What if the Pope United Italy?

The Pope. You know him, you love him. Successor to St. Peter, head of the Catholic Church, and ruler over Vatican City. But, there was actually a time not too long ago, relatively speaking, in which the Pope, through what was known as the Papal States, controlled the entirety of Central Italy. And, it wasn't until the mid-19th Century when, after numerous different Wars for Unification, Italy would be united under the Kingdom of Sardinia-Piedmont, and the Papal States would be destroyed. But, right before this, there was actually a plan to have Italy unite, not under Piedmont, but under the Pope. So, what if, in an alternate timeline, the Pope had united Italy?
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Video Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
0:46 Background
8:03 Scenario

[@dominicadrean2160]

Here's a fun scenario what if the great Greek plan (Catherine the Great of Russia's planet to restore the Byzantine Empire )succeeded

[@Macedonio_le_provocateur_]

Amazing idea

[@monsieurcharcutier4490]

Are you asking this in Monsieur Z's comments too or is it someone else because I've seen that suggestion there too

[@Aq_3]

same questions@@monsieurcharcutier4490

[@SouthDakotaFacts]

@@monsieurcharcutier4490he’s commented the same thing multiple times. And he still hasn’t gotten the facts straight, because Catherine only wanted a Greek Empire

[@soudino2723]

Damn they wanted to restore a planet and call it byzantium

[@kingofhearts3185]

I feel like north Germany being in a weaker position would lead them to remain on better terms with Britain.

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

As a catholic i thank you for this!🙏🙏🙏🙏✝️✝️✝️✝️✝️

[@mikeplayz4601]

Hey fellow Catholic! Puerto Rican here🇵🇷✌️✝️

[@nl396]

As a Catholic hearing about this alternative timeline is so bittersweet. If only the people who pushed for it weren't so liberal.

[@unternachts2358]

fr

[@simondeep]

The 1880s were a wild time. Like every major power was fracturing. Rurouni kenshin cracked open Japan’s border. El Papa became an islander in Rome. The US was armwrestling human rights. Crazy times

[@dominicadrean2160]

What if humans had longer life spans

[@neptun6761]

Did you just watch Frieren? 😂

[@monsieurcharcutier4490]

It would get too crowded

[@Salt_and_Peroxide]

would never happen trust me

[@jaredvale]

​@@Salt_and_PeroxideWell it already happened IRL. Before the Flood humans had long lifespans some live up to 900+ years

[@randomguy6152]

longer wars

[@dyoloh]

I don’t think the alliances and war would happen as you showed One big reason for Germanys naval build up was its colonies And withe out Germany fully unifying the Berlin conference could play out much differently then in our time or maybe even never happen But that’s more of a small part of the video Overall gut video keep it up

[@lvckytaiko2.0]

I like the sceanrio but the part with the Brits joining the Catholic side doesnt make sense. Firstly, why would Prussia build up it's navy when their army would be priority number one as that is all protecting them. Secondly, The United Kingdom wanted a balance of power so they would most likely be neutral until a war starts. Thirdly, The English and Prussian/North German throne are nor far from each other so an alliance would just simply make sense. Fouthly, Prussia would not need such a navy as they would likely not have many colonies with them now being as powerful.

[@PrussiaAustriaConfederal]

Big Vatican! 🇻🇦🇻🇦🇻🇦🇻🇦🇻🇦🇻🇦

[@PrussiaAustriaConfederal]

The popes version of Austria hubgary

[@quempire2656]

hubgary

[@PrussiaAustriaConfederal]

I missed clicked…@@quempire2656

[@NewfoundMapping]

can u delete the video’s on PH.

[@T_U_U_O]

I'd like to see a scenario where PH decided to make a harsh response to Josh's harsh response and creates an Alternate History civil war

[@lightsinthedarkness]

Which of the two responses would PH be responding to?

[@Duque-Oldemburg]

No, no way, this discussion should not continue, and should remain outside the alternative history community, to keep us united.

[@MrShipBuff]

@@Duque-Oldemburg I don't think it's "united", per se. If you mean united by HRE standards then yeah, that's accurate. **ahem** HRE falling apart type united

[@Salt_and_Peroxide]

Thx this is great

[@AshleyGravesreal]

As an Italian this ideal was so popular in Lombardy/or a confederation..that would have been scary

[@MrSVES]

Really interesting video Josh! Great work as always!

[@SPAnComCat]

I Love this Scenario! Great Job Josh!

[@jakubpedersen]

Great scenario Josh!

[@CasualGamingDad187]

What if the three cousins fought the rest of Europe and Japan in ww1?

[@Idk-rk5gw]

That would be very interesting

[@lunalingo4461]

That's such an easy win for the cousins

[@lunalingo4461]

Literally the 3 most powerful Nations in Europe

[@CasualGamingDad187]

@@lunalingo4461 not to sure. England would have a lot of overseas colonies to defend. Italy France and OE would have free rein over Africa and Japan would attempt to take English Asian and hit Russia in the back. The Russian navy was a joke and maybe in this time the AH would be competent with forming the three crowns kingdom keeping the people from being disloyal

[@soudino2723]

Interesting scenario, but I'd guess it would be a stalemate if the fought all of europe which would be spain, France, Portugal, Austria-Hungary, the balkans, the ottomans, and the benelux countries, also Japan still a rising power but it would be a massive problem for the Russians in the east

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Suggestion josh: What if Baltazar Carlos survives and there is no war of spanish succession?

[@S1AR_DUS1]

Unrealistic you don’t understand Britains perspective on European crisis’. Britain will always support the side least likely to unite Europe. Divide and rule

[@mathieuleader8601]

in this timeline I can see a papal version of the French foriegn legion being formed

[@janjurik660]

There actualy was a sort of papal "foreign legion" irl. They were called The Papal Zouaves

[@NewZealand.283]

Thanks + Here is a new idea for next video : What if England won the hundred years war

[@Wendeta-hq2cp]

Howdy Josh. This was amazing. I wonder how would France fare with Napoleon III still in power in this TL.

[@kristianhp10]

20.000 congrats😁

[@familygash7500]

*VIDEO SUGGESTION:* What if The Revolutions Of 1848 had never happened?

[@isaiahslack2011]

What if Japan joined the Central Powers?

[@Kiddo5010]

Oh yeah then The Qing would be backed by the European powers and would be in a somewhat better position to possibly Industrialize.

[@lavalord8083]

This is a pretty epic video, catholicism is very based!

[@thorpeaaron1110]

Not really

[@lavalord8083]

@@thorpeaaron1110 Pinochet was Catholic

[@Dock284]

"Unrealistic alternate history can be dangerous" *proceeds to make an unrealistic scenario*

[@them.m.sgamer8017]

👆 underrated comment.

[@Machiavellistyczny]

It isn’t that unfealistic if you watch it

[@dylanjones7485]

Fax

[@lavalord8083]

L 4u

[@Azurethewolf168]

Well if you watched the video it wouldn’t be unrealistic

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Howdy josh! Love your content!😊😊😊😊❤❤❤

[@frostnova8300]

Always a pleasure when Josh uploads

[@Czaroslaw]

Truly blessed timeline

[@orirotem2298]

I hoped for this video

[@minibbmac9148]

Can you do what if Austria unified Germany

[@SPAnComCat]

Imagine if the Opinion 1 Scenario became a HOI4 Mod! It Shows how GREAT of a Scenario this is!

[@Lukdnuke_Narson]

Neat

[@mr.gigagod9736]

Here is a fun unrealistic that hadn't really taught me much but I still enjoyed.

[@P1kaSans]

what if the union of kėdainiai actually went through? (making the polish-swedish-lithuanian commonwealth)

[@gamingjr9038]

Blessed

[@kdawg2446]

What if Sparta unified Greece?

[@carlose4314]

With Pius IX having an earlier (and possibly longer) reign, the first Vatican council would likely not be cut short, since in our timeline, it had been cut short due to the revolutions.

[@SPAnComCat]

As a Former Catholic [Now Agnostic Atheist] I Totally Approve that Scenario!

[@santiagobanosflores7069]

Ironic. He could preach to others about being realistic, but fail to implement it himself.

[@geo.m1639]

13:44 Do you think the balkans wars would happen without the Italo- Turkish war though?

[@nova-dc9fe]

now i'm only waiting the "what if the kingdom of the two sicilies reunified italy" i dont think something would change but we need to complete che trilogy right?

[@krak2822]

another note: Because the 2nd italian war of independence never happening, the Interior Minister, defacto leader, of the Austrain Empire Alexander von Bach never resign, thus neo-absolutism in austria would survive and there wouldn't be an austria hungary in this timeline

[@Slavic_Gopnik69]

Video idea: What if NATO didn't intervene in Yugoslav war

[@nicksyoutubechannel2632]

I find this timeline unrealistic britan main goal was preserve the balance of power and joining the Roman’s would put Europe under complete Roman control so I think that britan would either stay neutral or join the Protestant Prussia ether option would lead to a close war because of how weak Italy is in this timeline, how even further Austria is unstable because now they have a rebellious Italian population as well and how the Franco Austrian rivalry isn’t just about Italy they would compete for the south German states as well which would lead to tensions between the 2. I think Austria would break into revolts pretty quickly and they have historically been militarily incompetent since the 30 years war

[@GeorgianPapist514]

A part of me wonders how this would affect Irish independence. Would the alliance side with its member Britain, or its catholic brethren in Ireland?

[@GeorgianPapist514]

This, and a crusader alt history from Videntis in the same week? Us Catholics are eating good today.

[@clarkstrange2142]

What if England stayed Catholic?

[@TheHatersarebad]

What if the Brazilian Empire never fell?

[@EvilEgg331]

I don’t think the Pope would have endorsed World War One for religious reasons. I think he either would have kept Italy neutral, or pressured France and Austria to back down

[@Tom-jg9de]

What if Poland lithuania and Austrian empire form a Alince?

[@saintjacques8137]

Not sure it's the right niche but if anyone's obsessed with hardcore Papal history I strongly recommend Schwerpunkt's relative playlist

[@randomguy6152]

What if Crassus conquered Persi

[@ShadowSkryba]

What if the Revolutions of 1848 were just less radical? Liberal and secular, but not murdery. Maybe the book mentioned in the beggining simply makes a bigger splash and thus the revolutionaries have to moderate due to their Catholic allies?

[@TheDragonborn97]

You know, make two indipendent kingdoms, one semi indipendent grand duchy and two puppet duchies all agreeing to give up their power in order to make the Pope the head of the Confederation wasn't feasible. Not only there's also the issue of Lombardy-Venetia, which would cause frictions with the most powerful catholic state in Europe at the time, but also the differences between the various Italian monarchies, plus the hostility of many monarchs to not concede liberal constitutions.

[@kacperixplayer4061]

What if PLC unified prersonal unions with Sweden and Russia?

[@cdcdrr]

I don't see Italy benefitting from papal control. The interests of the nation would become inextricably linked with those of the entire church. As a consequence, opposition to Italy means opposition towards the pope, and vice versa. Anti-catholic and anti-Italian sentiment are much more closely linked, as many conspiracy theories suddenly become credible. Popes tend to undermine their own legitimacy by becoming heavily involved in wordly politics as happened during the Italian wars. As conflict with Italy unavoidably becomes conflict with the Pope, even catholic countries start to become obstinate as the moral authority of the church ebbs away. Inevitably the Pope will demand something too unreasonable or too arrogant from secular rulers of catholic nations, and people see it as only serving the interests of Italy. And defiance of the Pope becomes expected of leaders who must act in the best interests of their nation, or give the pretense of doing so. It also makes the supreme pontif the target of discontented citizens in Italy itself, who will always be a problem for the papacy. Under a secular government, the church has the option to (pretend) to stand up for the common man when the high falootin' gentlemen in Rome fail to adress the issues that plague any 19th century state. Such as conscription, industrial safety standards, electoral representation, cultural/religious minorities, etc. It can't do so under theocracy, and any real or imagined policy failure falls on the Pope's shoulders. And as the papacy cannot so easily change its position as a government through regular elections or plain old pragmatic flip-flopping, it would be ill-equipped to change course even if it is headed towards a disaster. And as opposition to the government is again inextricably linked with opposition to church policy, more and more people who cross that treshold where they no longer fear the exclusion from not being in communion with the church because their lives have become intolerable, will seek their salvation in protestantism or atheism. And as more of them see the Pope not as the representative of God on earth, the wordly authority that was married to the position declines as well. Leaving papal Italy vulnerable to a liberal or socialist revolution, or a transition to anti-revolutionary fascism.

[@johnshelton1141]

Too many people do not understand the difference between a non-sectarian state,[like the U.S.] and a Secularist state.

[@SPAnComCat]

What if the Eureka Revolt was Successful

[@filipdjukic5422]

What if balkan nations before ww1 unite into Balkan federation

[@TyresaerysTargaryen]

I feel like siding with an explicitly catholic alliance has consequences for all sorts of domestic matters in Britain especially in Ireland

[@UwU-xk5cx]

Honestly, I rlly doubt the UK would join the roman alliance, the UK in fact seems a natural ally of Prussia and Russia first, without germany unified and france and austria still being treats I highly doubt North Germany would try a naval arms race against britain since thats the least of its concerns, specially not to the level it did in our timeline, in our world it did partly due to them already seeing themselves as the rulers of the continent second the roman block is basically a Catholic block while Great Britain is protestant like the north germans third, the brits are known for their balance of power policy, and them joining the catholic block would anhilate said balance fourth, the Italian, French and Austrian navies together are a british nightmare in the mediterranean fifth, the french and italians have several opposing goals to that of the british, unlike the russians and north germans whose goals are mainly continental and dont overlay with those of the british sixth, a Napoleon Bonaparte in the throne of France With the UK on the Prusso-Russian alliance the war would actually be fairly balanced and could go both ways, specially since both sides were mainly authoritarian the US is far less likely to favour any side unless some specific event or series of events happen

[@5nhyfiery]

Austria is large huge respect

[@randomguy6152]

thank you for saying eastern roman empire and reconquered, if you ask me "byzantine" is an insult and the person who made the word up was obviously a believer in the HRE being the actual rome

[@Azurethewolf168]

Yeah that was done way later down the line, everyone agreed it was rome

[@AllAboutMMA]

What if the spain or portugal turned protestant

[@ChariTheAlternate]

Ngl, I agree with this

[@chris92264]

Will be in paradise

[@monsieurcharcutier4490]

I think you currently have more of an antipope

[@lavalord8083]

Nah the Pope is based

[@CountryBallsAreForNERDS]

LIFE COULD BE A DREAM LIFE COULD BE A DREEAAAMMM cryin rn that the pope did not unify Italy

[@pokemasterhja]

Man, if only...

[@JoshuaTreePark2002]

What if Byzantium colonized the Americas

[@awestruckcardboard3431]

It just said if the pope united italy, Not if he stays in power, In which i find it very unlikely for the new Sardinian Government to just summit to the french soldiers, In which France would have crushed the "Italian Federation" and return it to pre-Federation ways. I dont see the Italian Nationalist to just give up as French soldiers are in rome, They would had either won and or lost. I dont see the pope holding his lands unless the Italian Nationalist just gives up.

[@pep-qew1977]

John Paul The Second was the best Pope! Guess from with country I am.

[@stevenmelendez6683]

Bolivia 🇧🇴

[@pep-qew1977]

@@stevenmelendez6683 not Bolivia but close.

[@Mrcinemazo9nn]

Poland

[@pep-qew1977]

@@Mrcinemazo9nn Yes Sir! You're right

[@stevenmelendez6683]

@@pep-qew1977 era bromita 🥺 claramente Polonia 🇮🇩 😎

[@helmutyann5305]

What if she comes back 😂😂😂 (i miss her)

[@cgyoboi]

9:53 seems like you care more about sharing the scenario then actual history 🤓

[@lmperialist-Royalist]

(I don't know what to say)

[@bladefeather2293]

Remember to stop :v and just make an apology vid

[@lightsinthedarkness]

Off topic but; Josh, I really respect the work that you do, but you need to either stop adding to the fire or put it out. I suggest the latter. The viewers would respect you for it. I see that your video from a week ago didn't really gain much likes. And I don't think it's because people don't like you. I believe its because as a viewer drama and fights on public platforms like KZbin are not good and distracting, since it's easier for an argument to get radicalized when its online.

[@lancegabrielpatrimonio3391]

Vivat Cristus Rex

[@pineapplephill7934]

What if josh apologized for the drama ge created?

[@thesehandlessucksomuch]

What if I died?

[@ProlixyBoi]

yoo, lets get this guy to 20k

[@americanmapping832]

Josh not complaining in a video? Massive character development, good for you mate. Cant wait to watch more quality content instead of whining!

[@lightsinthedarkness]

You writing this comment solves nothing. It's wasted time and KZbin data.

[@americanmapping832]

@@lightsinthedarkness congratulating josh for actually moving on is a bad thing? Ok

[@HimmyNeutron2714]

​@@lightsinthedarknessthink you missed the point of the comment...

[@lightsinthedarkness]

@@americanmapping832 using such phrases as whining don't help the situation at all.

[@americanmapping832]

@@lightsinthedarkness how else would you describe doubling down when ph publicly apologized for his statements?

[@badgamemaster]

Like the Pope.... nah I am a Protestant and even if I was a Catholic, I am pretty sure that I wouldn't like that heretic... neat video...

[@lavalord8083]

But hes not a heretic

[@lightsinthedarkness]

​@@lavalord8083sometimes he's not. He's but a sinner like all of humanity.

[@tomas.blitzgod]

Nice Video, but you are just as unrealistic as PH so quit it...

[@cvmpro1944]

What if Josh apologized for whining like a baby to possible history?

[@Interns-Eternal-Empire]

me no like da pope

[@lavalord8083]

L

[@lightsinthedarkness]

Who cares what you like? De pope be what de pope be.

[@HimmyNeutron2714]

Finally, the baby man moves on. However, this is junk history. Deal with it.

[@domca4617]

As expected, a terrible video from a terrible KZbinr.

[@nombremfalso]

Basically the Kingdom of God from EU4 lore

[@elgeneral5279]

What if Josh Sullivan was real?