What is Wrong with Current Media? | Podcast With Pax Tube

[@jimluebke3869]

Strictly speaking, _The Chronicles of Narnia_ are an Isekai. The genre can be either good or evil.

[@stroodlepup]

So is Alice in wonderland, The Little Prince, hahaha

[@theclown3967]

Lmao

[@sketchystruggles5361]

Try far away paladin. It’s got a lawful good protagonist.

[@pauloazuela8488]

Superbook was also considered despite it being an anime dedicated for Christian kids

[@shmeebs387]

So are The Wizard of Oz and John Carter of Mars, sort of.

[@helghanministerofpropaganda]

On the topic of Attack on Titan sharing similarities with Starship Troopers(Book). Hajime Isayama got the idea for Attack on Titan after reading a visual novel called Muv-Luv which took direct inspiration from the 80s anime adaptation of Starship Troopers. Muv-Luv shares a lot of concepts and themes with Attack on Titan such as humanity struggling against the odds and the virtue of self sacrifice for your duty and those you love.

[@wolfiewoo3371]

Isn't Muv-Luv a hentai game?

[@OdaManjiro]

@@wolfiewoo3371 Yes originally, but the console versions and manga/anime adaptations most people would know lack such content mostly.

[@wolfiewoo3371]

@@OdaManjiro I don't know chief. I've done a google image search and, I'm seeing girls of questionable age wearing tight bodysuits and some mechs.

[@OdaManjiro]

@@wolfiewoo3371 By "such content" I meant coitus. You can find what you listed in Super Robot Taisen which is not hentai

[@wolfiewoo3371]

@@OdaManjiro Ecchi, then.

[@jimluebke3869]

“Napoleon Bonaparte once taunted a Catholic cardinal by threatening: “Your Eminence, are you not aware that I have the power to destroy the Catholic Church?” To which the cardinal quipped: “Your Majesty, we Catholic clergy have done our best to destroy the Church for the last eighteen hundred years. We have not succeeded, and neither will you.”

[@edenmckinley3472]

On the subject of the Hays Code and sexualization in media -- It's funny that you two should mention that because I've heard three different people talking about it recently. Being a conservative, I agree with a lot of what the Hays Code said, but some of the laws do seem unnecessarily constricting. For instance, the passage about childbirth never being depicted. This greatly reduces the potential for any stories about becoming a mother, a topic I have yet to see fleshed out. There is also the rule that priests, pastors, and leaders in the church can never be depicted as evil or corrupt, which limits a storyteller's ability to critique depraved behavior in the church. A large part of the Divine Comedy was dedicated to doing just that, and it was read in literature classes at the same time the Hays Code was in effect. I think the point of the Hays Code was to make creators more mindful of their influence and more responsible with their content. But the downside to outlawing vice is that vice becomes more desirable -- the forbidden fruit complex. I recently watched a video where a Christian woman said she didn't agree with Muslim modesty standards because by covering up the woman's entire body, they essentially fetishized the female form.

[@cyberpunkfalangist2899]

Realistically in this day in age, people who want degenerate stuff will find the means to do so, but keeping the layman away is probably a reasonable approach, especially since most people can't be bothered to figure out how proxies or vpns work and will do whatever an authority figure tells them to do.

[@christopher9727]

Do you know Jesus Christ can set you free from sins and save you from hell today Jesus Christ is the only hope in this world no other gods will lead you to heaven There is no security or hope with out Jesus Christ in this world come and repent of all sins today Today is the day of salvation come to the loving savior Today repent and do not go to hell Come to Jesus Christ today Jesus Christ is only way to heaven Repent and follow him today seek his heart Jesus Christ can fill the emptiness he can fill the void Heaven and hell is real cone to the loving savior today Today is the day of salvation tomorrow might be to late come to the loving savior today Romans 6.23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. John 3:16-21 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Mark 1.15 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Hebrews 11:6 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Jesus

[@drwalmgc]

I've seen Pax's video on Crusades, it was quite good. 1st Crusade's Battle of Antioch is such an amazing event that even secular authors couldn't escape terms as "miraculous" while speaking about it.

[@cyberpunkfalangist2899]

Ascribing anything other than divine intervention for the entirety of the first Crusade makes the whole event seem like it was some middle schoolers fan fiction considering how badly planned, organized, and supplied it was especially at the end where a random Genoese merchant ship shows up with everything the crusaders needed to make the assault on Jerusalem.

[@1685Violin]

Freda made a very fallacious video response to that Crusades video. He's so left wing, he even responded to left wing history KZbinr Kraut for a few right wing bias.

[@Munthasir123]

Dude that video was filled with inconsistencies and out of context points. One of the source was literally Wikipedia and another source was a book from a guy who is so biased and one sided that his book was used in the manifesto of a right wing bombing of a hospital. The best part was when Pax used Peter the hermit as a source of proof of persecution of Christians. Peter was never mentioned again in his video. Pax ignored number of manuscripts of Christians who wrote that Peter before Crusade never set foot in the East let alone Middle East. Ignored the fact 90% of Peter’s crusade consisted of attacking Jews and other denominations of Christians all of whom were unarmed. Peter nearly sacked Byzantium in name of Christianity. When he finally faced an army got promptly defeated then sold his story to gain sympathy in the actual Crusading army. Or or how about the time Pax justified Spanish Inquisition by blaming Spanish Moores for the action of Seljuk Turks which took place a couple of hundred years ago in a completely different part of the World by a different people. But to Pax they are all the same. Pax also stripped away context that Seljuk Turks recently converted into Islam for political reasons but weren’t actually practicing Muslims. They used to drink, eat pork, sleep around with random women. Pax took away those context because otherwise you would realize these were essentially Mongols who less than a 100 year ago sacked Baghdad so to them sacking Christian city wasn’t a religious thing. These are the types of context Pax took away just to proof his “based” take of history. It’s nothing but revisionism.

[@vaderkurt7848]

​​@@Munthasir123Yes in the same vain that Voltaire and protestant denominations tried to do revision on the crusades. And he most specifically talked about the 1st crusade. Most would condemn the 4th crusade Here go cry some crocodile tears right after secularists were exposed for their lies.

[@elpsykoongro5379]

Pax and pilgrim pass in one video? This is the legendary moment

[@davidfereira5354]

Yes. Agreed 👍

[@GALA89]

the second i saw that i shitted my pants

[@m9ant]

​@@GALA89 Yeah ! toss your shit within their channels. They'll feel right at home

[@GALA89]

@@m9ant cry about it

[@ailius1520]

I believe Isekai is a response to eastern and specifically Japanese culture. They have their own issues. Specifically they never had a version of the 3rd Commandment, so right now Japan and South Korea have workaholic culture where everybody is sort of drafted into becoming a drone for the corporate machine at late middle school. Everyone works late and lives in a concrete brick. Lots of them aren't even starting families at all because there simply isn't enough free time left after the company takes it all. The Isekai is a symptom of hopelessness. At the other end of the spectrum from Mushoku Tensei you have things like Reincarnated as a Slime where the protagonist actually has his life in order (mostly) before the death, though he still ends up alone because the real world isn't fair right now, and the second he's in another world he becomes that world's premiere statesman simply by being an adult. But yes, it's really depressing that Japanese writers are "writing off" reality. That's their national problem though. Another dark part of anime is middle/high schools. They're in damn near every show. Even when the genre doesn't make sense, they'll shoe-horn in a high school setting. And even though Slice of Life shows should in theory be a mix of all stages of life from childhood to late adulthood. I think the problem here is that's when the non-fictional Japanese population is suffering stunted development. Instead of socializing, finding themselves, and having teenager adventures, Japanese teenagers are studying, studying, and studying more. So they end up with a "hole" in their psyche they attempt to fill by watching fictional version of the teenager experience they never had.

[@politenonparticipant4859]

Your perspective on shows featuring students being to 'allow people to live out a teenage experience' is an interesting one. One I can see the merit in. The explanation I've always heard for including teenage students is to make characters most of the audience can relate to. When that audience iis made up of adults and teens, you find the lowest common denominator and that happens to be the public education system. The adults attended less recently, but it's one of the few things they've both experienced.

[@seg162]

I've heard something different: that the usage of the high school setting is meant to harken to a time where they were freer, in the first place-- rather than escapism outright, it's nostalgia. I think such is more accurate, since not only are Japanese high schools a common setting in anime/manga stories, but the protagonists will often be first or second years (because third years are usually occupied with studying for entrance exams).

[@sverker7826]

Before watching, thank you for introducing me to Pax Tube, his videos have been very insightful.

[@zaktheinquisitor5769]

I love both of you, seeing you together is like a fever dream.

[@EdiTheDon]

There is this Chinese light novel called The Lord of Mysteries. It is about a Chinese man who is supposedly transported into a dead body on an alternate earth where Victorian England mixed with Lovecraft. The main protagonist starts off weak but grows stronger. And as he does, he figures out that there is more to the world than he thinks. It is an awesome story with well developed characters, even the minor ones.

[@trevinperdue2167]

I’m very happy these two met

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

Imagine The Critical Drinker joining in the chat.

[@crusader2112]

That would be great. 👍

[@theentmarch]

he would just cuss them both out when the said that Game of Thrones being risqué was a bad thing. Lol!

[@shadowpriest2574]

@@theentmarch Neh. drinker is a civilized man. Most people afiliated with EFAP are good man.

[@chrystianaw8256]

It would be interesting but they have wildly different tastes

[@JulesFaraday22]

Critical Drinker likes The Boys, though. He even placed the show on his recommended list. It just goes to show you that the whole “anti-woke” community has a spectrum of its own.

[@lukeskywalkerthe2nd773]

Seeing these two based KZbinrs talk to each other is amazing! I hope you guys do more episodes of these! :)

[@owenzaleski7418]

Good chat guys. As someone working on starting a webcomic, I'd love to see and support artists and writers who share my values and faith.

[@ANorwegianPenguin]

I was very interested to see this exchange, especially concerning Attack on Titan. I have seen both Pax's and Pilgrim's videos on Attack on Titan and I was very sympathetic towards Pilgrim's take, while I felt Pax's perspective was a bit too sympathetic to the Jaegarists. Overall, while I enjoy Pax's content and support his work, there is a subtle and interesting difference between Pax and Pilgrim. Pax is an American, and so he sees a lot of things from an American pov. Pilgrim however, looks at all the cultures of the world and appreciates them, and this appreciation makes him also react negatively towards the self-hatred aspect of American culture, which they also export to other European cultures. At the end, when Pilgrim is talking about people from different cultures uniting behind a common cause, I think Pax really has in mind the Avengers in Endgame, which is a sort of super clisché of Hollywood. But I think Pilgrim was thinking of the same sort of unity that you see in something like Lord of the Rings. Elves and Dwarves unite in the fight towards a common evil and this unity makes it possible to triumph over past grieviances and hatred. The same we see in Attack on Titan, which I think Pilgrim was trying to communicate. Overall, this was a very interesting exchange from the two commentary channels I appereciate the most on KZbin, due to their traditionalist foundation.

[@kelvine.dominguezrivera7155]

I recommend Monster by Naoki Urasawa also Pluto is coming to netflix, Ergo Proxy, Paranoia agent, Black lagoon, Great Teacher Onisuka(GTO), Frieren: Beyond Journey End (fantasy) coming this fall, Vinland Saga is Fantastic, Stein Gate, Violet Evergarden, psycho pass, record of lodoss war and Angel Egg (movie).

[@radosawbartoszewicz7247]

Also the Fate series!

[@Captaincapafew14]

Thank you for the conversation. I have never heard of Pax before this i will check his stuff out.

[@Droppman]

I dont have the time to watch this now, but I’ll be looking forward to it all day

[@pluepaste6341]

lol wild crossover, excited to listen

[@cichy45]

I recomend watching anime movie called "Angel's Egg". It's a very interesting take on Christian religion from the perspective of japanese.

[@nicokrasnow1851]

You know the discussion about Isekai and Catholicism is interesting because isn't Narnia the prototype for Isekais? Putting aside all of that, seeing Pax and/or Pilgrim analizing Monster (or Pluto which will come out this year) would be awesome. Talking about Webtoons, I hugely reccomend "Kubera: One Last God" and "Ordeal"

[@ForlanceAbice]

Technically, that would go be Alice in Wonderland if you want to be pedantic. Or if that isn't up your alley, then the Wizard of Oz also may be a good candidate. As far s other "isekai" fiction is concerned, those are the earliest I am aware of.

[@nicokrasnow1851]

@@ForlanceAbice yeah, you're right, I didn't think about that. Alice and Oz don't have the same Christian subtext as Narnia though, but they definetly count as granpas of the Isekai genre

[@jedisonichog8705]

@@ForlanceAbice There's also the Barsoom series.

[@chrissmith9167]

I think there is a place for vulgarity in media. People shy away from uncomfortable topics and rather than address them would rather push them out of sight. Violence is too clean in media imo. People should know that it’s not like the action movies, it’s bloody and ugly. War movies especially since people should see what sending men to the frontlines is like, give them food for thought before they demand troops be sent somewhere to die. And on sex Berserk would not be the same if it didn’t show you the sex. It shows the two sides of the coin. The touching bond between man and woman who do love and respect each other. And the second worst thing you can do to a person to hurt, humiliate, and dominate them. Both have places in media and would not have the same impact if removed.

[@Chaliebravo-6789]

The most ambitious crossover

[@xenophon5354]

House of the Dragon is still a far cry from the Middle Ages. More like super imposing modernity onto a Medieval aesthetic. Doesn’t mean it can’t have a good story, but it is not medieval beyond the superficial.

[@assortmentofpillsbutneverb3756]

I like the show but cannot stand how cynical it is. Like middle ages people would not just follow depraved and dishonorable leaders due to power. The front of nobility would at least have to be there or all of these leaders would've been killed in their sleep. Maybe it's just me, but its so nakedly cynical that it does get old

[@xenophon5354]

@@assortmentofpillsbutneverb3756 Not just you. Martin and this "realistic" genre of fantasy have perhaps done more to harm the modern perspective on the Middle Ages than anyone and anything perhaps save Voltaire. Perhaps it is a realistic depiction of the Middle Ages if you remove everything good and imported a cynical, modern philosophy of relativism and power.

[@assortmentofpillsbutneverb3756]

@xenophon5354 yeah thats the most ironic part to me. 90's fantasy like GoT needs a modernist spirit which ironically makes it less fantastical and medieval

[@klavassassini]

This 100%. Its a medieval setting with a post-modernish view on the society and power dynamics.

[@crusader2112]

This is a great crossover. Speaking of Anime, I have a recommendation: Snow White with the Red Hair, it’s a really good Anime, quite wholesome. P.S. Technically, the Baratheons did have a little Targaryen blood thanks to Orys Baratheon who was Aegon’s bastard half-brother.

[@antonioporras3029]

Even closer than that Rhaelle Targaryen daughter of Aegon the 5th was Robert's Grandmother

[@StormCrow702]

And Elfen Lied. I need more people to talk about this series.

[@crusader2112]

@@antonioporras3029 👍

[@dawesome_sauce]

I like Pilgrims' thesis at the end that when you have a principle/virtue you subscribe to as a society, that's what breaks down barriers and unites different backgrounds/ethnicities/nationalities into a unified whole. Simply hating on a bad behavior (racism) is just the start; it needs to be replaced with something virtuous that everyone strives for.

[@marvalice3455]

Virtue empowers you. That's why the powers that be what everyone united behind anything except virtue. It's easy to control the weak

[@littymarquis764]

Instantly you know a podcast is gonna be interesting when it features Eren Yeager and Thomas Aquinas side by side, what a wild pairing!

[@pigboykool]

China has made a few of good anime, I would highly recommend shows like "Link Click" , "Rakshasa Street", "To Be Hero", etc

[@AndrzejGieraltCreative]

The greatest crossover in KZbin history. The world is changing.

[@21_315]

The warriors returns is absolutely amazing

[@ikengaspirit3063]

6:10 What? Clearly Vinland Saga just for a start, Demon slayer is nowhere to be included there.

[@GarfieldRex]

Pax is awesome, I discovered his channel first than Pilgrim's. Wish we have another Pilgrim Pax meeting in the future. Japanese animation sometimes have the values that built the west, e.g. Demon Slayer, but we cannot forget Japanese animation and culture are very different and visions may be distorted when betraying the Western values. Also, not all Japanese animation is good, bad things as Jobless Reincarnation exist.

[@KeiosKod]

I think your reaction to Mushoku Tensei was a pretty terrible take. The story was actually very good about how it handled the “power fantasy” part of all the isekai stuff and it actually did what isekai stories usually purport themselves as: a genuine second chance at life. The MC of MT actually grows up and lets go of all the conceit he had about how he wanted to live out his “OP isekai life”. He learns to be responsible, he cherishes his parents and appreciates the ways in which his father, despite his own share of flaws, served as a proper masculine figure (your favorite topic) in his life to hold as a standard for himself, he struggles with trying to help a family member who’s spiraling into depression from their own immense sense of inferiority using his own failures in his past life to empathize with them better and also coming to understand how hard it was for his own brother in his past life who also held that same position of trying to reconnect with a depressed sibling and feeling helpless at how to do so, and he never lets whatever power he attains get to his head and just wants to provide a peaceful home life for his family. You guys obsessed too much over him being a pedophile. I dunno if this was changed in the anime, but at least in the original story, this wasn’t portrayed as being something good at all. He was a NEET who got expelled from his home because his brother caught him masturbating to photos of his own freaking niece on the day of their parents’ funeral. He was at the absolute worst point of his life, and this carried through for a bit in his next life when he essentially started grooming his childhood friend to be dependent upon him, knowingly or not, which his new father noticed and forcibly had his son sent away for education so that the childhood friend could first grow up to be more independent. I mean, at the culmination of his growth, the MC knows not to blame his brother for being angry at him, accepts all the blame he deserves without using his own trauma as an excuse for his behavior, and only wants to convey how thankful he is to his siblings for all the tolerance and empathy they treated him with when he was presented with an opportunity to send a message back to them. Whatever faults Mushoku Tensei had, it was a great example for what isekai stories should be; a real second chance at life to acknowledge all the wrongs you did before and to grow up “properly” as a person with whatever new gifts you’re lucky enough to receive, which is a far cry from all the other isekai trash that treat their MCs as never having anything wrong with them and they just needed better conditions to be the perfect person they always were inside. You can have as much distaste as you want for the MC being a pedo, but I don’t think you gave the story a fair shake because of that.

[@PilgrimsPass]

Thank you :) I'll this perspective into account when I make my video on it.

[@erickmoczulski1582]

Well said.

[@renzmanzano4010]

​@@PilgrimsPass Don't let him fool you. The protagonist is still a grown ass man even if his in a kids body going around groping and grooming underage characters.

[@PilgrimsPass]

@@renzmanzano4010 oh I know. I still intend on ripping that show to shreds. But I'll be careful to not make people who like it think I'm implying that they support that stuff. Because I'm sure most don't.

[@SeaCow1g]

@@PilgrimsPass I think the people who like the show enjoy other aspects of it and mostly ignore the pedo stuff. For me that was definitely the case. There are some things to like here. The show has great production values for one thing; I wish Re: Zero had gotten similar treatment. Also, the story has the balls to give us an isekai protagonist with some serious shortcomings to overcome which is a breath of fresh air in the genre (again Re: Zero did it better but sigh). But yeah, I don't think it would be fair to judge the shows supporters as being pedo's themselves. Anime fans in general have gotten kind of used to ignoring loli content and enjoying the myriad of good things about the medium.

[@zachlong5427]

On the Isekai front, I think it appropriate (though this is childhood bias) if it is like Narnia or Digimon (1999); the kids aren't dead, they just get transported to another world with its own quirks and problems. Though, I think that would be splitting hairs on the definition. I get your point on reincarnation.

[@assortmentofpillsbutneverb3756]

Yeah I think its very case by case on that front. For a lot of them, understanding their original life is what helps them in the new life which matches a catholic or traditional understanding that there is deep truth in the world, human mastery, and in human relationships. Others have a more "wasted my first life but not my second" which usually is calling out a vice. The said most are neet power fantasy where being a perv neet is the super power in the new world. Definently feels like the motif matters more than it being isekai to me

[@assortmentofpillsbutneverb3756]

@Weyland_Punani ehh sort of. It has become a genre so there are common motifs that can be considered. Plus the concern is specifically if the "reincarnation" in many isekai is anti catholic Though I totally agree that isekai is wider and could be wider than people give credit

[@AhidoMikaro]

Recently watched the LotR movies with my Chinese girlfriend (born in raised in the mainland). Instantly one of her favorite stories ever.

[@PilgrimsPass]

ha! Nice! I did that with my Chinese ex-girlfriend. Born and raised in the mainland too. Sadly it wasn't one of her favourites of all time but at least she liked it more than Game of Thrones.

[@MrKage-fb2wy]

Another KZbinr for me to watch. Thanks for the upload pilgrim!

[@juanfranciscovillarroelthu6876]

Animation exist outside of Japan and America. There is great animation all over the world, you just have to look for it.

[@crusader2112]

The Soviet Union has some pretty good animation. 👍 Not a Communist.

[@sketchystruggles5361]

Isekai isn’t a real genre. It’s a plot device. It just feels like a genre because it’s so frequently combined with certain other tropes. If you take away the overpowered teenage chick magnet boy in a video game world and the story becomes very different. Natalie hunter made an interesting video about it.

[@realah3001]

Bro thinks overlord, emmience, tensura, saga of Tanya the evil, Sao, musko tensei, hamefura, and many others are bad

[@jogymogy3691]

I love modern media so much that I avoid it entirely

[@davidmason4244]

Honestly an anime which i believe shows themes about religion, history, and about humanity is probably the 1980 anime royal space force. I think they would have a blast reviewing that.

[@jake_from_state7143]

Let’s go, best cross over

[@ikengaspirit3063]

57:50 Seems that Pax has gone from thinking Isayama's caring heavily about USA culture war issues to accepting that an application of AoT's broad themes can speak on Western culture issues as well. Which is a good improvement. Anyways, bro should remember that up till the early 1900s, even in the West "race" was often used synonymously with ethnic group, it was like a less hardly defined category between what we use race for today to sub-ethnic groups and the way it is used in AoT is closer to the 1900s brit use. 43:00 The Point of Mushoku Tensei is that the guy hits an actual bottom and has to dig himself out of a pit he dug himself into. If you watch the anime you'll see his pedo bait shit reduces as the anime goes on and his sorts his shit out, that's kind of the point that he is actual scum that is being redeemed not that pedo gud. I am pretty sure this is a case of "taboo flaw", where the audience crys out for "flawed" or "not good" characters and get exactly that and go "not that", because I would really like to know what you think if we change his flaw from being mega unwholesome coomer to being serial killer of men, I am pretty sure a redemption story of the latter upon being far worse would be treated as acceptable to u and pax.

[@CLDJ227]

A pilgrim's pass podcast with other you tubers, I'm there 😎. Edit: I relate to you pilgrim, I also have thought about making a comic or a series about the ideas I've had for animated shows 😎.

[@loganshalloe5927]

I see the near future (for animation at least) as very hopeful. AoT final episode, Arcane S2, Pluto (from Naoki Urasawa) and Uzumaki are some particular ones that I have complete confidence in. All future Vinland Saga seasons too. Also Invincible S2, Beyond the Spider-verse, Kung-Fu Panda 4, Shrek 5, and the coming ATLA movies have nice potential.

[@nicokrasnow1851]

It would be interesting to see Pax or Pilgrim takes on Urasawa's Big 4 mangas (Monster, Pluto, Billy Bat and 20th Century Boys) because all of them have very interesting messages about nihilism and universalism.

[@perplexity000]

Nice! Never expecting a crossover between you two, despite the fact I sometimes mix up both your channels. I'm glad to hear more people trying their hand at creative pursuits. I'm working in the animation industry and working on producing my own graphic novel atm. Good luck with your endeavors!

[@pendragon0905]

THIS is a very good point these two bring up. There's a line storytellers from anywhere in the world must walk that straddles chaos and order. In the East, the art of storytelling seems to be veering off into chaos with a lot of storytelling ideas that are really hit and miss. In the West, the opposite is happening wherein the art of storytelling is veering off into too much order with box office and viewership statistics taking priority over creativity and originality. Looking at this phenomenon from a more proactive and subjective perspective, however, the art of storytelling can be considered as very much alive in the East, even if it isn't thriving as much as it used to, but in the West, the art of storytelling seems to be dying. That being said, there is still hope for the art of storytelling, provided that storytellers from East and West are able to find that balance between order and chaos again. Though politics may divide us, we all stand united in business, and this especially must be true for the storytelling business; after all, without the art of storytelling, the dullness of life would be unbearable.

[@izzymosley1970]

I'm about halfway through this video but I'm surprised there is no discussion about oshi no ko since it's the most popular anime coming out right now I'm also very curious to see what these two with think about it since it's a very popular piece of Japanese media that's messages about criticizing Japanese media.

[@EnriqueMaxx]

I alway question if someone's really an anime fan when they only list the most popular well-known animes when they talk about it. Attack on Titans, Death Note, Cowboy Bebop, Demon Slayer...that's the most generic line up ever. It's like their TV's got stuck on cartoon network after 9pm

[@izzymosley1970]

@@EnriqueMaxx makes you wonder if they even watch modern anime let alone know the quality of it.

[@reactiondavant-garde3391]

@@EnriqueMaxx You forgot Boku no Hero Academia, but yes you can argue that but what if they just like this type of storise? Not everyone like the more obscure ones and frankly most anime is extremly trashy currently.

[@EnriqueMaxx]

@@reactiondavant-garde3391 I'm not gate keeping anime. If that's what they like then more power to them. Just as a bit more of a hardcore fan it's like saying your really into comic books because you liked the last 5 marvel movies. There's just so much more content there that is arguably better then the mainstream stuff and they're almost never talked about is all

[@reactiondavant-garde3391]

@@EnriqueMaxx It is fair and I don't think gatekeeping is always bad either. The thing is from my perspective is that it is soo much anime that it is hard to talk about it a holistic way about them so it is possible that they want to talk about animes thet everyone know for better understanding. Mind you I don't even watch animes anymore because I love mangas/manwas more.

[@ShadowSkryba]

I don't think I would call a code which prohibits putting someone in a bad light due to the amount of pigment in their skin "great".

[@jimluebke3869]

"I Reincarnated as a Vending Machine in Another World" What could ChatGPT do with this idea?

[@luxuryidentities3092]

I knew there was a reason I kept mixing these two channels up in my head

[@matthewpacheco3323]

It’s pretty cool to see a crossover between animation KZbinrs and political KZbinrs.

[@monarchblue4280]

Just the other day I was watching pax and thought "Hmm, this guy and Pilgrims pass would probs get along swimmingly. Hope they collab one day". Lo' and behold, I was subsequently gifted with this gem.

[@Grinthex]

Thank you so much for talking about the mtg race swap in the LOTR cards. If race doesn't matter, or not a valid part of the character , then there isn't a reason to do the swap, but if race is a part of the character, you are simply making a hollow reimagination, a new character with the same name, and demeaning the race that is swapped too, by saying you need an established character for people of that race to connect with. But this also comes with more divisiveness. It implies that we can only identify with those who share our race, that in order for use to connect we need to share the same superficial physicals appearance, and to some extent culture. What would show more unity, and free us more from racism, is not to reimagine characters to be like us, but for us to learn how to identify and connect with characters who don't! To identify with the underling humanity of those who are different physically, rather than erase the differences in culture, but learning, appreciating, or even embracing the foreign culture instead.

[@The_preserver_x16]

Mushoku tensei main character is a honest to god creep. What makes his character unique is the fact that he changes and redeems himself morally. He goes through a-lot of trials and when you understand the context surrounding his degeneracy it makes sense. What we call in the west, pedo is sadly a cultural norm in the entertainment industry there. Although again, the author touches on this by bring these subject to reality and confronts it. Rudy’s character is the norm for a lot of otaku people sadly were nothing is sacred. The story is about evolving beyond that and being a decent human being. To be honest the author compares the average Japanese otaku man with western moral man. Establishing that what they are currently isn’t okay and that change is possible.

[@jackreacher7495]

Rudy is a terrible and shallow character because the book series ends with him keeping the truth about himself a secret from his three groomed wives. Re Zero does what Mushoku Tensei does, but commits to the message and - at least so far - flags constantly that there's going to be a reckoning for Subaru's greed and shallow choices.

[@davidnguyen3469]

​@@jackreacher7495Groomed in what way? He was a friend of one during a short period in early childhood, after which they grew up separately. He was tutoring one for a while before having to fight for survival as equals in their teens, before splitting up and growing into adults separately. And the last one was an adult throughout the whole story. You can critisize the character for the questionable morality of living a life from the age of a baby with the mind of an adult. But don't make up your own facts about the story to fit your arguments.

[@jackreacher7495]

@@davidnguyen3469 Grooming is grooming even if it's not a conscious effort.

[@davidnguyen3469]

@@jackreacher7495 No it's not. Grooming or brainwashing for that matter, is the intentional influence exerted on someone (in case of grooming from a position of authority) with the intention to shape their personality and/or ideology to your benefit. None of which is present in the story. The opposite is true in fact, where due to the MC's influence one of his wifes grew up to be so exceptional, she was handpicked by the the queen-to-be as a personal bodyguard and confidant. Something the MC only came to learn of once they reunited as adults.

[@jackreacher7495]

@@davidnguyen3469 If grooming is the manipulation of another's personality for one's own benefit, then lying about one's own identity for their entire life irrevocably taints every interaction they engage in in retrospect to the point where it can at least if not directly be conflated; as such It's creepy and gross, and the fact that you're acting like nothing is weird about the setup says a lot about you.

[@sammywatokohom172]

Why did no one talk about Danmachi?

[@undead_6662]

Is it good?

[@barbarabaker1457]

9:53 Agreed on the superficial end. Honestly I've even seen good stories from other cultural perspectives. Anime has many examples of this as you say, but in America there are two adaptation of the book Pollyanna. The latter was a musical called Polly and that one got a sequel. No only does it cover a new perspective while respecting the themes, but it covers race in ways I found far more compelling than modern attempts. Even then I would absolutely love to watch interesting new stories as we've pretty much rehashed to death and there's plenty in other cultures. Either way, Hollywood doesn't get my books. No freaking way. If I have to George Lucas those movies, it's better than hearing a modern version of the first and last Hollywood meeting in The Majestic on steroids.

[@realah3001]

Isekai haters when they learn about the genre of fantasy

[@1lobster]

I recommend Vinland saga

[@ignacywinski192]

If you are looking for anime with more mature storytelling the mecha genere is propably the best. It has some crap, like all anime generes, but the orignal Gundam and its sequels is one of the best stories about war in the medium.

[@rottenmeat5934]

Maturity is knowing Re:Zero has a much worse moral content than Jobless Reincarnation.

[@drascalicus5187]

Please enlighten a poor soul.

[@seg162]

blud is still waiting

[@ExpertContrarian]

”maturity”

[@FallingUpwards-l8y]

How?

[@JulesFaraday22]

Ayo, Pilgrim. You mentioned somewhere that your video wasn’t gonna get monetized. Not to worry, I just saw an ad after I opened your vid on my phone.

[@juanfranciscovillarroelthu6876]

There have being really good western animations in the last few years, they just do not usually come out of the big studios.

[@magisterdamask9015]

The Warrior Returns had a fantastic opening. Some of the Korean webtoons are pretty interesting, others are basically hentai.

[@jimluebke3869]

Note how Maleficent turns goes from fake skybeam to dragon.

[@anotherbacklog]

The golden age of anime has passed... like the third time already. Creators inspired by the first golden age of Gundam and Yamato sparked the second golden age of Evangelion, which then inspired the third golden age of Madoka Magica. Tho I personally take Redline (2009 anime movie) as the pinnacle of the third golden age. Lets hope the next generation of creator will bring us the next golden age. From the 2020s, The cinephile (2021 anime movie) is worth checking out. It’s like a love letter to struggling creators. Personal preferences aside, hentai games featured some of the most talented creators. Maeda Jun, Nasu Kinoko, Urobuchi Gen, Tanaka Romeo all started off writing hentai games. Saito Masatsugu was also a hentai manga artist before working for Nintendo in Xenoblade Chronicles 2. Hentai games were one of the least regulated media, allowing creator’s imagination to run wild and take on controversial topics. You may find some hidden gems where you least want to look.

[@aGORILLA-g7l]

I disagree that modern feminism is hostile to depictions of sexuality. Modern feminism seeks to liberate female sexuality, not destroy it. Modern feminism is hostile to traditional femininity, and so any depiction of female characters in this way are viewed as bad. Sexuality is not an issue for modern feminism, femininity is. Take lesbian relationships, for example. Modern feminism would not have a problem with gratuitous depictions of sex so long as it appealed to their sensibilities. I think Pilgrims' Pass is trying to make the point that feminism may have an unintended consequence of limiting sexuality. I would not credit modern feminism with that, however, because I do not think that reducing sexuality was the intention of many feminists. They simply wish to give females the position of authority on HOW sexuality can be depicted, because they believe that male sexuality victimizes women.

[@username46656]

Can you guys make a list of recommended anime, and perhaps other types of media?

[@TheTrueHolyDarkness]

11:05 - "Boomer Daddy Issues" perfectly captures what must be going on with the race swapping insecurity. We younger generations probably just don't get it and never will. It's their turn to be the elderly and what they're writing is probably some kind of vent against the ghosts of their parents I guess because it's certainly coming from a position that's stuck in a past I certainly can't recall. Thanks for putting it that way.

[@wolfiewoo3371]

The boys has bad story telling too. The "commentary" is all surface level.

[@junebug4004]

This was a great first episode of the podcast.

[@the4universes207]

two kings toegether? No way.

[@stanisawzokiewski3308]

6:00 Summertime render is up to the standard

[@cimmerian_savage9736]

Robert e Howard's historical fiction and Conan storys

[@connor1734]

I'm reading it while listening to this, they really are great stories! Just started gods in the north!

[@afonsodealbuquerque1879]

Pax has some shit takes, but it's a decent channel

[@afonsodealbuquerque1879]

@RW he's videos on Putin and on Atun shei were filled with terrible arguments

[@ericdraccip]

@RW his Wikipedia video had a simple concept and even then he had a garbage take.

[@ericdraccip]

@RW yeah that one

[@ericdraccip]

@RW There are multiple problems with the video, but the most easy thing to note is the video is title, "How Wikipedia Lies To You". however the video never really points to where wikipedia actually lies to anyone, rather it simply says that its given up on its neutral policy, to note the video actually doesnt really cover whats said in their policies. some of the other larger issues is it seems like he wanted to grasp onto a source condemming wiki without considering what they actually say and if theyre are good sources. like larry sanger really doesnt matter to wikipedia as he left the project in 2002, so about two decades ago. the other "Differential rates of disciplinary action reveals evidence of political bias in Wikipedia's arbitration enforcement" this has so many red flags on it, for starters this paper isn''t a controversial subject, yet the two authors chose not to put their names on it.

[@ericdraccip]

@RW I don't think most people know about npov policy, when people hear wiki, they think anyone can edit that. So neutral is probably not the forefront thought when wikipedia pops up, but if we're talking about npov policy your main focus should be what they talk about in their policy.

[@patty7016]

Pax tube is like a slightly angrier and slightly racist pilgrims pass, pretty entertaining with good points often. But sometimes he says something I just need to pass over

[@johnmanole4779]

What good points? The dude doesn't know vasic history and is making shit up

[@john80944]

The problem as I see it, is the same one as all the problems in history: we don't have enough literacy. Even most people in developed areas can read and write now, it doesn't mean people will actually do those things. Many bad media problems will solve themselves solely by increase the quantity AND quality of media consumption. AOT increased its quality purely by the author studied GOT's early seasons. You really need to study hard to achieve the industry standard content. You don't have to be as good as CSM's creator Fujimoto, he's insanely good at his job, but you can't be as lazy as some woke artists. Degeneracy isn't what concerns me. We have some important degenerate literatures like Story of the Eye, or cruel games like Fear and Hunger: degeneracy is just one part of storytelling mechanisms. I think, your conversation kind of shown that you can add more media consumption too. Art is already dead and re-emerged as a way of doing philosophy. If you think degeneracy is only degeneracy, then I will seriously doubt that you haven't consume enough media. The raping scene in GOT have some artistic exploration value, but it seems like they simply didn't know how to make good sex scenes anymore: you should watch Japanese or Korean erotic genre classics like Wet Woman in the Wind, then you will understand that "porn" absolutely can have artistic value too. Edit: some grammar check.

[@spacejunk2186]

I dislike Isakai that are just pure escape fantasy. I like it much more when the act of being isekai'd is more than a mere excuse to get a fish-out-of-water protagonist. Like, give it a point in the story.

[@igorkosek2094]

I think you should put a disclaimer for spoilers in Aot

[@MihaSheva]

Two oldies spoke that early grass was more green, and media were better, didn't they?

[@jlokyo180]

A few points. 1) The boys is not only a parody, it's an example of what happens when superheroes don't actually care about the layperson and taken in context it's an exceptionally well realised show. 2) Moshuko Tensei is extremely bland. The first 6 episodes or so were fantastic and set up a sense of wonder and pathos that the following 2 seasons did little to build on and the end result was a generic everyman isekai with skin deep appeal. 3) None of the MESSAGE stuff is accidental. Blackwashing etc isn't just about appealing to broader audiences, it's a direct attack on white people and on white men in particular. You only have to look at the number of white-skinned heroes who have been torn down or 'reimagined' as pathetic, insecure and incompetent in recent media (Luke Skywalker, Indiana Jones etc) or race swapped for evidence of this. 4) The US decency/censorship laws being watered down is so that people and corporations can get wider society to accept and normalise the idea of 'youth attracted persons' (aka paedos). This is already happening and is not a coincidence. 5) The dumbing down and dese.xualisation of female heroes is also deliberate. Can't have women who are attractive to the 'male gaze' can we? Nor can we have female characters who show any kind of flaw, or experience a personal arc, or are imperfect in any way shape or form because that would reflect poorly on the writing teams, who lack any sort of life experience or personal credibility and think that writing a good female character amounts to 'insert my idealised self, as I would be in this world'. This is how we get dumpster fire level writing like She Hulk or Velma.

[@kmr_tl4509]

07:30 Japanese stuff is really bottom-up and grassroots. A lot of popular anime/manga came from solo artists getting chosen by publishing companies and retaining a lot of creative control with their art (especially when it's an adaptation). Comiket is basically a celebration of the country's independent artist scene.

[@silver057]

I love the Ressurection Warrior.

[@SeaCow1g]

Excellent podcast. So.....when are we getting a Re: Zero video? Hahahaha On a serious note. I think the appeal behind Mushoku Tensei lies in large part due to its production values; incredible animation, music, sound design, voice acting etc. The sad part is that the studio behind it consists largely of ex-employees of White Fox who worked on the first season of Re: Zero. That realization makes me kinda sad because a truly superior work of fiction is getting worse production values (there was a noticeable slump of quality for Re: Zero in season 2) as a result. Since you are someone that loves to analyze stories and derive lessons from it for our own lives, I'm curious about what you think about Re: Zero's seemingly deliberate criticism of books as a guide for living ones life. Let me explain (spoiler warning): In both the 1st and 2nd season the big baddies behind everything are always following the instruction of a book to do the evil things they are doing. They are convinced that what they are doing (per the instruction of their respective books) is necessary and ultimately for the better but to the audience it is clearly that their blind devotion to the words in the texts they follow are leading them down a terrible path. Subaru as well can be considered his own worst enemy alot of the time and his biggest fault is following the lessons taught to him through all the light novels he read back on earth. This is ironic since Re: Zero is a light novel itself that tries to teach life lessons. What do you think of this?

[@GankBaronGuys]

Boy, I hope you mean re zero is a superior work of fiction in general and not specifically superior to jobless. Even re zero's author says jobless is the better work.

[@SeaCow1g]

Who cares what the author of Re: Zero thinks? It’s called being humble. Tastes are subjective but I’ve had much more interesting intellectual discussions around Re: Zero than I’ve had about Mushoku Tensei so I consider Re: Zero to be much better. Mushoku Tensei has great world building, good characters, interesting plot, but then it does a lot of stuff I find very distasteful. The pedo grooming is obviously mentioned here, but even overlooking that we get to look forward to Rudy getting a harem and marrying all 3 of his waifu’s in succession. What a masterpiece lmao. Re: Zero isn’t over yet so it may also s&@$ the bed but at this moment it is still the superior work of fiction.

[@dawall3732]

Didn’t Rudieus die a virgin? I thought the story was about him over coming his inner sinner?

[@matthewlarson169]

Might I recommend "Chainsaw Man" The story is so compelling and the story does not care about appeasing any political agendas. Absolutely loved it. Might be biased, but I truly believe it is a masterpiece that most people should watch

[@cyberpunkfalangist2899]

the anime kind of sucked most stories are better told through their original format

[@thanquolrattenherz9665]

this comment contains spoiler on moshuko tensei. to be fair that you dont like moshuko tensei kinda surprises me since it is a story about a young man who started as a degenerate in many forms of the word and ended up as a relative respectable man. its a story about second chances and it kinda feelt sad that we never know if the letter he wrote for his family managed to go back to japan through a character he later meets and helps to go back to japan. i only know the novel but i dont think it is that different from the anime.

[@jamalisujang2712]

The thing about rudy is that he is given a better hand when reincarnated. 😂😂😂

[@kylerdaconquer0078]

pax tube is so uneducated and unprofesional

[@AllyRoseGarden]

He's just lucky rich white dude

[@notime2583]

wait a minute you are brazilian, i would not expect a br brother talking about this themes.

[@soldat88hun]

holy fucking shit that first opinion on anime

[@blackmercury48]

27:03 I agree. Thats why games like baldurs gate suffer from the npc's being playersexual. I'd rather be able to forge bonds or friendships with characters than be treated to pixel sex.

[@evanstevenson6722]

I'd recommend white snake it's the most solid of the light chaser movies and yang jiang

[@chrystianaw8256]

Love you Pilgrim❤

[@patty7016]

Also could you guys maybe start a Spotify podcast, long form KZbin murders my battery.

[@junebug4004]

I'm here as soon as i can be here.

[@thattimestampguy]

0:00- 4:30 They both like film and animation. It prepared them to make the content they do now. 4:53 Western Animation & Anime is getting worse. Anime's Golden Age might be Over. 6:34 Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Shampoo, 7:45 Entertainment is too focused on "Checklists" 10:55 Hollywood Anti-Whiteness. 11:55 Lord of The Rings was a European-Style Movie. Universal Archetype: The Good King. 14:00 TV is worse than the movies "The Voice" and "Euphoria" 15:49 Good Tv Show _The House of The Dragon_

[@Sleepingcrusader]

The Crossover is real.

[@rotmistrzjanm8776]

42:35 You are so, so, soooooo wrong. It's one of the best piece of media released in last decade. And there are ton of snowflackes that complain about it. And in my opinion it's extremly christian in a sense.

[@CovocNexus]

Yeah, it's strange. I couldn't watch any anime this season.

[@loganshalloe5927]

Vinland Saga S2 has been excellent, though I suppose it was a winter season anime

[@CovocNexus]

@@loganshalloe5927 Ah really? I should watch it. I just never liked depressing stuff so I avoided it.

[@monarchblue4280]

Hell's Paradise, Vinland Saga and Oshi no ko have been pretty good this season.

[@Worldsbestchocolate]

Now all you need to do is meet third paradigm