What Nikon Discontinuing the DSLR Means For Film Photographers | TOC Xtra Episode 14

[@billpickle2875]

Don't forget u can still get the reasonably priced leica mp brand new with a 50mm 1.4 lens for only 20k 😃

[@slr7075]

Actually for me, mirrorless cameras introduced me to film photography because I was looking for vintage lenses to adapt onto my mirrorless camera. A lot of these old lenses came with a film body so I decided to give it a go too. I use both mirrorless and film and rotate between the two as they take the same lenses, which is great.

[@otm646]

This is exactly how I got started again. I picked up a bargain EM5 and some Rokkor glass on a budget. Saw a clean X 370 body on ebay for $20 and took the risk. Now I spend more time shooting BW than the mirrorless. Most the time it's set up on the stand for neg scanning honestly.

[@otm646]

Digital focus peaking on manual glass is an incredible asset. That's substantially more acuity than you could ever have with your eye previously. Setting up the scene is what your other eye not looking through a view finder is for. Mirrorless is the savior. It gets people into vintage glass, old functional (35mm) bodies are cheap.

[@tobinsphotovideo]

Cell phone cameras are killing all traditional style cameras in general at least for the basic consumer. Mirrorless doesn't really threaten film photography because their will always be a powerful nostalgia for shooting on film. However, what mirrorless truly threatens is DSLRs. And I dont see people getting nostalgic for shooting on DSLRs much like I dont see folks very nostalgic for VHS or going back to Windows 95. But no I believe cell phone cameras are killing the camera consumer market all around.

[@jdebultra]

$24 dollars for a roll of 35mm slide film is very troubling. The price of film is going to snap it's neck.

[@AzrielKnight]

Very true.

[@valurautakattila]

there is a momentary sigh of relief because some people have managed to get fresh 35mm motion picture Ektachrome (possibly unused leftover stock from Euphoria) from Kodak and are hand rolling them and selling them for 10 bucks cheaper.

[@billpickle2875]

I haven't shot for a couple of years and have been keen to get back out. I honestly can't believe the price of a roll of tri x or even cheaper fuji or kodak stocks these days. Unreal and sad. I haven't checked the price of 4x5 yet

[@mattboggs6304]

Yes, that and paying $6 per roll for developing (no prints, no scan) killed it for me. But I was doing it for a bit of fun and nostalgia on top of my serious digital work, so take that into account.

[@CalumetVideo]

I agree. I don’t shoot as much 35mm anymore. I do use medium format and large format and think that’s where the value and advantage are with the bigger negatives.

[@1989Goodspeed]

Grate video and good pointe made! Got into film photography in about 2015 and I payed over-prises for equipment back then… but when I look up some E-Bay listings today I start to feel bad about the overinflated prises some cameras and lenses go for today, and with Nikon abandoning the F-mount and DSLR´s it is a bit of a blow. But maybe the F-mounf will become some sort of DIY / “intrepid” like solution with small company adaptation… one can wish.

[@AzrielKnight]

Fingers crossed.

[@thumperjdm]

Love your channel Azriel. I've been trying to get back into 35mm (and photography in general--just a hobbyist.) Nikon F4's are still a steal, and F5's aren't too bad either...so far. I recently picked up an F3, F4, F5, and I'm putting film through them now, making sure they're all working well. I'm building my collection now, before the availability dries up, and prices go insane.

[@AzrielKnight]

Congrats. I hope it goes well for you. I haven't shot with the f4 or f5 but the f5 is way too big for me. F3 is a solid choice.

[@CalumetVideo]

Great point. Yes, I have really started to assess which analog cameras that I will keep. I basically use the F2 for its mechanical build and a F3 and F5 even though electronic when I need better metering for slides. In medium format, I use the Rolleiflex a mechanical camera that can still be serviced, and a Bronica SQ which, if it’s electronic body and shutter fails, it can be replaced rather cheap. I think the best investment in analogue is in large format, many cameras are being made new, film is available, great to slow down with film and you can even add a instax wide back and a roll film holder. While they are a very slowed down and methodical process, large format does give a lot of options.

[@AzrielKnight]

Thanks for the comment :) I know many people adopt film so they can slow down as you say....I'm not one of them so large format sounds like a tedious and expensive nightmare to me.

[@NPJensen]

As far as professional 35mm cameras, the Leica M-A is still pretty new and the MP is also still for sale at Leica stores. Of course the prices are downright painful, but that's just Leica being Leica. It is also possible to pick up a Nikon S3 limited edition or Nikon SP limited edition brand new, if you have that kind of money, and are after a camera designed more than 50 years ago. I do get your point though - and I'm acting accordingly, when it comes to film cameras.

[@AzrielKnight]

You make a lot of good points. I don't think any of the cameras you mentioned are SLRs though.

[@RobertLeeAtYT]

The transition from DSLR to FF mirrorless contributes also to drying up access to vintage lenses and driving up prices. Adapting lenses cross makes really wasn't possible with DSLR. WIth mirrorless, suddenly all 135 format lenses made over the past century are now essentially universally usable on current bodies, at the as designed focal length and with the cost of a $20 mechanical adapter. What's more, these old lenses are actually now easier to use than on the bodies for which they were designed. Focus peaking means being able to focus stopped down. Magnification makes critical focus much easier on the old fast primes.

[@AzrielKnight]

All good points. Thanks Robert

[@marcelocampoamor4761]

The remaining stocks of analog equipment are sufficient for the next 50 years (and more) in both quantity and diversity since they were built to last. The main problem, I believe, is not the lack of new lenses or the development of new lenses for SRLs, but the lack of film and its development, as well as the increase in prices that will be inevitable because, although there are still many who use film and more have been added in recent years the numbers are not enough to keep development and production costs at a reasonable level. Another problem will be the cost of chemicals and the lack of laboratories and developing places for color negatives.

[@arcanics1971]

I keep hoping that somebody is going to start making new analogue cameras. I don't mean just point and shoots that are cheap and cheerful, but an SLR that's based on old tech, but made new. The problem is it would be very expensive and could only really approach the realm of being reasonably priced if the maker was pretty big to start with and making a lot of them. And that's a hell of a risk. But the film market keeps growing so I can't quite shake this hope off. I know, it's probably not going to happen. But... I do really wish it would.

[@graemelever-naylor6721]

Arcanics1971: problem solved. Someone in China is planning to make a Lego film camera.(Good grief!)

[@AzrielKnight]

It's conceivable that 3D printers will get to the point of making the fine mechanics needed. Seems pretty far off though.

[@toomanynegatives]

Canon r6 for work (real estate) film for all my prints and personal stuff and a xpro 3 as my fun digital camera. Everything has its place.

[@50mmnikonainikkor55]

It's all different and that's how you should always treat each. Love Nikon DSLRs and slowly but surely falling in love with what Pentax is doing.

[@ganzonomy]

Have more 35mm and x20 cameras then I care to admit. Film prices at the little store near me are $25 for a roll of 36 by Kodak. And then people ask me why I don't shoot as much. Film prices are killing things for film just as much as Nikon not having DSLR is killing DSLR. I'll be shooting the medalist soon, but film photography is seriously becoming a rich person's game.

[@acmdv]

Lenses tend to last a lot longer than cameras so I don't see there being any immediate problems mainly because there are millions of lenses out there plus both Nikon & Canon offer adapters for their mirrorless cameras & still service DSLR lenses. The first sign of when things will get worse will be when they stop making DSLR lenses because at the moment both Nikon & Canon are still making DSLR lenses even thought they have stopped developing new ones & have stopped making certain models (this is also true with 3rd party manufacturers such as Tamron & Sigma). When they stop making adapters & servicing their DSLR lenses thats when you should get worried because that will then really push up prices. I suspect it's more likely the supply of film cameras that use these lenses may fall away first.

[@AzrielKnight]

You make some good points. I don't think the supply is the issue as much as the cost. We've seen a celebrity endorsement or popular video is all it takes to hike the price. As long as Nikon and other companies make any given lens, they set the price. Once you can't buy that lens anymore, resellers and the public set the price. My Nikon D780 with kit lens is $400 more on Amazon than it was a year ago when I bought it.

[@acmdv]

@@AzrielKnight Your D780 costs more now has more to do with the world wide chip shortages & rising costs than anything else. You only have to look at the used camera market to see prices staying high because new cameras are harder to get so used ones are holding their value for much longer than they otherwise would.

[@map3384]

Brother I bought a Nikon Z6 back in June. I saw the end of DSLR cameras coming with the introduction of mirrorless bodies. I haven’t bought a Z lens but bought an adapter to use my old manual focus F lenses. The computer aided stop down and auto ISO makes the camera a winner. It’s perfect every time. But there’s no mystery involved like shooting film. So I do believe film will continue for as long as the tens of millions of film cameras continue to operate.

[@piterb.5444]

I think magazines are getting wrong only based on the way modern cameras still work, global shutter is still reserved to 3 Cameras in the market today. One from Sony, one Nikon and one from Canon. The reality is that the only digital modern camera that doesn’t have a mechanical shutter is Nikon’s Z9. Now you can see how much some people writing for certain magazines have no idea what they are writing about (technical subject).

[@erikehrling4715]

I agree 100% with your analysis. The death of the DSLR probably is more negative news for film shooters than for users of DSLRs. The mirrorless cameras today are so good that buying one as an upgrade once your DSLR dies should work for most people. Film cameras have been dying for two decades now. The number of working cameras out there will inevitably decline. In another ten years it might not be possible to buy fresh color film any more. Is this the end of the world? Not at all - but I think now is the time to embrace what is a disappearing beauty. Shoot film while you can. As you long as you have working analogue cameras and as long as you can find and afford buying film. Love shooting film because it will not last forever!

[@goldenhourkodak]

Huh? Color film production has been ramped up to the max due to the massive increase in demand in the last few years. It's not going anywhere. Kodak has invested in making sure they can meet the demand and even brought back Kodak Gold in 120. We also have two other companies (Adox and one other I am forgetting) working on making new colour films. Your comments made sense in 2012 or even 2015, but now, film looks like it's here to stay.

[@---us7qf]

True, the lenses are becoming harder and harder to find. I bought the Nikon S3 Year 2000 Limited Edition (brand new), with the 50mm. I want to get a wider 25ish mm before they all disappear

[@btrdangerdan2010]

Good to see you again Azriel! It's been a "minute"!

[@AzrielKnight]

Thanks! I have a few videos out. Did you miss them? I have a newsletter that I release once a month with a full list, that might help for next time :)

[@btrdangerdan2010]

@@AzrielKnight thx for the info. I updated my profile and username too if that helps lol

[@ЕвгенийТуманов-т4ч]

F-mount lenses can possibly become significantly cheaper in the future. Nikon will develop full line of professional z-mount fx lenses and there will be a lot of g and d-type lenses that pros will get rid of. Another point is that death of DSLRs means death of the most convenient way to use manual focus nikkors, just because with mirrorless you have neither ai-ring for aperture priority, nor micro prism or split focusers.

[@ytr8989]

Fujifilm has this. And has both the digital split image and digital micro prism options. And you’ll never need to calibrate your Fuji

[@tomislavmiletic_]

Yep, you are right. I'm buying old film gear left and right like crazy, course I know that in a year or two it will cost a fortune. Not that I'm thinking of taking advantage of that (all do it did cross my mind), but to ensure I'll have enough analog equipment till I drop dead, without the need of selling my liver and or kidney in the process to be able to afford that...

[@AzrielKnight]

I've been taking the minimalism approach for the last couple years but maybe I should stock up on a few extras with how everything is going.

[@CalumetVideo]

@@AzrielKnight same here. I used to have a lot of gear, I have enough and take it in stride, a day at a time. Just don’t want to end up with a closet full of working gear in 20 years with no film and all that money invested.

[@sonicmistress]

And here we are a year later and ebay is still full of cheap old film junk, don't believe the hype...YT is no better than the trash media for spreading shite....

[@christianmayrhofer4178]

That's why i love the Canon EOS system. I can use all EF lenses from today back to 1987 on any Canon SLR - without restriction! - no matter if analogue or digital and on my new DSLM Canon EOS RP using an EOS-Rf adapter. I shoot mostly digital and love the EVF, especially for black and white. I shoot analogue sometimes more for nostalgic reasons. But if film prices continue to rise, i will hardly shoot analogue anymore. But you're right, analogue equipment is ageing, there are defects and many things can no longer be repaired. Analogue photography is a sinking ship that only Yuppies will be able to afford at some point. I don't care, i enjoy taking photos, even digitally.

[@graemelever-naylor6721]

I wonder what the tipping point will be when a camera manufacturer sees a market that's big enough for film cameras to be re-introduced. After all, Nikon, Canon and Pentax/Ricoh would probably still have the tooling and parts list for their film cameras so it shouldn't take too much to put a reasonable model back into production once the economies of scale are achieved.

[@AzrielKnight]

I think we can look to vinyl records for that. For the longest time we saw just a bunch of cheap record to mp3 converrters but now you can get some new high end turn tables again. Took decades though.

[@graemelever-naylor6721]

@@AzrielKnight Yes, and in a digital world, analogue still has it's appeal. I wonder at what price point film users would be persuaded to buy a new film slr camera. I think the camera would need to have manual and auto functions and retail for around A$2,000, leaving sufficient gap in price with mirrorless to justify the purchase of film. By the way, the cost of film here is two bottles of average wine, half a case of beer, and probably a lot healthier. One point is that I forgot to include developing in my original costing so it cuts the number of rolls in half. But you pay for film as you need it, not all up front, so the cash flow is reasonable.

[@erikehrling4715]

Nikon and Canon will quickly loose the skills and tooling for making shutters and mirror boxes. Once they stop making DSLRs there is zero probability for a new film SLR from them. Maybe, maybe Pentax could turn into the film SLR player if there is a market large enough for a new film SLR to be profitable.

[@jakewestbrook3214]

This literally comes a few short days after the owner of my local camera shop literally told me the nikon D7000 was the last Nikon DSLR they made that'll actually take and meter old lenses...

[@AzrielKnight]

I'd have to double check but my D780 takes older lenses. Not sure about metering, but it's full frame so it has that advantage.

[@jakewestbrook3214]

@@AzrielKnight Ok... I forgot one detail, that he also mentioned the d7000 was the last crop sensor dslr they made that would take and meter old lenses. also, my d3300 can take old nikon lenses, but I can't meter with them.

[@karl1137]

@@AzrielKnight so does my D7200 and D810. Both camers meter with them too.

[@ldstirling]

As I'm sure you already know, and that others have already mentioned in the comments, Mirrorless cameras have another advantage. It is incredibly easy to adapt vintage lenses to them, sometimes with adapters that cost as little as $10-15 USD. I know you have a Fuji X-E2s and maybe other mirrorless cameras that you use. I personally have both a Fuji X-E2 and X-H1. I have adapters to let me shoot Nikon F, Canon FD, Minolta SR, LTM, and M42 lenses on these mirrorless cameras. While the DSLR is being phased out in favor of mirrorless digital cameras, the ease with which one can adapt vintage lenses to a mirrorless digital body gives new life to these vintage lenses. As more and more of the film cameras succumb to age, neglect, mistreatment, broken electronics, etc, the lenses can live on attached to a mirrorless camera and still provide decades of good use. It's not all bad.

[@CheekmarkT]

It's insane how expensive some of the nicer FD lenses (35 f2 and 55 1.2) have become due to this.

[@ldstirling]

@@CheekmarkT I've got breech-lock versions of the FD 28mm f/2.8, 50mm f/1.4, 135mm f/2.5, and Vivitar Series 1 70-210mm f/3.5. I was lucky enough to buy these before prices really took off. One FD lens I've thought about buying on and off over the last few years is a 2-ring version of the 35-105mm f/3.5.

[@minisla]

Also dslrs now everyone is deciding to switch. I'll hold on to what I have it works for now

[@PASquared]

I don't think you have to worry about F-mount lenses skyrocketing due to a demand by DSLR users. Very rarely (for better or worse) is anyone nostalgic about their DSLR or digital gear. Most digital users are likely to want to upgrade their lenses as lens technology improves. Today's lenses are sharper and better corrected than anything ever made before, thanks to computer calculations. Besides perhaps large format, few people are shooting film to keep up with modern standards for technical image quality.

[@AzrielKnight]

You might be right but what happens when the next generation gets nostalgic about low bit cameras?

[@PASquared]

@@AzrielKnight good news is there were/are probably more F mount lenses than any other lens mount, so I wouldn't worry too much

[@AzrielKnight]

That's a good point :)

[@HistoricBF]

@@AzrielKnight Right! No one ever thinks the "old, outdated" used stuff from their generation would be collectible. In 1978 Cudas & Boss Mustangs were just gas guzzling used cars. I've already seen a slight uptick in early generations of nice, functional point & shoot digital cameras. It only stands to reason that good quality examples of early DSLR technology will be desirable some day. Everything old becomes new again and good quality will always hold a place with collectors.

[@RickMahoney2013]

I had a chance to use a Nikon F 6 a few years ago but it belonged to a friend so I could not keep it.

[@AzrielKnight]

They are way overpriced now :(

[@RickMahoney2013]

@@AzrielKnight well when I got out a few years ago they were about $400.00 and upwards now I see it is about half that I am watching on on flea bay that is $180.00 with free shipping and looks brand new.

[@allys537]

While it certainty won't help the situation, in the end film itself, and the lack of processing will kill film.

[@AzrielKnight]

Technically accurate but what may kill the production of film is the lack of cameras to shoot it with.

[@allys537]

@@AzrielKnight it's funny, I brought this exact same argument up on some groups and I was immediately barraged with "there are 10's of millions film cameras out there"! argument. I was like "yeah but they are all like 20 years and older, even the F6 is like old now, and anything new is cheap, disposable and plastic". I was told I was not understanding the real situation. But I agree, we need, even in small quantities, new well built and solid film cameras, they can be a basic line, beginner, intermediate and advanced and ba able to accept already existing lenses. But we'll probably never see that.

[@sonicmistress]

LOL I can get film develoed in an hour on most high streets in the UK and live 20 mins from Ilfords factory, lack of processing LMAO....

[@sonicmistress]

@@allys537 No we don't when we already have thousands of well built cameras from years ago that were so well made they still work....If you think that any new film camera would be as well made or cheap you really are delusional.

[@CoffeeandPhotographyTalk]

Good vid! You made a statement to the effect of 'if NEW mechanical film cameras were available, you'd be all over it'... I'm not sure about this because the PRICE would definitely give film photographers sticker shock. I WISH there were new film cameras, but having said that, in 2022, I don't know if I could justify the price they would be. Low volume would make these units pretty pricey in my guestimation.... Totally agree that glass will be the coming rare commodity, both Nikon and Canon - lenses that will backward fit film cameras are going to be evaporating.

[@---us7qf]

You don't have to gestimate, just look at the Leica M-A (new), and come down a little from there. You'd definitely be in the correct ball-park. Truly expensive!

[@madnesstothemethod3328]

Right now, there seems to be a glut of second hand gear on the market as people rush to buy the latest and greatest mirrorless wonder camera. The good times won't last. Whatever your Grail camera is, now is the time to buy it.

[@erikehrling4715]

I think the window of opportunity for bargains ended many years ago. As other comments have pointed out most lenses can be adapted to mirrorless so I don't expect lenses to drop in price. For the analogue future we will need to look beyond second hand equipment from the current big players. In the long run newcomers like Intrepid, Chroma, MINT, Alfie will be much more important. Also lets hope Lomography and Leica continue making analogue cameras.

[@karl1137]

Is that why the Mamiya C330 went up in price recently?, lol

[@sonicmistress]

@@erikehrling4715 LOL, out of your cave yet, it's never been a better time to buy SH, what people have found out is most older lenses on mirrorless don't work as well as the bandwagon said, how many adapters have mugs bought to find out it was all bollox and too much like hard work as it meant they had to learn how to use a camera instead of relying on Auto everything, that's not photography, that's commercialism, and there's years of old gear out there, no need to rely on trendy nonsense, Lomography LMAO

[@HistoricBF]

An excellent, thought provoking video. I dont see it being much of an issue for run of the mill stuff. At least not in the near to intermediate future. I think much of what you discuss here can apply to higher quality gear though. Comparatively, cheap stuff will generally always be cheap but higher end quality will always be more in demand and require a little more work to find just what you're looking for. I'm not saying Sigma vs. Leica; I mean kit & general purpose f4.5-5.6 variable zooms will always have a place in a bag, and in the market, but they likely won't ever reach the "gotta have it, where can I find one" status of a nice f2.8 telephoto. You can see that gap broadening virtually anywhere you look today, and I can definitely see that intensifying into the future.

[@paulgough4302]

I would be pretty wary of any camera with electronic components outlasting mechanical ones. My leica iiig is working fine, my century graphic works fine, both 1950s cameras, one of my Nikon F3s has a broken resistor in the film speed dial and wiped out the light meter. And my 5x7 will never die. Mirrorless may be useful but I would posit that a lot of mechanical film cameras are still able to be had relatively inexpensively and film is not all that expensive unless you waste it. Digital gear is in the thousands, plus computers, plus paying for internet etc, scanners, let alone printers and inks and what not. People fixate on the convenience and 'free' thousands of images from digital. Most of these images are rubbish and will not be of any consequence as time passes and I would argue almost none will survive as we have already gone through a number of iterations of digital storage and this will continue. So from my perspective film is affordable, a lot of good mechanical cameras are still affordable, and are reliable, if you're prepared to take a little time and care old mechanicals will likely provide you with a much more reliable and economical route to general image making. Specialist stuff may be different, eg. wildlife, and nobody would argue film is better than mirrorless or digital in this case, but there is a price for it.

[@CalumetVideo]

Absolutely spot on! That has always been my argument. Digital storage has changed probably quite a few times over the past 20 years. Even if you can still try to read the discs or cards, they can often have corrupt files and the image can’t be displayed. I think the best medium is film if one wants a more “long lasting” solution.

[@otm646]

I guarantee you but even your bottom of the barrel mirrorless camera will take more shots in it's lifetime than anything film. A cheap Olympus hits 40,000 shutter count without any issue. Most run to around 200k. Then it's just a shutter replacement.

[@paulgough4302]

@@otm646 To be quite honest, so what. Shutter count is probably the least important aspect of any camera, except for a professional perhaps, and, the equipment they choose a certain level of usage is expected anyway then update. You seem to miss the point, digital storage was the main issue with all the changes and constant updates which you have to bear the cost or losses. Film, tin types, glass plates, etc if stored reasonably have the potential to last centuries and require no new equipment to read them or constant conversion to the latest iteration. As to the cameras, I would say that a normal frequent user type photographer would not wear out a shutter. I have a friend who was a professional who kept one of his F3s as it was his first one and still uses it, he thinks it will see him out, he got it when F3s first came out, so even this electro/mechanical shutter will have lasted much longer than almost all owners of cameras keep them. Digital has its place, obviously superior in most instances for sport, natural history etc. However chemical photography has a feel and a look that is satisfying and most importantly is an artinasal process. If you want everything mediated by only by equipment and someone elses program, then fine, go for it. By the way I have had a few digital camera and they don't like the wet tropics, I can guarantee you!

[@anta40]

True. No effort in making new professional grade 35mm film body, so far. Yes I'm intentionally not mentioning Leica here *cough cough* Seems like we simply have to use whatever is left. Experienced Nikon repairmen are not rare breed, fortunately. If we want new film body, the most obvious choice is... large format. Of course, from 35mm to large format is quite an extreme transition. But hey, Nikon also made large format lenses... :D

[@randallstewart175]

I fully agree that the impact will be the ending of production of lenses which retrofit to film cameras. However, in the universe of bodies and lenses, it will be the bodies which disappear first, as they are naturally subject to wear, tear, and disposal far faster than the lenses which fit them. I'd be more concerned for the survival of the mirrorless camera against the cellphone and its like. While the quality of a cell-photo isn't likely to match that of a dedicated camera, it may not need to The way photos are displayed for the most part these days doesn't require quality. The expectations for photo quality have greatly reduced over the last 20 years, and the trend will probably continue to spiral down to Instagram.

[@michaeltuffin8147]

I still have my eos 300 from 2003, 20d from 2006 and my original 5d and they still work fine.

[@Otokichi786]

I own two "mirrorless cameras," A Canon PowerShot G15 and a Fujifilm X30. (I don't need them new-fangled 24MP snapshot cameras, 12-16MP still does the job.) I started with a Fujifilm E500, then bought a closeout Nikon D40 kit from Radio Shack. Then I bought a just-out-of-fashion Nikon D7000 because digital viewfinders eat up batteries, while optical ones don't. I've seen/had all electronic cameras die, leaving one with an expensive paperweight. So, I'd rather have a "trailing edge" Yashica FX-3 instead of one of those Contax SLRs; Ye Olde FX-3 can be repaired; a dead Contax RTS III, not so much.;)

[@graemelever-naylor6721]

As I read the comments it is interesting to note the complaints about the price of film. In Australia, the price of a Nikon Z7 II (an intermediate mirror less camera) is around A$4,700. You pay for the camera, plus around A$400-450 for a couple of 64GB XQD cards plus A$whatever for the lens(es) you want. Say total investment A$6,000. You pay nothing to record the image so that's you total cost. You can buy a used film camera like a Nikon F100 or F5 for between A$500 and A$800. Let's say you buy two so you have a backup which is required due to age so A$1600. A Nikon 28-105 or 28-200 in good condition is around A$300. Let's say you that and a couple of primes for A$1,000 total. Your total investment is now say $2,600 (and you've got two cameras). Portra 160 is around A$25 so you get 136 rolls before you reach a A$6,000 mirror less investment.

[@AzrielKnight]

You make a good point. I guess it's like the gas vs electric car comparison. while you can buy a cheap used car, an electric one will save money in the long run.

[@graemelever-naylor6721]

@@AzrielKnight Except that in the long run the petrol will not be coming back, but film maybe

[@erikehrling4715]

@@graemelever-naylor6721 Film cameras and petrol cars probably have around the same time frame left to live.

[@graemelever-naylor6721]

@@erikehrling4715 maybe...but maybe not.🙂

[@sonicmistress]

Doesn't work like that though does it, people who use film don't care what it costs, so comparing costs is pointless.

[@keironstoneman6938]

As long as my all mechanical Pentax MX still works until the day I die I couldn't care any less about mirrorless or digital cameras if I tried.

[@erikehrling4715]

Well, in order for film to be produced there has to be demand. And to keep demand up long term there has to be at least a new camera made for every old camera that dies. Simple mathematics. And yes, I like to shoot analogue and will continue to do so as long as there is film and I can afford it. But I truly don't believe there is an analogue resurgence until new advanced film cameras are made and proven profitable.

[@goldenhourkodak]

The film market continues to grow year after year. I do not see it going anywhere anytime soon. Cameras will become more expensive as they break, but that's what mechanical cameras are for. I'll enjoy my EOS 1N while it lasts then I am happy to keep using my F1 and Spotmatic.

[@erikehrling4715]

The point in this video is that as DSLRs are not made anymore the camera industry will quickly loose capability (knowledge, tooling) to produce advanced film camera equipment. As such it is really a tipping point. From here onwards we will only have fewer and fewer working film cameras. And that will not be positive for sales of film, availability of labs etc in the long run. Despite any recent resurgence. Pentax is probably the only company that could potentially produce a film SLR. Question is though if they have the finances and if a new film SLR today would be profitable at all. Nonetheless one could always dream about a Pentax 67III or a Pentax 645NIII...

[@karl1137]

Add a FTn, Fm, Fm2 to that list.

[@freibier]

This is pretty sad, because - like you said - full frame Nikon AF lenses fit both on current Nikon DSLR and older film cameras. Plus, 3rd party companies like Sigma also produce full frame lenses. For example, I have my Sigma Art lenses, which I can use both on my D810 and my film Nikons. If Nikon no longer produces full frame DSLR cameras, there will be also less incentive for Sigma etc. to produce lenses for that format. In the end, the whole "buy one lens, use it from your old Nikon F4 to your current DSLR" thing will break down. Sad times :-( Still, seems like it was a good idea to buy a F6 three years ago :-)

[@AzrielKnight]

Thanks for the comment!

[@erikehrling4715]

Buy as many backups as you can afford and shoot as long as you can... In my eyes more bittersweet than sad.

[@marcp.1752]

No, it's not. Means, for your very own creativity, and especially with B&W film, an SLR is true love. Whileas digital is just the boring thing, more MP, more AF speed, more video features, more everything....for myself, this is hell boring. I take a shot, photoshop the RAW, upload the final JPG online, and then? Get some 100's of likes or not, and what? No emotional attachment, -connection. Digital is boring. And how many of your digital taken photographs would end as canvas prints onto your wall? Well, perhaps

[@AzrielKnight]

As I've said in videos before, if your digital shots are boring you're not trying hard enough. When you said "I take a shot, photoshop the RAW, upload the final JPG online, and then?" my first thought was "go out and shoot more". I guess it depends on what you love? Holding the camera? Using it? Developing Film? If you love developing film, then film makes sense. If you love holding a camera, then using antiques makes sense. But if you want the experience of shooting and getting great shots, digital will gives you more time to do that.

[@henryrogers5500]

I don't understand the point. I have two mirrorless DSLMs and I will never go back to my DSLR. Lately, I've been shooting 35mm film with my Nikon F and six other vintage all-mechanical film SLR cameras. I have all the primes for each that I need, and the cost of film doesn't bother me a bit! Why all the doom and gloom here? Go out and enjoy your photography! I also have adapters for my vintage lenses to attach to my mirrorless cameras.

[@AzrielKnight]

Sorry if this sounds disrespectful but your post seems a little out of touch. Not everyone has the money to just buy everything and be happy. That's the point.

[@henryrogers5500]

@@AzrielKnight Ok. NP

[@erikehrling4715]

It depends on your age. Younger generations will not be able to shoot film their entire life. What is currently out there in terms of equipment will probably stop working 10-20 years from now. Some things sooner, other later.

[@kontraen]

@@erikehrling4715 I still also enjoy shooting with cameras from the 1950s

[@HistoricBF]

@@kontraen That is fantastic! I just made some wonderful images out my c.1920 Kodaks (Brownie & 1A Pocket) and regularly shoot an old Pony & Signet. I love keeping the old stuff alive!

[@tweed0929]

You wouldn't believe the price I paid for my F6 in late 2020...

[@erikehrling4715]

I have two Nikon F6 bodies. We'll see how long they will last. Most worried about the LCD displays over time (and lack of spare parts). I bet the FM3A will last longer, but I like shooting with the F6 more than the FM3A. Possible strategy. Shoot F6 until they die, then switch to FM3A as long as it lasts. Keep fingers crossed that there will be fresh negative color film of decent quality available. If Kodak discontinues Portra 400 fill the freezer...

[@tweed0929]

@@erikehrling4715, nah, I don't enjoy shooting F6 as much as I do with my F5, so most of the time it sits in the storage. Also, I have F Photomic "Apollo" and F2AS. I firmly believe that F2 is the best all-manual camera ever made, including these ridiculously expensive Leica rangefinders. After getting F2AS I stopped caring about FM line, though I had multiple opportunities to buy one. Didn't want to.

[@swansong007]

I agree that film cameras and older lenses are becoming harder to find. IN GOOD CONDITION. ….WHY? Because young wannabes think it’s COOL to put their gear on concrete slabs or rough walls. Scratching and denting their gear and so these idiots are as much to blame for mint and fully working order photographic gear becoming very hard to find these days

[@marsgal42]

(He's going to talk about lenses, isn't he?) Yup.

[@JeffWernerIthacaNY]

Might it be an up-side that as all the film cameras left in the world die one by one, maybe film prices will stop going up? (Because people won’t have cameras to shoot it on), You just have to plan it out so that you’re left standing with one on the few remaining cameras that still work. Oh, but then they’ll stop making film. Doh!! I guess I’ll just enjoy it while it lasts. Nothing lasts forever!

[@AzrielKnight]

I def think more people should shoot black and white with the price of c41 and e6.

[@JeffWernerIthacaNY]

@@AzrielKnight Yeah over here I used to shoot both color and b&w but now it’s mostly Kentmere 400 etc and I’m saving what’s left of my color film in the fridge for big trips. And, whenever I shoot my digital mirrorless camera in high contrast light I’m always very disappointed in the way it handles it.

[@CalumetVideo]

@@AzrielKnight definitely, I mostly shoot black and white foma pan and sometimes Tri-X when I can. I noticed that I am maybe shooting a roll per month now compared to about 3-4 rolls a month about two years ago. I also bulk load Foma and Arista to save a few cents.

[@hoorayforpentax3801]

Ironically, Pentax very recently (in the last few years) put out a reissue of its FA 35mm f/2 lens, complete with aperture ring, albeit with the lens coatings updated. It will probably be the last of its kind. I could shoot that on everything from my analogue MX (serviced in the last few years) to my digital K-1, but I'm swimming in so many lenses already that I can't justify it. The Pentax community generally takes a dim view of the self-proclaimed Pentax fans who scream that the company should go mirrorless. I think Ricoh (which used to be a direct competitor in the pre-AF era, even using the same K mount, and which now owns Pentax) knows that they are a niche market, and attempting to compete in an already-full ecosystem would destroy them. If the online hype proves to be correct, Pentax could through sheer dogged persistence be the last man standing of the SLR manufacturers.

[@buchsg]

Just buy mechanical cameras and lenses, less chance of failure so no need to remplace them… i’m ready for the next 80 years (I’m 42 😅) with my gear

[@erikehrling4715]

You are absolutely right that mechanical cameras will live the longest but even they will have an end at some point. And as fewer and fewer working cameras in total are available we will start see color film, film labs disappear. Mechanical cameras, black and white film and home development will probably keep you going the longest.

[@buchsg]

@@erikehrling4715 but you can repair mechanics in order to make them working again, spring can be change, gear can be handmade etc. If you have the capacity to do that 😅 with all that said I think we will not be there when this happen, see what is going to the world this days… last solution, a 8x10 camera with a no shutter lens and homemade glass plate, no one will stop me doing photography 😂

[@klofisch]

actually the F6 is the worst of the Pro-Line....

[@AzrielKnight]

How come?

[@klofisch]

just stick with my soverized F2AS...........

[@AzrielKnight]

soverized?

[@klofisch]

@@AzrielKnight that what F2-Fans call their F2 when it got serviced by Sover Wong. Actually He provides the best Service this modell and even modifications. My got Meter got spot-metering in addition the the maintaince

[@minisla]

The market is saturated with used lenses. It will be a few decades before stocks deteriorate

[@AzrielKnight]

I fear it may be a cascade effect.

[@gastonmannlicher8077]

The price of film is killing film.

[@AzrielKnight]

I agree. Shoot black & white, that helps.

[@henryrogers5500]

Not at all for me. Hobbies cost money.