Wheel Chair Conversion Van? (No Crank, No Comm)

Road trip! Today we're going to Youngstown, Ohio to look at a 2007 Chrysler Town & Country that doesn't crank.
Patrick the owner says that it's been down for months, been to several specialty shops, and is still dead many hundreds of dollars later.
He really wants it fixed, because it's his FREEDOM.
But this beast isn't your regular minivan!
The van is custom-built to be operated with just two hands....amazing.
Let's see why this van is refusing to crank or run, and why the PCM is not communicating.
Things get exciting half way through the diag...
THINK TOOL PROS:
www.amazon.com/dp/B08XXWHQVJ?...
Enjoy!
Ivan

[@andybonneau9209]

A nightmare of poorly installed aftermarket addons. We installed one of these systems at our shop and took pains to make the additional wiring as good or better than the OE. It's been over 15 years now without any related problems.

[@thirzapeevey2395]

Thanks for getting that van going again, Ivan. As the parent of a child with a disability, and the owner of one of those vans, it means a lot that you went the extra mile to help him remain mobile and independent.

[@patriot2164]

Yes my brother also has a handicap van and I have worked on it , there is a cross between OEM and aftermarket features and the After market company does not give out their side of Diagrams , they want it back to their shop where they can charge what ever they want , and there is not much you can do about it

[@patriot2164]

Also had an issue with getting new tires , the tire company said the van and the side step were too low to put on their lifts ! I couldn't believe what the hell they were saying , I put 2x4's under each wheel , it lifted it high enough to swing the lifts arms underneath no interference , Makes you wonder who is out there fixing cars

[@OzFrog48Z]

Wheel chair conversion vans are probably the most challenging when it comes to electrical diagnosing. We had a fleet of Dodge full sized van school busses that had wheel chair lifts in them. They had intermittent no start conditions. The wheel chair lifts had a switch in them that was wired in series with the control side of the ASD relay so the vehicle would not start unless the chair lift was fully retracted. Some of these switches weren't adjusted properly. Also sometimes the van drivers wouldn't fully seat the chairlift before starting the van. With no wiring diagrams and absolutely no cooperation from the mobility company that installed the systems, (They wanted the vehicles brought to them.) it took many hours to figure this out.

[@MikeF1189]

I bought a short bus at auction that wasn't running. Ripped the wheelchair lift out and all the AM wiring for it. Bus fired right up. "Thanks wheelchair lift for helping getting a cheap bus!"

[@robant5578]

I have brown lift on the back of my van, guess what I did first thing after getting the van? I throw all the security splinters and wiring from under the column , and hooked up ignition wiring to factory original, and hooked up lift red wire to the ignition wire directly without any safety , only out toggle switch on my dash , so now I can not only operate my lift with engine off, I can drive my van around with doors open and lift open and lowered, ,

[@kennyprehn7115]

Hey Ivan, im the lead installation tech for the Aevit system. Thats an Aevit 1.0 set up (old). Because that customer has gas/brake modification, that wiring should have gone to an "engine kill" that shuts the vehicle down when it sees both gas and brake being applied signaling a dangerous situation (run away throttle etc.....).

[@jkbrown5496]

So the likely ultimate culprit is that monitor in the Aevit system has gone intermittent? It did seem like some security device was interposed on that fuel pump relay at that fuse.

[@kennyprehn7115]

@@jkbrown5496 it’s an independent module (is tied into the vehicle interface module-part of aevit) that allows power to the fuel pump (on this particular vehicle). Normally closed circuit that opens when seeing an issue.

[@Nabeelco]

That would explain a lot. Is/was this a common failure mode for those systems? Was it an alignment thing, or a module going bad?

[@gregoryjones4418]

But the AEVIT system would not have been the reason for no crank. The pcm not knowing where the transmission is caused this. Seen it before on EMC vans. Still curious why the chrysler system came back on board. Guess you've got to light a little fire under it. (also an EMC tech)

[@kingofbrutaltheocracy9201]

TSB#12345: Intermittent NO START. Procedure: light a small fire under the pcm.

[@ncsarola]

You’re a good man Ivan. I’m a physical therapist and have come across quite a few patients over the years with problems with their Chrysler conversion vans. From what I have seen in my 28 years is that the Toyota Sienna conversation vans are much more reliable. In fact, Toyota will discount their Sienna’s $10k to go towards conversions for handicapped people.

[@RobertHancock1]

Given that these vehicles need to be reliable, as the owner can't just drive a loaner or some rental car if it breaks down, you'd wonder why anyone would choose a Chrysler van..

[@rjedro]

@@RobertHancock1 Because Chryslers are cheap to buy.

[@bikeaddictbp]

@@RobertHancock1 There was nothing wrong with the Chrysler bits and pieces or wiring here ... only the aftermarket junk, and if they did the same aftermarket stuff to any other van to accomplish the same interlock, it would have the same problem! First place to look when troubleshooting any vehicle with aftermarket stuff that has a problem, is the aftermarket stuff.

[@jimmyb1451]

Did Ivan say the dude took it back to the people who installed the custom controls, and they charged him 800 and fixed nothing? If that's the case, IMO, they owe the dude his 800 back, and they owe Ivan for his time. They created the fault in the first place with their sub par techniques, they then failed to diagnose it, and then charged him for the privilege. That's pretty methed up.

[@WastedTalent-]

NY has The Repair Shop Act. With some paperwork, the DMV investigates the shoddy repair and you can get your money back for the original repairs and for the proper repair. Unfortunately, I don't see anywhere where Ohio has the same laws.

[@sixtyfiveford]

It was more than likely a safety interlock for the wheelchair or something to make sure it was locked in place. Or possibly the ramp was fully locked away. I've worked on a few wheelchair vans / wheelchair loading mechanisms and they all seem to have stuff like that.

[@alex4alexn]

You are a good man Ivan, money makes the world go around but just finding someone trustworthy to help is the hardest part

[@jimzivny1554]

Ivan, thanks for getting him mobile again. I'm also disabled and drive an Econoline with a wheelchair lift that seemed to be wired by a drunk blind man. The manufacturers of these vans act like they're doing you a favor by charging an arm and a leg regardless if they solve the problems or not. It's not bad enough being crippled and on a fixed income but then they rape your wallet and smile about it. Sorry for the rant but I know of a few others in my position who have had similar experiences. You could make a career of repairing our vans at least we'd know the repairs are done properly.

[@upload15613]

It’s the same way with anything targeted at seniors. I know a lot of people that have gotten “taken” by products designed for seniors. Telekin/WOW computers come to mind. They charge people $1300 for a computer worth $250 and just put a simple Linux distribution on it. Quite a racket.

[@williamwhite9767]

Kudos to you Ivan for helping this man! I'm also amazed that you can solve problems on a van that has been so heavily modified! How many techs would even attempt it?

[@n3lee]

several; and they had no shame in charging.

[@siucbset]

Career: You are beyond a mechanic. !You are an Elite Engineering Technician! A lot of people can repair things when they have the correct information. Few people can repair systems when they do not have all then needed diagrams or circuitry.

[@kennethbode2017]

former stereo installers wired that van. I'm sure you made that guys day, week, and month. You really restored his mobility.

[@mike_svt93]

Imagine taking this to a dealer. They'd probably scatter like roaches. And the company that modifies the van is no help. A game of hot potato. Gotta say Ivan, there seems to be no challenge too big for you. You never cease to amaze. 👍

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Hot potato indeed 🥔

[@Jonathan11225]

its funny bc back when i was a chrysler tech a did work on a modified handicap Town & country on two occasion in the 4 years i was there, the van only had linkages for the pedals,the steering wheels was still there. the first time it was for a recall wich involve replacing the WIn module (ignition switch) i had to remove all the linkage to get access, even my boss was not sure if we needed a special certification to work on this, the guy was super happy that i took the time with him to check if everything was properly adjust for him, couple years later on my last day being employ there the guy came back bc he had a traction control light on the cluster, and he remembered me and ask the service advisor if i could do the job, turn out it was a faulty steering angle sensor in the clockspring and i had to remove the pedal/handle linkage again, and they are a pain to work with it was my last job there before quiting hahhahah

[@vehiclenanny]

"Fire, fire...that was cool." Gotta love an electrical genius!

[@mikefoehr235]

When Ivan swears you know he is not impressed. Man Ivan you are a man that is beyond good and dedicated. When you said 💩 and you had a small fire...that was scary stuff.

[@samcripes3046]

First time I've ever heard him swear!

[@johnfurmedge1401]

@@samcripes3046 Maybe he does in Russian.

[@TubeBrowser2]

Great job helping this man with such a unique highly customized rare tech older rig.

[@scottjeans6184]

My first thought was that crappy looking wiring going to the fuel pump fuse area. Great repair again,thank you as these videos are a great help...and fun to watch.

[@raula.flores1185]

I got a headache watching you troubleshoot this one, but I made it to the end.

[@KarateSensei71]

As Eric O. says, "Oh no aftermarket crap, tear it out!". Glad you helped out Patrick he has his freedom restored and I am sure is happy to have the van fixed by a legendary Master. Great video.

[@WastedTalent-]

Or as Rainman Ray said, "Want custom parts? Get ready for custom problems."

[@pierrejordaan3301]

Thank you Ivan, your video was just what I needed. I'm laid up at home with a work related injury waiting to heal up and burning through diagnostic videos. May you be blessed for your good heart and once again thank you for supplying us with great content.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Get better fast!

[@johnshellenberg1383]

At 19:00 when Ivan says "This is insane" I thought "No, THIS IS CHRYSLER!" This channel is a master class on modern diagnosis of automobiles.

[@Mr-Payne]

Have you had anything you couldn't diagnose? Your skills are impressive.

[@bobflannagan7262]

Ivan, this video is, I think, the finest one ever for all the reasons I became a big fan of your channel. What a ride! Modesty, frankness, never giving up, and great diagnostic skill. Here's to you getting more subscribers, not just likes.

[@TheCowgirlNiamh]

Well done for helping Patrick! I can’t see him getting that mess figured out in a shop. You’re very sweet Ivan.

[@keltecshooter]

I have no idea how anyone could charge so much money and not fix anything at all , especially for a disabled person. Nice job as always!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

It's criminal.

[@PassingTimeInPeachtree]

Love your never give up attitude Ivan. I wish I could drive my 94 STS to you but it could be a little risky coming from Atlanta. Maybe I’ll take the challenge as my uncle and cousins live there and I also graduated from PSU many years ago. I’ve got a few electrical issues so if you are ever in the south and can take a look at my caddy you’ve got a place to stay and I’ll show you around town too.

[@dendkmac]

That is commendable Ivan helping the handicapped owner, taking the time to go out there. Interesting case.

[@htwrk2]

Good job again Ivan! Memories of fixing improper installations done by other mobility companies. Finished watching the video from this morning and it looks like an improper installation on this fuel pump circuit. The harness labeled fuel pump comes from the EMC/Aevit driving system computer. Its purpose is to kill power to the fuel pump in the event of a stuck throttle. It does this by monitoring the TPS, engine rpm and the position of the gas/brake lever. This circuit should have been wired from below the fuse box by interrupting the wire going to the fuel pump only. The way it was wired it was interrupting power to other things and could have caused unintended consequences. Plus the poor connections into the fuse terminals causing the overall failure. It should not have been done this way. How did you like listening to that non stop warning tone from the driving system while the ignition was on? I learned to ignore it but drove everybody else crazy in the shop. FYI: Should you ever work on one of these conversion vans again and the van has weird electrical issues put an oscilloscope on all the oem can busses and look at the wave form. You noticed this van had what is called a lowered floor/dropped floor. The company that does this conversion runs the oem harnesses in troughs and/or along the front door sills. These are notorious for moisture getting into connectors etc. The metal floor pans are covered with plywood and carpeting and stay wet for a long time, not the best way to do it.

[@stevex3976]

Glad you could help get Patrick back on the road. You can see that mobility is important to him! Bless you!

[@helloitsme4139]

25:10 - South main auto call out on the power prob container. Well there’s your problem lady

[@kbaisley4947]

Cool story and great to see Patrick get his van back on the road. Great job Ivan.

[@jamesgeddes797]

"Oh shit ... FIRE!" LOL. A first for PHAD! Nice job as usual, Ivan.

[@IntuCars]

So many good comments! And I agree with most of them. Outstanding video and kudos again for helping this guy out!

[@mh70ss]

Great to see that you got Patrick back on the road. We take driving for granted, that is a lifeline for him. Thanks for sticking with it to the end.

[@larrystephens7437]

Three "what the heck's " , two " fires " and only one " Hummmmm "... I always enjoy watching you troubleshoot... Well done...

[@alex1949]

Icicles and working semi-blind because of the diagram-less aftermarket equipment. And you got it running. Sprinkle in a little swearing to keep it real. Ivan, you are the man! I can only hope I can get near your diagnostic abilities.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

😅👌

[@agostinodibella9939]

Great video Ivan. You were very patient dealing with that after market maze of wiring and getting the van back on the road for the customer.

[@cclngthr]

Those electric hand control systems can be very complicated just by themselves. They have to be designed in a certain way to comply with federal and state DOT standards and pass inspection. The electrical system in newer vehicles won't allow the aftermarket hand controls electrical system be hard wired into the cars electric system without separating the 2 systems with relays. Fortunately, in my cars, I can use the mechanical hand controls system but have built and installed the electrical hand controls in cars before...

[@corranda]

That thing “fired” right up!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

🤣🤣🤣 GOOD ONE!

[@hughkoontz2166]

Awesome of you to travel that far and help him out!

[@mikechiodetti4482]

What a nightmare! I used to have similar problems with aftermarket installs at Water & Power before I retired. Some of the installs had to be reversed engineered to figure out how they worked. I even made my own wiring diagrams for future use which did happen. Problem was trying to get info from the aftermarket installer companies. It was non existent! Great Work Ivan! In my case the installs were "low bid."

[@amundsen575]

Handicap vans have a lot of safety and aux connections to the fuse panels also custom firmware flashed into some modules that should not be updated. getting wiring diagrams from the aftermarket up-fitter is not easy as they only get them to authorized shops.

[@05c50]

Nice work Ivan, as always. You always impress me with your ability to think through problems even in somewhat bad conditions (working outside in the cold). It's great that the owner has his wheels back on the road, but I would suggest/recomend/encourage the owner to contact the aftermarket manufacturer to find out why the "fuel pump" wiring has been modified and why they feel it should be that way. Although the installation of most aftermarket accessories can sometime be crude, they usually are designed for a certain purpose. I'm assuming that the van worked for years with the wires installed, so it should still work that way.

[@jeffryblackmon4846]

Asking for information will get nowhere. The answer will be: 1 we don't know 2 it's proprietary 3 a blank stare. I've seen a friend's pickup truck modified with a breath analyzer. The wiring was butchered. I'm sure that reputable companies exist, and they are difficult to find. Nice work, Ivan. There were certainly confusing wiring mods.

[@hightttech]

@@jeffryblackmon4846: EXACTLY. I've had fleet accounts with ambulances and catering trucks; some wiring looks beautiful and schematics are actually posted in the coach someplace, while others look like the worst alarm-install-gone-wrong mess you can imagine. Coach builders never provide good support, in my experience.

[@MrDedwardk]

😂🤣 Fire 🔥 Fire 🔥 Ivan almost stopped dropped and rolled 😁 Excellent Video Ivan 👍

[@dwoodog]

One of the best ones yet. Always feel so satisfying when you look at aftermarket wires and like.... this crap is sooooooo gone!!!

[@bluejayoutpost9170]

Ivan at 1:32 we'll always remember that smile 😃 and a most refreshing comment~helping someone out. Peace be with you and yours my friend~thank you~

[@htownblue11]

Way to go Ivan. You knew the moment you saw it that it could be a nightmare job, but luckily your skills were just what was needed.

[@basshunter428]

Nothing worse than trying to diagnose an issue when someone has added their "electrical expertise" to the equation! Chryslers are quirky enough (I know because I own one😆) without outside help! Great video, Ivan! 👍

[@daveunbranded]

The fact you can do that for him made my eyes sweaty

[@codyarizona4925]

Holy crap I've never seen so many aftermarket gadgets. Very impressive work PH! Made it look easy lol

[@daleharley744]

Thank you Ivan. You reinforce my faith in humanity. Bless you.

[@johnrewijk8371]

Ivan , i think you are a great guy for helping out on this one. If anybody can do this it probably you can do it ! Greetz John.

[@scottminer7702]

You gotta love "sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't" stuff.

[@simonjones7785]

some of the butchery done to these wheelchair access vehicles is disgusting we as chair users depend on these modified vehicles to get us to medical appointments as much as the supermarktet / BIg ups to you Ivan for sorting this for Patrick / keep on trucking LOL

[@davidparker9676]

I always find it useful to investigate the aftermarket wiring first. Most of the time it is related to poor workmanship from a stereo shop, alarm system, or other accessories. Whenever I buy a used car, I remove all of the aftermarket alarm & stereo wiring. I will redo the stereo wiring if it has an aftermarket head unit. It is amazing how many problems I have solved by simply removing all of that junk.

[@paulpaquette1961]

Awesome dedication and unsurpassed persistence. Nice Diag!

[@gregjones8501]

Out of a handful of techs Ivan is the guy who I aspire to be like the most! Great video as always!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Hey Greg! Thanks for the kind words bro. One way to get faster at diags is work outside in the cold... Makes you hustle haha

[@8power0]

I CAN'T STOP THINKING ABOUT WHAT WAS CONTROLLING THAT POWER TO THE FUEL PUMP FUSE ,,, WITH THE TIME DELAY IT TOOK TO SHUT OFF IT MUST HAVE BEEN A MODULE OF SOME KIND . THAT DIAGNOSTICS WAS ONE FOR THE BOOKS, THANKS FOR YOUR TIME, AND HOPE TO SEE MANY MORE !!!!!

[@dustcommander100]

SO really, it amounted to you having to troubleshoot without complete wiring diagrams. This is a very tough situation, but as usual, you were able to shine! It's crazy that they actually well-labeled wires for the fuel pump - obviously not going to the fuel pump....

[@scottschantz2553]

God bless you Ivan... This video was a great way to start my day. Great humanitarian effort to travel so far to help Patrick. I'm sure he was very grateful. Thank you again for taking us along on your journey. I love that you include the faults as well as the wins. It's true and real. Keep it up, I look forward to the next.

[@jonathans6265]

My god this mess is a utter nightmare of aftermarket stuff and wiring, glad you got it going

[@baxrok2.]

Quite an aftermarket mess, but as always you figured it out. Well done Ivan!

[@geraldguenard4095]

YVAN. you are an ace at troubleshooting. very interesting.

[@regreed.508]

Thanks brother helping another brother best be with you

[@kastooMcFry]

Good thing you kept looking. Replacing the ECM could have been an expensive mistake. I'm surprised because figured a place that makes those sorts of modifications really should have done a better job - it looked totally sh!thooked together. Besides doing a better job, they should really include some sort of documentation regarding the mods made because those special vans are expensive enough. Glad you helped the guy out, Ivan. Without you, he would have been stuck, screwed or both. Thanks!

[@mikefoehr235]

Would be nice if the conversion company provided a wiring diagram.

[@sumduma55]

I get the impression that the mobility company wants the job of fixing the vans when they break. If you think about it, not to many vehicles need this stuff or people can afford it so they likely need the revenue from repairs on top of of installations to remain busy all year round. I don't think they are going to offer help like wiring diagrams to others to do this work. Even when they fail st fixing it.

[@phillully4472]

well done once again Ivan... your making many happy repaired vehicle owners. I thoroughly enjoy watching and even learn great a approaches to finding solutions.

[@michaelweatherhead9470]

Ivan you let the smoke out😂😂😂

[@paulsullivan6392]

Skills, solution and charity. Not much else to note except to say well done my friend.

[@bombardier3qtrlbpsi]

Again great job Ivan. And thanks for sharing your knowledge on all these repairs.

[@roxanneabbott8424]

That's incredible! I'm sure Patrick is so happy! Blessings on you!

[@billscott2472]

Very nice job Ivan. Nice of you helping him out.

[@raymondjones7489]

Awesome video Ivan!!...it's great to help people out!!👍👍😎

[@NoName-yr1jv]

Well done Ivan !

[@MrGMATech]

Excellent Ivan

[@mkadair]

Fantastic Ivan!

[@karlkoenigstein4138]

Ivan, you are simply fearless! Well done, amazing diagnostic…

[@jamesu]

Thanks for the video Ivan. Awesome as always.

[@TheDaisyraven]

you, Ivan, are a hero

[@michaelskane8149]

Love your videos maybe you could do a video for us diy mechanics on what you think would be needed for tools for a basic setup for tracking down and diagnosing electrical issues Thanks again

[@ChrisWilliams-pu8pj]

Great job Ivan! Always enjoy the process.

[@shaffere33]

Awesome job Ivan!

[@pingpong9656]

Owner can take it back to wheel chair conversion people and get them to fix what ever is at the end of the wires... Difficult diagnosis - well done Ivan.

[@kenrobinson9737]

Cool... Good on you for helping..

[@johnpetersen8116]

Well done, Ivan! A good deed indeed!

[@ericseybold5609]

incredible video - a pleasure to watch and learn

[@kyletuttle9064]

Great job Ivan

[@chateaumedia]

Awesome fun repair as usual. Great 'honest 'mechanic you are. I am a tinkerer fan.

[@chilee6994]

Very happy to see you hope this guy.

[@Ram14250]

Great work Ivan. That was nice of you to help him!

[@r.weaver3769]

Kudos Ivan.

[@GeneG-wk2mz]

Excellent work you the greatest. Patrick I’m glad you back in the road again

[@jackschissler255]

Ivan, You do great work. I feel bad for disabled people, they seem to get screwed a lot, it’s good to know someone like Ivan can help them. 👍

[@rrmech11]

That was very inspiring Ivan. 👍👍

[@Ken_in_Wisconsin]

I actually cheered and clapped the first time it started!

[@elpuerco6059]

God bless you, Ivan. Truly.

[@hooptierescue2540]

That reminds me: I gotta make sure to get a fire extinguisher for my mobile diag biz

[@nowthatsfunny1]

Good job as always. You made me think of Beavis and Butthead when you said..."Fire! Fire!" 😆

[@rickrogers2649]

God bless you Ivan for using your amazing skills to help out someone in need. Diagnostic lessons and life lessons here for sure !!👍👍

[@ludvigjakobsson9347]

Great work !!

[@nathanthornton5085]

You’re a good guy! Great work getting that fella on the open independently again.