Western Armenian & Eastern Armenian - Pronunciation Differences

(Արեւելահայերենով) Արեւելահայերեն, Արեւմտահայերեն՝ հնչյունների, ձայների տարբերությունները` • Արեւելահայերեն, Արեւմտ...
(Արեւմտահայերէնով) Արեւմտահայերէն, Արեւելահայերէն՝ հնչիւններու, ձայներու տարբերութիւնները՝ • Արեւմտահայերէն, Արեւել...
Regular differences in pronunciation between Western Armenian and Eastern Armenian
Disclaimer, based on feedback: All major points and basic information are covered, but some exceptions and other nuances also exist.
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Hello, and thank you for watching this video on the regular differences in pronunciation between Western Armenian and Eastern Armenian.
The Armenian language has one, unique alphabet, as you can see.
But it has two formal, literary versions: Eastern Armenian and Western Armenian.
Although, for most educated Armenians, each is mutually-intelligible with the other, there certainly are differences in vocabulary (in words), grammar, and even in orthography, due to Soviet-era spelling reforms.
But the most immediate difference is in sounds -- the pronunciation of letters.
Let's take up those letters that make up those differences.
It boils down to these five sets of three letters.
Marking them under a column each, a linguist would say that, in Eastern Armenian pronunciation, the sounds of the letters under Column I are voiceless, under Column II are aspirated -- that is, they have a light "huh" breathing sound added to them, and that Column III's letters are voiced, with a deeper or rougher sound. You'll see what I mean in just a moment.
So, in Eastern Armenian, that first letter is pronounced [p], then [ph], and [b]. [p]-[ph]-[b]. Do you hear the pattern?
Similarly, the next rows of letters are pronounced [k], [kh], [g]
[t], [th], [d]
[ts], [tsh], [dz]
[ch], [chh], [j]
So much for Eastern Armenian pronunciation.
In Western Armenian, though, the pattern is different. Column I is what linguists would call voiced, Column II is aspirated, and Column III is also aspirated.
So we have [b], [ph], [ph] in Western Armenian,
Then, [g], [kh], [kh]
[d], [th], [th]
[dz], [tsh], [tsh]
[j], [chh], [chh]
And that was Western Armenian pronunciation.
Now, what are the differences?
Well, in Eastern Armenian, each of these fifteen letters have distinct sounds. But, in Western Armenian, the sounds for Column II match with Column III exactly, as we just saw.
That means that there are five pairs of letters in Western Armenian that have the exact same sound. Not so in Eastern Armenian.
Also note that the Eastern Armenian sounds for Column III match the Western Armenian sounds for Column I.
So, Eastern Armenian [b] -- Western Armenian [b]
Eastern Armenian [g] -- Western Armenian [g]
[d] in Eastern -- [d] in Western
[dz] in Eastern -- [dz] in Western
Eastern [j] -- Western [j]
Confusing, I know. Thankfully, though, the sounds for letters under Column II match perfectly in Western and Eastern Armenian -- [ph], [kh], [th], [tsh], [chh].
However, the Eastern Armenian sounds for Column I do not exist at all in Western Armenian. Many Western Armenian speakers have trouble just hearing the sounds [p], [k], [t], [ts], [ch].
And that's these five sets of three letters.
Additionally, these two letters, they are both rolled Rs, pronounced the same in Western Armenian, as [r]. The letter on the left, though, is rolled more in Eastern Armenian, so it would be [rr] and [r].
There are some consequences to these differences. Here are a couple of them.
Knowing how to spell becomes important in Western Armenian. The letters of the Armenian language have names, which I did not mention. You have to know those names in order to know how to spell in Western Armenian. For Eastern Armenian speakers, though, simply saying the words is almost always good enough to spell correctly.
Transliteration can be inconsistent. Spelling Armenian words in other languages, using other letters, such as the Latin alphabet in English, can be tricky.
Let's take this name in Armenian. Or, better example, its diminutive or short form.
If that were your name, would you write it in English as "Bedig" or as "Petik"?
I guess it depends on where you come from, or perhaps on where you're going.
Wherever you call home, East or West, wherever you end up, North or South -- happy Armenian pronunciation!
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Happy to receive feedback through naregseferian.c...

[@PeopleOfArarat]

We speak proper Western Armenian in my family, in Boston out of formally college educated 1915 Constantinople. Ռ ռ is a "hard" burred or rolled R sound, and Ր ր is a flat R sound, as in "right". The two letters are not pronounced identically in proper Western Armenian at all, in my experience (which goes back at least to my great grandparents, as they're the ones who taught us). Most Western Armenian speakers I know are the same. You should look into this. Thank you very much for your video, Nareg. :)

[@kho9118]

I agree. Actually i find that the ethiopian armenians are a great reference for western armenian. I also believe that there is a subtle distinction in all the western armenian letters but to who learn western armenian informally we may blur the թդ հյ ջչ ձց etc. The formally educated don't seem to do that with their western armenian (to my ear).

[@maelystyn1055]

Depends on where your family is from exactly (what region of Turkey or what country) your family is from, like some English speakers pronounce which and witch differently depending on where they're from

[@ziziqar]

Հիանալի էր, շնորհակալութիւն․ յատկապէս դուր եկաւ տառերի դասակարգումը, որը տարբերութիւնների ուսումնասիրումը շատ աւելի հեշտ է դարձնում։ Այսօր նոր բան սովորեցի։ Միակ բանը, որ կուզէի յաւելել այն է, որ արևելահայերէնի և արևմտահայերէնի տարբերութիւնը զատ է ուղղագրութիւնների տարբերութիւնից, այսինքն կայ արևելահայերէն, որ գրւում է դասական ուղղագրութեամբ (օր․՝ պարսկահայերի մօտ) և կայ նոր ուղղագրութեամբ գրւած արևմտահայերէն գրականութիւն (օր․՝ «Բաց կապոյտ ծաղիկներ» և այլ արևմտահայերէն գրականութեան նոր ուղղագրութեան փոխադարձումը)։

[@zabelconnor]

What a great system for learning you have come up with!

[@marz6823]

Thank you for the simple and clear explanation!

[@VikenKiledjian]

This is really a great video explaining the differences and I am so happy I found this. I've been wondering how many people would agree with me that Western Armenian should start teaching the correct pronunciation for the letters which we have lost for around 1000 years. I remember first going to Armenian in the 90's and finding out to my shock that բ should actually be B and not a strong p. And what's more that պ should be a sound I had never heard of like between p and B which English doesn't have but Russian has. At first I though it was just a Russian influence issue and didn't pay much thought to it but as I studied and read on the issue and also asked UCLA professor of Armenian, he did corroborate the fact that Western Armenian has lost those "middle" sounding letters for some reason and also the strong rolling R sound, ռ. One of my theories to keep Western Armenian more relevant and vibrant is to bring it more in line with Eastern Armenian and a key to that is to bring back the correct pronunciation of the letter to make the languages more mutually intelligible and a free flowing communication. Another topic is the spelling issue but for now, I will focus on just the pronunciation. Fixing this issue will go a long way to connect the two dialects and help the people speaking both dialects to communicate without as much obstacles and also it will have a side benefit that speakers of Western Armenian will be able to spell words more easily if they already pronounce them correctly. For example if some says Parev in Western Armenian, you have the teach the kids to spell it with the strong P sound (բ) vs the soft P sound (փ). However, if speakers new that it was really Barev, they would have no reason to mistake the spelling and will know that it is բ. Also words such as Gamurj, Kakat, etc will be pronounced the same way between the dialects and when they write it in English, they will have a uniform way of transcribing them. Gamurj uses the letter that is actually between k and G and which Western Armenian has lost and it is the letter կ. Many many examples can be given to compare and contrast the two dialects but it is obvious that Western Armenian has definitely lost sounds and made double letters stand for the same sound for no good reason. Within 1 or 2 generation, the mistake can easily be corrected (just like the writing way of Armenian was changed in 1920 to the modern way in Armenia). Young generation learn quickly once they are told of the correct way and as more Armenians travel to armenia and interaction becomes strong, this will go a long way to give Western Armenian more vibrancy and modernity and connect with the Mother Land. You have to approach this topic with an open mind because I know when it comes to language and culture, people are entrenched in their ways and language teachers are very very reluctant to change, specially if it sounds like we are saying one dialect is better than the other, which is far from what I am saying. What do others of you think of this??

[@ianthompson9201]

Nice clear presentation. Thanks.

[@れもん-d1x]

知っておいて良かったです!Thank you so much!✨

[@menuria]

You have forgotten to mention that Western Armenian has two sounds not existing in Eastern Armenian: իւ and էօ

[@raffiboy1234]

western is easier

[@raffiboy1234]

Avatar Jester well western is simpler, the way u pronounce it, u write it.

[@kho9118]

I am a western speaker. i have to agree that caucasian armenian is the formally simplified form although the pronunciation is harder for non caucasian armenian speakers. most in the diaspora speak արեվմտյան հայերեն so eastern is harder to pronounce and the words are longer. western might be harder to conjugate verbs bc there are more forms to learn (similar to spanish). western armenian has an easier flow

[@kho9118]

Also i believe that the reform of caucasian armenian was done by lazarian school before the 1920s. maybe the date1920s is of when the first independent state of armenian formally adopts caucasian armenian as their national language. the historical populations that spoke western armenian were killed/displaced in genocide during the turkish expulsion of christians. western armenian went from majority to almost extinct. i can understand both dialects but in honor of those victims of genocide i choose to strengthen and expand my արեվմտյան հայերեն

[@mikekahvegian7625]

Hayeren khosetsek

[@amalek.92]

⁠Same with Mandarin and Cantonese being two forms of Chinese language (albeit not as extreme of a difference). In case someone doesn’t know, Western Armenian is a language, not a dialect. It has its own dialects. Armenian language tree divides into two main branches: Western and Eastern, both encompassing their own set of stalks.

[@nicholasguilbault3342]

Thanks so much for this video!! I think it has cleared up a lot of questions for me.

[@19BenZ57]

from PERSIA with Passion

[@benavraham4397]

Beautiful explaination! Do Western Armenians and Eastern Armenians understand each other easily?

[@amberlewis8536]

I guess it depens more on how good one can speak Armenian. Both Western and Eastern Armenian speakers who went to an actual Armenian school all their life will understand eatch other. But people who learn the language "just from their family" will have problems understanding. I myself learnt West armenian at home and I still have problems understanding Eastern speakers when they talk to fast or use other words then I know

[@boshboshish]

thanks mr. Nareg for the great explaination , for some reason even if looks like simpler I still prefer eastern Armenian alphabet system . but my question is : what is the main difference between the letter ( Ճ) and the letter (ջ) , they both pronounced the (dja) even if one is aspirated and the other is not. Also, I have the same question for the letter (Փ) and the letter (պ) they are both pronounced (P) . the last question is difference between (Ծ) and the letter (Ց)․ would you please simplify the each of these letters by breaking each one of them into two precise English letters. for example; Ճ is it dja or dcha or what? Ջ is it dga or dja or what ? I love to learn Armenian language. so please send me back

[@anisimpkins4604]

I speak Western Armenian and it is much easier and Eastern Armenians can understand Western Armenians, but it is harder for Western Armenians to understand Eastern Armenians.

[@gmanvazgen3665]

wrong

[@ivarszickus4570]

Hello, I have a question about Eastern Armenian specifically. I'm using a book to study Eastern Armenian and often I see the դ, which should be pronounced as d, transliterated as t or even th. What is up with that? Example: Անունդ ի՞նչ է: = [Anun't inch e?] It appears like that in my book and also on this omniglot page: www.omniglot.com/language/phrases/armenian.php

[@kho9118]

because it is a hard T('t) which sounds closest to an english D but it not exactly a T or D. The armenian language has more sounds than the western alphabet. So sometimes you have to combine letters in english to make the armenian equivalent or otherwise use the closest equivalent. it is also sometimes imposible to find any equivalent։ such as the case of KH խ

[@offbeatalice8898]

armenian letters are difficult to describe the sound in english, this particular letter is a combination of the t & d sound you hear in english

it is always D in Easter Armenian.....Western, would call it T ...wader..water...

[@maestro4081]

Where is և alfabet ??

[@seroujghazarian6343]

Այբուբենին մէջը չէ

[@jimmyf2618]

Are you the famous Nareg from Montreal ?

[@easternarmenianlesson5135]

Great job! Really love your style of teaching. If you have any free time feel free to check out my lesson videos, thanks!

[@sarban1653]

What about Central Armenian?

[@Andreas-bw5zx]

no such thing as Central Armenian

[@scarletb79]

Hi Nareg and first of all, thank you for showing the alphabet differences between Eastern and Western Armenian. I have a question, though, as I am wondering which one is "the Armenian", that is the language taught in schools (in Armenia and abroad), spoken on the news, in public offices, and the most widely spread, etc. If there is any, of course, as I am approaching this language for the first time and know nothing about it. Thank you in advance for any help!

[@praline4162]

It may be a bit late but let me try to explain it to you and hopefully it will come to you as a notification. Long ago there was a singular Armenian language (rarely spoken today and only by small families that managed to stay isolated in western armenia now eastern turkey) but over time in larger populated zones of armenia western armenian became dominant and is still used by the church to this day outside of Armenia. Churches within armenia and Armenian priests from Armenia obviously use the eastern Armenian dialect though some try to use western during service. The eastern Armenian dialect began forming when the Russians were in control of present day Armenia. Just like how Mexican natives speak English with a strong accent Armenian speakers of Russian had a strong accent. Now over time the accent changed to where Armenians spoke near perfect Russian and Armenian, but it was no longer Western Armenian. It formed the Eastern Armenian dialect and because some words were near impossible to say with that dialect inch goosesgor ( western armenian for what do you want) is a lot harder to say properly as inch kooseskor because if you say it quickly it's a jumbled mess. So they used ousoom ( oo-zoom) and it grew from there. Outside of Armenia it really depends on where you go and where the family came from but private armenian schools tend to teach eastern armenian. Of course they accept western Armenian in tests. Now for the whole regional aspect. Western Armenian is spoken most cleanly in Lebanon and some parts of Syria. Israeli Armenians speak a much more slang filled term of Armenian which is essentially taking a word from another language and or adding an Armenian prefix or suffix. We say Oto ("armenianified" way of saying car derived from Auto) or tren for train or Computer-uh which means the computer Cake-Uh for the cake. In Lebanon they use Gauto for cake. Armenians in the west tend to use French and Turkish words like Mercy or Patates (meaning potato) as opposed to kednekhonsor ( which means ground apple aka potato). Armenians living in Burbank have their own form of Armenian that's been heavily simplified from Eastern Armenian and tends to mix in English. Armenian from Arab speaking lands (including Israel) tend to mix in Arabic here and there but to a very small extent. Armenian from Iran (known as Barska hye) speak a mix of Persian and Armenian which sometimes even we question how they understand each other. Their armenian is based off the east. Russian Armenians tend to include Russian in their sentences but not as much as the Persian Armenians add Persian. Armenians from Russia also don't drop their accent when speaking in Armenian for instance if they just spoke in Russian their accent will tend to stay in russian or if they just spoke a lot of English they will keep their Mixed accent and not go full Armenian. Eastern Armenians have an accent and a way of speaking that is a lot slower and focuses on each syllable because it's a lot of hard sounds. Western Armenian from Arab states tends to be a lot more Flowey and soft (but both always tend to end up sounding like shouting lol). Armenians from the US tend to speak in what seems like broken sentences because in English you highly highly stress each sound of each word and they end up doing the same so it doesn't sound one peace. Turkish Armenians speak Western but also have a bit of a choppy feel to them.

[@scarletb79]

+Sarkis Boyadjian Thenk you for taking the time to explain the differences. If I got it right Eastern Armenian is harder but also more complete? I now kind of feel that's the dialect I may want to go for, if I were to study it. Now I'd be really happy if you could just answer one question. Have you ever heard "Castelletti" or "Kasteliti" somewhere as a family name? Many thanks from Italy!

[@scarletb79]

+scarletb79 Oops, thAnk you with the A!

[@praline4162]

+scarletb79 No I think you may have misunderstood me. Western Armenian for most people will be a lot harder at the beginning because it needs to flow otherwise it'll be a bit unintelligible at times unlike eastern where you can. still at times salvage a sentence. Both have the same completion and ability except native Western Armenian speakers tent to add in these foreign languages or slang words this doesn't mean you'll be taught slang words. Most Western Armenians know all the words but because of how long it is to say computer and train and stuff like that we just tend to use slang instead

[@praline4162]

+scarletb79 Also no I don't believe I've heard that name before

[@shahzebyar6162]

Èastern is accurate and easy

[@MKoze-hw3ys]

can eastern speaker understands everything of western ?

[@kho9118]

sometimes they have trouble understanding but for the most part the message gets across.

[@simbb6751]

CrossWood Productions I speak Western Armenian and I understand 100% of Eastern Armenian. Just because we pronounce words differently does NOT mean that we don’t understand what’s said in Eastern Armenian.

[@potatoalpacas6114]

@Killikia Productions it's the other way around I believe

[@bapo3243]

whos here like uhmm i dont hesr the differences in the alphabet... they all sound the same 😂😂 ALSO HOWD I GET HERE

[@M.Khachatrian36]

"Western" Armenian letters lost 6 sounds that are prominent part of our language since antiquity! Not only that in western pronunciation 5 letters are just simply wrong and reversed in their original pronunciation! Those mistakes in Western Armenian are in clearly and indisputable violation of Mesrop Mashtotz' recovery of ancient Armenian alphabet! It's time to correct those mistakes, restore those 6 lost letter and restore order again! It's simply pathetic that some Armenians just clinging on these mistakes that were clearly caused under influence of Turkish occupation of our lands, as if they were somehow inherent part of the original Armenian language: that's just pure nonsense!

[@kho9118]

I've started pronouncing my բ as 'pb'։ is that an OK compromise? But I dont want to switch the բ and պ։ And I want to keep using իւ spelling։ :-D

[@simbb6751]

That’s a result of western Armenia being under ottoman control for many centuries. Eastern Armenia evolved in Tiflis and Georgians also have those same consonant sounds, so it was easier for the Armenians there to keep those consonant sounds. Logic.

[@simbb6751]

Manvel K you need to go and check your sanity

[@Andreas-bw5zx]

@@simbb6751 nothing wrong with not saying certain sounds it does not make Western Armenian bad in some way. We are both sons of Hayk

[@Andreas-bw5zx]

@@simbb6751 also Eastern Armenian evolved in my city Ejmiatsin. Most of the turkic words we stopped using them and we don't use foreign words like telephone, astronaut, fridge etc. We translated them long ago using Armenian loanwords from Grabar. Western Armenian is rather different in its history and evolution and borrows more words from French then we do here.

[@yardbirdsuite5848]

What the fuck why am I here

[@gurubustercan]

Knock it off, why even try to explain the differences? Yeah, it’s all very good. I grew up in Calcutta India and speak, read and write Armenian, EASTERN Armenian period, my two Teachers were from Armenia at our Armenian College (actually it was a 1-12 grade school and sort-of went on the British Senior Cambridge System) We were taught "Kronk or Armenian Religious Studies" and Gurrabar" or "Classical Armenian" and I had a lot of Persian Armenian friends, and Persian Armenian is way closer to "Hayastantsi" Eastern Armenian so why has this WESTERN Armenian bull-doo doo… infiltrated into the pure Armenian language that is spoken in Armenia? GIVE ME AN EFFING BREAK as the saying goes...so WHY should I even bother speaking in "Western Armenian"? or Tachka-Hayaren? "Kulla, Mullah, hos, hon" crap? P L E A S E...and I'm very "educated" why don't ALL Armenians adopt the Armenian that's actually spoken in Armenia. Much like this KZbin video explains the pronunciation and writing of Armenian from Armenia...duhh...Learning Armenian Language.How to write Armenian letters Learning Armenian Language. How to write Armenian letters

[@nonosh]

Embrace Armenian history for what it is. The two dialects are evidence of imperialism separating our people for centuries. I, too, am formally educated. I was raised speaking Western Armenian, but I made the effort to learn Eastern Armenian three years ago.

[@haigjersey]

gurubustercan with all due respect, your derogatory comment about Western Armenian shows your ignorance of the topic. All the greatest Armenian intellectuals and writers spoke and wrote In "Western" Armenian. I use quotes here because "eastern armenian" is given equal legitimacy. If it is anything, it's a sub-set of Armenian (western to you). The intellectuals and writers were the first to be killed in 1915. Eastern came out of the remnants of our people that survived, thanks to Russia. They prevented Turks from marching into Yerevan and grabbing what's now left of Hayastan. But, from what I know, they corrupted those Hyes and imposed Russian/Slavic influence by contaminating the language with Russian, and when the Bolsheviks took control in 1917, discouraged religion and promoted their form of atheism. The effects are evident today. As a matter of fact, all the inter-breeding with the Armenians has resulted in a noticeable difference of physical appearance between Eastern & Western Armenians. We, Armenians of Anatolia, look more like the Turks and others from Anatolia due to centuries of inter-breeding. All the videos from Armenia show, to me at least, different-looking Armenians. The food there is nothing like the cuisine of Anatolian Armenia. The music is nothing like our Anatolian style (okay--includes Turkish & Kurdish influence, among others) music. So remember that it's all Armenian, before you denigrate the one you don't like. Didn't intend a long reply, but I got more pissed-off as I was writing. Western Armenia culture is the majority heritage of most Armenians, and it's dying as we speak. Turks saw to that. At least we still have a Republic, as corrupt and rotten as its government is. Better than nothing.

[@PeopleOfArarat]

gurubustercan Well, good for you. And I really must say, not only am I impressed that you speak and write in Eastern Armenian, your English is also outstanding! It really communicates what a pathetically arrogant ass you are! WESTERN ARMENIAN is the older, much closer to ORIGINAL Armenian. The "Armenian" spoken in Armenia is Russianized. Thanks anyway, but we don't all want to speak the language imposed on the prisoners of Soviet Russian "Armenia". Why explain the differences? Because the rest of us don't care to ever sound as ignorant as you do, that's why.

[@nonosh]

roosh roosh Your comment is unaware of history. Western Armenian and Eastern Armenian were standardized in the 19th century as a response to the multitude of dialects spoken by Armenians throughout Anatolia and the Middle East. Western Armenian is based on the dialect that was spoken in Istanbul, and Eastern Armenian was based on the dialect that was spoken in Tbilisi. There is no "Russified" or "Turkified" version of Armenian when both dialects are used in formal speech. I was raised speaking Western Armenian, but I must have you know that the consonants of Eastern Armenian are more accurate to the original Armenian language, which is why Eastern Armenian has distinct sounds for every single letter of the Armenian alphabet. Neither dialect is closer to original Armenian; however, each one has traces of the original language. So, if Western Armenian is missing something from the original, Eastern Armenian may still have it; if Eastern Armenian is missing something, Western Armenian may still have it. Please don't be so judgmental if you don't see the historical connections of both dialects.

[@PeopleOfArarat]

First you say, nonosh, that there were many dialects which were standardized into Eastern and Western Armenian (which is true enough), and then, you say that NEITHER is closest to THE original. Do you see the problem with your statement here? I'm not being "judgmental", I'm pointing out that gurubustercan was being judgmental. Western Armenian, at least according to scholars expert in the subject, is the closer dialect to "original" Armenian, from the wider area of unchanged Armenian-speaking areas, for the longest period of time. Further, people from "Armenia" (formerly, Soviet Armenia) tend to arrogantly think they are somehow more Armenian than the rest of us. They aren't at all, and neither is their Armenian language.

[@charminglioness8464]

I can't stand western Armenian accent,it sounds to me so rude,so annoying😈.Eastern Armenian sounds better to me.

[@simbb6751]

I suppose you’re referring to the Western Armenian spoken with mixed Arabic words or whatever. Next time you have smtg negative to say about Western Armenian go and talk to someone educated, see how they speak

[@sarban1653]

@@simbb6751 Don't all West Asian languages have some Arabic words? Even some European languages like Spanish have Arabic words. I think the OP just has a personal preference for Eastern Armenian since they were brought up with it, like how people prefer British English to American English. I don't think it has to do with Arabic words being mixed (Eastern Armenian also has some Arabic words in it).

[@simbb6751]

Sarban what he’s referring to is the Armenians who use Arabic words in their vocabulary. Those Arabic words and not officially part of Western Armenian, they’re like a king of “slang”. Just like Eastern Armenians who mix Russian in their vocabulary. And as for the Western Armenian pronunciation, Western Armenians have a different pronunciation because their dialect evolved in Constantinople and because of that they can’t pronounce պ, տ, կ, ջ, ձ like Eastern Armenians (who kept the pronunciations bc their dialect evolved in Tiflis and Georgians have those sounds)

[@Andreas-bw5zx]

Go fuck yourself Western Armenian sounds so sweet and I am a native Eastern Armenian speaker

[@gmanvazgen3665]

@@simbb6751 you do realize western armenian ha dropped many words, pronounciations, and letters, who is more educated?