What Killed Michael Brown? | Glenn Loury & John McWhorter [The Glenn Show]

[@Salty_Boogers]

Loury & McWhorter 2024!!

[@4TIMESAYEAR]

Amen - been so blessed by them and many more. I have three of Shelby Steele's books. Thomas Sowell, Taleeb Starkes. Candace Owens.

[@randomlady6899]

I like them. I wouldn’t wish political office on anyone I like.

[@4TIMESAYEAR]

@@randomlady6899 I understand - I wouldn't either - but one has to admit they'd make great candidates!

[@rhondathorpe1106]

@Mitch Lang true...Not to speak for John but I don't think he( as I believe most of Dems) is not in any way shape or form excited about Mr. Biden.

[@ibanezdudeck]

@@randomlady6899 unfortunately that's how we end up with the terrible candidates and lifelong politicians. When we stigmatize running for office and don't encourage people to sacrifice to help make change, we end up with exactly the politicians we deserve- power hungry, egotistic, wealthy elites.

[@Mbsfpvchannel]

I'm a 51-year old attorney. I try to be thoughtful and empathetic. I honestly have no idea why people think that Trump is a racist. I see him as the opposite.

[@BriannadaSilva]

I'm a simple gal. I see "Glenn Loury" and "John McWhorter", and I click.

Youre also a very unoriginal girl

[@drumchanneltunnel5191]

@ 🤧

[@viggolito]

@ What a weird urge you have to comment like that lol.

[@viggolito]

They sure have interesting thoughts!

[@nancy6487]

Here’s a 72 yo woman, naturalized citizen from Sudan who would highly support your agenda!! Really enjoy you two gentlemen!

[@MrJimMajor]

The one thing that has always struck me about both the unfortunate Michael Brown and the George Floyd incidents is that I see no evidence indicating that race was a factor in the actions of the police. I have said that to friends and I have received looks as though I have two heads. Of course no one has ever explained why my observations are wrong.

[@jimmajor2275]

If every interaction that goes bad between blacks and whites is labeled as racism, we are approaching a dangerous fork in the road.

[@williammorrison6311]

@@jimmajor2275 Make a comment on social media questioning the BLM narrative and see what happens. Sadly, there are a lot of stupid people who do label all such interactions as racism.

[@aarondixon7]

im curious..what would a police shooting motivated by race look like?

[@MrJimMajor]

@@aarondixon7 A police shooting motivated by race might involve racial slurs or a completely unwarranted shooting. Data might help in that there would be significant more blacks shot then whites per capita when criminal activities (not a routine traffic stop) are the motive for the interaction. This is similar to a black person robbing a white person in that despite what some might say, there is no reason to believe that race would be a factor. We are finished as a society if we assume race to be a factor in all multiracial encounters that have a negative outcome.

[@theyredistortingyourrhthym4381]

another psyop g floyd = psy op - 0 death fiance had 2 tearless tv interviews within 3 days floyd is seated in cop car back seat for 5 seconds YET 4 cops wait 12mins (1 with hands in pocket) for paramedics Less are fooled by the day Australia SEES

[@st89]

John and Glenn should read Thomas Sowell's latest book on charter schools and have a discussion about that

[@AN-jw2oe]

YES-this!

[@samij6071]

@Kyle Rasku a lot of it has to do with their admissions where they use a lot of tactics to weed out students that would bring down their scores which is something our standard public schools are unable to do.

[@justinmathis8078]

@@samij6071 nope charters can’t be selective they are public

[@joangordoneieio]

The movie is NOT available on Amazon Prime. Im in New Mexico. "This video is currently unavailable to watch in your location"

[@carlscott4180]

Amazon Vid had better watch it. American citizens will not tolerate this. We are already going to demand we Amazon gets broken up, but if this kind of thing continues, we are going to demand smithereens. CS

[@adam-k]

@@carlscott4180 Nobody cares. Amazon pays your politicians. Your opinion doesn't matter.

[@PIDtoolbox]

I can also confirm that it’s NOT available on Amazon prime Canada

[@cameronlockard5935]

Same: Virginia

[@nickgoesvestmode]

Not available for me either

[@tysparks598]

Guys, you are my 2 favorite "blogging heads", your conversations are one of three events I wouldn't miss online. i appreciate you both.

[@tteot1wph]

Shooting people in the legs is a bad idea for two reasons: 1. It is incredibly difficult to hit such a small target, and if you miss the bullet will ricochet off the street into someone’s house 2. Shooting for the legs is seen as lethal force because you can hit the femoral artery and the person can bleed out A much safer way to subdue unarmed suspects would be to get behind them and choke them out. Police should have at least a rudimentary knowledge of BJJ

[@TopShelfTheology]

Japanese cops are required to earn up to a certain belt in judo to get their badges. :bulb:

[@tteot1wph]

@@TopShelfTheology In my city they are also required to have some BJJ experience

[@daraharvey4519]

16:25 - anyone who claims they won’t work with the president until the president is someone they like is not really serious about solving any problems they complain about. If blacks are truly in a desperate situation, they can’t wait till the next president is sworn in.

[@meghanryan6707]

Officers are not taught to shoot to kill, please. But yes center of mass to stop the individual. I wonder how many who say this would be capable of shooting a moving leg without shooting an innocent bystander?

[@noshow22]

What has always been astonishing to me in the Michael Brown case and others is how the mass media can get a large swathe of the population to believe things that are brazen and bold lies. Things that can easily be verified with about a minute of research.

[@chasekanipe]

Currently the Steele film is unavailable on Amazon in the US

[@4TIMESAYEAR]

And that's really sad. More censorship - and the film is desperately needed.

[@jonathanbetts1169]

Can confirm as well, not on Prime.

[@jonathanbetts1169]

@@katydid1955 Thanks

[@zenobardot]

Interesting that they will sell you a copy of Mein Kampf, or the Turner Diaries, but not Shelby Steele's film. Seems like if you were going to be censoring content, those might be more obvious candidates, given the history of their importance to violent groups.

[@carlscott4180]

@@zenobardot Just checked. You can buy it from them. If and only if you enter in the exact title. Not part of their stream-for-free package. I would advise purchasing from someone else. CS

[@steveb319]

McWhorter has obviously never fired a handgun.

[@johnnmhamel]

I am 100% supportive of Black empowerment but have zero White guilt.

[@ibanezdudeck]

When is Glenn going to get Shelby Steele on? I'd love to hear Steele discuss his movie with Glenn and answer those questions of why the great society programs failed.

[@markstephens2709]

Such a bizarre opinion to think there’s not enough contraception available in poor communities. Just not true. Birth control pills are basically free, and condoms are everywhere. You can lead a man to rubbers but you can’t make him wear one.

[@thomasc9036]

@glennloury As a conservative republican, I watch your show to get different perspectives because I don't want to be misled by hearing from conservative sides only. I don't agree on some, but it has helped me tremendously to approach critical issues from different perspectives. Have you done some honest survey on gender, racial, age, political affiliation, etc. who watch your show?

[@theragingmoderate7797]

“Cigarillos whatever those are” 🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂 I’m dying

[@mellowtron214]

*ITS A BLUNT JOHN, FOR SMOKING SOME DANK NUGS!* You’d think a man as intelligent as John could discern that the word CIGAR is in the word Cigarillo. And assume that it’s some kinda smokeable tobacco thing.

[@playnejayne5550]

As a linguist, John could easily figure out what they are.

[@tlockerk]

I'm a 60 year old White lady and know that! Maybe its a class/neighborhood thing as much as a race thing?

[@Venezolano410]

In Spanish, "cigarillos" are cigarettes.

[@dancewomyn1]

Appreciate having your conversations available. I may not agree with everything, but it's good to hear another point of view outside of the main narrative! Thank you

[@craigsmith1443]

I just checked on Amazon Prime: 'What Killed Michael Brown' can be purchased but not streamed.

[@nintendsoad]

I could listen to you two gentlemen for days. Thank you for the amazing conversations during a time when rational and critical thinking appears to be at an all-time low

[@adaku75]

The topic that I wish we talked about more is there is a need for a mindset change. If we are honest with ourselves, we know most black people hate themselves and hate each other. Most feel entitled because of what we have experienced in this country so we go into the world with a chip on our shoulder and are conditioned to believe that white folks are the enemy. Anybody who has ever tried to teach in the inner city or have been in some type of social service field knows we have a major problem with the way we think of ourselves. And with that said, it doesn't make a difference if a child goes to a charter school or public school if they don't value themselves or education. They will continue to focus on police shootings when black men kill each other as if they are in a war zone on the street in every inner city. We must talk about the root of the problems in order to make real change. But everything I said is politically incorrect so I don't see the conversation being had anytime soon.

[@lisamontez9401]

Don't you think that the answer is more black fathers? I heard something very interesting about what single motherhood does to daughters. I think it came from Stefan Molyneux. The absence of a father has the effect of a biological message that the men are off at war (which, historically, is what male absence meant). This had the result of your brain telling your body that you need to procreate fast or will never get the chance to. I suppose it does the same to sons. Also, I think that the fact of a father leaving his children tells those children that they are not worth sticking around for. And what a terrible thing to do to a child, and is probably where that self-hatred comes from. (I had never heard that (your second sentence) before and really, really hope that you're wrong. Because that is very sad. But it does make all this rioting that's going on make more sense.)

[@AN-jw2oe]

Thanks for sharing. Am curious what you think about this one black conservative’s opinion about reasons why black Americans struggle to build wealth: Ice Cube Sets Record Straight On Trump W/ CNN's Chris Cuomo... "Black People Have No Capital”... kzbin.info/www/bejne/qqjJn2iihKyei5Y

[@tessjones3566]

The film which we purchased this evening on Vimeo did an excellent job of explaining all of this. I'm hoping that there are enough complaints that Amazon reconsiders

[@Saddamuel]

I'm not American and I'm not black. This stuff is terrible. It doesn't need to be this way.

[@plaidpaisley5918]

@@Saddamuel can you please expound? Thanks.

[@hejla4524]

43:18 Why did Brown decide to fight an armed cop? Sociology aside, he was pumped up with THC. Floyd and Martin were also under the influence of illegal drugs. Their widespread use from a shockingly early age within these communities is surely an important factor in the outcomes of police interactions not to mention educational and workplace achievement.

[@codycushman2738]

Hey guys. Love the show. John, you should do a field trip to a pistol range some time. You’ll quickly discover that it is non-trivial to shoot accurately with a hand gun, even at a stationary target when you are in non-life-threatening situation. This is one of many reasons police shoot for the torso.

[@davepenn9181]

Correct. Shooting a gun out of someone's hand, shooting them in the legs, etc. only work in Hollywood.

[@JesseFSegovia]

I absolutely love these discussion and I try to watch all of them. Just about everything you two say resonates loudly with me, but why the disrespect for President Trump? We can excuse Rev. Al Sharpton's behavior and say nice things like he believes what he's saying, but we can't even extend that same weak courtesy to the president?

[@alinar8936]

White Guilt by Shelby Steele is a must-read!

[@brandanb9735]

@22:28 This is not a dig on Glenn or John, merely an observation. Why is it that only public policy positions associated with the right are constantly saddled with the weight of history? Every political position to the right of Bernie is assailed with the burdens of the past, but the same isn't the case with the left. Abortion, gun control, the minimum wage, and unionization (to name a few) all have some of their roots in WASP progressives trying to exert social control over Catholics, Jews, recent immigrants, and Blacks. Yet modern progressives are not hit over the heads with the sins of their forbearers who proposed these positions for the purpose of forced assimilation and political marginalization. The double standard in intelligentsia is strong.

[@bennyboyle1134]

I could compliment the two of you as individual intellectuals endlessly, but as a pair, the method of your discourse reaches back to our most ancient examples of such public reasoning - John's apology for misremembering his colleague's work demonstrates the height of this method. I hope that you move to broader vistas so that more people can gain the great benefit of your thoughts and this method in practice. Thank you gentlemen.

[@Torymorgan9]

Is it on Prime? I just checked and don't see it. I see the poster, but not the video. Bought it Friday and watched it already because Amazon blocked it. It's excellent and like Glenn says, "beautifully made!!" Definitely worth it to purchase, if Amazon doesn't stream it.

[@MVandemore]

I'm not seeing any mention of the documentary on Amazon.

[@nickp3961]

www.republicworld.com/entertainment-news/hollywood-news/what-killed-michael-brown-rejected-by-amazon-director-responds.html

[@benkakanfo1577]

I just checked. Documentary isn't on Amazon.

[@mspoints4fre123]

Don't see it either.

[@oldschoolsaint]

Did same thing. Bought it off the whatkilledmichaelbrown.com website. 20 bucks well spent. Also wrote to amazon and cancelled by Prime subscription. This is pure soviet style censorship.

[@jeanbabtisteclamence3018]

Unfortunately this murder mystery dinner was quite simple, as Mike Brown, essentially, killed himself.

[@benkeith2077]

I love John, but he shouldn’t be overly sure that Trump will lose.

[@zackerythomas3675]

True.

[@KAZVorpal]

@ModestMagician I'm not a Trump supporter. But if Biden wins, it'll be a stolen election, via the intentional state mismanagement of the SARS-CoV-2 response, Democratic cities promoting rioting, and the insanity of the inherently invalid long-term, remote voting. I wonder how many Democratic postal workers are simply destroying some significant proportion of the (clearly identifiable in their envelopes) ballots they gather in heavily Republican areas.

[@MC-wh3xm]

@@KAZVorpal looks like you were completely right

[@KAZVorpal]

@@MC-wh3xm Yeah, I'm sad to have been so spot-on, in this case.

[@Frogwalloper]

Had a choice at 1 am when I saw this was up - either sleep or tune in... and now it's 2 am...

[@posieglom3215]

Me too, Noticed at 5:30AM and obviously could not allow myself that extra bit of sleep. Immediately hit "play."

[@Phillyprnc]

Shoot them in the shins? What an ignorant suggestion. I like John a lot but that was unimaginably uninformed and stupid.

[@chuckmadden2251]

The man sipping wine from a glass while holding his pinky finger high calls The President "a jackass". It's people like him that make a classical liberal like me pull for Trump just to see the self-righteous get their comeupins.

[@anasbell213]

There's a counterpoint to long lasting contraceptives: there is both a physiological harm of hormonal treatment and mental harm of multiple partners regardless of whether there is the consequence of unexpected pregnancy.

[@buybuydandavis]

Automation was only part of what changed the game. It was US *policy* for welfare, immigration, and trade that held and pushed down the working class, the working poor, and the poor. Immigration drives down wages and increased housing costs. "Free" trade drove down wages and job security. Welfare policies imposed effective marginal tax rates often exceeding 100%. Also, it was also women's liberation. It was a massive expansion of the work force, also driving down wages.

[@wouldbegood]

Kanye is an underappreciated genius. It's hard I can relate...

[@patharvard]

Just now, I searched for ‘What Killed Michael Brown.’ I could not find it on Amazon.

[@facE055]

I really love mcwhorter and i know they don't often get into strictly political stuff here but after all of these conversations (and ive watched all or almost all of them), i don't understand how he can still be so vehemently against trump. I understand not liking him. I understand thinking he's a moron not fit for the seat. I disagree but i understand. But i don't understand how john, the same john that's written and said countless brilliant things over the years, can think biden would be better than trump, especially in the context of a discussion around race.

[@wjchanter]

I can't wrap my head around that either. These two helped create the conservative that I am today. My views have changed dramatically and I thank them for this! Total eye opening gentlemen and I don't really care who they vote for. I just love to listen to their objects. I just hope they know that I'm a 40 year old white ex liberal who was lost and they helped me find the way. Thank you!

[@obedirect5491]

Easily, Biden is better. Drumpf thrives off chaos; that's enough to want him out of the WH.

[@facE055]

@@obedirect5491 you're just regurgitating what the media tells you. Literally the entire democratic platform at the moment is "create chaos through lies." And do you actually think people will take you seriously as an adult when you use the term "drumpf?" That's embarrassing.

[@pdumpsterful]

Because these people have been fed lies all their lives and are filled with hate as most Democrats are. A lot of people dont want the truth today. Remember when they asked who do you want me to free, jesus or barabbas? They said barabbas and put Jesus on the cross and crucified him

[@SirBoden]

Open respectful discourse is so refreshing. Edit: the documentary is not on Prime in the Portland area.

[@blindtrace7220]

Amazon prime won't show me the movie.

[@andrewmrcz]

Same

[@saracappello6805]

Same here

[@saracappello6805]

It doesn't even appear at all when I put it in.

[@nickp3961]

www.republicworld.com/entertainment-news/hollywood-news/what-killed-michael-brown-rejected-by-amazon-director-responds.html

[@tessjones3566]

It's definitely worth the purchase on Vimeo.

[@djaybkay]

I can't find "What Killed Michael Brown" on Amazon Prime.

[@philosophyjunkies6693]

Amazon took it down.

[@djz2308]

According to the director, they sold the film to another buyer (Vemeo) after being rejected by Amazon. The film showed up on Amazon despite the rejection and so the director demanded Amazon take it down. Kinda weird on both fronts.

[@philosophyjunkies6693]

@@djz2308 lol

[@philosophyjunkies6693]

What a mess

[@AlexRides808]

@@djz2308 Maybe they made a deal with Vimeo since Amazon was dragging their feet.

[@go2therock]

Glenn, I don't understand your statement, "I don't think it's murder, I do think it's death." The baby is not self-aborting as in a miscarriage. The parents are the initiator of the baby's life and the mother walks into a clinic and submits to a procedure that violently ends their life.

[@buybuydandavis]

McWhorter gots the TDS real bad. He got to hate Kanye because Kanye running for President might help Trump.

[@classiqueliberal8576]

@Mitch Lang Quite the opposite. Trump is all that is standing between us and Critical Race Theory. If you cannot identify the reason Trump got elected in the first place, I am not surprised you cannot understand why he is likely to be reelected.

[@donna1235]

@Mitch Lang Because you are afraid of a possible consequence of something, that justifies canceling free speech?

[@jackraia8600]

I rarely disagree with either of you but I’d be careful about predicting the election. Check out Zero-hedge article on voter registration. www.zerohedge.com/markets/jpmorgans-kolanovic-has-warning-those-expecting-crushing-biden-victory?fbclid=IwAR1QMz0L606NN-nxZPP3ZB72E-lxeB-JpgkUx157S5R39-dManAicG3oY-Y

[@kham9578]

@Mitch Lang yes because that’s what trump has done these last 4 years killed our republic,,, the people that are trying to kill this country are the ones you seem to support ,,, our country has done better under trump , then Obama /Biden wake up before it’s to late ,, coming from a former democrat,,

[@iamjurell]

That doesn't sound like it reflects anything McWhorter said in this video - quite the opposite, in fact

[@Siceone]

Love these.... Thank you!

[@hanachelache66]

Another great episode! This is probably my favourite show on KZbin. - I am looking forward to watching the documentary by Shelby Steele. I have read White Guilt and found it very resonant to the way I have seen people behave around these issues all my life. Thank you again!!

[@RG001100]

"Can't they shoot him in the knee, rather than shoot to kill?" I think everyone who wonders this has never shot a gun under time pressure. I'm also on my armchair, but from what I see of shooting sports (which doesn't even involve life/death for missing), it looks impractical.

[@iamjurell]

1. Aiming for center mass doesn't guarantee a hit (I think around half of shots aimed at center mass miss in real life police shootings) and 'aiming for the legs' is a much harder target if someone is running at you 2. Shooting someone in the leg can absolutely kill them, and it'll be a much slower and more painful death. I think being shot in the heart with a high calibre round results in a bleed out in as little as 8 seconds, whereas clipping the large femoral artery is, perhaps counter-intuitively, not preferable to being shot in the chest 3. Missing a shot at someone's legs - aiming for a low trajectory - gives much more chance of ricochet and accidental damage than a bullet passing through the chest and traveling out the other side horizontally 4. You should either shoot to kill or absolutely not at all. There is no 'safe' way of shooting someone, let alone a 'safe' way of doing it while protecting your own life against someone running at you with, say, a knife, with intent to kill. Shoot to kill or absolutely do not shoot. It's also worth noting that Biden suggests banning choke holds while recommending 'shoot them in the leg,' which apparently sounds nice to some people but in reality the suggestion means that, in many cases, the *only* option for a police officer to defend themself will be to shoot (and let the suspect painfully bleed out) where otherwise they could merely incapacitate an aggressor. Police policy and training needs *serious* reform and consideration, but it seems like it's all rhetoric and action movie logic at the moment.

[@patharvard]

If you shoot a person in the leg and hit the femoral artery, the person could bleed to death in a minute. The object of the police (in official police policy) is to neutralize the lethal threat posed by the subject.

[@iamjurell]

@@yamishogun6501 I should have noted that I have absolutely *no* experience or first hand knowledge with this topic, I'm merely a gun enthusiast and have read and thought on a lot of police/military training manuals and am mostly also extrapolating from other skill sets in which I do have experience.

[@iamjurell]

@@richardbicker640 Libgen is also incredibly good for raw sources

[@ibanezdudeck]

Unfortunately, people that love to say "follow the science" don't like to listen to the experts when it comes to guns. If we stopped stigmatizing organizations like the NRA and did a better job of allowing people that are familiar with guns to share their knowledge with the public, we'd be better off for it. There's major arteries in your legs so a leg shot is not less likely to kill than a gut shot. In addition, your torso is a much bigger and more stable target than a leg or arm flinging around. Shooting a hand gun at distance on a moving target is a very hard thing. At 25yds with no stress and a stationary target, I'm lucky if I can keep 15 shots in a row on a torso size target and I've been shooting pistol regularly for 2 years now. If aiming for the leg, you'll end up with more missed shots, higher potential for innocent people getting caught in the crossfire, and creates an extra level of arbitrary decision making in a life or death situation that will result in more cops dying trying to follow the rules or going to jail for not taking the time to follow the rules in a life or death situation.

[@philsdon8932]

As of Oct. 20 at 6:18 pm, What Killed Michael Brown is not available on Amazon Prime.

[@gussowsclassicbluesharmoni2726]

I'll start by saying that I love and respect both of you guys. You've helped me remain sane over the past six months. I've watched many of your video conversations. I've learned a great deal from both of you, and I can't tell you how eager I am to read John's book when it comes out. I also agree with 95% of what you've said here with reference to Shelby Steele's film, which I watched on Vimeo the moment it became available on Vimeo earlier this week. I'm glad it's out there, making trouble--good trouble, in my view. All that being said, I think that the film fails badly in one crucial respect, and it's a respect that neither of you, I believe, says a single word about in your conversation about the film. The first DOJ report, on the shooting of Michael Brown, does indeed establish, through scrupulous evaluation of the available facts, that Brown charged Wilson; that Wilson shot him in a measured way, in self-defense; and that Brown is thus responsible for his own death. (It was six black witnesses who helped the DOJ establish this.) To this extent, Holder’s (and Obama’s) DOJ did terrific work and showed great integrity-an integrity that was remarkable under the pressured circumstances, and that Steele softpedals, even as he endorses and dramatizes their view of how the Brown/Wilson encounter went down. But in the second patterns-and-practices investigation, which I’ve read every word of, and which manifests equal integrity, Holder’s DOJ establishes beyond doubt, again with the help of a range of evidence including heartbreaking testimony from a number of black Ferguson residents and others passing through and trapped in their snares, that the Ferguson PD was rapacious, corrupt, and overtly racist. Steele didn’t bother to dramatize the voices of THOSE black witnesses, as he dramatized the voices of the witnesses who watched Brown charge Wilson. If he had, his argument about Holder would have fallen apart. Instead Steele interviewed the wife of a Ferguson cop, and the former head of the Ferguson PD! That’s absurd, frankly, and it means that his account of why the city exploded in the aftermath of Brown’s killing is critically wrong in this key respect. “Hands up, don’t shoot!” was indeed a lie propagated by Dorian Johnson, but the poetic truth it encoded was potent, and is something that Steele simply skirts: the black community in Ferguson had been ruthlessly abused and economically exploited by the Ferguson PD for a long time. Read the DOJ report. Read the racist emails exchanged by Ferguson PD employees. Read account after account-evidenced accounts-collected by Holder’s DOJ of Ferguson cops insulting black community members, using dogs on them (in EVERY encounter where the PD used canines on people, they were used on black people), competing with each other to see how many tickets they could write for a single encounter with a motorist (nine, fourteen). It’s all in that second DOJ report. It makes clear that, at least in the case of the Ferguson PD, the phrase “structural racism,” as well as the phrase “racist cops,” actually means something. Steele’s film raised many interesting questions, and the sequence at the end in which he wandered in the graveyard on the land where his ancestors were enslaved is moving. Steele got a lot right. But he seriously misrepresented the good, careful, sober work that Holder’s DOJ actually did. And to that extent, he let ideology, not reason, lead him to miss a critically important reason why the city went up in flames. Black people in Ferguson were tired of being preyed upon by their own police force. “Hands up, don’t shoot” expressed THAT poetic truth.

[@gussowsclassicbluesharmoni2726]

If anybody is interested in understanding how the two DOJ reports fit together to offer a more complicated explanation for why black rage, such as it was, erupted in Ferguson, I've written an article that quotes extensively the relevant portions of both reports. medium.com/@asgussow_69031/the-straw-that-broke-michael-brown-darren-wilson-and-two-true-tales-told-by-obamas-doj-9ae7f2a3846

[@jimm.1013]

@@gussowsclassicbluesharmoni2726 I do not live in Ferguson but I personally have a tough time blaming police for citizens rioting. That opinion has to do with the mindset required to riot and loot, and the police department overseeing those with that mindset. I think my viewpoint is underscored when I see people glorifying the legacy of Michael Brown. It is a community with a problem that is not related to police. I will say that looting and rioting brings to the fore the death of Brown and makes it national news. Unfortunately, it does not work in a positive way, at least not in my eyes.

[@johnstewart7025]

@@jimm.1013 how would you behave after decades of police and courts exploiting people of your color, you see and hear about a street movement to hold police accountable?

[@jimm.1013]

@@johnstewart7025 You said "street movement". I would approve of protests. I specifically cited riots and looting. And as I said, it is telltale that the community makes a martyr out of Michael Brown, a petty thief.

[@Sonderbarr]

@G - Excellent post. >Black people in Ferguson were tired of being preyed upon by their own police force. < That's also how I understood it at the time and I think it somehow got neglected as, in my opinion, the KEY revelation about what was going down with the police in Ferguson. I hope it's now been corrected despite getting lost in the larger discourse.

[@valencia4215]

Yes, Glenn...would love to see an interview with you, John, Shelby and Eli Steele!!!

[@KTravRuNEr]

Shelby Steele’s The Content of Our Character was fantastic. Should be mandatory reading. For all.

[@greghopper607]

Another great conversation

[@tedsess3106]

As always, thank you Glenn and John.

[@archstanton3430]

John's smug, out-of-touch elitist attitude made this really hard to get through. I respect his willingness to call out the worst excesses of the left, but holy shit does he need to step out of that ivory tower bubble.

[@lisamontez9401]

Coates is not a good writer. I've only read one of his books, but it was THE WORST book I have ever read. Chock full of grammatical errors, I was amazed that that book was assigned to a college English class. Amazed!

[@jdlotus8253]

Not on Prime in UK.

[@olewetdog6254]

John drinks wine, wears cardigans and went to private school and is smart as $h!t. THAT'S AUTHENTIC ENOUGH FOR ME! Don't sell yourself short John. Frankly the way Kanye and Ice Cube act and speak seems like a put-on to me. I don't take them to be authentic at all.

[@joerodriguez9350]

The destruction of the family and the lack of a father figure in the home is the main cause of teenage/unwanted pregnancies.

[@ricomariarico8213]

Love everything that you guys put out. Keep it up

[@oleeb]

The battle cry that the Great Society didn’t work is just factually incorrect. First, most of the programs did work, but they only lasted a few years and Nixon killed all the programs. Nixon withdrew from the war on poverty 5 years before he began withdrawal from Viet Nam. And yes, industrial mechanization and deindustrialization were underway by 1960 and impacting blacks earlier than whites. Using Pruitt Igoe as proof of the failure of the Great Society is misleading. It is the exception not the rule. We learned from those failures but since 1968 have been unable to undertake what we know are effective anti-poverty programs which is unfortunate. The best thing we can and should do is give people work-not just black people but all working class and poor Americans jobs! You don’t have high crime and high drug abuse in neighborhoods where everyone has a decent job. Kids that aren’t living in poverty regardless of race don’t do as well in school. Homes battered by poverty regardless of race are traumatic and it makes it extremely difficult for children to learn and do well at school. Teen parents who are dropouts raised by teen parents who are dropouts don’t know how to parent well. It’s a vicious cycle, but it can be broken. It takes time and money. Make sure people have jobs!!!!!

[@tlockerk]

Movie NOT available in Georgia. Astonishing how many movies Prime is 'declining'.

[@buckatoms]

I enjoy this show and respect their views, but it blows my mind how John hates Trump so much that he's comfortable with the idea of a Biden administration. I'm not going to lie, it irritates me a bit.

[@c_average4618]

If Trump is a "jackass" what then is Biden??? I cannot understand the positive Biden take without seeing it as only tied to the hate for Trump and no other reason. Nobody ever says why Biden they just say NO TRUMP, it's weird considering Trump has not done anything to justify the vitriol. Since the day he announced running for president he has been scrutinized like no-one ever has and none of the accusations have stuck. On the other hand Biden has apparently done all of the things which Trump has been accused but there are nothing but crickets.

[@kham9578]

You know I always thought John was a pretty smart man ,,, now I think not so much ,

[@lisamontez9401]

Towards the end of this discussion he says that he's toying with the idea that maybe the 60's were a bad thing for the black community. Now, that is thinking outside of the box. It's a very brave thing to say, 99.9999% of people would not say it but he might be right. I don't agree with half of what he says but he's a pretty darn smart man, no doubt. He just needs to get that TDS fixed.

[@carlscott4180]

Love the recognition that Content of our Character is a classic. CS

[@D00kerT]

I too have seen a few studies, referenced by a City Journal podcast segment, which talk about the myth of the food desert; mainly that there is far more evidence that the consequences of dietary choice (or supposed lack their of), is far more linked to individual choices and behavior.

[@sauernick1]

I really love these talks. I have to say, what irks me is when Glenn goes on a meandering diatribe, and then barely gives room for John to flesh out his points. Yeah, it's the Glenn Show, but that doesn't mean that Glenn should steamroll John. And if you think I'm biased against Glenn, no, I agree with his viewpoint more than John's probably more than half the time. Sometimes we have to learn how stop talking, to sit back and listen.

[@neocastro2200]

G-LO and Johnny Mac are back!

[@pinkisforpimps]

I wish they would upload weekly!

[@crazierthan-u7571]

"It's religious, it's limp, it's damp, it's babyish, it's pious." I wish I could string these words together like beads and wear them as a necklace. John, you are a wordsmith whose mastery I can never match, but what joy to admire it from afar! I have been bedeviled for decades by the unspeakable decline of our language. I need professional help (specifically yours). How I long for your reassurance, or even just your commisery, regarding various particulars. But I dream. Oh, yeah -- I don't share your doubts about Trump being reelected. The activities of the crying critical-theory crowd are swiftly securing four more tangerine years. And to these people, I say: THANKS A LOT.

[@chrisparker8539]

I bought the physical DVD of What Killed Michael Brown? through their website a few days ago. Really looking forward to receiving and watching it.

[@finlaycarr6425]

Love your conversations Glenn and John, the meeting of two great minds

[@davidkaiser]

I just got the video to come up on amazon but it says that it's unavailable to watch in my location (Boston suburb.)

[@felixrichard6137]

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[@wojakwoes3970]

You really think Biden is going to win @22:30 with these cooked up polls? While my respect is in tact for both you gentlemen, your credibility on the other hand certainly took a hit.

[@deonred]

Im surprised that people still think trump won't win.his base is bigger and more diverse than 2016 and more energized. I don't think it will be a blow out, but trump will win by a good bit.

[@Chelamy1]

Hello gentlemen - I look forward to your podcast! I would like to come in on something Mr. McWhorter said, as to why police do not shoot in the shins, or the lake or some less lethal location. There are a number of reasons. I am a police officer nearly 30 years tenure. One major reason is that our fine motor skills deteriorate under stress. To shoot with precision at a smaller target is very difficult, unless you have trained extensively under simulated high stress, high-pressure situations. Even then, it can be difficult. The center mass also is a larger target making it less likely that you might hit a bystander. Secondly, find your weapon is considered deadly force - and you should never use it unless you are in fear of losing your life, or in fear of somebody else losing their life for, or to prevent rape.Thus, if you shoot you must be justified to shoot to kill, And when your life is threatened fractions of seconds can count. You do not have time to aim at a less lethal area of the body. As regarding the Michael Brown specific situation, I believe Ofc Wilson was in his car, with Michael Brown reaching in trying to grab his gun, which placed the officer at a disadvantage tactically. In such close quarters with the fear of having his gun taken from him, or being killed, just shooting to remove the threat was about all Wilson could probably do under the circumstances. Remember, we are talking about mere seconds.

[@twoshedsjohnson8540]

Another bizarre thing...yesterday after watching this I Googled "What Killed Michael Brown?" and found an article on the Wall Street Journal about this story about Amazon's boycott of it. And going back to it again this morning shows the story mysteriously missing now..."Page Not Found".

[@woundedchildstory3172]

I learn a new word every time I watch these guys. Thanks for making my vocabulary gooder :)

[@honestjohn6418]

Thank you for another wonderful conversation gentleman. It’s so difficult to get anyone to change their minds on this subject. First, the emotional/poetic “truth” is more appealing. It’s full of drama, injustice and heroism. It’s Mississippi Burning and everyone gets to play civil rights activists, on the right side of history, against The Man. The actual truth, that a teenage criminal robbed a shop, attacked a cop and was shot dead in a justified act of self defense. And the problem isn’t Mississippi Burning 2020 but criminality, lack of self discipline, honour culture and the idea that to be authentically black is to be an angry rebel who gets what he wants and brings fury to those who might challenge him. The mundane truth of a criminal getting shot cannot compete with the emotional drama of Mississippi Burning 2020. As for Amazon Prime rejecting it before carrying it (and the steady flow of articles on journals of note, critiquing the movie and the Steeles), that has the effect of giving those who prefer the drama of Mississippi Burning to the actual truth, a get out clause. I’m English and my dad is 80 years old and a life long centrist. Has never liked the far left but is fully convinced of the BLM narrative. He’s old school and trusts the BBC and mainstream journals like the Economist. The BBC and the Economist tend to show the BLM narrative as the truth and sideline opposing views. I can’t get him to read someone like Heather MacDonald because she’s been slimed in the British media as a crazy climate change denying, arch Conservative. Not credible. I can’t get him to watch you guys because a KZbin video, no matter how good, if it’s totally contradicting the venerable BBC and almost the entirety of polite British society, then that video must be off kilter somehow. Perhaps you guys have been misled by Trumpite misinformation or Russian propaganda or perhaps you’re just more out of touch American “arch conservatives” who probably think climate change and COVID19 are hoaxes. But when it comes to a question of who to trust, the BBC are always going to win. I can just see his reaction to being asked to watch this movie...it’ll involve the fact that the movie’s release was held up due to questionable claims made by the film makers. Film makers referred to in the British media as “arch conservatives” etc It won’t get watched and if it does it won’t make a dent. My dad will continue to think he’s seeing a rerun of the Civil Rights movement and he is on the side of the angels, along with all other good hearted, right thinking people. What a satisfying fiction. A fiction which would be costly to reject, putting one in the camp of the arch conservatives and even actual racists. The BLM/Mississippi Burning narrative is unassailable. It’s just too satisfying, well subscribed to by the great end good, opposed by the bad (bogeymen like Trump) and costly to disagree with. If only Steele and you guys had the same mainstream platform BLM have, then maybe, just maybe my old dad would at least listen.

[@honestjohn6418]

@Mitch Lang I was staunchly against Trump in 2016 for exactly this reason. I became aware of the craziness regarding race, sex and gender, coming out of the universities in 2012. I knew it was crazy, wrong and dangerous but had yet to go mainstream. At the time, the claims they were making, during the Obama administration, about racist, sexist, white supremacist patriarchy was obviously laughably hysterical. Whilst the majority of the establishment and most nice middle class folk liked the feminist, anti racist themes of the social justice movement, they realized it was a bit mad, seeing oppression where it wasn’t and wildly overreacting to imagined bogeyman. Then along came Trump with his inarticulate flapping gums, saying things almost designed to prove the radical social justice lunatics right. I knew that his presence in the political landscape would derange an already deranged movement and that a Trump victory would vindicate that movement. Driving millions of previously moderate people into the arms and ideology of the radical identarian left. That is why I opposed Trump in 2016. Not because he’s a racist but because he said things that when hitting the ears of moderate liberals would certainly sound racist. I was right about everything. Trump deranged the radicals but seemed to vindicate their narrative and drove millions of moderates into the arms of BLM, radical feminists and trans activists. But now that process of radicalization has happened and BLM/trans activists have been welcomed into or taken over every institution, public and private, in the English speaking world, Trump is the only one standing in their way. I’m not sure what the answer is anymore. If Trump wins, Rome burns, if he loses, the identarian left not only run the mainstream media and Silicon Valley plus all of the schools and universities, the British Parliament and Canada, they will run Washington. Currently the only person standing between total lefty identarian domination of the entirety of Western civilization, is that inarticulate buffoon Trump. Anyway, it’s moot as early election data seems to show that you will have a short stint of Biden then President Kamala Harris will usher in the social justice utopia.

[@honestjohn6418]

@Mitch Lang possibly. Which is why I don’t know what to think. It could just as likely be, that a Kamala Harris administration runs multiple investigations into Trump which find him guilty of fascism and election fraud, creating the rationale and mass support for sweeping reforms to prosecute and silence voices like Sam Harris (under European style hate speech laws) for Islamophobia and perhaps voices like Glenn and John under the guise of spreading misinformation of the type which led to Trump’s fascist take over of Washington. I can quite easily see it going either way. A return to sanity with the orange man out of the picture, or that post Trump derangement syndrome, infused with social justice ideology, in power, sworn to ensure that a Trump situation never happens again, therefore wrong thinkers removed from their platforms lest they inspire the stupid electorate to vote for anyone to the right of Obama. Sure Trump is still in the Whitehouse and they’re already openly suppressing stories and voices they don’t like, under the guise that they’re hateful or are peddling lies.

[@honestjohn6418]

@Mitch Lang PS: I don’t think the social justice activists are crazier, I think they gained mass support due to Trump seeming to prove them correct in a way that gave their ideas an urgency that seemed to require emergency direct action. But essentially the crazy ideology hasn’t changed. They were always crazy but post Trump, lots of normies joined them in their madness and their cause became less about forcing representation for trans people in programming or forcing pay equity on the private sector, and more about taking to the streets, Molotov cocktail in hand, to defend civilization from imagined Nazis.

[@amorfati4927]

Trump is an easy fodder for simple explanations. The truth is there are far too many variables to lay the blame down on Trump. BLM existed before his presidency and was looking for the perfect situation to strike. George Floyd situation and completely controlling the narrative with a shortened version of the story was it (opinions aside on the situation there is no denying that the situation as a whole is much more complex then what was first shown). This is the first president that social media has been really in the masses for the entire time. Divisiveness has been around forever but there is no denying that the other side of the isle also played very divisive games. Obama went from saying race would not be a reason why he was elected, to we were 90% there in getting rid of racism to by the end of his presidency saying it was part of our DNA and is as bad as it has ever been. Hillary Clinton called nearly half of the nation “deplorables.” These are just to name a few. Surely Trump has not done much to help or even has possibly hindered but to say that it’s TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP is very simplistic, narrow minded and dishonest. That isn’t what I wanted to comment on, though. I think the OP is completely right. There is a certain romanticizing that just feels good. Another commentary compared it to people living out their fairy tales finding dragons to slay. If something seems like a dragon (racism, sexism and all the others even if they are misguided or dishonest like BLM), there is a feel to be noble for the cause. Surely, there is no need to question such things because they existed before so no one would dare invoke such sentiment if it were not truthful. So people just go along. The idea that one might be wrong is terrifying, so it is easier and feels better to just avoid countering information to avoid the anxiety and possible emotional trauma of being on the wrong side of an argument (history or what ever). It sounds so hyperbolic but it is the actual truth facing America and many parts of the world today. People are being trained to feel such ways about conflict and differing opinion.

[@patscheible5140]

@@honestjohn6418 k

[@jonhepworth1674]

I am reading John’s book; “Our Magnificent Bastard Tongue”. What a treasure!

[@aircap63]

Simply love everything you guys do! I learn something new every time. Thanks, Glen and John!

[@jn3750]

Glen and John, i like what you do!

[@PaulKulas]

I am in Kansas. It is not available on amazon prime. It says "This video is currently unavailable to watch in your location." I could not find the movie through the amazon search engine. I had to Google "what killed michael brown amazon prime". That was the only way I could even see that amazon had the film on their platform.

[@miramichi30]

I'm in Canada, and the movie doesn't show up when I search prime.

[@Saddamuel]

Comrade, we wouldn't want you falling prey to far-right propaganda! Do not fear. Our Great Patriotic Corporations and Leaders will keep us safe from these anti-progress ideas.

[@danlnad]

I enjoy the chemistry you guys have. I listen to most of your chats. I like the different perspectives and I've learned a lot. Thanks to both of you.

[@Grkgroup2]

Documentary is blocked from Amazon Prime Video. “This video is currently unavailable to watch in your location”

[@TheChippewa77]

Love the video! However, LE personnel are not technically taught to "shoot to kill", they are trained to fire for center-mass in an effort to strike and hopefully disable the offender.

[@SString215]

I can’t wait to see the Steele’s on this podcast!! Christmas will come early. ❤️

[@jeremybentham5037]

Very excited to see what moves The Glenn Show is making in the future. For sure this how deserves a wider audience. Thanks for continuing to make it Glenn and John. 😁😁

[@andrewmrcz]

I still can't find "What Killed Michael Brown?" on amazon prime

[@xmalcom650]

They rejected it.

[@andrewmrcz]

During the conversation John says they changed their mind and allowed it

[@honestjohn6418]

Could be about where you are. Amazon Prime has completely different stuff in Europe and Asia than in America. Could be regional.

[@howzyerfather]

I just searched for it on Amazon and nothing comes up :/

[@maddydrea]

The reason Amazon prime reversed its position on Steele's movie is that the Wall Street Journal wrote a scathing criticism of their initial action.

[@molecularalchemy7798]

Amazon informed the Steeles that their film is "not eligible for publishing" because it "doesn't meet Prime Video's content quality expectations. Amazon also said that they "will not be accepting re-submission of this title and this decision may not be appealed." This is the platform that has published "Ticks" (1993) and "The Velocipastor" (2018), but apparently the quality of these films exceeds Steeles' work...

[@jullenarhernandezparham5952]

The video is not available. They have a poster for sale, but no video.

[@disfarm2216]

I never miss the black guys at bloggingheads. Thanks guys.

[@bargtay]

Can't find the documentary anywhere on Amazon.

[@bargtay]

Found it. It's currently unavailable to watch in my location. Wow!.

[@mollynash2597]

I just finished watching "What Killed Michael Brown" on Vimeo. I don't have Amazon Prime but when I did a search for it, it said it was not available in my area (Nashville, TN). Also, on the official "What Killed Michael Brown" website they said Amazon was served with a cease and desist letter. I thought Shelby Steele did answer the question, in that Michael Brown after growing up in generation after generation in poor black neighborhoods where the Government says "here's your check and your housing voucher", he didn't have any self worth. Michael took a risk that most people with some common sense would not have taken against a police officer (those are my thoughts) and it ended badly for him.

[@mollynash2597]

According to What Killed Michael Brown facebook page, Amazon has decided to stream the documentary as of Oct. 20.

[@julianfischer1485]

Love these guys!!! Can't wait to read Mcwhorter's next book, and Glenn's one day.

[@HugoJL]

Calling somebody a "jackass", and making long-distance medical evaluations (when you're a trained linguist) such as "has mental problems", "narcissist", it all reeks of rigorous intellectual exercises. And yes, I do love you, John McWhorter. Greetings from Mexico

[@JacobCheriathundam]

It's not on Amazon anymore

[@dustincastellanos9138]

The black guys at bloggingheads.tv are back!

[@carlosgaspar8447]

mcwhorter reminds me of steve urkel, on family matters.

[@jwt242]

Excellent discussion once again, gentlemen. Regarding Mr. Loury's comment at approximately 59:42 in which he differentiates "shifting economic realities" from "social policy and dependency": are the two not related? Thus, don't shifting economic realities drive social policy and by extension their dependencies?