What happened to mountainsides during Helene's extreme rains (30 inches or more)?

[@Agent.99]

That is my road. I live 1.38 miles east of the mudslide, as the crow flies, just off the right edge of your screen. Those were my neighbors, my church friends, my fire dept. It has been a deeply traumatic and devastating event for the community. That fireman who died, died alongside his nephew, who was also trying to rescue people. 11 members of one extended family were lost. The last body was recovered two days ago. SAR continues in other areas. People further south below that slide had bodies in their yards. My workman escaped with his mother and sister with their very lives. So much death that’s not reflected in the official numbers yet. And this is just one area. The sheer number of small towns and communities that had rockslides, mudslides, and flooding, is hard to wrap your mind around. Literally spanning hundreds of miles from eastern Tennessee and throughout western NC, with flooding all the way east in Charlotte. And from Florida’s big bend to Georgia, South Carolina, up to Virginia. No one understands how WIDESPREAD the devastation is and how unusual and severe, unless you’re there. I appreciate this analysis very much. It helps me understand the dynamics of the geography where I am and has me evaluating my property in a new way.

[@ECKOArt.Psychic.Energy.Artist]

There are many people trying to share the info with others so your stories get attention and you get more support. Truthstreammedia channel on KZbin is doing a documentary on the situation. You may want to share info with them, or watch it. My sister is in SC and she is fine, but she told me about your region or I would not have known. Bless you!

[@DanHelfrichGP]

my heart is heavy for you after this crushing blow to your community. I wish you the best getting through the trauma you are facing.

[@drrobertdawson1899]

I'm in SUWANNEE County FLORIDA....the storm hit us and put everyone out of power for a week, tree's and wires everywhere,roofs and parts of roofs fences are thrown everywhere......that was a BAD STORM....then South Florida Got it Last...Lots Of DAMAGE Everywhere......

[@englishruraldoggynerd]

I can’t imagine how you and your community are reeling. But one thing I know is that you get knocked down, you get up and you carry on. The fireman, his nephew and I’m sure yet uncounted and perhaps unknown numbers of other people have died helping others. In the UK there is a special medal for non military heroism during peacetime. I hope that, in time these people get commemorated in a special way by being posthumously awarded the American equivalent.

[@brianstreck4061]

This is how you make society better. Spreading knowledge.

[@peterlecraw8301]

I've been driving in WNC delivering supplies and setting up starlinks. Entire hillsides have had all their trees toppled, many trees are entirely stripped of their leaves and on one particular hillside I saw the trees stripped down to telephone poles. Every creek has mud and silt, every bridge has a pile of debris next to it. The churches feel like field hospitals in a war zone, power is spotty, cell service is nonexistant, and next week the temps are plummeting to close to freezing. Dozens of bridges are gone, it's a crapshoot if you're trying to actually move across rivers. The situation on the ground in WNC is a literal hellscape. The depth and breadth of the damage sustained is virtually impossible to comprehend. Thank you for this video.

[@TheGeoModels]

thanks for watching and sharing your experience. I study these things and still can’t believe what it looks like. I hope we can make real progress towards “back to normal” but have to admit many things won’t ever be the same.

[@1949LA-ARCH]

Thanks for your explanation on this topic. 😊

[@PippiLongstockings-ps8jd]

WE need God ❤️ THINK GOD 🙏

[@Jennifermcintyre]

Man. This is just beyond most people’s comprehension. Thank you for sharing this and helping these poor people 😢

[@missd369]

I saw a photo showing a group using pack mules to get supplies out to people because the roads have been destroyed.

[@silentrage5425]

I don't think people really comprehend the destruction to Western North Carolina. I live just south of Asheville, on the scale we got lucky here. The stream near my house went from maybe 2 or 3 feet across and just a few inches deep to a raging 30 feet wide and more than 15 feet deep. There was so much power behind that water that it pushed the culvert pipe out from under the road. The nearest big river to me is the French Broad River. It wasn't 10 feet over flood stage. It was 10 feet over the previous record flood. People are claiming that the "smell of death" isn't hanging in the air. I would invite them to sit on my porch and try to have a glass of tea or cup of coffee. I'm worried now because the stores are running out of food. I went to the store today to get a jar of mayonnaise. Not only were they out of mayo, they were out of fresh meat, no dairy, no cleaning supplies, no dog or cat food, no can goods, there weren't even any scented candles. I lived in Florida for nearly 30 years, and the only storm that came close to this would have been Charlie in 2004. Even with Charlie, they were able to clear the roads in a couple of days. Here, a lot of the roads are just gone.

[@penniecurrie2424]

Thank u for saying this someone wrote on u tube well we had a hurricane also othen than Asheville well they nobody ever had anything like this that I have seen and I am almost 80 years old the sw mountain were hir with torrential rain hurricane,mud slides flooding so many live list homes nothing compare lord help these people

[@erikhaack4123]

Intentional.

[@robertunderwood1011]

@@erikhaack4123 Really? By who?

[@bobbafett1849]

​@@erikhaack4123moron

[@ShalomShalom-d5c]

@@robertunderwood1011really? You dont kno by now ?

[@hopeblume1558]

Ty for explaining this. I’ve not seen anyone explain the mechanics of how this happened. Very informative and much appreciated.

[@TheGeoModels]

yeah I’ll talk about it more. it’s all about the saturation. if soil is wet enough it’s a fine line between mushy solid and high density liquid.

[@sterntaler64]

​@@TheGeoModels I don't know about the Appalachians but here in the Alps, the underground needs to be considered too. Very dangerous are layers of clay (esp. "Flysch") below the soil and rocky ledges (mesozoic limestone and younger sandstone). Saturation turns the clay layer into a kind of 🛝 for the heavy layers above. (See "rockslide Arth Goldau). 🙂

[@RogueWave2030]

Yes indeed, much appreciated.

[@brothernorb8586]

Most interesting, the flat spots already created in the distant past where people build.

[@beyondEV]

If you search for "Illgraben" you get the correct impression of the destructive power of a debris flow in a mountain channel. Many probably associate "debris flow" rather with a picture of a flash flood in flatter terrain, with mainly wooden debris. The Illgraben always had massive debris flows (historic timespan). These days you have the massive concrete barriers, maintaining a balance, which prevent the channel from scouring the banks and moving around. Before that, he had a habit to eat villages.

[@billmalvey4746]

I'm a geologist as well and I've been trying to explain to people how the topography in that region amplified the terrible affect of Helene and how that contrasts to Milton making landfall in crossing the essentially a flat landscape. Great video well done. And is that an RC plane I see in the background if so I'm another RC flying geologist

[@TheGeoModels]

yep...lots of potential energy in these parts. that old Tundra behind me hasn't flown in a while...I got into the some of the micros that are more front yard friendly. I need to get it up and running again!

[@cumberlandquiltchic1]

Im in WNC. The town im in is In macon county . We are in a “bowl”. The eye came over us ..we were spared and I feel survivors guilt. None of it makes sense. Except..since day one- a sense of community and doing what we can.

[@thystaff742]

I assumed most people would understand this cause it's basic highschool physics. Plus those mountains retain a lot of water in general.

[@cumberlandquiltchic1]

@thystaff742 Look up macon county nc and the last few years how it’s been an ongoing effort to allow building in the flood plains. Weeks before, it was still current events. Going forward- unless someone interjects-? You have to live here. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Do you think the building in other areas happened overnight?

[@crystalthehermitess]

How often do hurricanes speed up hundreds of miles inland? Because hurricanes in East Tennessee and WNC are akin to blizzards in south Florida.

[@SnowyOwlPrepper]

In 2019 I wrote a report about potential issues resulting from use changes in a 145 square mile area in Tennessee. It was a call to action I handed to our senator that a modern USGS investigation was needed. The last time one was done was about 1930. In the town at the mouth of the river, flooding was the major cause for loss in this town’s history. Rechanalization of the river in the town put historical important structures at risk. During this Helene event the river went back to the historical channel causing loss of property again. 6000 feet of relief between the headwaters and the mouth. The destruction of lives and property upstream was consistent with the widespread losses in this county bordering with North Carolina. Needless to say the study was not conducted. In my research for past floods I found descriptions of waterspouts forming on the surface of a river then dumping it on the slopes adjacent to the river where torrential rains were falling. The boulders in the past debris flows are a testament to the energy released in these large events. I wonder how many of these hydrologic basins are not being understood because of reasons that are just as dangerous.

[@forestjohnson7474]

I would love to read your report. I prep myself, now more than ever I'm glade I do.

[@Nunyah_Bidness]

You bring up some good points with your comments but there are a few things missing that I'd like to ask about if you have the time to answer. First off, what was it you meant to say in your opening sentence or what did you mean by "..potential issues resulting from use changes.." what is "use"? Also, what specific town are you referring to and what river? When was the "rechanelization" project done to said river? Finally, in the account of "water spouts forming...then dumping it on the slopes.." which you came across while researching, what is "it" they were referring to that was dumped on the slopes?

[@dtrahn1218]

@@Nunyah_Bidness He's probably referring to changes made to the natural stream channels during construction of roads, homes, businesses. etc. Zoning officials and planners call each type of development/construction a "use." Traditionally, floodplains have been filled and developed, stream channels (which are often naturally broad in the valleys of mountain terrain) narrowed and straightened, and land cleared. This all makes the uses more susceptible to catastrophic events since the velocity of the water is increased by channelization, flood storage potential decreased by the fill and the ground cover lost leads to faster erosion/less absorption during events. People don't want to hear this because the ultimate solution is to limit development in these areas (steep slopes, floodplains and watercourse buffers). If development in this location is like mountainous development in our location, you have long-term locals in older housing stock in the lowlands and second homeowners and retirees up on the mountain sides for the views and privacy. As you can imagine, due to the terrain, development potential is already limited but would be further limited by restrictions necessary to avoid destruction like this (e.g., putting the mountaintops into conserved parkland & prohibiting development in watercourse buffers and floodplains) so it doesn't happen. The streams here - which have been modified by human activity over the decades - resumed their natural planforms (wider and in previous locations) during a recent event (Hurricane Irene) - or where not possible carved new channels. Many streamside cottages were lost and a whole main street area destroyed. They have since increased the flood storage capacity above the town center that was destroyed. People tend to forget why that extra capacity was added though, and within a generation or two, start redeveloping where they shouldn't.

[@ssbf1095]

At Chimney Rock, the river moved about 60 yards away from its former channel and they're going to try and move it back, so they can rebuild.

[@My-blooming-garden24]

The Interstate 40W from Haywood County through the mountain has been a treacherous road and should never have been built. In 1971 I was returning from Tennessee back to Asheville. We heard a loud roar and to my right came the mountain slide with boulders and dirt. It hit a semi in the right lane as I was in left. The semi hit me and pushed me into a huge boulder, knocking me on my top and pushing us a football field length on our top. Thank God no serious injuries. The only thing left not damaged on my car was the Ndrive train. My Dad and friend came to pick us up and near the gorge traveling 40 E, the other side of the mountain slid and jumped the median knocking out the windows and windshield. I have not given the horror details of these encounters but I can tell you I40 was never traveled by me for 25 years and I will NEVER travel if it has been raining. The old timers tried to tell them the rock was not stable and sure enough, the amount of slides has continued. Keep tearing these mountains down and they will continue to allow storms and damage as seen now. All my life in Asheville we knew our mountains would protect us, but humans cut roads through and built home on stilts, etc. Mother Nature will take revenge!

[@nottim1646]

Seriously your videos are a fantastic resource for understanding the Appalachian geology. Thank you for sharing your perspective and insight on these processes! Very very interesting.

[@TheGeoModels]

Glad you found it useful!

[@Becca-zd9nh]

This is the first time I’ve seen one of your videos. It is so well done! I appreciate how you present the info on screen and the matter of fact way you talked me (someone with no knowledge of geology or geographical landscapes) through it. Thanks for the help in understanding what happened, and why some people were spared and others were not.

[@jkeelsnc]

I grew up in Black Mountain and my mother still lives in Swannanoa. Fortunately, she did not lose her house. Growing up no one ever talked about this level of flooding or debris flows. When I was an adult I learned about the 1916 floods but nothing about debris flows were mentioned even then. Not even our elderly neighbors from the area ever mentioned anything like this. I always had concerns about landslides on steep slopes and flooding along creeks and rivers which did happen occasionally but nothing that compares to this. I hope that the state and counties get involved in preventing any rebuilding or construction in the areas that have been wiped out indefinitely. It appears to me that the full extent of these events are often forgotten within 3 or 4 generations and then we are back to “business as usual”. A point needs to be made to keep the record of Helene active and refreshed in the minds of people in the region for generations. It must not be forgotten. The loss of life must be far worse than is commonly known given that people are describing the smell of death outside near these effected areas. I don’t live in WNC anymore. I suppose I’ll never go back now. The economy will be ruined for quite some time and many small and back roads that go into remote coves and valleys may be gone forever. A very sad tragedy that I could not have conceived of to this extreme prior to Helene.

[@mosart7025]

Yeah, but people keep rebuilding in areas where flooding and hurricanes DO happen frequently, if not yearly. If THEY don't remember or are allowed to stay there what chance is there that people in areas where things like this hardly ever happen will leave or remember for more than a generation or two? Especially if there isn't much flat land or they don't have family in safer places that they can stay with and help them reseettle?

[@totallylegityoutubeperson4170]

I'm near Marion, and have plenty of coworkers that live further west. Prayers to you all affected.

[@ilovethe80sNW]

I think that is what the video was saying without saying it. Let's use modern technology to rebuild this area in a safer way that takes the topographic mechanics into account when rebuilding to reduce loss of life and destruction of property. It is heartbreaking but it's great that so many people, private groups, and government agencies are all there to help out.

[@bobann3566]

Indeed. With A.I. we should amass a data program with every natural disaster. In fact, if we only could remember as a Society the past mistakes we have made maybe we could stop re making the same mistakes over and over again. Like Rome was destroyed by the Goths due to Roman Senators bringing in these foreigners to use them as soldiers against their own people, similar to what we see today with foreigners being brought in to displace and replace the current populations by the Deep State which history shows us will back fire on them. If only we could remember the past.

[@SJ-ef5gk]

It won't be forgotten by many, especially many with real loss, some loss everything and the insurance companies are already telling them that nothing will be covered. As you can see there were a lot of people who would never expect any kind of flooding near them and flood insurance isn't something a lot of people who live in mountains especially quite a ways from any flowing water, carry. They gladly take their premiums every month, but they won't pay out. Even people covered for roof damage with trees on their houses, their insurance companies are paying for roof damage but not for the removal of the tree which can cost thousands. Such a rip-off.

[@aureaphilos]

We experienced similar debris flows in Vermont after Hurricane Irene hit in 2012. Our souls are on glacial till, which usually provides excellent drainage, but the 8-10 inches dumped statewide by Irene was extreme for our area. The worst damage I saw came from channels where fallen trees or blocked culverts created momentary dams across the channel; they allowed debris to build up and compound the power and scouring downstream. Good video!

[@charlesyoung7436]

The remnants of hurricane Camille struck a small already saturated section of the VA Blue Ridge mountains in August, 1969. What happened was like this recent widespread disaster, but more concentrated, particularly in Nelson county where 150 +/- people lost their lives. The rainfall drowned birds in the trees, and a then world record 27 inches in several hours was recorded. The scars on the mountains have largely been erased, but the danger of a similar event has revealed itself 55 years later.

[@joanstearns2457]

We had upwards of 40” or so in WNC. A hurricane here is completely out of normal!!!!

[@sheilam4964]

This is what I have been looking for; a very comprehensive explanation with diagrams or pictures of the geophysics of the landscape showing what happened, the how and why of it all. The LIDAR Imaging was a bonus, a very helpful bonus. With all of the local vids of during and after I was watching the terrane and trying to visualize the mountains with and without the foliage, trees and grasses to imagine the speed and amount of water that swept across this area. Thx for doing this and sharing it.

[@Ppittman6564]

Thanks for explaining this to people. It amazes me about all the lies or how could this happen. I'm glad to be alive without power 14 days later and not going to see any for a while. I had 17 inches of rain at my house in 2 days and the ground was soaked before Helene got here. The wind effect on the mountain ridgelines was catastrophic. The land between the creeks, rivers and ridgetops were hardly touched besides the landslides. I live in Mitchell County NC. I was able to get to Johnson City Tennesee on Saturday after the storm. After we crossed into Tennesee on Iron Mountain most of the damage was at the top of mountain. When we got to bottom in Unicoe TN, we couldn't even tell there was a storm. In Johnson City there was no hint of the devastation just 25 miles away. Everyone was having a normal day.

[@leemer12]

j.c. doesnt have a wild stream near, most of the high rain fall had happened more like the mt. mitchell area of nc. the streams more near j.c. are damed the mass amount of water fall almost the same across nc causing a wall of water if you will, all that water goes down stream , roan mtn once got flooded extremely hard due to a snow pack with heavy melting with too much rain fall. erwin is more of a wild river coming out of nc on the Nolichucky

[@izzywizzy685]

Perhaps some people can’t understand how something like this could happen because as this guy stated a number of times, it’s not a common occurrence. Another reason would be that it’s getting harder to trust the information given because I know I have personally noted a number of times in which the press flat out lied. Plus as you mentioned just a mere 25 miles away and it was like a normal day. Though I’m not sure what lies you are talking about exactly but it’s a large area and it’s hard to know everything that is going on in other areas unless your there. I’ve heard lots of people that are there giving their first hand accounts only for the press to claim it’s not true. If it were a few maybe however it’s many all over social media and I’m more inclined to believe other regular citizens over the corporate press or our government. The fact is fema has had issues in the past and it appears some of those issues have only gotten worse. There main priority should be getting emergency personnel on the ground to help but instead it’s about “equity” and “sustainable energy” or spending massive amounts of funds on things they should not be spending them on.

[@beyondEV]

I think part of the problem in terms of loss of life, was, that the mountains would rather qualify as hills over here. Meaning, events where you have widespread landslides and debris flows are so rare, that neither people nor authorities really made a risk assessment or people have a memory of such a event and can properly read the warning sign. Over here in the alps, landslides and debris flows in many areas already can occurs from even a particularly strong thunderstorm. So everything is mapped, observed and evacuation needs and plans are laid out. This year, own town had a catastrophic debris flow, well above any predictions by the geologists (they are still looking into the reasons, the amount of rainfall shouldn't even have triggered any significant debri flow according to the models). The same town had already been hit hard in 2005 by another debris flow (different small river). This debris flow was about 10 times stronger than the defenses (debris catchment) they built after 2005 were made for, so it overwhelmed the defenses in less than 15 minutes. But those 15 minutes where exactly enough that everyone notices the danger (water can pass, so flooding was already visible) and leave their houses and the area. While the property damage is immense, no one died.

[@jjroseknows777]

@@izzywizzy685 I've made so many comments on this comments thread in the last hour or so that I'm talked out. But did want to say thank you for your opinion, your view. Yes it is getting harder to trust. It IS weird to read a sentence, "Just 25 miles away people were having a normal day." I feel something like that here in Chicago when I see those suburbs that seem untouched by the craziness of the world we're living in. "But it'll soon shake their windows and rattle their door - for the times they are a'changing." Anyway, thank you, and bless you.

[@jamesbridges210]

All man made for the Cobolt , Lithium. , Quarts for Batteries

[@Astronetics]

This was possibly THE BEST explanation of the dynamics involved in all the destruction. For someone who is not an expert, your presentation was incredibly informative. Commenting to bump up so more people see this video.

[@TheJttv]

Thank you for this. Stellar presentation, amazing drawing skills too

[@TheGeoModels]

Thank you too!

[@cumberlandquiltchic1]

Excellent, excellent video’ I’ve watched it many times. I live here. You are the only person I’ve seen explaining this, in this way! For me, I’ve been seeing more landslides (didn’t impact anyone directly) and even with just normal rainfalls for this area… it’s very troubling. Thank you for this. Great explanation!!!

[@rpehlman135]

Wow, You answered all my questions!! So I heard that the area was saturated before Helene, but. You are also talking about the instability of what the landscape is made of compared to other elevated areas in the Appalachian mountains.Thankyou. I love the comparison of debris flows

[@leemer12]

there are a few fault lines in the bigger valleys, the ground is not as stabile compared to other like the i-40 is on a active fault line at the nc/tn line area

[@patsy5487]

Thanks so much for this video. I’ve puzzled about how such catastrophic scenes as happened in Western NC could occur. You are the first You Tuber who has explained the sequence in detail. Subscribed.

[@elf5012]

Thank you for analyzing how this tragedy happened. I have family in Black Mountain. Luckily, their home was spared, but there is still no water or Internet. The massive amount of devastation is overwhelming. I donated to the Cajun Navy to help the mule trains in the mountains. The major highways may only be completely restored, and it will take a decade? Now, I understand why. People lived in the lower area because that was the only flat area available, and it had been over one hundred years since the last hurricane or flooding of such magnitude. The scope of this tragedy is just..there are no words.

[@staralioflundnv]

Those old time mule trains still have a place in America today, and they sure proved their mettle in getting through ravaged areas that couldn't be reached by other means! It warmed my heart to see videos of them!

[@brucemattes5015]

I was stationed at Huckleberry Creek Mountain Training Camp, an adjunct training base to Ft. Lewis, Washington, during the winter of 1977-1978. Huckleberry Creek Mountain Training Camp was located in the Snoqualmie National Forest less than a mile outside of the northeastern border of Mt. Ranier National Park. Snow began falling at high elevations on Mt. Ranier as early as August in 1977. Simultaneously, it was raining in a typical Pacific Northwest fashion down at most of the lower elevations west of the mountain. No flooding, just your typical fall/winter swelling of every waterway flowing down off the slopes of Mt. Ranier towards Puget Sound. By very early December, it had been snowing intermittently, but steadily, on Mt. Ranier for over 4 months, with significant accumulations of new snow far down into the timberlines of the mountain. Suddenly, the weather patterns took a turn for the worse, and within a period of just several days it began to steadily rain for weeks all the way up in elevation above Mt. Ranier's summit. Within a week ALL of that early season snow on Mt. Ranier had melted, and the glaciers on Ranier began to melt as well. Every single tributary flowing off of Ranier became a raging torrent with boulders the size of a Volkswagen Beetle as well as entire first growth Douglas fir trees and Western Red Cedar trees having their root balls undermined, uprooted, falling over into the flood waters, and being washed downstream towards Puget Sound. Huckleberry Creek, normally less than 8" deep and several feet wide, swelled to over 50 yards wide and between 10' and 20' deep. The tiny wooden bridge into camp off of Highway 410 that was capable of carrying the weight of a fully-loaded logging truck washed away on the first day of the catastrophic flooding, trapping us in the camp..Because of our skillsets as mountain training instructors, we were eventually able to construct a somewhat precarious but relatively stable rope assisted bridge across a humongous log/tree/debris jam that formed in a tiny bend of Huckleberry Creek just outside the elevated perimeter of our camp. For approximately 10 days, until the flood waters subsided sufficiently to allow a bulldozer from Ft. Lewis to create a temporary road through the newly scoured bed of Huckleberry Creek where the bridge once stood, we horizontally belayed every person crossing that log jam in either direction, into or out of camp, from both sides of that jam. The only exception to that rule was the the first person to cross the jam in either direction, who was then responsible for setting up the belay station on the opposite side of the jam so that if someone slipped off of those slick tree trunks and lost their grip on the rope handlines that were located at waist height, then they would not suffer a serious injury. That was my second experience with catastrophic flooding. The first was the aftermath of Hurricane Agnes in 1972 in central Maryland, where I was born and raised. The flooding in western Washington paled in comparison to what I saw in Maryland 5 years previously. Unless and until you experience something like what happened to me back in the 1970's or what has happened this year across the entire southeastern United States from Hurricane Helene, then you simply cannot wrap your head around the scale of destruction and death that Mother Nature is capable of handing out to we frail humans. *My heartfelt prayers go out to everyone affected by Helene and Milton, especially those who lost family, friends, and neighbors.*

[@gfurstnsu]

I had a home in Lock Haven,PA and remember hurricane Agnus in June of 1972. The Susquehanna river rose over 30 feet and flooded our home. I will never forget that flood as I was a graduate student in Penn State University. I gathered together all my fellow grad students and we cleaned the mud out of our home and returned it back to a livable state. Greatly appreciated my fellow grad students and their great effort. It is community and friends that in the long run are the greatest helpers in a disaster.

[@rik4369]

@@brucemattes5015 I was stationed at Sub Base Bangor in the early 1980's ( 81-83). I drove military vehicle up to Huckleberry Creek for winter training for our Marines. It was indeed a magical area. I am an East Coaster and never saw such beuatiful sites as Mt . Rainer and it's beauty. Never heard of the story you told but can see how such a powerful rain pouring could wreck havoc on that area. I was there after Mt. Saint Helen blew. I came after the event but saw all the damage from silt from the mountian. Car air filters had to be changed monthly. I drove over the Snochomous ( spelling?l Pass to get to Spokane ( Fairchild Air Force Base ) for basketball tournaments. We had to change a flat tire during a mind snow storm once. Scary as hell. Appreciate your story and brings back some fond memories. Semper Fi

[@araghara4746]

This is such a wonderful service. Why we need know something about geology and the paces we choose, or not, to live. Most grateful for your public service.

[@n8dawg640]

Glad to see you’re okay after Helene, and this is exactly what I was hoping you’d cover. Thanks for putting this out!

[@TheGeoModels]

more to come. thanks for watching!

[@dlynnmorse]

Thank you for this explanation. I'm one of issu my road is 2 miles @ 4000 ft above Cox Creek. When I saw the start of torrent of water and mud I knew neighborhood below was going to have issues. Literally made my road part of the creek . Prayers to all.

[@alabamatechwriter6959]

OUTSTANDING : Thank you for the best explanation by anyone so far. It would be nice if you could tell this to some Congressional committee investigating emergency management strategies.

[@TheGeoModels]

i'd enjoy talking to them...or perhaps illustrating the idea with Paint. Much like the airplane safety card, a picture is worth a thousand words.

[@jjroseknows777]

@@TheGeoModels Can you make sure Glenn Beck sees this? Or the Senator he was down there with? Oh, this seems like a great place to tell you this was GREAT. Thank you.

[@EWasteJILL]

@TheGeoModels Do you want to work in Oregon or Hawaii? Or just take samples in Colorado and alalyze them? I assume you already have a nice paying job BUT that Hawaii job pays well. 😎 If I didn't have bone on bone on right knee...where was that Colorado job when I was young! 😢 I look forward to future videos. Especially if there were mine tailing ponds that may have failed up the holler from the river floods. www.usajobs.gov/search/results/?l=&k=Geology&p=1

[@cumberlandquiltchic1]

The best video I’ve seen, in terms of explaining and showing the topography etc on a map/scale. Well done!

[@TheGeoModels]

thanks. going to do a few more with maps and what the landscape looks like

[@johncamp2567]

This whole Helene disaster in western North Carolina is strikingly similar to the disaster of Hurricane Camille over Nelson County in the Blue Ridge of Virginia, in 1969. Unexpectedly, another storm caused the remnants of Camille to park over the steep mountains of this very rugged, rural country, resulting in dozens of deaths, mountainsides coming down, communities washed away- obliterated in the darkness of night and without warning.

[@TheGeoModels]

they have a lot in common. going to talk about it down the road here

[@ECKOArt.Psychic.Energy.Artist]

That's awful. Both are.

[@Singlesix6]

Over 100 deaths. Iirc there are still 37 missing. My father's family was across the county line in southern Albemarle and my father's first cousin was sheriff of Augusta County (across Rockfish Gap/the Staunton and Waynesboro area) when the first scattered word of mouth pleas for assistance came in. With the phone lines down and no such thing as a cell phone in 1969, it was hard to get to get the word out.

[@wfoybealiii4668]

@@TheGeoModels Philip, I'm glad to know you'll comment on the similarities. Geologist Dick Whitehead trained me on my first job out of Appalachian State Geology school, and it was just 9 years after Camille. Over the years I came to know Dick's whole family, including his father Bill, who was Sheriff of Nelson County during Camille. They got 30" of rain in 7 hours. I imagine there are also similarities to the debris flow events which occurred Watauga, Wilkes, and Ashe Counties during the 1940 hurricane event. So many are citing Helene as an event without precedent, and it seems entirely arguable that it was not. Your observations and opinions are welcome and valuable.

[@dancarmack2486]

I would like to thank Philip. This work you have done to educate me and the other laypeople in your readership, is hero work. It brings to mind the benefit to society of training men and women to do work that is valuable in a way that is hard to quantify. I dont know your profession, who pays for your training or products. This is what I know…value is rarely measured in dollars. In your profession there are probably zero billionaires. In your profession there is incalculable value in knowledge. It is essential that the US finds a way to fund the lives and training of men and women like you. It cannot be left up to the market to value the knowledge you possess. The same is true for all of the sciences. Some are paid better than others, but every scientific pursuit leads to the accumulation of knowledge. When an event like Helene happens, then a lot of the worth, value and knowledge flows down to the eyes and minds of someone like me, who until this year had no reason to understand any of this. Knowledge prevents conspiracy theories from gaining power. It is worth training young minds to be able to do.

[@Sojue3]

Thank you. Excellent comment and totally agree!

[@RogueWave2030]

So glad I found your channel, just subscribed. We live in Western North Carolina, but hurricane Helene only caused minor damage. I've been curious as to how a thing like this can happen. You make it easy for lay people to understand. You make great point about how to live safely in a beautiful place like our Appalachian mountains and how to keep that in people's minds in many years to come. I heard the same thing happened over the centuries with Mount Vesuvius. Eventually people would forget, move back and get wiped out.

[@joshadams8761]

Thanks for making this video. I am reminded of the lahar risk in the southern Puget Sound area, near Tacoma.

[@TheGeoModels]

yep...even bigger and scarier!

[@calgaines4841]

heh .. I grew up in the path, not knowing ...years later, kinda gave me a shiver ...

[@criticaloptimist]

Didnt some of the images of rivers clogged with trees remind you of st Helen’s? It’s so scary to think of that much water and debris coming from only a couple hundred feet up. It is a lot like the Olympic peninsula in that way, you’re right. There is that museum of a native American village taken out by a landslide (can’t remember how to spell the tribe’s name). I remember my first time on the coast out there akd how spooked i was of the tsunami warnings. My friend said that her geologist ex taught her the most beautiful places are created by destructive forces. To live there is to live at risk of experiencing those destructive forces.

[@MoeBro07]

The very first flow video I saw from the top of the town of Chimney Rock reminded me precisely of a lahar

[@colinmarshall6634]

I lived in Seattle for a while and hope that event never happens. Nobody is prepared for it.

[@yj965]

Ive been looking forward to hearing what you have to say about this pertaining to the geology of the area. Thanks and keep up the good work

[@TheGeoModels]

thanks. there will be more vids about this event as I get time to make them.

[@jackcompton8752]

Thanks for taking the time to put this together & sharing. Excellent presentation.

[@TheGeoModels]

thanks. trying to keep it part of the conversation.

[@maryefromky]

see i'm in Irvine, KY and this, this is what scares me the most. i know its probably only a concern when its raining a whole lot, in a short period of time. but i live in a holler, and i know there are areas in the same county that have had landslides. i looked at some maps from the University of KY geology dept about landslide risk, i just didn't see anything in my particular area. but in the same county, the higher peaks, there's arrows showing where the debris would likely flow. ugh. i am so terrified of that happening here though. we live on higher ground on a ridge top, so it'd just be a matter of evacuating before it rains too much and this becomes a problem for us here in eastern KY. its already happened, just not as bad as in NC and TN. another reminder to try to be prepared and be aware. and evacuate before things get too dicey. the mountains are safer than the cities, to a degree. until it starts raining way too much, too quick, and then they become extremely hazardous. thank you for these videos though, i feel a little better when i'm more informed.

[@drawncept8391]

The flood of 2022 in Perry/Breathitt was unreal. I worked that flood. I imagine Helene is like that but across three or four states. Us mountain people have a unique perspective due to our topography. This is crazy stuff. Unreal devastation.

[@Dan_Neely]

I'd like to see a followup video giving some instructions on how to find the hazard information for a given area.

[@TheGeoModels]

I can work on that

[@debsgirl8]

Yes please

[@justinmorgan3955]

Thank you for covering this. I work on the Nolichucky it takes 6 hours at normal flow (700 cfs) for the water to get from Poplar to Erwin. The USGS gauge for Poplar was lost in a previous flood and never put back so we have to calculate flows based on rainfall and all headwater flow above the confluence of the Toe and Cane. Just curious as to your thoughts on any type of warning systems that could be put into place in the future. I wanted to drive through town screaming at people to get out of the way. We lost 6 lives because of lack of an evacuation.

[@gibsonfan159]

The outcome of this was obvious to many people and we've had this happen before (1998), it's frustrating why emergency crews weren't put into place before the events took place instead of days afterwards.

[@bradbutcher3984]

You can't help everyone, especially the one's that can't see the writing on the wall. Water flows downhill.

[@StarDreamMemories]

Yes every community should have warnings and plans. However as the gentleman states it is hundreds of years or thousands between events like these. I'm curious, was anyone forecasting that much rain? How long before the heavy rain started did this area expect flooding? 1 or 2 days. I've never heard of 29" of rain in such a short time period in my life.

[@sophiacromwell8017]

Do you know WHY the USGS gauge wasn’t put back? Wouldn’t that be necessary for state/county/city planning (especially “disaster planning”)? Disaster planning is something that’s usually done at all levels of govt… even if this kind of event wasn’t on the radar, all rivers flood?

[@englishruraldoggynerd]

One technology that could be used is a pulse radar that can either be mounted on bridges or on poles by the side. The unit looks like a satellite tv signal collater in the middle of the dish, these are used in Switzerland to monitor and measure streams, rivers and flow channels.

[@staceyreid2763]

Incredibly helpful video! It both humanizes the situation for those of us seeing via news reports and intellectualizes it for people struggling with the scope of such an immense disaster.

[@practicalanachronist]

Thank you for explaining the science behind this horrific event. Very important information that is pertinent for planners and homeowners to know when building in the future.

[@DontHateItsBased]

I live in the Ozark’s of northern Arkansas . Very similar topography, similar culture. My heart breaks for those people. I used to do geotechnical drilling. People do not understand what just a little bit of water can do. I drilled a culvert washout that cut 30-40’ deep and 50-60’wide. Arkansas is constantly fighting roads sliding off of hillsides. This scenario is a huge fear for me in this area. I know of a couple hills where the shale is weathering and compressing out at the base. Many flood control lakes are filling with sediment and causing rivers to back up further than they used to. What happened in Appalachia should serve as a warning to all.

[@kimfleury]

I knew someone who worked for the state zoning department as a geologist in a Northwest state. He said landowners would get really mad at him because he refused to sign off on letting them construct housing or other buildings in certain areas. He backed up his denial with a written report detailing the risks and known hazards, but building permit applicants didn't read them, or didn't believe them, or just plain didn't care for one reason or other. These were usually people who weren't from the area and wanted to move there for the beauty, so they would buy land before doing the research. Developers in that area do the research before buying. But in another state -- I can't remember if it's Nevada or Utah -- there's so little that happens to cause major catastrophic changes that they don't have the strict zoning, and when the population shot up more than a decade ago, out of state developers swarmed in to build needed housing. Except they built in locked canyons and other risky places. I've lived in Texas, and there are dry creeks all over the place that only flow when it rains upstream. And it's not just a flow, but a flash flood that you don't even see coming until it's there. When I saw the article about the housing development in that locked canyon, local developers in the state commented that there was going to be massive loss of life and property when -- not if -- it floods. It might not happen for another 100 years, but even the local developers recognized that the canyon was carved by flood waters, almost always flowing from a great distance away. Those developers learned from geologists.

[@johnjacobson1375]

Very well crafted video in being able to convey the scientific data to an audience in a manner that is easily understood. I can truly say that we will add topographical maps during disaster response preparations to future SAR deployments in Virginia for probable flooding events in the mountains. Your efforts are greatly appreciated and very much needed.

[@Carl-ve1nr]

Great explanation! Very similar to post-fire debris flows from El niño rains in the transverse range of southern CA. Definitely more frequent in CA but still potentially catastrophic.

[@TheGeoModels]

Those get a lot of study, for sure. Here, our drainages store up lots of stuff then really go off occasionally. Glad you liked the vid.

[@notozknows]

This could save lives in the future, I was waiting for you to break out the LIDAR! I can see big ideas coming from your exclusive reports.

[@TheGeoModels]

We try to keep folks thinking. Lots of information out there in the world just never gets to the people who could really use it. Trying to keep these topics going so progress can be made!

[@AngelinaATF]

Thank you so much for this information. It is so important to anyone living in a mountainous or ridge community. I lived in Cascade Mountains as well as an area not too far from the coast of Washington state & I worried about the snow in one place & tsunamis/earthquake in another. Lived all over w my X-husb job in academia as well as growing up in Calif & Hawaii so geology fascinated me even though I chose medicine as a career. Now live in N Dakota where it’s “red river valley” and our river at flood stage of 14 feet went all the way to nearly 42 feet & nearly flooded our part of the city w ice/slush water in 2008-9. It was unbelievable. Without the community whom sandbagged to 42+ feet, we’d most certainly have died & my children were small then! If there had been any mountainous conditions or even slight elevation, i am certain the entire city of Fargo would’ve been gone. That was so far beyond a 100 or 500 year flood that one must wonder how many times entire cities have been lost in the past?

[@randallreed9048]

Philip: Another outstandingly good presentation. It starts with the timeliness of your topic selection and goes from there. You are unique and I appreciate your mind and your talents. Thank you!

[@TheGeoModels]

Happy to do it. Hope folks find it helpful in understanding things!

[@konstantgus9208]

Nice Ukraine flag. @radallreed9048

[@denniszembower5634]

From A former USAF weather man I have been looking for this excellent explanation of how this debris slide occurs. Thank you for clarifying how this slide process develops.

[@rik4369]

Great work on explaining this to us regular people. You did us all decent work! Thank You!

[@TheGeoModels]

Thank you

[@sandraoconnor5700]

So eye opening and informative ❤❤❤ Praying for all beautiful people affected by these disasters ❤❤❤❤❤

[@geomorphdog]

You've described the situation well. I've studied debris flows in western Oregon, where they're more common, but I've wondered, and speculated with colleagues, about how common they might be in the Ozarks, where I've seen deposits containing car-size boulders. I'm a geomorphologist, so debris flows interest me, but I need to be mindful of the death and destruction they can cause. My heart goes out to those affected by these debris flows and the other impacts of Helene. Keep up the good work!

[@cmaven4762]

I'm only 2:15 into the video, but my impression of that wide space where all the houses were is that the people build on previous mudslides, ones that were old enough not to present as that to the casual observer. The way the debris field settled so naturally on top of the open space suggests this is not the first time such debris flows have occurred. It's just that the area had to have been saturated with huge volumes of rain like that of Helene. Wild.

[@kristinabliss]

Casual observer says, "Oh, here's a flat spot. Let's build here!" 🤔

[@SRJason747]

This video is excellent. This is a great crossover of geology and meteorology. I sent it to some of my fellow meteorologists who may face these risks.

[@sato611]

I am so sorry for this devastation. Your emphasis on the importance of the community passing on the experience and information to the next generation is the core to the disaster management. Tsunami in Japanese communities has a similar status to the Appalalchian landslide events. The passed down knowledge of when and where to run for the safety has saved many lives including children's.

[@mamalor13]

Excellent video! This is the information I have been looking for since this disaster occurred. Thank you so much!

[@Davemte34108]

When I was 10 and living in Northwest Indiana, an area that is basically flat except for a dune/ridge back from the edge of Lake Michigan. Back in the late 19th century a man wanted to farm an area that was a swamp, so he cut a drainage ditch from the area and through the ridge, other farmers dug ditches to connect to his over the years. I played in the result which was about 40 feet deep and 60 feet wide, caught fish and crayfish in the little stream at the bottom, hunted squirrel in the trees along it. One week we received a lot of rain, when I went to the ditch it was full bank to bank and the water was moving fast. One house that had been built too close collapsed into the ditch. Since then I have always given careful thought to effect of water on any property that I bought.

[@firesandflowers]

The best video on geography I've seen so far! I live in Arden (south asheville) and this is exactly what I've been looking for since the storm hit. I took a hydrogeology class as an elective in college one of my last semesters and it almost convinced me to double major in environmental studies! Such a facinating field!

[@BikeNewLondon]

I was just having a discussion today asking "where did the debris go?" and of course where did it all come from. Your video is extremely helpful in understanding the why's and how's of the atmospheric effects and the soil mechanics at work here. It doesn't make it any less miserable for the folks on the ground, but you have all my sympathy and support. Our region still talks about hurricanes in 1938 and 1955 that devastated our towns with flooding, storm surge, and wind damage. Whole lines of houses wiped away at the coast. There is nothing as powerful as nature. (and government weather machines don't exist!}

[@bradleymincey6905]

Been waiting for you to drop a video on this! I find this stuff fascinating! I live right here in South Carolina and I love these mountains!! As soon as helene made it to the Carolinas, I started tracing the the rivers like the French broad, Pigeon, nolichucky and others back to their birthplace and finding out all the areas and small communities that were being impacted by it. The watershed system is something i enjoy gaining knowledge about, as well as the dams on those rivers and the whole history of them

[@atinwoodsman]

Was waiting on this one, you didn't disappoint

[@TheGeoModels]

thank you!

[@barbaracherington8703]

Thank you for this very helpful and informative presentation. I've been glued to KZbin videos trying to wrap my mind around the disaster of Helene in NC and Tenn, and this presentation has been very instructional for me. I finally really understand how it happened the way it did, and why it was so catastrophic. My heart aches for all the people who lost loved ones, their entire homes, their life's work. I am subscribing to your channel because I really am fascinated by this material. Thanks again.

[@chrislong9202]

seems in 1889 and in 1916 mother nature gave warning that being next to a river isnt the best the watershed area might not be large but the slope is steeep and being the soil composition is mainly sand trees dont have a massive root system so little to anchor them into the ground all factors mixed together make for a perfect disaster. very unfortunate and praying for those affected. this is why history can not be ignored or forgotten.

[@michaelp8856]

They should have you on 60 minutes! I've been following this on You Tube and what you have presented is incredible

[@russellharp8761]

From NC, remember my grandparents used to call those places "washes." Big trees, vegetation, no signs of problems. But they knew not to build near those places.

[@CrystalClearStar]

I’m so excited someone is showing this information! I’ve taken a huge interest into the earth and how everything is sitting, the rock layers, etc. You’ve been very helpful. Thank you!

[@reidcrosby6241]

I was a Terrain Analyst in Army (WestCom SF) , I appreciate you doing this. It is important for folks living on both lesser slopes, and similar slopes. I haven't seen the whole vid yet. You are going to cover % of slope per your statement , but I would also be curious if your going to discuss soil composition. I my case soils are this and talus sized rocks throughout (IMHO, creating stability on less slope than where this event occured)

[@Rick-qf5de]

What do you know about that new inland ocean, from lake Michigan down into the Gulf.... ? Supposed to be a East and a West Tennessee with a 50-mile wide gorge....

[@reidcrosby6241]

​@@Rick-qf5deNot a thing. Well beyond my training. I am a hobby geologist and know my region REALLY well. Minored in geology in college. I can say to my local area and where I grew up. ..the train derailment has an underlying water course that follows glacial deposits NORTH and not south as the East Palestine area has surface water moving to Ohio River. So , any deeper toxic perculation may actually travel to my home town and its public water supply (well) . So, again local specifics matter and I cannot speak to your concerns. I would seek out someone at a regional or better university.

[@angelamarshall4179]

Fantastic explanation! Great visuals; you are an excellent content creator!

[@petgranny194]

Thank you for this detail explanation. Folks don't think about these thing. I worked for the building department of a major city located on multiple hills. Land use and building regulations look at the risks from natural feature. We can do better - some places should not have people. When looking for a home, I took these things into consideration to limit my search - where will water flow in an extreme event?

[@cnccccccd]

Straight away this is insane seeing the difference. Incredibly beautiful areas cant believe how that can happen. Have always looked at this area as the dream place to live. The communities there are clearly amazing but my days have you been tested to the limits. Sending love and continued strength to the areas affected from across the pond from Scotland

[@JHillNC]

Thank you for the excellent descriptions of how these debris flows work. I recommend taking a look at the latest Mark Huneycutt video where he flies his paramotor over the Chimney Rock community and shows many debris flows that occurred on both sides of the river. Using the education you gave me in this video, I was able to identify them and understand exactly what I was looking at. Thank you!!

[@TheGeoModels]

so in his video called "Swannanoa was hit hard" or something like that he actually drives through the area I talk about here at the end of the video. I actually have no clue how he managed to do it, but it shows how it was completely wiped clean as well as damage to cars, etc. It's unreal. Starts at about 9:00 or so.

[@paulazajac9155]

Thank you for a great analysis. I am sure you are inundated with more work than you can quite address! I have been on pins and needles watching everything I can find to understand what has happened there and why. My heart goes out to all those affected. Thanks again.

[@chingeling86]

Being a geologist from Europe I really appreciate your monologue and explanations. The amount of water might have been a 10ky event, which is just crazy.

[@TheGeoModels]

at least! there may be topographic/fluvial signatures of something like it from the past, but we didn’t even know to look, I suppose. the flux of sediment and carbon out of the affected areas is incredible.

[@jackrabbit6515]

Yes, which adds credence to the assertion that this was in no way a natural event...

[@chingeling86]

@@jackrabbit6515 that's not at all the case. No doubt about this being a natural occurrence. Such as the green house affect. Its basic physics / chemistry which is taught in all environmental science degrees and even in high school.

[@lisaloo5499]

Thank you so much for the time you dedicated to produce this wonderfully informative video.

[@jayg3242]

These poor folks. I'm in Wake county and it rained 26 of those days in September, dropping an inch or more daily! Wral said it was the third wettest month on record for us. If western NC had rain like we did in the triangle, they were beyond saturated already . They couldn't handle any more rain. We had giant pines just tip over because their roots are shallow and the ground was so loose. Even the clay was runny, leaving red streaks down my hillside drainage into the road .

[@rayellenkishbach8998]

Thank you for posting this. Your pace and visuals really helped me make sense of this. I also really appreciate your empathy for the beauty of the land and the unexpected nature of this event for the people who live there.

[@falconbritt5461]

I used to live in Asheville, then Old Fort, and worked in Swannanoa as a librarian. Folks, having studied survival may I share a few thoughts? Freezing temps are coming, as you know, and recovery for the region will take many months (and in some respects, years, as you can see). Might as well go for now, seek shelter with some community group, friends, or family for winter - supplies will be even more hard to find when roads get icy and more trees fall from normal high wind events. Please, rescuers, help folks to leave the region for now so they can survive winter. NC has ice events every winter, and slopes are weaker now. Power will go out again, and roads can be blocked again. If folks stay, they need a winter-proof tent with a woodstove in it (get a brand made for that), but also have a big stash of food and a handpump on a deep well, a pump that won't freeze up. If you are a survivor but have no place to go, try to have faith and ask the holy angels for help - I have seen more than a few actual miracles, like the time an angel caused a huge fire to burst forth that was 6 feet high and 4 feet wide, burning so hot I had to step back from it - this from a pile of completely soaked wood and soggy moss (it was like trying to light a soggy sponge - not happening. but it did. Angels carry some amperage!). That whole pile burned like dry pitch pine, and for an abnormally long time. I was also taken on a long journey totally on faith once, and miracles just kept unfolding because I asked. Hold joy and peace if you can, but mainly ask, ask aloud, for the help you need. The holy angels will help you get shelter and food for winter, clothing, jobs.... Ask them for "whatever is best, wherever is best, in whatever way is best." Then you can go back in spring if you feel called. If you do choose to stay, the skilledsurvival site has a reviews page on Alaska-level tents, various brands of truly winter proof tents, some designed to accomodate a wood stove and hold five people. But unless you also have a huge cache of food and handpump access to fresh well water (electricity can be expected to go down a few times this winter from weakened trees, ice, and wind events), you will be better off elsewhere. (And if you have salted meat laid in, is it truly safe from bears? Lots to think about.) Ask the holy angels and Jesus for the best inner advice, ask them where to go each step of the way, ask for exactly what you need solved, continually (pray continually, as the Bible advises). Just know the angels can open many miraculous doors, I have seen other actual miracles as well. Never underestimate God. Just keep asking aloud, and specifically, for what you need, then hand the matter to the holy angels. God has your back, even if at times in the past it may not have seemed that way.

[@MrReymoclif714]

Friends in Robbinsville. That’s hilly country down there.

[@DeborahFlorian-gy6lw]

Excellent, realistic advice. It could do a tremendous amount of good if you would pass it on to the people at Grindstone Ministeries, they come to mind as i've watched their videos and donated. People would benefit from your knowledge!

[@RedRover22]

This is very densely packed with useful information. Thank you.

[@ThomasD66]

Many years ago, while visiting Japan my wife and I went to a site on the outskirts of Shimabara City, which had been buried by a pyroclastic flow from Mt. Unzen. Standing on the remains of the flow, with the roofs of buried buildings poking out around us we looked towards Mt. Unzen. It was a not much more than a bump on the horizon, four kilometers away. Under any other circumstance nobody would ever view that mountain from that distance and think "that thing could kill me." Not an identical event, but when earth flows, it goes faster and farther than most would ever imagine.

[@ericfielding2540]

Nice illustration of the debris flow initiation and runout. The lidar data is incredibly informative in this forested landscape. We have many debris flows in California, and they happen so often that drainages near LA have debris flow basins to catch them.

[@hootis8]

Love to hear about the Nolichucky, experienced that first hand.

[@TheGeoModels]

Wow...I genuinely cannot imagine what it would look like. It will come up in the next video or so.

[@hootis8]

​@@TheGeoModels Not close enough for any damage, I have some pictures and video of the river during the flood and the aftermath mainly at local bridges if you wanted to include any of it in your video. Admittedly they're not very high quality and without context I don't think they really convey much.

[@jenlmcd]

Thank you for making this. We are in Greenville, SC, but these are some of our favorite places. It helps to understand.

[@TheGeoModels]

I’m also in Greenville, and they’re the same for me…have been all my life. I’ve worked heavily up there for the past 5 years and it’s hard to believe what happened to it, even as a geologist!

[@VenkatFinTamil]

Good work ...just commenting to appreciate your work. God bless these people

[@leighanne9299]

Thank you for explaining this in such a detailed and accessible way. You really made sense of it for me.

[@rebeccarose7405]

This makes me want to get back into using my long ago degree in geography! Thanks for the great explanation!

[@EWasteJILL]

@@rebeccarose7405 FEMA is hiring. Get certified in Lidar. 🤔😎

[@alanmcrae8594]

Liked & subscribed. An excellent presentation that explains debris flows so that anyone can understand what to look for as a potential hazard during an extreme rain event. Preparing for more extreme weather events as global climate change continues to increase in power & scope is simply the intelligent thing to do when the software technology & the GIS data are so readily available if one knows where to look. (Proactive is always better than reactive.) We're also interested in modeling the drainage flows of mountainous rural homesteading properties in order to channel water flows where one wants them and away from where one doesn't. Adding landscaped features like drainage ditches, swales, retention ponds, groundwater recharge zones, drain fields, etc. is a smart thing that an educated homeowner can do to improve the climate change resilience of their homestead. We will definitely be coming back to your channel to learn more, especially because I am a retired IT technician and can learn new software pretty quickly. Thanks for sharing your expertise with the rest of us.

[@Theonixco]

Thank you for this, irritatingly some were condemning those that didn't leave, as if they should have known what was going to happen and as if they deserved their fate. Well part of it is what you mentioned, these communities weren't situated next to known rivers that overflow, just tiny creeks that almost never have any significant waterflow in them. Unless you just happen to dump trillions of gallons of water into the area that was already soaked in just a couple of hours.

[@drgonzo767]

Great videos. Your series on this should be watched by all in the mountains. I also think this series is good for people outside the region to understand what happened, it's a unique geography and most people think of floods like they are in the Midwest, and not this incredible power of water in steep terrain, it's truly a different animal. I lived in Appalachia for the biggest chunk of my adult life, and I am always keen to ponder erosion over time as well as signs of past dramatic events when eyeing the landscape, because that's the story this land tells. As you said, the signs are there, but usually we have no idea of when. We have witnessed similar events in recent history, Peeks Creek NC in 2004 comes immediately to mind. I know the USGS and NCSG got to work then to start mapping these debris flow hazard areas, but it's just such a large region. I think perhaps we would be wise to consider all these little stream branches on the slopes to be a hazard. So many people are moving into the Blue Ridge area, we need to think hard about where they are building. That LIDAR is amazing, what a tool to have. What I fear is that we will see more of these events with climate change. In just the last few years we have seen flooding events described as 500 or 1000 year events (WV 2016, EKY 2022, and now WNC-ETN-SWVA 2024). Somewhat ironically, people have been moving to Appalachia thinking it is is some kind of "climate change haven". It's not. It's one of the worst places to be when it rains too damn much. Thankfully there are scientists like you, the USGS, and the NCGS working to identify the hazards...here's hoping the county governments listen, but I have my doubts about politics and money in most places, but especially Appalachia, that's just the history there.

[@hotbam37]

I know here in Galax, VA, the rain that we had right up to Helene was heavy and lasted a few days. I think that long lasting saturation right up to the Hurricane made it so much worse.

[@T-rick]

Thank you for making a digestible version of the technical aspects of this event. as a civil engineer grad, the amount of force and rain needed to cause this must damage is simply unable to comprehended.

[@cececat9549]

This man is trying to educate us regarding these water valleys, slides etc. It has happened in the past with records, so shameful of people to bring up politics and absurd theories. Prayers and support is needed.

[@13squier]

Great explanation. I have a friend who lives in an affected community in VA. Told me he thought he was still hearing thunder but it was debris flows coming down the mountains around him.

[@somewhat.random]

@MarkHuneycutt just posted a video where he hikes (and flies a drone) up Garren Creek. He clearly documents the mud slides and other things talked about in this video. It's worth a watch to see what the mountain looks like post storm/mud slides.

[@angelasimpson10519]

Thank you for explaining this visually! My husband was born & raised in WNC and has many family/friends that still live up there and thankfully are fine, but just seeing the many roads that I have traveled on, the roads my husband has told countless stories before we were together in such devastation is flooring. We live in Greenville County of SC and thankfully didn't sustain much damage so we currently have my MIL & SIL staying with us because they don't have water. It's just so crazy that stuff like this happens and I appreciate people like you that explain it in such a "dumb down" way, but also respectfully because so many lives were lost.

[@sandspike2929]

Im a 71 year old geologist. It’s obvious that water carved that valley by erosion removing all the rock that before filled it completely which is 100% natural. It is far easier for water to remove a virtually empty building than rock. Therefore the builders built at their own risk. Geologists should be consulted first b4 building in a hydrologically active valley. Mother nature is a cruel teacher. Not only on the coasts of Florida or the slopes of mountains in California. Geologic change can be much more inexorable and quicker than climate. Another good example is Pompeii. Oh and BTW, the entirety of this planet is geologically active! Only difference is the rate of change at a given spot. The mountain that he is showing you was once 2 or 3 times higher. This is how it came to be lower.

[@jakesroofingusa]

I saw 1 drone vid that was fairly close to the top of the mountain, it looked like the top of the mountain being capped with pulverized rock covered in soil and trees during hehen filled the upper aquafir then burst, there were no rivulets just a section view with a spring coming out of the bottom, looked like she popped it was a 10' vertical transition from veg to scoured rock, night and day.

[@nancygarrett-bn7pi]

This was awesome. Thanks. And how gifted is this gentleman to put it in words.

[@One-Day-After-Another]

I grew up in western NC (Brevard) in the 70s/80s... Left in 1995 now live out of state. But all my family is there. It's so CRAZY that living there all those years I've never even heard or of seen a debris flow... I didn't even know that was a thing in that area... My God how terrifying... I will say this... if the storms come from a certain direction... particuarly from the south, it will enhance the CRAP out of rain... I remember many events where it would rain 8 to 10 inches...but it was usually not much more than that...nothing like the 20+ inches they received.

[@bootgrease]

What a great description. Thank you. I love maps, especially topographical ones.

[@criticaloptimist]

I felt like it looked a lot like the pictures I saw of st Helen’s eruption. All the logs in the river looked so similar. If you think about it, that amount of rain is enough to look like the sudden melting of a glacier and destruction of an entire lake.

[@SunshinesART]

I saw the devastation of Mt. St. Helen a year after eruption, and every time I see pictures of this devastating flooding, it is so reminiscent of what I saw at Mt. St. Helen. You are the first person that echoed that same sentiment.

[@criticaloptimist]

@@SunshinesART right? It’s stunning to think so much water can come down in such a short period of time that it is like an entire volcano erupted!

[@JudicialMermaid]

This was so informative and I love that you used drawings and topography maps to explain the flows and how they work with catastrophic rainfall like Helene. It is another reminder of just how delicate, volatile, and unpredictable the Earth’s geological form can be. I appreciate the straightforward, science-based explanation you’ve given us. Hopefully as we rebuild, we take this into consideration not just in Appalachia, but also along our coastlines with homes.

[@fondy44]

Great video!

[@dylanmcknight7872]

great job at breaking this down & your paint skills are fire.

[@hime273]

I can tell you first hand, that what initiates these Debris Flows, is when Logs, Roots, Leaves, and whole Trees create a Dam...and then that Dam bursts. Sending all that crap downhill with thousands, of gallons of water pushing it, and riping up everything down to bedrock.

[@snorrris1970]

Really appreciate this video. I live in the flat lands of central Indiana and have been looking for info to understand how all of this destruction happened. Thanks so much!

[@cumberlandquiltchic1]

Mark Honeycutt just put out a video showing an aerial view, which is cool to see after watching your video.

[@TheGeoModels]

yeah he rode through here on his swannanoa video. surprised they permitted it, and he didn’t give a location. i didn’t include roads etc because of that. I’ll check out his vid. these are the worst debris flows in the region for some time, by a good margin. absolute disaster, and the ground level views I’ve seen are hard to believe

[@SteelCityCrush]

Excellent explanation. Thank you for sharing your expertise.