What If Ned Stark Lived? (Game Of Thrones)

[@daftdwarfgaming.4346]

Unfortunately, having cast Sean bean as Ned stark almost completely made his death an expectation

[@pohenixwielki3178]

Bro, the books made him dead, not actor xD

[@Hubabuba258]

​@@pohenixwielki3178I think it's the joke about Sean Bean always dying in movies/TV series. Rip Boromir

[@amorelus]

@@Hubabuba258 and in James Bond, Golden Eye. "For England James?"

[@BrainyBlonde21]

@@amorelus “No. For me.” one of the best deaths in those movies tbh.

[@eyosyastebeje9555]

​@Hubabuba258 he didnt die in Troy though

[@hades4134]

It also likely that Ned would have died on the way to wall because his injured leg would have gotten infected. In the books the injury was way worse then in the show.

[@silentecho92able]

@motherofcats6494 I bet Ned has at least a week to live at that point prior to being executed. Chances are the North ones news reaches that Ned Died they will construe that as. They didn't treat Ned's wound, or simply maybe left him to die. An the North will take that as a form of execution without it needing to be a public one. Considering in there eyes the Lannisters are willing to kill anyone one way or another be it direct or not.

[@ghostinyourattic3545]

We still dont know what Jacken was doing in the black cells, some think he was there to kill ned but i disagree. Ned was dead no matter what after spending that long in the black cells

[@greenwave819]

they had medicine yo

[@greenwave819]

@motherofcats6494 They had medicine

[@ingwetheafricansoldier9868]

What if we give him plot Armor and a healing by the gods or something? Eh! Don't be a fun spoiler.

[@mckyd6565]

Ned was a true beliver in the old gods, I truly don't think he'd hold an oath to the 7 as scared. If you look at his wording of his confession it all to the 7. Ned stark who spent hours and hours in the gods wood of winterfell, no I don't buy it. I don't think he planned to honour that confession. I can see him pledging support for the one true King stannis baratheon because he would be honored bound to see the rightful king restored and the usuper that killed his men and his best friend, removed.

[@SpongeWatches]

It’s always in the comment section I find someone who makes way more sense than the video

[@Gunleaver]

The question is, who wrote his confession? Did Ned do that deliberately? Or was it written for him by the Lannister regime? Because that is absolutely the sort of detail I could see Cersei overlooking. One problem with this theory, however, is that Ned is not a rules lawyer or all about technicalities. He has no problem straight up lying for a good cause, as he does more than once, and tells Arya it's acceptable, and even defends Sansa's claim to not remember the fight with Joffrey. Ned does not cross his fingers or say "Mayhaps" to give himself an out, he just tells the lie he needs to flatly. And the whole point of this is to make a public confession that will support Joffrey's claim. The oath is not to bind Ned but to make him believable to the crowd, who DOES believe in the Seven and revere the memory of Baelor. If Ned turns around and backs Stannis, the vast majority of Westeros who worships the Seven are going to be livid at his oath-breaking and not going to accept "well, they ain't my gods, suckers!" as an excuse. I think Ned was going to go the Wall and keep his mouth shut and maybe tell his wife and son, "If Stannis makes some wild accusations, give him a good listen. I said what I had to save Sansa and that's all."

[@SpongeWatches]

@@Gunleaver Joffrey has no claim to the throne!! And no authority to send someone to the wall!!

[@Gunleaver]

@@SpongeWatches NO ONE has the authority to send anyone to the Wall. It's a voluntary commitment. What a king (or anyone with a practical advantage can do) is give you a choice of death or the Night's Watch. They NEVER phrase it as Joffrey sending Ned to the Wall, instead they say things like "allow him to take the black". When they talk about sending a man to the Wall it means the sender gave the man the choice of death or joining up, and arranged his transportation. It's not a sentence, it's an alternative to execution or mutilation.

[@mckyd6565]

@@Gunleaver fair point

[@pckrichards7980]

Ned as lord commander would be great. Also, Jon not getting shanked is good too

[@greenwave819]

ur an odd bird lol

[@ryanmann9842]

You dare prevent Sean Bean from dying?! HERESY!!!!!

[@TheEmpyreanSpeaks]

It had to be done.

[@ryanmann9842]

@@TheEmpyreanSpeaks here's an idea: What if Cersei didn't conscript/restore the faith militant Or Tywin didn't get killed by Tyrion Lannister

[@billymakale1338]

​@@TheEmpyreanSpeaksHey, what if there was no white walkers. The northern threat consists of a massive wilding combined army. How do you think this would affect the current storyline

[@martynwhittingham5685]

What if Ned Stark lived? He’d look pretty strange without a head.

[@sd4mg]

Eddard Stark making it to the Wall, probably after the Great Ranging, would lead to Ned taking command right away, believing Jon about the wildling attack, definitely being able to call upon the Northern Houses' reserve forces to help the Nights Watch. Maybe him being in charge means more Wildlings die, and makes the fight against the Others even more difficult. Who knows.

[@AlyssMa7rin]

Once he sees the truth of the Others, though, would he even fight the Wildlings? He’d know, from Jeor and Jon, that every dead is a new soldier in the Army of the Dead.

[@arvintyree1109]

Some people believe joffery choose to execute Ned because littlefinger advised it and I'm pretty sure in the books it was mentioned he did tell joffery to "dew it". I think it was when tyrion returned to kings landing and asked cersie why joffery had Ned beheaded. I think in this what if time-line Ned lived because littlefinger chose not to recommend Ned's head to joffery in some twisted scheme to get closer to catlyn

[@LordBloodraven]

Now I'm imagining Littlefinger shouting "Unlimited Powah!"

[@brunoactis1104]

I'm exactly there in the books and i do not remember that in the Cersei conversation with Tyrion.

[@ccouch713]

If Ned met Gendry during their journey to the wall, I think Ned would have told him that he's a Baratheon before Gendry could say his vows. Like he wouldn't do it right away, but definitely when they're safe in the north. I could also see Stanis taking Gendry as his heir since he doesn't really have one (or atleast one that is expected to live for long).

[@brianrose85]

Minor point -- if Yorick was transporting a high profile prisoner like Ned Stark (who the Lannisters very much want to make sure reaches the Wall), he would likely be given ships to carry said prisoner and other Watch recruits (including Arya) directly to Eastwatch, rather than taking the King's Road (esp there'd be little point in taking him to the Wall by way of Winterfell).

[@brianrose85]

Second (minor) point -- if Ned reaches Castle Black before the Great Ranging begins, and participates in said ranging, would Jon still be chosen to be part of the Qhorin expedition? If not, is it possible none of the Night's Watch goes deep undercover with Mance Raydar? Is so...

[@richardfitzpatrick9732]

Ned would of been rescued as soon as he reaches the North he wouldnt go too the wall straight too Winterfell call the Banners claim for stannis send letters too Riverlands for support which they would give maybe the Vale even Lysa wouldnt of been able too hold of the lords for long

[@brianrose85]

@@richardfitzpatrick9732 Technically, the Wall is its own jurisdiction; so if Ned is shipped directly to Eastwatch (circumventing the North entirely), a lot of how far Cersei's plan to banish Ned gets will depend on what Cotter Pyke does.

[@SerfinBird]

​@@richardfitzpatrick9732 Can't be too sure. Ned knows the horrors of war and his honor might keep him from wanting to go to war. He also swore to go to the wall, he bore the shame of a bastard for years just to keep his oath to protect Jon.

[@GalayethZen]

@@richardfitzpatrick9732 Ned Stark is a man of honor and would not go back on his word.

[@Gunleaver]

*The Rebellion had NOTHING TO DO WITH LYANNA's FEELINGS* The Rebellion started, not to get Lyanna back, but when Aerys murdered a Lord Paramount & Warden, along with his heir, with only a farce of a trial and did the same to father-son pairs from three other noble Houses of the Riverlands and Vale of Arryn, and then demanded Jon Arryn break the laws of hospitality and guest right and murder Ned Stark, the new Lord Paramount of the North and Robert Baratheon, Lord Paramount of the Stormlands and 4th in line for the Iron Throne, who were guests in his home as well as men he had sworn to guard as his own sons. This array of crimes was an offense to the rights and powers of the entire noble class and a direct affront to the Riverlands, Vale of Arryn and North, and their overlords, Ned Stark, Hoster Tully & Jon Arryn. It was at this point that Jon, Ned & Robert rebelled against the crown. Furthermore, Lyanna's feelings don't legitimize Rhaegar's actions. Lyanna was no older than 15, that makes her a minor, and not legally able to give consent, and makes Rhaegar's action statutory rape and kidnapping, no matter how eager she was. Rhaegar violated the compact between the Starks and the Baratheons, in arranging the marriage between Lyanna & Robert, which is sacred and the sort of thing the crown is supposed to protect and uphold. If ANYONE else had run off with Lyanna, Robert & the Starks would have gone to the king to complain and the king would be expected to order Lyanna returned to her father & betrothed. Because it's the LAW. The fee-fees of a teenage girl have nothing to do with it. Finally, by the time Ned got to the Tower, I doubt Lyanna loved Rhaegar anymore. Her dying wish was to be buried next to Brandon & Rickard, the father she defied by running off with Rhaegar. There is no way she could retain her love for a man who supported their murderer and made war against the brother she loved. Dayne, Hightower and Whent were there not to protect Lyanna, but to keep her in custody. If it was protection, why interfere with her brother coming to see her? Why would they believe Ned meant her harm? Because Lyanna had long since turned against their boss and would be out of there like she was shot from a gun, if her brother showed up. They were there to keep her prisoner for Rhaegar, because she was no longer with him of her own free will. The show is bullshit, she certainly never gave him a Targaryen name.

[@MiguelMartinez-uh3pm]

You are mostly correct apart from the fact that in westeros, women had near to no rights. She does not have a say on who to be marry with and age is irrelevant. The curious thing is to think if Elia Martell would as a southern who are more open, to share a husband. Probably the problem of lyannas consent was that he told it to Benjen Stark and he did not tell it to his father, because he despised Robert

[@Gunleaver]

@MiguelMartinez-uh3pm Basically wrong. In SoS, Sansa notes that if a woman refuses to say vows, "not even the High Septon" can marry her against her will. Women ate also recognized as having inheritance rights through parents and marriage. That's why Lady Hornwood is still Lady Hornwood and the title has not immediately devolved on her late husband's closest blood-kin. In the case of Lyanna, she IS underage, with 16 being stated on more than one instance to be the age of adulthood. Prior to that, the consent of a girl's father or guardian is required. That was the point in Sansa's marriage, that the Lannisters were claiming a legal technicality to authorize her marriage for their convenience. The fact that even as arrogant and authoritarian rulers as Cersei & Tywin felt the need to cite their lawful authority shows that, yes, there are laws and rights about who can marry a woman, and that a crown prince can't just wave his hand and make it lawful. Also, where do you get the idea that Elia would be okay? "Southern" refers to people from south of the Neck, and even in the Vale or riverlands, it can mean the Reach & Stormlands. Mace Tyrell is Warden of the South. If you mean Dornish, still bullshit. They might have fewer restrictions on pre- or extra-marital sex, but there is not the slightest hint of Dornish or Rhoynar polygamy. The Targaryens' practice was reviled by the Faith, which is the religion of Dorne, and the royals had to give it up in order to keep inbreeding. Furthermore, Elia's marriage was a political action, to get advantages to her family and see her son inherit the throne. Additional spouses, ESPECIALLY given her own fertility issues are a dire threat to everything she and her family sought to gain by her marriage. Why would she be okay with that? Why would this "good and gentle" woman be okay with her 20-something husband taking a 14 or 15 year old girl as a sex partner? Why would she, since there is no indication of her being stupid, give her blessing to a course of action that would turn two of the most powerful families in the realm, along with their considerable allies, against her husband, and by extension, their children?

[@Windjammers1]

Ned shouldn't have said anything to Cersei. He should have taken Sansa and Arya out of there, get to safety, then tell Robert.

[@_somerandomguyontheinternet_]

Except he was never going to do that. The memories of what happened to the Targaryen children weighed on his mind too much. He wanted to give Cersei a way out. He knew it was tactically a bad idea, but his guilt and his morals drove him to it.

[@mryoungandbrave1]

He was going to send Sansa and Arya away, then Sansa threw a fit, said she'd give Joffrey children little lion children with golden hair, and when Arya said Joffrey was a stag like Robert, not of a lion, Sansa said Joffrey wasn't anything like Robert. This is how Ned puts it together, Jon Arryn was investigating Robert's bastards because Cersei's children weren't Robert's. Ned gets distracted by this, tells Cersei to take her children and leave, Robert dies and Ned is killed.

[@AdeptKing]

Honestly if he just kept his mouth shut and told Robert when he got back it probably would have been fine. I'm a bit sketchy on the details but did Cersei already plan to have Robert drugged before Ned confronted her or was it after?

[@mryoungandbrave1]

@AdeptKing When Robert came back, he'd been struck by the boar. The only Maester available was Pycelle, who's loyal to House Lannister. Ned also knew that if he told Robert, Robert wouldn't just kill Cersei and Jaime, he'd kill Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella. Ned argued with Robert about Elia and her children, he saw Joffrey and his siblings innocent of their parent's crimes, and he knew Robert would kill them. He was warning Cersei to take her children and leave, he wasn't expecting Cersei to have him killed, because he was so used to the honourable and just people of the North, and not the backstabbing of King's Landing.

[@archersterling8707]

The conflict would end if Ned lived. Even Tywin knew it would. Sansa would also still be kept to ensure no new rebellions. Arya would make it to the north since robb wouldn't be dead and most likely yoren wouldn't be in a destroyed town but one under the protection of a Lord. So gendery probably dies.

[@aslaksockcraft]

If ned stark was sent to the wall he would certainly be sent by ship.

[@matheusdemello2323]

What if Lucerys lost his eye *instead* of Aemond? What if both Lucerys & Aemond died in episode 10? What if Aemma Arryn last child, Baelon was born a girl that married Aegon-II? What if Viserys had Aegon II married Rhaenyra *After* Laenor’s death? What if Rhaenyra was like Jaehaerys The Conciliator? What if Rhaenyra Targaryen married Borros Baratheon? What if Viserys-I made Rhaenyra Hand Of The King after Otto’s dismissed/Lyonel’s death? What if Viserys-I made Rhaenys Hand Of The King after Otto’s dismissed/Lyonel’s death? What if Viserys-I made Daemon Hand Of The King after Otto’s dismissed/Lyonel’s death? What if Rhaenyra married Otto after Alicent married Viserys? What if Aegon-III lived longer and made his Daughter Daena hair after the death of his sons? What if Myrcella “Baratheon” married Robb Stark instead Joffrey & Sansa? What if Jamie Lannister was at the Tower Of Joy instead of Gerold Hightower?

[@Rztro1544]

Now you have me wanting for a full fanfic depicting Ned at the Wall during the events of the books

[@bobsnow6242]

One has to travel through the North to reach the Wall, and while Ned may personally accept banishment out of honor I do understand why Joffrey might be hesitant to let him go after he openly attempted to incite sedition against the crown. Even if Ned convinced his bannermen in the North to stand down and allow him to serve his punishment, it's inevitable that he'd quickly rise in the ranks of the Night's Watch and could potentially become a thorn in the crown's side by swaying the realm's ostensibly neutral border guard into becoming more sympathetic to the adjacent North under his son's rule. If a hair was touched on Sansa's head I have no doubt that even the duty-bound Ned would defect and lead an open rebellion, and very few in the North would accept his sentence to the Night's Watch as legitimate anyway since it was passed by a bastard and not a true king. Joffrey's wisest move would likely have been somewhere in between. Keep him alive in a dungeon in King's Landing, but well-fed and relatively well-treated to avoid the possibility of him dying in captivity. He'd make a far more useful hostage than Sansa and probably prevent Robb and Catelyn from engaging in open rebellion. He'd still have Stannis to deal with but that would be a far easier task without having to fight a two-front war.

[@rugratrik]

You forgot to mention the interesting dillema Ned would face, should he return to the North/Wall: When next he sees Jon, and they talk about his True Lineage, then.... Who in King's Landing would believe them? After all, Ned was sént to the Wall for 'faking' the Lineage of Joffrey. And now, not a year later, he returns, wíth the Northmen, to claim hís bastard is the Rightful King and Heir to Rhaegar? He would be laughed out of court, even if they had the proof.

[@jmprues]

If Ned was allowed to take the Black he probably would have been killed by the faceless man unless sent by ship. If the North delayed Stannis probably would have gained the North and Riverlands. Ned would still take the black and probably stay for life.

[@sylviatamieanan4088]

16:24 Ned's plan was to tell Jon about Lyanna AFTER he had taken his vows.

[@andrewcabral963]

Man Ned would have much respect at the men of the wall as much as Maximus from Gladiator had with his men.

[@josueguillen4111]

I think that Robb doesn’t become King in the North, but just leads a campaign to rescue their sisters and come to peace terms… this would make it more likely for them to team up with either of the Baratheon brothers, more likely Stannis.

[@mdguy35]

Have you done a What if Lyanna Lived?

[@TheRealMarneusCalgar]

He'd get killed by a faceless man who was being sent to the wall despite faceless men being infamous for not getting caught and seemed to have no specific mission. Jaquen was a back up plan for baelish.

[@LS-jv9hp]

Theres still a large amount of doubt if Jaquen was bought by Little Finger. Especially it'd be quite strange to waste all that gold until at least confirming joffrey wont chop his head off. Alongside him speculated to be at Oldtown which would point to him having greater business there.

[@Nareto64]

With all due respect, I greatly disagree with the way you predict these what ifs. I’ve seen this one, and the one about Tyrion being tall, so take what I say with a grain of salt. However, I believe you try too hard to keep things as close to the canon timeline as possible, and you fail to see how changing these greatly important events would drastically change everything else, exponentially so. You just kind of keep things as they were or close to as they were, with no real justification for why the characters would do such things. To be absolutely specific, in the case of this video you make the case that Ned would go North with Yorren and Arya, and that Sansa would stay in King’s Landing. This makes no sense, because what is stopping Robb from continuing his rebellion? The thing stopping him, in this scenario is NECESSARILY Ned sending a raven and commanding him to stand down. Why would Ned do that? For his own life? No, he would only do it on the agreement that Sansa and Arya be returned to winterfell. He IS absolutely in a position to negotiate. In regards to the Tyrion being tall video, you made the assertion that Tyrion would marry Lysa, and that Roberts Rebellion would go almost exactly as it should be, and that major differences would only come into play during the time of the main series… However that makes no sense. Why would Robert marry Cersei at the end of the war, when the Lannisters would already be bound to the rebellion alliance by blood through Tyrion/Jaime and Lysa? The reason Robert married Cersei was to hold the realm together, by uniting his alliance with the most powerful neutral house of the rebellion. If he doesn’t marry Cersei, there’s no Joffrey, no death of Jon Arryn or Ned, no war of the Five Kings.

[@Gogomogo-Ogomogog]

You should do a “What if Robert didnt die to the boar” Would he believe ned? Would ned have warned cersei? Would tywin declare war on the crown if robert had jaime, cersei, and there kids killed? Who would be the robert’s new bride and queen? Margery? melisandra? Daenrys? Margery would be proposed by renly, Melisandra could go for robert instead of stannis since he isnt the rightful king, or varys could propose a marriage between Robert and daenrys. Baratheon and Targaryen child on the throne

[@kenrickbryan4077]

Ned would have been sent to the wall by ship. That seems to be the way high profile prisoners are transported to the wall in this universe

[@Gunleaver]

Robb lost very little when he executed Lord Karstark (who is NOT his kin - the connections are too far back, and as Robb points out, the kinship did not stop Rickard from betraying Robb). He had already sent his men out hunting Jaime before he was arrested. Rickard was basically acting to spite Robb. Keeping him and his army was never an option. The turning point for Roose & Walder betraying Robb was NOT his marriage, it was the capture of Winterfell and Stannis' defeat on the Blackwater. If Stannis has supporters in the North & Riverlands, he likely takes his fleet & army up to the Trident to link up with Robb & Edmure, so as to finish off Tywin or march on Kings Landing. Furthermore, the Tyrells are not joining Team Joffrey while Renly is alive and married to Margaery, so the manpower that enabled Tywin's victory on the Blackwater is never manifesting. Likely Robb would carry out the same plan as in the books, a chevauchee through the West to lure Tywin away from the capital, so Stannis can storm the city and kill Joffrey and claim the throne. It would be a case of crushing the Lannisters and then it's Renly's turn. Stannis & Robb are two of the greatest military leaders in Westeros, and Renly is an idiot at tactics and logistics, as we see in aCoK. He's toast. Petyr dies or flees the day Stannis takes the Red Keep, and Lysa might rebel against Stannis for his sake, but the vale lords would never tolerate her doing so and depose her as regent. If Stannis is on the Iron Throne with the backing of the Starks & Tullys and Royces, a lot of the Storm lords will rethink their allegiance to Renly, and probably some of the Reachermen too. As soon as the Young Wolf and the Iron King win their first victory over the knights of summer, Renly will find himself bereft of support and crawling back to beg Stannis' forgiveness.

[@seanmcclure]

This is the greatest what if aside from Catlin finding out who Jon’s real parents were. I would love to have seen where this was revealed to her.

[@phenomenal-xv4ey]

I would have liked a scene with Tywin and Ned, i think it would have been a game changer.

[@benjaminngopwaamos6878]

I always think if the north had given their alliance and support to Stannis, he'd have had the support of the Vale and Riverrun. He would've definitely won the war. The only allies the crown would've had would be The Westerlands, and the Reach. Dorne, as it is already hate the Lannisters.

[@JohnGoetzGaming]

What if he didn't trust peter and didn't warn Cersei?

[@everyday4play401]

I respect the video and do like it, but I have to point out, if Ned lost his titles and holdings and was sent to the wall the title wouldn’t be passed down to his son. Titles are only inherited or bestowed. If Ned had his title as warden of the north taken it would be given to someone else, more than likely rouse Bolton. Now whether or not the north would accept that is more than a fair argument but that’s how that would’ve happened.

[@kcald24]

Wouldn’t this mean Jaqen H'ghar would’ve been brought to the wall too?

[@roentgen571]

The whole scene where, at the crossroads, Ned tells Jon that the next time they saw each other Ned would tell Jon about his mother was extremely significant. The next time they saw each other, Jon would be sworn into the Night's Watch and Ned would be Hand of the King. Ned could let the cat out of the bag then--Jon wouldn't be in danger from Robert any more. Jon would be forever banned from a claim to the throne by his oaths (much like Maester Aemon), and Ned would be in a position to protect him by being Hand and very close to Robert. Jon, being raised by Ned and taking to heart Ned's values, would accept his role in the Night's Watch, eventually become Lord Commander, and have all his attention focused on that role and care nothing about the politics of the area south of the Wall. What threw all of this into turmoil was Ned's going to King's Landing and discovering Jaime's and Cersei's little secret, and Robert's simultaneous hunting accident. There are so many "what ifs?" If Littlefinger and Lyssa had delayed Jon Arryn's assassination by a year or two, Arryn would have told Robert about his findings, and all of that would have errupted without involving the Starks at all, and who knows when/if Jon Snow would have joined the Night's Watch. If all of that came out, Cersei, Jaime, Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella taken out of the picture, then what? Robert marries Margaery Tyrell? Robb marries one of the Bear Island girls, or Yara Greyjoy, maybe Meera Reed? Sansa or Arya would probably get married off to Theon, one of the Tyrell brothers, or maybe Jojen? Could Sansa be married to Edmure Tully? That's her uncle by blood. It'd be weird, but Westerosi noble families have done stranger things. It'd be a mess. And any of that stuff would cause all sorts of conflicts and problems...like, imagine Robb Stark marrying Arianne Martell. I can just imagine how happy that couple would be living in either the North or in Dorne.

[@Gunleaver]

While I like a lot of the thinking in this alt scenario, I have to disagree about Stannis reinstating Ned. Stannis takes things like oaths seriously. At the least, he's going to be pissed that Ned swore a false oath naming Joffrey as the rightful king. Stannis "laws should be made of iron, not pudding" Baratheon is not going to wipe away the consequences of a choice he would see as immoral, of his own free will. Stannis would have died before swearing falsely to a king he knew to be illegitimate, and that's the standard he holds everyone else to. He's not at all forgiving of the men who swear to Joffrey under threat of death after being captured at the Blackwater, not even the men who follow their lords' commands in doing so. Given that Robb had already captured Jaime, Stannis would see Ned's confession as an even less forgivable weakness, since all he would have had to do is hold out a few more days, for word to reach court of the new hostage situation, and then no one would dare harm or threaten him. Stannis would expect more fortitude, ESPECIALLY from the man who received the love and regard from Robert that Stannis longed for, but never received.

[@notapplicable1296]

That's A cop out with Jon snow, and u know. It would go on of two ways in my opinion 1 __Jon says f-it and stays in nights watch causes his uncle/Dad is there then gets abandoned when Stannis pardons Ned. 2 Jon gets pissed, I would be be essentially got shafted his whole life and Ned let it happen especially with the nights watch if he his mom knew he probably wouldn't have felt he had to go. Imo he'd run of and find his targaryen kin especially after news of dragon births and a targaryen maester Ti talk to who would probably tell him to find and help Dani

[@Toastytoez13]

Honestly Riley Baratheon had the best plan to eliminate them the night before before

[@ifeeldead463]

Here's a fun what if: what if the dragons didnt die out after the dance? Mostly cuz I wanna know what kind of or which dragons the rest of the Targaryens would pick as their dragon haha (also imagine the Blackfyre Rebellion but with dragons)

[@ThatDragonGuy]

I think he only covers stuff shown in the show

[@bradwolf07]

Ned could also have lived if the "love dumb" Sansa didn't blab to Cersie when Ned was getting his kids out of King's Landing. I won't let that go

[@sheharnaeem6198]

She was 11 man

[@bradwolf07]

@@sheharnaeem6198 and she helped kill her father. Her age at the time doesn't change that outcome. What is your excuse for Catelyn?

[@lilyclay7489]

Men always hate Sansa stark lmao. Do her parents not have some culpability for trying to marry her off at 11 to a literal sociopath? She’d been taught her whole life her job was to be a good wife, she was a literal child just doing what she thought was best

[@lilyclay7489]

Also she wasn’t “love dumb” it wasn’t love she was ELEVEN. No 11 year old is capable of the adult feeling needed to be “in love”

[@bradwolf07]

@@lilyclay7489 "All women refuse to hold other women accountable for their actions"...What does that statement and your statement about all men have in common? Both are wrong and both are gross exaggerations. Read my comments over again. I never said Sansa was solely responsible, just that SHE DID HAVE SOME CULPABILITY. And in my second comment, I even mentioned Catelyn (granted I was asking what the other persons' excuse for Catelyn's culpability was). You were too quick to try and throw all men under the bus to get that. I used "Love Dumb" instead of crush or puppy love. I NEVER said "true LOVE". Again, you were too quick to get your Gotcha moment to consider what I was saying. We all know she wasn't capable (yet) of actually loving anyone romantically. Her puppy love made her STUPID (as it does to most everyone when they've had their first crush). What she did, those actions DID contribute to her father's death. Her age doesn't change that fact. Yes she was a literal (or should I say literary) child; that doesn't change her culpability. Maybe calm down before responding, Lily. If you can do that, maybe you can see I'm not holding her solely responsible, just pointing out she does INDEED have some responsibility in regards to her father's death.

[@Muddragon104]

This for me personally is a bit of a Stretch. As there are many things that would factor in thus changing the time line. For one thing what if Ned knew little finger would in fact betray him?

[@frankrobinsjr.1719]

I wish people would stop talking about Ned as if he was the most honorable person in the world. If Ned were so honorable, he would have spoken with his wife about Jon's mother. With this, Jon would have been treated better by Catelyn. Being treated as part of the family, Jon would have had no reason to go to the wall. If Ned were honorable, he would have explained what happened there before Jon left. If Ned were honorable, he would have told his friend, Robert, that Cersei wasn't the mother of any of his children immediately. Either in person or by trusted messenger and enough soldiers to ensure the letter went through.

[@jamesmullen3068]

Yoren, taking a part in the affairs of the realm

[@movieloverfan18]

Robb was rushing south to try to save his father. And then Ned is killed . Robb becomes lord and then when his men proclaimed him, he is a king. Walder especially wanted his daughter married to a king which is why he saw Edmure Tully, a lord, marrying her as less than. In this scenario, Robb doesn't need to rush to save Ned as he is released to the Night's watch, so maybe instead of Walder's Bridge Robb goes south a little and crosses at the Ford and makes no deal with Walder at all.

[@JevansUK]

Following the king's road takes him straight to Tywin, the whole point of going through the twins was that Robb was heading to Riverrun.

[@sapphicgeek24]

If he took the black, he'd be the next Lord Commander. If he was exiled or smuggled to Essos, he'd end up with Daenerys. Selmy-like situation. If smuggled to the North, I doubt he'd have pursued a war of independence. Maybe have reluctantly aligned with Stannis.

[@onesith4528]

If he'd taken Renlys offer and taken Joffrey and Cersei hostage, that's the only way I see him living. He would also have to get rid of LittleFinger as well because I believe he would still try to betray him

[@dravin815]

If Ned went to the wall he would get there while Jon was north of the wall and Mormont and his party would still be there. This means Mormont would die and the wildling invasion would still be happening. Ned would be named lord commander and may conflict with Jon for Jon breaking his oath by sleeping with a wildling. They may also disagree on what to do with the Wildings after as Ned is a northerner and always viewed the Wildings as enemies. However, because he trusts and loves Jon, he may take a similar path and agree to help the Wildings. He is also more than likely to accept the existence of White Walkers. Ned could make the same pack and also cause Robb to be alive and the head of Winterfell, to rally the North to prepare for their invasion. Stannis can come north as he did in the book and Robb backed his claim because he listened to his father and would join with the northern armies in fighting the white walkers. It also depends on that if Robb did join with Stannis, the combined might may have been enough to take Kings Landing and beat the Greyjoy's and the Lannister's. Meaning except for a few houses in rebellion, a mostly united Westros may be ready for the White Walkers. The only outliner is Dany, but Ned once again may be able to gain sympathies after she learned he argued against her assassination. This may open a window for him or someone else like Jon to explain the threat of the white walkers. Cause she believed him and Stannis is open t hearing about the White walkers. They would not need to get an undead member of the White Walker's army to show Cersi and would not lose a dragon. The only outlier is the red woman, who may rub the religious order of Westeros the wrong way and cause division. But she may tamper it down if she learns of the Long Night coming and the need for unity.

[@khalidalmofawaz9046]

The big difference is if ned actually was in the nights watch and he sent the message of the night king things would be different

[@organic723]

UGH. A Ned recap video for the 10,000th time?

[@woody230uk]

Jon Snow isn't a Bastard since Rhaegar and Lyanna married in secret so would be the true heir to the iron throne according to the TV series

[@jamiebaker8017]

Wouldn’t ned being stripped of land and title attainder his whole family and remove them all from winterfell??

[@washingtoncommandcenter5541]

Here's how I see it playing out in this scenario. Letting Ned Live and sending him to the Wall(aka North) would mark a Quick decisive defeat of the Lannisters and make this an entirely different story. Sending him North removes him as a hostage, I don't think Ned's honor extends to a coerced false confession unless there's some kind of deal where Sansa's life is in danger until the honorable Ned Stark actually takes the Black and they have confirmation. Either way, if he's alive and breathing, its game over. Robb's WHOLE thing was "What would my father do", So, of course, with Ned alive to tell him, he would listen. This means there is no northern independence and Tywin's worst nightmare comes to pass because Ned was FIRMLY team Stannis as the Rightful Heir and he would be alive to tell Robb as much. Uniting the Young Wolf who has Jamie and was already kicking Tywin's ass at every turn with the man Tywin feared the most in Stannis, the best battle commander in Westeros. Stannis, hearing about this and owing Ned for being the one who tipped him off and tried to protect his crown would head north to promptly relieve Ned of the Night's Watch Vow, after he's had a chance to tell Jon who he really is. At which point Jon will stay anyway since he chose to take the vow, and to get to know his great uncle/cousin Maester Aemon. While Stannis takes Command of the Loyal Northern/Riverland army, Ned will leave the wall, to treat with Renly instead of Cat, and on Stannis's behalf instead of Robb's. Renly looks up to Ned a bit and was willing to support him at Kings Landing. The fact that this is just Stannis VS Joffrey and not 5 Kings, with Stannis naming Renly his heir should make this an easy task for Ned. Renly joins his brother and avoids getting Shadow babied. Renly being named heir is enough for the Tyrells to go the same way with a Renly/Margery marriage uniting The North/Riverlands, the Royal fleet(2nd largest) already in Stannis's control, the Stormlands, under Renly's command and the biggest army and Navy in Westeros, in the Reach/Redwyne Fleet. This would stop any Iron Island involvement, and force Tywin to throw Cersei/Jaime under the bus as the best chance for House Lannister to survive. Surrendering before there's a Battle of the Black Water. Luckily for the "Lannisters" as a house Robert is dead, so they likely won't be executed, mostly thanks to Ned, and Tywin having plausible deniability/willful obliviousness for what his kids did (and the fact that they didn't kill Ned), but Cersei and her children would be disinherited, Jaime will be sent to the wall(for breaking his vows Ala Lucamore the Lusty, but thankfully for Jaime, Stannis/Davos/Ned don't seem like the type to have him gelded) along with his son Joffrey Hill. The true punishment to Tywin is being left with Tyrion as his soul heir. Since " All Dwarves are bastards" Tywin might actually petition, for Tommen(he knew Joffrey was spoiled before he was sentenced to the wall) to be legitimized as a Lannister to have a spare heir,(which will probably be granted since Tommen was known to be a sweet and good child by the people at court, under the condition that he's fostered for a time, at Winterfell, as penance for what Jaime did to Bran. Setting Tommen up to become part of Bran's Wall crew, Howland knowing what's up sends Jojen and Meara to be fostered too, with the secret plan to eventually take Bran North) With Jaime being captive this whole time, Tywin would have continued treating Tyrion SLIGHTLY better than previously, like he did when he sent him to be the Hand before he got Jaime back, which would repair their relationship enough to keep him from killing Tywin, with his newfound responsibility and now a necessity to Tywin, they may even repair their relationship. Then the kingdom that suffered far less bloodshed from Tywin's surrender, will start hearing the stories of the Dragon Queen and start preparing for her as a united realm under the rule of a great tactician such as Stannis. Building Scorpions and defenses. Tyrion(with the endorsement, of Ned by way of Jon and Sansa) tries to rebuild his family standing by offering up his chain and Wildfire Plan/knowledge, for the defense of the city. But Stannis in his continued mission as Azor Ahai, sends the Wildfire to the wall, along with a royal decree to re-man the wall, starting with Lannister loyalists. Save the Hound, Sansa will put in a word since he protected her(Ned might not die, but he'll be sent to the wall, with an escaping Arya, while Sansa is stuck there as a prisoner until the surrender, which gives time for a lot of the other stuff to happen like Sandor and Tyrion protecting her in their own way) and since House Stark lost a lot of its men at arms when Ned was captured at King's Landing, Sandor will be offered and accept a position to continue to protect her. His Brother won't get that or an option to take the black, he's getting put down for war crimes. Varys will try to keep his position but hate Melisandre from the start for being a sorceress who speaks to the flames and figure out she's about to sniff him out just in time to escape to Illyiro, then on to become Griff's Master of Whispers. With no strife or carnage being exacted on the small folk the Brotherhood without banners will hear about King Stannis's decree to re-man the wall for a battle with the Others and all go take the Black.

[@toftof5929]

i swear in the books after yoren's threats the lannisters dont come back and only gets attacked again at that one town in the riverlands

[@LordBloodraven]

If Ned was with Yoren and Arya on the way back to the North, Ned would have been smarter when dealing with the Goldcloaks. While Yoren simply disarmed the men, Ned would order Goldcloaks and their horses seized as well. Yoren could then have the cleaner looking Wandering Crows accompanying him don the armor of the Goldcloaks, having them diffuse any encounter with Lannisters on the road by declaring they were ordered by King Joffrey to escort Ned Stark to the Wall.

[@cdcdrr]

Also, we need to mention, the Starks win. If Robb pledges himself to Stannis as is suggested, he would be required to direct his army towards the Battle of the Blackwater, or keep Tywin's army pinned so he cannot relieve King's Landing. Stannis takes the city, Cersei, Tyrion and Jofrey die. Sansa is returned to her family. The Tyrels will see that siding with the Lannisters against the two most skilled battle commanders in Westeros is suicide, and abandon them. Tywin's only hope of saving his precious family legacy now rests on ransoming Jaime, and Stannis will likely demand he take the black and abdicate the Westerlands to his only living son. But even a more rigid Stannis who has decided Jaime and Tywin both need to pay the ultimate price will be the victor in this scenario.

[@THEAdmiralXizor]

There is no way any of this would have happened. - Ned would be be at the Wall with Jon, and told him his parentage. - Robb would be Lord of Winterfell, and getting Ravens from Jon and Ned. He would still have been King in the North (until Stannia showed up) and pardoned one or both of them. - Dany, had she not been murdered by Tywin, would have arrived in Westeros with an intact Winterfell, a nephew who knew his parentage, and (this is most important): A COMPETENT BATTLE TESTED VETERAN in the North to lead its defense... because let's face it - Jon Snow was terrible at tactics. If Ned takes the black, then the White Walkers would be destroyed on the northern side of the Wall at best, and beaten at Winterfell by a united North at worst...

[@ashleymcgaw9443]

I do like the theory. However him knowing geofry true linage he would never have made it to the north. Ceasei would have sent maybe the hound with the gold cloaks in force to assassinate Ned and nothing would have changed

[@Rhaenarys]

Tbh, Cersei really did fuk up when Joffrey became king. He wasnt old enough to rule on his own in either the books or the show, therefore, required a Regent. This is where Cersei shouldve stepped in like she tried with Tommen. Technically, the power struggle shouldve been between Cersei and Ned, not the Joffrey and Ned. Like...theres literally no reason for the Kings Guard or the Golden Cloaks to have listened fully to Joffreys authority over Cersei. Same with Payne. And it technically shouldve been Cersei giving that speech, not Joffrey. Like...hes there to learn. Not rule. The ONLY exception to this is if he managed to prove his ability to not need a regent, which...beheading Ned would prove the opposite. When Tywin steps in takes control, that is exactly what Cersei shouldve done, sent him bed when he had a tantrum.

[@Rhaenarys]

Oh, and technically Ned wouldve easily been able to use Cersei being a woman against her to take that regency himself, but...her taking it does make more sense as she has the money, Ned doesnt.

[@SpongeWatches]

What if Catlyn Stayed in Winterfell!!

[@Jinxness]

Why would the Starks be allowed to retain their titles and lands after Ned is banished? Cersai certainly has no love for them and every interest in making it seem like anything Ned does say about her children is viewed as a vengeful lie on top of still being salty that Robert said Lyanna's name on their wedding night. Littlefinger wants Caitlyn and with her family in disgrace and several children to care for alone without resources she'll be an easy mark. They don't have a political interest in a Stark union. That was all Robert wanting to bribe Ned into becoming his hand. Without the engagement they can use marriage to the new King as a very powerful political tool perhaps to Arianne Martell in a situation that would end in chaos.

[@ifeeldead463]

Cuz they have to marry Joffery to Sansa so they can unite the North and the crown and well, cant exactly unite them when Sansa has no titles or lands. She'll be no better than a regular girl.

[@ghostinyourattic3545]

If you've read fire and blood they usually let the houses retain their lands and titles to keep their vassals in the region from falling into a rebel state against the newly apointed lord.

[@itstaylor2137]

I think if Jon was still killed and then resurrected which could happen if he becomes lord commander, maybe ned back s him, or even if ned get s it maybe Jon is killed as retaliation? I think Ned might put John up as King of the Seven Kingdoms and rally the north behind him, Ned in the end would be lord commander of the nights watch but could be pardoned for a ny crimes if Jon wins.

[@wallybonejengles5595]

It is a a bitter irony that Ned would have used all his power to protect the Lannister children had their coup failed. They would have no lands. No titles. Casterly Rock would pass to Tyrion or Kevans line. But they would keep their lives. They would see children of their own one day. The world would spit on them but Ned would give them justice anyway. Bitter irony.

[@GalayethZen]

Why would the Lannisters use up Tomin on Arya? They dont need a second arrangement with one house. They would want to sure up another house like the Tyrells.

[@marimayes]

What if Tywin Lived?

[@brendanmuller7301]

Jaime would likely end up as his heir as he'd find some other way to clear tyrion's name or allow him to escape and tywins deal was his life for Jaime as heir

[@Zedvais]

Also for being one of the greatest stark to ever live ned wasn’t even supposed to be a lord paramount.

[@CowboyMikeShow]

If Renly still rebels and Ned sends Gendry from the wall to Robbs court before he takes any oaths i could see Stannis legitimizing Gendry under the agreement he gives up his claim to the iron throne in return for becoming Lord of Storms End

[@Maarustar]

Am I really going to watch this while being at a kids party????

[@Maarustar]

Yes indeed

[@greenknightofwar7024]

I’m I gonna watch this whole video while at work?

[@fearthepiggaming2998]

Best place

[@itsmainelyyou5541]

But of course, while you simultaneously observe the beginning of the next batch of cutthroats and diplomats in the making. Since I'm late, I wonder what you saw? Probably an interesting afternoon with that lens.

[@christophercharles1937]

Technically Ned can stay at the Night Watch until he’s cleared to return home. As long as he doesn’t do the oath, he’s good

[@s1os2s3]

There are a few things that caused Ned's death. 1. Sansa. 2. Catelyn. 3. Himself. Sansa betrayed Ned several times. You can make the excuse she is a dumb kid but that is an explanation not an excuse. She caused her father's death when she told on him. Catelyn said consequence be damned, I am not going to be the one facing them anyway. Finally, Ned being bad at politics and at reading people that are not his subject. Also, if Robert Baratheon wouldnt be a fool, not just a drunkard, he would put 2 and 2 together that Joffrey is not his son. None of the blonde ones are. GRRM never touched the subject afaik so one could only assume that he either realised and thats why she drank and fucked whores all the time but that is just that.

[@emeraldeyedstruggler3362]

I have never seen a queen/king try to take back their throne peacefully

[@dangitsmrfang3895]

What if Ned Stark told Catlyn about Jon from the beginning? Catlyn would have seen Jon differently and treated him different.

[@martinspacil5100]

What if Ned tell Catelyn truth about Jon and Jon became proclaim king of seven kingdoms with North support

[@cullenfarran3750]

Rob only married jayne because in his grief at learning theon had killed bran and rickon he and jayne comforted eachother. But this might have been jaynes mothers plan.

[@hautaveii9152]

You guys need to do a "What if King Stark never crossed the neck during the conquest of Aegon." That was just so dumb. They should have stayed in North. Aegon would have had to conquer the entire North with only dragons. Wouldn't work. No army would have been able to cross the neck into the north.

[@TheFCHD]

A what if I’d love to see you try out would be what if Robert didn’t want the throne after winning the rebellion, showing ambition only to marry Lyanna, even after finding out about her death just didn’t care about the throne, forcing Westeros into an age of 8 kingdoms once again.

[@TinaMae_AyeTheOriginal]

Yes, I've wondered the same ... Robert wins but puts Ned on the throne instead after learning of Lyanna's death. Please consider this what if scenario for a future post 👏🏾

[@notapplicable1296]

Afterthought Benjin would probably tell him to go also he tried to get Jon not to join anyway

[@itaipee]

Nice steak I would also mention that once the Lenistets learn that Jamie's captured they will not send just two goal clocks to catch Gentry they will send the hundreds to catch Ned

[@josephcharles3460]

They already have jaime lannister

[@Bill_Door123]

I personally think that Jaqen was hired by Littlefinger or perhaps Cirsei to kill Ned on the way to the Wall

[@yusuke502]

A better way would had been Ned told Robert about his false children earlier

[@rezaganjizadeh4263]

Sean Bean? Alive in a series? It's treason, then.

[@joeyfish5]

will order on soon! - from Philadelphia pa

[@NivAvenger4905]

What if Aemon and Baelon outlived Jaehaerys? What if the tragedy of summerhall doesn't happened?

[@mistplayzop]

Ned was destined to be dead though. It is theorized that Littlefinger had paid the faceless men to have him bumped off on the way to Castle Black. It's why Jaqen H'Gha was in that cage headed to the wall from the Black cells. He purposefully got his way in prisoned there knowing that Ned would be set up and sent to the wall in the first place. Joffrey doing what he did was a complete wildcard but it definitely could have been Littlefinger putting the idea in his head also, or at least thats what i believe Varys speculated. Littlefinger is a smart character that has back up on backups and is always 10 steps ahead of everyone else. Anyways...this basically meaning Ned was as good as dead regardless because Jaqen would have gotten to him eventually. He was as good as dead unless Ned changed his plans and fled Kings Landing himself to Stannis. Even then it just depends when exactly Littlefinger bought the Faceless Man assassin. He could have bought him after the throne room set up or it definitely could have been sooner.

[@itmal8949]

W vid I wish Ned should send to the wall

[@craykard8325]

if Ned Saw what Arya would become it would break his heart.

[@rubenfigueiredo4229]

make a what if Aegon V didn't die in The Tragedy of summerhall, and had managed to hatch dragon eggs, let's say 3 dragon eggs to make it interesting, how would that change history from that point o,n with no one dying in summerhall and dragons returning to the world?

[@Bee2TheRian]

What if everyone lived in Game of Thrones 😂

[@JohnMinehan-lx9ts]

Send Ned to the Wall, where he leads the war against the Others and is made King.

[@RibandonKharmalki]

What if Rheanrya claimed vermathor because syrax didn't hatch but later...

[@Rhaenarys]

Ok and this is my idea of what would happen, might even be repeated, lol, not that far yet, just thought of this and think it works. So Ned gets sent to the wall, hes on his way north, everything is settled...for now. Littlefinger, however, seizes opportunity. Lannisters are still suspected after all for Brans fall and assassination attempt. Little Finger hires an assassin, an archer, who takes out Ned on route. All hell breaks loose as the agreement is broken, as Lannisters are blamed...by Little Finger, in a secret letter to Cat. Joffrey vehemently denies it, as well as Cersei, because, well...they are innocent. Sansa believes them, because well, theyve shown kindness so far, even Joffrey, for show. She may not have the best life, but it isnt the worst. So...war breaks out, only this time, Sansa is on the Lannisters side believing they werent involved. Arya being missing still, however, doesnt help the Lannisters look.

[@jordanlane870]

What if daemon and caraxes lived what if young griff or aegon hatched a Dragon

[@Caesar_1415]

Very interesting...

[@RibandonKharmalki]

What if denerys became a vampire....

[@aishahamma334]

Then everyone will live happily ever after . Jon can have his father whit him always his wife and children can come visit him in castle black. His death started alot of things arya running away robb starting the war or his imprisonment.

[@dyscalculic]

I'd love to see one of your What Ifs on Westerosi rumors or false stories were actually true, for instance, what if Jon Snow is legit Ned Stark's bastard?

[@genreghost4098]

What if Lyanna lived?

[@greenwave819]

LMAO I was like 420!!!

[@misaghkhosravi4541]

He n house stark should play with theyre barbies now , posed

[@nathanielstacy4488]

With most of the starks in the north Ned could Out Joffwry & install the True King Ageon aka John.