What is 4D Roleplay?

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Reactionary Principle Gaming - with MrMaxBoivin

6 ай бұрын

I try to explain the different dimensions of roleplaying. No, it has nothing to do with the space-time continuum; it is about how deeply you are involved in the game.
The channel of the people I mentioned:
‪@Tablerunner‬
‪@bigbadrpg‬
‪@28mmRPG‬
‪@GMCody‬
‪@FiLtheThriL‬
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You can check the pre-alpha of my upcoming RPG, Bastard Sword (formerly WinterDawn), here:
www.drunkenclericgames.com/ga...
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Пікірлер: 34

@needmorecowbell6895 6 ай бұрын

A 4d session, as you describe it, is a small sector of the gaming experience. In the world prior to White Wolf, you had miniatures on a grid map. Players asked questions of the DM to understand the world around them. If the DM said it was a 20' corridor that turns left 90 degrees, the player that was the caller or drawer might need a clarification. "How long is the north wall and how long is the south wall?" There was also the job of the caller who synthesized the actions of the party for the DM because there was group initiative. This was perfectly immersive gaming. A lot of thought went into problem solving. We had a table rule for a timeout so that players could speak out of character because the DM may rule that characters speaking to one another might be heard. There's nothing wrong with this kind of gaming because it was a problem solving game. It just scratches a different itch.

@needmorecowbell6895 6 ай бұрын

Take Blood Bowl. Great game. It is a difficult game to master even though the rules are simple. Lots of strategy and tactics as well as punching opponents in the face and fouling them after they hit the ground. It's a fantasy game that doesn't need funny voices to be fun, commercially successful, or enthralling.

@reactionaryprinciplegaming 6 ай бұрын

Yes, that's why I was saying on Bear's channel that we may present 4D as a superior way of gaming, but it's important to understand that this is an opinion; it is better for what WE are looking for in the game, what we value, but other people can be looking for other things in this hobby, and that's fine. The BrOSR, for example, are doing something very different with their gaming. For them, the optimal way of gaming is in a completely different direction. Both style of play can co-exist in the hobby. Not at the same table, but we can all have our table with the style that suits us.

@roboticus9518 2 ай бұрын

I like the 4D way when a GM and the players allow it. Sometimes I find other players will not like it when I do something 4D without the GM's approval! One thing I don't understand though, is what is necessarily wrong with asking the GM things. I can't see what my character sees, so sometimes I need the information to proceed. Mainly relevant in dungeons & specific set locations.

@reactionaryprinciplegaming 2 ай бұрын

What we propose is that instead to ask a question to the GM, you say what your character does. In real life, there is nobody to ask questions to, so what do we do when we want to know something of the world? We interact with the world or we ask someone around. The same should be done in RPGs; instead of asking the GM "how did the well is?", you can say something like "I lean over the well and try to estimate its depth". This might seem like a small details, but by doing the later, you remained "in character" and you anchored this character in the world. This paint a much better picture of what is happening; everybody at the table can now visualise what actually you are doing.

@Tablerunner 6 ай бұрын

Very well put Max. Looking forward to the game Friday!

@DM_Bluddworth 5 ай бұрын

You needed to mention or simply forgot to mention that the higher tiers of Roleplaying demand fewer dice rolling.

@insertnamehere8121 6 ай бұрын

I watched 28mm's Traveller game some time ago. One problem I see with this method is that it attempts to produce maximum immersion through cinematic reference (I've seen a lot of the adherents reference TV shows & movies as examples of when the correct feel has been attained) and replication, but its missing an essential element of the format(s) it wants to capture : Visuals. 50% or more of movie & tv tells its story through visuals, and through world interaction that requires no explanation because base interaction with the world can occur (and be witnessed) just by sight. An example : In 28mm's game he would produce sound effects (here & there) for moving/activated machinery, onboard a ship filled with machinery. At times you wouldnt know what was being activated or moving because there was no clear verbal set up prior to explain what device was in motion. Within the format thats attempting to be replicated (TV & film), you would see the machinery thats being activated. Word based interactive storytelling will require more word use and tools (ex: verbal narration, players questions, etc) to fill in the vast gaps of its limited world generating ability, while its trying to capture the "vibe" of a format (TV & film) that outlines the bulk of an entire world just through moving images. I can present an entire room to you very succinctly with a video, in order for you to even begin to have the same understanding of that room through text or words requires the use of a lot of words, word-based-tools and with those requirements time that creates an expense of storytelling smoothness (that tv & film does not suffer). ...and even then, the full capture of a format that uses real time moving images + audio isnt captured -- because THAT method of storytelling cannot be fully replicated otherwise.

@reactionaryprinciplegaming 6 ай бұрын

I think the important part is to keep our vision fluid and we precise it as we interact with the world more. The GM set the scene in a general way, then, based on that, the players can contribute to the environment through the interactions of their characters. The other players (including GM) adapt their vision to what the characters do and how they interact with the environment.

@fabio.machado 6 ай бұрын

Most of my experience has been on 2D and 3D level play, but those rare 4D moments were very fun! Hope you guys are playing W20 and not the watered down W5 reboot!

@reactionaryprinciplegaming 6 ай бұрын

Yes, we are doing the 20th anniversary version. In a few hours now!

@mykediemart 6 ай бұрын

Everyone needs to be in a common head space to play like that, it can become " yes and.. improv really quick. I am interested to see you guys take on Werewolf. It is one of my favorites with so many themes besides the eco terrorist it gets branded

@reactionaryprinciplegaming 6 ай бұрын

That's a fair point; I wouldn't necessarily try to have that kind of game with just anybody from the street. People need to understand that we are in a collaborative activity.

@blacklodgegames 6 ай бұрын

Which edition of werewolf are you playing

@FiLtheThriL 6 ай бұрын

20th-ish

@TheOGGMsAdventures 3 ай бұрын

ok but what if the GM says, nope there is no drift wood? in order for this to work the Gm has to be part of the immersion, they have to have a yes you can attitude. yes there is driftwood, yes there is a blacksmith. even if the Gm did not plan on their being driftwood on the beach or a blacksmith, they have to be in the yes state of mind. So, what happens when you run up agsint a GM and they are in a NO WAY state of mind?

@tarvoc746 3 ай бұрын

Then you probably can't use this style of playing. I guess it's as simple as that.

@TheOGGMsAdventures 3 ай бұрын

@@tarvoc746 simple and to the point, thanks

@tarvoc746 3 ай бұрын

@@TheOGGMsAdventures You're welcome. 😄

@reactionaryprinciplegaming 3 ай бұрын

A big part of GMing in that style is to be willing to relinquish control and to go with the flow. If you're there to tell a story to your players, and you thought up everything in advance, all the NPCs, all the locals, all the furniture, all the little details of every room, all the problems and their solutions, this is not gonna be for you. I would say that trying to plan ahead for everything is foolish and pointless; prep is like a safety blanket: you think you need it, it makes you feel safe, but you don't need it and, if something happens, the blanket won't protect you. When you embrace having pro-active players and being a reactive GM, it's a much more zen GMing experience. You can cut down on your prep and you really feel like you are playing a game, because you have to make stuff up on the fly, reacting to the contributions of the players. You're no longer there to entertain them; you're playing a game with them. Yes, sometime when you make up stuff on the fly, you won't come up with the best answer you could have got if you had time to think about it, but it doesn't matter. If you want to always come up with the coolest reaction to every event, right a book, don't play a game.

@TheOGGMsAdventures 3 ай бұрын

@@reactionaryprinciplegaming I do that all the time, the blacksmith is a perfect example. emergent rpg, open ended question, 90% of the time I don't have you roll because its just something you should be able to do, don't waste time shopping for things-just assume they have it. How is this different then "Player Agency" or any previous style of reactive game mastering? As I said numerous time, Im not attacking you, I just have never seen it work-I saw nothing good come out of the Forge/Solomon immersive stuff in LA in the early 90's-In fact it got pretty abuseiv. And again, well what happens in 4d if the GM says nope no there is no drift wood on the beach

@FiLtheThriL 6 ай бұрын

Holy smokes, I look forward to having the easiest game to run in my whole life. Looking forward to Friday 830p EST gentlemen.

@reactionaryprinciplegaming 6 ай бұрын

Very excited.

@isaacmarx6277 2 ай бұрын

What do you think of RPG Pundit's view on rpg and immersion?

@reactionaryprinciplegaming 2 ай бұрын

I have to admit that I'm not familiar. RPGPundit and me are at odds.

@isaacmarx6277 2 ай бұрын

@@reactionaryprinciplegaming By what I know of his thesis I suppose he'd say 4D play as described at least gives setting/scene control to players, therefore violating the simulation and thus immersion and possibly challenge. Though I have to say the definition of 4D isnt completely clear from the video (if the intent IS giving group "scenebuilding" or just making play supposedly quickier and "streamlined") 3D play seems at least off, in it you cannot access information the PC would have, as having alreasy seen a driftwood e.g.

@Lepidoptera666 6 ай бұрын

I was told to watch this video to make an opinon. Pretty forest, and lot of heavy breathing. I expect a body was buried recently. "4d gaming", sounds like more elitism and bigotry, a Shonnerism. Labels used to say someone at a lower number are inferior, so anything less than 4, should be insulted for not reaching #4. Gaming does not need this 💩 Shonner started talking about 3d to insult people, now MrMax has a 4d to insult Shonner, and tomorrow someone will make a 5d to insult MrMax. There is no point or purpose in this, and just goes back to the ignorance of that Don Edwards G.N.S. theory, which he recently, in the past few years on a KZbin video, said was a stupid idea and he wants no more part of the G.N.S. talks. Anyone coming up with these nonsense labels to categorize people and insult them, be it Shonner, MrMax, Don Edwards, from past, present, or future, are just living driftwood and have its same intelligence. People play the way they like. Trying to tell someone the way they play is wrong or interior, because "you" know the correct and superior way to play is only done by authoritarian bags of 💩.

@tarvoc746 3 ай бұрын

Sir, this is a Wendy's.