What Went Wrong With Pizza Tower's Rework Build?

[@foushe977]

So I followed the games development for a long time so I can give some answers for some of the changes and stuff that wasn't mentioned, not most of these do follow the "cuz I wanted to" mentality. So for rework, a big thing that should be mentioned is that while in development around world 3, while it was still similar to april 21, mcpig decided to add in more sonic-esc momentum like running fast on slopes and slow going up them, so most of the level design was fairly changed to fit this new style A reason for the removal of instant wall climbing was because mcpig felt the super jump was being underused by players. This also aligns well with western V1 build as there you couldn't superjump for thr opposite reasons And originally, the moveset would've been even worse. Mcpig wanted to add more combat so he changed the grab into this "hold button to attack" move where you just did a barrage of attacks to a single enemy. The grab was still there, don't get me wrong, but it did nothing but boost your forward. Mainly wanted to say these as there's a lot of lost info on pizza tower's development that isn't archived any way, like how the revolver was going to be used in oh shit.

[@SylviaYSI]

Honestly I had no idea about a lot of this, unfortunately I wasn’t around when the game was being developed so I’ll never have the full picture on what was going through McPig’s mind during this time. With that being said, reading this is pretty interesting, especially knowing things almost got worse 😭

[@justdenys1421]

@@SylviaYSI you missed the part where mcpig decided to make transformations take away your points because he wanted them to be completely optional and sorta "punishing" in a way (imagine if every single transformation got turned into animatronic). It got such a huge backlash that I don't even think there's a single build that exists that features this.

[@foushe977]

@justdenys1421 oh I actually never knew that, then again I joined around when sage was published

[@justdenys1421]

@@foushe977 that was around beachandforest build i'm pretty sure. i don't even remember if it was like in a video mcpig posted outside of thing of the week channel, or did people notice it on one of the streams.

[@Womoisreal]

I would argue that a lot of the changes made are good changes, when playing and replaying the build myself I noticed how many good changes Peppino had in-between his April and September movesets. A lot of gaps between the final game and pre-september Peppino movesets are chronologically filled by September. I'd argue a lot of the changes make the game better but are overshadowed by the worse changes. For example the level design philosophy. While it's more cruel and pecimistic it makes one good change compared to the older builds is the fact that features are kept for a level and then left to stay in that level instead of stacking for every level in the game which in my opinion saves the game's levels from starting off good before gradually devolving into mediocrity like the old builds often do.

[@PuffyBuffy25]

What you have to keep in mind is that this build is so extreme becuse it was supposed to be playtester exclusive, but it ended up getting leaked.

[@epicredhot5675]

most of the mechanics were shown off in the game's Discord people knew about these things long before the build itself got leaked

[@haalfnhaalf]

Something I think goes unacknowledged in this and other criticisms of this *kind* of game design is that people don't understand the idea of overcorrection. The ability to push REALLY hard in a direction just to know how far you can go is the point of a build like this. You wonder why this build is between two really good ones? I believe the reason is because it was never supposed to be good. It was a full tilt in a bunch of directions to see what happens, and afterward he knew how far he could push it so it didn't end up wack on launch.

[@supersmashseandx1991]

That makes perfect sense

[@SylviaYSI]

With that perspective, it explains a lot about how this build feels and plays, it’s all just a little too much. That’s most likely the real answer for why Rework Build feels off, and it also explains how things started improving very quickly afterwards in retrospect, too

[@LucasMiddleNameandLastname22]

McPig's crippling alcohol addiction really shines through with this one.

[@DeviledEggsYipee]

Guess I know what Peppino was based off of

[@michakochanski2491]

Wait what

[@Womoisreal]

​@@michakochanski2491mcpig isn't really alcohol addicted, it's a joke started by steriff.

[@DeviledEggsYipee]

@@michakochanski2491 I was also joking sorry lol

[@somemadnessfan4763]

McPig is ZUN confirmed?!??!?!

[@somebadbatter]

What a shocking twist, a games private development test build wasnt perfect. truly never could have seen that coming.

[@Soda_B]

The point is that the builds before this one were a lot better, it’s not about slamming the devs for making a shitty test build, it’s just talking about how it’s not great

[@kevintheboi_]

​@@Soda_BHmm I wonder why it was private in the first place.

[@Soda_B]

@@kevintheboi_ It doesn’t matter if it was private or not, it’s just saying “this build sucked when the other builds were okay, hmm that’s weird”

[@kevintheboi_]

@@Soda_B It does matter though, you were never meant to play or experience this, only the people responsible for playtesting.

[@iconica9516]

disingenuous commenter not understanding the purpose of the content, tale as old as time

[@SylviaYSI]

I feel the need to comment on this video now, because I genuinely feel bad about how this video was presented: I'm not personally attacking McPig for the decisions made here, nor do I want the video to seem like a direct criticism of the game for the choices. The build is just very interesting to me, and that was the point that I didn't really get across right. It's a little too late to go back, unless I were to re-write and re-edit the entire video, plus the damage has already been done. So, I just wanted to acknowledge all of that to give my thoughts on it all after the fact. I love this game a lot, so making it seem like I don't was not my intention, I just think this build is odd, and I coulda worded that much better than I did 😭

[@Justcommentinhere]

Mc pig was like: hmmmmm, drinking and developing game

[@applegod7]

i tried to beat this, but it was not possible because -the noise's boss is unbeatable -DMAS crashes because of the old Clownmato -WAR's exit door cannot be entered -the final level (top) and pizzaface's boss fight cannot be entered throught the hubworld

[@DaComical-i1t]

My response: - The Noise boss IS possible, I beat it myself along with the rest of the bosses. - The DMAS in the hub world is the old April Build version, and a newer actually BEATABLE version is in the level select. - real - also real Most real response ever

[@SylviaYSI]

I’m surprised the list is so short, I had too many struggles while record 😭

[@DaComical-i1t]

@@SylviaYSI lol

[@OmaPinoChi]

sir, using the menu to reset the level in dmas takes you for some reason to the april build version of the level, which crashes because the april build topping monsters code was deleted

[@therealflamey]

mcpig forgot to change​@@OmaPinoChi

[@cyanamespace]

this video really should’ve included that the rework build was both not supposed to be seen by the public, as it’s a playtest build, and that it wasn’t leaked until after the game already released.

[@epicredhot5675]

nope, a good majority of the changes were shown off in the game's discord at the time

[@Notdog610]

TBH I still think that rework build had good ideas but bad execution

[@Pizzablud]

fr

[@Notdog610]

@@Pizzablud oh hey it's the relic tower guy

[@SylviaYSI]

That’s also how I feel about it. I’ll admit, there’s a lot to like about the build when you look at it for what it tried. But when it’s viewed for what it is, and especially with context… yeah it was rough. Still though, it was a stepping stone for the game as a whole, so I can’t exactly fault it

[@Jade-t9i]

here's a take of indeterminate temperature: i really like rework build gustavo and brick. they feel like a better version of pogo noise, and if they had their own sections built around that bouncier, less precise movement, it could be really fun. it was honestly a really pleasant surprise when i was playing through it since i am well experienced with how painful eggplant build gustavo and brick were, and rework is The Bad Build with The Bad Mechanics. but there's genuinely fun to be had in messing around with their weird bouncy ball playstyle. sadly, like most of rework build's cool ideas, it's still squandered by the simple fact that nothing in rework build is allowed to be good. instead of their own sections, you instead get to run through sections you already played through as peppino, as a character that plays nothing like peppino and whom is not built to play the same sections as peppino. and even when they do get their own sections, it sure as hell doesn't FEEL like their sections, with weird little bits of level that would be awkward as peppino, but are just completely undesirable as gustavo and brick. still, though, even if the final version is still the best iteration of the duo, i kinda wish that this version had a chance to appear in a build that was actually good.

[@theconsulhl2]

for me personally, rework build is the worst by gameplay, but the best for concept, i would love a gigantic hub world with mini quests you would have to do in order to progress, also you can shoot the noise with a gun in the bossfights(april build, but can be reinabled in september) 10/10, also Top was the level you do to reach Pizzaface, and Exit is the early TCTOP

[@eShears]

I followed the development for this game since the beginning of 2022, and I remember seeing streams of this build, and it made me mad that the game was starting to go to crap. When Eggplant build came out I was so relieved to see how much better everything was, and I was so shocked to see how wall-running was buffed when playing the game when it released (In SAGE build you could not wall run by grab-jumping into a wall, but in release build you can) so glad McPig perfected the movement of the game.

[@Womoisreal]

9:40 theyre not. I played them, and in the Noise fight i found out getting hurt too much would cause the hit stun timer to get longer making it so you could get combod by noise from 75% of health to 0. I thought that was a weird glitch until i watched an old McPig devlog and found out the mechanic is 100% completely intentional and you cant turn off the variable that makes you not get stunned longer until you close and reopen the game, meaning that subsequent attempts at the fight and even any other instance of playing the game and getting hurt would start with the enemy having a huge advantage over you. Not to mention when you are not getting cornered, you can hit the boss at any time and unlike the final game vigilante fight they get stunned meaning you can combo them also meaning the fighting system is like smash brothers melee and the only character was the ice climber duo and the only attack was the infinite grab combo.

[@SylviaYSI]

Okay wow that’s rough. Suppose there was a lot to be ironed out for the mechanics of the fights then 😭

[@justdenys1421]

Pizzaland was initially part of The Pig City by the way. so technically speaking, it's Rework that reused that background, which then got reused again in hub of the final game

[@jopemilima749]

There's one feature i love and that i WISHED soo bad was in the final game. If you rolled on a slope you'd get some stupid amounts of speed (which was a great substitute for the removal of going ball mode when pressing down on a slope)

[@red243OSC]

mmm... beer.... -McPig/Pizza Tower Guy

[@Relicyclone]

I think what I would’ve liked to see the most return is the mansion level, it was an interesting idea. All it needed was a rework to fit the style of the gameplay.

[@SylviaYSI]

It’s really a shame that it got cut, Mansion easily has one of the most unique level themes out there. Especially in this build, it was really starting to come together, but it just didn’t make the final cut. The biggest loss by far is easy the music though… never forget the banger track…

[@baconlabs]

I don't know much about pizza history, so at first I was terrified that this video was talking about a post-launch update build

[@miraclewillow1]

oh this vid is a convenient find since I read about this build days before, so odd to see how they just saw the positive reaction to sage and thought "nah let's pull a Sonic Team and reinvent the formula"

[@Maxler5795]

1:12 And i remember playong the shit out of that. Snick challenge my beloved...

[@_pepperman]

we HAVE to at least give mcpig some credit for the dough blocks...

[@originalsharkygames5504]

I cannot unhear the Uhyeah voice similarities

[@virtualdash]

The amount of changes this game went through during development is really interesting

[@ShyGuy_Studios]

There was this other mod called Pizza Tower 2021 which theorizes of if Pizza Tower was finished in 2021. It does seem like it's cancelled due to the Discord link not working but I do have the build saved. From what I played, Peppino still has that rework build physics but has his moveset more in line with the final game. Here's some footage that I found: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bKa2ooGigditbsk

[@MinosPrimeGaming]

There's another mod similar to that for April 202 Build called Noisette's Blueprints but it also seems to have been put on hold or just canceled

[@mehsayori]

Rework fan here. I'll admit: this build is *far* from perfect. I feel like the biggest problem with the game is that instant wallrunning was removed; without it, nearly every section of the game is tedious. My favorite part of this build is the hub. It's huge, has npcs to talk to, and it has interesting ways to get to each level. It's not perfect, but exploring through it is certainly an experience.

[@n068h]

Despite video being out for 6 days, i fee like I've already seen it before. I'm going insane.

[@massgunner4152]

This build is like finding out about the nuka cola Quantum trials.

[@maxptforreal]

in short afaik the rework build remade plenty of things from the last build to try and up their quality

[@somo4227]

i love game builds like these even when they are trash beacuse they feel like presenting idea in the purest form possible

[@X2011racer]

This patch makes Yooka-Laylee's "Spit n' Polish" patch look like a masterpiece.

[@ItsCenrryTH]

Honestly, It would be interesting seeing more videos like this for the other indev builds See what they got right, and where they messed up

[@crayfray]

I never understood why these types of retrospectives for earlier builds of the game always focus on the negative. I find it dishonest and a spit in the face against the developers. How can you speak of the final game so highly, then criticise and mock its earlier stages from previous years, when that is literally the point of being still in development - throwing ideas against the wall and then seeing what sticks? Especially for a game like Pizza Tower which has so many moving parts, the reason we only got to this point is exactly thanks to stuff like this. This build was a dud for one reason or another (which was never meant for the public eye either). Furthermore, why are you questioning design decisions for when you yourself admit to lack a lot of context for what was happening at the time? I don't know, this entire video felt like just complaining for the sake of complaining. The fact that this video is based of a build that no one else was supposed to have access to, and to then continiously complain about it for 12 minutes is just dishonest in more ways than one. The entire framing just sucks man, sorry. I really wonder how much respect people have for developers when shit like this exists, and how much faith people really have in trusting Tour De Pizza for making games. Because if we see content like this get made even more often, quite frankly you don't need to be surprised if demos & early looks for upcoming projects will be even less rare. Because why show respect for the fanbase if they didn't have any to begin with?

[@ImMrV]

Hello, Cray.

[@toondreamer4438]

Um, I think that was a patreon build.

[@Monoe_YN]

​@@toondreamer4438 lol no it wasnt, it was a leaked playtester build the public was never meant to see!!!

[@PotatNetflix]

Yeah. He should stay on his PvZ lane

[@_skib_]

@@PotatNetflix I'm personally a fan of the Pool Lane myself.

[@GamerParasite]

I played eggplant build one or two momth ago and to this whole video I'll just say YES

[@osp4277]

pretty good video. surprised i havent seen more people talk about this build because it's super duper bad. i hated april build when it first came out but i cant imagine what i wouldve thought if they waited a few more months and dropped this bombshell instead :d. they got their shit together quick though, the jump from april/september to eggplant build is like night and day.

[@Virtual_Garbage]

rework build was made by mcpig while he was drinking while driving and crashed into a family of 5

[@Compwnter]

video's alright but you could've emphasized how this was a playtest build more ngl

[@SylviaYSI]

In hindsight, I really should have, because that context is important for why the build felt as weird as it does. If this were a main release, it probably would have done some damage to the game, which is why it’s kind of a good thing the build stayed limited 😭

[@Eviled]

​@@SylviaYSI That's why I don't think it's fair at all to criticize it as if it was... it's extremely harmful to think about gamedev in this way

[@Microsave2]

With the debug menu, you can STILL GET Into the rework build hub in the final game, but bewarned that the game will crash, alot

[@Temmie4Life]

finally a good video on pizza tower from you wowie. theres no missing stuff or very opinion based

[@SylviaYSI]

I’ll take this as a compliment

[@Temmie4Life]

@@SylviaYSI it is sorta i dont hate you btw your taking the insults very well. alot of people would straight up ban me from your channel lol

[@vasas2.025]

I downloaded this build just to see how bad it is G O D

[@NineQuestionMarks]

I just got through as much of the rework Build as I could get. The hub world is definitely my favorite thing about it, although I had a map from the concept art to go off of. It just felt so interactable and made the Pizza Tower feel like an actual business and place people lived in. Also I played it with a mod that improved the controls, so I had some more fun with it. I'd say the bosses were my least favorite part of the build, actually. They parry your attacks and instead of a real battle it feels more like an odd puzzle trying to figure out what attack to use. Also there's a timer that kept on breaking up the fight which got kinda annoying.

[@Ensign_games]

*takes notes* I think this would be a good idea for my game FOR AN APRIL FOOLS BUILD

[@luginess0]

Ive watched this video multiple times and I still dont know what is even in this build

[@frannielmartinez]

I actually freakibg love how you use the grease ball in this build, feels like Kirby's Dream Course

[@HyperHimes]

This build feels like the Windows Vista of Pizza Tower builds-

[@onisms]

[@PumpkinNoise]

Top isn't an early version of ctop. its its own level that the player would enter before fighting pizzaface

[@Uoliveiraa]

It is just me or Sylvia and Uh Yeah have similar voices?

[@jacobmorris6357]

I didn't know this was an early build so I was terrified for a moment that an update somehow killed the game

[@thekeybladeninjaturtle7380]

I'm just glad one of the best Indie games didn't turn out to be one of the worst ones ever. And no, I wouldn't say the Rework Build is on-par with Yandere Simulator, I am above comparing good games to that disaster

[@thatgibberishrappingdog6057]

following pizza tower pre release with no access to patreon demos was so weird, it felt like everyone was losing their minds over the implementation of the gooptroop 1000 and dimmyshimmy move which would ruin the game forever (me included though i guess)

[@toondreamer4438]

I wanna listen to more Pizza /tower demos and builds from you!

[@SylviaYSI]

I don’t really have any strong opinions on any other build of this game, besides the early 2019 builds for their unique aspects. I kinda love their aesthetics honestly, even if they’re jank as all hell I still think they’re cool

[@toondreamer4438]

@@SylviaYSI what about the 2020 patreon builds they have sage 2019 demo gameplay.

[@TheRedStinger82]

My favorite part of the video was the fact that I didn't understand the intro.

[@Mightype]

He got stuck

[@SylviaYSI]

I got stuck on the slope

[@Maguarkwo671]

I think Rework Build is the way it is because Mcpig took into account game desIGN (the danganronpa music in my pizza tower video really threw me off guard btw lol)

[@dillius_]

At least it had september block

[@ControllingCar]

Wasnt the TIF animation in the start made by a creep,.,.. So awesome!🎉

[@SylviaYSI]

Was it? I have absolutely no idea 😭

[@ControllingCar]

@@SylviaYSI think so!! I forgor tho so wtvr.., Rework build ooughhh drools

[@mariokid-yx4kt]

you may think this is a bag fumble i think this is history (and also good i like this build a lot)

[@SylviaYSI]

I also think it's history, it's just a really interesting time during Pizza Tower's development. The fact that this build sticks out so much compared to all the other builds of this game says a lot... whether that's a good or bad thing is completely up to your personal interpretation. I still don't really like the build, but reading the comment section has given me a lot of insight for the people who do enjoy it, which is neat

[@Elquenoseconectacasinunca]

Rework build or september build It's like vietnam or ww2 to any playtesters or some weirdo that just search it from internet archive

[@burnv06]

Pizza Tower: Fallout 76 Edition

[@curlybrace4984]

This is why testing is done. Throw stuff at a wall to see what sticks, get some people to play it, and if they don't like it, cool, you have some very useful information. Not a very big deal.

[@snortscout2360]

level design is my passion

[@Elquenoseconectacasinunca]

Mc pig drunked making the level design:

[@mye30]

Everytine i see sylvia post i smile

[@HyperrealisticNoise1111]

the answer: jay leno phase

[@grandaduck]

jay leno phase...

[@weirdocatguy2167]

i remember this build i tfucking blowed, was meant to be more like osnic one in speed but it just sucked and most people LOUDLY voiced criticism of it, thus the sudden change again

[@Puppyjuan_1970]

my brother in christ this was an unfinished build, what did you expect?

[@LeeTCGA]

so did you actually watch the video or did you just disagree immediately

[@Puppyjuan_1970]

@@LeeTCGA I’ll admit I didn’t watch the video on it's entirety, and I don’t wanna watch it.

[@Gaming_nerd1987]

It's a more of a "well... This bad build is sandwiched between amazing builds, that's interesting..." And not a "WOW! this early build is TERRIBLE! HAHAHAHAHAHAH-" ​@@Puppyjuan_1970

[@Puppyjuan_1970]

@@Gaming_nerd1987 i see.

[@Noiseisback-pickupphone]

Recommendation: can you beat pvz with not listening to all previous videos's rules?

[@AsukaFangirlJassy]

this is all good and everything, but nobody calls pogo noise trash, Pogo noise is so much fun to use

[@ArialdOlsch]

Pizza tower was too easy, so he had to break peppinos legs and replace them with prostetic ones

[@FreakinMagic]

in that sense, the rework build is fantastic in being awful as mcpig tested some new stuff and learned that people hated it.

[@chazzmat]

The palette almost didn't work. there were many different movemant changes and others that made the game almost impossible.

[@Canalabandonado62]

Love this video I would love to see a eggplant video

[@someguy0nthen3t]

rework gave me depression (also im fine with you using my video :D)

[@SylviaYSI]

I could not for my life figure out how to enable the fights, so I appreciate it 😭

[@Elquenoseconectacasinunca]

Nobody can be happy playing this build, only the 0.00000001% (like in a phone ad)

[@deangabriel921]

Hey SylviaYSI I have a challenge for PvZ2, Use the plants only from the world you unlocked it.

[@deangabriel921]

example: Your in Ancient Egypt use those plants from that world

[@baimhakani]

I'll tell you what went wrong with it- *it ain't got no gas in it!*

[@Krazykiddo11]

everything basicaly

[@mzmizz8226]

3:27 why is the gameplay at Chinese?

[@red243OSC]

idk, its an actual language update

[@iciclesoup]

i'm the #1 rework build fan and i agree with this video.

[@TheBunkyDude]

Fire quote 🔥 9:00

[@tfclassicengineer1005]

You sound like if LS Mark was more friendly, more childish and more adult sounding all in one, somehow.

[@tailsreal]

9:58 clip aged poorly

[@CrappyProductionsOfficial]

it's a wip rework, what did you expect?

[@nottheimpostor]

just because it's wip doesn't mean that it's ok to be bad

[@CrappyProductionsOfficial]

@@nottheimpostor dude, wip stuffs are not finished, of course it lacks polish and might not work as expected

[@clutteryguy9747]

I love Pizza Tower

[@Krispizz]

I like this build, it’s funny

[@epicstar86]

peakness

[@LightninghawkYT]

Pizza Crust :-]

[@smashers6971]

8:48 Keep in mind that He wanted Vigilante as a playable character as soon as he was created and was planning to give his own spin off game with the Noise instead of the noise update and giving the second campaign to Mr. Stick. I think it’s a miracle the game came out as good as it is

[@PumpkidWasTaken]

i love rework

[@stixely]

In the number 1 rework build fan, it’s amazing. Your opinion is just wrong, the movement is amazing, the use of no wall running other than slopes is amazing, it’s all beautiful. Mcpig made an amazing build, this could of been the final game.

[@yv70bnomemes]

That build is weird

[@ImThatCDGuy]

tysm

[@ImThatCDGuy]

btw, rework reloaded isn't cancelled, i'm just moving over to the final game and turning it into a backport/remix mod (rework SUCKS to work with)

[@Peterpetercheeseeater]

Work

[@autismandgaming4532]

Woag

[@MrScottyToo]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/eWTTg5KkqLR3nbs&ab_channel=SylviaYSI this video is the full gameplay and everything longplay of this Rework build.

[@JuasitoX]

Day 39 commenting on random Pizza Tower videos

[@Cool_Kid95]

It's nice hearing someone trash this build, but I think that April Build isn't good by any means and your glazing of it is insane. It is only a bit better than this build, they both suck dogwater and make me appreciate the final game more (It's so good). My main issues with the 2 builds is there miserable and overpunishing level design, Rework Build is just worse cause Peppino controls even worse than April Build. Perhaps I'll make my own video on it sometime.

[@Thenoise1010]

63th Comment

[@TheFunnyManWithBeans]

iirc the main reason this build sucks was that (from what I've heard) this was an era where pig didn't make his playtesters playtest often

[@Err0r_Kir0]

[@jawad215skaiki5]

I understood nothing tbh 🫥