What it Takes to Become an "A List" Copywriter

[@CopyThat]

You can now listen to this interview on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts: open.spotify.com/episode/3NDVvOkMyPqciH6ue95lQD?si=9b04048bf5844660

[@mattcoursecareers]

Hey Copy That! - We sent you an email about a paid partnership. Let me know what you think.

[@MarcelArtsCW]

Wonderful interview. She inspired me and I felt instantly connected to her. Also, as much as I love Seans stupid jokes, I enjoyed seeing him genuine and serious for an entire interview :D

[@realheckertrustmebro]

Hey, They are NOT STUPID

[@rogerroger6864]

This channel deserves really more and more followers from the value they give for absolutely and literally for free.

[@bca-2257]

What a special lady. Very inspiring character and attitude to copywriting

[@realheckertrustmebro]

Hey Sean, I don't even know if you'll read it or not, but this was one of the best interviews you did. I was stuck on writing a landing page and was procrastinating on it for a long time. I'd go out, read something, research more, make a ton of spit drafts but wouldn't actually finalize some words on the doc. It was only after this interview was that I found the real reason behind me not being able to write was that I didn't think I could be more punchy, or I just didn't knew if it was going to work, and I was trying to come up with the best hooks and angles all this time when what I actually needed to write was not the best copy, but the one that resonated with my client avatar. I needed to worry about resonating with my client avatar more than getting respect in my copywriting world for what I wrote. I don't need the best hooks, and the most value exchange, I want to exchange what my client avatar would value the most, which most of the time is not the punchy get this get that shit. Good copywriters know what their clients want. Great copywriters know 'how' do they want it. And it's often not by selling them with the most punchiest headlines, sometimes it is just - just understanding them, and communicating that you understand them. I think more people should use 'PUS' than 'PAS' "Pain - Understand - Solution" than "Pain - Agitate - Solution" This interview was such a breakthrough for me. It was like when I first started writing copy and had an overwhelming feeling that there was something missing from what I was learning about copywriting, and my first breakthrough came from Dan Kennedy's Trust Based Marketing. The thing I missed was communicating trust in the copy. The second breakthrough was THIS interview, the second thing my copy was missing was understanding HOW to communicate. Would throwing shit at you to sell a solution make you trust me? well I guess not. I love the part when Pauline said that most copywriters forget to pat their customer's back while agitating their pains. Now that I have had these breakthroughs I'll restructure my hierarchy of important pieces required to create a positive sale: Trust > Understanding > Agitation (Trust is the most important, Understanding can create trust, agitation can create understanding. (if done right) )

[@CopyThat]

You're amazing and I am so delighted that you were able to walk away from this interview with everything you described. I love your PUS framework idea, but as far as acronyms go it... might need some workshopping.

[@realheckertrustmebro]

@@CopyThathaha you're right sean! but we do use 'DIC' right. When your copy can need 'DIC', it also needs 'PUS' to reproduce a sale. Ifykyk -ofc he knows, he has kids-

[@khbro5834]

Didn't expect the podcast would be so inspiring. Her messages resonate a lot with me personally. Really love this!

[@kylemacinnes9867]

I wish I listened to this sooner. It's definitely an interview I know I will go back to multiple times everything Pauline said was pure gold. Also Sean you are a fantastic interviewer thank you for setting these incredible conversations up.

[@avinashsingh_29]

Pauline is awesome! She always delivers amazing lessons! But you too asked great questions. Loved the talk!!🥂🥂

[@wreday720]

You can just tell by the way she talks and carries herself she's lived such a rich life, Pauline is a goddamn inspiration, wishing her good fortune in all she does in the future 🙌

[@Kryptiik]

I love this interview. The part about morality really struck me. No regrets doing something that is good for everyone involved. As Wallace D. Wattles said: More life to all, less to none.

[@parisnielsen9276]

She has an awesome and calming voice. I could probably listen to her talk for hours ❤ great interview, thank you.

[@YAH_Ana]

This was the most amazing and inspiring interview. Tears of joy. Will listen to this again.

[@sufyansheikh5103]

Loved every bit of this interview ❤

[@droiduser0202]

Great interview! Pauline always comes across as a genuine, kind-hearted person.

[@jonathanjones2270]

Thank you for this excellent interview. Learning so much from Pauline

[@richoka]

Incredible interview. Absolutely incredible!

[@seanvanzant]

Incredible interview! Pauline is a great person and a great copywriter!

[@nidhijhawer756]

Here is what happened when I did the opposite of what Pauline says in this podcast (personal experience): I worked for an agency for three months right out of college. I was a full time copywriter there and they had zero morals. I was usually asked to exaggerate claims, leave out specific details so that readers would not notice it and constantly treated like dirt by the clients. Worse part was, this agency is the top 5 in my country (India). Here is what actually happens when you let that sh!t slide and don't stand up for yourself: -I gained weight because I was eating away at my guilt from lying. -I developed migraines from the constant pressure to write what the client likes, not what sells. -I was told I am nothing but a junior writer and easily replaceable. -I stopped wanting to wake up the next morning because it meant going through the above all over again. - The worst part: I stopped writing for that entire year. I am relieved to see Pauline stand up for herself, and she inspired me through out this podcast to do the same for myself. Operate out of self-love and cooperation everyone. Thank you Pauline and CopyThat.

[@thedlkr]

So much value 😊

[@steezmunky]

Ah I remembered Pauline from Parris's live lessons that I joined ((the ones for Taki) - too bad those got taken down). She's come so far (and well deservedly so)

[@niranjanp65]

10 mins in, woow! super episode with Pauline 👍👍 (idk about the thumbnail tho, I had to look twice to catch that its from copythat, and not diaryofCEO. But surely test this new one)

[@Sadiyaaaaa]

was the intro gpt generated? hahahaha Seriously happy to see a thriving female copywriting leader

[@CopyThat]

The intro was human generated by our amazingly talented (smart funny and humble) editor and it nearly broke my computer, lol. That's the last time I'm making my own film grain filter... I'll just download one for next time -Noah

[@emtionaldamage112]

happy women's day. The video editing game has literally changed the entire experience

[@SummerSaysSo]

Awesome. So much to think about.

[@cairobetta]

full of knowledge! wow thanks for this

[@ildikoholicza2661]

I like the attitude..I prove you wrong ! Women can do well

[@gurt461]

57:35 would a client opting for non compliant copy despite being aware of a compliant alternative be totally responsible for negative outcomes? or does it still fall to the copywriter having provided the non compliant copy in the first place

[@CopyThat]

She was talking about compliance with network terms--so like Facebook's rules--as opposed to legal compliance. But every business handles liability differently, based on contracts and type of copy. There have definitely been situations where a copywriter ran into a lot of trouble for what they wrote.

[@riqoxhale]

I use astrology to include more emotions into my copy.

[@2548C-p2e]

11:34

[@luca25345]

did you get this thumbnail style from The Diary Of A CEO?

[@CopyThat]

Yep. And Colin and Samir. And the 30 other channels using this format.

[@luca25345]

@@CopyThat haha love it

[@RobbieMeadows-oz4cx]

That Tyson 4D makes me so angry. He is putting out courses and telling people to go on insta and look for clients. Some of the replies he receives, just wow. He is everything that is wrong with copywriting. Very inexperienced. So, you have his following taking a very basic copywriting KZbin course, and they are spamming the hell out of everyone. It shows just how bad a copywriter Tyson 4D or whatever his name is. He's a total !diot

[@studiovoxx3051]

Not just him but other creators as well. Copywriting as a name is getting a bad reputation because of it. And the only way to stand out in the sea of "copywriters" is to ACTUALLY provide the value necessary to the client. Not only that but also understand the client first before you outreach them.

[@RobbieMeadows-oz4cx]

@@studiovoxx3051 Absolutely. People are responding to Tyson " When will l start making 10 k a month bro " He is so cringe. He did join Andrew Tate copywriting school. " Nuff said " ( 👈 Tyson speaks 🤣🫣)

[@GentleSpace07]

Agreed! But unfortunately, most newbies have helped him grow and he comes first whenever a newer newbie searches for copywriting and it leads them to a totally bad path.

[@RobbieMeadows-oz4cx]

@GentleSpace07 It's not good. I know a marketer who I used to really respect. He got friendly with a sleazy marketing goof , and he now spams business owners sending out one million spam messages a day. Yes, one million. He doesn't care about marketing, is all about profit, and has no respect . A total scum bag ..No ethics

[@GentleSpace07]

@@RobbieMeadows-oz4cx LOL, 1 million daily inbox? That's crazy and stupid at the same time.

[@JackAtkins-xz5wi]

I'm needed in Beijing again.