What is a Closet Narcissist?

In this video Darren Magee outlines the closet narcissist, often confused with a covert narcissist as many of the behaviours can be the same. The difference being, unlike with narcissism where someone believes themselves to be unique, special and entitled, the closet narcissist has a pervasive preoccupation with someone else, usually a grandiose narcissist such as a partner or parent.
It can sometimes look like worship, they can put a lot of effort into making sure they happy, loved, and highly respected and esteemed by others. Sometimes acting as flying monkeys, agents, cheer leaders and obedient followers.
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[@DarrenFMagee]

The videos I make are requested by you the viewer. Please feel free to suggest any mental health related topics you'd like me to cover in the future.

[@Portia620]

I need to listen to this one a few times! Confused with this one.

[@Portia620]

My ex-husband and my dad were like this but it is especially after my brother died and I was the third wheel basically they even went out together went places together I was not invited because it was stag like ducks unlimited or something or my mom was supposed to go with my dad and she didn’t go so my husband went in her place many of times so I am very familiar with this closet narcissist stuff

[@allieeverett9017]

So many layers to it all... mind boggling.

[@dontbelongherefromanotherp9807]

I have a co-worker who brags about her husband's success and financial wealth, and how brilliant her children are. Mind you, it's not her story; it's the story of her husband and kids. These conversations can be endless, and you have to excuse yourself to end them with her. Also, I noticed she will bait others into a conversation by asking them what activities they like or what they did over the weekend. When you respond, she hijacks the conversation and redirects it to her and her family. It's so tiring and draining to be her audience. Right, closeted narcs live vicariously through others and want to feel they are part of them. Yes, I believe also she has codependency issues, as other individuals' achievements, help to define her and make her feel connected.

[@Joelswinger34]

Yes! I just broke off a "friendship" where I realized I was just an audience.

[@almondmilksoda]

Narcs don't see other people as people - only as extensions of themselves. This is why they take rejection so terribly; they don't understand the sovereignty of others.

[@sueandwill393]

Wow this video put a lightbulb on something I have been trying to figure out for a long time.Thanks😊

[@writer1986]

Thank you so much for the video! A light bulb just went off in my head. I've been interacting with my MIL for as long as I've been married, and her behavior is a little off for me. Some days I can handle her, some days I can't.... They say we all have a level of narcissism in us, and my MIL doesn't quite fit the covert type. But this--this is her. I'm not trying to diagnose her, but this video just fills me with relief in understanding her better. Whew! Again, thank you!

[@johannajorgensen6416]

I have never heard of this personality type. Fascinating.

[@jessieswims115]

Very hard to see myself in this video. I'm breaking the cycle. But it's hard not to get stuck in the shame of who I've been and feel theres any future outside of that life.

[@Joelswinger34]

I think it takes great courage to face something like that abd work on it! I would focus on that.

[@sssss9586]

Wow, Dr. Magee, you blew my mind! You've explain well, what has happened to my marriage which ended 2 months ago. I didn't worship my ex wife's parents, tried to protect my marriage with children from parents in law, because they tried their best to destroy my family. They deceived us to get their huge debts on our name, and humiliate me in any opportunities they found. I felt lonely because I've never felt my ex wife is on my side defending me. My ex always and still defends me and my children unless her parents looks good. I've been wondered if my ex is narcissist or enabler. Thank you so much, you've answered my biggest question in my life.

[@Anivasion]

This context is mind blowing. I married a covert narcissist, though I grew up with a Grandiose narcissist for a grandparent and recognized THAT type and figured my propensity came from one narcissist. I now recognize closet narcissism characteristics were consistent in one of their children and in one of my half siblings. But once more, your videos are shining a whole new light on my memories.

[@henrietadale5079]

This explains so much…I have met a man online who lives 200miles away from me, he’s 39 and lives and serves his what I believe is his narcissist mother who demands he is her carer. Every time this guy experiences a struggle or some trigger at home, he creates some emotional trigger for me to get upset about and when I do and I get angry as he created some made up argument he tries to calm me down or he turns around and blames me for everything, gaslights me…I felt it was a little sadistic. He always explains that he was under “immerse pressure”….(broken pipe under the sink) and he is ever so sorry. This however is a pattern and I have finally blocked my phone to stop getting hoovered into the “relationship” i am so sad as I have invested to much time and emotions into this, even moved to be with him after covid, which never happened as he was waiting for his mum to accept the situation…how can we identify these predators?

[@Joelswinger34]

The first clue is if they are adults living with their parents! Rub, run away!

[@neililofteus6343]

I would like to know more about the link between Aspergers and narcissism

[@black_sheep_nation]

See Sam Vaknin’s very succinct, and to-the-point video on that subject. Also, his 3-minute description of the Altruistic Narcissist is more valuable than everyone else who came after him.

[@martinst8764]

Very well explained! I needed to hear this. It's a type of behaviour that happens alot in spiritual communities - I've seen it myself but didn't fully understand what was going on until this explanation - very helpful.

[@lauram7101]

Sounds like there might be some overlap with codependency with this particular brand of narcissism. I’m hearing a lot of people pleasing behaviors.

[@hearme4581]

I agree

[@Portia620]

@@kumudukulasekara6684 sounds like my ex as he was attached to my dad and his accomplishments and said wven after divorce my family is his. I’m like leave!!! He will never leave after my brother was found daddy kind of took on that place with my dad and he stole money did a lot of things from me and cheated multiple times treated me and the kids horribly a lot of trauma yet he won’t leave he never leaves

[@Joelswinger34]

Ugh, I hate that passive manipulation they use.

[@chester3621]

this has to be one of thee worst labeled NARC type. 🙄

[@lauram7101]

Narcissism by proxy?

[@christopher_ecclestone]

Could this also be in relation to a child. As in, they live vicariously through their child?

[@LibraLove1717-us8qp]

Is there any "normal" people left? There's Overt narcissists, covert narcissists, malignant narcissists and now closet narcissists! In my opinion you're either a narc or you're not no matter the degree or the label you give them.

[@black_sheep_nation]

No one is giving a diagnosis. Most people who fit cluster B personality disorders are on a spectrum. But, most people also, don't seek out youtube videos titled “closet narcissists”. It's not like it accidentally dropped in your timeline. And yes, there are absolutely categories - the word is categories- not degrees. There are too many f”cked up grown people in this society whose FOO members, or partner don't fit the classic narc definition. The doctor who coined these terms, Sam Vaknin, explains why he did so. Had he not defined an “altruistic narcissist”, my sister will still be “mixed personality disorder” or “unkown”. 25 years of suffering the gaslighting by my BIL from the control, cruelty, sickness, misogyny. Yet he was humble, self-effacing, kind, helpful to strangers. I was baffled. For 25 years, I thought it was me. And both would happily agree. He would've never been uncovered had “covert” narcissist not come out; Moreover, narcissism is a fairly new definition to the modern DSM-IV. Eventually, like others, doctors, and experts will hone, and combine, this particular (extremely damaging to others) personality disorder. It's less to label others, than to help casualties understand they're not crazy. And move on.

[@DarrenFMagee]

Narcissism is narcissism. Covert, overt, altruistic, closet etc are all social constructs.

[@teapot1991]

Could you do a video on covert narcissist sister in laws..One married my brother and ripped the family apart. I have been no contact with them for over 10 years and she is still whingeing about me to any "enabler" who will listen to her.

[@themysticalexperiencer8141]

It's called "The Narcissist's Smear Campaign." There's a video up about that, I think it's titled "How to Survive the Narcissist's Smear Campaign."

[@chester3621]

aren't these people called sycophants?

[@claudiacardinelli1867]

Sounds about right.

[@tiffanyschulemann1793]

The ex still will claim he has ADD and will never take accountability for being abusive. Blame is entirely on me… I just have to move on… Demise of marriage is my fault… oh, well… whatever… sure.

[@Joelswinger34]

Like that preacher William Collins in Pride and Prejudice!

[@shaanz2.087]

Wonderfully explained 💕😀

[@teapot1991]

Great video by the way..

[@drfoye219]

Thank you for this

[@beewise439]

Thank you a trillion 🙏

[@tatie7604]

It is just too much. People are all manipulative for various reasons. We live in a fallen world.

[@black_sheep_nation]

Wow. That's a cynical, simpleton's explanation to keep the world simple, contributing nothing.

[@claudiacardinelli1867]

It's good to have discernment, but what I miss is not having to overthink everything and just relate. The thing with all these personality types is there are elements of typical feelings/moments, but they take it too far, and are repetitive and compulsive about it. Which leads to everybody doubting and distrusting their own motives as well as that of any other person...

[@madmaxxx69]

​@black_sheep_nation3572 the truth is always the simplest explanation 🤷‍♂️ is that too complex for your simple mind?

[@olafwitt7246]

Thank you.

[@hearme4581]

This is me, wow my ex was a narcissistic, I definitely was very servant like for him. I definitely fall into this description. I thought it was codependency or borderline. My mom taught me this behavior. I was her mother coming up.

[@Poppy-yx8js]

The person who has most frequently been robbing my house during this smear campaign can’t be a person who used to work for me or an ex. Perhaps they did on one of the occasions I was gone a long time- but most of the break ins happened when I was only gone a short time- once I was only gone 15min - so I know the person who is breaking in lives right here- is my neighbors. They might have helped the others in the 2 robberies where the most was stolen- but it has to be a neighbor given the time. I’m trying to recover my property. It’s very very upsetting that any of my property would be taken. The whole thing is upsetting.

[@bernieyuen8445]

I had this individual in our community home who didn't quite fit the grandiosity nor the covert type. He would make empty promises and of course get aroused when we get mad at him for not delivering. He would go tell everyone to calm down when conversations got heated so it appeared as he was the good guy. He used to abuse his 2 cats, starve them, overfeed them, shout at them and treat them roughly. Although, he was always calm and composed in group settings, he listened to punk, heavy metal, gothic and loud music at his own leisure. I don't judge but music and sounds has an effect on one's wellbeing. He was always reluctant to help others and drop subtle hints that a reward is needed for his services. While I don't quite blame him for the way he is as he was married to a grandiose narcissist for many years. He was still energetically serving that person and trying to please that person only. It's a sickening relationship as he became an extension of the grandiose narcissist. In the process of removing this individual from our lives as well now.

[@aidankiely9672]

Interestingly on the Internet it seems that closet and covert are used interchangeably to describe the vulnerable narcissist. Is the distinct pattern outlined here more commonly described in other terms, for example narcissism by proxy?

[@carluvrsd9374]

About 20 years ago a friend of mine used the term "co-narcisists" to describe an odd brother-sister relationship at church. He had just finished his masters in Psych. Is co-narcissism the same as the closeted one?

[@AlastorTheNPDemon]

Wow, this was me 100% in my adolescence, but I worshipped fictional characters! First it was Arbiter from _Halo_ then it was my Argonian from _Skyrim,_ and now it's the cultural symbol of Satan (I don't believe in a literal Devil), while I myself want to be Alastor from _Hazbin Hotel._ First I would see the Arbiter Thel 'Vadam as my externally sourced False Self that I and others must emulate and hold in highest regard, his species (the "Elite" Sangheili) a hidden nugget of nobility and aristocratic refinement. Then I went back to playing as Chief and it felt... wrong. As I was forced to butcher members of this superior species, I felt incredibly guilty, but of course I placed the blame on anyone who dared to hurt the Elites. Arbiter's image became one of invincibility and wisdom, as that is how I wanted to view myself, but we were also a Messiah to a noble species I perceived as victimized. Still, any harm or bad-mouthing of the Sangheili would make me terribly sad and hate humanity. Then came the Argonians... the infamous lizard people in all their ferocity, right? I thought so when I was playing as one, slaying bandits and dragons and all that. Then it turned out the Argonian NPCs were being badly mistreated, and my heart sank once again... but my rage ignited when I read about their enslavement. I was absolutely malicious towards anyone who was disrespectful to them, I tolerated disrespect from Argonian-hating Nords as some masochistic narc supply, and saw my character as a vigilante. I told almost nobody about my deep, tragic love for this unbelievably kind species, which might be why I was suffering from narcissistic injuries starting with my infatuation. Fast forward a few years, and with nobody in the virtual world to call my master, I grew resentful at everyone around me because I was also being mercilessly abused by my malignant brother. I then watched _Hazbin Hotel_ and instantly fell in love with the Radio Demon Alastor. Now... this guy is fucking evil and charismatic and nobody trashes him. He also looks a lot like IRL me, so I might one day be able to turn into (a socially acceptable version of) him. I changed my interests and even preferred sexuality to match his, and I did some Shadow work to pull some much-needed edge out of myself. Being a jazzy grandiose narcissist demon is going to be so much fun! I am but the meat suit he inhabits and I carry his name with reverence - might even change my first name to Alastor, but I'm so worried about messing up and being a poor ambassador to it. Also, thanks to whoever gave me a thumbs up! You have no idea how much this means to me!

[@Mariaaaaaaaa213]

Reminds me of the lawyer guy from Pretty Woman.

[@nugget6635]

So they are basically just codependents?

[@imomvt]

Thank you! I've never heard this before and I recognize the pattern and behavior. Is "closet narcissist" the same as having a "fusion relationship"?

[@DarrenFMagee]

That’s an interesting question but I think it’s more than just loving devotedly or finding your soulmate. Just my initial thoughts but I haven’t researched it

[@deckchaironthetitanic]

Darren, where can I find more info on this topic? Both of my siblings fit the bill, one via our mother, the other via his malignant narc wife. You are the only person that I can find who has addressed this. I suggest you say more about it ;o)

[@kahlodiego5299]

The other person doesn't care about them.

[@Mouse_Metal]

Submissives in BDSM "relationships" fit this description perfectly.

[@francesbernard2445]

I don't believe in this concept because if it was true then god himself must have been showing himself to be a closet narcissist when praising Job when the Satan could be listening.

[@Joelswinger34]

Speaking of delusions...do you seriously believe all that nonsense?

[@exquisitebiscuit]

Ivanka Trump?

[@joe-mama6451]

Sounds like everyone is a narcissist in some form. Whether overt, covert, closet it seems to cover the spectrum of humanity. So if everyone is a narcissist then no one is.