is an emergency in my book too, and I fly the same plane.

[@christerry1773]

learn about jet propelled aviation before making dumb comments.

[@elleeg]

The emergency is the overweight landing situation

[@rtbrtb_dutchy4183]

@@saxmanb777I see your responses. You shouldn’t fly if you believe that is an emergency. I used to fly the 73, I would never consider this anywhere near an emergency. Holy cow man. I used to fly Lear 25s without a flight director (never worked), without auto throttles (not installed) and pretty frequently, without a working autopilot at…..get this…FL450. Learn how to fly your airplane. You seem to not know.

[@Kane12653]

how can this be a serious threat to the life of all the passengers, which is when MAYDAY/emergency should be used? the pilots should be able to fly without automation. it should be more of a "we are going back as a precaution" but definitely not an emergency.

[@SpaceGeek321]

MAYDAY might be part of a checklist, or a precaution with the suspicion the plane might lose further avionics

[@soccerguy2433]

okay. if they don't use MAYDAY they don't necessarily get priority. they could be sent to holding, sequenced in instead of directly/sequenced 1st, in theory. "Emergency" doesn't necessarily mean life-threating. What caused the problem? Could it get worse? It also communicates to the controllers that they have an issue that's potentially a risk to other aircraft and/or they'll need special handling (vectors, etc). You'd probably also complain if they didn't declare an emergency and it got worse.

[@RLTtizME]

It is against FAA regs for a commercial carrier.

[@davidisaacson9543]

Loss of automation is not an emergency just back to stick and rudder

[@wtfudc]

Keep in mind that it is a dynamic situation, meaning it could get worse in any seconds. We simply don’t know the severity of the situation inside the flight deck.