What Submission Is / Douglas Wilson

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[@kriscatherman]

Glory! This message was absolutely beautiful and spot on, I only wish the rest of the world had ears to hear this, thank you!

[@jackuber7358]

It only my pastor, all posters, spoke with such Biblical insight and clarity. Of course all the wonderful words in all Christendom are less than droplets falling in the vast ocean if there is not a believing heart to hear. God bless you, Pastor Doug, and thank you. Maranatha!

[@systemrevolt7309]

What a glorious message. I love to re learn this and discover new truths found in scripture. Thank you.

[@jreese8284]

Thank you so much for this clarification. We have had far too many incorrect explanations that damage our peace.

[@sweetsue6177]

Awsome as allways. Thank you. I wish we would have your work in my language.

[@gunnyrogers5854]

This is a fantastic message! I'll listen more than once. Excellent job

[@michaellandry2227]

That was great. Just great.

[@TempleofChristMinistries]

The glory of man is God and the glory of woman is man what this means is this, that the woman receives the glory of man and if man is an evil dark Spirited husband then you will see this in his wife, and there is his glory, simply said, look at your woman husband and there is your glory, if she does not shine then neither does the husband shine, you have no light, submission to husband can come by 2 powers fear and love, because woman will submit by these two powers in fact everyone submits by these two powers, the week submits to the power, what you are doing with all of this is causing man and woman to remain in their carnal nature, and this nature is perishable, all such things will Perish, The Holy Spirit rises above all carnal nature otherwise you are simply submitting to your flesh, all things pertaining to the flesh that is written in scripture is designed to Perish, so there is only the light of God where there is no gender, for the spirit of God has no gender.

[@rachelbolze1397]

Okay, that line about there's someone to tend the garden, and someone to tend the gardener is pretty out there. I fully believe that this passage is communicating how God created Eve to help Adam obey the charge that God put upon Adam. That charge was to care for the garden, take dominion over the world, and Obey God's charges about obedience and disobedience. The idea that God would make one person simply to exist for another person does not line up with the truth that God made all of us for himself, and he wants all of us to stay fully focused on obeying the direct charges that he gave at the beginning of time. If you look at Genesis, it says that God charged both the man and the woman to take Dominion. We certainly have different Roles, and I believe that that is what Hebrews points out. I believe that the man is supposed to lead in obeying these commands from God, and that the woman is supposed to come alongside of him. And yes, of course I believe that because of the order of the creation of man and woman one element of their difference in role is that women cannot be pastors and elders. But I don't think that we should go ahead and also conclude that man's job is to tend the garden, and woman's job is to tend the man. That conclusion does not lineup with examples of many godly women in the Bible, such as Ruth Deborah Priscilla and Phoebe. It also doesn't line up with the main focus of the Bible, which is to call all of us to equal love for God, obedience to all of his commands, including work, and our calling to put our direct relationship with God and focus on his desires above any human relationship. Focusing on pleasing any person, including a husband, as our purpose on this Earth conflicts with our real purpose, which is to focus on pleasing God. And even though Wilson tries to say that he's not implying that men and women have a different origin story, he is in fact doing just that. By saying that women and men have inherently different callings and purposes on this Earth, then he is saying that they are two beings with quite different natures. He is saying the men get to do the thing that God actually called all of us to do, which is to focus on obeying the mandates that God gave to both women and men at the beginning of time. As to women, he relegates them to focusing on pleasing their husbands and doing what their husbands desire. This implies that women don't actually get to focus on obeying the commands that God set forth as the calling of all human beings. This relegates the women to not being truly human, that is, not being called to fulfill God's purposes for for all of humanity.

[@sonnyh9774]

I hear your frustration and you are not alone. Most wives are at wits end with their husband/"head of the family" whose "shine" wore off long ago. I will try to be concise, gentle, yet frank and hopefully what I'm trying to say will not offend you but it might. It seems what you are proposing would make the wife equal to or head of the husband. It seems you want to have two chiefs which is one too many. The family would appear to be in constant gridlock and stalemate because if the wife and husband have different opinions on "how to tend the garden" (lead the family/ serve the Lord) then there will be either a compromise, submission, or impasse. Jesus submitted totally to the will and plan of God the Father yet was equal with Him. Just as Christ is head of the Church, the husband is head of the wife. The buck stops with the husband and he is responsible even for what his wife does. Adam was responsible for Eve's sin in part as head of the wife, and Eve is also responsible for her sin. No where else in Scripture do I see this reciprocated where the wife is ever responsible for what her husband does. The husband has the Biblical authority to nullify foolish vows of the wife and children. The husband also has the authority to nullify contracts the wife enters into if he deems them unwise. The wife does not have this authority Biblically. For the family to function at its best, God guides the husband to lead the family in serving the Lord and the wife supports the husband. Husbands frequently lead poorly by not faithfully following God which hurts everyone in the family, the Church and everyone in society to a small degree. As frustrating as this poor leadership may be to millions of Christian wives through history, this is the order and way God set it up to symbolically show Christ's headship, love and faithfulness to his bride-Church no matter how unfaithful His bride may be, and the husband's failure to imitate Christs love for His bride because of the husband's sinful pride and selfishness demonstrates to all why we need the Gospel and a Savior because we are just not good enough. Keep studying and you will see if your resistance continues, it will be resistance to God's plan and authority. Every wife who suffers and is frustrated with her stumbling husband has a legitimate and valid complaint, and God has instructed wives on how to get remedy from her suffering. Keep in mind the suffering continues in seeking remedy because part of the remedy involves the Church leadership who are stumbling, fumbling, bumbling men themselves. Keep in mind that God uses the wife to sanctify the husband and uses the husband to sanctify the wife in spite of both of their rebellious, prideful and selfish desires. God works through our mess. There is an opportunity with every pile of crap. Planting seeds of love is like planting seeds of flowers and trees in the steaming pile of crap. This is what God does with our mess... He makes beautiful things out of crap and He wants us to try to do the same. This does not excuse husbands of their failures and sin. They are accountable to God for how they steward what God has given them and wives likewise. We will all have our stewardship on Earth judged by God and our stewardship in eternity will be based at least in part on how faithful we were in our stewardship on Earth. Remember the widows mite. In her suffering and poverty, she did more in God's eyes with her stewardship than the rich man who gave a gazillion dollars. We all need saving. We all need a Savior. Our hope is in the Resurrection of Jesus Christ and Him only. I write this with heavy heart and tear filled eyes because my wife left me just before Christmas of last year because she didn't trust my "leadership". The stakes are high. Our choices have consequences. Do the best you can to honor God and trust Him with the results. Doing things God's way is so huge. Look at Moses. He struck the rock when God told him to speak to it. What's the big deal? The people got the water and survived, but God wouldn't let Moses enter the promised land because of it. There's no easy answer to any of it, but if we love God and love our neighbor and that includes conflict resolution (God's way), then we will experience the fruits of the Spirit which are incredible. Your inner peace and joy is controlled by how you think. Choose love.

[@good_brake]

Our benevolent overlords seem to have removed my comment because I made application of this to their sacred cows, the stunning and brave T's who crumble at the slightest criticism.