What are the most common mistakes new pastors make?

“What are the most common mistakes new pastors make?"
Dr. Hershael York answers in Honest Answers | Episode 70
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[@kevinlee1323]

I wish they would have a class in seminaries that would actually teach about what ministry is like, what to expect, and how to handle the crisis biblically.

[@djboii]

It doesn’t have to be taught as class, it must be practiced in the church. Be involved in the local church, make church a priority not the seminary.

[@charlesedwardridenourjr.8290]

All of my classes at Southern so far have taught just that. I’m finishing a personal evangelism class right now. It has required me to get out and prayerfully tell people about Christ.

[@newfbct9715]

Some schools do, not enough. Also, young pastors do not serve with older pastors anymore. This internship or apprenticeship would better prepare many pastors for the daily task of ministry including its challenges.

[@RevDavidReyes]

@@charlesedwardridenourjr.8290that’s great!

[@happyteacher7294]

You are the first Pastor that I ve heard who understands this

[@ChrysJones]

Thanks Dr. York, I hope to take your preaching class. I've greatly benefited from your book "Preaching With Bold Assurance".

[@kennethw.johnsonjr.4555]

So much wisdom here. Thanks, Dr. York!

[@alecsmith6328]

I wish I nwould have watched this about 10 years ago. I was basicaly starting from scratch and it was me and 3 other people and I allowed myself to have exspectations to high and I did get hurt feelings about one year in or less and I allowed that to send me into a pitty party and that caused my back slide and feeling sorry for myself and it took me years to get back to that and I still have not really preached or teach the word I am just now getting back to that in my walk with God. Who knows what would have or could have happend if I just looked for help sooner. You are doing a good work. thank you. this is uplifting to hear I am not the only one and there is a way to get past that.

[@brianb4390]

My pastor is such a "rock" built upon Christ. I'm so glad I met this man.

[@thejustdrumz2341]

Brian B Glory be to God. May he continue to stay focused and stand strong 💪. Amen 🙏

[@Vics251]

Never put anyone up on a pedestal, you will only be disappointed when you realise they are actually no better than you.

[@brianb4390]

@@Vics251 I worship no man save God/Christ/Holy Spirit BUT 👉👉" 1 Peter 5:5 - Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all [of you] be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble."

[@robertbalibao8720]

I'm blessed with this. Praise God!

[@joshualieder7524]

Trying to change everything without finding out whats being done currently and is working. Being a better lover of people and saying im sorry when you need to is vital. Also lose the ageism. Both young and old matter. My biggest advice surround yourself with loving honest people unafraid to tell you when you messed up. Btw im l oking to be an assustant pastor. I have my masters but i am still teachable.

[@geraldpolmateer3255]

That was good advice. Working with animals is a business that involves animals that can get sick, hurt and can get dirty. All of us work at becoming holy and we do that by embracing Christ and getting rid of the idols in our life. The idols are mixed in with Christianity in our lives. A pastor much preach to we and not them. He must be growing. When I pastored I surrounded myself who were not "yes" men. They were men I was transparent with and they knew me. They could correct and encourage me. They helped me preach and do ministry better. That kind of transparency builds and people do not see leadership who are fake. Proverbs 12:1 says " . . .But he who hates reproof is stupid."

[@ncbible1575]

Pastoring a church in America - you better harden up as a pastor. And you better get your family hardened up. That said - it is the greatest privilege to teach God's word. It is a wonderful joy to see people not only fall in love with the Savior but also His word and begin to truly interact with it. Exegete the text and get out of the way.

[@danielg4785]

Needed this today.

[@KingVonAllegra]

Thank you Pastor. Great advice and teaching here

[@davidsarkar6668]

All thanks, praise, glory, honour and The Kingdom be to Jesus, forever and ever, Amen !

[@patotooonlineministry1084]

Hoping to watche here what the old pastors mistakes are too❤️❤️❤️

[@Bonnie-rr6gu]

Thanks You for this message I am a new paster

[@yolandacarrillo7157]

Excellent information

[@aibtools]

Seed, Feed, and Lead

[@kvzo789]

Pastor sir I have some doubts and want to get a clear answers from you 🙏 1) Now adays some pastor's/leaders have become very demanding let's put it straight... like salary, vehicle and etc....Is this right??? 2) The church vehicle are being used for their private works and for their kids duty, but maintenance is bore by the church..is this right??? 3) A pastor to be ordained as Reverend.Should the church bear all the expenses like the Gown, lunch for the ceremony?? Please reply Pastor sir 🙏

[@VikingMan44]

"Now adays some pastor's/leaders have become very demanding let's put it straight... like salary, vehicle and etc....Is this right???" The Bible says you cannot serve God and money. Yet pastors have served God FOR money for centuries. I personally don't think that is right. When someone is serving God in exchange for money, they are really just serving money.

[@kvzo789]

Good morning Pastor sir, thank you so much for sharing your views 🙏🤗

[@VikingMan44]

@@kvzo789 I'm no pastor. I once was something close to a pastor in small group contexts. But that ended a long time ago and I would never go back.

[@blaknbeauty1]

Very very very Good!!! 💯👍

[@technicalsavior2133]

Thank you sir

[@ThyHoneyNut]

I think the mistake pastors make is trying to sell a message, instead of telling the truth. We have become this place where people come to trying to find a positive uplift....when we should be out on the street trying to pull people out of darkness. When people see a cross hanging...they get resentful. But when you bring the cross to them, they get spooked

[@ryanclements2869]

Great content! I do have a question: what if the people do not want to be led?

[@RonKelmell]

Everybody wants 'leaders' that take them in the direction they are already going.

[@billmcmanaman4273]

Do you have any video on the Trinity... would like your honest answer about it...

[@minicoopertn]

What specific question/s do you have on the Trinity?

[@billmcmanaman4273]

Now I cannot remember the question, but many people believe there is a trinity \but God himself says I am one

[@minicoopertn]

@@billmcmanaman4273 Both are true. You have the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. All three together make up God but at the same time each member of the Trinity is 100% God. It is not 1/3 God or 300% God or 3 God's. The reason a lot of people get confused is due to the fact people are use to dealing with numbers with a value such as 1+1+1=3 or items with a physical properties such as size or weight so the math never works out. While each member of the Trinty is individually 100% God they each have a different role although they are in complete agreement with each other. No one member of the Trinity is any less powerful than another member even though there is an order of authority. In every aspect of God's abilities, character and power he is infinite. So God mathematics is not 1+1+1 but infinity + infinity + infinity = infinity. It does not matter if you take an individual member or all three together both are 100% God.

[@billmcmanaman4273]

@@minicoopertn Thanks for the input lets look at the time in the desert cloud by day pillar of fire at night, who do you say it was coming from God.

[@dgh5223]

Should a pastor message a member wondering why they posted 2 out of 3 singers singing in church on her own Facebook page? He was worried the one person may get hurt feelings not seeing their singing on my page. I’m not even friends with them! He said they may still see it since its public. Pastor didn’t care about my feelings of how I’m being criticized by him for not posting the other person singing. It made me very sad and upset. I took the videos off and haven’t been on Facebook since that day if thats the way I’m going to be treated for posting what I want.

[@philipbuckley759]

stop being a one man show.....get people to study and learn, not just sit, and listen...

[@LambofLordJesus]

We want to be loved and supported when we are weak , not by keep telling us we are guilty we are sinners , even I understand pastors means good

[@NLASMINISTRY]

Who's job is it to win people to Christ? Who's job is it to teach sound doctrine to equip the saints for the work of ministry?

[@tracybacani1]

I was at a viewing and brought food because they said there was going to be a potluck, and as soon I gave it to the greater&e right off the back, said bye. Everyone got done eating and all the members at together here I was sitting at the table alone the pastor can sat across from me ask me questions I was truful with him he got up left me and Saud he will be back he never came back sat with all the members. So I'm at a table all aline this was maybe my 5th time there. Not one person from the church said hi to me at all. I was heartbroken. I keep asking God why this had to happen to me ? So, on my way out after I put my plate in the trash 🗑 he gave me, that look like it. Hurry up, get out. I've seen that look before but never from a pastor. My friend died, and that was the only reason why I went to the viewing. I try to be quite sit aline in church but see I still alone . I did ask them why, but they took down my post . If my friend never died, she might sat next to me.? But she gone They should of told new ppl.about Bible study and more nut I was always turn away .

[@vinolind6671]

I hav a doubt. In my church, my pastor is expecting that every believer should take decision after getting a permission from him only. For example, a believer should ask a permission like, "can i join this new job pastor?", "Can i go for a trip?", "Can i get married this person", "can i go out of station for my job", "can i join this college" etc... Should I inform my each and every personal activities to him and get a permission from him? Is this necessary? My pastor is telling this to their believers. Please reply please.

[@petemccutchen3266]

If your pastor is telling you what job to take, who to marry, whether to go on vacation to Orlando, you are in a cult. Make sure to watch your daughters (and sons) around such pastors, because many of them use their position to sexually exploit the underage.

[@roberttrevino62800]

@@petemccutchen3266109% agreed

[@NunyaBizness-X]

Sounds like - relate to Moses as best as possible…..understand his heart when he interceded with God on their behalf

[@ogosmatt2498]

Let your yes be yes and no be no....

[@An-OracleSmith]

Its ironic how some folks don't see the wisdom being given.

[@msarilyn7677]

What if the new pastor has no predecessor ?

[@jt19933]

There will still always be comparison.

[@AllAboutHealthandFitness33]

Need to ensure they are living by the Word of God and not man made philosophies.

[@periphron]

If a pastor does not realize that his congregation is full of sinners, he has received a faulty education, is obviously not well versed with Scripture, and is likely not saved himself--sounds like a WTS graduate.

[@roberttrevino62800]

Amen

[@dfoster4234]

I had to look up WTS. And this right here is says it all to me. “REV. DR. CAROL BECHTEL”

[@philipbuckley759]

when will someone actually read, the Bible...

[@josefernandez-leon4024]

Great comment!

[@billyhestand1223]

I think there is an issue with how people look at pastors. To high of a peta stool, how do we lead people out of this mindset should be the question we answer. You can reverse all these things back on the body and create even more change.

[@Lightgeneration6446]

Can someone help me my pastor has recently became very strict with me and anything I could do he would rebuke me treats as a unbeliever or would get upset if I leave the church for any emergency reason He favors others and at first he used to be so nice would invite me places but just wouldn’t go with him so he became very cold towards me in private but in public he pretends to like me… An evangelist told me God wants to be a part of the ministry but recently I’ve been feeling like his trying to gives another man what God Ordained me to be in (Private) not public…. I truly didn’t want to be a hypocrite but it feels unfair to me he tells me his gonna train me and ignores me… I’m confused if it’s the pastor or God I truly am not trynna waste my time with a pastor that doesn’t want to train me I’m new to church is wrong for me to leave into another church is it a sin?

[@happyteacher7294]

I believe you. They all have respecter of persons

[@Gabriellecrio]

It’s not a sin to leave a church for another. Just put it before the LORD JESUS CHRIST. Try not to take offence or remain offended so that you can hear what God wants you to do.

[@RonKelmell]

My big mistake was in thinking the 'flock' had some Biblical background. Most 'Christians' are still trying to forgive their own sins, live a life they haven't got, and teach a Gospel they don't comprehend. They want local cultural enforcement, not discipleship. Take 2 Timothy 2 very, very seriously. By the way...seminary professors don't pastor churches because teaching ministers while receiving a denominational salary is a lot easier than being a real pastor in the private sector.

[@funkster2009]

are u a pastor?

[@anthonyjemison5016]

Ur so right. I don't know any 1 that has it all 2 gether thats why we go 2 church 2 try

[@universal-creator]

The most common mistake is adopting biblical beliefs that oppose and contradict Christ' s beliefs. Idolatry of the bible results

[@DannyTillotson]

We wouldn't know Christ's beliefs is it wasn't for the Bible. Therefore Biblical beliefs are Christ's beliefs and Jesus quoted Scriptures many times. He also resisted the temptation of the devil three times by quoting Scripture to him. The Bible says that: "For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart." - Hebrews 4:12 NIV God bless you brother. Stay strong to the Word of God 🙏❤️

[@philipbuckley759]

maybe it is time to have Biblical Church....it is not a one man show....from a Biblical point of view...which is almost completely ignored....literally.....worldwide.....1 Cor 14.26 What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up.

[@josefernandez-leon4024]

Philip Buckley Share your concern wholeheartedly.

[@CSUnger]

Agree completely. The modern iterations of both church and pastor no longer bear much resemblance to the original, that is, Biblical, idea.

[@marylamb6063]

You're correct. The modern church encourages passivity and disengagement.

[@kimberlyjackson4067]

The mistake is not knowing the truth about the Bible. The scripture speaks on pastors in Jeremiah 23. The scripture also speak about these preacher who have not been called by God, therefore they don't know the scriptures, calling Jesus Christ your savior.

[@msarilyn7677]

The other issue is the preachers who have been called by God, however they are backsliding.

[@johnblair765]

Biggest mistake...becoming/being a pastor in America !

[@JohnA-vi9qs]

Fear God

[@petemccutchen3266]

Biggest mistake: accepting a superstitious world view.

[@Shikuesi]

Ufology is that-a-way.

[@bioof4]

Biggest mistake: Thinking a belief in an atheistic worldview is somehow not faith-based.

[@CSUnger]

What if the modern Western definition of “pastor” that you are dealing with here is simply no longer Biblical? What if the context of “church” that you are defining “pastor” in is also no longer Biblical?

[@floopnoopian679]

Isn't the pastor a sinner themslef?

[@jgarrett1958]

Yes. We are.

[@kentholden8723]

They go to seminary believing they were called by God, thinking the seminary was given some sort of authority by God to say they've passed or failed.

[@kentholden8723]

@@davestuart1382 My friend, if you're not learning it from the Holy Ghost, what is it that you think you're learning?

[@tanzeelurrehman1985]

لأ أله ألأ ألله محمد ألرسول ألله صلی ألله علیه وسلم

[@AMChristian]

Repent and believe in Jesus! Jesus Christ is the Only Way! ✨🙏🏻

[@grayintheuk8021]

Thinking the supernatural world exists I would say is the most common mistake for new and old pastors to make.

[@jurneiadriayndeutschman7411]

Or a woman

[@ZacharyHamiltonMusic]

why am i watching this

[@davidhawley1132]

Pastors aren't priests. Do it as a team of equals.

[@vontelayharris6356]

This video only refer pastors as male as if women can't be pastors 🙄

[@dorothyday7749]

Exactly

[@iglesiamamqv]

No room for gender issues in the body of Christ, grow up

[@JP-ri2or]

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 1 Timothy 2:11-12

[@kimberlyking1486]

I stopped listening because it apprears the only pastors in this universe are male. I live in another world.

[@vontelayharris6356]

@@iglesiamamqv Then it would be a general message not based upon gender role. Based upon your message shows you're the one lack maturity...

[@titaniumsteel9114]

THE ROLE OF A PROTESTANT PASTOR VS A CATHOLIC PRIEST IN A CONDENSED FORM.. Bible says, for priest cannot make himself a priest. Pastors of protestants make themselves pastors. Protestant pastor is simply a false teacher. They may not be trying to teach false doctrine because many, if not most, of them are simply ignorant of the truth and desire to teach the truth. However, a Protestant pastor is nothing more than a false teacher and a leader of a false church. A priest, on the other hand, is a pastor. He is a shepherd. He is ordained by God. The same is not true of a Protestant pastor. Presbyterian perspective. The sacrament of communion is not as important in many Protestant churches (we only have communion once a month, which is typical of many Protestant churches). Protestant pastors generally also don't do things like hear confession (although the spiritual counseling they may give to members may come close in many instances.) The emphasis in Protestant churches is generally on preaching and teaching, and, perhaps to a lesser extent, being a spiritual leader for the church in terms of counseling. That's why in Presbyterian churches the pastor is referred to at times as a "teaching elder" or as a "minister of word and sacrament," "word" referring to teaching and preaching. Protestant pastors also have a lot of administrative responsibilities, including essentially fundraising for capital campaigns and annual pledges. The pastor also has to oversee associate pastors (if any), and employees/volunteers such as Sunday School teachers, youth ministry people, clerical and administrative staff. Also many Protestant churches have a lay board of deacons, or session of elders, which have greater or lesser powers of decision-making and responsibility, and the pastor has responsibility for overseeing them and essentially keeping them unified--although often such boards ultimately have more power than the pastor, including having the power to fire and hire the pastor. In summary, for better or worse, a Protestant pastor's job is a lot like being the CEO of a company, in additional to spiritual responsibilities. A priest has two primary functions -- to offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and to forgive sins. These two functions were given to the Apostles on Holy Thursday (the Mass) and in the Upper Room (Absolution). Anything a priest does apart from this is not essential, he may have a flock of his own in a parish or he may be a monk or a hermit, it does not matter. What matters is that he is ordained to offer the Sacrifice and to forgive sins. The Sacrament of Communion receiving Christ is the CENTER of the Catholicism. The Eucharist is the CENTER of our faith. What could be more important then eating the bread from heaven and getting the Grace of God that enters your body and soul and mind? The Priest in the is nothing like a CEO in a company. The Priest is the person who stands in for Christ and does his work here on earth. The Priest is who has authority to change regular bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ. The Priest is the one who has authority to forgive us our sins in the name of Christ. The Priest is the one who teaches the word not by his own interpretation but by the way that Christ taught it. The teaching comes straight from the mouth of Christ and his Apostles.

[@flamingrobin5957]

"THERE IS ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MAN JESUS CHRIST, HE IS THE ATONING SACRIFICE FOR OUR SINS" no priesthoold but JESUS in the Melchizedek order. there is no other mediator. jesus said also call no man "father" pope or papa becasue you have one father in heaven.

[@ПавелКохан]

Why you are so toxic?

[@ismaelmacias4858]

With all do respect. But no and I mean no one forgives sin but GOD himself. A Catholic priest is human just like ourselves and cannot forgive sin. That’s why Jesus Died on a cross to forgive us for our sins. No man can do that. God bless.

[@titaniumsteel9114]

@@ismaelmacias4858 OBJECTOR: I don’t see how the Catholic Church can teach that a priest can forgive sins. It’s against the Bible. The Psalmist, speaking to God, says in Psalm130:4, "But with you there is forgiveness." A man cannot forgive the sins of another person. The only sins a man can forgive are those against him directly. Jesus said we should forgive those who sin against us. But how can a priest, or any human being, forgive sins which are not against him directly. Only God can do that. CATHOLIC: You’re absolutely right. Only God can forgive sins. In Mark 2:1-12 we find what you are saying in the story of the healing of the paralytic. When Jesus saw the paralytic, he said to him, "Your sins are forgiven" (Mark 2:5). The scribes gave the same objection that you raised-that is, that only God can forgive sins. They asked, "Who can forgive sins except God alone?" And they were right. But notice how Jesus changes this later in the story. He performs the miracle of healing precisely to show that "the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" (Mark 2:10). So what was once only in heaven is now on earth because Jesus has the authority to forgive. OBJECTOR: Yes, but Jesus is God and therefore has the power to forgive. You see, that proves my point. Only Jesus can forgive sins because he is God. A human priest cannot. CATHOLIC: So you agree that there was once a man on earth who could forgive sins. It was the one who was fully God and fully man. And I assume that if Jesus Christ were on earth again, forgiveness of sins would be on earth again. OBJECTOR: Yes, but Jesus is now in heaven according to the Bible. So we can only find forgiveness in heaven with God-specifically with God’s Son, Jesus Christ. Jesus is our great high priest who intercedes for us with his Father, as it says in Hebrews 4:14 and 7:25. CATHOLIC: I agree that Jesus can forgive our sins because he is our great high priest. But the Catholic faith says that Jesus’ priesthood was also given to men so that they could continue his earthly work of forgiving sins. OBJECTOR: Where does the Bible say that? CATHOLIC: In John 20:19-23. Let me read it: "On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, ‘Peace be with you.’ When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." OBJECTOR: That’s an interesting passage, but it doesn’t say anything about Jesus giving his priesthood to men. I didn’t hear him say, "I make you priests." And even if he did make them priests, he didn’t give them the power to forgive sins. CATHOLIC: Then what do you think Jesus meant when he said in verse 23, "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained"? To me, that sounds like he is giving the apostles authority to forgive sins. OBJECTOR: He is giving them the authority to proclaim the gospel, which has the forgiveness of sins in it. The power to forgive is something he kept for himself. If sinners believe the gospel, they will receive forgiveness. CATHOLIC: You must have read John Calvin’s interpretation of John 20:19-23, because that is exactly what he says about Jesus’ words. As you know, John Calvin was the Protestant Reformer of Geneva, Switzerland, who broke away from the Catholic Church in the early 1530s. In 1536 he published his famous Institutes of the Christian Religion in which he identified himself clearly as a Protestant. He was convinced that the Catholic Church was corrupt. And one of its worst corruptions, according to Calvin, was the presumption of a priest forgiving sins. That power was something that Christ reserved exclusively for himself, Calvin said. OBJECTOR: I’ve never read John Calvin’s writings but it sounds like he was a pretty good thinker. He is absolutely right in thinking that Christ was authorizing the proclamation of the gospel and not the forgiveness of sins. CATHOLIC: Calvin was a very attentive interpreter of the Bible and paid close attention to the details of the text, but in this text I don’t think he paid enough attention. In verse 23 Jesus says, "You forgive" and "you retain," not "You proclaim forgiveness" or "You proclaim retention." It seems that Calvin couldn’t take verse 23 for what it really says because he was prejudiced against the Catholic doctrine. OBJECTOR: But you don’t know that. It’s not a very charitable judgment to say that he was prejudiced against the Catholic faith. CATHOLIC: You may be right, but I think I can safely infer from Calvin’s many writings that he hated Catholic teachings. Perhaps he thought he had good reasons because he had seen so many abuses of the sacrament of confession. Whatever his motivation may have been, it seems clear that he did not pay close enough attention to verse 23. On the other hand, consider the use of this text that the Catholic Church makes in its formula of absolution. OBJECTOR: What is a formula of absolution? CATHOLIC: It’s the words that a priest uses to confer or convey the forgiveness of Christ once a person has confessed his sins. This absolution is based directly on Jesus’ words in John 20:19-23. It says, "God, the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of his Son, has reconciled the world to himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sin, through the ministry of the Church. May God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen." OBJECTOR: I suppose any Christian would find those words beautiful, but I still don’t see how they are in the Bible or specifically in John 20:19-23. CATHOLIC: Consider this. The formula reminds us that reconciliation is the plan of the Father in heaven when it says, "God, the Father of mercies . . . has reconciled the world to himself." That is, the plan of salvation is not made up by the Church. The Church only proclaims what God has done. And further, this plan is accomplished "through the death and resurrection of his Son." OBJECTOR: I agree. God is the only Savior who in and through Christ’s death and resurrection has brought salvation into the world. But what does that have to do with a priest forgiving sin? CATHOLIC: Think with me further. The formula of absolution wishes peace on the sinner with the words, "May God give you pardon and peace." These words remind us of Jesus’ words in John 20:19 and 21, "Peace be with you." Jesus wished peace on his followers. He also conferred that peace on them by giving them the Holy Spirit. This is what it means in John 20: 22, "He breathed on them and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit.’" The formula states this important role of the Holy Spirit when it says that God "sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sin." The Holy Spirit is the active agent of bringing the forgiveness of Christ to sinners. OBJECTOR: Okay. I agree that the Holy Spirit plays an important role in applying the forgiveness of Christ to sinners, but again that action is something only God can do. I don’t see anywhere in John 20:19-23 where a man is given authority to forgive the way your formula of absolution says. CATHOLIC: Notice how in verse 21 Jesus says, "As the Father has sent me, so I send you." In other words, Jesus is giving his apostles the same authority that he received from his Father. Now what authority did Jesus receive from God the Father? We saw earlier, in Mark 2:10, that he had the authority to forgive sins. Jesus brought the power of forgiveness from heaven to earth. So now, in John 20:21, he is giving that same authority to his apostles. And he is explicit about what he is giving them, "Whoever’s sins you forgive, they are forgiven." OBJECTOR: Ah ha. That’s where the Catholic Church makes its fatal mistake. God the Father gave Jesus that authority because he is God too. But a human priest is not God. Even the Catholic doesn’t say that a priest is God. CATHOLIC: You’re right. A priest is not God, but the priest has the power to confer or convey the forgiveness of God-not by his own power but by the power that Christ conferred on his apostles that day recorded for us in John 20:19-23. OBJECTOR: Yes, but didn’t your formula of absolution have the priest saying, "I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit?" That sounds like it’s the priest who is doing the forgiving. CATHOLIC: Yes, that’s what the formula says, but it says that because the priest is acting in the place of Christ. A priest’s authority to convey forgiveness does not come from himself. It comes from Christ. By the power of the Holy Spirit, the priest stands in the place of Christ to declare the sinner forgiven. That is why the formula of absolution uses the pronoun I. The I is Christ speaking through the human priest. If Jesus had not come to earth, there would be no forgiveness on earth, and if he had not conferred on the apostles this ministry of reconciliation" (2 Cor. 5:18), we would have no forgiveness today. But we can thank God that Christ did indeed come and that he passed on his authority to the Church to reconcile sinners to God.

[@titaniumsteel9114]

@@flamingrobin5957 This verse, "... call no man FATHER ..." (Matt 23:9), is one of the most MISQUOTED, most TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT, and most MISUNDERSTOOD by Protestants in all of Holy Scripture. WHAT DOES THIS VERSE REALLY SAY? Jesus in Matt 23:9 says, "And call no one on earth your father; for one is your father, who is in heaven." The meaning of that verse is, 'no EARTHLY father must come before your HEAVENLY father'. This is shown in Matt 10:37 when He said, "He who loves FATHER or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me." If you back up to Matt 23:1, Jesus was actually addressing the CROWDS and His DISCIPLES. It is clear He spoke to two groups. If you jump to verse 8, where he said, "As for you (indicating a select group), do not be called 'Rabbi' (Rabbis are teachers, or the learned in Jewish law and the crowds mentioned in verse 1 certainly are not teachers, so He was addressing the disciples). You have but one teacher, and you are all brothers." (He called His disciples His "brothers" in many other Bible verses). A PARENT is called FATHER as in * Eph 6:4 and Col 3:21, "Fathers do not provoke your children to anger." * Ex 20:12, the 4th commandment, honor your FATHER and your mother. * In 1 Cor 4:14-16, Paul said, "I am writing you this not to shame you, but to admonish you as MY beloved CHILDREN. Even if you should have countless guides to Christ, yet you do not have many fathers, for I became your FATHER in CHRIST JESUS through the Gospel. Therefore, I urge you, be imitators of me." * Phil 1:10, "I appeal to you for MY CHILD, Onesimus, whose FATHER I have become in my imprisonment." * Phil 2:22, "... As CHILD serves FATHER ..." * Acts 7:2, and Act 22:1, "BRETHTEN and FATHERS hear ..." * Acts 13:17, "... people of Israel chose our FATHERS ..." * Rom 4:1-18, Abraham is called FATHER seven times in these verses. * Rom 9:10, "Isaac our FATHER..." * Heb 1:1, "... spoke in times past to the FATHERS, * 2 Peter 3:4, "...for since the FATHERS fell asleep,..." * 1 John 2:13, "I am writing to you, FATHERS, because you know him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have conquered the evil one." * Mal 1:6, "A son honors his FATHER ... if then I be a FATHER, where is my honor?' * Isa 22:21-22, "... and he shall be as a FATHER to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah. And I will lay the key of the house of David upon his shoulder; and he shall open and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open." These verses are a prefigurement of the papacy. * In John 6:49, Jesus Himself said, "Your FATHERS did eat manna in the wilderness and are dead." He said call no man your FATHER in Matt 23:9, and here He calls their ancestors FATHERS. Is this a conflict? How about in Luke14:26 where Jesus said, "If anyone comes to me and does not hate (the word 'hate', at the time meant to 'love less') his FATHER ...." Here Jesus said the word FATHER again. If you take the literal meaning of FATHER the same as some take it in Matt 23:9, then you could only conclude that Jesus said, "You have to love Me more than you love My Father in heaven." I am sure that is not the meaning of Luke 14:26. Wouldn't you agree? A PRIEST is a SPIRITUAL Father as your BLOOD father is your NATURAL father ... *Judges 17:10, "Stay with me, Micha said to him. Be Father and Priest to me ..." *Judges 18:19, "Come with us and be our Father and Priest." I would say Holy Scripture itself corrects the misconceptions and mistranslations of Matt 23:9, wouldn't you? What do most people call their male parent? Sire? Dad? Pop? Mister? No, most call him FATHER. Do you sin every time you call your male parent FATHER?

[@VikingMan44]

They became pastors. That was their mistake.

[@VikingMan44]

@Ryan Is English not your first language? The first mistake that all pastors make is becoming a pastor.

[@VikingMan44]

​@Ryan Oh you won't like what I have to say at all then. You sure you want to ask that question? Knowledge can be a burden. All human beings who act in the capacity of clergy of any kind have usurped the seat of Christ. If we accept that the Bible is God's word(something which you do, but I do not), then it has much to say on this subject which all clergy must patently ignore in order to do what they do. "But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. The greatest among you will be your servant." - Jesus Christ, via the book of Matthew, chapter 23 When 1 man assumes a title, stands on a stage and presumes to lead others spiritually, he is usurping the seat of Christ. We have 1 father. 1 Shepherd. 1 Lord. 1 Teacher. When a man asks others to receive spiritual direction from him, he has presumed that he is no longer my brother, but my superior. In his pride, he has forgotten that he is as flawed as I am. And thus absolutely everything that happens down stream of that dynamic is infected with the yeast of the Pharisee. When you set yourself up as the one others should look to for wisdom, you have become a son of Satan. You have asked others to place faith in your words that should be reserved for God alone. "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. It shall not be so among you." - Jesus Christ, via the book of Matthew, chapter 20 If your church org chart looks like every other human org chart on earth, be it military/government/corporate, with 1 man or a counsel of men on top, associates at varying levels of depth underneath to validate and represent the leader's authority to the congregation and to conduct business, then you are explicitly violating what Christ directed. What does your org chart look like? "No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money." - Jesus Christ, via the book of Matthew, chapter 6 When a man serves God for a paycheck, he believes that he can serve God and money. Yet Jesus declares you can't serve 2 masters. 1 will be despised. When the pastor takes the pay check, God is despised. If he despised the paycheck, he wouldn’t take it. Are you getting a paycheck? Then your “service to God” is actually just service to money. If there is a conflict between the interests of your paycheck and the interests of your people, the paycheck is going to win. "Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you should also wash one another's feet." - Jesus Christ, via the book of John, chapter 13 "It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables." - Peter, via the book of Acts, chapter 6 Jesus tells the disciples to wash each other's feet, then a couple months later, Peter says it wouldn't be right for the apostles to wait on tables. The church thus took a left turn on a path outlined by Satan. When Jesus washed their feet, he was teaching them a lesson that they did not learn. They chose rather to follow the paradigm of the Pharisees, who enjoyed the recognition and social status of being the one who stood on a stage to teach others. What social status is there in waiting on tables? The exact same status that Jesus assumed. The servant. But that was not what the apostles were interested in. Now if you have read this far, take these ideas, and go read John chapter 10 about "The Good Shepherd". There is 1 good shepherd. 1 additional thought not based on logic and scripture, but rather fruit. I once followed men like you for a long, long time. When your ideas grew and were ready to bare fruit, I found that the fruit they bore was not the fruit of God's kingdom. Following men like you almost killed me. And the only reason I lived was because I abandoned most of what you believe and chose to walk a different path.

[@VikingMan44]

@Ryan So to be critical of clergy equals "bashing the church". Nice scare crow! Does that work often for you in course of discussing serious ideas? I was not bashing the church, I was bashing clergy. There is an important difference between the two. If you would care to answer my actual criticisms instead of misrepresenting them, perhaps we could have a fruitful discussion. The church is worthy of her own criticisms of course. But I said nothing of those.

[@VikingMan44]

@Ryan Clearly not something you are going to be able to respond to. It would require you to read first.

[@VikingMan44]

@Ryan I don't have a question. It's more a statement. Modern pastors are sons of Satan, just like their forefathers the Pharisees. Had you lived in Christ's day, you would have approved him being nailed to the cross. For full details, see my post above.