What makes Fronius inverters better

Is Fronius really all it’s cracked up to be? Mark and Rod talk tech and compare 9 features of the Fronius inverter with other brands (Goodwe, Enphase, Huawei, SMA, Sungrow, Tigo, Aiswei, Tesla Powerwall, BYD Battery-Box)
1:10 Why Fronius favours the fan compared to fanless inverters
4:54 Fronius vs. individual panel monitoring
6:55 What’s MPPT and GMPPT?
10:55 Two vs. Three Tracker Inverters
12:41 Not all AFCIs (Arc Fault Circuit Interrupters) are the same
16:19 Cyber security versus extra functionality
18:46 The downside to better cyber security
19:09 Catch Power relays as an alternative for load control
19:29 Blackouts with Tesla versus the BYD and Fronius combination
20:17 Battery interface: What’s depth of discharge in a solar battery?
21:15 Fronius x BYD Battery update coming soon
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Watch Mark’s Tigo video: mce.solar/tigo
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Check out Mark’s review on Enphase: www.mcelectrical.com.au/micro...
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Featuring Mark Cavanagh (MC Electrical) and Rod Dewar (Fronius Australia).

[@blave7528]

For years I selling fronius gen24 . I am really a freak of this stuff. Love it

[@davidchin2381]

Thanks for putting this video out! I just upgraded my PV system to a 10kW Fronius Gen 24 inverter. Have not installed battery storage .... yet. Enjoyed learning more about the tech side of Fronius Gen24 inverter. Look forward to your review of the Fronius Gen24 and BYD Battery setup esp in real life operation and blackout situations, comparison with Tesla's Powerwall.

[@mcelectrical]

Thanks David, Mark has done a comparison of the Tesla vs. BYD here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g3utlqukpNVpjtk

[@Zoltan1996]

Deye buy deye is half the price on battery and dont pay extra subscription on your smart meter to show you data😅😅

[@galax64]

For best fire safety: Inverter with arc detection & tigos with rapid shutdown. I just got more 10 x410w wall panels, those are with tigos + 8 ground mount panels with tigos.. 16 panels in roof , without tigos.

[@danieler1981]

Great video! It would be great if Fronius was compatible with more battery brands.

[@mcelectrical]

The have the best ;) The problem with adopting too many batteries is that you need to update and improve firmware and the integration. It’s much easier to focus and do 1 battery well than spread your focus and do multiple batteries half hearted.

[@danieler1981]

@@mcelectrical I agree, thanks for answering ;)

[@Zoltan1996]

Deye buy deye is half the price on battery and dont pay extra subscription on your smart meter to show you data😅😅

[@caztroll]

Dala has developed a converter to use nissan leaf or tesla batteries. kzbin.info/www/bejne/sIPOkIpmhJKKi7c

[@steinmar2]

Tesla Powerwall 3 will have 6 independent MPP inputs and I live in Austria near Fronius 10km (even considering working for them as a engineer) I really want to use them but with only 2 MPPs it’s sadly a no go and a maximum of 10kVA for hybrid is little bit boring..

[@mcelectrical]

6mppt?! Mind blown. But, like I said in the video, more mppt’s are not necessarily better. Efficiency losses, increased expense in the wrong place. I’d rather an inverter with a great mppt and 2 algorithms than an inverter with an average mppt and 6 algorithms. Tesla may be awesome. Can’t wait to test it.

[@Zoltan1996]

Deye buy deye is half the price on battery and dont pay extra subscription on your smart meter to show you data😅😅

[@TravB-rk2wx]

Great video. Does the Fronius Gen24 inverter have Arc Fault Detection built in? I saw from the fronius website that some fronius snap inverters do, but not sure about the gen24.

[@mcelectrical]

Yes, I believe all units shipped to Australia have AFCI.

[@grantmacpherson8632]

Thank you great video, I wish you asked when/if Fronius will get the change over time for the Fronius 24 and BYD battery combo down to the same as a Tesla Battery in a black out, currently my system takes around 20-30 seconds. PS I do have the latest firmware installed on the inverter.

[@mcelectrical]

Thanks Grant! Mark mentions Fronius is working on reducing it for a future firmware update here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g3utlqukpNVpjtk and he also weighs the pros and cons of a quick changeover time versus a slower time. Some might prefer the slower changeover time for good reason...

[@Zoltan1996]

Deye buy deye is half the price on battery and dont pay extra subscription on your smart meter to show you data😅😅

[@martingriffiths9851]

I have a comment about step 7. Cybersecurity of this discussion. I dont understand why Fronius does not support encrypted network traffic within the local network. The only way I can connect directly to the Fronius inverter (not over their portal) within the local network is using open (un-encrypted) http traffic. This for 2024 shocks me. (it would be a welcome security improvement to have https in the next update).

[@haanjamiis]

I like my Fronius "ecosystem" but I wonder does it really support only BYD and LG batteries?

[@joschmoyo4532]

I can definitely recomend the gen 24. It is self evidently more efficient than our older SMA. Both excellent brands though reliability wise. I dont mind the slow change over in black out's. It lets me know there is a blackout in progress. We have tested the inverters output in blackout up to its maximum of 6kw succesfully but we try to avoid working the batteries to hard. Its not a true off grid inverter but we have had blackouts beyond 24 hours and it coped just fine.

[@mcelectrical]

Glad to hear it's working well for you in blackouts.

[@alf699]

I run three single phase Fronius Primos 8.2KW per unit since November 2023. The whole system install/upgrade was delayed as the Primos were on back order and my Installer (who I trust) suggested other type of Inverters. This was the only time that I insisted on the Primos. They have been around for a long time and have proven reliable. Yes, the fans make a bit of noise and I was fully aware of that before picking them. But it's nowhere near as bad as some make it out to be. In regards to noise, they are on par or even less noisy then the fans on my two Selectronic SP Pro's 482/7.5KW. Also I have a real dislike of Manufacturers now removing front Panel LCD Displays. That is just cost cutting. They have always been extremely handy to an instantaneous look plus most have/had the options to verify or change settings without having to go and having to pull out Laptops etc. All My previous Inverters had LCD Displays: SMA Sunny Boy, Kaco 4.2 and now Fronius Primo's 8.2KW

[@momouppa]

Love your vids think we are overdue for another, when are we going to here you on the solar podcast with old mate from solar analytics and the istore fella

[@mcelectrical]

Ha yeh, good point! I’ve had Nigel and Karl on mine, but never got an invite onto theirs!

[@momouppa]

@@mcelectrical I'll have to look your podcast up

[@dalejubb6594]

I think the storm modes will eventually need to be controlled via Dynamic Exports (DNSP), if everyone hits storm mode at the same time and starts to import along with ev's charging that could cause issues with the grid.

[@mcelectrical]

Interesting. You don’t happen to know a product that could potentially help with that 😉?

[@kierontaylor9801]

Hi mark, Fronius seems good with shade management and panel degradation, How do you find inverters like growatt, sungrow and goodwe stack up compared to it? Like do they struggle to keep the inverter running with same kw standard as fronius under panel degradation and shade

[@mcelectrical]

I’m not sure about panel degradation, but with shade, Fronius (and SMA) are miles ahead of everything I have compared it to, including Sungrow and Goodwe. Oh, except for SMA who are equivalent. And Enphase works completely different in the shade, sometimes a tad better, sometimes a tad worse, really depends on the shade pattern and the panel.

[@Colstah]

I recently had a Fronius system installed and am very happy with it, but of course for me, it's early days. As you know, the inverter can supply a power point in the event of a blackout. I am an electrical contractor and have installed quite a few changeover switches and inlets for generator connections to the house. Is there any reason not to feed the inverter pv point supply back into the house via a changeover switch?

[@mcelectrical]

Hey, good question. It’s possible but it’s only 3kW max. An upgrade is hopefully coming where the PV point will be permanently on. So leave your fridge and another gpo on permanent Pv point. It will take an extra pcb in the inverter, but nice idea for some

[@Colstah]

@@mcelectrical Thanks for that info. Yes, I realise the limitations but the parts aren't too costly and my labour is free, more of a convenience thing really. If I went down that route would I need to limit my draw with perhaps a 10A MCB, or will the inverter safely limit the draw, without damaging itself? Cheers.

[@Zoltan1996]

Deye buy deye is half the price on battery and dont pay extra subscription on your smart meter to show you data😅😅

[@bramcoteelectrical1088]

Make sure you get the Eps side correct tie the netrual down to earth so you don't have floating 😉 do at change over switch. Australian to UK code is different as at the change over the netrual remains connected unlike UK change over switches

[@parisvar]

Do you know if 3phase Fronius hybrid inverters support unbalanced output ?

[@markusweissenbock6337]

Gen24 and Verto will support that feature soon. Version 1.32.x

[@oppo-tune-nitty8043]

If you only had a choice @mark, Solaredge or Tigo ? What would you use?

[@mcelectrical]

There is no reason for either. But if i had to choose one I would go tigo with fronius then take the tigo off so it doesn’t interfere with the fromius mppt. :)

[@denniswright8001]

hi you keep saying pick the right installer can you recommend any good installers in the Penrith area to maybe get a quote

[@mcelectrical]

You couldn’t make the question easier. Penrith solar are honestly the best. The owner Jake and I work closely together on how to do solar better. I’ve been to his factory several times. It’s mind blowing. There is one small issue. Jake loves enphase as much as I love fronius. He only installs enphase. But. Here it the point. Installation company is way more important than product. Although I disagree with Jake on product choice, I’ll back him every day as an installer. kzbin.info/www/bejne/eKiVcoCtrbV6p8ksi=CVyTTdwTxO4sUT0o

[@joeee60]

Give us someone else that will install Fronious?

[@andym2097]

How is a 3 orientation system correctly handled with a 2mppt inverter? This was briefly mentioned

[@mcelectrical]

Hi Andy. You can parallel across different orientations like this. www.mcelectrical.com.au/solar-panel-design-north-east-west/

[@Zoltan1996]

Deye buy deye is half the price on battery and dont pay extra subscription on your smart meter to show you data😅😅

[@Justin-fd8iw]

I don't mind my fan noise , I know when it working hard. Fan is going great . Fronius International 5kw. Just would like a check over one day. Ps Winaco panels 👌

[@mcelectrical]

Fronius fan noise It’s the sound of sunshine on a hot summers morning :)

[@deepwinter77]

Fronius make great welders too.

[@jbehitech]

I have GEN24 for 2 years, the first year without problems, the second every two or three months an error appears (the manufacturer does not know what the error is) and a problem with WiFi as well. With a new modem, the distance is even 5 m. Reset unit everything returns to normal. And adding a 7.1KW battery for 12+ thousand is a rip-off in broad daylight. Apart from that, it is a good inverter, maybe it just happened to me, who knows?🤣

[@marktiller1383]

My Fronius has been working faultlessly for 7 years, hopefully it doesn't go wrong now I've said that.

[@mcelectrical]

If your solar company is a Fronius Solutions Partners Plus, you'll have a 10-year warranty on labour and parts. More on that here: mcelectrical.com.au/why-fronius-solutions-partners-plus-matters-fsp/

[@JohnSmith-lw2bm]

Mount the inverter out on the rack. Mine is 80 feet away from the house. No fan noise then.

[@drumsonstage]

Why don’t you turn the Fronius on and show us the noise it makes?

[@mcelectrical]

Good idea! I might do that as a short.

[@laurencejenner1127]

Well not its software. My Fronius monitoring system disconnects itself from my router at least once a week. Lots of complaints about this online. The app is ok but others are still better. The inverter hardware seems solid 1 year in.

[@24u684]

I had this problem and tried many fixes including assigning a static IP address at the modem. I run a TP Link Mesh system (X68). I have my Gen24 mounted outside on a car port wall. When I placed a mesh node directly opposite on the inside double brick wall this fix the issue totally, will even reset link with power failure. The inverter does need a very strong WiFi signal, this maybe caused by overlapping WiFi channels.

[@darrenjones2738]

Yes. the app is very slow. Then you have to buy a consumption monitor and then your expected to pay a subscription to view more than 3 days of its history. Especially when you never use to need a subscription to get it on the old app. Which was a better app

[@markcavanagh]

Yeh, I was talking with rod about this last week. He is personally working on it. Apparently many of the issues were solved with a firmware update. We don’t seem to have many issues but there are real issues and it’s sporadic.

[@jaimeb5550]

A friend of mine noticed it straight away, the inverter drops DHCP address, not sure why. Assigning a static address stopped it dropping. He has granular monitoring with Home Assistant, ever since static was assigned its been ok. I don't monitor mine as close as he does so I haven't noticed :)...

[@Zoltan1996]

Deye buy deye is half the price on battery and dont pay extra subscription on your smart meter to show you data😅😅

[@sparkytas]

Fronius have some weird lacking features: lack of MPPT inputs - 10kw 3 phase only allows 2 strings on MPPT 1, but only 1 string on MPPT 2 - that's just stupid. It also doesn't offer a 3 MPPT single phase 10kw model, which is limited if you want East, North and West arrays or have complex rooves. So many of my customers have been forced to choose alternate brands because the lack of MPPT options.

[@mcelectrical]

Thanks Markus, interesting comment. Here’s my take… The idea for a need for 3mppt’s is a bit misguided. Here is my old explanation. mcelectrical.com.au/solar-panel-design-north-east-west/ I’ve tested this setup with goodwe 3 mppt vs fronius with uneven shade on the parallel. Fronius works better just because of its mppt algorithm. Fromius are adamant that 3mppts just cause inefficiencies and expense. I tend to agree. You are right that there are some theoretical limitations. That’s why I tested the 3 mppt on goodwe v fromius. In reality, we have never had the need to opt for goodwe rather than a 2 mppt fronius. Quality build and quality mppt algorithms trump an extra mppt.

[@sparkytas]

​@@mcelectrical Yeah, but if you have 3 strings of unequal panels (different VOCs) then you can't double them up on the same MPPT. I'm not talking about shading. The last job that the customer, who really wanted to roll with Fronius (and my father was Austrian so I have a soft spot for Austrian products), had a North West deck roof with 8 degrees tilt, 8x 500W Longi, North East house roof 22 degrees tilt, 7x 500W Longi panels and North West house roof, 22 degrees tilt, 8x 250W panels. House only has single phase and customer wanted as close to 10kW as they could get. How could you maximise this with a Fronius? The roof has zero shading! Would you drop the deck roof to 7x panels and put the 2x strings with 7x 500w on MPPT 1? Or am I wrong?

[@JW_93]

Should have asked the question why a premium expensive brand offers such a poor warranty on products "designed for 30 years service". 5+5 needs to go and Fronius needs to catch up with the rest of the industry and offer a full 10yr warranty along with 3MPPT inverters.

[@markcavanagh]

I roughly covered 3mppt inverters. But in short I think it is such a niche product it’s not realistically worth it. As far as warranty goes, Fronius originally set the bar too high with 5+5. Every other manufacturer had to do one better. Fronius are more responsible than to chase crazy long warranties.

[@albertsmart1221]

I would still buy a Toyota with a 3 year warranty over a Hyundai with a 10 year warranty. The old European inverter brands have proven reliability.

[@twinrotors]

@@markcavanaghcan you do an in-depth video about GEN24 and BYD battery? Particular how it’s works, what it looks like in the app, can you sell to the grid, how to manage the battery. I liked your video about the BYD battery options.

[@markcavanagh]

Hi @@twinrotors . There are improvements coming to the gen24 app interface for Byd. When that comes out I plan to do a video along the lines you mentioned.

[@Zoltan1996]

Deye buy deye is half the price on battery and dont pay extra subscription on your smart meter to show you data😅😅

[@rvecranges]

It'll be interesting when the PowerWall 3 comes out with the built in inverter & battery? Then the Fronius vs Tesla PW3 war will begin.

[@markcavanagh]

I hope the Tesla inverter is as good as their battery. Actually I can’t imagine that it will be that good, but I’m hopeful.

[@Ressy66]

This is why MCE never call prospective customers back, they are too busy making youtube videos... of course the "we'll call you within one business day" might be one business day after they finalise their socials videos

[@markcavanagh]

Hmm, that’s disappointing. I’d be keen to hear more details. We are in a transitional stage with our “first on call” at the moment. But that’s no excuse.

[@mikeroberts786]

I sent a request through for information on my way to coffee. I received two phone calls while at coffee. By the time I got home I had a detailed estimate in my email. The service was professional, friendly, knowledgeable and based on my needs. First class all round.

[@Ressy66]

@@mikeroberts786 your lucky.... I sent a msg on Wednesday 25/10 around middle of day, I got an Email of all things at 10am 26/10 telling me someone will call within a day (really? took the time to email me to tell me theyll call, rather than just calling there and then) , its now 12/11 and I've still not had that call, probably because I needed a service call (to check our 10yo-ish panels as I suspect they are not performing) rather than an install job worth 10K... I gave them a full week to get back to me before I moved on and called someone else.

[@Ressy66]

@@markcavanagh details in my previous comment to Mike Roberts, you've lost us, but maybe you can address the issue with your staff to prevent other losses in the future.

[@markcavanagh]

@@Ressy66 ok thanks for the feedback.

[@Zoltan1996]

Deye buy deye is half the price on battery and dont pay extra subscription on your smart meter to show you data😅😅

[@alexk6745]

It is not better! It is junk just because design was made so poor. I'm speaking about 3phase Fronius. It requires exactly 3 phases, while in theory it could work only having one phase and the rest could be taken from solar if not enough or solar not stable. Why on earth you would want do an expensive 3 phase upgrade when you actually need less dependence on the grid? If it can work full backup when no grid power then I have a question why on earth I would need to connect it to all 3 phases? Why it can't just work of one phase? This makes no sense as upgrade to 3 phases cost more then the cost of the 3 phase inverter 10kWh. This is so stupid. I was thinking I found a good one, but this was a show stopper for me and I have to start looking for something else. What a disappointment.