When Did Wrestling Fans Stop Liking Cool S***T? (The Flagship Podcast)

[@sajizzle2680]

For me it was around the time a bunch of wrestlers including some of my all time favorites started dropping dead because of debilitating painkiller addictions and CTE.

[@dsadams17]

So did you also stop watching action films?

[@benzo9059]

So like 30 years ago? Must have been pretty boring being a fun sponge and hating spots that these guys are incredibly well trained to take for literal decades.

[@Humorless_Wokescold]

Don't look up what was happening in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s. Plenty of wrestlers were dying because of the bumps you think are safe. If you bothered to check your assumptions you might realize you're a complete buffoon. And we can't have that.

[@Cynicayke]

For me it was seeing Dynamite Kid as a broken down, crippled, bitter mess of a man.

[@morpheusmatrix9207]

y'know that's probably it right there

[@multiplefutures8206]

"when being a smart mark was more important than being a fan." thats when. " said this was bad so it must be bad"

[@EvolvedHC7]

It was “real glass” just tempered glass which shatters different. That’s why he bled. Sugar glass or prop glass doesn’t cause blood at all. A lot of bottle shots to the head in wrestling tend to be sugar glass including I think in the whembley stadium stampede. Deathmatch wrestling and car spots in pro wrestling usually use some form of tempered glass which is far safer than other glasses since it shatters into pieces but still punctures. That was real glass although I think people use “sugar glass” when referring to tempered glass which isn’t correct! Just pointing it out since I think people don’t know!

[@Trill_Tour]

Don't let them see this. They won't come out and say they were wrong

[@darkforest4891]

That's what I assumed. Like the glass in a car windshield that shatters into a million pieces instead of turning into a bunch of knives that impale you. Anyway, the bump to the floor probably hurt more.

[@skill14]

I thought it was dope as fuck. Sue me

[@GregMcNeish]

I like the last point made here, about a lot of people not wanting - nor accepting that other people want - an actual alternative to WWE. I've never wanted anything other than a great WWE, all the way back to when I was first introduced to WCW in the mid 90s (I began watching WWF in 1990). What has always seemed so bizarre to me is how many people feel the need to hate-watch something they don't want, like all those people you described do when they check out AEW (and as I witnessed when I got into NJPW 15 years ago). I've watched a tiny bit of AEW to give it a shot, saw that it wasn't for me, and moved on with my life. I'm not the audience for AEW, and that's fine; I'm glad that other people enjoy it. I would like to add another perspective to one of the other things discussed, with regards to people who view wrestling as theatre as opposed to a simulated sport. I really like the term simulated sport, by the way. I've always had the view that wrestling is a form of theatre - which I've taken a lot of flak for, don't worry - but in a way I think we're closer together on it than the semantics indicate. I view wrestling as a form of theatre that's portraying a simulated sport. That's why I love it. With regard to dangerous things, you guys made great points that ALL wrestling is dangerous, and that it can be quite harmful to the immersion to be looking for things like wrestlers checking on each other and shit like that. When I'm REWATCHING a match, it can be cool to see little moments like that which were hidden in the performance the first time around, but when I'm watching a match for the first time I don't want to be thinking about any of that stuff. I want to be 9 years old again just getting lost in the action. And that's where I'd interject something counter to what you guys were saying, to add my perspective. When I'm watching a match and see something over-the-top dangerous (which usually comes in the form of a botch with a bad landing, or something like that), it sucks me out of the fantasy in the exact same way as what you were describing for the people who fawn over protection and checking on people. I get pulled out of it at least for a moment when I experience genuine concern for the human, instead of just viewing them as characters like I want to. After all, there's a reason I watch the simulated sport of wrestling instead of the actual sports of boxing, MMA, and other combat sports. I don't want to see people getting hurt. I want to see characters getting hurt. And for the record, I didn't see the spot in question (since I don't watch AEW), but even real glass isn't crazy dangerous. Just don't get a staph infection and you'll be fine.

[@michaelfarrow5817]

Genuine question: how can you watch and enjoy other wrestling and then go back to eat the slop that WWE has largely served up for the last 20 years? Does it go back to 1990 (for me also) and that when I saw WCW (well, two year old episodes of NWA Pro) in 1991, I thought that was better and that set our wrestling tastes?

[@davidcoombsbestmegadethalb9780]

well said bro you speak a lot of sense respect

[@kristopherduncan4739]

it’s not that we don’t like cool shit, it’s just done so often that it loses shine. this spot was sick, i’d just prefer stuff like this to be used to end deep rivalries if that makes sense

[@ModeRemyD]

I feel like the retirement match of a goat is more than an adequate time to do this spot. Especially since he was going out on a win, the only person sting could really put over was Darby. But let's be real that spot was so cool we gotta make sure no kids try jumping thru glass

[@nathanrodriguez914nr]

I've seen people take chair shots to the head and put through tables then and now. The difference is, they used to sell. Eddie Guerrero would take a stiff chair shot to the head and sell it. His last chair shot was in his last match. Mr. Kennedy lays it in and knocks him out. Do you remember what happened next? He was backstage selling a concussion with Batista and a trainer. Now, a person will take a chair shot, be thrown threw glass, be put through a table, and still get up and do flips. The "cool stuff" killed wrestlers bodies, but they did it to push a cool story for the fans. Now, its done to get "this is awesome" chants in one match, and then its forgotten later. The wrestlers are still killing their bodies, even worse now, for less. For a momentary pop, as opposed to a forever memorable moment in a story.

[@michaelfarrow5817]

So, laying on the floor for ages whilst your partner ends up 2-on-1 for most of the match is not selling. Well, that's me educated.

[@mohamadsorya6718]

i don't think it has to do with the TYPE of glass.. i think a lot of people just do not like the bump due to the impact on of Darby's back hitting the floor.. there was no "give" to the spot, and it may encourage other wrestlers to risk it like him.

[@mdp720]

Fans didn't stop liking cool shit, WWE fans were conditioned and propagandized into liking only one thing for decades and now they're incredibly tribalistic and full of bad faith arguments. I don't know how many times I've had to tell someone "not liking WWE doesn't make me an AEW stan, I watch ALL KINDS of wrestling".

[@mdp720]

I also have to laugh whenever someone says "when AEW folds, you'll come crawling back to WWE". No I won't, I'll just watch more puro/joshi/lucha/indies than I already do, because I HAVE THAT OPTION.

[@michaelfarrow5817]

WWE matches are way less safe because they have people involved who are of far-less experience too. Some of the bumps they take in NXT when these people can't even run the ropes correctly is sickening.

[@Raytheman581]

Fans didn't stop liking cool stuff, fans just started watching other stuff that isn't wrestling for cool stuff. Movies are better now, hell some things on tiktok are probably cooler to kids now that happens outside of wrestling. Now my issue is that its just done to often, I didn't care about the jack perry thing for glass. Most things in wrestling I just personally don't think is cool anymore. Wrestling has become more nerdy thanks to the IWC.

[@ihatemlife99]

probably because its cheap. If its used every week with the same people it becomes overplayed. Every indie show feels the need to do Deathmatches every week. Its become cheesy and lame. Imagine if an elimination chamber was on Raw every week. It wouldnt have the same feel would it?

[@MisterAlerion]

bunch of marks

[@tonyfng5081]

The only intelligent one on here

[@davidcoombsbestmegadethalb9780]

your a mark stop crying

[@davidcoombsbestmegadethalb9780]

speaking facts bro

[@whiskeylima4439]

Right? How dare they be fans. Only morons are fans. Stupid morons.

[@mvmnt.]

Since everyone wanted to be the one that was right and seen for being the bearer of big statements.

[@davidberry3738]

The problem here it is you believe that since YOU think it is "cool" everyone else needs to think its "cool" I didn't think it was cool and I don't think it made sense. It insulted the intelligence and took me straight out of the match I was no longer able to even pretend I was watching a wrestling match where I was invested, it instantly became a sideshow. If you liked it, you win. I can't stand things that are so over the top and illogical to the concept of winning an actual contest.

[@michaelfarrow5817]

You didn't watch the match, don't lie.

[@SirFooplesTheThird]

When people started taking Cornette's word as gospel. Notice how only his fans are bitching about it?

[@jamesball9608]

lol you say that as if Corny isn’t one of the most influential people in the industry’s history.

[@jackconorria4033]

Oh yeah, excuse us for not wanting people to end up in wheelchairs They did the spot just to do it. There was no logic or forward thinking that went into it. They just do things just cause. It’s all meaningless

[@davidcoombsbestmegadethalb9780]

@@jackconorria4033 like these comments are meaningless your all too sensitive its wrestling not ballet

[@BSO111968]

It's not that people don't like cool things anymore; it's the fact that AEW focuses solely on this. They lack variety and struggle with match structure, resorting to nonsensical gimmicks. If they use glass in a match fine , then it should be introduced in the build-up to make sense. Simply pulling it out randomly is foolish. When someone jumps from a 15-foot ladder through glass onto concrete and continues the match, it looks incredibly fake. If you are going to do it , it should incapacitate Draby, leading to a storyline of sting overcoming a 2-on-1 situation for a few mins. You don’t do the sting sons spots at the beginning you save them for the end. stings son help him out by taking out one of the bucks , allowing Sting to win. Alternatively, what should happen is Sting could put over the heel Bucks by losing in a 2 on 1 situation but still appears strong, avoiding the need for another tournament to crown new champs, who is likely the Bucks anyway. 🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️

[@thegarbagefly]

Definitely an interesting argument

[@JohnNeave]

You guys are reading my mind here. Best podcast week in and week out. Thanks.

[@ashtonarrows1974]

"When did wrestling fans stop liking cool shit?" When it started happening somewhere other than WWE, and the mindless drones feel the need to drag down anything that isn't their favoritest womanizers doing.

[@Cam987.]

Wrestling isn't real dumbass.

[@brentosp35]

I think death matches are stupid, but having said that, if it's done right, I like the occasional big, ridiculous, bloody spot. The problem I have with this spot is that it seems like the whole point was to just hurt himself instead of his opponent. One of the Bucks moved out of the way so fast it gave the appearance of no one ever being there, making what he did look insane for no reason. I mean, fuck it, if you're going to do it, just land on someone. And if that's too crazy, then this probably shouldn't have been done to begin with.

[@michaelfarrow5817]

There's a point to be made here, which is that the Kevin Dunn acolyte they hired from WWE to replace Bruce Mitchell is terrible and has no instinct for producing live television wrestling.

[@Mansamu]

Lol maybe its no longer cool?

[@mr.montana1384]

With that corewd of 16k it was

[@DanielHernandez-pq5cs]

Nah they’re used to the PG stuff. Think about it kids born in the Pg era are now 16+. They aren’t used the hardcore side of it and say dumb stuff like “aww this isn’t wrestling”. My comeback to that is it’s a different kind of art, it might not be your type of art but respect what these guys are putting themselves through

[@benzo9059]

A lot if it comes from, when it relates to AEW anyway, people being a "WWE fan" as opposed to a wrestling fan. To be a member of the wWE uNiVeRsE you have to pretend to not really like great matches because you have to say you prefer bad soap opera type storylines and scripted promos, you have to feign ignorance of any wrestler who doesn't work for WWE, you have to pretend to be scared of blood, swearing and big spots because WWE ban so many things and have to either pretend to have, or genuinely have, single digit IQ so you can claim you "need a phD to understand storylines" (this was really prevalent around the time Hangman won the title and it was outlined on Twitter just how deep the story went) and don't know how to count therefore don't understand how the Continental Classic, or any league table, works. It must be exhausting and quite degrading but they do it anyway. WWE tribalist types won't ever admit AEW has done anything cool, they'll chastise the company in the form of "just asking questions", faux moral outrage and pearl clutching, hating it simply because it isn't WWE. The internet is full of these absolute fucking nerds, people the WWE made lifelong fans of in the years where it was some of the most unwatchable shit on television which should tell you everything you need to know about them. Why the time of day is given to the "I like my wrestling PG" crowd I'll never know, we can all acknowledge these guys loved a product that was complete shit for decades, why trust their opinion on anything else.

[@apostolostvable]

Spots are meaningless if they make no sense. Injury angles are meaningless because half the roster has been thrown through or hit with every single item on Home Depot's shelves. Guys sit there and throw strikes and do moves for their own sake. Certain people like that style, and that's fine. Wrestling psychology doesn't exist anymore, especially in AEW. The WWE is all about simply using wrestling matches as a vehicle to advance the promos/confrontations/skits. It's safe and pedestrian and lacks edge to its content.

[@survivor-qp4zf]

AEW is reckless, the talents are goofy and you guys are 🤡.

[@michaelfarrow5817]

"You are one of the world's dumbest people".

[@TheFoxcrusher]

Cool spots still have a place. But I honestly believe acrobatics is phasing out and cornette-ism is what's coming and what is needed

[@michaelfarrow5817]

An idea whose time has apparently come but failed every time they tried it.

[@MIKYABBY]

100% Right !!! Glad I found this video. I thought I was going crazy explaining these same points to other ppl.

[@carlosr6462]

well, you and these guys are wrong. You guys that garbage indie wrestling style

[@unklesalty3732]

This is why I stopped watching. These guys (and ladies) do this crap to themselves and other talent and call it wrestling. Darby could’ve seriously hurt himself or worse, someone else. These guys stopped being wrestlers and turned into crash dummies and fans are only watching anymore to see when someone actually kills themself. Sting was able to complete into his 60s by not doing dumb-f**k stunts like this.

[@michaelfarrow5817]

What did you think when Angle put Shane through the window? That was genuine, real glass. Or are you too young to have watched that first time around.

[@25shinedown]

it's mainly wwe fans that don't see that on a regular basis anymore so they flip when someone else does cool things because they can't.

[@Inzayn89]

More of a WWE fan than AEW like both though. But i thought the spot was fantastic. I like some of their high risk spots. Some do get pulled off horribly which does happen. But overall the darby spot i thought was awesome!

[@PaxBisonica89]

"WWE fans" don't even know this bum fuck promotion even exist 😂😂

[@InaudibleSlinky]

Jesus dude, I pray youre just 15 or something. If you're an adult and that's the best reason you can think of, then dont procreate.

[@_NutcasE_]

Yeah thats not the case. Do you realize even by a small margin the consequences of these kinds of stunts? At best he gets injured for a while at worst he gets his life shortened by quite the large margin. "when did people stop liking cool stunts" after AEW and Indie idiots started doing them every week. If every move of a match is a spot, then there are no spots. It's like WWE match having 56 "finishers" Darby isnt special, He isnt a star. he is an idiot trying to get himself killed for attraction. Which is why AEW isnt making stars and needs former WWE stars to make traction. Because doing Indie bullcrap on a higher budget doesnt attract views. It's not also only Darby getting injured but that glass flew all over the place and audience. Thats enough to start legal problems and spread the word of the supposed "safest promotion" which is a goddamn joke of a statement on its own. But go on ahead, say its "jealousy" ECW died for a reason. It might have been edgy, but it wasnt attractive.

[@michaelfarrow5817]

But they regularly watch a dozen ladder matches a year with godawful bumps way less controlled than the Allin one.

[@IASP17]

I didnt stop liking cool shit. there is absolutely nothing cool about AEW or that match.

[@LiftaLot335]

because they constantly do it and it gets old and cringe

[@michaelfarrow5817]

What promotion that you like is better at this and why?

[@collindillingham5312]

These two hate wrestling while masquerading as wrestling fans what a bunch of tools talk about squares and dorks

[@jabrockobiden9434]

Look in a mirror

[@michaelfarrow5817]

Punctuation is your friend.

[@MrHamblin05]

Because it’s over done and it’s cheap alternative to telling a good story within the ropes. If you wanna be a stuntman go to Hollywood. You just sound like AEW neck beard marks.

[@michaelfarrow5817]

What is the correct way to tell a story? I'll happily wait.