What Makes Them Tick? Understanding Borderline and Narcissistic Personality Disorders

[@Avaaaw]

I’m not saying this because I have BPD, but what distinguishes BPD from NPD is that narcissists want to hurt others. People with bpd overreact because they are hurt and are in utter pain. Their rage is mainly because they don’t know how to regulate their emotions. But, to be fair, how can anyone regulate the psychological equivalent of an open and infected wound?

[@DrBuffaloBalls]

To say that BPD individuals don't want to hurt others isn't always true, a bad BPD episode can absolutely lead to a person with BPD purposefully hurting another person. Both of these conditions are very harmful when untreated. No diagnosis in this world absolves consequence and responsibility for your words and actions.

[@thereisnosanctuary6184]

This pans out. I just think some Narcs truly do want to be loved but return hate instead. And some Borderlines can become so painful, that serving pain to others is pleasurable. I have never committed murder, but I know I am capable of it.

[@AssumptionEmpty]

@@thereisnosanctuary6184 That's not BPD or NPD. Return hate is ASPD trait.

[@bogdanlazar3278]

What makes sense to me is that with NPD is about performance and hierarchies, feeling very afraid of being inferior, claiming to be superior. They have a set of values, traits about performance that are important, being intelligent, successful, good looking etc. Based on these traits, they compare themselves to others and they always have to be on top, with something, at least. They try to assign roles to everyone, based on these values: "This guy is more successful, but not as smart, that woman is a 9, but dumb" etc. They may admire or despise others, but relationships are always like a chart. Every living being, including themselves, are rows in an Excel sheet. If everything goes according to plan and everyone fits into their assigned roles, everything will be fine... The narcissist will never care for you, but won't harm you either. When someone doesn't fit into the "role", though, for some reason, that may become a threat. For instance, he finds out the "dumb babe" at work has a PHD in physics and is actually quite intelligent. That may trigger shame, leading to anxiety and rage. He might yell at you for not doing the dishes, when, in fact, he's upset about the dumb babe having a PHD. With BPD, on the other hand, the extremes manifest based on subjective view of ourselves, our emotions, pain, joy, how kind or how evil we are. With BPD, again, there's a split, but based on these values... being an angel or a demon. If you're an angel, everyone that doesn't behave like you must be a demon. Any perceived misbehavior may be a powerful trigger. "Did you see the way she looked at me? She's an asshole! She only cares about herself! I care soo much about how others feel, while she doesn't give a f...". If you see yourself as a demon, again... everything everyone does must be good, or at least not as bad as the things you did. You "have" to tolerate everything, because... how could you not? You're the monster... When you endure all kinds of bad behaviors, or just not paying attention to your needs, eventually you'll collapse and switch: "Remember! I'm the monster! Yet... these people somehow are worse! They're worse than monsters!". All hell may break loose then.

[@Camposdarko]

They definitely do hurt others on purpose , and they feel joy when they see the person hurt also

[@AssumptionEmpty]

I am quiet BPD with heavy overlap into covert NPD. They are not so different at all. BPD and NPD are different solutions to the same problem. All cluster B is developmental trauma disorder. We were rejected for who we truly were. NPD is fully false self and therefore a lot more stable, while BPD is caught in constant battle between true self and false self, that is why we are so unstable. My NPD is making sure I can keep up appearances long enough to fall apart when in private (completely alone). My mother is borderline. Father is narcissistic. I'm the very best of both worlds. By all accounts I have a good life even by neurotypical standards becasue I am wickedly inteligent, but I know exactly who I am. It's sad and miserable existance. Essentially, borderline is a failed narcissist.

[@bogdanlazar3278]

Heeey! I understand, to a certain extent. You are doing great, seeing yourself. No matter what, you are just another "variant" of a human being. I have traits as-well. From what I've observed, NPD is based on performance, stupid/intelligent etc., while with BPD, it's about being good/evil. With both, there is no reconciliation, there is no middle ground. Another thing I've noticed is that each of the four possible states "cancels" the other. You cannot feel guilty, like a monster, in this extreme state, and care so much on weather you're good at math or not. When you focus on your brilliant mind, you don't care about how much you harm or love others. In my case, I focus more on the good/evil side. I don't know if this makes sense or is so... but for me it's better, the emotional side of things. In any case, I do hope you are better. Maybe your struggle will always be a part of you, to a certain extent, but maybe it's ok this way. You are always allowed to just be... I don't know... Your body is important, your feelings, your experiences. You can do less evil, if you want to, you are allowed to love. If you do great things, you also help others, while if you fail, you're just like everyone else, in the sense that we all fail at certain things. Thank you for your message :)

[@user-us4op1jw3w]

I think that BPD and NPD actually have the same core content. Only people with NPD managed to cover it up with creating a false sense of self which helped them stay in relationship with their caregivers.

[@DrDanielFox]

Interesting perspective. They are distinct and it's interesting that many people see them so similar or the same. Thanks for sharing

[@Lordinventar]

@@DrDanielFox people say npd switch from grandiose to vulnerable and back i guess the vulnerable side is very simular to bdp not the grandiose also i know women that present with bpd traits but also like to be admired by multiple man and have backup plans and afairs that seems narcissistic to me i mean is this typical for bpd too?

[@wendyleeconnelly2939]

@@DrDanielFox I wonder if the similarity people see actually has more to do with co-occurrence rather than the actual disorders overlapping so much.

[@wendyleeconnelly2939]

It's probably co-occurrence, not that the two disorders are less than distinct. Also what you are describing might be some histrionic traits as well.

[@Fika_time]

I’ve been following your channel for about 4-5yrs. Started when I was in graduate school for my MSW. I really appreciate your explanation and teaching on here. It is evident you are an expert and knowledgeable in the area of personality! Love your content!

[@DrDanielFox]

Thank you so much for your support and kind words!

[@KimNeal0671]

I really love how you explained the bpd entitlement piece. I could never understand some of those behaviors I have and this explains it well. It makes a lot of sense that I have been mistaking that need. I’m assuming getting it fulfilled another way will reduce/stop these impulsive reactions? Definitely something I will bring up in therapy. Thank you for the insight!

[@DrDanielFox]

I’m glad you found this videos helpful. Be well.

[@AliceLytle]

Excellent help! Thank you! I see a lot of narcissism and/or narcissistic personality disorder without borderline personality disorder too. But rarely see BPD without NPD.

[@r.thomas9478]

Wrong. Grandiosity is a core feature of all cluster B personality disorders, whether it's NPD, BPD, Histrionic or APD. It's not the same as fullblown NPD which most people diagnosed with BPD do not have.

[@----79821]

@@r.thomas9478 I can tell you for myself having been diagnosed with BPD there is definitely no grandiosity... perfectionism yes in the sense of i've always had black and white thinking so need to appear perfect as if im not perfect i am absolutely nothing but it isn't in the sense of im better/superior/above others, I'ts wanting to appear as if I'm a stable, confident, intelligent human (in my eyes what normal is).. also in regards to flaws i wish i'd never felt flawless even tho that's not healthy I've felt so flawed my whole life feeling flawless sounds like a nice reprieve for a day!... as for being noticed yes i do but i just want to be seen as "normal" because i feel so abnormal as in below/worthless/broken, in no way do i need to seen as a living legend as someone who's stronger, more intelligent etc etc than others.... also i feel grandiosity would imply you deserve to be rewarded/entitled to more than others, all i've ever wanted my whole life is for any sort of deal/workplace thing/friendship to be equal I do not want/desire more than anyone else in any setting..... as for special treatment no but it took a longggg time to realise i was demanding special treatment because I felt so different from others and the world around me, not that i deserve special treatment because i was superior/better than others but because i was so low/worthless/damaged than others and as i said it took a longggg time to realise i was being manipulative the thing was it was not intentional, NPD folk plot and plan to have a desired outcome, for me with BPD the thought of being intentionally manipulative and lying etc to get what i want at the expense of another makes me sick, but that's what i was doing by demanding unintentionally special treatment............ i could go on and on but that last point about conscious premeditated intention is something you really need to understand in the differences between BPD and NPD and one of the few ways i am able to differentiate myself even tho i have many NPD traits and behaviours, i know my core being.....as Dr Fox says confusion is a big factor it's 24/7 for me for decades i was just confused about everything and everyone including myself, confusion was a great source of my anger as imagine getting negative/detrimental results for literally 3+ decades and not being able to understand why...... one last point is NPD people don't value relationships they value things and achievements so therapy for NPD means going after something they don't want (bonding,connection) by giving up something they do want (praise, money, positions of power etc)... no one on earth gives up what you can get and do want for something they don't want, for BPD therapy can be effective as you are giving up maladaptive coping mechanisms to get what you truly want which is bonding/connection/love

[@snowredsnow666]

Oeh ty for sharing this! ​@@r.thomas9478

[@Lordinventar]

@@r.thomas9478 really? i often hear that 40% of people diagnosed with bpd also qualify for npd diagnosis

[@user-wj7lp7ok1l]

Very helpful - they are desperate to feel better and in doing those behaviors they leave a wake of damage to everything and one they care about behind.

[@DrDanielFox]

I'm glad you found the video helpful!

[@mrmoveandspeak558]

Dr Fox, you must be a psychic! I was searching for a video like this. Thank you for making quality content

[@DrDanielFox]

Glad you liked it!

[@username9577]

There is some empathy, but your own issues come before others. You can use cold empathy and ask questions about what is going on with the other person. I don't have the "alone" trait as much. I can't tell if I'm a Passive Aggressive or Vulnerable Narcissist.

[@KatBlack07]

Thank you Doctor Fox for all your help on these disorders. I would love to see a video about NPD vs BPD rage. When to be worried, and possible strategies, while they are in this state of rage to calm things down.

[@DrDanielFox]

You’re welcome.

[@gamergirlmars]

i'd like aspd vs bpd and/or aspd vs npd , aspd vs. hpd :)

[@KatBlack07]

@@gamergirlmarsThe raging is the most brutal part of the disorders. We really need good coping skills and strategies.

[@gamergirlmars]

Yeah for sure! I am not an emotionless robot with no feelings. But I do usually only feel extremes of anger. I also have ADHD and ASD and while I'm only factor 2 ASPD I do think I kind of lean towards more a non-specified cluster b with some traits running all the way around. I heard it's common to have concurrent Intermittent Explosive Disorder and I kind of tick all of those boxes. While IDC if I get help for all of this, the people around me really do care if I get help. So depending on the person I am not totally against that work, but I will acknowledge I am not the easiest person to deal with when I'm raging. Or even every day life. I don't totally relate to these bpd videos​ and I feel like the ASPD community is left out of a lot of KZbin channels. Mostly asd, ADHD, autism, npd, BPD. When I am angry + sad + overstimulated + hyperactive my rages are really not the greatest thing. For me or anybody else. At least I've come far enough I can admit that I guess haha@@KatBlack07

[@TheAngellSpeaks]

BEST video! I like how you presented the most common NPD and BPD while outlining the overlapping traits of both behavior patterns.

[@DrDanielFox]

Wow, thank you!

[@LisaLisa001]

Absolute best video. I love exactly how the information was laid out, so easy to process and stay focused on which list I'm on and how that's different. I didn't have to pause and write it down. 10/10 ❤❤❤

[@DrDanielFox]

Awesome, thank you!

[@Treasuredkaleidoscope]

I believe the core manifestation is the same in all cases bpd asd npd hpd just different combinations and overlays. It is an identity disturbance caused from hereditary and environmental factors.

[@zeddeka]

I think that's more or less the view of the famous psychoanalyst, Otto Kernberg. He said that many personality disorders were defence mechanisms against what he called 'Borderline Personality Organisation' (not the same thing as Borderline Personality Disorder).

[@FlowerUruguay]

The main core wound in both personality disorders is disorganized attachment style so it makes sense that they have similarities

[@alphadog3384]

I had a NPD boss, consider this with someone who's on BPD spectrum what a battle that would cause to others? What happens if the NPD, individual gets called out for something that's they have done, will the NPD, individual blame the situation on everyone else rather then taking ownership for the situation. (Not seeing all the situational factors). If l understood correctly the NPD individual will also push others away to regain control of the situation. Great break down of patterns two types of personalities.

[@johnmcmillan59]

In 45 years of employment I only had one boss who was not narcissistic.

[@username9577]

Yes! This happens!

[@endorfin_1]

@DrDanielFox I’m wondering if much of the maladaptive behavior with BPD, ADHD and PTSD is related to the person living in their Default Mode Network. When I see self-destructive, maladaptive behavior from a loved one, it seems to come with no thought process and no awareness of consequences. It’s like I’m interacting directly with his DMN. Once self-regulation returns, we can communicate again.

[@DrDanielFox]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and observations, it's always insightful to hear different perspectives.

[@Star-dj1kw]

✅ good video

[@DrDanielFox]

I'm so glad this video was helpful for you. I wish you well.

[@IamHisHeismine]

Do you have any information on how to undo the way someone might’ve affected your mind and the type of abuse that can occur from a narcissistic person who has accused you of having borderline personality disorder just because you became a disregulated wreck of a person after the way they have abused you? Even any expression of emotion was pathologies and pain some disorder. This is really done a number on me and it’s hard to convince yourself and people that you don’t have a disorder that you’ve been accused of when you were a mess and you’re still not OK and working through what they did to you. This has been like a horrible and invested maze unraveling to get out of. The person I dated is high on that narcissistic scale and because I care about them, I don’t really want to admit they have this disorder online and these disorders started to say that I had that and that I was doing all these things I wasn’t doing. Like are you able to help me? I’m feeling like the only person in the world that believes me.

[@DrDanielFox]

It sounds like you’re going through a really tough time, and I want you to know that you're not alone. Seeking professional help from a therapist can be a great step toward healing and understanding what you've experienced. Remember, it's okay to express your feelings and seek support!

[@YouilAushana]

0:42 - I totally have change in affect and feelings towards everything that is in a level behind my "wall". 5:01 - like a politician they always speaking or thinking of competing and or taking you out.

[@zentzu4003]

i think i have bpd but i’ve noticed looking back that at times i’ve exhibited manipulation, and specifically one of my exes (who was a adult actress may i add, i didnt want that) would always go for abusive guys, like all her exes were abusive, beat her etc, which is always made me think why on earth was she attracted to me?, wasn’t until recently that i met up with her again and i noticed that i do actually have a tendency to be manipulative in more subtle ways, i remember the first time i ever met her, that night i self harmed and preceded to send her the photos of my self harm… why on earth it didn’t cross my mind that that’s not only a weird thing to do but could also put alot of pressure on her… but i didn’t self harm with the intention of manipulation, i self harmed because i was in emotional pain, that emptiness

[@----79821]

Great video with some insights I've always felt about myself having been diagnosed with BPD but rarely see discussed in this manner, its brutal learning how dysfunctional you are but it all helps to overcome it.... I'm still so intrigued by the biological aspect of these conditions i feel i would have always had this condition.... in my eyes it has to be due the over and undevelopment of certain part of the prefrontal cortex as neurotypical people go through the same trials and tribulations and develop a healthy sense of self and therefore healthy coping mechanisms. I would love to hear your thoughts on this based on what studies you have come across.

[@DrDanielFox]

Thanks 😊

[@SUPAJ568]

Thank you so much for making these videos I really needed this one I was starting to think I might be a narcissist lol nope just bpd 😂 ❤

[@DrDanielFox]

You are so welcome

[@azdbuk]

Man these small videos are enlightening.

[@DrDanielFox]

I'm so glad this video was helpful for you. I wish you well.

[@SavageCristin]

I am recently diagnosed bpd..my partner is undiagnosed but NPD fits like a glove...I dont know how to deal.

[@johngilmore697]

"partner is undiagnosed but NPD" then get the fuck away from them.

[@EverythingLvl]

Npd parent created my bpd. I think you're running the program.

[@DrBuffaloBalls]

End that relationship. My relationship just ended, in which my SO had untreated BPD, and I've come to realize that I probably have NPD. That combination is not built to last, so get out before you get hurt.

[@reneegardner2286]

There's no way of dealing with abuse. Stay and be their doormat or get a divorce very secretively of course

[@helicoptermann1-o5x]

I would love to hear your thoughts on how to deal with anger episodes after receiving a diagnosis of BPD.

[@DrDanielFox]

I have several videos on anger you might find helpful.

[@snowredsnow666]

Very clear great vid ty 🩷

[@DrDanielFox]

Glad you liked it!

[@billr8276]

I am the child of two alcoholic parents and in '87 started to do therapy and self improvement to improve my life and that of those around me. Some years ago, a woman came into my environment who has a lot of NPD/BPD attributes and she is a "single mother", no male guiding influence for the child. I see this woman is absolutely destroying her child's life, while doing nothing illegal. Is there any way I can help this child other than just praying for her?

[@MT-sw8rf]

@billr8276 yes, you can help - RUN !! Run, before your co-dependency kicks in! Report to social services what you've seen, but cut off every connection to her immediately! Do you even have an idea how many such parents there are outside? MANY! You cannot save all these children and your question shows one thing only - you are a co-dependent! It's none of your business to sort out other people - sort out yourself first!

[@pukupuku]

@@MT-sw8rf Triggered!

[@billr8276]

@@MT-sw8rf Thanks for the input. I hadn't thought that I could be codependent. I shall research that with a focus on me.

[@shereestracke9128]

Thank you 🙏🏻❤

[@DrDanielFox]

You are so welcome

[@thereisnosanctuary6184]

My theory is that high self esteem, "Type A" people become NPDs when they have something to be ashamed of or don't feel the joys they could have. They have a "What If" missed world they are trying to recreate.

[@amberinthemist7912]

The msin difference is that someone with bpd will endlessly apologize to you while crying about their traumatic past in order to coerce you into staying over and over again. They won't ever stop using and abusing you just like npd but they will be fake sorry a lot. Both types of people still view you as a resource to be owned and controlled for their benefit, the person with bpd will just make you feel sorry for them while they do it.

[@mspence0826]

What vulnerable narcissism? Different presentation than grandiose. Not so flashy.

[@chilloften]

They are seriously interesting. 😆

[@DrDanielFox]

Thanks

[@user-kv9gs8kb6m]

I'm just curious on which exact personality disorder or traits has online KZbin psychologists display their viewers award on the wall in order to give more professional credibility and implied competence. Similarities to the ones that display all their professional degree's. Is the Covert Grandiose NPD or just a Trait?

[@ramonaharter6407]

None of them they're just displaying their accomplishments

[@MaryCaroline-qt2fz]

​@@ramonaharter6407Correct. And their credentials.

[@user-kv9gs8kb6m]

@@ramonaharter6407 I find it ridiculous that a KZbin award for social media platforms viewed is an accomplishment. It's a disgusting disgrace for a legitimate profession. In short, Clout chasing.

[@----79821]

@@user-kv9gs8kb6m It's just the world we live in, if you didn't have a website and no social media presence and only listed yourself in the phone book (which are obsolete anyways) you would go broke, displaying credentials in regards to mental health providers is a good thing in my eyes as there are so many people that jump on social media and speak as if they have achieved formal education and training...At the end of the day this guy is a professional with a real degree and wants to build a business and help people so no harm in displaying his KZbin award.

[@amirat8162]

Thank you