Wet Palettes Offer Zero Control? Tommie Soule

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This week we chat to the Legend Tommie Soule. Tommie has paint insane armies, won a golden demon, and teaches miniature painting. We pick his brain and break down how he thinks you can improve your painting.
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Chapters
0:00 - Introductions
0:15 - Guest Introduction: Tommy Soule
1:46 - Tomie's Start in the Hobby
2:26 - Early Painting Experiences
4:10 - First Visit to Games Workshop Manchester
5:13 - The Influence of Tomie's Mom
6:18 - SquareSpace Sponsorship
9:00 - Transition from Hobby to Professional Painting
10:10 - Importance of Process in Painting
12:29 - Watching and Learning from Tim Prow
13:14 - Teaching and Sharing Knowledge
14:29 - Writing The Art of Tommie Soule with Dave Taylor
16:43 - Changing Behavior to Improve Skills
18:16 - Avoiding Common Hobby Myths
20:23 - Practical Tips for Miniature Painting
23:00 - Winning a Golden Demon by Accident
29:32 - Emphasizing Practical Skills Over Tools
32:04 - Teaching Experiences and Observations
36:06 - Controlling Paint Consistency
45:03 - Appreciating Different Painting Styles
50:03 - Handling Criticism in the Hobby Community
57:00 - Running Painting Courses
1:05:00 - Storytelling Through Painting
1:14:00 - Creating a Painting Book
1:24:00 - Importance of Imagination in Miniature Painting
1:34:00 - More "The Art of..." Painters
1:44:00 - Conclusion and Final Thoughts
1:55:00 - Farewell and Future Plans

[@thepaintingphase]

Head to squarespace.com/thepaintingphase to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code THEPAINTINGPHASE

[@markcoxy001]

Tommie really does deliver a painting lesson like no other. Highly recommend his tuition to painters of any standard.

[@erikbraun473]

The whole podcast is great, but let's be honest I'm here for the square space ads lore first and everything else second.

[@FauxHammer]

Pat won't even tell us where the story is going!

[@erikbraun473]

@@FauxHammer we're all on this wonderful journey together!

[@craigskelton189]

This man is an absolute genius. Very, very knowledgeable and totally humble. Through his book, various interviews, and informal chats he's given, my understanding of miniature painting has skyrocketed. The man's work speaks for itself, thankyou for having him on, love Tommie Soule, man. Cheers

[@FooLmanUF]

what an absolute legend he is... The man just radiates knowledge while there is no trace of "I'm just better than you".

[@thepaintingphase]

Nailed it! He's so great

[@DamianHibbard]

I loved this episode, Tommy Soule is such a star. He's a fascinating character and has so much to share. Painting Phase knocks it out of the park again.

[@thepaintingphase]

Thanks so much. Very kind.

[@theanimaster]

These Square Space commercials just keep getting better 😂

[@TheDrkato]

Basically grew up in GW Manchester, under the foodcourt in the Arndale. Big ups Tommie, Matt, Paul and Dave and and the old school staff was the best atmosphere, special times.

[@AlexCopeMusic]

This dude is incredible. What an insightful and humble man

[@BecauseOfDragons]

I love Tommie's philosophy on painting - we had him on a show last year and he was enlightening. Came away from it feeling much better about my painting, even at a much lower level than him.

[@krzysztofmathews738]

Great interview! I love the emphasis on hands-on practice and observation. This is all about the craftsmanship!

[@donutbarbell]

Hands down, best episode you've done. What a great guest

[@thepaintingphase]

Thanks so much, very kind.

[@frazerrhughess]

The guest is really cool and like my favorite artist in other areas listening to him talk about his art process make me want to explore mine as deeply and one one day deeper than he does

[@Blacknight8850]

Just been listening to the audio version, and I thoroughly agree with the points about how knowing what the tools and paints do and working accordingly being better than sticking to truisms like "use a wet palette / two thin coats" without understanding _why_ you're doing it. Like I stopped using a wet palette because I realised I was only doing it because dropper bottles always squirt out more than I need, and it was just a graveyard of leftover paint that diluted itself long before I'd use that colour again. I ended up saving so much more paint in the long run and achieving the same results by learning to keep the brush wet, spread the paint thin as it dries, and using pots instead. It's not the "correct" way according to folk wisdom, but it's the best _for me._

[@BunkoFlakes]

Seeing a man's passion really oozing out of him with such enthusiasm and truthfulness is a beautiful thing. Personally I don't paint miniatures anymore due to a lack of free time but I still love and admire the hobby. Great podcast!!

[@OffbeatBuilds]

Really enjoyed this one. A lot of painters talk extensively about the "how", but it's less common to see the "why" discussed. Tommie definitely has me questioning why I go to certain techniques, and how much of my workflow is propelled by momentum and "I've always done it that way" thinking. Inspiring stuff!

[@tjthehobopainter9173]

In two words: Absolutely inspiring 👍

[@robodinosaurs]

🎉 More Tommie More Tommie More Tommie More Tommie 🎉

[@GoblinGreen2021]

Tommie!🙌 Tommie's book is superb, I got it on the pre-order/kickstarter. Hes also a superb painting tutor and a nice guy to boot!

[@handlechar568]

what book? i see 5 "art of" books?

[@thepaintingphase]

There’s nine books in total (which a lucky Patreon will win) and Tommie’s book is number 5 and it can be bought at Element Games, Warlord or Dave Taylor miniatures.

[@handlechar568]

@@thepaintingphase ah, perfect, thanks.

[@handlechar568]

@@thepaintingphase ah, perfect, thanks.

[@rononel8046]

I remember when Tommie worked at GW Manchester. He used to tell me to just watch people painting their miniatures and take on board what they were doing. I'd sit there for hours just watching him paint, I still can't paint as well as him though 🤣 he taught me SO MUCH though...

[@lordlasadies7960]

Great pod, Tommy is such a wholesome person. Been a fan of his work since I saw his NMM Blood Angel.

[@cheech381]

This is probably the best guest so far. Learnt a lot Northern Zen From Tommie in this episode. Have been a fan of his from a long time 2007 at least. Saw he was at Salute this year. He gave me 1-2-1 training at a Games Day showing me how to paint a crystal sword on the side of a square 25mm base. Never forget that lesson.

[@FacesNBases]

Thanks for getting Tommie on. Such an eye opener for my painting experience and outlook. Great show.

[@josephspeak6366]

Glad to hear someone bigging their mum up too. My mum was the one taking me to painting classes at GW when i was young. Shes a huge reason im still I'm the hobby 20-odd years later.

[@thepaintingphase]

Love it!

[@mikeo9375]

What a bloke his love and enthusiasm for painting is infectious. I watched this and headed straight over to element to buy his book roll on the 31/05 for dispatch day 😊 keep up the great work lads !

[@Pork-Pie-Pete81]

Great vid as always guys. Tommy was a great guest, really interesting painting philosophy. Loving Ross as a third. I hope he is a regular feature. Your comedy/chemistry is fantastic.

[@HereticsHeroes]

Gonna have to hard disagree with his opinion on wet palettes, he claims you can't argue with the science, but the science is against him; once the capillary action saturates the palette paper the whole system is going to reach an equilibrium point where the rate of evaporation will stabilize relative to the water absorption rate as long as there is water in the reservoir (sponge). This will lead to an environment that is every bit as predictable as a dry palette with the added benefit of a lower *net* evaporation rate since moisture loss will be (evaporation - replenishment from the reservoir).

[@kylekeenan3485]

Dry pallette - I get dry flakes occasionally in my paint because it's dried and come off, it then goes onto my models giving me unwanted texture. Models I have spent 10-20 hours painting. Wet pallette - I don't

[@Anthonythomas_19]

Okay, but that wasn't his point was it, how much control do you have in that moment?

[@jesterprince4949]

I'm not sure the point about having no control with a wet pallet stands at all. I have no issues glazing or doing base coats, mixing paint or anything in-between with paint from a wet pallet. I find dry pallet far more frustrating because the paint constancy changes far more rapidly. The "science" he pointed out is surely worse with a dry pallet because its ONLY evaporation that's happening, so the paint you started with is not the paint you finish with unless your topping it up.... which means variable consistency. A wet pallet in theory maintains whatever consistency for longer (which is why paint is workable longer with a wet pallet). Besides, I would argue you are better off focusing on the water on your brush, than what's on the pallet, that gives you the most control at any given time. Maybe I am missing the point though. After all I have won zero golden daemons (though I have never entered one).

[@HereticsHeroes]

@@jesterprince4949 This is exactly what I was saying; "how much control do you have in that moment?" Well at the very least exactly as much control as a dry palette since it is a 100% predictable environment PLUS you've mostly eliminated one of the biggest variables by dramatically slowing down paint drying time. It's entirely reasonable to say you have less control with a dry palette since you've relinquished the ability to control paint dehydration.

[@theminiaturepaintingtutor7885]

Never ever use a clean ceramic or glass as a pallet. Flakes will be the case. Some of you may find this useful kzbin.infoUh4qi-uDjq0?si=jx1IKbPWa3YaN3xY

[@DJO_Kosick]

Great episode guys. Really enjoying the second iteration of this show, Fauxhammer is a great addition.

[@FauxHammer]

Thanks so much

[@thepaintingphase]

Damn straight he is, such a hunk ❤️

[@SleepyKharnac]

This was a genuine delight and very helpful, thank you so much!

[@bornincrimson]

The podcast has really hit its stride again. It works well as a trio and Ross fits in very well with Geoff and Patrick. I was a little concerned when Peachy left but these recent episodes have been great quality. Cheers!

[@FauxHammer]

Thanks so much!!!, They are some damn big shoes to try and fill! So I'm not even gonna try lol.

[@hobby_quick]

Tommie is proper Zen. He gave me a 1-to-1 intro session on NMM, and his philosophy on painting is just... serene. Like every brush stroke should be doing something to get you to the finished model. Dry brushing is a waste of time because you'll do 20-30 strokes but with a layers/glazing you'll do 5 or 6 and get a better result for, essentially, less effort. Sorry Tommie, I still dry brush but I'll try to do better!

[@theminiaturepaintingtutor7885]

Drybrush all you want. I do. You may have a peice of info missing here eh ❤😊

[@Theotherone89]

Tommie said “if I can encourage people to paint more models then I will do.” Well please relay to him that this struck a chord with me. It’s not even that listening to this interview got me to engage with why I do this, but, it got me to internalize what I want out of this. What really is the level that I want to achieve? How do I get there? Am I happy just following quick tutorials to get a quasi-box art look? Do I want something more? Can I get that something more while still maintaining my own personal goals (speed, whittling down the pile of shame, etc.)? Tommie brought this unique blend to make you think of it not just as your hobby (while it still could be) but finding a way to consider taking it at another level mentally to make it your craft. And it doesn’t matter what level of painting you want to get to. It’s your mindset and how you approach painting and how it impacts you. Great chat and I hope to see him on again.

[@thepaintingphase]

Thanks for a great reply Thomas. Tommie is keen to come back on and we’re really keen to have him back.

[@MFATMF]

I got Tommies book recently and its honestly one of the best things I've ever read, the level of detail he goes into to establish good knowledge of the fundamentals is mind blowing. Great to see him on the podcast!

[@boodzilla_2649]

Love my broken toad brushes but unfortunately they are coming to the end of their life now and have been scouring the net trying to find their replacement and would never even considered element brushes but after watching this i will be giving them a blast

[@nofixedcourse]

That was fantastic. I always enjoy hearing Tommie talk about how he teaches and his views on painting. The fact that so many of his students have gone on to be world class painters in their own right speaks volumes and shows that once you love the process and love learning, you can take that as far as you want.

[@scroggie_mini_painting3983]

Cheers lads! I got in late to the mini paint hobby and it’s fantastic to see and learn about legends in the business. Off to buy Tommie’s book now! Thank you all

[@artlessarcher]

I was at the second demon day at Malatrom Games, I remember painting a studio mcvey Broga and Tommy showing me Gold NMM, had a great day came away inspired think it was £80 Tommy, Ali and Mike McVey memories of a lifetime, thanks Tommy I bought your book in the Kickstarter they all very good, just backed the latest with 10-12👍🏻

[@martinwaller2881]

Nice to get a shout out! It was a long time ago but really enjoyed my class with Tommy and took a lot from it. Good to see him doing well.

[@theminiaturepaintingtutor7885]

Cheers Martin. I'll give you all the shouts you need!

[@niallcampbell]

Tomie - I still have your notes from the class you held in Aberdeen yearsss ago! It really opened my eyes to approaching painting in a different manner :) top episode Painting Phase!

[@gavinhunt7644]

when this video started I thought Tommy was a bit much and I wasn't going to get all the way through it, after about 40 mins though I realised he was absolutely sodding amazing and if he decides to run any more courses I'm signing up! Totally buying the book too! Great show by the way guys, my favourite show in the hobby space bar none! Keep it rolling ;)

[@jheu781]

Thank you Tommie, you provide such a great perspective.

[@nathanbuxton3271]

Very interesting guy, could listen to him all day

[@thepaintingphase]

I want him to move in and live under my painting table.

[@willhannah5548]

Geoff you were so right what an excellent episode. Superb content great to see Fauxhammer again, brill addition to the team. See you next time you come to get your cheese.

[@fletcherspainting]

This has probably been my fav podcast of yours so far lads, tommy is very inspiring. Ross was also a great interviewer; hope to see more of him.

[@thepaintingphase]

Ross is on The Team now, so lots of him to come.

[@terminatoruk4921]

"If you are not happy with it when you are finished....then it is not finished" - brilliant way of putting it and I think that's something we all go through. Will have to disagree on wet palettes though - that improved my painting game massively due in part just increasing the fun of not having to nurse drying paints on my palette every few minutes!

[@theminiaturepaintingtutor7885]

Yes, Doing the hobby for fun is precisely how you should do it. Wet or dry :)

[@sinisterplank3113]

I'm also a wet palette lover, but I also agree with the points made. The way I use it is to just keep the paint workable longer, I still use a dry palette, kitchen roll or the classical painters thumb to adjust consistency. The wet palette is mostly there to help me have a blob of paint ready and moist through the process.

[@terminatoruk4921]

Can't remember where I saw it (might have been a Duncan Rhodes tutorial) but my other level-up for consistency is to have a blob setup on your palette and just draw about half of it away adding water so you have a 'range of consistency' available from very dilute all the way to 'out of the pot'. You can then pull a bit from the strongest mix into your dilluted part to get the mix right for what you need for any specific application. Like was mentioned in this podcast, it is tricky to teach that and only comes with practice over time to get the 'feel' of that and that all paints even in the same range has a different behaviour

[@sinisterplank3113]

Just started watching, and i just want to say its good to see anpther grown man being an unapologetic mommys boy. My mom is also rad as f-k.

[@Chimer24-qs5wo]

Fantastic listening to Tommie. Skills plus good sense and so much knowledge. Brilliant )O(

[@lamicrobio...engros5427]

another great video to make our day ! also it is the first time KZbin notify me of your new content so I guess it is progress ^^

[@thepaintingphase]

Truly thanks for that, it’s good news.

[@carlfraenkl-rietti3381]

Great chat. Great person. Great teacher

[@matthewfairweather8362]

My newest favourite painter - Tommie Soule! The master painter of painters

[@BigMekDanskull]

This has probably been my favourite ever episode to listen to. I picked up Tommie's book when I saw it by the till in Element, but to my shame, I've barely even looked at it. The purchase coincided with an extended break from the hobby for me, but what this man doesn't know about painting, especially when it comes to approach and mentality, isn't worth knowing. Great show guys

[@thepaintingphase]

Too kind, thanks so much.

[@johncastellano297]

This guy is a legend. Fantastic episode!

[@komma8203]

I still got a stack of brokentoad brushes laying around, great brushes. I do not agree with the wetpallet stuff, but that might be that i learned to use it after using it for over a decade

[@sebastianking2531]

Just listening to Tommie is so inspiring! Too bad he doesn't give any workshops anymore, let alone one on mainland Europe. I would love to learn from him I in person.

[@thepaintingphase]

Never say never…..,

[@theminiaturepaintingtutor7885]

I still 1 to 1 too

[@sebastianking2531]

@@theminiaturepaintingtutor7885 Though I would love to, because of my personal situation flight traveling is not in my budget as of now. I don't know if you had planned to be at this year's Spiel in Essen for the Golden Demon, I would be the first to sign up for an opportunity to learn from you.

[@grantchapman8489]

Love this chat ❤

[@alanshroue7]

Tommy is the hobby yoda

[@Apepz0rz]

Great episode lads

[@leerafferty3069]

Really enjoyed this would have happily listened to another 2 hours.

[@paintertovey]

Damn, he's such an interesting guy. I could listen to him for days

[@dalefoster4561]

what a legend

[@paulbaker5256]

I haven’t read any of the other “The Art Of…” books (yet!). But I will say that Tommie’s is the best hobby purchase I’ve made in many a year. I would highly recommend to anyone with even a passing interest in mini painting.

[@thepaintingphase]

So true.

[@CPTmason509]

Great episode, and now I have to deep dive on all of Tommie's work! Also if you ship to the US, books ship under something called Media Mail (its much cheaper).

[@thepaintingphase]

Cheers Adam, appreciated.

[@andrewgibb2663]

If you want the books in the US, they ship domestically from Dave Taylor Miniatures.

[@Robbo78]

Yes Tommie!!!!!

[@B4MBI72]

Been trying to get hold of his Art Of Book for so long, every time I remember to check Element its awaiting stock....

[@FauxHammer]

As much as I love Element, try Warlord games. They are the official distributer. That’s where I got mine. But to be fair. I live round the corner.

[@liampycroft1834]

Awesome espisode :) Trio presenting along with Tommie wokred really well. P.S. These adverts for Square space starting to have thier own story arch? Want to know what happns in episode 3 following thier counceling session :D

[@FauxHammer]

Pat won’t even tell us what’s happening!!! I know your pain!!! Next episode!!!!!! C’mon!!

[@chrism7395]

1:55 as a Plymouthian, I wonder if that was Games Inc or Antics

[@esaedvik]

First spinny blueberry...flawless. Lordy.

[@DJRockford83]

All that skill and talent, with customers wanting what he offers and he's on benefits?! I can't have heard that right surely??

[@user-og5rk5lt1s]

he's a painter not a business guy or a marketer.

[@ashcullen9835]

regardless of peoples opinions this was a really good episode. really great to see a artists perspective on how he approches the hobby. always something interesting to lean from others. also Jeoff this is the quietest you have ever been in an episode hahahaha.

[@thepaintingphase]

I met my match in Mr Soule! Us North Westerner can’t half yap.

[@paulprimetime100]

All the cool kids started in Plymouth 👍🏻

[@esaedvik]

1:12:04 Sugs got called out. Everything's a goblin.

[@esaedvik]

haha "lieutenant" :D Them's is GW parking garage words thems are.

[@thepaintingphase]

😂🤣😂

[@DarkerDaysRadio]

Wooo Tommie!!!

[@Tinweasel]

How do I control consistency? One drop at a time! :)

[@stainsbykingsby1889]

My wife (who’s from the south), has no hope of understanding the sheer northern accents in this 😂 as a Middlesbrough lad, she struggles to understand me sometimes! 😂

[@thepaintingphase]

😂😂😂

[@pvrhye]

You can't entirely control the rate at which the wet palette dilutes paint. Likewise, you can't entirely control the rate at which the dry palette dries out.

[@theminiaturepaintingtutor7885]

Absolutely right!

[@thepaintingphase]

No one of that is incorrect. Well said.

[@theminiaturepaintingtutor7885]

I wonder what other info i didn't talk about in this brief overview? ;)

[@Celticfish7]

Barely20 mins into the chat I already feel the new to praise you all! Don't know if its the Mom or Thomas's zen on painting… 😂 I have to say I was veery concerned when it was annouced that Peachy was leaving. But the MOJO is still there boys! And Mr. Fauxhammer has integrated just nicely into the new trio. Bravo! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼😁

[@thepaintingphase]

I don’t think I know you but I love you - Geoff

[@FauxHammer]

Thanks so much mate!!!

[@Celticfish7]

Loving old Asian man with Celtic nicks across the globe listening to TPP podcast? I worry for you Geoff! 😝 I must say from the start the guest talk time usually dominates the show and I don’t know much about you and Pat till the time when Peach left. I must say that was a nice phase to know you two better. And yes! I am looking into 3D printing too! ✌🏼😁 PS this is Irwin Phua from Singapore.

[@OldManRogers]

Why does Geoff only have 4 stars on his arm when any sane person would rate him 5/5?

[@thepaintingphase]

Oh man that’s too kind. I’m along way from perfection.

[@khi-jonchua985]

It's totally unfair for him to making a promise that he wasn't going to keep. I don't know why you'd still wanna be friends with him :< Suddenly I'm hungry for cheese.

[@garywoolliscroft6976]

Anybody want to buy a secondhand wet palette?

[@chaosclg]

I severely disagree and find that with my wet pallet i have more control than a dry pallet. i control the consistency of my paint exactly as i want it and have never ever had an issue. I think the problem is store bought wet pallets because they are just not good. high quality kitchen roll and grease proof paper is better than any wet pallet on the market and better than any dry pallet.

[@seanclarke8015]

Control over your tools is the point he is making. Nothing is better than anything else, if you have mastered control over your tools.

[@thepaintingphase]

It makes far more sense in context. The episode is very much worth a watch.

[@seanclarke8015]

@thepaintingphase it's one I'm gonna have to keep rewatching. I love how he describes art and it takes some time to really listen to what he brings. Truly a wonderful guest.

[@manosanastasiou4405]

Nee wet pallets ovah here nivah have niva will haha thin ya paint n spread it over n azera coffee lid

[@MikeB-nn4nh]

Which type of milk though.. full fat.. semi skimmed.. almond or Aldi… 🤔

[@thepaintingphase]

Yes is the answer.

[@alexwild1435]

Have I missed something? Who is Ross and where is Peachy?

[@thepaintingphase]

Peachy has left to do his own thing. Ross is from the ‘Fauxhammer’ channel and is a long time friend of TPP. He’s kindly come on board.

[@alexwild1435]

@@thepaintingphase I had no idea, well I wish him well but he will be missed. I had to come and find the video as the podcast came on and I couldn’t work out who this new voice was! Great show as usual x

[@theezekarion164]

What happen too peachy?

[@thepaintingphase]

Peachy left to do his own channel.

[@grimmriffer]

This guy has no idea what he's talking about. I am totally a shit painter. (I also can't be arsed with wet palettes though.)

[@thepaintingphase]

For someone who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, Tommie has managed to write a very respected book on the subject and highly thought of in the painting community.

[@grimmriffer]

@thepaintingphase I think you've just had a "woosh" moment... 😆 But I'll shoulder some of the blame. Maybe I should have phrased it more like this: "This guys's wrong, I actually really AM a shit painter! 😉 "

[@theminiaturepaintingtutor7885]

A wise person once said if a person argues for thier deficiencies they get to keep them. I see you greater than

[@bradluck1108]

I wondered why we weren't seeing peachy and had to google it. He's left due to creative differences. Could've used a short goodbye video to help lads. ☹️

[@thepaintingphase]

Both goodbyes were on instagram.

[@bradluck1108]

Peachy Tips

[@thepaintingphase]

?

[@Malty404]

Not using a wet pallet is a weird thing to be elitist about

[@FauxHammer]

Who is being elitist about it? I'm confused by this and assume it;s a good natured comment?

[@BrendanReith]

Ross replacing peachy.... shame that TPP, was a Sum thats greater than its parts. still tuning in, hoping that you guys find your stead but this isnt it.

[@thepaintingphase]

It’s funny, we went from 2 to 3 and people liked it and some didn’t, we went from 3 to 2 and some people liked it and some didn’t, we went from 2 to 3 and Ross has been well received by most. It just shows you can never please everyone.