WHEN DILLAHUNTY BROKE JORDAN PETERSON?!

#mattdillahunty #mattdillahunty #samharris #douglasmurray #god #atheist #atheism #atheistviews #jordanpeterson #jordanpetersondaily #jordanpetersondebate #religion #christianity #islam #quran #bible #jesus #debate #secularism #secularhumanism #exmuslim #exmuslimlive
Full discussion here: • The Greatest God Debat...
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[@Pangburn]

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[@BrianRPaterson]

I enjoyed watching the clip, but I'm not interested in watching ALL of Jordan Peterson's Pangburn debates. This snippet is more than enough for me. The man is a jelly -- no matter what anyone says, he just refuses to be pinned down on anything. Is life is preferable to death? Well, that depends. Is it a good idea for my stuff to not get stolen? Well, that depends. Is life too short to debate anything at all with Jordan Peterson? (INSERT LIKELY ANSWER HERE). Cheers

[@simondean9127]

as an atheist, I accept that some good things have been created under an idea of god or gods, and I can appreciate those. as a thinker, I understand a great deal of what Jordan is saying and why he doesn't want to concede ground which might be the building blocks of a theory but not be tangible under scrutiny. I enjoy watching these discussions and thinking about them and around them without an agenda other than learning. I thought that was what pangburn was for, but I realise now its about pushing the atheist agenda and "destroying" anyone who doesn't outwardly define themselves as atheist. this is a shame, as this seemed like a good resource, but you're influencing not educating, marketing not sharing, and its not the same thing. probably a long overdue unsubscribe.

[@robertconklin3850]

Dillahunty only debates on his grounds. It's always a person has to defend the existence of God. It's a pointless argument that doesn't even prove Dillahunty correct. Human rights that Matt falls back on, is no less a non existent social construct than religion is.

[@mikek9297]

@@robertconklin3850 Human rights are useful tho. They serve to prevent needless death and suffering. Religion on the other hand has been one of the leading causes of both.

[@robertconklin3850]

@@mikek9297 But they aren't based in reality. I can take your life, freedom or body without your consent. So it seems to me that there should be a anchor to base your morals off of, and shouldn't be determined just by how society feels about it at the moment. If society said tomorrow that slavery was ok tomorrow, what would tell you that it's wrong?

[@paulendsley6322]

This is what happens when Jordan challenges a mind that can’t be intimidated by word salads and advanced vocabularies.

[@sirwojenheimthethird2268]

Exactly this. You can just tell that he’s uncomfortable and highly motivated to derail any attempt at an orderly exchange. He gets far too much credit for being some kind of enlightened luminary. He is just a stubborn curmudgeon.

[@Petticca]

Curmudgeon doesn't get used nearly enough in conversation. Thank you for reminding me the word exists! Peterson is just absurd. He's the most ridiculous sophist I think I've ever heard "What do you mean by 'do', what do you mean by 'you', what do you mean by 'believe',..."

[@Sourmilk69]

@@sirwojenheimthethird2268he’s a cult leader with a messiah complex

[@Wallabynge]

I'm surprised Matt didn't mention evolution

[@bkfitnessandcombatives8658]

The sheer idiocy of that comment makes it comedic…🤣

[@kylerolofson]

Jordan Peterson's only way to debate a point is to turn it into a semantics argument and then claim his definition is the correct one.

[@jesmarina]

VERY true that.

[@dizzyspinner648]

There's another component to Peterson's debate technique: interrupt whenever you don't want the audience to hear your opponents position. He constantly interrupts Matt and even goes so far as to assert that he knows what Matt REALLY means instead of letting him speak for himself. Rude and cowardly, he would rather debate a straw man than the actual man in the room. And that's pretty much all he does. Trump, but with grammar and syntax so he sounds a little less like a pro wrestler insult comic. But that's all he really is.

[@Nicksonian]

@@dizzyspinner648 That’s brilliant! Exactly what I was going to say, but you already did it better than I could.

[@someguy5438]

​@@dizzyspinner648very well put.

[@gregtidrow7717]

What does 'debate' mean? What does 'point' mean? What does 'is' mean? We'd need a WHOLE YEAR to unpack this! /s

[@redblackjester]

I love how he navigates this so masterfully, he doesn't get lost in Peterson's stuff and even wrangles him back from going on an impossibly long tangent to ramble, he answers the questions and challenges his ideas every step of the way.

[@everdash]

Jordan’s way of not losing is, when someone is winning, question every word they say over and over until you’re now 10 side arguments away from the original topic and everyone forgets what it was. Then he keeps creating more and more side paths, searching for a hole to attack and be right about. Then you’re stuck debating a completely unrelated and irrelvant topic to defend your validity.

[@adayinthelifeofatourbusdri9793]

Apparently, Jordan Peterson's idea of discussion is to never let the other person finish their thought.

[@oscargr_]

Peterson was making up a "winning argument" (or a crowd pleasing one) on the spot, but got blocked by Dillahunty at every turn. Peterson was like a fish in a net, trying to escape.

[@lordgohan5907]

Yes that really ticked me off. Every time he was going to destroy Jordan's arguement or make clear what his position is, Jordan would chime in with some crap about definitions.

[@Wallabynge]

Jordan Peterson walks back everything he says, because nobody can be correct, except him, but he is a person, so I guess he can't be correct, either.

[@markorahoske6931]

No kidding. That drove me nuts, I wanted to hear the point that he was trying to make but but constant interruptions by Jordan Peterson, just simply infuriates me

[@quiotu]

This is their entire schtick, and by 'they' I mean folks like Peterson and Shapiro and Kirk and anyone else who debates like they do. Which is to say... they don't really debate, they have a hard set group of definitions that they will throw at someone whenever someone tries to muddy the waters. They are extremists at defining terms that have very loose or various definitions, and they furiously argue against someone who believes there's any other correct definition other than theirs.

[@jordanbruce3721]

Jordan P is clearly uncomfortable while Matt is calm and patient. This speaks volumes.

[@paullawrence1267]

That's what I noticed. Their body language is so different. Jordan seems like he is high on crack and exhibits classic liar behavior.

[@mikekolokowsky]

Matt takes on crazy religious zealots on his show all the time. That’s his whole show. Peterson knows when he is losing, and starts throwing arcane vocabulary words out there and making preposterous arguments hidden in terms like “metaphysical presupposition in sublayers of existentialism” or some hooey.

[@aldodanieljimenezcardona1252]

HAHAHAJAJAJ JP looks like he is talking to a child who just doesn’t get it and is stubborn in his positions.

[@timothystjohn4408]

It’s a pretty obvious and classic tactic of a losing party to interrupt and mock the point. Petersons arrogance is difficult to stomach.

[@mobilegamereviewer.1936]

​@@aldodanieljimenezcardona1252 Who's shouting like a child?

[@glennhughes8276]

I have never seen Jordan Peterson be so horrible in a debate. Interrupt, question, another question, not letting opponent finish one single point before Interrupting again. I was totally disappointed in what I saw.

[@simonboyane1140]

Equally disappointed. He is one of the people that inspires me a lot. But I have always disagreed with his religious alignment, so I'm not that surprised.

[@haikelareff]

this isnt a debate, its more of a conversation

[@FutureRules]

@@simonboyane1140inspires you? Bro you are done for in life 😂 jfc.

[@Galatian1]

@@simonboyane1140 If Jordan Peterson "inspires you"........then you should re-evaluate things.

[@simonboyane1140]

@@Galatian1 explain please

[@Saltpirate]

“You left religion? You were never truly religious.” “You aren’t religious? Deep down you truly are.” In other words “I can’t be wrong.” Tight.

[@godsglizzy2232]

Where do morals come from? Religion. So if you have morals you are inherently religious. Whether you think you believe in God or not. Do you think without religion people would be at all civilized?

[@joshuarock4631]

​@@godsglizzy2232morality is a word, and even if the word or religion did not exist we would still have good and honest people, it's a false to believe you need a book written by men who married children to have a human race with "morality"

[@Chris-wh8ki]

@@godsglizzy2232 Morality and religion are not the same thing. Is morality a part of religion? Yes. But morality does not center around religion. Believing in a book written 2000 years ago claiming god's kid came to earth is asinine and for the low intelligence humans of the planet. Christianity, and all religions for the most part, are fairy tales designed by tyrants thousands of years ago to control the people they ruled over. It's hilarious some humans are still dumb enough to believe in it. Religion shows the ignorance/arrogance humans have. We are just another creature out of thousands on a planet that has been here for over 4 billion years. Humans have only existed for a little over 100,000 years. It is stupid to think that we are special or that some a divine entity is watching down on us and will judge us when we die. I hate to break it to you, but death is the same thing as what it was like before you were born, literal nothing. The earth was here long before humans existed, and the earth will be here long after humans go extinct. We are just one chapter in the Earth's history. But to believe in religion and of divine beings that we want to create in our own likeness, is literal stupidity. Our species isn't any more special than dogs, cats, dolphins, or insects. I can 1000% tell you that without religion, humans would be completely civilized, maybe even more civilized then we currently have. Look at the world we live in today with religion, it is awful and full of death and destruction, a lot of which is directly caused by religious beliefs. Most of the violence and wars throughout human history have been caused by religion itself. I hope you read this entire response.

[@marianaaraujo597]

​@@godsglizzy2232 Morality existed way before monoteist religions did.

[@evanr5871]

⁠@@godsglizzy2232Morals come from people. Morals are extended from our natural tendencies as a social species. I do believe that without religion, some people would be moral and civilized. Just as how with religion existing, some people are immoral and not civilized. What religion does is try and tie morality to an authority that is higher than the person. When you do this, it cannot be challenged by the person, for better or for worse. I think that morality is clearly subjective. If there was an objective morality, then we would see people following the same ethics everywhere. If morality is subjective, we would see it varies widely, and it does. The morality in the middle east is not the same morality in east asia. The morality of Christians is not the same as the morality of the Buddhists. The morality of those in prison is not the same as the morality of people who are free. I don’t see how any of this isn’t self-evident unless someone lacks self awareness.

[@RickJones222]

Constantly questioning every third word is not debating. Jordan is having problem with semantics, not metaphysics.

[@lindboknifeandtool]

Then one could just say anything and mean anything. I don’t disagree but still

[@Pastamistic]

​@@lindboknifeandtoolyes, just like Peterson constantly redefining whatever the hell he wants during a debate. Like suggesting death isn't bad for your well-being.

[@JoelER78]

@@PastamisticExactly!

[@vanivari359]

unless he rambles about "the radical Marxist left", then he uses a lot of big words with meaning totally wrong. I guess the guy is still struggling enormously to reconcile his suppressed religiosity with his rational mind, which is why the topic always ends up in this word salad and semantic discussions. Man, his whole aura falls apart when there is a smarter person in the room.

[@diskgrinder]

The gishop jaybee Peterson

[@witebatman]

"Jordan Petterson changes the topic 47 times without stating ANYTHING of value, as the audience laughs at him"

[@raheimgreen8550]

All the time. Redirect the conversation so by the end its nowhere near the starting topic.

[@jasonchastain9826]

Seriously... can Jordan NOT interrupt someone he just asked a question?!? How many times does Jordan ask a question, then immediately interrupt and redirect the attempt at answering?! This is pure "gish gallop" by Peterson.

[@keithwinget6521]

@@jasonchastain9826 Nothing new here. It's one of the only tactics available when you're attempting to argue from a weak position.

[@jjhaya]

I'm just curious about how Jordan is acting 😅; I think body language is a pseudoscience but this dude moves like a crack addict, is fidgety, looks like a baby riding a rocking horse chair, he also has an annoying voice that I thought was edited to sound like a speedup Kermit 😂.

[@jjhaya]

He moves like a crkhead fidgeting riding a rocking horse chair and I initially thought that the audio was edited because he sounded like a speedup Kermit 😂.

[@jasoncrumpet9764]

"You sure you wanna go there" tells me all I need to know about Peterson's sum-zero attitude to life. It's a philosophical conversation, but he has to "win." And he uses arguments to obfuscate the main issue when he feels he's "losing." Just a horrible little man with very little to offer humanity.

[@vadimmanuilov7401]

What does Matt offer to humanity?

[@HeteroSapient]

I'm a little amazed that anyone is still talking to Jordan Peterson. He's not a serious thinker, and he's repeatedly demonstrated that. At this point, he's just wasting people's time.

[@Shouten707]

The Peterson method: When someone is proving you wrong, just keep interrupting them so it looks like you're making points.

[@soliniv1411]

And change the topic

[@skylestia]

use a lot of big words and captivating phrasing while saying little to nothing

[@jbern2185]

Use word salads, use words that have lots of syllables, and just keep talking.

[@ozziejim8472]

@@skylestiathat’s exactly what he does, well said.

[@marxist5ever864]

That's the exact playbook of all right wingers.

[@GuyInnagorillasuit]

How on earth does anyone take Peterson seriously as a thinker? Obfuscation is his only real talent.

[@gwoyang]

And he's awful at that too...

[@joao3547]

I don't really like him but he wasn't wrong here.

[@gwoyang]

@@joao3547 try to explain please

[@Uouttooo]

If he has that, what have you got?

[@briannoel7398]

​@@Uouttoooclarity

[@coulombs465]

The audience laughing at everything dumb that Peterson says really adds another layer to this complete intellectual beatdown. People who think Peterson is profound lack the ability to derive meaning from his word salads.

[@shaneross7428]

I get so tired of watching debates where noone can definitively be proven right or wrong. If God wanted to be known it would have shown itself to everyone, not hiding in a thousand different interpretations and religions.

[@tummygrumbly2602]

Jesus states in the book of Mark when the elders demand he opens the heavens to show proof Jesus tells them "if you are searching for a sign, I promise you will not be given one" so that is where it comes down to faith. Also he doesnt show himself to everyone because then you have no choice if he is real or not and then that leads to everyone is a drone to God and not our father we lose that free will if he showed himself to all. Just my thoughts on it though

[@outs78]

@@tummygrumbly2602 Faith is ridicules considering it can be used for all fictional characters and all fictional books to be true and real. Faith can be used as an excuse to justify any fictional beings absence from reality.

[@tummygrumbly2602]

@@outs78 except in this case Jesus is a historical figure and is not based on make believe at all

[@outs78]

@@tummygrumbly2602 You've made an unfounded claim that you have no empirical evidence for. Books don't count.

[@Galatian1]

@@tummygrumbly2602 Many of these stories have debunked through means of anthropology, archaeology, and other sciences. It's all made-up nonsense written to indoctrinate and control the weak minds of followers who lack the ability to think critically/logically. There's not a single piece of archaeological proof Jesus existed..........only written sources with an obvious bias.

[@ConradSpoke]

This smug attitude infuriates me: "You think you aren't religious, but you really are, and now I'll tell you what you actually believe."

[@sdwone]

Matt COMPLETELY wiped the floor with this pompous a-hole! Indeed, JP is too scared to do a rematch with Matt, because JP knows he is simply not in his league. The dude should just stick to doing what he used to be good at... Psychology and helping young vulnerable men and boys with their issues.

[@terrymckenzie8786]

He’s been saying this for years. What does he mean.

[@olekjaer86]

It irritates me to, but I agree with Richard Dawkins on him.

[@thicccorgi6187]

Typical conservative.

[@mistowasabi5443]

I don’t think he said religious unless you’re talking about a different part but he said “Believe in God”. Idk where this guy gets his talking points from either, but its not the bible 😭

[@frasermacdonald6614]

Ever notice Peterson's whole demeanor changes when he is in front of someone more intelligent than he?

[@Mike_Sunshine]

Like a submissive puppy who's been naughty.

[@hamnchee]

Yes

[@michaeljayne6731]

That’s almost everybody (as in, who is JP smarter than, really?). But it does seem like Peterson likes to surround himself with people who don’t know much about anything, which is likely by design, so he doesn’t look stupid. But even then he virtually always does.

[@alexdumas739]

Isn't that like 95% of people.

[@marcuspinto3193]

You must be joking 😂 site Matt’s credentials alongside Peter sons . It’s no comparison. Peterson spanked him in this debate

[@DC-do3qj]

Very nice to see Jordan struggle a bit and be put back in his place. There’s a limit to trying to challenging words used vs ideas and not letting the other person finish any thoughts.

[@stephenmanning7376]

Peter seems to be struggling here more than I have ever seen him. His level of interruption betrays this

[@gohomehero]

Looks like he's enjoying himself tbh. Just two people talking.

[@gordon3186]

Arguing with Peterson is like arguing with someone who's really stoned.

[@om3g4888]

Really stoned and incredibly stupid.

[@ReadingRambo152]

How dare you insult stoners like that

[@VinceGwhite]

dude I've had debates with incredibly stoned people and jorpy here couldn't hold a candle to them lmfao

[@raywalsh9152]

Peterson was clearly shitfaced. Take it from a professional alcoholic. That dude was hammered.

[@grenerd161]

What are you 88?

[@HEAT16]

Peterson is such a lightweight. The moment he's remotely challenged by a legit intellect he's completely off his game. Just look at the body language, he can barely sit still.

[@arriuscalpurniuspiso]

He is the most miserable self help guru I have ever seen. His misery is proof that his beliefs are a failure

[@michiwonderoutdoors2282]

He was shaking taking a drink at the end.

[@BenLemay77]

Peterson reacted as if he were being attacked at his core self. Yet not angrily agressive, he was on full attack mode, on the edge of his seat bent forward. His hands shaking, playing with his pacifiers (his ring), his voice was getting faster and his pitch higher the more he saw that Dillahunty didn't fall in his strawman traps. The opposite I see him in interviews.

[@grazzer88]

He can barely sit still because he's high off his tits from his pain killer addiction he had at the time. But yes. He'd probably be shaking from nerves if he wasn't shaking from drug abuse already.

[@ShadowTeller]

I have some admiration for him. He has decent brain and points. BUT SLOW THE FUCK DOWN AND LISTEN. I think he would be a very different person if he just did those things. I like to say he's powerful train that can go strong and get places.... if he actually watched to see if there are tracks under his feet to get to a destination. The metaphor is that his conclusions suck, they are at best antagonistic for the sake of spotlight controversy, though they may be grounded in fair premise. He doesn't like to lose or make mistakes, ,and if you aren't willing to do that you aren't willing to learn and grow.. or even have fucking hope. That's why I think people see him as miserable. Just be wrong. just stop train and look for the tracts of facts and I think so much of his work would just be more valid and worth it. As is... he's a modern man worth dissecting to see the flaws when fit facts and logic to your belief instead of see the actual truth those take you to

[@PaulMarkwick]

Peterson is just so out of his league here. 😂😂🤡🤡

[@jrzygurl]

Look at one man who is calm settled and relaxed and the other one is ready to jump out of his chair like an unhinged lunatic in a defensive position

[@KatAmaran1]

Every time Peterson started to speak, I cringed. He’s the Michael Scott of the debate world.

[@Foolishfool7669]

I fucking love it. Good one

[@KatAmaran1]

@Abdulja I hear you. I meant the fact that I cringe when I hear the things he says though, not that they are similar. Both characters think they have their shit together too. But you’re right. This was unfair to Michael!

[@Chelseabell112085]

😂😂😂

[@cpt.dr.hawkeye1740]

"sometimes I just start a sentence and hope I find it along the way..."

[@ArcAngle1117]

God damn, that is too true.

[@newb_master]

This guy is insufferable, consumed by ego and his own bullshit.

[@secretname4190]

Yeah but Peterson handled him well regardless!

[@RealAaron317]

says you

[@kittybluett8887]

@@secretname4190nope Peterson did not, all Peterson did was interrupt him and spoke his usual bs.

[@fifthat]

Yeah, Jordan is

[@sizzlechest69]

@@secretname4190 say what? Peterson's assumption that death stops suffering is a greater assumption than that death is inimical to well-being. How do you justify that?

[@jaymaxwell8645]

What is the time stamp in the actual debate so I don't have to deal with all the audio drops?

[@bleunt]

"When you die, suffering ends." Says the man who believes I'll go to hell.

[@7856841]

But his definition of hell is not a firey demise it is a separation from God so yea lol That is consistent.

[@_Singularity_]

He’s never said he’s a Christian

[@Bucketheadhead]

@@_Singularity_Out of all the religions he’s clearly most sympathetic to Christianity.

[@_Singularity_]

@@Bucketheadhead or maybe Judaism. Either way, the original comment isn’t accurate

[@Bucketheadhead]

@@_Singularity_ the point of the conversation within the clip is that Peterson claims death will be the end of suffering but this is in contrast to his belief that death is not the end. I think he concedes this is pure supposition but he lives as if God is real to avoid going to hell. I’d suggest that means he believes it enough to affect how he lives his life.

[@NeilCampbell1]

The audience laughing at JP says it all

[@mediumbeetle9964]

Laughing with*

[@HDitzzDH]

@@mediumbeetle9964at*

[@Not_An_EV]

​@@mediumbeetle9964No no. Laughing at. ​

[@mediumbeetle9964]

@@Not_An_EV If you think JP came out of this with his reputation unharmed, then you may just be too much of a fan to recognize how dumb he looks.

[@porkchopTopHat]

@@mediumbeetle9964 read the room pal

[@alanjerram9258]

"If I'm wrong, I want to know I'm wrong." Going through life with that fearless attitude has to be so liberating and constructive. For me, it's something to aspire to.

[@nickybobby9317]

In ways yes, but as the saying goes “ignorance is bliss,” so when you choose to strive to objectively go wherever the evidence leads you and shape your understanding of reality by that, you find that the choice to avoid the discomfort of doing that and to pursue the comfort of believing what we want to believe is one of the biggest causes of suffering and prevention of progress on this planet. Not only is it addictively comfortable (as history has shown with the countless deranged and delusional, evidence-lacking, self-reinforcing beliefs that have caused damage on multiple levels throughout societies), it’s also severely inhibitive to progress on multiple levels. It can be extremely depressing and frustrating seeing the effects of it daily and thinking about how much willful ignorance combined with intentional manipulation (especially by the rich and greedy) causes most of the planet to fight against one another and not only not condemn but excuse the abuse of human and other animal rights as well as be apathetic toward or even against things their own belief systems objectively support…all because we wanna believe what we wanna believe. So we’ll manipulate one another and use one another and misunderstand and confuse one another and desire and choose to kill and commit genocide against one another and care less about the wellbeing of each other, let alone care about looking after the only thing we have that can support life and cause it to thrive.

[@marting1984]

Agreed

[@joemagarac405]

@@nickybobby9317 I normally disdain long posts, but this is one of the best explanations of the immorality of supernatural belief as a framework for behavior that I have read.

[@doktordrift948]

Yet, he's never wrong and refuses to be challenged. Be quiet

[@Shovelglove545]

@@doktordrift948”refuses to be challenged” lmao cope

[@itchynights]

this reminds me so much of first year university when my friends and i would debate for hours without anyone saying anything of any substance. but at least we were drunk. not sure what their excuse is.

[@tannorhighroller7517]

People tend to get defensive and jumpy when their core beliefs are being challenged in an intellectual way. This is the conversation most people try to have about non-secular vs secular morality, but the only difference here is Jordan doesn't get to walk away or scramble words to evade the topic because 1. He's on stage and 2. People are actively listening, and everyone knows the one thing Jordan cares about more than philosophical conservatism is his image.

[@magepunk2376]

Dude, I’ve never seen Peterson flounder so horribly.

[@poskeegget8043]

Frustration of his babbling not managing to derail or confuse the other party.

[@MB5rider81]

You should get out more.. Every time he speaks, he flounders.

[@daghul4785]

Watch his debate against Sam Harris.

[@sporer_]

must be your first Jordy clip bc this is very commonplace

[@SS_Psyops]

I’m really surprised by this being the take away… Dillahunty must go through the process of adequately describing and qualifying his terms if he wants to make huge claims about something like a moral system. I would have been in a similar position to Peterson trying to get him to think through the consequence of what he’s saying. I’ve never listened to him before but judging off of this he has a lot of post-enlightenment philosophy to work through before he can make very meaningful points.

[@jeffreyp1855]

Peterson has mastered "word salad."

[@bb21again.67]

High cholesterol low fibre word salad with sour dressing.

[@tonyclif1]

He's just trying to compete with Deepak Chopra!

[@hotrodandrube9119]

Meh. Not a very good metaphysical salad, metaphysically

[@ronmarkell4436]

……and interruption.

[@briankrakau8371]

He's 8th dan black belt.

[@davidtempest263]

Wow, Peterson got schooled. He is tripping up over his own BS

[@MikePulcinellaVideo]

I don't think that Peterson and most believers actually believe what they say they believe. They are trying to convince themselves as much as they are trying to convince atheists. That's obvious.

[@pauljeffreymusic]

Jordan was unhinged, was really fidgety and outclassed…he’s full of you know what.

[@ThaStonedGardner]

Cocaine and bullshit?

[@BeenSauce]

I think it's worse. He's a sociopath.

[@bobbyhulll8737]

@@BeenSaucethat he is not .

[@jamesregiste960]

Anyone who thinks self-expression should be subjected to mandates based in "traditional values" is a sociopath, isn't that the nazi construct of Society?😊

[@JB-wh3we]

@pauljeffreymusic I'd say it wasn't that Jordan was unhinged, it was that he realized Matt was content to be the wise-ass 15 year old in the discussion..ya know where the only goal is he pwns the religious ppl and feels enlightened & wise...and Jordan was making a good faith effort to expand the discussion into how moral truths/messages (that can't yet be articulated) can be revealed through human creativity...like a religious text. And how to deny that simply puts another type of devotion into that religious space of the human mind. For instance Matt's religion to me was revealed to be a devotion to logic, rationality, and tangible truths. Which is good in that it works for Matt. But it is a self-limiting belief and it doesn't scale bc that could easily be replaced in other individuals w/ a political ideology (seems logical/rational) w/ disastrous consequences.

[@billbaldwin3564]

Jordan Peterson is so busy interrupting Matt here that neither he nor the audience ever learns anything about what he’s thinking. Jordan presupposes he just understands where Matt is coming from before he can complete any thought and that he’s wrong. It’s extremely passive aggressive, arrogant, and obnoxious, and a waste of everyone’s time.

[@Yich11]

yeah, he's weirdly acting like a drunk teenager who thinks he knows it all but won't let anyone speak long enough to ruin their buzz

[@marcdaniels9079]

@@Yich11 Nice analogy

[@NewApologist]

He’s just asking for clarification, which is needed.

[@mkaz3997]

@@Yich11 Yeah...he wasn't at his best! Was he on medication?

[@ClaudioBrogliato]

That might be the case, he might interrupt because he understands where the discussion is going to try a different approach to win the argument. Fact is this way of argumentation is awful for the people who watch and try to understand and for the other speaker who is forced to constantly jump from a concept to another to keep up with very no sense of accomplishment and no possibility to convey his argument to the public.

[@music4meh]

1:03 ''if I am wrong I wanna know I'm wrong'' absolutely, that statement made me so happy. I feel Dillahunty is such a geniune character. Even the term ''Godless'' is so good to me. Young as I am, years ago I felt democratic and supposedly free states should depend on a ''right to be stupid, plight to be wise'', to educate oneself through opening yourself to not only express your views, and be corrected by others. Vesting authority in people that think differently, may yield truths you cannot yet ponder without having talked to them. It is the basis of connection beyond simply wanting to get to know one another, there is a virtue in something to be gained from one another. Express your views, to be corrected. I still feel that way. I trust my younger self to still be right in knowing that I could be wrong, but I should always express my feelings and beliefs, so others can respond. So I can test my beliefs, but also apply them in the sparring grounds of discussion and discourse. I do not want to be right, I wish to be proven wrong if I am. It is not about a narcistic need to flaunt self-described genius, it is to actually find out who I am, where I stand, and hopefully become better at what I am best at, and to trust my beliefs. The reason the term ''Godless'' resonated with me, is because, after having been a zealous atheist for a while in my teens (no I am not the person you debated on the internet, nor was I its likeness), I realized at some point that Faith in a higher power, devotion to deities, is a powerful and beautiful thing. I simply don't have it. I look up to the skies, and know my skies are empty. I simply don't have that connection to a higher being. I derive my morals from the fact this universe, vast as it is, beyond our comprehension, so huge that light would take eons to travel from one expanding extremity to another, brought us all here. And exactly because we are left to our own devices, we should make this earth as beautiful as possible, to create an earth alien lifeforms with the power to erase our entire solar system to think - if ''thinking'' can be applied to their manner of being, for they would be so different our terms cannot be applicable - ''this world is worth existing on.'' Making this planet, a trial run at Heaven, more like such a promised paradise, increases the likelihood any soul could qualify for entry and access of Heaven. I ''act as if I believe in God'' because I don't [believe in Gods, or a reason for us to exist]. If there is no God, there are and is a lot of reason(s) to act as if you want every other entity to exist to flourish. Exactly because there is no inherent meaning to existing, I want this random existence to be worthwile, and be increasingly worthwhile for generations to come. If there are no Gods, and my actions aren't motivated by fear of eternal damnation, I am motivated solely by caring for my fellow dwellers of the universe, not limited to life or beings on this planet. I am not even merely motivated by ''treating others the way I wish to be treated'', I treat others well because I want them to be and do well, I want everyone and everything to flourish, freedom within restraints. If there is no deities, or a reason to (or why we) exist, the best thing is for all humans, and then all animals, and then all entities, to flourish, and have them become better at defining what better means. Utilitarianism isn't enough for me, although it would be an easy solution for the atheist case of morality. But to me, even a suffering life devoid of much happiness, that works towards other worlds and lives being lived in better and more productive states, is worth it. And to be honest, no existence can be truly devoid of the joy and happiness so precious to Utilitarians and their Felific Calculus. Flourishing and happiness cannot be quantified, the value of any existence cannot be quantified, and if they are, they are quantified by reflexive descriptions. Like James Joyce said ''Love loves to love love'', the good deems itself to be good. Our modes and methods to evaluate evaluate themselves. Good and progress ascribe those things to themselves. Good determines good and their means to determine good to be good. That is at the root of ethics, whether it be atheist or theist. We are left to our own devices, whether ''our own'' means being made in God's image, or having your skies be empty, being lacking in that feeling as if there is more. I don't need ''more'', the fact we exist is good enough for me.

[@hungrysquishybrain]

Petersons constant wiggling and gyrating and interrupting and blabbering is so clownish and nutty.

[@pastapirate]

It's like watching a kid who thinks he's clever try to argue with the teacher

[@Talkitrhrough]

Wow, yes

[@khanhngo5979]

👏👏👏👌

[@jpr3665]

Beautifully put

[@AfrikanGod1]

precisely

[@markverplank2827]

If Jordon was as sure of himself as he pretends, he'd quit interrupting.

[@helveticaification]

He knows he would lose, if he did that .

[@scheikundeiscool4086]

Can't have that. He is not trying to win the debate. He is trying to keep his persona going. To keep his online grift alive.

[@theministeroftherealtruth]

seems hunty was the one interrupting :)

[@nateharris5012]

the ministe of truth lied? @@theministeroftherealtruth

[@xhawkenx633]

Sure or he was just annoyed, because Sam Harris and Dilahunty failed to come to the conclusion that people 200 years ago already had, at that is that you can't derive normativity from factuality, no matter how hard you try, and consequently whenver you want to tell someone how they should behave, you base it upon your believes and not upon the facts from which inevitably religion arieses

[@therealrussellsmyth]

Loved this debate but what in gods name is going on with the audio. Please don’t put a gate on this type of audio. It’s extremely distracting and there’s absolutely no need

[@happyguy650]

2 homo sapiens with different sets of belief systems sitting together and conversing and challenging one another all this in a civilised manner without fear of repurcussions is a great achievment of our 21st century.

[@yodaiam1000]

This is JP's master class in how to say a lot of words in a context that no one understands while communicating nothing of substance.

[@steft7903]

A lot of them do this. The 'Wall of words.' Brand and Shapiro do this too.

[@franciskeyes]

In other words, a JP master class in bullshitting.

[@kazkaskazkas8689]

He's good at arguing about feminist, transgender, or relationship issues with people who know little of what an intellectual, well-argued position is, but he's extremely bad at politics and religion as topics and arguing against people who have well-reasoned intellectual positions reveals his weakness almost every time.

[@chocolatemilkforeverybody2569]

what a sophisticated and content-based critique

[@SpiderWaffle]

He's more of a charlatan than anything.

[@doogle9]

I don't think Matt was allowed to finish a singe sentence without being interrupted. This was painful!

[@lizcollinson2692]

Yup

[@robwright8949]

That was his tactic. Disrupt the flow before an actual point could be made

[@lizcollinson2692]

@@robwright8949 making the whole thing a complete waste of time.

[@scottmghill]

Not true at all. But I guess if you need lies to feel good about yourself... Meanwhile, Peterson is quick to point out bullshit AS IT'S HAPPENING, rather than waiting for the camouflage of rambling words to disguise the fallacy.

[@YouAreFarFromChrist]

​@@scottmghillYou're simultaneously saying that Peterson didn't continually interrupt Matt while also saying that he's quick to interrupt people when he hears bullshit. Cognitive dissonance. Stop making heroes of hypocrites. This is a guy who, in this conversation, used bad faith debate tactics that stupid gotcha journalists use on him.

[@armsdude]

Peterson : "Nothing is self-evident to the skeptic." What JP seems unaware of is that he's not a skeptic, he's essentially a pseudo-intellectual Karen.

[@_Singularity_]

I’m sure you’re smarter than him

[@billbradford7898]

Lost all respect for JP. He acts like he knows the other guys mind without letting him finish his darn point!...

[@ephtea614]

He had a smug nervousness the whole time. He knows his arguments are pure bs.

[@KeatrithAmakiir]

Ya, laughing instead of ever making a coherent point was clearly a nervous response given he has no basis for his radical assertions of nonsense

[@KorhalKk]

Jordan Peterson thinks his word salad will be chugged by everyone, but some people are already prepared.

[@MTyler8787]

***mickey mouse voice*** what do you mean by word? What do you mean by salad?

[@jjhaya]

I'm also worried if the audience is laughing at Jordan or with him; hopefully the former 😅.

[@4TheRightJAYZUSIsAVirtueSignal]

That's why that type lives on college campuses against nervous 20something kids to get their "OWNS" and make their points about modern "lib indoctrination" education

[@KorhalKk]

@@jjhaya They're just expecting gotchas, thats normal on these debates

[@KorhalKk]

@@jjhaya They're just expecting gotchas, thats normal on these debates

[@0vermars520]

JP speaks thinking he's got the upper hand but everyone else sees the trap he's put himself in😂

[@fredsystra7584]

I actually agree with Jordan here especially on the values. he was most definitely not “broken” here

[@marahallstewart2883]

It’s like a grown man arguing with a child. Jordan just keeps moving the goal post when he has nothing to say

[@Xplodeon]

But what actually is a goal post?

[@soliniv1411]

And he keeps interrupting

[@chong2389]

No contest.

[@AustenPalmer]

This should be titled "Jordan Peterson appears high on cocaine after learning he is not the smartest person ever"

[@jasonwalker8975]

I swear I was thinking, 'this dude is on coke right now'

[@robvandenberg4191]

Glad I'm not the only one noticing.

[@bradlast7839]

He was actually on drugs Benzos remember

[@Ishbikes]

They drugged him. Not Fair

[@themilkman271]

​@@bradlast7839That's not how Benzos work. 😊

[@Eudamoniae]

I am not an atheist, but I truly enjoyed watching you tear down his argument. You made him squirm, and it was beautiful! Btw, although spirituality is a part of my life, I completely agree with you that morality and compassion do not have to come from religion. In fact, even when religion does encourage morality and compassion, that does not in any way mean that religion is their basis. Morality is naturally inherent within us from the beginning of our lives, whether or not our religion authentically supports that or not, and whether or not we hold onto that natural morality as something important to us, or we simply choose not to care. In all of my years, I have never seen evidence that people who are not religious are any less moral. I usually choose not to listen to anything with Peterson in it, because his pseudo-philosophy is both simple-minded, and abhorrent. The man has very limited capacity for clear, direct reason.... and your dialogue brings that embarrassing fact home very forcefully.

[@youx457]

🎯

[@1898JoeBoyle]

Dillahunty is a the pastor of The Church of Latter Day Atheism

[@markkjacobson]

Peterson is insufferable. He's convinced of his own genius. I'm amazed more people can't see through is obvious BS.

[@constructenglish1]

I think Jordan is incredible on most subjects but when it comes to religion, i get the impression he is actually an atheist

[@Vojevoda13]

Hi is a smart man on most topics. But when things come to religion, or let`s say, russia - he goes in to soft crash mode. And ditches reason completely.

[@bb21again.67]

JP talks so much sh#t no one has time to get a word in sideways.😊

[@trog69]

JP's problem is that he's waaay out in front of his skis, talking about subjects he's far less than knowledgeable about, which are things outside his specialty. I know I am biased against JP, but that started right out of the gate when he misrepresented the bill he argued against. This was his entry into rightwing stardom. No thanks. @@constructenglish1

[@bb21again.67]

@Vojevoda13 And talks and talks and talks and ends up saying nothing.

[@HypatiaK]

Peterson never lets the other person get to his point. He’s not as smart as he pretends to be.

[@Butterflies-are-free]

Right? So irritating! He interrupts every 2 words…it’s like STFU already! 😡

[@OldMexicanGamer]

You have to clarify what certain definitions are in order to understand what they are trying to say. Pretty normal..

[@katherinepierce2300]

I'm sure he's a smart man. But he hasn't learned the skill of conversation. Even if you're pretty sure where someone is going with a statement, it's best not to interrupt. The next sentence that that person says could be very important to their point or provide the context that in turn provides clarification. Even if the initial statement seems incorrect, the next sentence can provide the needed info to show you why the initial statement isn't incorrect. This is the flaw in debating. Debating rarely focuses on establishing truth. The point instead is to win an argument. But if you focus on winning an argument, then you aren't focused on understanding the other person's points. It would be more productive to not interrupt.

[@OldMexicanGamer]

@@katherinepierce2300 they still get to say the next sentence... But with clarification. So if I say something wrong my next sentence could make it right? That's interesting.

[@ou7shined972]

@@OldMexicanGamer He changes the direction of the conversation with each successive interruption, therefore there IS no coming back to clarify the point.

[@Alan_Duval]

Jordan's "implicit value" chalenge is so trivially easy to anwer (even with Sam Harris as its focal point) so I'm glad that Matt addressed it, and in that pragmatic way. Not least because Peterson's defence of religion had generally been on pragmatic grounds.

[@serious_russian2270]

The idea that Unity has put us here as pieces of creative One in order to do 1 thing - create and manifest, has captivated me for quite a while. Im almost 30 now and since 14 i've played guitar. Music has driven me away from suicide. I've been playing as amateur with little growth but a few cool endeavours along the way. Until 25 I was a 15-17 year old boy trapped in a body of a grown man. No ambition, fear and anxiety, lack of social skills, awkwardness and endless irresponsibility for my own life. But music was always there keeping me together. At 25 I escaped. It was like I've lived my whole life under a filter or noise, suppressing how I perceive this existence. And here I discovered that only love keeps us all afloat. And love comes in all shapes and forms. And when dear Jordan says that those creative people are unaware that they are indeed religious, I know he tells the truth cause for 20 something years I was that godless creator. My path from atheism to faith stopped when I took full accountability for my existence and learned how to love, how to give and be grateful. That's the voice of unity, saying that we are much and much closer to each other than we tend to think.

[@ianclose123]

"If I'm wrong I wanna know I'm wrong" When have you ever heard the religious person in a debate say this?

[@MeanOldLady]

When have you heard atheists say that & actually mean it?

[@BatMan-oe2gh]

@@MeanOldLady I am an atheist and if I am wrong, I want to know it. I want to know the truth and if what I think is the truth is proven wrong, I am happy to be corrected. That is how all Atheists think, the same as Scientists.

[@fohrum4757]

​@@MeanOldLadyA lot more often than theists, that's for sure. Hardly anybody wants to be wrong or admit they're wrong, but from my experience, it's the atheist that has a far easier time accepting and then correcting their errors.

[@fohrum4757]

@@russianbear54 What correction, and what do you mean calling his boyfriend 'she'? Not trying to challenge you, I genuinely don't know what you mean and I'm interested

[@Brandonsh101]

@@BatMan-oe2gh You're wrong, thank me later 😉

[@TheLastWalenta]

If Jordan Peterson can’t even acknowledge that survival is in accordance with “well-being” just based on definition without turning into a baby asking “why?” to everything, it seems apparent that simply not listening to Jordan Peterson is better for all our well-being.

[@kingplays5369]

Lol 🥹🤣

[@kenk7282]

QED and good night.

[@shaunhunterit342]

I'm a Christian and I profoundly disagree with Matt's world view, but I enjoyed finally seeing someone who wouldn't be manipulated by Peterson.

[@Yo64130]

This conversation is what di spelled me from Jordan Peterson I am so thankful of it. It showed me that Peterson's act is no greater than a Netflix comedy special.

[@steft7903]

Peterson's body language is very interesting. Wringing his hands and feet, flustered and squirming around. Never seen him so uncomfortable.

[@Surestick88]

I've seen similar body language in guilty people during police interrogation.

[@michasosnowski5918]

I would explain it as a person who was very troubled and then got "better" on drugs. The drugs gave him confidence that he projected outside. That won him large audience. He cashed in on that audience and now he is rich. His drugs dont work anymore, so he cant win debates with pure confidence they gave him. Now hes worldview that is based on bullshit religious "arguments" can be seen as weak and baseless. You can also see that advice he is giving in his book about raising kids(spanking, timeouts) is ultimately what created him and his problems that he took drugs for in the first place.

[@daylinlott5723]

He starts out the debate posed rather beautifully, channeling his inner Greek statue, and uses his elegant body well. That was the pose he hoped to keep.

[@CAKESLAPPA]

Zizek was so charitable to him, it makes a lot of sense why.

[@ince55ant]

coke behaviours

[@You_Do_Have_The_Power_33]

Peterson is the real life person version of every ultimate asshole character James Woods has ever played.

[@michaelblankenau6598]

Yes. And they both think they’re geniuses .

[@KnoxBronson]

You win 2024

[@kalikagamers]

James woods has an iq of 180 so the genius label is apt

[@lizcollinson2692]

Without the charm

[@michaelblankenau6598]

@@kalikagamers no standardized IQ test measures go up to 180… so that should tell you it’s b.s.

[@On-The-Way78]

Kudos to Matt. All Jordan managed to do is pedal around in circles, explaining precious little with the usual hollow phrases and fancy words.

[@davidtempest263]

I'm Buddhist. There is no god in Buddhism But I try to behave in ways that create value. The behaviors aren't defined _ the point of Buddhism is to develop the highest wisdom so that we can think, speak and behave in ways that create the greatest value in a given situation.

[@CodyLenhart]

Just fucking let him talk.

[@DashCat9]

I'm sorry but the point you were in the middle of making contradicts the metaphysical. Have to interupt.

[@ProProboscis]

@@DashCat9 You're always right, especially when you have to interrupt 😂😂😂

[@ljb5163]

I still can’t believe this guy was a therapist.

[@odinson6348]

I can only imagine. Sit down with a therapist only to have him talk the whole time.

[@PhillipG34]

Ur trying to tell ur life story and he will just interrupt u. Lol

[@flightmasteronezeroone907]

There’s a space after the e

[@zeitxgeist]

His psychology stuff is genuinely very good, he's done quite a few great lectures that were genuinely moving. But that's the field he's specifically educated in; the rest of the stuff he talks about is only understood from reading a book which is mostly surface level.

[@luckmall]

🫣 because he has different opinion then Matt? What are you talking about? Therapist can be only person who never lost a debate? Most of therapist dont depate at all? What about them? All what Matt is doing his whole life is screaming that he doesnt belive in god and putting people on hold on his show. JP actually helped somebody, his books mean something to many many people. He can talk about very difficult topic and he is not afraid to stand his ground.

[@mastersclassfitness3359]

Professor Peterson is one of Western Societies wisest tribal elders. He's absolutely brilliant, and has added value to the lives of millions, myself included. I've never been so embarrassed for him. Terrible performance. Totally outclassed. In contrast, Matt was logical, concise and had perfect emotional control. '

[@kylemagley6960]

It blows my mind that people (very few now, granted) take Peterson seriously.

[@coffeetalk924]

I heard Peterson's manager recommended he not debate Dillahunty again 😆

[@michman2]

I would hope Matt wouldn't want to waste his time doing so. Except that they get paid.... so......

[@breadandbutter726]

As someone whose pro assisted suicide I still think JP is nutty for that argument lmao. That’d be a horrible way to go vs the drugs they have to float you off these days.

[@coffeetalk924]

​@@michman2more entertaining than some of the clowns Matt's been debating lately. At least Peterson has a huge following and to watch Matt expose him again would be pleasurable 😉

[@TheRealRoch108]

😂😂😂

[@paulinemclean375]

Quite honestly , this was painful to watch.I give Dillahunty full marks for not hauling off and decking him.

[@eddiestorey9633]

Arguing with Jordan is like arguing with a child, a drunk, or a religious person, it’s a circular conversation

[@dorothysay8327]

Religious people the rotor over contradict your ridiculously bigoted sentence

[@Tarumarugan]

Don’t disrespect drunk ppl like that

[@MrHerbsti]

@@Tarumarugan Right - IMO Peterson acts like a drunk religious child...

[@nathanlevesque7812]

try proofreading @@dorothysay8327

[@ClownFacePapa]

Matt literally doesn’t know what a women is…

[@TheMarsCydonia]

It's that he does not care to pander to your delicate feelings about what a women is... It's not like you can give a good reason why anyone should pander to your feelings just because you're upset.

[@ClownFacePapa]

@@TheMarsCydonia it’s not a mater of pandering, it’s a matter of what is true. Men are not women, we are a sexually dimorphic species. Im not offended that you and Matt are dead wrong, it just means I can never take anything you say seriously because you and him lack any credibility.

[@TheMarsCydonia]

@@ClownFacePapa Case in point. There is no objectively true meanings for words. They're all dependant on the usage people makes of them. I get that it upsets your feelings terribly when the word "woman" is used to refer to someone that isn't of your preferred characteristic for that word but... As I said, neither Dillahunty or I care to pander to your upset feelings. So let's agree that you can't take us seriously and that we also can't take you seriously because you have no credibility or a good argument. Just upset feelings.

[@ClownFacePapa]

@@TheMarsCydonia words have no meaning? That’s a strange hill to die on. Yes the definitions of words are a social construct in a certain sense, but we constructed their meaning to directly represent the objective world around us, they serve a vital purpose for communicating how things are. The truth words represent is objective and undeniable, which is why your argument doesn’t make any sense. Sure, go on and pretend a very basic word has a different meaning for you, drift further into delusion and confusion, I will be waiting in the real world for you, if you ever need clarity and truth.

[@TheMarsCydonia]

@@ClownFacePapa How did you go from "No objectively true meaning" to "no meaning"? Do you really need someone to explain the difference between the two? But no, your opening statement notwithstanding, you do understand that words are constructed to represent things and thus have no objectively true meaning. So again, I'll repeat something you appear determined to not understand: I get that you're upset that people when people use the word "woman" to represent something different from what you want... But no one has to pander to your upset feelings. Once more, for you to finally catch up: No one has to pander to your upset feelings Is that clear yet? Just in case: *No one has to pander to your upset feelings*

[@timmigrant6597]

For a psychologist who exhibits this type of interactive behaviour, Jordan appears mentally disturbed, aside from his normal tete-a-tete. It would be useful to know the date of this discussion and be able to place it in the JP psych timeline.

[@brothergrief9531]

I see Mr Peterson's technique is to interrupt every point being made with a new question and to make it difficult to make any point at all.

[@ocheltree1]

It reminds me of the arguments I had with my narcissistic ex husband. Telling me what I REALLY believed, meant, meant to say, never answering a question, interrupting constantly, veering off topic at whip lash speed. Only HE knew the true meaning of my actions, words, deeds, choice of clothing, food, preferences, he knew it ALL. JP is an annoying contrarian for the sake of being contrary. Unpalatable word salad.

[@princequestly2218]

Yeah he doesn’t allow him to answer so he can’t ever destroy his argument, that he knows will get destroyed. he just wastes time with words that don’t even mean anything they just sound good to dumb people.

[@jeremiahhammer2282]

Nailed it.

[@kenl3805]

And at least half of them are questions that are on the very extreme end being that if his questions rang true they rang true for an extremely rare exception.

[@WoodysGamertag]

Winning a debate is far easier if you're right. I have no idea why Jordan Peterson is trying to argue against, "Cutting off my head is bad for my well being". JP, just stfu. That's not a winnable position. When somebody says he doesn't like being murdered you just agree that's common ground and move on.

[@Pangburn]

We would love to have you on as a guest for our Sunday show. Please email [e-mail] if you're interested.

[@eyemastervideo]

But they have to, otherwise suffering is for nothing. Their god makes them suffer in this existence, and it can't be for nothing... It's their bad logic

[@racingbrah1348]

There are clearly many people, who prefer death to life. But it’s not the point and JP reminded that. You aren’t even capable of listening.

[@lemonademan987]

Well, what if you're dying of cancer, there's no possible cure, and the worst part is that you're going to be in immense pain for the rest of your miserable existence unless someone chops off your head. It would certainly be better you end you now because there's no possible way that you could preserve your wellness.

[@grimfang4]

Jordan was hunting for a stalemate with these arguments because he could do no better.

[@colinfarrell33]

What is Matt’s account for Morality? By what standard of his, is something right or wrong? If it’s based on well being alone, the argument falls apart. It’s never in anyone’s best interest to risk their lives for someone they love more than themselves. Nor is it to give money to a stranger, or to visit an inmate in jail. It benefits others. That’s called empathy it’s done out of love and care which is a metaphysical nature.

[@rhymeswithteeth]

Peterson's body language is the same each time he's losing a debate. He sits forward in his chair, leans forward and taps his feet a lot. Quite different from when he's feeling very confident and reclining in his chair with his legs crossed.

[@Paddy-vc3fl]

Yeah, I almost felt sorry for him here. Almost. 😄

[@floridamanHooning]

"except that when your dead there is no being, so theres no wellbeing" that was hilarious

[@chocolatemilkforeverybody2569]

that is an assumption - we do not know this

[@natanaelsantosdelgado9086]

@@chocolatemilkforeverybody2569😂😂😂😂

[@cyclonebee8175]

That's the point. JP goes into discussions with total good faith in attempts to steel man the other guys argument. He also had one goal which is to learn. It's very easy to play to the croud and make jokes when someone is doing that.

[@kylerodd2342]

@@cyclonebee8175I mean, he really doesn’t. Tons of examples of this. A literal ton.

[@m.a.sperry3424]

@@chocolatemilkforeverybody2569 Yes, the assumption I make is that I knew nothing before I was born and I will know nothing after I'm dead.

[@michaelbballard]

You can't break someone as broken as Jordan, that poor man is lost.

[@plunderpunk2]

All the points awarded to you, sir.

[@zenbear9952]

He's even worse now than he was here too

[@helveticaification]

Shrill and querulous as always when he meets someone he can't intimidate with his manner.

[@mmninc.848]

​@@plunderpunk2Have an updoot, fellow Redditor!

[@jordanchen23]

So all that respect I had him after that Cathy Newman video was just evidence that I really loathe Cathy Newman.

[@user-ub2bl5np1z]

Self Worth, at least the point of wanting to preserve your own life.. as a Metaphysical Argument is a very interesting conversation to have.. And I guess you can view it in the sense of “well your perspective on your own self worth in comparison to the worth of upholding societal customs, or compared to the value of conducting proper worship, even if it means your own death”.. I mean we’ve see this in many cultures around the world, the issue is that this type of belief usually attributes itself to religious fanaticism or in some cases extreme nationalism. A cool conversation nonetheless

[@shampson1975]

Funny. I don't really think the conversation ended there, and Jordan interrupted way too much, but he was right on every count. Sometimes, you just have to cut in and break every attempt to establish a false truth otherwise the mass of falsehoods gets too big to contend with.

[@NoEvidenceForGod]

So funny how JP's status and prominence were basically the reason Matt took his arguments seriously. If this was The Hangup and JP was a random caller, Matt would've hung up after about 5 mins.

[@nicodemusbrausebier5378]

This probably plays a role but I think it's more about format/setting. If Dillahunty ended up on stage like that with a caller, I think he'd treat them similarly.

[@mattbrown4269]

I’ve thought that many times about Matt’s debates. I think getting paid has something to do with his increased patience for JP’s bullshit.

[@MrSparkula]

If Jordy Pederstone was only capable of feeling embarrassment…

[@watson5551]

he's a typical extra chrispy.

[@michaelmartin5177]

This made me laugh

[@philosopherpeasant]

He knows he's been a charlatan all his life...he's already embarrassed about that and tries to cover it up with everything he does and says.

[@sparks480v3]

Sociopath

[@EthanBalkfield]

I think it's pretty clear that he is most definitely embarrassed and uncomfortable here based on his body language.

[@fungussa]

JP's frame is so weak here, the lobster is hunched over and it's indeed a nervous lobster. Far unlike Dillahunty who's calm, upright, relaxed and in control.

[@jerrellrice3413]

I love that 2 of my favorite people, who are actually extraordinarily intelligent(Sam Harris & Matt Dillahunty), dismantled this "fake smart" guy Jordan Peterson. Lol

[@allisterlobo7107]

That awkward moment - when JP laughed while everyone was laughing at him - was priceless

[@superfly2535]

I saw that; he thought he did something lol. Everyone is thinking “this dumbass thinks he sounds smart for throwing out complex terms with absolutely no meaning behind them” lmao

[@thedevereauxbunch]

Does Peterson consider he’s won an argument if he cuts off anyone trying to answer his questions? He comes across as a bit of a wanker if I’m permitted to be blunt

[@jochenkraus7016]

To me it sounded like he was going through his gotcha supply and that's all he has. But what did JP answer to the last bit?

[@boembo6627]

Bit of a wanker is very restrained in my opinion.

[@jesschristian5700]

If I based a statement I was about to make on a premise that was obviously incorrect, why would you sit through the next five minutes of listening to me not make any sense to you in the name of letting me speak? I would propose he is trying to make sure he understands what looks like sand is in fact sand before watching him show him how to build a house wisely.

[@civildiscourse2000]

Permission granted.

[@aprildelamora6492]

@@jesschristian5700 except Matt hadn’t even gotten to the point he was trying to make, which happened a lot in this debate. Matt would start talking, and Jordan would immediately cut him off hoping he was going to throw Matt of his thought process. It seemed Jordan was out of his league. Have you wondered why there hasn’t been a round 2? 😂

[@SuperFree06]

Jordan loves to play debating games and semantic gymnastics. But he doesn't love facts so much.

[@perfectlyroundcircle]

But what is a game in a metaphysical sense? And is it really gymnastics if you're playing with words and not your body? Tune in next time to find out, if you can avoid my interruptions.

[@SuperFree06]

You don't win friends with Salad (including word salad). The wisdom and sayings of Homer Simpson.@@perfectlyroundcircle

[@petyrkowalski9887]

Having a debate with Peterson is like playing chess with a pigeon: he will shit all over the board, knock all the pieces over and fly off, squalking, claiming victory.

[@gregtidrow7717]

He'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

[@lexfiddle]

Well said!!!!!!!!!

[@colinsparman26]

Picturesque and spot-on!

[@janvanderlinden2118]

haha best comment ever

[@Xzenoangel_]

You wouldnt be able to string a sentence together in a debate against Dr Peterson, glad you enjoyed this out of context clip of a friendly disagreement and came to the conclusion that not only was it somehow a victory for your "guy" but that you have also somehow determined that you are smarter than Dr Peterson... enjoy your delusion =)

[@kriegmesserdclxvi2833]

Peterson is graduate of the Ben Shapieo school of never letting your opponent complete a fucking sentence. The debates need to have one and only one active microphone at a time, controlled by the moderator.

[@MrLtia1234]

The problem with that approach is that it has to assume a degree of honesty in those taking part. It would just allow JP to gish gallop to avoid actually addressing anything. At least here (I mean the whole debate, not this video) we got a rare occurrence of his obvious nonsense being called out to him with a right to reply. Of course he would try to deflect any way he could. This is why his publicist told him to never debate Dilahunty again- likely because they didn't know who he was when they agreed to debate.

[@JimmyNuisance]

@@MrLtia1234 You don’t need to "assume a degree of honesty in those taking part." you listen to the other guy’s arguments, and when it’s your turn to speak you counter the arguments…. If the person lied you can point that out without interruption… Watch any debate by scientists and you’ll see this in full effect. The main problem there is gish galloping, and that gets called out by the next person when they get the mic. When Stephen Fry debated catholics it was under the one person at a time structure, watch that.

[@MrLtia1234]

@@JimmyNuisance Yes, by scientists. Not by celebrity trolls. You assume I've not seen a debate by scientists and not seen that Stephen Fry debate which *everyone* has seen, which is silly. If someone can't or won't counter the arguments (like JP in this debate), they will use misdirection, gish gallops etc. to avoid it. Simple.

[@kriegmesserdclxvi2833]

After a point is addressed, the moderator shifts audio back the opponent. If they try this Gish Gallop, their mic is cut the second it is realised they are beginning a second point, and the opponent is instructed to ignore it.

[@archermadsen7744]

Benny boy gets destroyed whenever he tried to debate someone other than college students.

[@jasonphillip1966]

In order the learn from another person you have to be able to hear them, unless of course you already think you know everything in which case keep interrupting….

[@xdon_suranox6455]

This bald dude is operating on such a basic level.

[@wysonlegion5398]

Ur sooooo much more advanced.

[@xdon_suranox6455]

@@wysonlegion5398 Thank you

[@wysonlegion5398]

@@xdon_suranox6455 explain further

[@Error_404_Account_Deleted]

Peterson never should have traded Xanax for religion 😂

[@sathan_wept]

This just made my day😭😭😭

[@archermadsen7744]

Benzos

[@Longtack55]

JP is incredibly arrogant. Matt's name is Matt, but JP would argue it isn’t. JP's rhetoric is that of a smarmy 14 year old.

[@MMAGamblingTips]

Is his name really Matt? I mean think about it, if you break down the metaphysical substrate of the letter M, you aren’t going to get the name you came out with. What is a name if it’s only three letters in? We need to understand the transcendental importance of each of the remaining letters soul to determine if this is a name worth saving or is it just a jar of salsa. These are the things we have to consider.

[@einzeller85]

man even as an atheist it really hurts to see someone who still believes struggling with the scary notion of having to completely reconstructing ones own moral value system upon realizing that the previous one was based on lies and false assumptions. like just look at the body language. Peterson is fighting a terrible fight and obviously struggles with the fear of losing that fight while Dillahunty is just so sure of what he believes in that his water isn't even troubled.

[@funnyguy148]

Never seen Peterson act like this. And I’ve watched hours and hours of him. Clearly lost this debate.