What if EVERY Rejected Fighter Actually Got In? - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

Many characters have been cut throughout Smash history, but what if EVERY single one actually got into the roster? In this video I break down what would've happened if a rejected character took the place of someone else, the massive ripple effect it would've had, and if Nintendo made the right or wrong calls. Would you have liked if any of these scrapped fighters joined the battle?
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▶️ Wanna see more videos like this? Check out some others below!
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🔺️ Let's stay connected on Twitter! / siiroth
00:00 What if EVERY Rejected Fighter Actually Got In?
03:13 Cut from Melee
14:40 Cut from Brawl
26:25 Cut from Smash 4
38:10 Cut from Ultimate
45:53 Results
⚡Special Thanks to Channel Members Clark Ryback, Jonathan San Agustin, Shannon Hildebrand & Jaru Binns!⚡
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/ @siiroth

[@Siiroth]

This is the biggest video I've ever done, sorry for the long wait 😊 Thanks for a great 2021, got some big plans for next year!

[@bloopblop5475]

I don't want to sound like that guy but just wanna tell you this before someone else complains. But Greninja is also a dark type.

[@HeavenlyZanpakuto]

You forgot Goku

[@pokefish]

I think that reyn from xenoblade should have got in and of course waliugi but everyone wants him in

[@Instafail]

Don't be sorry! Long videos are arduous to make, and I think it turned out pretty gosh dang well.

[@brunolike8631]

You forgot Mai Shiranui, from fatal fury, she was supposed to be in, but was changed for Terry

[@SonicTimewarp]

On the subject of Toon Zelda/Tetra getting in, I feel if they did split them in S4 like they did with Zelda/Sheik, they would have scrapped Toon Zelda and just kept Tetra, as Tetra would have been the most unique of the duo and is more of the face of the Toon style than TZelda is.

[@brandonwilliams6119]

It’s quite a shame our last true Zelda newcomers were in Melee which was 20 years ago, that’s when Melee was released.

[@TheOmegazerox]

I think going with Tetra would have ben the best option. Eather Toon Zelda would be an eco fighter or she would use her armor like in hyrule warriors. The problem with the armor idia is that is Zelda's move. If they just added a costume for Zelda that would be fine. Tetra should have a moveset based on windwaker items like the grapling hook and bombs. Probley a sward and her final smash wold have her ship apear in the background and you can fire canon shots at oponants.

[@brycebitetti1402]

Or maybe we could finally have a Zelda character that isn't one of the main three characters for once. I think that'd be nice.

[@atsukana1704]

They probably would have featured a phantom ability instead of our current zelda as well as they came from their games actually. Makes me wonder what the down special for zelda would have ended up being in that case.

[@atsukana1704]

@@TheOmegazerox probably something more unique to the toon series would feel better. Such as using the deku leaf for recovery and mirror shield in zelda form. Tetra would be hard though since we already have so many swords so making her unique would have to draw from phantom hourglass items or something but still be themed around her pirateliness

[@yournutt]

"Incineroar doesn't have any dark-type moves" *shows Incineroar using a dark type move that it has in smash* "dark is the only type Incineroar has that isn't shared with another fighter" except the other incredibly popular dark type pokemon in smash

[@GodTier21]

Greninja is ghost

[@yournutt]

@@GodTier21 no it isn't

[@mirzapramudya1580]

@@GodTier21 huh??? No he isn't

[@albertthepeacock8020]

If anything he doesn't have any Fire type moves considering that Fire is his main typing

[@natelikesfun]

The fact that the neutral special is literally called *Darkest* Lariat too, lmao

[@Boopenpop]

With Min Min, I think you have to consider that her moveset in arms revolves around her kicks as well, which honestly really helped her concept come to life in smash since she could have up close physical moves. Ninjara simply doesn’t have that, and with Min Min’s popularity I think that definitely puts her as the front runner

[@avarice8770]

She was also the winner of the party bash tourney.

[@Player-jh4ko]

And? Make Ninjara do kicks and stuff like that lmao. Smash is KNOWN for taking creative liberties to make fighters feel more alive. Most of the well known Smash characters wouldn't be in the game if creative liberties wasn't used.

[@ODSTD56]

@@avarice8770 Also Min Min is literally the Director of ARMS' baby. I think I remember seeing someone say he personally made her design

[@KaitouKaiju]

@@Player-jh4ko well, if you have to make up stuff anyway then you may as well just use the character who already has kicks made up for them and save some work

[@Pikazilla]

We have enough ninjas, and not enough ramen.

[@noname-oq8ey]

13:58 This isn't just a fan made "rule", Sakurai confirmed this himself.

[@Nasho3]

Fun fact: lucario appeared first in a movie

[@oscarotoole1163]

I had no idea Nintendogs were even planned to be playable. If they did I would’ve been in confusion. I mean, who would want to play as actual Dogs fighting against Mario? Cause I would

[@projectgarchomp2380]

Duck Hunt: *Sad dog noises*

[@professoridiot26]

Duck Hunt

[@gw7911]

But who would want to fight actual dogs

[@jspaceman]

@@gw7911 PETA: *sinister smiling*

[@KiddArachnid]

@AkiraAkiraAkira nothing isn’t possible with Nintendo except discounts 😐

[@galladeboii]

"inceneroar doesn't use any dark type moves" neutral special: (exists)

[@jmurray1110]

He literally showed darkest lariet in the background

[@SKsuprakirby]

Darkest Lariat be like: "Am i a joke to you?"

[@yournutt]

@Bryce Pruitt but he then says that it's the type that Incineroar has which no other fighter has, which isn't true for either Fire or Dark

[@Plasticsoldier64]

To be fair, darkest lariat is an incredibly basic spin attack that doesn't feel at all like a dark type move.

[@meatbone283]

I couldn't tell it was a dark move..

[@robobot2805]

40:46 Darkest Lariat is a dark type move and Incineroar shares the dark type with greninja

[@Blue-lr5fp]

"incineroar doesn't have any dark type moves." Neutral special - darkest lariat. Up special - throat chop

[@AznYunHou]

The only one not shared by any other fighter in smash. Greninja

[@thebandit6886]

Cross chop* which is a fighting move

[@shockanova]

@@thebandit6886 yet the phrase stated in the video is still false

[@seanhearn9616]

What a goof 😂😂😂

[@gigahammer662]

also his forward tilt is meant to be throat chop - dark move

[@PK-Radio]

Imagine James bond

[@celestia.5758]

Imagine James

[@isaacsokolic1781]

Imagine ames

[@Retro_Skelo]

Imagine mes

[@heroichero8662]

Imagine es

[@Andrey-pc8el]

Imagine s

[@armani7213]

I like how Shadow the Hedgehog wasn’t mentioned at all even though he’s been wanted since Brawl🥲

[@kristofer334]

To be fair, I see him as an edgy Sonic clone so I think he wouldn't really work. Knuckles is also probably going to be an assist trophy in the future, so honestly not gonna lie, in my opinion, Amy Rose should be definitely be in a future game.

[@Doracake]

@@kristofer334 Does Amy fit in a clone?

[@Superemie401]

3:27 Actually, Falco, Slippy and Peppy were supposed to be in the game as Fox’s alternative costumes. Unfortunately, only Falco joined Smash. They however appear in the other Smash Bros games in the secret discussion that Fox and Falco can turn on on Corneria and Venom. They also appear on Lylat Cruise, once again in their discussion. Slippy also appears in two of the discussions activated by Wolf as well as Snake’s Codec if Falco is the scanned character.

[@gebis8515]

King Dedede was originally planned for Smash 64 as well, and out of the characters we know work was done on it seems he was the second to last one to be cut. (The cutting order was Mewtwo, King Dedede, Bowser, with the final one even being confirmed for the game by Shigeru Miyamoto). Interestingly enough, Sakurai counted all the fan requests he received for Melee, with King Dedede ending up beating out every single character except for Peach and Bowser (and maybe Wario?). Yes, that includes Zelda, Ganon and Mewtwo.

[@YMangaka]

One thing i never understood bout dedede's inclusion is why did they made him holding his hammer (constantly) by default.. Since Brawl i was expecting him to fight like he did in the classic Kirby's adventure for nes : barehanded but using his hammer for certain moves. But having him holding it for the entire match seems kinda unfitting for his bases imo.

[@Raytheman581]

@@YMangaka Cause for one he's already sakurais creation and he wanted to do something different with his own creation. At the time there were hardly any weapon fighters either and what did he use? A weapon. Besides on Kirby 64 dededee also used a hammer as a main weapon and that came out before melee did in an official kirby game.

[@DBlue92_]

I totally agree with Sakurai’s decision regarding the implementation of Pokémon Trainer. I think it’s awesome that Squirtle got the spotlight along with Charizard and Ivysaur. And I also like the representation of all three forms of evolution, makes for a very interesting array of characters. Plus, you get the light/medium/heavy weight variety that makes people like me main him

[@THE_TOAST]

but we could have had a superheavy with blastoise! and not be stuck with charizard! :(

[@notextnocall1143]

I like the idea of this characters being able to be chosen alone. I mean, Pichu don’t needs a trainer but all 3 of them needs it? I liked Charizard in the last game for example. Plus, they lost one extra move each, because they can be changed during the battle.

[@Doracake]

Not that I hate them, but there are just too many Pokemon gens as well as unused franchises Smash needs to present. So it's still arguable to use three slots on one franchsie in one time.

[@naeshaunedwards7731]

Wait, I don’t think Lucario was meant to replace Mewtwo, I think it was just time. Roy, Dr Mario and Mewtwo (especially Mewtwo, he had some voice lines and a voice line for when you select him with the Wii remote) were supposed to be in the game, but didn’t make it in time

[@numberjuaanctr420]

Correct mewtwo and Lucario were both supposed to be in brawl but was cut do to time constraints.

[@BlackCatCards]

28:15 didn’t Sakurai say it was cause of the Devil gene? He had trouble envisioning an up special and various other stuff with Heihachi specifically, but a lot of that was easier when they picked Kazuya, a Mishima member with the devil gene

[@marcus7984]

He did

[@brawlmasterjoelstudios]

40:53 Greninja is a dark type

[@thiscommenter180]

Damn this video is impressive. The thing is, with the amount of obscure picks already, basically anyone has a chance, even if it may seem unlikely

[@TotallyNotRaven342]

It kinda makes sense why Blastoise didn't make it. He'd basically be a glorified reskin of Bowser if you really think about it. Instead of fire you get water, but still a similar moveset in terms of basic attacks. It really wouldn't of been that distinguishable in terms of differences.

[@tccraig]

Something you might have missed regarding FF reps: If we had gotten Terra as an FF6 rep, then the logical next step may not have been to add another protagonist from FF, but instead to add the antagonist of FF6 in Sephiroth's place. Kefka is certainly an interesting character, though his moveset may have been a bit more difficult to work out than Sephiroth's.

[@ElFreakinCid]

Kefka's been in a fighter, Dissidia, they have that to work off of at least.

[@BJGvideos]

​@@ElFreakinCidHe's also one of the best characters in that game no less

[@BJGvideos]

That would have been SO MUCH BETTER

[@PrinceDinoboy]

"Incineroar doesn't even use any Dark Type moves!" *Says this while Incineroar uses Darkest Lariat, the Dark type move he uses in Smash* Meant no disrespect, just trying to point out an oversight in a funny way.

[@mr.cereal599]

When it comes to Decidueye vs. Incineroar, I'd like everyone to consider how hard it is to make a Decidueye moveset that isn't just Pit. Spirit Shackle's homing arrow? Basically just Pit's neutral-b. Brave Bird? Basically just Pit's side-b. Leaf blade attacks? Too similar to Pit's attacks. Of course you could come up with a different moveset for Decidueye, but a multi-jump archer with sword attacks is incredibly close as a design concept to Pit. I personally like Decidueye more as a Pokemon, but Incineroar just has a more unique moveset when compared to the rest of Smash Bros' roster. Also Incineroar wasn't in a fighting game that came out 16 months before Ultimate's release, whereas Decidueye was. That's not always a factor of course, but if Sakurai had to choose between a Pokemon that's already been put in a fighting game or a clean slate, I can see why he went for Incineroar. And man this got toxic quick. This is just some theorycrafting folks, not a warzone.

[@neo4420]

you… do realise that most of incineroars moves are “stolen” from other characters? its fine for characters to have the same moves lol, in a game with 90 characters its bound to happen. also i played pokken tourney and he has way more moveset potential so idk what ur talking about

[@neo4420]

also pits entire kit isnt him using bow and arrows, thats only one move. If it was his entire character and if he was an archer then yeah id agree

[@artimist0315]

Incineroar is then just a ganondorf clone. A neutral B which is just a big hit ? a side B command rab ? No mobility ? a trash recovery ? Heavyweight ? While I agree deciduy could have been similar to pit or falco, this type of fast jack of all traits archetype is way more verstatile in concept than you standard heavygrappler. Personnally I wanted spirit shackles to verry briefly slow down your oponent's momentum (a bit like a super quick witch time), that only would have made him unic. But even then, I think a lot of moves could have been made significantly more unic. You dalk about brave bird but seeing its animation and effect in game, It would have acted more like a more horizontal incineroar up B. He could have had a unic down air resembling one of rathalos attack in the World of light. Incineroar already has one of the most recycled moveset in ultimate, jab is falcon, filt luig f smash, down tilt zss or inkling, down smash k rool, up air falco, fair inking or k rool, back air zss, dair ganondorf or k rool. Given k rool was revealed only slightly earlier and share a lot of his normal, while people complaining about ganondorf's clone status, make the justification for the inclusion of incineroar really weird.

[@mirzapramudya1580]

@@artimist0315 I think I get where he's coming from, altough Deciduye would be a somewhat medium-heavyweight zoner (sort of) Incineroar is a grappler, wich despite the many heavyweight, is not really seen often with the only other fighter I can think of outside my head being Bowser

[@artimist0315]

@@mirzapramudya1580 Incineroar literally play like ganondorf, with only revenge being a significant difference between the two, that only speaks volumes about how "original" the character is. Also incineroar is not less a grappler than DK, or all the other heavyweights for that matter. Grappler doesn't really mean anything in smash anyway, most of the roster has a similar grab and he's far from the only roster member to have a command grab. I don't get how decidueye is limiting in term of moveset, first of all deciduey would probably be a medium-light weight and certainly not a pure zoner. Greninja has his main attack be a projectile, same thing for lucario and they aren't zoners. Also Deciduey is pretty light, it's an owl afterall. He is described as attacking quickly (he isn't fast in the game but gen7 stats look random anyway) which would probably make him unic.

[@tendingpluto5817]

So waluigi really wasn’t even a thought? I would’ve loved to see him

[@mizukittyakinyama]

yeah. honestly, i could say the same for tails. he didn't even show up as an assist trophy unlike knuckles and was reduced to a mii fighter costume. a _dlc_ one which i'm too poor to buy.

[@Doracake]

Wasn't he absent from 3D World?

[@Doracake]

@@mizukittyakinyama I don't think Tails and Knuckles are comparable? They wouldn't fit in Sonic's clone. Waluigi is considered becasue he is from Nintendo's own games.

[@mizukittyakinyama]

@@Doracake i wasn't saying that they could be echo fighters...? i would rather NOT have them be echo fighters. also waluigi wouldn't work as an echo either

[@Doracake]

@@mizukittyakinyama My point is they're not quite comparable. Sonic only got one fighter slot so the only chance for other characters is clone. Meanwhile Mario series belongs to Nintendo so it has much more chance to add new fighters in future Smash titles.

[@pepelagarto8110]

Darkest lariat is a dark type move

[@Hansi99_]

I can't comprehend that they could consider letting a slime in than waluigi

[@YMangaka]

Sakurai doesnt personally hate slimes.. 😒

[@clarabarreto1842]

Ngl slime would be cooler

[@tikprpro03]

Next you should do "What if every Mii costume got in?", specifically talking about full costumes (not hats) and how many new reps a series would have

[@ComradeAlpharius]

Dude imagine Sans's "real" moveset. Imagine his final smash.

[@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214]

@@ComradeAlpharius he piss on you

[@kawaiiprincess3607]

Shantae, Dantae, Doom Guy, Lip, and Zero I would totes love to see as actual characters. Sans, not so much...

[@ElFreakinCid]

@@kawaiiprincess3607 Sans doesn't seem like the type who'd actually take part. The idea of him sending someone dressed as him in his place or just copying Mii Gunner fits his laziness perfectly.

[@BestgirlJordanfish]

I personally think Incineroar was the right call, coming from someone who wanted and preferred Decidueye and even had Rowlet as a starter. Incineroar is so fun and expressive and such a distinct way to play a heavy. A multi-jump archer can be seen a bit within the bits already, even though I could see trapping and rogue-y bits too. If I could have a change to Incineroar, I think having Feint or Throat Chop represent could have been cool for another pass. Feint could maybe shred shields while Throat Chop could give a five second debuff to their properties.

[@ChibiSothe]

Sceptile fans are gone..

[@NoName-cz3wn]

Could've added Blastoise later as an Echo of Bowser. Hold B for Hydro Pump, Up B Rapid Spin, swap Side-B for Skull Bash, Down-B Body Slam.

[@GeneralGorillaSonicOC]

Nah. I think there should've been the Rival Trainer as an echo which he would have Bulbasaur to counter Squirtle, Charmeleon to counter Ivysaur and Blastoise to counter Charizard. His one victory would be "Smell ya later." His reveal would have the Rival Encounter music.

[@assordante2205]

Except Mario and Pokémon are two different game franchises

[@mavriiick]

Except that's really lame

[@WatchVidsMakeLists]

​@assordante2205 So are F-Zero and Zelda, but for some reason Ganondorf was designed as a Captain Falcon clone ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@opalander]

I highly doubt Roy would've been replaced if Takamaru joined Smash. Like seriously doubt.

[@imakekomics]

I dont think ayumi or toon zelda/sheik wouldve replaced anyone, i think the situation they were in was, "would they get in the game or not?", not "would it be this character, or that character." Like i believe roy wouldve been in melee whether takumaru or ayumi made it in or not, im pretty sure the takumaru talks were more about which retro character should be put in, so that wouldve been a discussion including g&w and ice climbers, not roy.

[@ThatOneWeirdFlex]

Waluigi wants a word with you. The man has been personally attacked by Sakurai in every iteration of the games that he's appeared in. How could you forget him?

[@Doracake]

attacked by Sakurai? What is it? Waluigi doesn't have major spotlights is because of Miyaomoto, right? Sakurai doesn't make Mario games?

[@amadeus.7436]

He didn't forget him because Waluigi has never been officially considered for the games.

[@Mertolucio]

I would love to see the rejected pass fighters, Sakurai said that around 70 characters were considered for those last 11 spots

[@JhoF79]

When did he said that?

[@jakeduffles1598]

@@JhoF79 I second this inquiry

[@phantomblue2798]

@@JhoF79 he didn't. Fans just start spreading things and it leads to misinformation.

[@JhoF79]

thought so

[@bunniesiatc449]

@@phantomblue2798 yet they keep the comment up and ignore their mistake.

[@ryft9345]

I once told my friend that I wanted Plusle and Minun in smash ultimate. I had this concept that they could be echoes of pichu with a mechanic where plusle would do more damage to the enemy but also to its self and vice versa, making pichu (and therefore plusle and minun) more interesting as there would be many different ways to play with a risk/reward factor involved. But now that ultimate is wrapped up I guess it's never going to happen, especially since they will probably never even be thought of again for smash.

[@lynnlloydentertainment3993]

Some people say that people would be replaced if new people were added No The only exception is the DLC It’s either Roy or NOT Roy, Either Ganon or NOT Ganon

[@emilyharrison5109]

Definitely some inconsistencies in this video. Takamaru would never replace Roy. I think you misunderstand why characters like Roy were even added in the first place. Melee had 6 months of extra development time, so they decided to add as many clone fighters as possible, they would never have replaced anyone's slot, they were literally just extra characters they could get done quickly. So even implying that Takamaru might have taken Roys slot is straight up incorrect. The analogies weren't really on point, like what world would anyone choose "Urban Champion" over the Ganondorf, who was not only one of the most requested characters at the time, was well known and important. On top of that, Ganon was literally the last character added to Melee, he didn't "replace anyone's slot". He was literally a last minute inclusion. So yea, I think this video would have been better if you just cut out those analogies. They are just plain speculation, and not even based on facts.

[@ElFreakinCid]

Not to mention Roy was literaally put in at the request (or rather, demand) of Nintendo's CEO at the time, to promote a game that wouldn't come until several months after Melee's release.

[@MinMin4theWinWin]

But...incineroars neutral b is a dark type....👀

[@AuraStrikeAce]

Yep. So he actually doesn't have a single Fire type move in Smash. Two of them, Cross Chop and Revenge are Fighting type moves, which doesn't help with the criticism of him looking like a Fire/FIghting type, except not actually.

[@StarWalker-si4nm]

Blastoise could’ve been really cool. He could’ve racked up defense buffs making him take less percent and less knock back. Not only that but some of his moves could’ve instead of having knockback pushed his opponents harder than Mario’s fludd or anything in the game making him have a move that just says “get off me” at all times which is what every heavy wishes they had. He could’ve had used the move rain dance to make his water attacks do more percent and due to his rain dish ability it could’ve potentially slightly heal him through time. Blastoise also learns a move called protect that in the Pokémon games makes you invincible to all moves that make contact with you (excluding the moves made to counter protect like feint). This move can work twice in a row but there’s a really low chance it does. So in smash it could be like pit’s down b except it can’t break but it also could not be used twice in a row. Why would he need this? No idea just thought it would be cool. His down smash could be rapid spin it would work similar to bowser up b except without it being a fast out of shield option and it could work just in the pokemon games by getting rid of anything on field. This would instead get rid of anything on Blastoise like for example Pikmins fire damage poison damage etc. If you have any other ideas or any way to change my own write it down on here. I’d like to read em.

[@TheOmegazerox]

If pokemon trainer got an update rom brawl and wii u to ultimate giving him fully evolved starters would be cool. Blastoise charging his canons like Mario using F.L.U.D and stuff would be cool and all three going mega together for the final smash would be awsome.

[@e554]

that sounds both exceedingly boring to play as and annoying to play against, glad that's not in the game

[@odd435]

I would’ve liked Blastoise to be a Bowser like clone, but change his specials. He’d have Mario’s FLUD (Hydro Pump), Bowser’s Up B (Rapid Spin), DK’s Side B for Skull Bash, and….maybe Withdraw. Idk

[@zigazav1]

Takamaru was actually in TWO videogames up to today. The Mysterious Mursame Castle, and also that weird Wii game, Captain Rainbow, that was a Japan exclusive and has yet to be ported anywhere. Captain Rainbow is a weird game, but the island the gameplay takes place on in that game, is a love letter to "forgotten" Nintendo characters, at the time. Nintendo characters you could consider as "forgotten by Nintendo" at the time of it's release, were present on that island in that game. Characters like Birdo, who was very rarely used by Nintendo at the time, as well as Little Mac, as, at the time of Captain Rainbow's release, he hadn't been used in games in a very long time

[@Doracake]

Captain Rainbow is non-canon to most guests so I doubt it works.

[@amadeus.7436]

One of the Samurai Warriors games on the Wii, that I played as a kid, also had a Murasame Castle mode that was a 3D re-imagining of the original.

[@notacat57]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure Lucas was planned for Smash Melee at a point in the development of Mother 3 on the Nintendo 64. Lucas was going to replace Ness in Melee but when it was found out that Mother 3 was getting delayed he was scrapped and Ness was added back into the game. It took another 6 years for Lucas to get into Smash Bros when Mother 3 was finally released on the GBA and not the N64

[@jordonspence5633]

Thank you for video, it was well done! Though I gotta disagree with Takamaru being a better overall pick for Smash over Roy. Roy's inclusion in Super Smash bros. Melee along with Marth heavily contributed to Fire Emblem's relevancy outside of Japan. Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword or Fire Emblem for the GBA was the first game in the franchise to be released outside of Japan. That game was the prequel to Roy's game, Fire Emblem: Binding Blade which is why Roy was included in Melee. Marth and Roy are incredibly important to Fire Emblem's current success and relevancy. Roy is currently one of the most popular Fire Emblem characters and he's one of the most popular smash characters. There's a reason they brought him back as DLC in Smash 4 so he isn't irrelevant in the slightest. Now Takamaru could've been a potentially interesting character in smash but it's kinda disingenuous to undermine Roy's inclusion for what it meant for his home series and even smash.

[@tylerfisher4661]

I find it so funny how much you despise min min, like yeah character is suboptimal, I just never found her bad enough to the point where I was angered by it, although I don’t like being edge guarded from center stage

[@dandydanthedapperman7797]

Out of the arms characters she’s kind of boring. I wanted the slime one because you would have to switch between defending and attacking at range with managing your position .

[@tylerfisher4661]

@@dandydanthedapperman7797 yeah I agree he would’ve been cool. I wanted max brass cos he’s cool as a character but he would’ve been even more uninspired then min min. I’m just glad we didn’t get spring man, he’s the most boring imo

[@ElFreakinCid]

She was also the winner of the 2019 Party Crash Bash tournament.

[@pfantxsmash9150]

this video is so well put together nice job man.

[@egateqa1351]

I always think the reason why Heihachi wasn't included into Smash was because he already appeared in PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale as a fighter, which might be the reason why Nintendo couldn't include Heihachi or even Dante. And It would be cool if Bartz, Terra, and Cloud share the same slot and have a Final Smash that's similar to the Hero (Erdrick, Solo, Eight, and Luminary) from Dragon Quest. But instead of the rest of the Dragon Quest Protagonists it's the rest of the Final Fantasy Protagonists. This also goes with Sephiroth if he was paired with Kefka from Final Fantasy VI and either Gilgamesh or Exdeath from Final Fantasy V, and the final smash is the rest of the Final Fantasy Antagonists, now that might've been cool to see.

[@anthonywilliamces3949]

Plusle and Minun could have been a great addition to the roster that could work similar to the ice climbers and could have represented double battles in the games, they could also use Helping Hand since that's a move exclusive in Double battles.

[@ian_2006]

Actually I don't think it was going to be like that because source gaming said they don't think so because ice climbers have their own files while plusle and minun are the same file so they think it was gonna be a Olimar and Alph Situation.

[@valorousAV]

always down for a Siiroth vid, keep up the great work man!

[@TetraTheThief]

I don’t think Toon Link would’ve been replaced by Toon Zelda/Sheik(Tetra), but man I’m sad we never got em

[@lorenzomccoy5138]

27:31 I like how he slowly zooms in on Heihachi, as he beats down on Paul.

[@incognitoinhell8742]

In terms of Square reps, I'm honestly kinda surprised we didn't get one of the 6 l'cie from Final Fantasy 13, most likely Lightning as she's on the box art of all 3 titles in the series, and she is the *main* main character of the 13 series. At face value, given the series' history, a FF13 character being used as a Square rep would seem like a bad idea, but given the recent resurgence of the 13 series, along with it receiving a more positive reception nowadays than it did between the release of 13-2 and Lightning Returns, I really don't think it would've been that far of a stretch to see Lightning as a playable character. Because of her branding as a l'cie, she has a ton of moveset potential, probably acting similar in style to Sora where she can cycle through magic attacks, use fast, light damaging combos with her Blazefire Saber, and have Arsenal of One or her Eidolon summon, Odin, as her Final Smash. Not only that, but they'd also have an easy time costume wise with Lighting as she has 3 distinct looks from across the 13 series, being her Guardian Corp uniform from 13, her Knight of Etro armour from 13-2, and the Equilibrium Garb from Lightning Returns. While I definitely agree that Cloud and Sephiroth are the stronger picks as the main Square reps in Smash, for the next game, if it ever happens, I could totally see them doing a similar thing with Lighting, assuming their relationship with Square holds strong. But, given the fact that Crisis Core Reunion is coming to the Switch, I'd say their relationship, for now, is still pretty strong.

[@Doracake]

Hope that she is the new rep in next Smash?

[@sir.metaknight1718]

I’m pretty sure that Bandana Dee was planed for Ultimate but was also scraped 😭😭😭

[@sir.metaknight1718]

@Emmanuel Brijandez Torres Google

[@ian_2006]

That could explain why he doesn't appear in the background of king dedede's final smash.

[@amadeus.7436]

Nah. This is just a lie. Nobody working on Smash have ever said a word about Bandana Waddle Dee.

[@L_3.0]

Saw 47 minutes and immediately subbed, you deserve it

[@KunoichiPeri]

I agree with most of this...except 36:14....I think if they had gone the other way..we would still have gotten Cloud..maybe not Seph., but Cloud yes...in fact, if they had...we may have even had a domino effect and had even more Main protagonists added...I would gladly trade Seph. if we get Terra, The warrior of Light, and others! Hell, they could have even gone crazy and done EVERY protagonist. Certainly would have been a smart move on Squire's part given the complete and utter death of the Dissidia games! Also...Phoenix Wright!! How could you forget the literal runner up...of the friggin popularity poll...seriously!

[@keeshuunedited5678]

I used to hate the fact that incineroar got in the game over decidueye, but after playing with the whole roster a bunch. I understand why he was chosen now. He's debatably the character with the strongest emphasis on grappling people in the roster. Also, having a grappler to go fight the more traditional fighting game characters is also a bonus. Also Incineroar feels like a spiritual successor to Brawl/Smash 4 Ganondorf due to Ganondorf being much larger and having a sword. Also while most people prefer to play Decidueye. Who would you rather fight? A slow tanky dude you can beat up all day? Or someone that keeps pelting you with arrows throughout the match to keep you out? Also considering how simplified Ultimate is, and how it's to appeal to more people, it really makes sense why Incineroar was chosen. With all that said, yes, I too would prefer to play as Decidueye. At least we got the Links, Byleth, and Pits for archers, and we got plenty of other projectile based characters in the game as well. I still find it shocking they chose Sephiroth, and gave him such a good trailer. Surely there was a better pick... With that said, he was basically a dream pick for me as he one of the 4 I wanted all the way back in Melee (Meta Knight, Alucard, and Ridley being the other). Sephiroth instantly became my main.

[@mynamisrazzberryazzy]

Even though he wasn't a rejected character, Conker and Spyro are two miss opportunities

[@albertthepeacock8020]

Gotta put in Steve and P/M to pander to the kids and weeaboos because f*ck potentially fun characters with interesting movesets when you could give those two spammy moves

[@thedailybrowser5951]

Crash Bandicoot. That's all ima say.

[@pochijp]

@@albertthepeacock8020 go crying somewhere else

[@YMangaka]

Conker would've never pass the rated-E policy.. and should they have changed him to make it fit, it wouldnt have been him anymore.

[@mynamisrazzberryazzy]

@@YMangaka there are alot of custom movesets that you can find for him that still portray the character nicely

[@superairdog6136]

9:36 From the language here, it sounds like Roy isn't being considered as Japan Only, even though he AND Marth definitely were Japan only at the time of Melee's release. The 2 of them were considered to be scraped from the game for other regions due to the Fire Emblem games only being in Japan. The west had no clue who the 2 were or what FE was before Melee, which prompted them releasing FE games in the west cause we got interested.

[@THEEND4444]

Krystal is the one from this list I wanted in Smash most

[@thunder1_2]

I wonder why 💀

[@Mungusdofu]

@@thunder1_2 Ayo wdym by that

[@ShadowWolfTJC]

If Plusle and Minun were in Brawl (and/or later games), I'd have imagined seeing them as more than a pair of Pikachu clones that would've stuck together like the Ice Climbers. For starters, what if Plusle and Minun were designed in a way that showcased the Double Battle system introduced with Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire in such a way that would make their tag team playstyle seem like an evolution above the Ice Climbers' more basic tag-team system, such as, say, sticking close together for stronger attacks with less finesse (due to Plusle and Minun's abilities, Plus and Minus respectively, which increases their powers if a Pokemon with the other ability was present on the field), and being able to split up for less powerful, but more technical attacks (more like Rosalina and Luma, only with Luma standing still), leaving the follower behind to provide long-range support from far away until recalled (like with Olimar's recall pikmin move)? I could also imagine that they could've also made Plusle and Minun's movesets different yet similar (like with Pyra and Mythra), and that there could've also been a move that would've allowed the player to switch between the two (unless one of them were KOed). I could also see them incorporate a mechanic where Plusle and Minun could each ionize their opponents, causing them to take increased damage and knockback if hit with the teammate with the opposite charge (such as if hit by Plusle if negatively charged by Minun, or if hit by Minun if positively charged by Plusle).

[@fl0_hrl]

I'm still so mad for Roc Pikmin not being here ... they would have had a greater shield break potential and less ejection power. Right ? Sounds like perfect for me.

[@thedailybrowser5951]

Maybe the trade off is making the recovery a bit worse? Like make the Rock Pikmin very powerful, but have it make so you would most likely not be coming back... Also Pink Pikmin should be available as a Pickible Pikmin.

[@fl0_hrl]

@@thedailybrowser5951 nope in the base Game Pikmin 3, their biggest quality is to be capable of breaking crystal like matters like glass or ice or an actual crystal. They are then the 2nd strongest hitting Pikmin in 3.

[@thedailybrowser5951]

@@fl0_hrl Yes, but I'm thinking they would be quite heavy. ...for obvious reasons.

[@fl0_hrl]

@@thedailybrowser5951 they're strangely as heavy as normal Pikmins in the source game

[@thedailybrowser5951]

@@fl0_hrl Huh. Weird. I really need to play Pikmin 3.

[@ZenKrio]

32:20 With Super Mario RPG being remade, Geno is now BACK!

[@Valnanailo]

Simple guess for the Heihachi vs Kazuya, but with the devil gene you have easy options for recovery and range, but Heihachi doesn't have anything like that, so he may have all of the normals, but specials was probably difficult to think of

[@milesuponmyles8898]

Well I mean, just saying if there is another smash game (which I’m not saying there might be, it’s highly unlikely), then we might actually get some of these characters. Mabye even as dlcs. But still I think the smash series is finished to be honest but I genuinely wouldn’t mind another smash game.

[@gechoman44iwantahippo]

I still think Alph should have made it in as an echo fighter. Guvibg him the exact sane moveset as Olimar but giving him his own slot would have been better than leaving him as an alt. It feels weird having a separate character as an alt, aside from very specific circumstances, since coming up with 7 alts for Bowser Jr. would have been pretty hard, and as much as I want to justify giving each Koopaling their own slot, I don’t think that would have gone over well, and one of Hero’s main gimmics is being four character in one, so I think that’s justified. Alph just doesn’t feel right where je is right now to me.

[@Liggliluff]

(7:40) Since I don't see anyone mentioning it. Excitebike Arena was a DLC track for Mario Kart 8 for Wii U, which was included in Deluxe.

[@HaloMoride]

You actually gave me a idea a spark to make the legendary pokemons a move set and how they work

[@joshuasmith2486]

One thing I want to know is why the Octolings from Splatoon 2 got rejected. They could have been echo fighters (clones) of the Inklings and there was a huge fan interest in them.

[@amadeus.7436]

I'd rather see them as original characters in a potential sequel. They could use newer weapons.

[@El_Mince]

Fun fact: Sonic was considered for melee.

[@PkmnTrainerAndre]

As well as Lucas (who would've replaced Ness and have had his EB64 design), but since development on his game was cancelled until work being continued on it for the GBA; Ness got to stay in while Lucas would finally make his debut in Brawl.

[@El_Mince]

@@PkmnTrainerAndre yeh.

[@lukejones7164]

Snake too

[@El_Mince]

@@lukejones7164 yeh

[@umbrasunbro2142]

Actually Incineroar is using dark moves:Malicious Moonsault (Final Smash) and his Darkest Lariat( B). He just cloaks them in fire. His other B moved are crosschop (fighting), Alolan Whip (smash original), and Revenge (fighting, but often used on dark types).

[@danielgertler5976]

"Getting into smash can save your series" Captain Falcon: Show yo blues 😢

[@nelmasster]

Man, I'd really love to have Decidueye and Krystal in Smash (I'm glad Wolf returned and Incineroar was a great choice anyways, I wouldn't replace them)

[@ian_2006]

i agree with you

[@brendan_o7]

I’m glad Krystal isn’t in, we have enough furries in the game. Also, she’s very obscure to date

[@TheTrueBrawler]

I am kind of glad that our Star Fox representation is Fox, Falco, and Wolf. Krystal would be nice, but her inclusion isn't a huge priority in my opinion. Cutting Decidueye, however, was probably the worst character decision the Smash team has made of any of the newcomers. He would be so much more unique than Incineroar's wrestling bruiser style. It would also open up the door for Cinderace which could respectably complete the final evolution trio, but even if that weren't the case, we don't have any Grass type final evolutions. Decidueye was the perfect fighter to fill that niche, but we instead have both Incineroar filling the niche of a Fire type final evolution when Charizard was already doing that.

[@ElFreakinCid]

@@brendan_o7 She's not "obscure" at all, and your dislike of furries doesn't factor into shit.

[@brendan_o7]

@@ElFreakinCid i'd argue that most people don't know who Krystal from one star fox game that sold less than a million copies in the US is. Unless you are a furry, or are one of three star fox fans in the world, krystal wouldnt seem to be the best choice for smash...

[@calemr]

When you mentioned "What if Terra had got in", we could have had Kefka. My favourite FF villain, by FAR. There's so much potential for him, move set wise. Just see how he works in Decidia for an example of some of the chaotic ranged zoning he could have pulled off.

[@ElFreakinCid]

Not to mention, which consoles prominently had FF6 released on them? SNES, GBA and Switch. It's primarily been on Nintendo consoles and also originated on one.

[@BJGvideos]

Yessssss oh god that would be so much fun

[@Stelios78910]

28:00 I do think Sakurai's real reasoning for not including Heihachi was his inclusion in PS All-Stars. I don't see Nintendo being happy with a character in a rivals take on Smash, being in Smash. Honestly think his lack of feasibility reasoning was just a cover-up, as he obviously wouldn't mention this. Great vid.

[@calbum7078]

if characters like dark pit didn't get in, we wouldn't have Geno, we'd just have one less character. one character getting in does not snub the slot from another character. if a character gets in, the devs wanted them in. there (probably) isn't a new character quota or limit

[@ElFreakinCid]

It's amazing, Sakurai literally created the Echo concept to EMPHASIZE to our dumb asses that no one loses a slot if someone else gets in, and some people still don't get it.

[@firepopcorn1237]

Any scrapped character > Piranha Plant

[@davey_rulez7301]

The idea that Ike and Lucario were replacements for Roy and Mewtwo is actually a misconception. Despite both of them having similar neutral specials (which was admittedly strange for Ike considering he never uses any attack with normal fire, outside of that one chapter in Radiant Dawn where you commit arson), unused data suggested that Mewtwo and Roy were cut late in development because of time constraints.

[@YMangaka]

So.. they cut off *already made* characters from previous games "because of time constraints" but still manage to add 2 entirely new characters ?!.. ..sorry but that doesnt make any sense.

[@davey_rulez7301]

@@YMangaka Melee and Brawl had completely different engines, so it wasn't as simple as porting them from one game to the other. I know in Project M it took 700 hours to make all of Mewtwo's animations in the Brawl engine. Since the Tellius games and Diamond and Pearl were the newer games, making new characters to represent them is higher priority than porting over the old ones.

[@YMangaka]

@@davey_rulez7301 It still takes more time for the team of programers, designers, modelers, coders, etc to work on two new characters than porting two old ones to a new engine.

[@davey_rulez7301]

@@YMangaka well it would still take time for the programmers, designers, modelers and coders time to add the original characters. That doesn't change the fact that Roy and Mewtwo literally have data in the game that suggested they were planned to be included as fighters but got scrapped.

[@alexifer3092]

Great video man

[@binothekid1732]

I''m a big pokemon fan so i was pretty upset when Siiroth said incineroar doesn't use any dark type moves despite his neutral b being darkest lariat and i got even angrier when he showed incineroar using darkest lariat on screen

[@detectivealex12]

Waluigi has just yeeted himself off a bridge at this point…

[@mikemiller5577]

i really wish a golden sun character got in, like Isaac or Mathew

[@skyqueen3]

With Blastoise I do wonder if Pokemon Trainer was going to have all 3 final evolution forms of the gen 1 starters originally considering as you said, I wish Plusle and Minun got in, they're my favourite non-legendary Pokemon of all time so it makes me a tiny bit sad they missed their only chance. Takamaru man, while I've never played The Mysterious Murasame Castle, I can't help feeling like he got the short end of the stick with not being added to Ultimate as by this point, there were international ports dating to 2014.

[@championregion2078]

13:14 The reason James Bond isn't included in the smash bros roster is because of legal issues, according to The Guiness Book of World Records 2020

[@dannv3yt630]

Greninja is a water and dark type

[@Goo_Guy]

40:52 Y'know Greninja is a dark type, right? Oh and also, his neutral B is darkest lariat.

[@Alias_Anybody]

Richter was the obvious choice here. Getting that Symphony of the Night rep without actually making a completely different character (Alucard). Honestly, the Belmonts are so copy&paste they could have as well also included Trevor and or Julius.

[@zenbmonk1016]

Even though the Excitebike biker got rejected, at least his track has some love in Mario Kart 8. Fun track with great remix of the theme.

[@aaronlo9651]

Nintendog would be weird

[@FoxMcLox]

Duck Hunt Dog: *…*

[@Marcusjnmc]

there were issues with Kazuya, when implemented Kazuya was too slow & got his ass kicked , they made him fit in perfectly after some development though

[@m777t]

King Boo really deserves it, he’s in every Mario Kart and an alternative form as the main antagonist of Luigi’s Mansion, he’s literally way more important than Pirahna Plant and could be a very more interesting moveset for the game🥲

[@Doracake]

But it's hard to do a moveset so maybe he fits in as a boss.

[@toastthemost2473]

They really need to give ganon a float and a charge-release neutral b projectile that flies down at an angle in the air. Then he would be perfect.

[@jameskingscomicsandenterta3504]

You should make a video about all the assist tropies being fighters

[@purcellworthman3199]

The reason Heihachi was an issue and Kazuya wasn't was because one had a good recovery option in their moveset and the other didn't.

[@brandonwilliams6119]

If Sakurai went with Toon Sheik it would’ve been his own Deviantart OC lmao, But yeah it would most likely have been Tetra. Takamaru probably would’ve been too similar to Marth but he’s a Retro Rep, Roy’s game still isn’t even localized unlike Takamaru who’s game was on 3DS Virtual Console. Mach Rider could be interesting but it can also work as an Alt costume of Captain Falcon like in Project+. I absolutely would’ve loved Ayumi Tachibana, the closest thing to Phoenix Wright and is more female representation. I mean look how it worked for Fire Emblem.

[@HeroG9000]

I think Meowth was planned for 64 but they went with Jiggly puff as a they could use Kirby as a base

[@banzaimarten9114]

i love Wolf and it'd kinda hurt to trade him for Krystal, but if that's what it took to get her i'd do it. to this day she's still my most wanted character. on the other hand, i wouldn't hesitate for a second in trading Incineroar for Decidueye. one of my favorite grass-types vs one of my least favorite fire-types? easiest call i could ever make. but for as big of a Zelda fan as i am, i'm glad Toon Zelda didn't make the cut. I want characters that aren't just versions of Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf - give me Midna, Skull Kid, Revali, or Ghirahim. you can even take both small Links and give me just one of these in their place, give me quality over quantity!

[@carloscd6791]

Vaati, Impa.

[@silorion9967]

I wish Amaterasu from Okami was considered at one point.

[@kokotheclown2588]

Fr huh at least as an assist trophy I know that game ain’t as celebrated as other big franchises but it’s such a gem of a game

[@ariobros5537]

None of the characters mentioned replace anybody so you can still add them in just don’t get rid of anybody else

[@SimplyStatistical]

Surprisingly few mentions of Waluigi

[@QuokkaWaka]

Great video, very in-depth! I do disagree with a few opinions though, so I wanted to share what I would change about the "in or out" list. I think Geno would be an excellent choice for Smash, niche or not, having an interesting moveset is more important to me than popularity (usually). You even seemed to have a similar opinion in the case of the ARMS reps, though ironically I disagree and think that the difference wouldn't be large enough to make up for the lack of popularity. I also disagree that plusle and minun would have been that similar to the two chu's, but I think lucario was the better of the two choices regardless. I think decidueye would play too similarly to Pit and Greninja, personally, and I much prefer incineroar's revenge playstyle over anything I can think of for decidueye, and I think his specials are rad. Finally, I think if Rex was with Pyra/Mythra, there would just be too much going on. Icies are already incredibly complex, even with their relatively simple movesets, so I think Sakurai really meant it when he said getting them to move together was impossible. Other than this I agree with everything in the vid, pretty good picks all around

[@autisticreactions4397]

I hundred percent agree that they made the wrong choice of picking wolf over Krystal.

[@GamingintheAM0801]

I'm not even a Star Fox fan, and Wolf always seemed super redundant to me. Falco is already a Fox clone, so now we have three characters with basically identical movesets. It was the original "three Links" situation.

[@KaitouKaiju]

I disagree. Wolf's move set is different enough to be distinct and gives more villain representation of which smash is sorely lacking especially at the time

[@chengthao9070]

Missed opportunity on a monster hunter character and everyone’s favorite wacky purple hat wearing Waluigi.

[@brandonp7503]

With Super Mario RPG's remake being announced this year, we might actually see Geno in the next Smash game.

[@altermann1991]

What I think a lot of people don't see about Decidueye is that in a way it'd actually be similar to Pit being another archer with wings. So I see it more that Incineroar is more unique next to the rest of the smash bros roster, not more unique in general.

[@oscars-h2538]

Meanwhile: Generic swordfighter characters •_•

[@YMangaka]

Ngl, thats the reason why i thought they rejected him tbh. 🙄

[@altermann1991]

@@oscars-h2538 Well these swordfighters are usually chosen to represent specific games and they simply are the best representatives for these games. With Sun and Moon they pretty much just wanted any Pokemon that can represent the games well.

[@oscars-h2538]

@@altermann1991 yeah but pit only has one move that could feasibly be shared with decidueye, the spirit shackles/pits arrow

[@oscars-h2538]

It's not like pit is actually a winged archer in how he plays, he has one move and the rest is other weapons