When A Member In Our Church Shared A Holocaust Meme

You may have noticed an emerging group of dissidents who are starting to challenge the historical narrative surrounding World War 2. The main reason for this is the theory that the events around this war have become the new founding mythologies for a rebranded America that is weak and impotent. As people have questioned the historical record some onlookers have become alarmed. To be sure these onlookers have some valid concerns, but recently some have come out and actually called for these dissidents to be put under church discipline for their views about World War 2. Is this really an issue that warrants Church discipline? Tune in now to find out.
Get your tickets now for our 2025 Conference. Christ Is King: How To Defeat Trash World at ⁠rightresponsec...⁠
MINISTRY SPONSORS:
Squirrelly Joes Coffee - Caffeinating The Modern Reformation
Our audience can get a free bag of coffee (just pay shipping) by visiting ⁠squirrellyjoes... ⁠
The Word Soap
thewordsoap.com
Reece Fund. Christian Capital. Boldly Deployed
www.reecefund....
Private Family Banking
Set up a FREE Private Family Banking Discovery call using the link below: calendly.com/f... FREE 30-Minute Discovery Call - Private Family Banking - Chuck DeLadurantey - Private Family Banking In this call, I will walk you through the WHY and the HOW of Private Family Banking and show you how to set it up with NO NEW MONEY, just a CHANGE IN YOUR CASH FLOW calendly.com Chuck DeLadurantey Partner at Private Family Banking Text (BANKING) to 321-421-5213 My Digital Business Card Mobile: [phone]
Paxmail.CC: Drive, Docs, Email For A Free People
Visit paxmail.cc/

[@joeyrose1245]

Pastor Joel, I love how you handled the situation with the member of your church. Incredible! You are a great Godly leader! Your church is blessed to have you as their Pastor!

[@jackjones3657]

Wow, what an idea to have a modern pastor who actually goes to the accused person to find the reality of the situation instead of running with the mob and throwing stones!! This is a Bible-based pastor who actually fears God and seeks first His Will.

[@PerrinAybara1619]

God bless you for standing by this young man and not allowing him to be publicly crucified ❤️🙏🏻

[@david8905]

You gentlemen are correctly identifying the problems our nation is facing. Thank you for being straightforward and honest.

[@ferdd9810]

This makes me more inclined to move to Texas.

[@sojourner8208]

Texas will likely be a blue state in less than ten years. Joel wasn't the only Californian who moved there in the last 6 years. Texas is in a better position to turn around than CA, NY, or Minnesota, to be sure, but having lived there for most of my life, I have my doubts.

[@ferdd9810]

@@sojourner8208 Texas blue!? Noooooooooooooo... hold the line Boyz

[@haiasinosdnah0813]

@@sojourner8208Joel isn’t a Californian, he was born and raised in Texas and only went to California to church plant. He later decided to return to his home state of Texas where his parents are at.

[@throwawaypt2throwawaypt2-xp8nx]

im moving to Alaska actually

[@callummicke5478]

@@throwawaypt2throwawaypt2-xp8nxme too

[@marlenestewart7442]

Wes's statement is so well thought out. This is the US. We do not need to put on the whole armour of "antique nationalism."

[@davidkintner540]

“We fought the wrong enemy.” -Patton

[@lindsay.coggin]

What a strong statement.

[@LifeandLifeMoreAbundantly]

who was the real enemy?

[@run-j4v]

The Soviet Union.

[@RusskiyMed]

To be fair, history is written by the victors of war. Listen to the painters speeches in English. Doesn’t excuse anything he did but some of his visions and ideas for Europe were definitely correct. Especially his predictions about Western Europe today being invaded by mongoloids .

[@david8905]

Patton became a problem for Ike and the establishment so he had to be removed...permanently.

[@nothin2pruv]

Ha funny meme. We should pray for the Jew. Because they actually need Christ

[@patrickc3419]

Yes, the vast vast majority of Jews need Christ as savior and Lord. With that said, would it still be funny if one of your relatives had been killed in the Holocaust?

[@patrickc3419]

They absolutely need Christ, yes. I don’t think I follow though; what specifically about the meme was funny?

[@jennieweston6767]

I think the meme is pretty disgusting, not funny.

[@Truttle]

So many men for whom the world has gone mad and so many voices telling them it's their own fault. This channel's an oasis.

[@nathaliavmonteiro]

So wonderful to see how you’ve stood in the gap for your congregation Pastor Joel! This is so admirable. I wish more pastors would do this but alas, we have so many pastors today who would prefer to win cultural points over shepherding their sheep with love and truth. This is what good pastoring looks like. SDG for your work Pastor Joel 🙏💗

[@navykip]

Thank you pastor Joel. This was an enlightening conversation.

[@JesusChristisYourLordandGod]

Just a humble correction for Pastor Joel. "Begging the question" is a logical fallacy (circular reasoning). Instead, "Raising the question" would be the correct expression. Love your content!

[@RightResponseMinistries]

@@JesusChristisYourLordandGod appreciated.

[@lindsay.coggin]

Haha. I notice that also. 😂 it’s a common mistake and one my husband has pointed out to me many times.

[@virtualpilgrim8645]

Greg Bhansen used that phrase all the time... ("Begs the question")

[@reneeski9050]

Thank you for having the honor and mercy of our precious lord for this young man .I'm a wife and mother, and I praise God for leading me to your channel as a mother to young men. I praise God for being able to share your contact with them and the godly example you are for them .I have to say I'm disappointed but not shocked of the behavior of these other pastors. They sound like gossipy drama stirring women, just my take

[@Mr1Anvil1]

Culturally this may be the best and most important Right Response podcast to date. The amount of courage on display phenomenal. Thank you. I have shared this with all my friends, and in groups that need to see that the Truth matters and discussing some hard topics is necessary. And more pastors need to be bold about it. Bless you all at RRM

[@N81999]

I was thinking this is the best episode in a while showing discerning brakes without punching right

[@ferdd9810]

@@Mr1Anvil1 💯

[@YTTraveler777]

Maybe my comments will be remembered as important but the feeling of the video is sympathy for Nazi sympathizers but to hell with "boomers".

[@ferdd9810]

@@YTTraveler777 I don't see how "the hell with boomers" is Christ like my guy

[@YTTraveler777]

​@@ferdd9810me either.

[@jaxonlindsey9457]

Tobias Riemenshcneider should be disciplined by his own church.

[@cassivellaunushonestus4927]

Clearly this pastor sinned against this young man by taking this public.

[@theMolluskMan]

Absolutely. He is bizarrely vindictive for some reason. Granted, Germans are known for being, well, tattletales. But ever since the war, they have been so brainwashed and brow-beaten into self-flagellation that they turn on anyone who questions their guilt with a fear and a fury that can be likened only to religious fundamentalism. They are a conquered people. I hope they shall not always be so.

[@haiasinosdnah0813]

I’m assuming you’re talking about the young gent’s former pastor and not pastor Joel 🤔

[@YTTraveler777]

Whoever supplied the young man with his Nazi sympathy viewpoints sinned too.

[@cassivellaunushonestus4927]

@@haiasinosdnah0813 Affirmative

[@cassivellaunushonestus4927]

@@YTTraveler777 I believe pastor Joel made it clear the young man does not have Nazi sympathies. He just questions the established narrative.

[@vladyakubets]

The way Joel and Michael addressed this issue is what we need more of, and not immediate damnation to hell for questioning history.

[@YTTraveler777]

And if the questioners are proven false with their alternative historical narratives will they retract their theories or double down? I find the conspiracy community to be one of egomaniacs lusting after secret knowledge.

[@titustschetter9279]

Wow Joel ... you actually took the time to sit down with a member of your church to have a mature discussion instead of simply ostracizing the person from a distance, hoping he will go away on his own ... I hope Pasters will learn from this . We definitely have a pandemic of ifimante leaders . May God bless you .

[@Eric-jt8yx]

Thank you for sharing this information. My family and I appreciate the way you handled this

[@mrich21087]

The KZbin fact checking link below this video says it all.

[@nathanieldunham6990]

Whereas this specific individual may have only shared this image privately, I have seen the same image shared by others, including reformed individuals posting in reformed groups. Is it not possible that some of the public reaction has been to the meme, in general and not this young man sharing it privately in specific? If I have seen it posted by others, I'm sure others have as well.

[@genieharris5661]

You go, Joel! You continue to bring insights that I don’t see being handled anywhere else. Praying you continue to be brave, biblical, showing tough love to the Church. (BTW - I am a boomer - love your content, and so glad we found you during C-D. Our church background journey is very similar to yours….God leads His children faithfully!).

[@RightResponseMinistries]

@@genieharris5661 Welcome Boomer friend! Grateful for your support. 😊

[@ZaklogtheGreat]

Wait, is this a church where I might actually be able to speak my mind? I didn’t know those still existed in America.

[@run-j4v]

Joel, you once said that anger is derived from when something you love is threatened. Even well meaning Christians struggle to do more than mildly rant when God and his law are attacked from both inside and outside the church. In contrast these same Christians manage to muster up the furry of a small sun if you question or mock the official narrative about a particular historical event. This is a miss placed love (if not a down right idol) and they should repent of that.

[@YTTraveler777]

Or maybe different other lies are no better or even worse than the "narrative." And truth is important.

[@YTTraveler777]

The lust for secret knowledge is much much more obvious idolatry.

[@run-j4v]

Your clearly not in the game. There is plenty on information out there that brings into questions the "truest event in all of the 20th century". If you're advocating for church discipline for denying this event than you're just showing us who your god really is.

[@YTTraveler777]

​@@run-j4vBy "the game" do you mean your 4chan conspiracy theory chat group? Your God is your lust for secret knowledge.

[@YTTraveler777]

​@@run-j4vI've been in and out of conspiracy theory circles since before you were born no doubt. I've been through all of it. One thing I finally came to understand is that the alternative sources of information lie just as much.

[@skillz8363]

Thank you for showing the big picture and not caving in. Who can find such biblical integrity and strength. The meme is uncomfortable for me, but the situation handled with such grace

[@hplunkett]

Interesting back story on the meme

[@jaholland42]

There is a reason that when i joined my church; i spaced out my social media. I was an early advent gremlin online.

[@anotherlook6930]

It's because it went to Germany. That kind of stuff is illegal there. The pastor in Germany is doing what he's doing probably simply so he doesn't lose his own job there.

[@35USCode]

"Taking it to the church" and suspension from the Table / excommunication are the end stages of the church discipline process, not the whole thing. From what I've seen, in the vast majority of cases where someone is inclined towards repentance, it stays in the private phases. Keeping the matter among the congregant and the session is a feature, not a bug.

[@Chidar]

Thanks!

[@RightResponseMinistries]

@@Chidar incredibly kind. Thank you.

[@PostMillMan]

Revelation 21 talks about kings being present in the New Heaven & the New Earth which will be a perfect place

[@RightResponseMinistries]

@@PostMillMan good insight.

[@dewolfish270]

Side note: someone who has spent 1000s of hours digging into history is Victor Davis Hanson, and his book The Second World Wars is fantastic. Good place to start.

[@theMolluskMan]

Also the Zoomer Historian channel on KZbin

[@YTTraveler777]

​@@theMolluskManhahahaha! No. Zoomer dude is ridiculous.

[@anotherlook6930]

"I have published this little book, so that I might be found among those who opposed such poisonous activities of the Jews, and who warned the Christians to be on their guard against them." Martin Luther 1543.

[@Mamabear0629]

Looking forward to the Israel series. Ideas have consequences and you are connecting the dots and explaining it clearly between dispensational eschatology and financial and military support to Israel. Praying that people wake up before all of our young men are drafted into a pointless war and we risk the security of our own ailing country by getting further involved.

[@talianun3259]

2 hours! I thought you said you didn't want to talk about this? 😂

[@AdamSmith-po5pd]

Hmm. The noticing really bothers the boomers.

[@YTTraveler777]

Ageist much? Respect your elders boy.

[@ReformedSooner24]

@@YTTraveler777oh we do. But critiques are not inherently disrespectful.

[@YTTraveler777]

​@@ReformedSooner24Reduction of someone down to their age group with a slur like "boomer" shows disrespect. Don't deny it.

[@AdamSmith-po5pd]

I’m older than both of these co hosts and I often listen to Doug Wilson and occasionally James White going back quite a while. There are many based boomers of course. They have been more deeply the product of social engineering on this topic and find it much more difficult to even allow questions. It is an imprecise generalization similar maybe to the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor doesn’t mean every single Japanese person was engaged in the bombing.

[@sdg212]

Pastor Joel, thank you for speaking on this issue. There is a BBC documentary called The Savage Peace. Check out the description of the documentary and if you decide to watch it, be advised that it is graphic.

[@JorgSingh-b3z]

The truth shall set you free

[@YTTraveler777]

....and the truth will not be found in the dark corners of the internet.

[@JorgSingh-b3z]

@@YTTraveler777 It can be found at the institute of historical review

[@YTTraveler777]

​@@JorgSingh-b3z😂

[@patrickc3419]

⁠@@JorgSingh-b3z Sir, the Institute of Historical Review is a fringe, unbiblical, attention-seeking organization which advocates Holocaust denial.

[@patrickc3419]

⁠@@JorgSingh-b3z Sir, you and I both know what the Institute for Historic Review is; an unbiblical, vile organization which advocates a denial of this mass murder of 12 million people.

[@maryg2915]

I’d be interested to hear your opinion about the rise of Leninist Bolshevik groups in the US. Two of the largest are the Revolutionary Communists of America (RCA) and the Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL). Both groups are growing and no one seems to be paying attention. a

[@h.f.8432]

It seems strange that this is being framed as though Tobias was attacking his former parishioner. I’m not saying the way he handled it was a exactly right, but I won’t jump to the conclusion that his motive was to “attack” the guy. He probably feared for his soul and was more concerned with how he got to this point and how to help him and others out of that quagmire than with trying to character assassinate him. Could be wrong, but I won’t just conclude that “he’s lost his mind,” and “no one will remember his name.”

[@RightResponseMinistries]

@@h.f.8432 completely fair. And I tend to agree with you. My main point of disagreement is not his pursuit of this young man, but his decision to share the private situation with so many others.

[@ZaklogtheGreat]

Where are the bodies?

[@Ransetsu]

This kid sounds based and his buddy is chill too. The other loser sounds cringe.

[@throwawaypt2throwawaypt2-xp8nx]

that is wild, trying to kick sm out of church over a meme, that why ill never download any social media

[@LintCollection]

Well done

[@JonJaeden]

Not so sure without the fall we would have kings. It certainly was not the model for Israel when the people demanded Samuel give them a king. Monarchy replaced a system characterized by by decentralized governance we say we want.

[@ReformedSooner24]

But God said they would have a king back in Deuteronomy. The plan was always for them to have a king. Monarchy is natural and that’s why Christ is a King. The problem was Israel 1. Demanded it 2. Before God said it was time for one. They got a bad king because of their disobedience and arrogance towards God.

[@JonJaeden]

@@ReformedSooner24 I don't read Dt 17 as saying they WILL have a king. It says WHEN they demand a king. That portion of the passage is descriptive, not prescriptive. The passage then continues to indeed prescribe limits tied to the Law to prevent the tyranny kings bring.

[@ReformedSooner24]

@@JonJaeden yeah in light of verse 15 I don’t read it that way at all. I also reject this modern notion that “king = tyranny”. Our modern representative democracies are tyrannies and they have far more power than any king of old could dream of having.

[@SiftingPerspective]

The young man that shared the meme did it in the most innocent and private way someone could have possibly done it... and STILL is attacked. It goes to show that it doesnt matter how boldly or quietly you express your views, the modern church will still try to police your views, humor, and what questions are allowed to be asked. This is unacceptable and every pastor that thought this was an issue that warranted church discipline needs to step down or seriously take a step back to reevaluate their level of wisdom as this demonstrates a severe lack of wisdom on their part... but after the example set in 2020, it shouldnt be a surprise most church leaders severely lack wisdom.

[@SalsaSippin_]

They also teach OSAS and that nobody could ever become a Saint. They claimed that we can only walk in the flesh.

[@SiftingPerspective]

@@SalsaSippin_ I dont think the "nobody can become a saint" thing is true. most churches believe everyone saved is a saint. I think the catholic church are the only ones that elevate sainthood to a unique category. but I support your freedom to have qualms regardless.

[@YTTraveler777]

because your sin will find you out.

[@harrykromer2296]

Pastor Joel can you do a video just on Talmudic Judaism? You had some strong opinions buried in the middle of this video and it'd be nice if You had just one video focused on that because It's hard to find

[@JRRodriguez-nu7po]

The former pastor who shared this private meme ought face church discipline. As a former pastor he had a duty to respect privacy and talk to his former charge. I'm in no way in favor of the meme. As a Christian 47 years my opinion of pastors in general continues to sink. Yes there's some good ones.

[@YTTraveler777]

Nobody who is outraged by the meme even cares about the "young man" nor knows who it is. The outrage is at the meme itself and the fact that it would be shared and liked by people in a Reformed Protestant circle at all. This sort of thing has to be snuffed out just as much as any heresy. Absolute denial of history and distrust of every institution out of paranoia leads one to dark corners of the internet where eventually they not only start to rethink major historical events but indeed pick up and believe in heretical teachings too. Conspiracy theory world is kin to false doctrine world. I've seen it. I know a guy who started at 9-11 truther stuff. That led to Civil War revision then to Zionist hysteria and Nazi sympathy then to questions about early church councils and the Nician creed. He went apostate from his protestant church and became a Muslim. Every move was tied to the next and from his perspective it was all a journey looking for truth.

[@EmDubbs]

3rd temple in Temple, TX.

[@adammcphail5565]

Listening now

[@TrumpsEarSpeaks-m8i]

"And this is why young men will continue to come to me and no one will remember your name". Irrespective of the meme controversy, Brother Joel, do you not recognize the spirit of pride in what you said here? Take heed. Pride goeth before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall.

[@RightResponseMinistries]

@@TrumpsEarSpeaks-m8i I’m stated what is true. I sincerely do not want it to be true.

[@TrumpsEarSpeaks-m8i]

@@RightResponseMinistries Which part do you not want to be true? "The young men will continue to come to me" part or the "No one will remember your name" part."

[@FITSOZOLIFE]

200 years together

[@Mamabear0629]

Gotta love how Wikipedia notes were added to this video.

[@RightResponseMinistries]

@@Mamabear0629 😂

[@seattlecloudchaser7295]

I have 1 question: do you listen to the Stone Choir guys and agree with their research?

[@stuffipost137]

41 minutes in and Joels explains the meme in question. I'll be honest, I saw it and was outraged, too. It's evil. To question a history we've been taught is fine. To reduce the slaughter of innocent people to a slanderous accusation of laziness is absolutely evil. Pathetic, Joel. This is pathetic.

[@patrickc3419]

💯. At the very least, this man should have been disciplined by the church, and if he did not repent, should have been excommunicated. This is a very sick group of people.

[@ReformedSooner24]

🚨🚨Boomer-brain alert 🚨🚨

[@YTTraveler777]

​@@ReformedSooner24"boomerbrain" ageist alert. You're a punkass little puke. Should tan your hide behind the woodshed little boy.

[@ReformedSooner24]

@@patrickc3419no we’re just not slaves to the post-war consensus

[@YTTraveler777]

​@@ReformedSooner24How old are you? Real question.

[@nolanhoiting]

Great breakdown, thanks guys.

[@YTTraveler777]

By breakdown you mean of course the nuancing away of holocaust denial.

[@zach2923]

Unbelievably based.

[@staceykrahn]

Very interesting episode.

[@naomimay82]

The mainline consensus on the Holocaust is very much wrong. There are reasons that there has been so much propaganda pushed regarding the Holocaust. There are reasons that you are not allowed to question it and that it is even illegal in some countries to ask questions or even deny parts of the stories that we have been told. We should ALWAYS question the narrative. I am happy to hear that you stood by your church member in good standing on this. NOTE: My family came out of Nazi German AFTER WWII. My family immigrated here from Germany in 1956. Many lies have been told about what happened in WWII. Remember that the victors always write the history and the victors demonize the losers to justify their actions during a war.

[@jacobmark4198]

“Hitler used Christian rhetoric but also had an infatuation with the occult”…. I would really like to see the speeches/writings proving that he was an occultist, because from what I can tell he was as much a Christian as Donald Trump is a Christian….which is barely at most

[@patrickc3419]

Adolf Hitler was not a Christian ; nor is Donald Trump a Christian.

[@AndrewNickles]

Hitler’s religious views were… complicated. On one hand, he did openly talk about and praise Jesus, but it really wasn’t as the Crucified Christ. The Jesus of Hitler was imagined more as an Aryan political agitator against the Jews, and Hitler himself had (privately) spoken quite negatively of Christianity. This could primarily be due to Germany being 90%+ Christian at the time. Nazi policy however seemed to take a stance on religious organizations that could be summarized as “as long as you don’t preach against us and praise us, you’re okay.” Just a few examples: - The promotion of Göttglaubig (“God-Belief”) as a vague, non-denominational monotheism among hardcore Nazis. - SS men being (on paper) forbidden from Christian marriages; they had their own ceremonies, but again popular pressure kept it from being widely enforced. - Promotion of social Darwinism as state policy, including the teaching of evolution as dogma in German schools. - Policies such as Aktion T4, which mandated the euthanasia of infants and toddlers with disabilities; the policy was later moved from the public sphere after mass outcry. - The promotion of “Positive Christianity” (which didn’t hinge itself on historical creeds or Christ’s divinity) against “Negative Christianity” (which was “Jewish” Christianity). - Suppression of religious organizations, such as Catholic newspapers, as well as the forced defrocking of any minister with Jewish blood. - Sending ministers to the camps for speaking out. - The persecution of the “Confessing Church” and attempted creation of a “National Reich Church” directly under the control of the state. Based on what we *do* know, Hitler’s religious views could be best defined as a vaguely pantheistic belief in Nature as God, with the underlying dogma that the Führer was the Messiah of Germany and rejection of a universal church in favor of a “blood and soil” doctrine. Jesus in this system could best be explained as existing in a similar manner to how He is treated in Islam- not as the God-Man, but as a prophet of a new ideology.

[@SimonJification]

I believe the epistemological question people need to learn to ask themselves is: "why must I believe that?" It turns out the answer in a staggering amount of occasions is: "because else you are not a good person." That's the wrong answer.

[@YTTraveler777]

No. It's about what is true and having standards for information gathering. Being consistent with your skepticism. Conspiracy theorists can not admit that they are selectively skeptical.

[@SimonJification]

@@YTTraveler777 Bah, it isn't about what's true. People generally don't want truth. They want to be liked and avoid trouble.

[@YTTraveler777]

​@@SimonJificationNot in the Reformed camp. Do you even know this camp?

[@YTTraveler777]

​@@SimonJificationThe Reformed go out if their way to create even more trouble in the search for the truth. We are a religious sect not averse to trouble or infighting. We do not care about popularity many of us.

[@SimonJification]

@@YTTraveler777 Yes, also in the reformed camp. Depends on the topic, but absolutely. It is the general disposition of any sinner in any camp.

[@liveluke9.236]

Saying those who win write the history books utterly destroys any type of historical knowledge. According to that thinking 80 years from now you should question the validity of the flooding happening in the mountains of Appalachia. Also, all the creeds and counsels of the church, the reformation itself should not be thought of as trustworthy according to that statement. Very poor thinking.

[@YTTraveler777]

Amen. If only winners write how do we know anything bad about them? This over used saying is just an excuse for arguments of incredulity.

[@marlenestewart7442]

Did the person in Germany feel that he was put at risk due to the illegality of holocaust denial in that country when the meme was sent to him?

[@RightResponseMinistries]

@@marlenestewart7442 I doubt it. He could have deleted it. Instead, it appears he shared it with others. Doesn’t seem like something a person would do if they thought they were in danger.

[@anasava7674]

Thank you pastor!

[@h.f.8432]

Having listened to the whole explanation, I appreciated the clarification, and agree with a lot that was said. Unfortunately, this was not based. Firstly, was the man in question’s name ever publicly revealed? If not, then at least the public discussion of the content seems reasonable. They’re not trying to besmirch the guy’s character, but they are engaging with his ideas. However, maybe I’m wrong on that detail? If they said his name, the situation’s different. I think that ex-communication is too harsh a penalty, but not every person publicly repudiating this gentleman’s ideas is calling for that, right? My second concern is the light treatment of Nazism. Whether or not we want to dispute numbers of deaths, the deaths of innocents definitely occurred in the Third Reich, and those deaths were horrific, sadistic and brutal, cut short by a hatred fueled by a deadly cultural mish-mash of atheism, Darwinism, nihilism and paganism cloaked in progressive, Louis Farrakhan-style “Christianity.” So maybe Germany got a few things right before the Nazis? Maybe. So maybe the Russian liberals were right to free the serfs, but, you know, getting all warm and fuzzy about Lenin would be seriously stupid. It’s one thing to criticize certain aspects of the postwar consensus. But where’s the clear, firm word of rebuke to the movement, that, in the name of Christianity, is truly promoting Nazi nostalgia and hatred of Jews? You’d have to be blind not to see it. Is it that hard to say that we love Jews, even if we hate their unbelief? It seems pretty clear that was the Apostle Paul’s perspective. It looks like the meme in question would be the equivalent of saying: “Hey Mom, what were the gulags?” “They were where the landowners had to do manual labor for the first time, and so they said it killed them.” Do we really not see the problem here? If a pastor had that sent to him by a former parishioner, he would be justifiably appalled, and wonder what kind of rotten wokeness and bitterness had gotten into the culture of that Church. Thus hetoric is surprisingly reminiscent of feminism, liberation theology and Phil Vischer-ism (Lord love him). “Don’t you get that all these bad things happened that God dislikes, so why don’t you have more sympathy when people do or believe bad stuff? They’ve been through a bunch and been lied to an mistreated- just EMPATHIZE!!” No, sir, no. The truth is precise and essential. I’m not saying this couldn’t have been handled better by the gentleman’s former pastor and others who called out his views, but- you didn’t handle it perfectly either. As his pastor, you should have treated this with the same loving firmness you would have if you had a Stalin fan or a BLM fan in your Church- by gently but clearly delineating all the ways those views are wrong-headed and silly. That’s what a strong pastor does. They don’t let their sheep get ravaged by wolves.

[@h.f.8432]

Sorry if my wording is too harsh- I really respect you and so much you do I agree with and greatly appreciate.

[@YTTraveler777]

​@@h.f.8432Amen and amen. No, you could be harsher because Joel is insulated with too many around him telling him he is in fact perfect.

[@h.f.8432]

May I also add that it doesn’t seem that anyone named your Church, so, again, the critics don’t seem to be bent on painting with a broad brush or character assasinating

[@doomerquiet1909]

The amount of true love Joel is showing by standing between his sheep and the WWII consensus boomers honestly makes me tear up a little.

[@YTTraveler777]

I don't think downplaying Conspiracy theory riddled thinking is loving.

[@Flavioftac]

What did James White and Wilson said?

[@h.f.8432]

One thing I definitely agree with is that we shouldn’t push others away because they’re “icky.” Obviously this guy’s heart was right in many ways. I think it should be treated very similarly to how I hope a solid, based black pastor would help a BLM-supporting young woman in his congregation- with love, firmness, and facts. It is true we shouldn’t jump to conclusions about others or be uncharitable to them because their particular false ideas are not acceptable in the mainstream

[@YTTraveler777]

But his ideas are false. We agree? The problem is confusion on what is opinion worthy and what is fact. We can be soft on opinions over truly debatable topics that no one has complete knowledge of but when someone has an opinion of something pretty well established that denies it they are heading into an epistemological realm of relativism or paranoid selective hyper skepticism or just a faithlessness in God's Sovereignty and a superiority of one's own senses, experience and thought. All conspiracy theory rabbit holes on the internet can lead to denial of Christ. Satan is the father of lies and due to distrust of established sources of information we can be lied to by the alternative sources offered in replacement. The Left have there false narratives but so does the right. They have 1619 project. We got to deal with stuff like holocaust denial and civil war revisionist history. We can't just ignore it like it's just harmless speculation.

[@YTTraveler777]

Many in this comment section are everywhere from skeptical about the numbers killed by Nazis to full blown "Hitler was actually the good guy!"

[@gabecartwright1939]

so true kings

[@RebekkaMH13]

Who got mad at questions being asked? Which questions did they get mad over? Which question did they all talk and blogg about? As far as I understand, they're talking about a meme that doesn't question anything at all, but instead strongly implies assertions like "They don't do manual labor." & "They didn't die in camps like that." Which means the entire framing of this conversation is completely off and the controversy is not about "questioning" at all.

[@RebekkaMH13]

Also, I'm interested in the following: Please show me the crowd who start with "maybe we were lied to" and end up with "I just don't know exactly what happened 80 years ago". That's not what I see. They usually pretend to be questioning while asserting to know exactly what happened and whose fault it was. Claiming to know exactly what happened, why, when and where isn't questioning. It's choosing to put faith in some things while dismissing others as lies. They want to claim to know the truth about the past without having to prove it and so they call it "questioning". Again: Show me the crowd who start questioning lies and end up with "I just don't know exactly what happened 80 years ago". That's not what's happening as far as I can tell. If I'm missing something, please point it out to me.

[@run-j4v]

You're clearly confused so let me explain.... when you spend 60 years crushing anyone who doesn't fall in line with the official narrative you create an atmosphere where people can't talk openly about these things. People with differing opinions about what happened have to speak around topics in order to share their conscience. If you're so offended about a brother not sharing your opinion about an event that happened to non Christians that you're willing to put said brother under church discipline, than you've made that event an idol and you should repent.

[@pilgrimpits8872]

​@@RebekkaMH13 Have you explored any revisionist/denialist content?

[@RebekkaMH13]

@@run-j4v You must not have read my comment. I didn't talk about who should and shouldn't be put under church discipline or anything of the sort. If you have the answers to any of the questions I actually asked, I'd love to hear them.

[@RebekkaMH13]

@@pilgrimpits8872 Have you explored any of my questions in the original post to the extent that you could provide answers?

[@K81620]

Wow this is insane....after hearing what the meme was I especially think this is crazy! Joel, you are doing the biblical way. Keep it up

[@joshuabateman6203]

Bring on Nick haha 😅

[@eg4848]

Dog none of these types of dudes think Nick is saved

[@PeterSawyer2626]

I had never heard about Dietrich Bonhoffers heretical views before. I've heard many Christians from different denominations from Lutherans to Baptists talk him up as a lion of the faith. I had never read him though. I googled some of his views and I am shocked. It might be helpful to do a deep dive into people like bonhoffer. Because many in the church are lionizing him.

[@YTTraveler777]

Yeah but even a deeper dive puts many of his musings into a context that makes his "heresies" far less unorthodox. People are calling him a liberal but he was fighting liberals of his day. Much confusion about him. Many of the concerning views are taken away from their context making the views look worse than they are.

[@mrsckh]

It seems like this individual thought his former pastor would agree with - or if not agree then find amusing - the content of the meme... otherwise, why would he send it if they are on good terms?

[@soapboxtheology]

You are going to have to say more than that, it feels like we lost WW2 simply because our culture is currently in judgment, what? How do those go together? Romans 1 is a better explanation.

[@grantvanbrimmer6471]

What doug wilson blog?

[@K81620]

I didn't know that about Bonhoeffer

[@YTTraveler777]

Better do your own research. Lately Joel Webbon is just reading radical unhinged theory makers and just taking their word for it.

[@YTTraveler777]

There seems to be a bunch of sources outlining various heresies but upon deeper searching you find that many of his "heresys" if put in the context of what he was musing over are not quit so unorthodox. Bonhofer is accused of being liberal but he was fighting liberals of his day. Much confusion .

[@YTTraveler777]

The problem though, with the meme is that it seems to suggest the holocaust did not happen. Thus it espouses untruth. Also I don't think there is any humour in it unless you have a internal disgust against Jews. If you do not hate Jews, you would not condone the meme.

[@AntiochConvert]

That-Thing-That-We-Aren't-Allowed-To-Question never happened.

[@patrickc3419]

Sir, you need to repent, as that’s a pretty vile, sinful thing to publicly post (which I can assure you was done mainly for the sake of being attention-seeking).

[@YTTraveler777]

Im tired of the term "boomer." Its a pejoritive leveled at people who arent even boomers. Its ageist. Its disrespectful. Its breaking the command to honor your fathers. Please stop it.

[@YTTraveler777]

I'm also tired of phrases like " post war consensus". Never defined. Just vague enough you can redefine it to level it at people older than oneself you don't agree with. The latest trending Strawman attack phrase.

[@throwawaypt2throwawaypt2-xp8nx]

we just making up words now? ageist , that's wild

[@Marvinglep]

@@throwawaypt2throwawaypt2-xp8nx It's also a word and a descriptive for those who reject ideas from those over an ill-defined age

[@nikhook9430]

Respecting your elders goes over their heads some CN people have a wild reinterpretation of Ephesians 4:29.

[@ReformedStudent1689]

To my knowledge it was the Boomers who coined that term for themselves. Also, words can be used in different ways. If I'm using the term boomer disrespectfully then that's not okay. If I use it in a way referring to boomers, as Pastor Webbon is, then it is not disrespectful.

[@throwawaypt2throwawaypt2-xp8nx]

who did the art for the thumbnail, or is it ai?

[@tanessacaines392]

Well done you guys!

[@Graplernapler]

I love it when I come accross a convo discussing the post war consensus… and the obligatory ‘topical context’ banner reminds me I am currently edging the consensus. Boy, one thing they (is ‘they’ too edgy?) know how to do is Irony.

[@liveluke9.236]

Blaming Churchill for the Jews dying in starvation is equivalent to the liberals blaming guns for killing people. Why were they in concentration camps? Also irony, quoting an author, Lewis, while also blaming him and his generation for the issues of today. Oh, I’m 44 and not a boomer. Because I know that will be the most concerning thing to everyone here.

[@nikhook9430]

If his fans can’t get you with the “boomer” they’ll get ya with the “in totally joking way” call you a pedophile.

[@ZaklogtheGreat]

Because they had proven themselves subversive enemies of the people. The U.S. ran similar camps in the Civil War and in other wars. People died in those camps. The only real war crime is losing the war.

[@Ephesians-rz7zp]

Joel you are on fire lately. As a full preterist I have disagreements with you on eschatology but I appreciate your bold stance against dispensationalism. The reality is that Christian Zionists have major influence over foreign affairs and it’s not a secret. Not enough people are discussing this and view it as harmless when it has real world consequences. I’m considered a heretic by mainstream Christianity for my eschatology but dispensationalists are considered within orthodoxy even though they believe in a future temple where the old covenant sacrificial system will be reinstated. Excellent work brother. Be encouraged. Blessings to you.

[@edgarcruz9471]

What one must ask themselves is why out of all the tragedies, deaths, catastrophes, etc. that happened throughout history it’s questioning the holocaust that’s considered a great evil and even illegal in some countries…makes you think

[@YTTraveler777]

Whats next Joel? "Are Kinnists really so bad!?"

[@PostMillMan]

I loved the line “ you need to ask that God would save you from boomer brain” 😂

[@TrumpsEarSpeaks-m8i]

I always ask to be delivered from Zoomer pain.

[@YTTraveler777]

Young men- "Ive been lied to by every institution!" Dark Corners of the internet- "buy this book that affirms all your paranoia." Me-you cant fight lies with other different lies.

[@Goliad_Respector]

I don’t think you know what you’re talking about. Do you have a calculator. Try the math. Have you looked at the evidence? No. I know you haven’t because no one needs to defend the truth. So you’re believing in a lie and you should maybe ask God for guidance?

[@YTTraveler777]

​@@Goliad_RespectorWhat a load of crap. The Bible is truth and has to be defended all the time.

[@YTTraveler777]

Joel Webbon, protecting your member from another pastors anger, cudos. But if I were in your place I would have simaltanously privately shamed your member for his lack of standards in information gathering and his foolishness in believing lies from Neo-Nazis....assuming you agree that they were lies. I think you give the people who live in the dark corners of the internet too much benefit of the doubt.

[@joshuamichael2463]

Every man in your church who doesn’t love Dixie is Sus

[@YTTraveler777]

Got it. Your great great great great grandfather owned a plantation.

[@YTTraveler777]

Holocaust denial and civil war revision are the Right's version of the Left's 1619 Project.

[@DoYouPlayCroquet]

👍

[@throwawaypt2throwawaypt2-xp8nx]

1984

[@michelejean2659]

👍

[@davechesser9062]

Find a pastor that will speak for you the way Pastor Joel speaks at 41:43. And 1:20:20 to 1:21:00 about "ask God to save you from Boomer Brain" was outstanding! This shows that us theological deplorables are making headway and the other side has noticed and is frantic to stem the tide. The outrageous demands are just beginning and likely to get more shrill as they lose ground to CN.

[@YTTraveler777]

The pride of youth.

[@YTTraveler777]

The youth do not own CN. What they own is CN done rashly and badly with the impatience and radical mood swings of youth.

[@Soulja4ChristWeAreAtWar]

What if they lied about and made up things about AH, including that he wasn't a Christian Prince and the 3rd R was actually good? What if they lied about that because they wanted to make their side the good guys, so they could easily push the post war consensus and make their rainbow side grow unempeeded? Like the Js said they wanted to do at that time, like In the book "You Gentiles", specifically the chapter "We The Destroyers"!?

[@YTTraveler777]

What if you question all reality until there is nothing left to trust in....not even the Bible....because the Nician council could have had some shenanigans? God is sovereign. We can trust the historical record. The amount of cover up to pull this off would be impossible. You need to stop living in a fantasy what if world.

[@YTTraveler777]

And who are "they"???

[@Soulja4ChristWeAreAtWar]

@@YTTraveler777 the Bible does not command blind trust without reason and reliable truth from eyewitness and natural witnesses. It says reasoned trust. To blindly trust narratives, especially the narratives of godless pagans is the height of foolishness. The Bible has all of those things. Ww2 narrative does not, especially when you look into both sides of the argument. Any arguments of anything should be able to stand up to scrutiny.

[@ProphecyisPattern-zt7tn]

I have met a holocaust survivor. I have heard interviews with survivors. Eye witnesses. Denying the holocaust is a lie from Satan, the great deceiver. Hitler was an anti-Christ. Anyone who admires that evil man will willingly follow The Man of Sin when he shows up.

[@Possum880]

For the algorithm!

[@YTTraveler777]

Joel Webbon, Im the best follower and commentor you have because I am more or less in your camp but not a yesman. I am not a sycophant. I will call you out on your crap. Just as I do with pastors I know personally. You need people like me. We hold you accountable. We keep you sharper.

[@theMolluskMan]

Say Christ is Lord

[@mrsckh]

And you're humble to boot.

[@TrumpsEarSpeaks-m8i]

@@theMolluskMan Or what will happen?

[@Tothehighwaysandbyways]

I’m sure your pastors love you there “calling out their crap”

[@YTTraveler777]

​@@TothehighwaysandbywaysNobody loves it.

[@YTTraveler777]

Joel Webbon, are you sure defending internet narcisist contrarian edgelords is a hill worth dying on?

[@YTTraveler777]

Nothing against edgelords. Holocaust denial and Nazi sympathy on the other hand....no, I will try, convict and condemn you all day every day and twice on Sunday ...unless you repent.

[@ReformedStudent1689]

Pastor Webbon, I appreciate how wise you are when it comes to controversial topics.