What is the Difference Between Avoidant Personality Disorder and Social Anxiety Disorder?

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[@AceRamone]

I am 55 with avpd and it's frustrating not to be able to find therapists who know how to treat this and the lack of research makes it difficult to figure out what I can do about it. And spending Thanksgiving alone. I can't even remember the last time I spent any holiday with anyone.

[@mikey3666]

Try working with a therapist who specialises in social anxiety disorder

[@xcobyxzei]

Sorry to hear this 😢 praying for you 🙏🏼

[@ldolan4051]

Just maybe your the one with the brains avoiding people😊 Get a puppy, great company and icebreaker for company🐶. Find other icebreakers. Count on relying on yourself.

[@yourneighbor2567]

Happy Thanksgiving, brother. 🦃 🥧🍂

[@rl3293]

Thinking of you today ❤

[@chubbycatfish4573]

There's not nearly enough research on AvPD.

[@ranc1977]

Due to pharma mafia, making a lots of money on human neurosis from people who are quiet, self censor, shut up and take every BS which "experts" force out of their butt.

[@Yoshi92]

People with severe AvPD would never search help, so it is hard to find these people.

[@ranc1977]

​@@Yoshi92 Yep- and then covert narcissists step in. Vulnerable narcissists who are also traumatized and avoid society - but they hold grudge against society. Avoidants fear social situations but desire to form social contact. Narcissists disguised as avoidants and socially anxious actually seek easy targets: other avoidants and socially anxious to control and manipulate them. Covert narcissists will playpretend to have social anxiety in order to gain narcissistic supply: other people. Vulnerable narcissists will mimic social anxiety to gain easy sympathy from others. This way psychopaths become spokesmen for avoidants and socially anxious. Truly avoidants and socially anxious will hate talking about themselves, bringing attention to themselves due to fear or ridicule. Covert narcissists will have no problem talking - and they will enter therapy to gain knowledge and education how to exploit empaths and sensitive people who shut up and fawn to everyone, who are codependent to abusers. Now covert narcissists will become measure what is social anxiety and avoidance - since they do not have social anxiety at all. They have natural reactions of hatred and disgust by people who they have done them wrong to - yet narcissist as expert in avoiding accountability will explain these natural reactions of abuse as fears and inhibitions in social situations. That way CBT got wrong results in their big study and analysis done in early 1990s when social anxiety and avoidance were being defined and entered into DSM. Narcissists explained to dumb CBT "experts" what is social anxiety - and this carries on even today because CBT is faulty therapy full of errors.

[@ikewhite6832]

​@Marek Kamiński I can't trust them. they are supposed to be good, but I doubt it. they would tell the government. I would be in danger. I go to counselors, but tell them very little.

[@OmniversalInsect]

@user-jl7rv7tr6e So true

[@ChooseLoveToday316]

Two people in my life have this. They are the kindest most wonderful people i've met.

[@dykula5017]

this is so nice! :)

[@jane1891]

Thanks for being kind to them

[@rufusneumann9703]

this = ?

[@guruwu1566]

Most people with this disorder tend to be kind hearted but are often misunderstood due to the nature of their disorder. Like being trapped in your own mind unless someone who’s emotionally ‘free’ and compassionate comes along

[@Raul-nv7rr]

Yes, very kind… and scared out of their wits!! LOL 😮

[@Yoshi92]

I have AVPD and when I talk to friends who have SAD, I wish I had SAD. They go out, and are scared. I don't go out at all, because I don't wanna be scared. A big difference in life quality. Having fear, versus having fear of the fear. I think my main problem is that I have no problem staying at home, staring at a blank wall, for hours. Other ppl would be annoyed and rather go and do the "scary" thing, but I cba at all to do anything most of the time and rather stare at a blank wall.

[@malizee2264]

Was just looking into this disorder for myself… I too have no problem sitting and staring at the wall! I feel like, why go out, when I can sit here and just imagine it…

[@brianmeen2158]

If you have no problem staying home then what’s the problem?

[@1Za5203]

​@@brianmeen2158maybe the feeling of guilt or feeling left behind

[@Peachyheart777]

Well, I have sad and I don’t go out and get scared, unless it’s really necessary I stay home too. I don’t wanna get scared and go out I wanna avoid it, also because I’m scared of what people will think if I get anxious. I don’t know how your friends feel, but it is not fun too have sad, i don’t know how bad your friends sad are since they still go out but I’m guessing not that bad. I personally can get anxious to the point where I feel like I might faint or throw up and stab myself with pencils in the thigh, just to not think about it and focus on the pain, just from saying something out loud in class. You also talk about you not having a problem with staying home, i technically would rather do something but I am way too scared to ever do it. Sad is also a constant spiral of self hate and judgement and honestly makes you wanna kill yourself.

[@evolved1665]

I have not been diagnosed, in fact I never had any therapy because of my intense fear and avoidant behavior, but I relate so much. Sometimes I'm so frustrated and try to think of the reasons I am so comfortable being completely isolated like it geniuinely frustrates me that I have no issue with this.

[@birdlover6842]

I have an intellectual disability and because I've been bullied and victimized I fear being hated, treated badly and being hurt by neurotypicals. People don't like dumbbells. My relatives hated me.

[@ChooseLoveToday316]

I'm sorry things have been rough. You are worthy of love.

[@jane1891]

Well, your written language skills are pretty top notch for someone with an “intellectual disability” I’d be getting a second opinion if I were you.

[@a.p.1298]

Can u shed more light on the “disability” understanding u might be able to better help understand myself..

[@birdlover6842]

@@a.p.1298 I have cognitive limitations. It affects me socially too. My parents wanted a child without mental impairments. It used to called mental retardation. I have pragmatic social disability too, it is the other half of autism but no sensory issues or restricted interests, etc.

[@Pizzahutbaby]

I understand this. Don't know what to tell you other than you deserve others man.

[@shamanllama]

I experience all of those severely and constantly

[@nikku3184]

same . i wanna try new things desperately, like going to a boxing gym . im just so scared of being judged behind my back or embarrassing myself or just feeling like a loser that doesnt belong .

[@tonylittleton3396]

​@Nikku same bro thats so cool I also have a strong desire to take a boxing class but my brain just can't handle all the risks associated with doing that let alone anything

[@LuciaInman]

Fascinating terminology and topic. I’m so interested in Cluster C. I definitely feel identified with AvPD. Although I was diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder. Just last night I was talking with a psychologist friend of mine, and she explained to me how motivation can be key to diagnose. For example to be able to differentiate between a narcissist and someone with ASPD or secondary psychopathy. It made me realize how the inner emotions and mental process can really draw a drastic difference within the same action. She is specialized in psychosis by the way. Thank you as always, Dr. Grande

[@pocoeagle2]

That's interesting, Lucia 👍

[@kaz3322]

I have both AVPD and SAD. It is frustrating that there is not a lot on AVPD. People don't understand that AVPD is not all about avoiding a situation...it's the reason behind the avoidance.

[@sara.m88]

I have both as well

[@rejaneoliveira5019]

Thank you for the explanation, Dr. Grande.❤

[@cottontails9003]

This is a great educational topic. Thank you Dr Grande. It's Saturday, here hope you have a great day.

[@Missliaz]

AVPD has ruined my life I come from a large family of 9 siblings I had a great childhood yet I developed this around 8 years old something happened to me that led me to this dark loneliness I struggle to keep relationships I run away from every man I marry I enjoy being alone yet I cry always wishing I had a lot of friends and the confidence I struggle to even keep jobs I’ve had good jobs the years but I leave them once it gets to a point that I must interact and get involved with people I make excuses and end up leaving that job I avoid human interaction I just spent a year in a country home alone when I got back into the city I had a mental breakdown couldn’t cope I smile always and laugh I’m a happy person but I got a deep rooted sadness and quit frankly don’t think I will pass the age of 32 I hope I can die in peace at least hopefully I don’t feel like I belong in this world I’ve never felt like I belong anywhere I avoid even visiting doctors I only rather do telephone appointments and when they say they are concerned and would like me to go in I change my number and just pray and think my issues will go away but As I get older this darkness is getting worse for me I just wish we can legalise suicide in this country because I don’t feel happy at all I born to be miserable and have accepted it

[@lisanelke9726]

Do not accept that you have to stay miserable . I thought I did too but I didn't. God can bring great healing and I pray He will bring someone into your life to help you see this 🙏💖

[@puddincakes1005]

Please know you have the strength and capability to face your fears and get help. If you can’t reach out in person, please do virtual sessions with a therapist. You matter. I may be a random person on the internet, but I am worried for you. I’ve been through some dark times with major depressive disorder and social anxiety, and didn’t want to leave the house, but let me tell you, it’s those small little steps towards healing that have the biggest impact. Focus on small successes and you will be able to reach out and get the help you need. You are not alone despite what your brain wants you to think. There are others out there who want to help you.

[@Missliaz]

@@lisanelke9726 amen I pray this darkness is lifted i appreciate ur kind message and hope you have a great lovely day ahead ☺️☺️☺️☺️☺️☺️☺️☺️☺️

[@Missliaz]

@@puddincakes1005 thank you for your kind and caring message I’m not in a good state of mind but I e because of God I’m not gone yet i have 2 things keeping me from taking my life my Lord and my mom Wouldn’t want her to lose me as she’s been through a lot she claims I’m her favourite child and I was super close but I lost the connection to her I’m a failure and haven’t achieved things i should’ve Hence why I keep to myself I appreciate the time u out it in typing this mind message it means a-lot Thank you 😊🥰 🥰🥰🥰

[@RabebHmida-ux8gh]

I hope you're not losing hope and that things will get better. I relate to a lot of the things you described and I know how hard it can be, but please keep fighting and hold on, as I'm sure brighter days will come ❤ sending tou a lot of love and strength

[@ldolan4051]

Good to hear that concept, now DSM V needs to apply same to mourning and depression; completely different imo.

[@arisu229]

I was like this when I was in high school. I dropped out because of it. I hated the donut shop. I was always criticized alot for all kinds of stuff. That was 10 years ago.

[@Olivetree80]

I definitely agree that they're not on the same spectrum, because in many ways I don't have social anxiety.

[@jackiegrice714]

Man I missed one! Oh well, at least I saw it eventually. My notifications are kind of intermittent. I loved the explanation. I find learning about the motivations behind disorders fascinating-it never stops surprising me how people can be so similar, but so different at the same time. Thanks Dr Grande

[@multivox_musik]

In my case it inferiority/inadequacy and fear of rejection which leads to reassurance seeking.

[@theGhostSteward]

So happy to see you here doc :3

[@janetmiller2980]

I don’t know what disorder I have other than not feeling particularly sociable today. Yet I need to be someplace in an hour, oh dear. Happy Thanksgiving Dr. Grande!

[@DoubleDash28]

Great info Dr. G thank you

[@lnc-to4ku]

Love learning from you, Dr. Grande! ♡♡

[@lupine.spirit161]

Is it possible to have AvPD and BPD? I am diagnosed with BPD but I am seeing a strong pattern in my own thinking and behavior for AvPD. And I’ve also been told I could be autistic by several professionals. Can I really have all of it? Or is this overlapping of symptoms? 😖

[@anantsharma738]

hit the gym

[@lupine.spirit161]

@@anantsharma738 already do, wtf??

[@rockyevans1584]

​@@anantsharma738 dont give advice you found on tik tok or yt shorts. Everyone needs exercise, it doesn't cure actual mental health issues. I'm going to hold back from all the rude stuff I want to say, but your comment is incredibly ignorant and short sighted

[@LedZedd]

​​​@@lupine.spirit161 That person is a fucking moron. "The gym" doesn't solve personality disorders. Keep working on yourself, (physical fitness included but nowhere near limited to) and you'll make progress. I also have BPD, and I find that connecting with people on a meaningful level makes a difference, and that a healthy level of apathy can help with anxiety towards rejection.

[@japan1001ify]

The comorbidity between avpd and bpd is quite high so you could have both. Some studies show that it is actually more common to have comorbid symptoms of other personality disorders or even full diagnosis of other personality disorders than to have just one personality disorder alone. Though most often the treatment is focused on the main personality disorder, but in many cases the other personality disorder must be specifically treated as well. That is why in icd-11 they removed the concept of specific personality disorders completely and diagnose a complex of individually different traits/symptoms as having a personality disorder.

[@mascotwithadinosaur9353]

I love being around others, but I always feel that I'm inherently lesser simply by being me. It makes me afraid that I'm bothering others and that they'll leave me

[@cottontails9003]

That is a great educational analysis. Thank you Dr Grande.

[@Nick-cw9my]

since both predict social isolation, how exactly are patient with AVPD and schizoid personality disorder different in their internal emotional states, cognitive framing and external symptoms?

[@c.r.k.7162]

I don’t know but I believe people with schizoid don’t care to have personal relationships while people with AvPD may want to but can’t.

[@ranc1977]

"since both predict social isolation" Literally any psychological issue predicates social isolation. Any.

[@c.r.k.7162]

@@marekkaminski8518 my fiance was diagnosed with avoidant personality disorder. He wants relationships but struggles knowing how to interact socially. He definitely doesn't seem to have any form of psychosis otherwise and has a stable career. If he has any schizophrenia like symptoms I sure don't see it.

[@c.r.k.7162]

@@marekkaminski8518 aren't schizoid and avoidant disorders in completely different clusters? I'm not seeing how they are both on a schizophrenic spectrum being in different clusters.

[@c.r.k.7162]

@@marekkaminski8518 interesting you should mention autism because I've been thinking thinking my fiance is autistic for a while.

[@SouthernBelleUSA8]

I avoid people because people are untrustworthy & self obsessed. Just being around anyone makes me quake in my boots. Best alone. INFP so live in my own happy inner world. Be nice or I’m deleting…

[@natsuki4829]

I'm infp and experience social anxiety symptoms, hate stepping outside my house (⁠╥⁠﹏⁠╥⁠)

[@janycebrown4071]

I think that I may have both😬

[@georgiavaughn5110]

Love u...need to see ur videos so thank u for being here.

[@bthomson]

These short form videos are like the cherry on top! 🍒 As we wait ( never for very long!) for the longer ones, we are pleasantly supplied with the short ones!

[@SocialAnxietyMustGo]

what's the difference between humiliation and rejection though

[@Dragonboy55564]

Rejection is about interpersonal connection (e.g. fear of abandonment, fear of reduction or loss in connection, isolation from society, lack of self worth, etc.) whereas humiliation is about society's perception of you and personal identity (e.g. fear of looking bad, wounded ego, fear of not meeting societal expectations, related to shame and pride, etc.) They both involve insecurities but one is more about self worth and the other is more about reputation.

[@sara.m88]

I have both 😅😄

[@malizee2264]

Thank you.

[@The_alchemistress]

Say Dr. Grande, what’s the difference between schizophrenia prodrome and schizotypal personality disorder? I was diagnosed with schizophrenia, but I never hit the acute phase in my life. I still have this chronic feeling of paranoia and haunting feeling as though spirits are flooding my mind and space.

[@Dylan_ology]

Well, in that case, I have AvPD.

[@pipnipipa7627mimmahappunchaol]

I do-not have any Social Anxiety disorder. Unless I am confronting a tyrant or someone that is abusive , I could feel the opposite shouting at it or attack it. .. No I do not have that disorder example the engineering working on my neighborhood water tank I did not want to see them and I did see them , to inform them that my loo water can not flush my loo is out of order . Maybe it is the revenge for my neighbors below the fact my loo water leaked on their walls ?

[@ranc1977]

Why don't you fix that water issue?

[@axscy9685]

damn i always felt like i had anxiety but without the care of what people think of me so does that mean i have could apd?

[@approximate1665]

Are fear of rejection and fear of humiliation not the same thing? because if you get humiliated or made fun of in front of people, you are obviously going to get rejected... i just feel like they sre basically the same, no?

[@OmniversalInsect]

I think the bigger difference is that AvPD is more pervasive in one's life while social anxiety is more situational.

[@mrlloyd149]

Social Anxiety Disorder is just SAD

[@goldfishi5776]

Doc what are your opinions about the BAU's efforts in the college student quad-murder in Idaho. I ask because their statements felt to devoid of analysis and purely statistical. Listening to your analysis of cases compared to their statement, it just felt like they were negligent in what they offered the public.

[@ldolan4051]

It's under investigation. There is so much that can't be shared I suppose.

[@m.f.richardson1602]

thank you peace 💕🇺🇲

[@markettrader911]

What’s the difference between an academic who psycho analyzes strangers on KZbin and the worlds richest entrepreneur who founded Tesla and is going to Mars?

[@bthomson]

Should there have to be a correlation? Dr. Grande (if that is who is referenced in the first instance?) is a gifted content provider whose research is quick and good! I see no need to compare him to anyone?

[@PjRjHj]

What about both?

[@uS0ra]

what if you fear both

[@patriciasaldanha7243]

Don't these two overlap? When a person has severe bouts of social anxiety and he doesn't deal with them in a healthy way it gets worse and he becomes Avoidant like crazy ? Like when you don't know how to navigate the ice-cream counter in the supermarket (it's supposed to be cordoned off in your mind) you get chubby in the wrong places and you ruin yourself on Hagen Daz when it would have been a wiser choice to ruin yourself on accessories; because they would have nade you look prettier introduced variety in your wardrobe and activated your artistic abilities? Instead of pandering to your gluttonous disabilities? Thank you Dr. Grande, for your valuable insights and delightful dissections of cold. not so cold and hot cases .🌷🌕🍃☆🎁■💮♡🌙

[@jasonsmith373]

Signs of avoident for me, lol sadly. I like socializing, it's just all the anxiety involved getting myself there to the party or what have you. I've missed events and later (sometimes immediately) regretted it many times. But you get a few drinks in me (rare) and Blah-Blah Blah-Blah, lol! Look, Everybody's got Xanax while all poor ole Jason has is his weed & his Lexapro! 😉😆🤪

[@gracecatz3996]

I think I have both

[@colleenc5932]

I have avpd and bpd and it's horrific

[@ldemarketing]

I think I have both AVPD and SAD, is it possible to have both? I haven't been to a psychiatrist to get diagnosed because I don't have insurance right now, but I have been extremely shy my entire life and avoid practically everyone.

[@salvador8923]

You can have both.

[@urielflames3799]

I am unable to go out in public this world is not safe it's not being insecure.

[@evanfurn920]

But what if I avoid people for all the reasons you listed?

[@ranc1977]

Complex Trauma, not the same as PTSD. Complex PTSD explains all trauma issues and gives clear advice what to do. CBT and DSM are focused on keeping us sick.

[@aeris2001]

I have both :(

[@KisDraga]

Soo...that means my social anxiety is actually avpd...interesting.

[@donnaroman9310]

I'm in a phobia therapy group working on social phobia. So far avoidant personality disorder has not been mentioned. I'm going to bring it up. When I did bring up my fear of rejection and my fear of being humiliated the response was that it is social anxiety. I thought I had two different phobias. This explanation makes more sense. I wish you best wishes with your recovery. 💜

[@Olivetree80]

Don't self diagnose, especially just from a short on KZbin

[@hemiltongrace6699]

I did

[@jamesgardner6707]

But what if the motive contains all the above? Is it like Super Mega Agrocrag Disorder? Do you have it.....? GUTS! 😂

[@floratink]

Still don’t quite understand. I can identify myself in both aspects. I am diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder.

[@keifer7813]

What even is a disorder? Sounds like something to call any atypical behaviour

[@fitnesspoint2006]

what if you like talking gravitational field equations, and nuances between hamasVS.hezbollah, or if antibiotics or anesthesia is greater contributor to humanity. But folks look at me glass eyed when i want to talk about this stuff because its fun for me. I hate chit chat about the weather and what what Sally said to Sue about Jim. or how much they partied on their vaca. So i just dont bother with most folks because i find them insipid and banal. I dont think that fits either the reason for SAD or GAD...

[@_rosetto_1222]

👤

[@jane1891]

You should all really consider taking the MBTI test. I’d be willing to bet that most of the people here are simply just one of the four intuitive + introverted types (INTP INFP INTJ INFJ) Those four types are super intuitive (meaning, not “neurotypical”) as well as super introverted. Also, they’re all often mislabelled as having learning or intellectual disorders, despite being the top highest IQ personality types. They’re all just extremely unconventional, eccentric and quirky, in their nature, most of the time.

[@salvador8923]

MBTI is not based on any type of science. Also, being an introvert is not the same thing as being quiet, shy or, having AvPD.

[@jane1891]

@@salvador8923 Correct, extroverts can be withdrawn and quiet and introverts can be outgoing and very talkative.

[@taylorbee4010]

S A D Or sad

[@bradweir5579]

So you're saying I have both...

[@paulheydarian1281]

Isn't everything a CONstruct these days?

[@Ij-jan]

They sound pretty much the same.

[@edwardabdel5693]

Dr Grande.. are you Italian ?

[@littlethuggie]

Be really cool if you weren't reading notes all the time and just spoke from knowledge and recall.

[@bthomson]

I never get the feeling that Dr. Grande is overly scripted?

[@whiteshadow8520]

How is this not just “being shy”? Doesn’t calling it a disorder discourage people from trying to overcome it?

[@japan1001ify]

No I can see quite the difference in myself from what you have mentioned. Knowing about this disorder (been diagnosed with it) has helped me in overcoming it and still very much trying to overcome it, facing my fears everyday stressing me out very much but I will never give up. Calling it „shy“ would be an extreme understatement to the actual severity of the disorder. Other people may see it as the person is just being shy but the amount of suffering for the affected person is very high.

[@ldolan4051]

@@japan1001ify not necessarily regarding stress.

[@unavoidablycanadian397]

Because I'm not bashful. I'm not insecure. I am TERRIFIED. I am BESIDE MYSELF. I dissociate and freak TF out.

[@whiteshadow8520]

I remember when I was young I was physically unable to speak in some situations and I tried to avoid being alone with people I didn’t know well

[@japan1001ify]

@@whiteshadow8520 was it only when you were young or is it the same now as well ?

[@user-h8k4jcxmfr]

If you’re male, increasing your testosterone levels through exercise and nutrition goes a long way in reducing your AvPD and SAD symptoms. You’ll be more focused in “the real world” instead of made-up ideas in your mind.

[@goldfishi5776]

Including any act that may increase your social standing can naturally biochemically increase your serotonin. When I am in a relationship, I always have an incredible amount of energy and need little sleep; otherwise I require twice as much rest with my physically demanding work.

[@unavoidablycanadian397]

I wish I could find something that would motivate my husband to practice physical exercise. He needs it for his mental health, he has the body composition(many health conscious friends have agreed), but he is so resistant to it( Edit) because of anxiety 🤷‍♂️

[@ranc1977]

If you label your natural reaction to abnormal people as sickness, you will develop toxic shame and narcissism, more mental illness.

[@annesmith1491]

this explains why people drink at events. oye

[@theGhostSteward]

So happy to see you here doc :3