What happened to Horses? | Fallout Lore

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NEW INFORMATION (source is fallout wiki)
Joshua Sawyer stated during an October 2020 livestream that horses were never considered for implementation in Fallout: New Vegas, as they did not seem appropriate.
On January 24, 2013, Fandom user "StylesV13" added a quote from a personal email claiming to be from a correspondence with developer Chris Avellone. In the correspondence, Avellone claims that the appearance of horses in All Roads was "an error (no one noticed it until too late)." He also says that Raul Tejada originally mentioned horses in one of his stories, but this was cut "because we didn't want to imply horses still existed." The contents of the email have never been independently verified. While a quoted portion of the correspondence has existed in this article since 2013, a screenshot of the email did not surface until 2014, when it was uploaded by a different, unrelated user onto Gamepedia. Comments on the file suggest it was taken from the now-defunct Bethesda forums, but a link to the original post or thread has not survived.
When asked about the StylesV13 email regarding horses in September 2020, developer Joshua Sawyer commented that he was not immediately familiar with the horses appearing as an error in All Roads, the concept of horses being completely extinct in Fallout, or Chris Avellone expressing it. He had "no idea" about this information, and that if he ever knew, it was "lost like dust in the wind."
Chris Avellone spoke more about the lack of horses in Fallout Apocrypha in 2022. Although he did not explicitly verify the StylesV13 email, Avellone expanded upon why horses do not appear for other reasons: horses would be difficult to implement in terms of game mechanics and would likely introduce countless technical issues that would need to be resolved during development. In-universe, the presence of horses would have wide-reaching implications for the technology of the wasteland that are not accounted for elsewhere. Additionally, the alternative route of not implementing horses but implying that they exist would disappoint players and serve little purpose other than what-ifs. Avellone concluded by saying that horses may exist somewhere in the Fallout world, frozen or perhaps in a vault, but appearing in-game as functional mounts would have impacts that could not be budgeted or accounted for.
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[@Melanittanigra]

The horse stuff in the GECK is left over from Oblivion, the GECK and the TES Construction Kit are basically the same software and they're on the same engine.

[@Synonymous101]

Thanks, there was a pinned comment saying this, but it seems to have vanished so I'm pinning your comment instead👍

[@Melanittanigra]

@@Synonymous101 thanks, love your videos

[@zackhicks5320]

@Richard Burke you ever played FO4? LMAO plenty of cats

[@zackhicks5320]

@@TheDevian they’re holograms of cats

[@isthattrue1083]

@@zackhicks5320 No there are cats all over Fallout 4. They're not holograms and you can kill them.

[@folkishappalachian6827]

"Where did all the horses go?" "Why is there so much adhesive everywhere in fallout" 🤔

[@zombiefanatic4833]

NOOOO

[@TheEmpireDabsBack]

Tell me why that made me think of Paula Cole's "Where Have All the Cowboys Gone?" 😂

[@DVankeuren]

why is there still prewar packaged food around after 200 years? You might say because it was so jacked up with crap that it was immortal. I would say, maybe, but people would have found it all and eaten it by now. And what is will all the settlements being pig sty's? After 200 years people are gonna have at least a little self respect.

[@blehh_mae]

​@@DVankeuren the reason the settlements are so terrible is because, since the apocalypse happened they pretty much went all the way back to square one in terms of building and society etc, itd probably take a few hundred or thousand years to be able to get back to where they were before the war, i mean you cant just expect a group of builders to build because they know how, they need a reliable source of materials, and in that time, reliable protection, etc, and also there isnt a guarantee people will share their experience or even care about it after it all starts, so i mean, yeah

[@codywrazidlo9716]

Oh no...

[@theskieshavefallen8408]

Todd took them out cause he couldn't sell us Horse Armor.

[@adolfgaming1761]

Underrated comment

[@VisonsofFalseTruths]

Wasnt the horse armor like 99¢? I bought that. Don’t get the meme-rage about it decades later.

[@aceskeletonne7446]

@@VisonsofFalseTruths because it was unheard of at the time, and it set a bad precedent we know today with micro dlcs

[@grammysworld5449]

@@aceskeletonne7446 I Actually blame 2K and EA for that.. you don't NEED horse armor and it doesn't change your experience.. In those games, you HAD to spend (especially madden ultimate team) or you would get thrashed even by the cpu

[@nuclearglory0363]

Actually he managed to sell us horse power armor

[@zyourzgrandzmaz]

"welcome to Fallout here's your laser rifle and power armour. but we can't figure out how to use bicycles"

[@BabzaiWWP]

or the motorbikes just laying around everywhere

[@slitherthewizardofwither6959]

Technology limit really

[@tentedkarma7465]

You ever road a 200 year old bike in place that has everything trying to kill you

[@jackalenterprisesofohio]

@@tentedkarma7465 well they could ride them in the settlements. Just like they do in the British villages in the T.V.

[@jackalenterprisesofohio]

@@tentedkarma7465 also its not like they could build more

[@pp-nx1ck]

I'm honestly surprised that, to this day, no one has added horses by modding. It seems like such a perfect New Vegas mod.

[@crylec6534]

I would say impossible, but because of the frontier bringing drivable cars into the game, anything is possible.

[@pp-nx1ck]

​@@crylec6534 I mean, there's a mod that adds rideable brahmin, yao guai and such. I would think porting over an oblivion horse model or something and adding the functionality of the rideable mod would be feasible.

[@crylec6534]

@@pp-nx1ck yeah issue with that is Bethesda's strict rule about distribution of mods that uses other game's assets even if its theirs.

[@pp-nx1ck]

@@crylec6534 That applies to their own games? I didn't realize that. Copyright is such a pain in the ass sometimes.

[@crylec6534]

@@SwedishEmpire1700 I don't even know if a mod like that is possible.

[@TheQuyman]

I remember a cool fan made consepet of mutated horses with 6 legs called slipniers

[@mordymountains1096]

Sleipnirs?

[@The-Deadite]

Like Odin's horse, thats pretty badass but it would render exploring null...

[@drunkhermann8584]

@@The-Deadite I don't think so. The only problem I see Is that the player would rather flee from enemies than fight them.

[@Enclavelad]

Sounds cool

[@WolffangLightwood]

Ah yes, the adorable slippies, owligator drew them I think on tumblr

[@bobtheboss5523]

If sheep and cows live i think horses can

[@Synonymous101]

We can still hope

[@tacoscatsandmangos512]

@@Nighterlev that still means that cows didn't just die out, they just transformed. Meaning a horse could transform into something like a horse with 6 legs

[@war.neverchanges]

@@Nighterlev the adapted to the nuclear environment, they didnt die out. Meaning they still lived.

[@blackhand1235]

@@tacoscatsandmangos512 Horses with 8 legs and they called Sleipner. :p

[@cuntpuncherino]

You call that living?

[@____________838]

See also the Great Khan’s good ending slide: “During the Battle of Hoover Dam, the Great Khans quickly evacuated Red Rock Canyon and headed north and east into the plains of Wyoming. There, they reconnected with the Followers of the Apocalypse and rebuilt their strength. Bolstered by ancient knowledge of governance, economics, and transportation, they carved a mighty empire out of the ruins of the Northwest.” Now... I don’t know what transportation technology you’d expect to find in Wyoming, but... It seems like horses, or horse and carriage would be a good bet.

[@a.monach7602]

Maybe they finally made some motorcycles to match their attire

[@____________838]

@@a.monach7602 While an option, I’m just not sure there’s that sort of industry in Wyoming, ya dig?

[@sheepewe4505]

This could pretty much be considered canon as the book you give to the Khans to convince them to stay an independent tribe is called "Pretty, Pretty Horsies: A History of the Mongol Empire" and Wyoming is known for its herds of wild mustangs... The Great Khan Empire would be an awesome setting for another Fallout game!

[@xptaco2298]

@@____________838 even though this isn't canon since it's a mod for a grand strategy game. But in the mod you can create makeshift motorcycles

[@____________838]

@@xptaco2298 That’s the “good” ending slide for the Great Khans in New Vegas. Which I suppose is of questionable canonicity.

[@conorlemon4417]

"Didn't ya hear a whole lot of solders dressed in snow suits came outta Canada with wit some kinda one headed bramin rode threw my hometown and wrecked the place somethin awful barely made it outta there alive!" -Some junkie

[@lumbago4203]

Nuclear RCMP sounds cool, I want a Canadian fallout now.

[@crackhead6017]

@@lumbago4203 rcmp doesnt sound great even inna video game. Im canadian.

[@lumbago4203]

@@crackhead6017 I’m also Canadian. I just want a Fallout in Canada is what I was going for.

[@Totemparadox]

@@lumbago4203 And exactly how would a Fallout in Canada differ from Fallout in the US? Except for less guns, less NCR Rangers/Desert Rangers, less power armor, etc.

[@ThatGuy-eu2vt]

@@Totemparadox in the fallout universe the USA has annexed basically all of north america

[@BeanMartinVEVO]

Didn’t they release a bunch of wild mustangs in some of the fields surrounding Chernobyl just to study them and they found out that they basically thrived in their environment?

[@Synonymous101]

The horses enjoyed spending time inside abandoned buildings and their population even doubled. Not too sure what the long term effects of being there will cause them though, but they do seem to be doing fine 😊

[@BeanMartinVEVO]

@@Synonymous101 you’re right that we don’t know the long term effects but my point was that if their population doubled, then it’s not implausible that something similar couldn’t happens in areas in the north and south west of the US in the fallout universe. They could even have different types of horses, like in Red Dead Redemption Undead Nightmare, but I do agree that if they implement them, it is lore friendly. Perhaps if they ever have a game or DLC set in Florida or Kentucky there could be a small farm where horses are still being kept alive by ghouls even if it set within the first 100 years after the great war

[@Zen-sx5io]

@@BeanMartinVEVO Now you're giving me hope, I was also thinking of a future fallout game where you encountered a Khan Empire that has tamed horses, or a mission where you help them find the elusive horses.

[@groundbird4904]

@@Zen-sx5io maybe they already have horses, but the elusive “eight-legged” horse of legend, capable of outrunning all others is what you need to find

[@quin_Von_drhauhnat-BMCstudioCO]

@@groundbird4904 exactly like the horse Odin rides in Norse mythology, But never mind that, the bottom line is that they need to bring horses and or something mountable, not having this just comes of as lazy and stupid

[@EllieCollie]

You know that I think horses could be alive in the Midwest actually.

[@elijahlawson4365]

Or the south lots of horses in the south especialy kentucky due to the derby and all lots of lotsa horses there

[@Kfkangaroo88963]

There are no horses in fallout tactics, that's takes place in the midwest

[@dragon22214]

@@Kfkangaroo88963 not cannon also terrible game

[@Kfkangaroo88963]

@@dragon22214 I know, but you really think there are horses there?

[@glasss-o-water5186]

@@Kfkangaroo88963 As a midwesterner, yes. Yes i do. It may not seem like it but here Indiana there’s a shitton of horses. Wouldn’t be surprising to see some survived and mutated

[@andreibaciu7518]

"Why aren't there any horses in Fallout?" Because the engine can't handle them lol

[@generichumanname2420]

it could with ease there are Horses in Oblivion and it is the same engine, okay it's the same Game kinda..

[@JoshuaKevinPerry]

probably bc they didn't want to code fighting on horseback. shooting specifically

[@bongwaterbaptist]

@@JoshuaKevinPerry it would be awful to have vehicles in fallout.

[@IzayFrmMars100]

@@bongwaterbaptist no?

[@32gigs96]

@@IzayFrmMars100 yes it would be. It’s about exploration and vehicles take away from that as you would miss nooks and crannies. The only way they wouldn’t would be if a huge and sparsely covered map was created. Otherwise it takes away from the experience

[@J_A_Niss]

If the Institute could bring Gorilas, I think Bethesda could bring horses back.

[@DN_123]

It's kind of disappointing that you never get to see the legion or khans riding horses. That would've been sick and terrifying.

[@europaaugust9598]

The ncr had horses in lore I think

[@diegobrando1100]

@@europaaugust9598 the fact that we saw them in a cannon comic pretty much cements that they exist. He said it was in a drug addled flashback but other things in the flashback are shown to be true so I don’t know why he would hallucinate realistic horses and insert them into a scenario just randomly.

[@adrianaslund8605]

Historically the romans were more centered around heavy infantry. But its not like Ceasar's legion is very accurate to the Romans. They would be much more organized and have bigger shields. They're more of a light infantry army. Which makes sense when guns exist.

[@WardenWolf]

My take: horses most certainly would have survived. There are packs of wild horses in North America to this day. Horses are faster and have greater endurance than a deathclaw. Donkeys, on the other hand, likely would not have survived. They would have been easy prey for deathclaws.

[@luisitobardajibenitez8013]

if brahmin survived Donkey's probably did too

[@WardenWolf]

@@luisitobardajibenitez8013 This depends on many things. People survived outside the vaults. This is known. Some were turned into ghouls, but some remained unchanged. And somewhere in between those extremes you had the mutated animals. You can definitely imagine ghoul farmers caring for these animals and protecting them. And, as they proved to be hardier and larger than regular cattle, they became more mainstream. Domestication is thus what saved brahmin, and, to a lesser extent, horses (likely wild horses still exist). Donkeys, though, would not have much of a place in the post-apocalyptic wasteland. A donkey rider couldn't outrun predators, and their few advantages aren't really enough to outweigh that.

[@mariobadia4553]

Prince how come we don't see any wild boys those things are extremely adaptable will eat anything

[@Tatwinus]

Horses were introduced to America in the 1500s. They became wild after the great hunts of the 18th-19th century removed competition. They are not native animals and would probably be easy prey for mutated animals with native advantages.

[@unavela]

Even if they weren't faster than deathclaws, there must be regions where deathclaws don't inhabit and they can live (unless Bethesda just as always copypastes them in there too) in my head cannon there are horses but not inside the old borders of the US

[@sokumotanaka9271]

"Ah yes that deep deep lore. "Why dont horses exist?" "Idk we didn't think they could survive." "But sloths did?" Bethesda: *Flees to the cut content dimension*

[@sillybob9689]

Not enough horsepower.

[@p2pselfpuppet796]

Believe it or not, as long as Sloths stay on top of the tree, it will have greater survivability than a horse

[@unoriginalperson72]

@@p2pselfpuppet796 sloths should be extinct, in fallout and in real life, they are disgusting

[@HandleDisliker]

@p2pselfpuppet796 :P I guess that if humanity's survival depends on sloths being on trees then humans should pay attention to them.

[@TheDriftingspliff420]

@@p2pselfpuppet796 ryde sloths in trees.

[@TannerThePuppyGamer]

now i'm wonder why vault tec didn't have a vault with some Horses in it

[@LucyWest370]

Maybe they did

[@TannerThePuppyGamer]

@@LucyWest370 maybe but where is it

[@LucyWest370]

@@TannerThePuppyGamer who knows, it could be in Alaska, Michigan, Louisiana, North Dakota.

[@TannerThePuppyGamer]

@@LucyWest370 yea i hope we get a game in one of those regions tho

[@LucyWest370]

@@TannerThePuppyGamer ye Alaska’s great

[@wayneigoe6722]

The guy in the cathedral could be just be quoting Shakespeare. King Richard, Act V: "A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse"

[@maxxor-overworldhero6730]

Thought so too.

[@pilotj9467]

I really do hope the writers make a lore-friendly reason to bring horses back into Fallout. Maybe they could say something like, someone brought horses back to the east and west coasts from Canada or Mexico, obviously this would be some time after the events of Fallout 4.

[@TheMelancholicWriter]

It’s not exactly difficult. The only legit reason we’ve never seen them is due to gameplay and engine limitations. Considering how big the American continent is there are bound to be plenty of horses out there. Not to mention that horses are incredibly valuable. They’re good for farm work and transportation, and without technology like vehicles they’d be crucial to travel. So it makes no sense whatsoever that they’d actually go extinct based upon their value.

[@TheTendermen]

I’d say the best in-universe would be they went extinct around the coastal states where the main games are place, being on the coast they would have been bombed more heavily, and it’s not like Horses were as common as they used to be among the common-people, but some groups survived in mid-states where the bomb probably didn’t hit as hard.

[@SirThopas3]

@@TheMelancholicWriter I think it makes more sense that horses are mostly extinct in the United States, with the exception of some pocket populations in isolated areas. The years before the bombs was heavily mechanized, with mass inflation and resource scarcity. They weren't being used for farmwork, the majority of people (including farmers) probably couldn't support the upkeep of a horse (why bother feeding and housing a horse during such hard economic times when you can get a robot tractor or whatever), meaning that there were probably already a limited number of horses, and these would be show horses or racehorses in the hands of the elite.

[@TheMelancholicWriter]

@@SirThopas3 I see where you’re coming from. However there’s one major issue that clashes with your theory. At the time of the bombs it cost thousands of dollars just for somebody to gas up their vehicle. Very few people actually drove at that point, and I can’t see farmers being able to legitimately afford the gas to operate their tractors. In terms of the robots we’ve never really seen any at the various old farms and houses scattered around the games. We know due to programming that they’d be stuck at the properties like Codsworth, yet we never see any or their deactivated husks. The feeding and upkeep of working horses is also a lot cheaper than you’d expect. Usually when you hear about the huge costs of horses it’s in reference to show or race horses, which are carefully trained and maintained for optimal performance and quality. Unfortunately I kinda know that as my family has been involved in the Harness Racing Industry here in NZ, though I personally hate it and how the horses can be treated. But yeah, you’ve got to take breed into account and whether they’re a galloper, trotter, or a pacer. Ultimately though, even if you’re right, there would more than likely be an eventual population boom due to their value and people recognising it, orchestrating a lot of breeding.

[@SirThopas3]

@@TheMelancholicWriter That makes sense. I've grown up around horses, but these were horses specifically trained to do dressage and absolutely nothing else. They were sooo delicate and, well, pretty dumb honestly, I would not expect them to survive 1 day in a post-apocalyptic world. I don't have experience with working horses, or horses that do not have panic attacks the moment they see a plastic bag. I could definitely see them surviving in the southwest and Mexico, there pre-War numbers would probably be much higher there than anywhere else due to the high emphasis of horses in those cultures.

[@grayeaglej]

This is not a Lore issue, this mostly a Bethes-Tec issue. (Edit) What is far more to the point, and proves its more a Bethes-Tec issue, is not "Where are the Horses" but instead "Where are the BICYCLES?"

[@ranja2486]

It is mentioned in the Fallout bible that horses, at least most breeds of them, are extinct, and Avellone later said that the horse in All Roads comic was a art mistake.

[@grayeaglej]

@@ranja2486 Which makes no sense because Bethesda was able to put horses into the Elder Scrolls games, and there are plenty of vehicles shown in all the other Fallout games, yet in Fallout 3 and 4 there are no rideable Brahmin, Brahmin carts, Motorcycles, Cars, Trucks, or even Bicycles. As I said, this is not a Lore issue, this is a Bethesda issue.

[@Quakkauq]

@@grayeaglej probably because of the small maps and the landscape not built around being able to use mounts

[@LucyWest370]

@@grayeaglej but why would you want to? It would make the game too easy, also, it seems boring

[@grayeaglej]

@@LucyWest370 The original play areas were meant to be several times larger than they ended up being, especially with New Vegas making Mounts a very useful addition and Fast Travel a Necessity. There are still remnants in the out of bounds areas that would have doubled the playable area, and it was supposed to be even bigger than that originally, however the Gambrio Engine and the PS3/Xbox360 hardware simply could not handle such large maps. Fo3 dealt with it by significantly cutting down the playable area to a tiny fraction then hacking it into smaller cells separated by load zones using the metro tunnels. Even Fo4 and 76 had to be cut down because again thier maps were too large for the engine and the Console hardware to handle. Thats why most times you are in a vehicle, such as the boat going to Far Harbor, the Caravan to Zion Canyon, or the Vertibird to the Enclave base to meet President Eden, you are "asleep" or "unconscious" and its a load zone rather than real time travel.

[@Ugimara-Imokrasa]

I just like how having to be of pornstar status has to do with the history of horse lore in fallout.

[@TheDriftingspliff420]

How do get porn star status 🤔 in the fallout games haha.

[@fredblues7175]

There may be a lore reason, but the real reason is another 'Not like Skyrim' excuse. Mutated horses, feral and domesticated might be fun.

[@EmblemSnake]

They expect me to believe horses died out while cats survived?!?!?!

[@colonagray2454]

Im mostly disappointed no cats mutated into large preditors. C'mon man super mutant cats.

[@absentspaghetti4527]

@@colonagray2454 Might want to look into Metro 2033 series lore ;)

[@juangilnogara6045]

And dogs, coyotes, crows...

[@dawarboss3709]

And sheep and cows somehow survived, albeit as mutated monsters

[@compatriot852]

I'm just going to assume that they weren't in because of technical issues/Bethesda being lazy. It doesn't make any sense why they don't exist as they already do in the wild and even in nuclear areas, such as Chernobyl. Kinda goofy how we have groups like the Khans yet no horses, motorcycles, etc.

[@deborahkobayashithelonewan8225]

how would their be technical issues if they have games on basically the same engine with horses?

[@TheMelancholicWriter]

@@deborahkobayashithelonewan8225 Because it requires additional coding, map design, and combat mechanics. Technical limitations are literally the only reason horses aren’t around. They wouldn’t have worked in the old games, and the BGS sequels would have struggled. FO4 could have probably coped with the new mode of travel, however it’d also require the game to load the map a hell of a lot faster than usual. Keep in mind that Oblivion and Skyrim had very crap horse mechanics. They couldn’t go very fast and were incapable of letting the player fight while riding. And this is simply down to engine limitations :)

[@nathangriffin9318]

There is a tribe called the Eighty-Eights, who worship the I-88, and ride motorcycles

[@hankscorpion]

@@TheMelancholicWriter SHADOWMERE...was nigh invincible! but useless to ride

[@beaudangles147]

Not necessarily lazy, I don't think horses would've fit in the game like most everyday things

[@sgoodso1]

“If they add horses it should be lore friendly, like the four horses of the apocalypse.”

[@DampWetstew]

My head canon was that surviving horses were all eaten, either by human(oids) or the new super predators, Yao Gui, Death Claws, Casadores, ect. Hell, horses originally evolved in North America, and were driven extinct by early Native Americans. It's why escaped European horses adapted to well to the American plains, it was the exact environment they evolved for.

[@elijahlawson4365]

Or there just not were the player is id say the kentucky wastes are teeming whith wild horses decended from the kentucky derby horses

[@DVankeuren]

@@elijahlawson4365 people would have heard of stuff like that though.

[@DVankeuren]

This actually makes sense. The new apex predators are very good at their jobs.

[@mariobadia4553]

@@elijahlawson4365 yeah it's not like Kentucky would have been affected that much by the Duke since there's no reason to Target that place

[@animehuntress9018]

​@@elijahlawson4365 Thoroughbred horses are very high maintenance. Hoof care and nutrition as well as general care they aren't very hardy when it comes to raw survivability. Some quarter horses, Arabians, Arabian mixes, and general bred horses are more likely. Some Native American breads would work so long as they are closer to the Native bred version than the show version. Nevada makes more sense since they have a strong population of Mustangs and feral donkeys. Florida has there own feral horses, Arizona, and few other places have Mustangs or their own version of feral horses and donkeys. My issue is more that Deer and Cows exist when Donkeys and those Feral horses don't. Cows have similar issues, and most especially milk cows which Brahmin seem to be based off of. Your best bet would be cow breeds like the Texas long horn or oxen or some African cow breeds, but absolutely NOT Milk cows.

[@Huy-G-Le]

Questions: What happens to the horses? Answer:All exported to Mongolia.

[@TheScienceguy77]

It would have been cool to have robo-horses just like the robo-dogs. I'm sure it would have been a lot harder to implement horses into Fallout 3/NV than it ever would have been for TES considering the amount of high explosives though. I can just picture the game crashing in thousands of ways just because you are on a horse.

[@red_seamus8119]

Remember when there was a car in Fallout 2 that allowed for quicker transportation?

[@exodore2000]

Oh I remembe, the trunk detached from mine and I lost all my stuff.

[@zacharygreene1979]

And in tactics you could have dune buggies, humvees, apc's and fucking tanks. And it had the coolest looking power armor of all the Fallout games. People talk shit about that game but alot of elements from it should be put in future games.

[@red_seamus8119]

@@zacharygreene1979 I liked tactics, it was a cool spinoff series that I wish got more attention. It was less rpg heavy and leaned more into a rts type of game which is why I think the core fallout fan base didn't like it. There's also a lot of conjecture about if it's cannon and or not but literally the only thing you have to do to make it Cannon is have the brotherhood mention Chicago in any way and then we can have fuckin sweet cool dune buggies like Mad Max

[@zacharygreene1979]

@@red_seamus8119 yes, I enjoyed it alot even though it wasn't really an RPG in the traditional fallout style. As far as it not being cannon, it's way more cannon than 76 will ever be in my mind. I've been playing Fallout since 1997, I think I have more say on what's cannon than Bethesda lol. In the next Fallout I'd like to see things from tactics like the brotherhood advanced power armor they made using tech stolen from the enclave, the vindicator minigun, vehicles, bring back the intelligent talking deathclaws and intelligent super mutants. Letting you play as something other than a human. Don't adopt the play style but alot of the elements would fit really good in a new fallout.

[@AnnaMorkin]

Cars are actually extremely bad in the wasteland since they paint a massive target on your head so people probably purposely travel on foot to avoid a swarm of raiders murdering them some miles down

[@trygveblacktiger597]

"The developer dosent think horses could survive" Aka developers where way to lazy.

[@travisbishop782]

No doubt.

[@____________838]

I’d like to think there’s still horses in the Great Plains, both the ones were familiar with, and ghoul horses. I can imagine both feral and non-feral. With the feral ghoul-horses taking on a love of flesh, and the non-feral ones still eating grass and allowing humans to break/ride them. And then perhaps a scale model robotic horse that’s based off the Giddyup Buttercup toy. I figure that there may even be the occasional two-headed horse, akin to Brahmin and radstags.

[@mattthedoormat]

I don't think I like the idea of horses being extinct in Fallout. I can understand why they decided to go with that. It's a way to show how wrecked and ruined this world has become. But at the same time, I believe it would also make since if horses did end up surviving the Great War and continued to live on after. There could've been places in the US that were left relatively undamaged (like a farm in the countryside) and horses could've resided there and continued to live and reproduce. I would've preferred that they were still alive but it's not my decision, and at the end of the day, It doesn't affect my interest in Fallout's lore. Though, I have heard that the horses are a part of a running joke that Chris Avellone has a hatred for animals. That's kinda funny.

[@jackalenterprisesofohio]

Yeah like do you _really_ think any one would nuclear bomb the least populated state.... atleast once or twice....

[@lufsolitaire5351]

So deer, elk, cattle/oxen, bighorns survived but horses didn’t? I can understand cats and dogs as they’re medium generalized predators but in FO, if you look at it environmentally there are far too many keystone predators and secondary consumers and too few primary consumers for a functioning ecosystem. Like how do those decent sized communities of Deathclaws support themselves? Even if we add people to that list the average wastelander is likely malnourished and won’t provide much of a meal and there aren’t enough people to eat to support quarry junction/deathclaw sanctuary/promontory. Same with far harbor, you’re telling me there are enough people/radstags to go around to support the abundance of super-predators like the Fogcrawlers, giant hermit crabs, Mirelurk kings, Anglers, Gulpers, regular mirelurks, wolves, etc?

[@Jordan64852]

@@lufsolitaire5351 if I remember right cats were so supposed to be almost or completely extinct due to hunting from humans; horses idk tho I feel like they should be in the game even if you can’t ride them

[@colonagray2454]

Horses are way more adaptable than cows too. They take care of each other too. They are probably out there in the wild mountains or plains somewhere.

[@Metsugolden]

Apparently in the Comic book "The Demons of Chance" which was a part of the collector's edition of New Vegas they show NCR soldiers riding horses.

[@Saccillia]

FINALLY SOMEONE IS ASKING THE REAL QUESTIONS!!! WE GOT MUTATED COWS BUT NO HORSES? having them would be an amazing mount!! Not even in new vegas!! This made me so insane

[@P41ma1]

Lol just imagine if you ever ask the developers why there hasn't been a horse in any game yet. And they just give a simple answer, we haven't thought about that.

[@jordan115v4]

I've always assumed that horses and stuff probably died off over time, due to mutation, humans hunting them to extinction, or were killed from big predators like deathclaws

[@Synonymous101]

I can get behind the mutations changing them into something else and them technically no longer being a horse/donkey, but as for being hunted by humans and other predators, why have other animals such as Brahmin and Bighorns avoided the same fate? Humans keep them around because they have use so why not do the same with horses?

[@jordan115v4]

@@Synonymous101 idk, maybe since there was a lot less of them compared to the large amount of cattle across the all the usa, rhe areas in game had lost their horses to reasons. There could be a few pockets of surviving horses in texas for the southeastern states where they weren't kill or mutated. Or maybe there was a great horse war between them and the ncr, as the horses used machine guns and sword to protect their mutant babies, just a thought.

[@Synonymous101]

@@jordan115v4 Mutant horses using machine guns and swords to fight the NCR! that's the DLC I've always wanted!

[@SuperMrHiggins]

Pretty much. Could be something ridiculous. Deathclaws absolutely love the taste of horses and for some reason the smell of death claws reminds horses of their mother.

[@internetperson335]

@@SuperMrHiggins fingers crossed that it's non of them

[@wolfmantheimpaler]

I don't really buy Chris Avellone's explanation for why there's no horses, unless they specifically say it in one of the games, especially the main series, what he said shouldn't be considered cannon

[@PRchris13]

Bethesda: Horses won’t survived But cows, dogs, cats, monkeys, etc did Huh 🤔 yeah right cause horses are the easiest to get rid off

[@kagancox3210]

*sloths in west virginia

[@timothyharris1125]

Beavers, foxes, chickens, lizards, worms oh and Bats, dont forget the bats

[@marklineberger3542]

Gonna mod in some cliff racers

[@Spongebrain97]

I have the idea that some feral horses survived in the empty western states of Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming. And in the next Fallout game somebody says there were reports that the Great Khans who migrated out of New Vegas rediscovered horses and have become horse lords

[@bradthebreadstick]

Real question is why no one rides Brahman they obviously can carry someone's weight

[@Destroyer_V0]

Mostly cause traders use em to carry supplies. Not themselves for some dumb reason.

[@captainbongwater7790]

Me at 9AM: I’m gonna be productive today! Me at 5PM: *H O R S E*

[@aaron_431]

Personally I would love a new fallout game that has a western type of feeling like with NV, perhaps Texas? There could be a vault where they got a cloning machine being worked on and vials of uncontaminated animal DNA in there to repopulate the irradiated wasteland with wildlife. Maybe it could have been broken into and you can go on quests to find preserved vials of DNA for it, maybe one of them being for horses? Perhaps a faction could have gotten it up and running and did a few test trials leading to a handful or even a single horse that you can eventually get to own. Perhaps as to not re-introduce all these animals to the world so we can keep all the classic mutants and whatnot it will end with the machine being destroyed or something. Idk.

[@YataTheFifteenth]

Fallout: New Yeehaw

[@travisbishop782]

Texas should be the next place fallout takes place in.

[@greystoke8234]

Yeah there’s actually horses in Texas and Mexico in fallout lore

[@Yoshikarter1]

The movement of radstags often reminds me of horses. They gallop, rear up, and kick with their hind legs similar to horses. Of course, deer and elk can perform most of those things as well.

[@mrcheesetaters6880]

I just wish we could lead our own caravan through the wastes, riding a Brahmin into battle with my trusty minigun, and more friends than a depressive sniper and a robot with ptsd.

[@redred3511]

That would honestly be the hottest shit and if that’s a mod I might just buy the game again on PC just to install it

[@NoInfoAvail]

Ghoul Horses, BAH! I want the Ghoul Whales that were hinted at years ago!

[@Spongebrain97]

I remember theres a line in the Fallout 4 DPC Nuka World where when you go to that old west area you can hear a raider say something like "what was a horse anyways? Some kind of big dog?"

[@renaigh]

a Ghoul-Horse would've been an interesting Wild Wasteland encounter.

[@shiny1556]

I feel like horses would of been planned in NV but with them being under a huge crunch it never happened. It is likely that the only reason it doesn’t exist in 4 is because most of the map is fairly urban or incredibly dangerous/radioactive so it wouldn’t make much sense to need a horse. Of course they could be extinct but if something like a dog can be a ghoul and a crab can be a giant maneater I wouldn’t doubt they are still out in the Great Plains

[@QuestQuenchers]

The actual reason why horses aren't in fallout cause they are so damn hard to animate. Take a look at skyrim's horses haha Great video and new sub! keep up the great work!

[@QuillStroke]

I think another lore friendly way would be to have an area that isn't touched by the radiation that they managed to survive. Like the American Mid-west which is their natural habitat here in the states.

[@janetplanet4595]

Fallout mounts would be hella dope not gonna lie. A. Why havent they used cattle to pull rusted out cars as carriages. B. Why hasn't anyone even tried to remake a car?

[@Aczie042]

Actually they did remake cars in Fallout 2, and Fallout Tactics. My assumption as to why they don't use vehicles in a later games is because of the engine of the newer games.

[@xijinpingsfavoritehemorrho1328]

Gas refining is a pretty damn involved, complex process that would be incredibly dangerous to figure out and do small scale. Youre literally boiling oil in a column to separate it into diesel, gas, etc. Not to mention the many many additives that go in a modern engines oil to prevent wear. When cars and refining were in their infancy you needed a man whose sole job was maintaining your car, and 10000 miles was a feat. one of the main reasons it was a rich mans toy. You need rubber hoses, tons of wiring, wire also being hard to make on a cottage industry basis, rubber nearly impossible without being adjacent to a rubber plantation. Where would spare parts youd constantly need due to the destroyed and craggy road infrastructure come from? A bearing is incredibly hard to make without large scale industry, a cv axle? How would you make one? How would you cast engine blocks? Whose got the machining tooling to drill the piston bores and make pistons that fit them?

[@Xegethra]

I don't think the writers these days would care about breaking the lore.

[@DVankeuren]

they probably don't know what lore is.

[@SuperMrHiggins]

Unfortunately, very, very accurate.

[@evangould5677]

I was expecting ceaser's legion to have some type of horse

[@thomassomatic6016]

I wish you could read books in Fallout like you can in Elder Scrolls.

[@Synonymous101]

So do I!

[@quotenpunk279]

Reminds me of the "There are no wolfes on Fenris" debate in the Warhammer 40K-Community :D

[@glendogdangler]

Perhaps horses are more important to the aliens than we thought? The mothership we ride has a whole section dedicated to them, and they are scavenging the wasteland for something in another section of the ship. Maybe other alien ships are also searching for and taking horses from the wasteland?

[@kirillheart4158]

Sir, can you, please, explain about fallout 3 timeline...what happened and when...is there any canon walkthrough...all i know is that it all happened before january 1 2278...blya pizdets

[@Synonymous101]

That's an interesting video idea, I'll see what I can do!

[@HeavyMettaloid]

They're all in Fallout: Equestria, that's what happened

[@BabzaiWWP]

underrated post

[@NoMorePlz]

Was searching for more lore videos, found this. Gained a subscriber.

[@Synonymous101]

That's great, glad to know you're enjoying them 👍

[@dossiebigham6916]

See i don't think living horses could exist but you do have various pictures images possibly recordings of them on old hollow tapes and you also have those Giddy up buttercups which i know are toys and couldn't support a full grown persons weight or anything but maybe use them as sort of a standing example someone could make the closest thing being a robotic approximation of a horse. Hell people could probably really sup up some left over sentry bot parts or something an make transport out of it. i mean their heavy weapons bots surely they can hold the weight of a person.

[@Synonymous101]

Or a synthetic horse? The Institute has made birds and gorillas, why not horses...🤔

[@dossiebigham6916]

@@Synonymous101 I assume they captured some crows and got DNA to make the fake ones just like with the Gen 3s are all in a way based off Shaun/Father's DNA and the guerrilla well.. there are living ones in Nuka-World maybe there where some that where being experimented on in Boston or something? Idk if Boston has a zoo. Thats why i said a robotic horse

[@Synonymous101]

@@dossiebigham6916 I'm sure the institute could put together a team and find horse DNA if they really wanted to

[@dossiebigham6916]

@@Synonymous101 Yeah if any bones that remain have usable DNA i do think just making a mechanical equivalent would be simpler for them and anyone else for that matter.

[@DVankeuren]

were all the tapes hollow, or just yours :)

[@quinnzyker6521]

They flew off and said “so long. And thanks for all the hey”

[@boochie-yj7un]

The Dead Horses came from a place called Dead Horse Point. They probably don’t know anything of horses.

[@charlesmartel777xx]

But they made weapons that looked like horses

[@boochie-yj7un]

@@charlesmartel777xx that I can’t explain with anything but maybe old hitching posts, even then it’s a stretch, and I don’t think they’d carve their weapons, but anything is possible.

[@lurksnitchtongue8986]

@@charlesmartel777xxthey probably just saw pictures of horses at Dead Horse Point

[@boochie-yj7un]

@Hunter Smith not much, they do look really good though. I don’t know much about carving and the such.

[@seanfroeb4233]

With the show being out and Cooper being revealed to have been an adept horse rider pre war I would love to see some more horses in season 2

[@superequinox4185]

I think the main problem with horses in fallout is that every fallout game has taken place in a state that horse wouldn't be found in. California and Nevada are too arid and dry, the Capitol Wasteland and massachusetts are too urban and West Virginia is too mountainous. Horses are native to grassy plains which probably exist in fallout, but the states those plains are found in don't have enough going on in them to make for a good fallout game. Like who wants an Oklahoma fallout game? Or Ohio?

[@JohnGlenn2327]

Well it could be like fallout 1 that didn’t have one giant city to base itself around it could be the a game like that could include multiple city’s that you could get to by horses or after someone fixing up one motorcycles

[@xijinpingsfavoritehemorrho1328]

Lol fallout New Gary, Indiana

[@diswazzi1683]

Hopefully we get to ride choppers in Fallout 5

[@venomsigintarma9444]

If I recall correctly, early artwork for the Legion in development/pre-development actually depicted Legion soldiers riding horses in the camps. That being said, I think it was merely concept artwork, though their uniforms/gear looked similar if not identical to what they wore in the actual game. Note: I could be wrong about the source of the artwork. I think they fully removed all mentions of living/existing horses at the New Vegas point to reduce work load (Coming up with 'fun mutations for animals' can be tiring? Can't have normal looking anything in fallout!) and to keep people from questioning why they didn't exist in FO 1 (As a living NPC), 2, and 3 and avoid another 'Horse DLC' mishap. So instead of giving taking the nugget of proof they coulda lived from FO1, they decided to write them off completely as them being another casualty of the great war, even though they've been shown to be quite the survivors as proven by domestic horses returning to their wild roots quite easily when released. At this point, they have no excuse or reason to add them in their eyes. Why add them now? They've said it themselves, they don't care what other people have written in lore 20+ years ago for the franchise they're making bank off of. I mostly leave it up to the 'New Crew', as it seemed when NV was being developed, they wanted to try -something- to include them, because it was Obsidian who was making it and not Bethesda proper, and Bethesda hit the final nail in the coffin?

[@hayberdasher8625]

I had never considered this question, but it is an intriguing one. Very interesting and good video!

[@melodye14]

This one is especially interesting bc it never crossed my mind while playing but you're right that it would have made sense for New Canaan and West Virginia.

[@Ciara_Foxx]

Alot of great points, but 1 thing. "Philly" was in the slang lexicon during the late 80s and early 90s; around the time of Fallout's creation. It's use was synonymous with "fly girl", "honey" or "chickenhead" in otherwords. A term meant to simplify the value of women. Not that this destroys any of your arguments, just that I think that particular choice was one made because of the language at the time. Had fallout 1 been made in 2010 "sidechick" or something like that could have easily taken that spot.

[@kendo2377]

Bethesda shits on TES and FO lore all the time. Before FO4 cats were supposed to be extinct, but there they are. Bethesda isn't looking to 'add' anything, but if they ever bring back horses guaranteed it will be a Creation Club thing and not in a base game. Why give the players something when you can charge them for it?

[@TheMelancholicWriter]

But how do you know they were really “extinct”? The one source on that is House and he’s only got the New Vegas area as ‘proof’. He doesn’t know anything about the rest of the continent.

[@nailuj2979]

@@TheMelancholicWriter people really on the bethesda hate, its very likely that the east coast has cats and mr.house doesn't know, how is he supposed to know, he got the day the nukes were going to go off by a day

[@warclock3224]

yknow the cats in commonwealth are most probably institute synths they're too clean and unradiated

[@kendo2377]

@@nailuj2979 Okay, the Institute made the cats. WHY? Like everything else the Institute retards do, it doesn't make any sense. Bethesda writers and devs are shit and everyone knows it.

[@immasword]

just because cats go extinct on west coast in no way means they go extinct on the east coast as well plus there was at least one cat you can find in a vault so cats could have survived due to their owners taking them with them into the vaults.

[@TheEmpireDabsBack]

Head canon for any creature not seen in the post-apocalypse is they're either incredibly sensitive to the increase in radiation and weren't able to adapt or mutate in any positive way, and also, Super Mutants, Deathclaws or any other abomination hunting them into extinction.

[@europaaugust9598]

Horses are not sensitive to radiation they survived Chernobyl radiation and also there are horses in fallout all roads so yeah

[@diabeticjesus87]

Ol' Painless is also in FO3, found in the Republic of Dave. I found it in his safe once, but up until that point I had only seen the Knee Capper in his safe, so maybe it's just a chance find.

[@sex_man_3788]

Honestly, if there is a Fallout game that is set in the centre of the United States in the great plains then I think horses would be found

[@ThtSunbreaker]

I'd like to imagine that they have mutated into a higher species, kinda like the deathclaws in I think it's fallout 2 and are just hiding away in some abandoned vault

[@europaaugust9598]

Deathclaws were fev

[@noahnewsome4789]

The secret to life: faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more caps

[@spartanseth7392]

“Horses would not of survived” lmao what. A horse would be very beneficial to have. If some farmers kept their cows safe (long enough for them to mutate into Brahmin) than I’m pretty sure they could keep the horses safe too. Even if the horses were on there own, if cows could of somehow survived, I’m damn sure horses would too. They would of been able to outrun most of the average threats they would encounter. If horses would not of survived, than frankly cows would not of either. Or chickens. (IIRC there are mentions of them in fallout 1 and 2. Obvs they are there in FO4) As a side note, if horses are ever added (which I think would be a much appreciated retcon) they should be nicknamed “Radstallions” or something of that sort. Imagine if you could get a horse, then give it armor (not the horse armor crap from oblivion. You could craft/buy armor that would affect it. Like the dog armor from FO4, but actually functional.) even give it some saddlebags to increase your carry capacity. Just imagine doing the fight on Hoover dam but your riding on horseback as you gun down legionaries (or NCR, if your a clown.)

[@Teadon86]

Horses in the fallout universe went extinct a century or so after the great war.

[@Synonymous101]

Yup, that was covered in the video 👍

[@Teadon86]

@@Synonymous101 Yes. I find it strange they did because there's wild horse and sturdier breeds. Or why not ye ol' radiation made them superstrong apex Hunter. Odd they just wrote off a species that would have many uses for surviving humans.

[@Synonymous101]

@@Teadon86 I know right! It just doesn't make sense! There's so many different breeds out there, at least one of them should have survived.

[@Teadon86]

@@Synonymous101 Not only that. The surviving military would instantly acquire any horse for both hauling supplies and soldiers. I guess they simply went the ol' lazy rout to save time and money by avoiding another rendered asset.

[@Synonymous101]

@@Teadon86 couldn't agree more!

[@iwantudead34]

There are wild horses in the outer banks of NC, I think they would have a pretty good chance of surviving considering the remote location but still having connections to the mainland, plus they swim so I think Bethesda is just being lazy because their horse physics would destroy the pace of any of their fallout games

[@CaptainCiph3r]

I honestly think they could bring them back and just say they imported them from the heartlands where they run wild, and it just took a few hundred years for people to find them again

[@All-Fur-Coat_No-Trousers]

Truly excellent content man. Going down the list of your videos has been great 👍

[@sunnyboi3867]

I feel if they bring horses back, they'll have to be a core element in the game. I can definitely see this happening if they do a Fallout in the great plains or northwest or Wyoming. This way, the impact is limited to that game, just like being able to shout in Skyrim.

[@joldomines4005]

I’m still kinda surprised cats survived the war but horses couldn’t.

[@Synonymous101]

I could be wrong when I say this, but didn't cats survive the war because there was a vault filled with them? If that is right, they could also do the same with horses 😂

[@joldomines4005]

@@Synonymous101 oh so that’s why they seem so untouched by radiation. And yes you are right now that I remember

[@LucyWest370]

I think some of the kids might’ve smuggled pets into the vault during the war

[@____________838]

There’s no definitive reason for cats in FO4. For all we know, they’re all gen3 synths. That would at least explain why they’re in the Boston Commonwealth.

[@LucyWest370]

@@____________838 I think there is only one confirmed real cat in the commonwealth, the one from vault 81.

[@moggtheboss3087]

They added all of these crazy enemies for fallout 76 that admittedly really don’t make much sense and yet they miss out the horse, it would’ve made the most sense as the map is very large in that game and fast travelling is basically the only way to get around, which costs you money, it’s ridiculous.

[@A_Moustached_Sock]

Lore friendly way to reintroduce not only horses but other flora and fauna of times past? The Nursery. The location from the cancelled Fallout 3 Project Van Buren. This location was meant to house a lot of plants and animals in order to preserve as much nature as possible in the case of nuclear holocaust. Granted this would mean having to bring in ideas from a cancelled game, but that was already done as a lot of the major plot points and factions from New Vegas are indeed from Van Buren.

[@cicerothenekoknightplaysall]

Huh strange my copy of fallout new Vegas for the ps3 still has Raul talk about the horses

[@Synonymous101]

Really? That's strange...

[@cicerothenekoknightplaysall]

@@Synonymous101 yeah huh maby not all the games were patched?

[@Synonymous101]

@@cicerothenekoknightplaysall maybe, I think I'll dig around and see what comes up 👌

[@cicerothenekoknightplaysall]

@@Synonymous101iv only had it happen once so maby its in a specific place were the dialog is not blocked i honestly don't know if i can trigger it again 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@Synonymous101]

@@cicerothenekoknightplaysall do you remember where it happened?

[@WarNvrChanges]

Since Brahmin (mutated cattle) exist in the Fallout universe after the Great War I see no reason why Horses or at least a mutated version of horses wouldn’t exist as well.

[@jessyleger7114]

Fingers crossed for a Fallout Texas that lets you use Horses. Maybe even mutant variants.

[@iamfergo]

One of the best Fallout KZbinrs there is! The commentary is top class!

[@Synonymous101]

Thanks! 😁👍

[@beckkiley7088]

The dead horses call themselves that because they’re from dead horse point in the grand canyon

[@GhostCryProductions]

Why is it called Dead Horse Point, then?

[@jeromebreton2764]

Its a pre War place

[@beckkiley7088]

GhostCryProductions Thats it’s IRL name. if you look up dead horse point national park you’ll find it on Google. Idk why they called it tho tho

[@maximaldinotrap]

@@beckkiley7088 A lot of horses died there perhaps?

[@memes-px7wi]

Well newzealand may be the only survivor of the great war. So, Horse's may exist there.

[@PaladinRhombus]

I've always have had the thought of giant birds being used as horses like the chocobo of finally fantasy

[@Synonymous101]

A giant mutated chicken perhaps?

[@PaladinRhombus]

Or another type of bird depending on the area of the new game. Having another way of traveling and just for immersion reason would be interesting. The concept of giant rideable birds doesn't sound that crazy compared to alot of other stuff in fallout.

[@maosama3695]

A carnivore horse with retractable elongated necks. Imagine getting stomped on repeatedly then you get munched on by basically teeth especialized in grinding while still conscious.

[@MrGiffmoney]

It would be a pretty tight quest in the next fallout game to find a animal cryo vault or lab and snag a horse, i think it would improve fallout quite a bit,

[@2fun55]

I think the only reason horses do not exist in Fallout is because Bethesda didn't want to have it too similar to The Elder Scrolls, considering they are on the same engine.

[@acekirito210]

They could add horses in the next game. I remember watching something about how in the nuka world dlc there was a machine that could create creatures like the gator claw and other things, so they could use that and say someone decided to create horses.

[@ben-chan420]

You know, something just as bothersome as the lack of horses is the lack of bikes/pedal powered transportation. You'd think that with the resource crisis prewar that bicycles would be a popular option for somebody who can't afford a shiny new nuclear powered car.

[@dominicanti3180]

Is it just me or would a mutant spider in fallout be cool

[@Synonymous101]

Cool is one word for it, terrifying comes to my mind 😅

[@georgebush7010]

There is a lore reosan for that, that being that spiders cant make webs after being irritated (at least irl)

[@ASCARNAZ]

Lore friendly way to introduce horses? One word: Aliens

[@GhostCryProductions]

Or... cloning?

[@OlNineToes]

Or synthesizing. They made a damn gorilla!

[@teoteous]

Another one of the biggest possible signs that an apocalypse happened is that people almost completely forgotten to use bicycles.

[@departmentoftheeruseanroya9106]

How about Synth Horses? The institute could easily create synth horses if they could engineer gorillas... Perhaps they could create some and set them loose, eventually spreading around the wasteland.