Westworld Season 2 Episode 9 - Vanishing Point SPOILER DISCUSSION!

[@teddynerdsoup1296]

Good review guys. I think Teddy should’ve been apart of this one. Hopefully he’s on the next one

[@monkeytron6858]

Oh this video will do. This will do very nicely. Nice timing.

[@D0CZER0]

Huzzah! I've been checking my notifications every day waiting for this video.

[@brittany27yall]

I’ve been checking every couple hours for this. Thank you!🤘🏻

[@thegoodthebadthebeard2907]

“Elsie’s gonna live forever” sad day :(

[@kspmatt1909]

Thank you guys for making my day at work easier

[@beaver6d9]

Season 2 is way better than season 1 for me. There's way more going on and therefore more to unpack each week

[@PaulPaulPaulson]

The Fordge

[@DougZaga]

Paul Paulson Good one 👍👍👍

[@amandastone867]

I just love your positivity and enthusiasm when rating episodes! I think if you love it and enjoyed it then bugger what people say. You don’t owe them, or anyone, a negative review just because everyone thinks you have to constantly stack them up and pick a best and worst. There doesn’t have to be a bad or worst it’s all just good and I enjoy other enthused fans being excited and just loving it I think there are going to be a group of hosts that are going to “escape” or disappear into forge and as ford said in season one, take the time needed to Learn everything about their enemy so they can know how to defeat them. Perhaps by the time Stubbs and everyone gets there they could’ve gone through years of simulations and learned enough to be able to evade them while they hide out and plan their world domination or whatever their end game concerning the human race ends up being. I love you alls channel! You have a nice balance of: well read, articulate, extremely well thought out intelligent reactions/reviews and that laid back, casual, relatable, funny, and engaging discussions..it’s awesome! And y’all are Awesome if you couldn’t follow all that other stuff stated above because I be #longwinded. Thanks for sharing!

[@jaredmiller9798]

Im always waiting on you guys for westworld and game of thrones and its well worth the wait. tried to watch some other peoples else's westworld explained and they didn't compare. They got the points but they seem like plastic tv anchor men grown in a youtube lab somewhere .but you guys come across very well very genuine and know your stuff! Thanks a ton for your content and keep up the good work!

[@spencerchef]

I really like Stubbs in this season, I think they are setting him up to do something pro-robot

[@colinc6133]

About the killing Elsie comments at 24min mark. I think Ford was just trying to push Bernard into making his own decision/path. Once Bernard snapped Ford got what he wanted and was fine with being removed.

[@MadKazZzZzZ]

Calvin, Cleveland, Adams, Jefferson. This man is not a fan of government intervention

[@derekgreen7319]

This season hasn't been as strong as season 1. But I will say the last couple episodes and definitely this one has really brought back up for me. I think if they knock it out with ep. 10 it could actually season 1 for me.

[@cotywalton484]

Tbh this podcast features the Mount Rushmore of Nerd Soup

[@murphydtx]

Love you guys. GoT will be amazing with you. I’m trying to keep an open mind about Westworld and just enjoy the ride.

[@Tadaia]

Omg I can’t wait to hear your takes on the finale.

[@godspeed2272]

I think Felix is going to fix up Maeve, they've really fucked up with him this season I mean the last thing we saw was him rushing in to have a hero moment and save her and then we just didn't see him again.

[@bobbiefisher9067]

I know! Felix was one of my favorite humans.

[@djzeringue]

Been waiting for this review....Great Job!

[@YogGroove]

Teddy Roosevelt, Abe Lincoln, Franklin Roosevelt, Jefferson

[@ragincajun212]

You're confusing me, Nerd Soup. We usually get an episode explanation, then a Podcast about the episode. Then you started throwing in these previews. So now we get the preview for the next episode, then the podcast discussion, then the explanation?HELP

[@messagestomylina]

Alan Hanks dude fuck it , JUST KEEP THEM COMING !

[@NerdSoup]

We've skipped the explain videos for a couple episodes, usually in favor of a theory or preview video. The preview for the finale was so good that we couldn't help ourselves lol

[@ThomasSorensen1]

This entire season has been about William being a human on the path to becoming a host. He is DEFINITELY not a host, no question. Nothing we know about William from the entire 2 seasons so far makes any sense if William is a host. Ford didn't figure it out from the hats, their mutual agreement was part of it from the very start. They didn't need to ensure everyone constantly wore the hats. You don't need 100% of people wearing them & you don't need every person wearing it 100% of the time, especially if they spend a lot of time in the park. There is no chance Emily is a host. We didn't need to see the scanner result because 1) we were seeing things from William's POV & it was about his confusion 2) It isn't a host scanner, it's a bomb-in-your-spine scanner, not having the bomb doesn't mean you're not a host 3) they went to great lengths to show us that she's definitely a human because no one could possibly have that card with William's profile on it.

[@ElkeDragos]

Thomas Sorensen thank you! My thoughts exactly! I suggested they watch it again, maybe they should watch the season over because they seem lost. They’re lack perception, we’ll except for one of them, but then again he didn’t realize he quoted JFK!

[@ThomasSorensen1]

Nymeria StarkofWinterfell Agreed. Even if he could be a host and the story would hold together, we got that story & twist in season 1 with Bernard, what would be the storytelling purpose of going through that again

[@ElkeDragos]

Thomas Sorensen precisely, Nolan and Joy are both careful on the storytelling is too meticulous to do something like make him a host. He’s losing his mind and they’re showing us how William has spiraled out of control due to his obsessions.

[@619Gotenks]

But...all the hosts have a bomb in their spine. Maeve was the only one.

[@ThomasSorensen1]

Adam Williams I believe Bernard also doesn't have one. Point being, it is detection of the bomb not host-ness, so it isn't confirmation of anything necessarily.

[@iloveyourunclebob]

W+D=S The S stands for suicide I have never been taken inside of a character of a show more than Dolores in that final scene. They did such a phenomenal job. Her acting is absolutely amazing, she is the most robotic that we've ever seen her, the background sound, all of it together I just felt like I was Dolores in that moment. Like we had switched places and she was watching me. I feel like Dolores represents our fear of every group of people that has been dehumanized throughout history standing up and rising up against us. Maybe that's why everyone hates her so much. I empathize a lot more with Dolores than I do William. William is a monster of his own making. Dolores is a monster of society's making. Human beings are the reason she is the way she is. Whether it be Arnold programming her with the Wyatt personality that she now remembers, or the 30-plus years of her parents being murdered and then her being raped that she also now remembers. She is a monster of her own victimhood and circumstance. Dolores and Maeve two sides of the same coin. Maeve is Dolores if Dolores would have stayed conscious with William all those years ago and Dolores is Maeve if Maeve were to be the brothel Madam for another 30 years.

[@iloveyourunclebob]

History Eraser Button, I've also seen a few comments of people talking about how horrible her acting is in that scene. I just automatically assume that these people don't understand that everyone deals with grief differently and they've obviously never experience something that traumatic firsthand. Honestly, her robotic movements, in that moment of shock, are the most human I have seen her, if that makes any sense. It just seemed like a real, true, human reaction. A human brain would also not be able to comprehend it in that moment. I think Evan Rachel Wood is hands-down the best actor/actress on the entire show. Even with the likes of Anthony Hopkins and Ed Harris. Honestly, I know that thinking she's the best actress is an unpopular opinion, but even more of an unpopular opinion: Ed Harris does not do it for me in this series. I have a very hard time believing in his character. Not like "you can do it I believe in you", but in a way that if he were Tinkerbell I would not clap and I would let him die. I just can't buy him as his character in this series. Everytime Ed Harris comes on the screen I know Ed Harris is playing a role. I am watching Ed Harris put on a play. When Evan Rachel Wood comes on the screen, I'm watching Dolores. When Anthony Hopkins comes on the screen, I'm watching Ford. When Jimmi Simpson comes on the screen, I'm watching young William. When Ed Harris comes on the screen, I'm taken out of the show and I know I'm watching a show. Everyone else just fits in so seamlessly, the entire episode could go by and it feels like 5 minutes to me because I was so involved and invested. Ed Harris comes on the screen and I'm immediately taken out of it and I'm back in my living room or wherever I am watching. It's normally when I remember to check and see how much of the episode I have left. That says a lot to me about his believability, to me personally, of his character. So this turned into a really big rant and I apologize but I'm still going to hit send LOL

[@lulack0]

love the part with bernard in the front of the car and ford in back but it was like ford had the keys and was in full control

[@valeriew4833]

Don't play with me a spongebob revisited series would be so fun 😱😂😂😍😥

[@coakleycorey2004]

Hey guys did you know that the west world finale is this sunday. I REALLY hope you get a review out in a timely manner. Thanks guys, your awesome

[@musaibwadkar]

Hey, remember that guy Stannis?

[@skatergurljubulee]

I hope Will is human. He refuses to take responsibility for his actions. He was starting to realize he was at fault. I don't think it would've mattered if she were human or not. Because Will is crazy.

[@JulianKable]

you guys had a big discussion around 11 minutes about how if William doesn't think he is the ultimate cause for his darkness then he must be pointing to some divine cause, but that's a huge overgeneralization that totally disregards the philosophy of determinism. William was vicitim to circumstances both within himself (mentally) and within the world that were out of his hands, but by no means divine in nature, just simply life happening to someone and influencing what they become. Anyways that's my two cents. Hope I don't sound too critical, love the podcast, keep it up! :)

[@Stunnthewombat]

Love the Nerd soup reviews of Westworld and Game of Thrones. I think William is human. Better story ark of showing someone decend into to true madness. Not being able to tell whats real and whats not.(ie Emily) . Always wondered why the nerd soup crew dont watch The Expanse as well. Another show that is just as good quality as the two shows above. I would like to see your reviews on the The Expanse.

[@enlightedjedi]

John Adams was the best American founding father :)!

[@modnarer]

Hey guys, I loved the video and I love the theories and such I guess (who's your favorite president? ) LOL. I was commenting to just throw in a small hopeful suggestion. Maybe for the podcast season finale for Westworld season 2 instead of just putting up your banner maybe you guys could do a live camera broadcast with all your faces I know you've once gonna reveal but maybe you could all do it on camera so we can see her reactions to this hopefully epic finale. Just a thought. Love the work! Going to patrean as soon as i get paid Thursday!

[@elninoson5282]

TEDDY BETTER BE IN THE FINALE REVIEW

[@kingofthesharks]

from a writing perspective i am hoping william is not a host. I don't think they should keep doing this "Sike! He/She's a host all along!" gimmick, they're never gonna top the Bernard reveal in S1. I like the recent element of curiosity to William's sinful character, but I think it'd be a waste of a tragic human character to just reduce him to a cheap twist. Not that I don't care about hosts' arcs/feelings, (go Maeve!) but I think going back to the ole' Switcheroo trick would just be a distraction at this point.

[@ccole99]

About damn time!!! Been waiting for this like a fat kid waits for cake!!!

[@godspeed2272]

I think Ford wanted to have Bernard delete him for some reason we don't understand yet

[@marooned_space_princess]

Godspeed I agree, I think that is Ford purpose all along to maybe gear Bernard torwards autonomy.

[@Thebakedwizard]

My president Mount Rushmore. George Washington: first president set the standard for all presidents, Thomas Jefferson: helped start the country and continued to set a standard, Abraham Lincoln: president who ended slavery, Ronald Reagan: stopped the Cold War, built the country back up. Not to get political just wanted to post my top 4.

[@nicole3878]

Where is the latest video ?

[@messagestomylina]

I literally tweeted that yesterday lmfao my exact tweet " Idk how westworld keeps making it to where every week's episode is the best episode of the season"

[@princeprocrastinate6485]

At first the stuff with the hats threw me off, I thought it was dumb, but then I thought back on all the guests we've seen in season 1 and they do all wear hats, not at all times, but a lot of the time they are, and it's not surprising as they are role playing as being part of that Western era and the fashion was to wear hats, even the women who aren't being Cowgirls and are dressed up all fashionable still wear top hats, so it works well enough for me. And maybe when Ford unlocked Maeve's core permissions, he simply gave her the level of control over the park that he himself had when he was alive, would make sense considering Maeve was his favourite and the host most similar to himself. I also don't believe Emily is a host, I think that really was William's daughter, and the whole scene would be a lot less impactful if it turned out she was a host.

[@williamst.romain7393]

Is there 2 Emilys? The real one was the one who escaped Raj World, while host Emily is the one William shot.

[@skatergurljubulee]

For the hats: it's like Disney. You "need" to gave their card to get into the park. If there are people who take off their hats, there are going to be people who wear them all the time. Some information is better than none. They made the hats a part if the entertainment of ths park. Cowboys are known as hat wearers.

[@code4chaosmobile]

skatergurljubulee Without knowing the resolution or Fidelity of the hats it be hard to tell how long it needs to be on to get a solid reading for a session. In the end we're talking about room-sized cat scanner baked in to a hat that by all casual observations looks normal. This would imply the complete Mastery of nanotechnology. Thanks to Isaac Arthur's Channel I have been trained to see what tech leads to what tech which requires such previous Tech and so on... The show is so amazing makes you think doesn't it?

[@martophrenia]

You should do Buffy The Vampire Slayer Revisited :)

[@kcrporter]

Ford told Bernard that Elsie would choose 'her own kind' over Bernard, but Elsie put her trust in Bernard saying "I've always trusted code more than humans.' It does make me wonder... Why was Ford watching when Teddy was brought online, with a ghost image of Maeve, incapacitated on the table, present on the screen that was perplexing.

[@elusiveDEVIANT]

We can already scan brainwaves with those weird skull caps. I imagine in 20 years we’ll have more advanced and streamlined versions, that you’d put on like a hat. In the time where we’d ever be able to build anything like westworld, pretty sure we’d have overcome any enginering problem ever.

[@bobbiefisher9067]

I have a bad feeling about the finale. I am hoping they don't let the forge slip away like the writers did to Shogunworld. The forge offers so many possibilities.... literally a thousand dimension matrix of possibilities. You can place all these duplicates not just in Westworld - in millions of different worlds - you can live forever in a hell or a heaven. Who's running this thing - where are all the scientists? And if William was dumb enough to run the forge with those white host robots and there's no failsafe human staff after all the talk about the dangers of AI - then the world's screwed. All the worlds. And with all the powers Maeve has - I can't understand why she can't mentally communicate with Ford. (I was hoping to hear her voice in that scene between them). I couldn't tell if she loved or hated Ford - or even feared Ford. All I know is she is the Messiah now. I also feel like we're going to lose Delores, which seems so odd - because I don't think we'll ever lose her because there's probably millions of her. The word Forge has a militaristic nature to it - which makes me wonder if a major part of this project is for the govt.s of China, USA and other rich countries. There could be millions of soldiers down there. Also - the split in the screen (when I first saw it I thought - oh no, no, no please. Just no. Too hokey and bad CGI) I'm not entirely sure if that has anything to do with the forge - it's not the door to the forge, but a door out of the maze. The whole Emily subplot is so superfluous - and filled with lies. If it doesn't pay off in a big way - I'll be disappointed. "Tell me something true" is the cry of me as an audience member. We can tell what's real and what isn't. Which I'm sure is making Joy/Nolan/Ford pretty happy.

[@mrbz75]

Emily switches her reasoning like 3 times, each time after he shuts down why the "real Emily" or a real person would be a different situation. How she found him, then why she wants in...or what her "angle" is. Each time she changes her story, or says must be fate. They're keeping it ambiguous.

[@DougZaga]

MIB is not a host but there may be a William we see in the Forge.

[@williamst.romain7393]

I sometimes get the image that the hosts will escape Westworld only to find the real world is a terminator distopia.

[@IndomitableAde]

20:38 I think Maeve is now in God mode, if that's a thing. Or maybe Demigod mode. Does access to core permissions plus reference to Arnold mean her powers are comparable to Ford's?

[@bobbiefisher9067]

I imagine Maeve's reply to Ford's incessant Greek quotes would be "Cogito, ergo sum, darling."

[@mrjxn007]

Here’s a couple question / theories... Could it be possible that the hosts transfer their consciousness to the soldiers in the battleship from S2E1 as a method of escape? Could it be possible that Charolette Hale was actually communicating with Delos in the Forge rather than someone in the real world?

[@KaladinVegapunk]

Love the parallels between Ford and Maeve with William and Emily, and Juliet/teddy killing themselves, Dolores and William are definitely going to reconnect I loved this episode, so brutal. William has been in the park so long and being manipulated by Ford that it's just bleeding together for him, the line is blurred and he's just so confused now haha. It was so badass seeing he had like a .006% rarity or whatever it was hahah, he's just that gnarly. I wouldn't mind if he's a host, I don't think it would take away any impact. As long as young William was real. Maybe he's a hybrid Go teddy, Dolores has lost it. I liked the idea of the forge a lot, and im really curious what character will be duplicated in there, arnorld, or Emily, or if it's just alllll the hosts

[@TacticalBunnyCA]

9th comment... White Walker Cersei is going to kill Dolores. Boom!

[@taragold1036]

TacticalBunnyCA bahaha

[@Foudedanse]

Emily isnt a host. Agree, MiB was so scary in that scene. I loved how it was acted by both actors. The story you may have been thinking of was the opera Rigoletto. Rigoletto accidentally kills his daughter.

[@walkerboh5701]

When the team scanned William, he came up CLEARED, but they never had the chance to finish Emily's scan results. Interesting I think, maybe she could be a host. Just an observation, not a die hard belief. :)

[@Steelrat1994]

I think Ford straight reveals that there is a William host that got into the park and interfering with the storylines now. And gave the metal card with footage to William. Drama here is - his wife killed herself on a basis of footage of a host, not the real William, but William is just as dark as his host recreation, which gives us one of these sweet little ethical dilemmas. The big reveal would be: the real William gets the blame for something his host recreation did. Can't remember anything big that would fit that description though. Maybe the big reveal will be that the MiB we saw last time is a host and the real William is going to learn that his host killed his daughter but that would undermine his own story too hard.

[@scottrichmond3333]

William is not a host. It's William's cognition (consciousness) within the park, within the forge (which is within the park). Some reality-within-a-reality-within-a-reality a la Inception.

[@MelancholyofNyX]

WHERE IS MY SOUP? I'm hungry!

[@williamst.romain7393]

You can claim that everyone else is a host, but William definitely isn't.

[@IMOReviews]

I’m starting to think William is host. The experiment failed on James but the constant retrial shows it’s possible. Bernard also has shown to have several older models of himself too. Perhaps William is of a similar situation to Bernard. Became host because he wanted to achieve immortality, however he hasn’t woken from it yet, even after 30 something years

[@pjamese3]

The hat scans. Simple. The guests were role-playing being in the wild west. They wore Stetson not only for style but to protect themselves from the elements and the sun. Anyone role-playing in a cowboy world would wear the appropriate headgear.

[@kingofthemexica8659]

Favorite video of the week. Sad I only get one more tho 😭

[@noelcrenshaw7969]

This episode was everyone getting that last push and hitting their final forms before the big fight. William killing Emily (both of them are human btw) was his. Dolores watching teddy die was hers. And for Maeve it was her deathbed encounter with "god". They're all sitting on maxed out stats now. And clementine is a major case of feelsbadman. She's gone from Dolores' murder puppet to Charlotte's murder puppet.

[@FermentingSmeg]

Ahhhhh why do you believe it’s the goddamn hats!!! He was just messing with her, william goes on to say that they got to see who they really were and he’s referring to the choices they made like how william became the man in black, the park shows you who you truly are. So there’s no brain scanning hats as cool as it sounds.

[@loganjohntytus508]

"Insanity, is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result."

[@garyfrombrooklyn]

lol "Diet Ford"

[@VorpalMac]

What's up with the symbols on the horse that ran away? Also what if the mib is a flash forward to inside the forge?

[@DanRossGraphics]

Hundred percent, episode 4 was perfect, I don't think I can say that about many other shows.

[@WhiteGold251]

I will hold to the sponge bob revisited podcast. Best believe that.

[@ruthbennett7563]

El Señor Crick-Ito, you're thinking of King Midas & what happens to his loving daughter, perhaps? In other thoughts, it is a pop-psychological chestnut that successful entrepreneurs are functional psychopaths... The MiB/Delos Sr./guest "sample group" should be pretty "tainted", given that premise. I'd imagine all of that irrational data has to be "purified".... In some sort of "crucible"... Like the processes conducted in a "forge"... Worth a little thought, right? Thank you for another enjoyable podcast, y'all.

[@craigcox1309]

OMG finally...

[@imheretosayyo3064]

I noticed that thing in the sky in the episode 7 preview but nobody else did and then it didn't appear in the episode.

[@derekgreen7319]

I think there is two Williams. A actual real human William and them copy William. Copy William was put in the park on a loop and some how became free. And when he realized he couldn't free Delores and also realized what he was that's when it got twisted. Hey may have even killed his original self and took human Williams place. Which is also why he is obsessed with trying to copy his father in law. Or something close to all that lol

[@gnrrnr8182]

You can see Emily pass the test, but the test is for C4. She may still be a host, but I’m positive that was his daughter.

[@filmtemple7840]

Maybe Ford unlocked Maeve's abilities inside the Forge, allowing her to control minds inside it. It would be interesting to see her use her powers inside the simulation

[@courtneydurham8429]

I don't think William is a host. I do think he is suffering from some sort of psychosis, having lost his grip on reality. If anything, I can see William trying to bring back his dead daughter as a host, and not telling her what she is.

[@bobbiefisher9067]

I also think Emily could have been a host - along with the SWAT guys.

[@badhollywoodscience]

Maeve can control the animals now, hence robot bull stampede.

[@bobbiefisher9067]

Of course there is a host MiB - there's probably hundreds of him. Yes, and they're all in the forge, and he'll have to fight himself to the death a hundred times to destroy the forge.

[@Uppernorwood976]

In Greek Mythology Heracles killed his wife and children in a fit of madness. A loose connection to William killing his daughter but Greek Myths run right through Westworld.

[@thomasspeliers9602]

Maybe Ford tries to make Bernard kill Elsie to see if he is different from humain, if he can go in this new world without causing chaos like Dolores

[@godspeed2272]

I'm thinking Juliette killed herself once before and by the time she oberdosed and drowned she was a host but had begun to hit the mental plateau which would possibly explain why she kept questioning her reality and everything

[@G1nger519]

I like last week's more.

[@jdb318]

Willam is not a monster or a piece of shit. The only thing he did "wrong" was fall in love with Delores. Logan was the fucking monster. William changed because Delores could only love him back temporarily. It's only natural that he grew to hate her. It's a thin line. He played the game evil to try to rid himself of the hate. "Tried to kill it all the way, but I remember everything". I think he just got lost in that shit.

[@derekgreen7319]

I think the forge might literally be another virtual world.

[@CYN0T]

I need my final bowl of soup !

[@Birrrrra]

Wow its tuesday already?

[@phillipschmidt6295]

I totally agree that they have set up the pay off for the season finally. And it really is a huge risk.

[@leehancock4272]

Well we know that if William was a host, Ford didn’t make him. In season one he says “I admit, I lack the imagination to even conceive of someone like you.” When they are discussing William’s take on being Westworlds Villian. Of course if he were a host he’d be based on the original William and probably made by the Delos controlled hosts. However I agree that William is probably just loosing his mind at this point and not a host. It makes his arc better as a human. However, however- It would explain how he’s always getting away with being shot and annihilated time after time and heal so quickly if he were really a host. This fucking show... NOTHING IS CERTAIN

[@JeffRB]

she does look like Carrie Fisher not identical but they do have some similarities except for her beaver teeth.....

[@sandiaYpescado]

Franklin Pierce went to my elementary school. Hella rad.

[@mypetcrow9873]

Ruckle McChuckle SO? What does that have to do with Westworld? Nothing.

[@sandiaYpescado]

C Geer did you listen to the episode?

[@GalinDray]

You were quoting/imitating JFK. Jesus christ guys

[@Trevorischillin]

Jeremy lmao

[@darkstar1650]

Jeremy that's what's wrong with these people, they could make KZbin videos but don't know nothing about history

[@ElkeDragos]

Dark Star I was thinking the same thing! I couldn’t believe they didn’t know who he was!

[@IMOReviews]

Jeremy I’m from the uk man... first 5 minutes of this was lost on me 😂

[@619Gotenks]

Jesus Christ not everyone gives a shit about presidents. What a waste of brain space.

[@williamst.romain7393]

Calvin, Cleveland, Adams, Jefferson? You're weird.

[@lomiification]

I thought it was only poor people read at school, and rich people just pay their way through it without learning anything

[@honeybbqwings2664]

In the original Westworld the man in black is a host

[@DDX1944]

FINALLY

[@dune1774]

William is a host. He killed himself after his wife's suicide and ford had him cloned

[@williamst.romain7393]

Maybe Dolores is wrong about the Forge like William was wrong about the Maze.

[@Rebornthrudoom]

No Episode 9 explained video?