What if the Ottoman Empire Never Fell? (Alternative History)

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The Ottoman Empire is a curious example of an empire, that kind of forced history’s hand when it came to its own dissolution. By 1914 the Ottoman Empire had fallen greatly from its old territorial and prestigious heights, but it had kind of reached a tenable point. After losing the majority of its territory in Europe the ottomans only truly had to manage its turkic homelands, and its arab territories. Truly, this could have been where their fall stopped. Had they regrouped and reformed from this position the Ottoman Empire could have remained a player on the world stage into the 20th century. But instead, the Ottomans gambled it all, and lost.
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[@ThatAnnoyingAmerican]

Want to suggest a scenario? Join the discord today! discord.gg/aN7aUZ3SW

[@Ali-bu6lo]

Some notes: 1) I find it impossible that the Ottomans won't conquer all of Arabia minus the British protectorates after WW I. In reality we saw the Saudis do it, why Ottomans with so much more resources wouldn't take over these sparsely populated lands? The Saudis were a problem for the Ottomans and I can see them using the Europeans being distracted to take over the land, if not, the discovery of oil would surely prompt them to invade. Even if they don't, I doubt the much weaker Saudis can take over and hold the Shia majority and oil rich coast, maybe Britain would create a new emirate there as a protectorate? 2) I think the Ottomans would absolutely capitalize on the Russian civil war and take over as much of the Caucasus as possible and given the very mountainous terrain and the fact that the locals would absolutely prefer them over the Soviets, they have a shot at keeping those lands like how Poland kept most of they gained from their victory over the Soviets. They may even resettle Circassia with their Circassian diaspora.

[@impostor6982]

1) the ottomans never were able to really invade Arabia past the western coast the desert is a massive natural defense as for the oil I cant see the British not immediately seizing them one way or another probably as you said in some emirate and yeah without the boon that was the hijaz and aassir regions both of which would still be ottoman here they would never have the ressources and manpower to overwhelm the shiite ehsa' region in the east that has all the oil my guess is the ottomans do take over small bits of it the saudis maybe some scraps the rest goes to the UK or wjhatever puppet state or protectorate it sets up there 2) i don't doubt either that they would try but i dk about them prefering ottomans over the soviets even without the genocide the ethnic tensions and historical animocity with armenians and georgians the hatred ran deep, maaaaayybe the azerbaijanis who are culturally turkic but with the sunni aspect being more prevalent their vs shiite azerbaijan maybe not however compared to soviets this one's a possibility. the things with the scenario i find unrealistic are 1) ww1 going the same way cuz the ottomans were barely useful without the ottomans i can't see that war lasting longer than 1916 or early 1917 2) their not being some sort of Arab revolt regardless given the situation at the time if otttomans kept trying to Turkify the Arabs and the idea they can so easily invade Arabia in ww2 seems a bit much i feel like arabs are very underestimated basically

[@inspectahpoo5571]

I agree with #1, however I'm not too sure about #2. Even if the Ottomans had seized the Caucuses in 1918, their military wouldn't have been able to modernize long enough to hold back the Red Army. I could probably see the Turks sweeping through the region, just for the Reds to come back in. Parts of Georgia, Armenia, would definitely be seized and be maintained under Ottoman control, even if a Russian reconquest were to happen, but I don't feel the Turks would be able to hold all of Circassia etc.

[@Ali-bu6lo]

@@inspectahpoo5571 From what I know the armies of the Russian civil war were more like armed mobs. If Poland, a nation that had that at that point had only existed for like four years can defeat them I think a large nation that has been neutral all this time and thus not war weary can take them on.

[@inspectahpoo5571]

@@Ali-bu6lo That's fair, it's definitely a circumstancial thing. If the Ottomans were to have been able to modernize properly in time they should be to crush any counterattack from the Soviets, but if the Soviets can organize and use their numbers against the Ottomans it could lead to a stalemate or a compromise? I don't see the Ottomans ever being outright defeated in this type of war but rather just pushed back, which could lead them into a crave for revenge which would be why they'd help Germany? Who knows lol.

[@pakilla4578]

Ottoman Empire's survival hinged on one crucial period: the reign of Sultan Abdul Hamid II. If certain actions were taken, he would've ensured that the empire survived till this date. Firstly, the Young Turks. This hyper-nationalist independence movement were covertly supported by the British when the Ottoman Empire was under the threat of wars from all fronts. After they overthrew Abdul Hamid, they perpetrated all kinds of atrocities. Suppression of religion, language, culture. Armenian genocide. Abdul Hamid didn't want to harm the students who protested his rule, as he needed educated, skilled professionals to carry the Ottoman State into the modern world, but The Young Turks needed to be nipped in the bud. Not by violent means, but through diplomacy or espionage/sabotage, or both. Secondly, Ottoman Public Debts. Originally established to keep track of the debts that the Ottomans owed to foreign countries, the organization eventually became a leech forced its way into controlling Ottoman economy. The British used debt to colonize other countries, but with the Ottomans the most they could do was to them to keep them in debt. Something needed to be done to get rid of that. Thirdly, Abdul Hamid could've convinced the German Empire to stay out of WWI. The Ottoman Empire was still recovering from their debt problem, and war would cost them heavily. Germans being involved would eventually mean Ottomans would do the same. Ottomans and Germans, however, could've covertly provided indirect support such as weapons. Germans and Ottomans could've survived the fall of Central Powers. Finally, the Arab Revolt. Besides vigorously eliminating colonial influences, the Sultan also had to make sure that more Hijazi Arabs were represented in the Ottoman government. After all, they were the physical hosts of Islam's holiest sites. This could pave the way for more diversity reforms, ultimately resulting in the whole peninsula being absorbed into the Empire. The survival of German Empire meant NO Nazi Germany. No holocaust. No WWII. Britain would move to decolonize earlier since their Muslim colonies would continue be supported and incited by the more assertive Caliph. Egypt may or may not be absorbed into the Empire. With major colonial powers such as GB and France disintegrated, and with Russia facing a communist uprising, Germans and Ottomans would emerge as the main global superpowers after the US. Of course the colonial powers would keep pestering Ottomans for crude oil, but the Middle East would at least remain stable without the threat of any invasion or terrorism. Russia wouldn't dare invade Afghanistan with Ottomans backing them. No Al Qaeda or Taliban.

[@MrTrickFM]

I approve this video! Great scenarios and brilliant thinking!

[@lerneanlion]

Just as always, I am right about the world where the Ottoman Empire still existed into today's age will definitely be a better world for all of us to live in. This is most likely my favorite video from your channel! So thank you! Also, I have this idea for you to think: What if the Treaty of Hudaybiyyah actually lasted 10 years like it intended?

[@aarohalme1020]

Not with a nazi victory if that occurs. Arab unrest would also plague the empire to some degree, though can be potentially mitigated through autonomy (which likely also won't happen in an axis victory). Better is plausible, though far from certain.

[@prisondaddy5037]

@@aarohalme1020truth but the Cold War scenario world sounds really pleasant

[@aarohalme1020]

@@prisondaddy5037 Interesting, maybe. Wouldn't really say pleasant though.

[@prisondaddy5037]

@@aarohalme1020 why not? Think about it, no Israeli settlement, a more developed Middle East, a more progressive Middle East, no 9/11, no radical Islamism, no migrant crisis, fast end to authoritarian communism, no Armenian genocide, no wars in the Middle East, higher iq in the Middle East and far less exploited countries as the ottomans would be a protector of colonised Muslim countries. This is an absolute plus for everything west of Central Asia, can’t say much about the rest of the world though

[@sameerakhan4671]

In the hudaybiyyah case, I think God would extend Muhammad's PBUH lifetime and after 10 years Mecca would fall anyway.

[@TheAnimatedmosquito]

Great vid man

[@maddogbasil]

Oooooh I knew it Lezzz goooo 💪💪 You made the vid Edit: Bro this was an amazing vid I quite like the 2 scenarios at the end there and me personally i believe the second senario being more feasible since the ottomans should've seen the damage of ww1 and been careful in getting involved in europea wars Regardlesw i felt like this could definitely have been added on to Since of course the ottomans were seen as the protectors of islam and of course race not being seen in the same context in islam as its seen in Christianity I could definitely see the ottomans tryinf to define themselves as the protectors and guardians of the muslim world Especially after decades of slow and steady modernization and oil money massively boostin their economy and prestige The ottomans will eventually lose the turkish background of their nation identity and replacing it for the islamic identity just as america replaced the ethnic european identity for the racial skin colour based identity Muslims would theirfore be seen as the majoriy religion (of course with small Christian and jewish minorities) The ottomans could then go on to form an organization that would mirror NATO and the EU but would be a fusion of both. It would inlude most muslim states who survived colonialism And many of these countries would jump at the chance to ally and trade with a muslim state that could better protect them in a world ruled by powerful Non Muslim states We would see a sort of Global Islamic Union Treaty (G.I.SU.T) It would start slowly as states wouldnt take all the risky moves and it would mostly incorporate free trade between local middle east countriee Then it will move further across north africa, and many sub-saharan africa As the ottomans deal with Decolonization with soft power of trade while also funding the liberation of many lands still under foriegn regimes In this world the ottomans are probably one of America's Biggest allies somewhere close to what israel has today As the ottomans would of course be right next door to the soviets We would definitely see the ottomans testing and achieving nuclear capability along with strong american alliance against godless communism and the Petro-dollar giving the ottomans limitless funds to continue their plans with the Islamic union teaty increasing the width of the group with south asian and south east asian member states After the fall of the soviet union i see the ottomans instantly jumping at the chance to establish themselves in central asia Massive reforms would take place to disintegrate soviet and communist ideology in the region and over the decades russian seperatist movements will of course pop up in northern khazakestan as we saw in Ukraine With cental asia slowly being incorporated by ottoman influence, the rising China and its economic might along with seperatist tensions in Xinjiang would easily make it hostile to the ottoman state Once again making the ottomans the Perfect American Ally in the region Advantages in this timeline -no 9/11 -no warr on terror -no Afghanistan -no money wasted on meaningless wars -no somali pirates -no iranian hostage crisis -no immigration crisis -no oil wars -no Palestinian occupation -no libyan civil war -no iraq invasion Disadvantages -war with russia (probably might happen more often) In this timeline america would of course be alot more financially secure than it was in our timeline It would be semi-Isolationist as it would still have great sway over south america With policies and poltical groups arguing more about isolationism and liberalism alot more than whatever politics is mostly about today in our timeline Asia would look very different, as we would of course see small mild levels of migration from colonial countries tontheir respective colonizer nations in western europe as workers to boost education and experience abroad This would be during the early stages of Islamic Union Expanion so many newly established nation states would still deal sith the usual seperatist movements, ethnic tensions, poverty and communist guerillas India in this timeline would be a full blown stalinist regime completely falling to communism As the country was already heavily anti-western during post colonialism due to the messy partiition But in this timeline with pakistan being part of the ottoman lead islamic union and pakistan being a strong memeber and ally of both the ottomans and americans india wouldve already been heavily reliant on russia as it was already quite socialist With the ottomans heavily backing pakistan in the indo-pak wars in the 1970s A Pakistani victory and land acquisition wouldve seen rebel sentiment then later a brutal communist regime taking control Communist india would be insanely different to a communist china and russia , the killing and mass murder would of course be the same albiet alot higher in number in some areas but this would infinitely cripple the indian economy after the fall of communism The biggest change of course would be the total and utter disintegration of the caste system and destruction of the hindu religious system itself from india for good (Anybody whk gas studied Indian history and the hindu religion should understand that the caste system in all its heinous ways and attributes is stuck so unbelievably deep within indian religions and culture that it would be next to impossible to bring an end to its existence....neither islamic invasions, european colonization or religious reforms have even managed to break this evil system but in this timeline during the indian civl war and later rise of communism in india we would see a truly brutal attempt and bringing an end to the caste system being one of the biggest calling cards to the communists during the civil war) The takeover would lead to statewide secularization and the destruction of many hindu temples and arresting of upper caste members in society Many minorities would join the communistsbfor protection during the civil war as Radical hindu patrols would incinerate Non hindu villages However those minorities who did not join hands with the communist regime would under state sponsored purges The indian state would would go through an economic and demographic upheaval as outside powers would be heavily invested in this disaster Caste senitment would be seen as anti indian theirfore would be purged from all records We would see something similar to the cultural revolution in china as old records containing any sort of hindu art, books or information containing anything to do with the caste would be destroyed The communist regime would create its own form of ethnic boundaries in the new indian state and all men and women would be seen as equal under the regime It would be the biggest civil war recorded live in Television history Unlike russia which simply released the nations it had previously colonized India would literally lose multiple states and essentially balkanize after the fall of communism Although it would the longest lasting stalinist regime along with north korea (I have so many new ideas for this and hope you fan do a part 2 for this video)

[@beanos8024]

Maybe next time you could do What If France didn't fall in WWII? This would be more so a Cold War scenario, but I think it would be very impactful globally

[@redsun5929]

Europe eventually stagnates, american dominance comes in later. They keep algeria as mainland territory etc

[@PaoloCavestro-ey9bb]

What if Ottomans had adopted the cult of Makima, Revy, Cutie Honey, Marin Kitagawa, Trixie Tang, Judy Neutron, Marge Simpson, Wendy Corduroy, Lois Griffin, Sailor Moon and Maddie Fenton instead of Abrahamic shit?

[@Kiddo5010]

As soon as i saw Turkey In The Poll I Knew 👌

[@miguelia5002]

Can you do What If Napoleon lose in the 1st Napoleonic War(?

[@Thomas_Wedderburn]

Please do one about what if the British empire became a federation in the late 1800s

[@user-dg5zm6fs8g]

If the ottoman empire never joined WW1, they would lose their only ally in europe, and the question of russians taking constantinople would be a matter of time

[@m.aryaanamiri2755]

yes but russia itself fell.And the the soviets had bigger fish to fry.

[@nateghast6456]

@@m.aryaanamiri2755I think that he meant the original comment to be the view of the Ottomans themselves.

[@dkkwikekikekke88777]

I feel like the Sanrio where the Ottoman Empire joins the axis was a bit unrealistic.Britain wasn’t going to surrender if they still had naval supremacy using us support. I don’t think a medium size nation about the strength of Italy would be able to allure the corse of operations Barbarossa witch i feel like people always overestimate the Germans in alternative history. Also the Germans would likely give there ally Italy control over eygipt but if they did perform this whell they might have given it to the Ottoman Empire. Despite this it’s probably more interesting than it changing basically nothing in the Second World War like most Sanrio’s about Spain do.

[@SP_10_]

A What if on "Napoleon Pasha" Plzzz....

[@josephleebob3828]

first ottoman empire extended ww1 by a few years second armenian genocide was because of armenians rebelling

[@Mr_OogaBooga]

He's back and he's ready to attack

[@mikeoxlong3672]

What if the Ming dynasty for some reason colonized North America alongside probably South East Asia

[@jimryan5513]

I'm not entirely convinced that there would still be Great Depression had the Ottomans stayed neutral. Part of Britain's vulnerability in the late 20s-early 30s came from their war debts, which without adventures in the Middle East (no Gallipoli, no Palestinian Campaign* or Arab Revolt) would be greatly reduced, which meant less pressures overall on the global economy, mitigating some of the anxiousness when credit crunches started to manifest. *Side note: The failure of this front to come into play would mean 1962 wouldn't get the film LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, which means Peter O'Toole would have to find another way to make himself a household name without this breakout role...

[@Amen-Magi]

If ottoman join germany in ww2 they lost even wores they dont have modern army they just lost even today turky never made

[@benjaminobienu5297]

This fantastic, Mr. That Annoying American 1. I love the options that would benefit the Ottomans with the CCUP in power and become a liberal and democratic party. In the 21st century in the modern era, the Ottomans would try to gain some influence in the Middle East and some sort of Ottoman Commonwealth similar to the Commonwealth of Nations under the leadership of the United Kingdom. In exchange, they became part of the Ottoman Commonwealth and could have autonomy and gain the most rights to play loyalty to the Ottomans. The first option is the better option for the Ottoman Empire. Still, they could use the opportunity to invade the Casucas during the Russian Civil War and go on helping out the Italians to invade Greece. Shared some of the occupied territories in Greece with the Italians to compromise their deal. With the Ottoman Empire being around in the modern century, I could imagine there might be no Islamic nationalist and extremist uprisings and no change in the 1979 revolution with the overthrow of the thousand Persian monarchy. Anyways this is a great video, my friend. Please keep up the awesome and always remember you deserve respect and recognition. Remember that, and I wish you good luck and good fortune for you and your channel!

[@shzarmai]

An "Ottoman commonwealth" over the Middle East and North Africa would ideally be a Supranational Union of political, technological, religious & economic cooperation/defense.

[@shzarmai]

Also a Monarchist Iran would probably be an Industrialised juggernaut nation with a borderline high-income economy at least in the 21st century. And it would be a significant regional power (militarily and politically), if not a Great Power in its own right and this Shah-ruled Monarchist Iran would be a strong US ally too I think.

[@evangamer5752]

What if the holy Roman empire was retored in 1860s

[@sahilhossain8204]

Lore of What if the Ottoman Empire Never Fell? (Alternative History) momentum 100

[@thebestunlikeyou1174]

i dont like how you said that the ottoman war effort was pathetic kut 1916 was very successful

[@wankawanka3053]

The number of the battles lost by them is far bigger than their victories

[@thebestunlikeyou1174]

@@wankawanka3053 the central powers was helped greatly of the ottomans like 100,000 Indians were sent to the ottoman front the Caucasus front the same the central powers would have lost a lot sooner if any central power isnt there they lose much sooner

[@yaasinm]

lol so much wrong information that it’s mind blowing

[@umerrkhan2694]

It was all plan, U just recited the history in reverse,