When is Honesty the Best Policy? || Two Hot Takes Podcast || Reddit Readings

[@TwoHotTakes]

TW Story #1 for sexual assault. I want to apologize to anyone we have hurt by our comments on this story. We did not realize the gravity of the situation and our comments were insensitive. It's never our intention to hurt anyone, and we try our best week to week/story to story, but this is clearly a take we got wrong. Thank you to those sharing their thoughts in the comments. While we did remove a lot our conversation we feel this story is still important to leave in to highlight how male sexual assault can look different than what you typically think of. That by removing consent at any time it then becomes sexual assault. It's seen in our media how it is brushed off and not addressed (Bridgerton being a prime example) and others might not recognize the seriousness of this situation, like we didn't. We hope by keeping this story in it creates a larger conversation and more awareness.

[@camerondayton3531]

Now THIS is a good take. Thank you guys for the apology and for being willing to move forward and grow. 😊

[@gigibabineaux5142]

Letting people hear the bad take alongside an apology/disclaimer instead of erasing it completely takes guts. Thanks for editing it into the podcast too for people who don’t watch the videos and won’t see this comment. This is a good way to keep the conversation open while also preventing further harm when more people hear the story.

[@alliebrowning8875]

Thank you!!! This is a GREAT response!!

[@Jasminelovesyouxo]

I love how this podcast at least takes the criticism and adapts as needed. Thank you THT team!!

[@RingyDingDing]

Thank you! This is why we’ve stayed fans. ❤

[@allisonsuarez6325]

A crime was committed against the guy in the first story equivalent to SA. I think this is beyond “getting involved in someone’s relationship” this is coercive.

[@rosalie5358]

THANK YOU! 🙌🏼 EDIT: I JUST GOT TO THE PART “HE DIDNT WANT TO HAVE SEX BUT DID IT FOR ME” HOLY FUCK GET THIS MAN AWAY FROM HER.

[@khalicocat]

I'm pretty sure it's full on rape & horrifying that people are blaming him for using POM as if that's an excuse....

[@BisexualBeauty]

He agreed...theres no r@pe stop throwing that word around. If you have u protected sex assume.you will have a child.

[@squirrellypop]

EXACTLY MY THOUGHTS. SHE ASSAULTED HIM. This goes so far beyond just "getting involved in relationship drama." He didn't want to but she nagged him into it (coercion) and then she blatantly disregarded it when he told her to stop so she could force him to finish inside her. It doesn't matter if he eventually "consented" to the sexual act, he didn't consent to what she did.

[@rosalie5358]

@@BisexualBeauty “he was exhausted and said he didnt want to have sex, but did it for me” rape.

[@sueaceves2398]

I just listened to story 1 and no matter how you guys spin it. OP's sister SA her boyfriend to baby trap him. She wanted a baby and just took away that choice from him. Yes, Tom didn't wear a condom. However, the sister chose to stop taking birth control, didn't tell him to pullout. She orchestrated this situation to baby trap him because of his views on abortion. The fact that she decided to bring a baby into this world in order to lock tom in really sounds desperate, and awful. Because I can already see it that she is going to continue having kids to make sure tom never leaves even if tom no longer wants future kids. The sister is crazy and I feel bad for that kid.

[@RingyDingDing]

Especially if you consider if the roles were reversed and what their take would’ve actually been. Yikes. They would’ve ripped Tom a new one if he baby trapped her and they know it.

[@sueaceves2398]

@RingyDingDing agreed the reaction has to be the same even if the situations are reversed. If its bad if it was a guy doing it to a girl its bad if a girl is doing it to a guy.

[@lidiacruzgranados]

@@RingyDingDing Especially when they said “he could have just pushed her off” like that sounds like such extremely victim blaming and they wouldn’t dare to say anything remotely like that had the roles been reversed.

[@zubodospectacular8598]

😮s

[@kristinaerickson2353]

She literally stayed on top when he said to stop. Thats RAPE so plain and simple. The coercion into sex and lie about birthcontrol aside it's Rape. All that does it make it worse.

[@camerondayton3531]

A little disappointed, as a male survivor of SA, that you guys were so easily able to define R when the roles were reversed but weren't able to draw that hardline when it was a male victim and a female offender. It is pretty invalidating.

[@cupofcozy708]

So sad that people still won't acknowledge men can get SA'd. I got downvoted for mentioning this and he should be told immediately

[@deenarosenthal5200]

THT would be so sad to hear this feedback. i think they dropped the ball on this but unintentionally and will address it next episode

[@camerondayton3531]

@@deenarosenthal5200 Intention and Impact are two different things. I'm sure their intentions weren't malicious. But the impact is palpable. I really hope they address it in a video.

[@maggiedk]

As a fellow survivor, I'm so sorry. I'm disgusted with their response to the story, and in general with the way people treat male SA victims. What you went through was wrong and not your fault, and whoever did it deserves NO defending 💜 I agree with you, I think something this serious deserves a video response, and honestly they should remove that story from this video because of how harmful their response was.

[@jimenasorich1506]

I was very disappointed also, I´m a victim too and as a female I´m deeply disturbed by their take and honestly they need to apologize

[@Rockinashy]

Story 1: the fact that he didn’t want to have sex because he was exhausted but she still forced him to and then didn’t stop when he asked… That is actually insane.

[@theanxiousavocado]

This is literally the cleanest-cut version of coercion & rape you could get. I’m so disgusted by the entirety of Story 1, and even more so by Morgan’s defensiveness in these comments………

[@alliebrowning8875]

@@theanxiousavocado Yes!! It’s so bizarre! I’ve seen influencers get cancelled for less so Morgan should really figure out how to get it together

[@Rockinashy]

@@theanxiousavocado Yeah she definitely didn’t grasp how serious that story was. I want to know what all the comments on Reddit said about it. It makes me so sad how male victims don’t get taken seriously.

[@lalibelardo1706]

@@theanxiousavocadoam i missing something? They clearly discussed how this is considered R since she violated his consent? It didn't seem like she was defending the sister? 😅

[@theanxiousavocado]

@@lalibelardo1706 this video was uploaded last week, made private, edited, and remade public again. Before bits of the video were cut out, there was about a 10-minute segment of Morgan playing “Devil’s advocate” for the sister, expressing that she shouldn’t feel guilty because she “got what she wanted” and that, if he didn’t wanna get her pregnant, he should’ve just “thrown her off” or “wore a condom.” It was veryyyy victim-blamey. When people started pointing this out, though, Morgan started getting super argumentative in the comments (now deleted), making points such as “I was just trying to show both sides to the story.” It took about 3 days for the video to be edited and for a formal apology to be made. That’s most likely what you are missing…..

[@squirrellypop]

Story 1 is assault (as is the bridgerton scenario). Consent can be revoked at any time. He told her to stop and move and get off him. She blatantly ignored him to trap him. That's a violation of consent. It's so disgusting that people are defending her and joking about it and blaming him. We know damn well people wouldn't be having the same reaction if the genders were reversed. That sister is a disgusting person. She coerced him into something he didn't even want to do and then ignored his consent. This isn't just "meddling in someone's relationship drama." He DESERVES to know what she did to him. This was intentional. She planned it. I'd want to know if MY partner/fling did something planned and malicious to me. Makes me wonder what else she's capable of doing in terms if manipulating him. Doesn't matter if they were planning to get married, it was still a violation of consent and boundaries. Like someone else said in a comment below, this is another form of stealthing, and it feels like y'all are minimizing this whole situation. Not a good take.

[@strawberrycelia]

The detail about them being childhood friends is soul-crushingly sad. Imagine someone youve loved and trusted all your life doing that… just very sad. I hope he gets out and heals

[@HALFRlCAN12]

Now, if he doesn’t want anything to do with the kid, he’ll probably be viewed as the asshole. Women are never “wrong” in situations like this, it’s such bullshit. If this happened to me and I find out, I’m gone

[@conniequintana3955]

Exactly! And if she's capable of this, Lord knows what else she's capable of. She might see that she's able to get away with doing things like this and continue to lie and manipulate the relationship to get what she wants. So yes her deserves to know. I don't think there's any "playing devil's advocate" with this situation. If it was the other way around, as you said, this wouldn't even be a conversation of whether it is wrong or not. I think the sister (OP) sees how wrong this is and potentially sees that her sister has a way of doing things like this and that's why she feels the need to tell the soon to be father/husband. I had paused to write my comment but after further listening to OP's edit, why would the sister do this if they were already planning on getting married??? This is absolutely insane and I know we still make bad decisions in our 20s, but at 24 there is no reason to be manipulating a situation like this. Especially when it means bringing a child into the world.

[@strawberrycelia]

@@HALFRlCAN12 the woman is absolutely in the wrong here. if this happened to you, id hope that those around you who care for you would know better and support you. i’m sorry that you feel like they wouldn’t

[@yael1473]

That story about the sister blabbing at Xmas is the fault of this culture of shaming in public without confronting privately first. This podcast is also guilty because you constantly cheer this ridiculous behaviour

[@steph76o]

Morgan you are 1000% NTA. The most important thing is that your grandma got something she needed. Everyone had an opportunity to contribute and should be grateful that those who could help, helped.

[@methineetongsuk5259]

Exactly!! I'm appalled by the rest of the family's reactions. Like what does it have to do with them? If someone I loved got something they are excited about from someone else, I would be so happy for them!

[@oxykxtten]

@@methineetongsuk5259completely agree

[@Ciela531]

Definitely agree 💯

[@tee8080]

I wouldn’t be able to chip in much to a car but i would give $100 or get them a gas gift card for the car. There is always ways to chip in and appreciate someone without spending lots of money. You’re definitely not the asshole.

[@zeroghostdog5641]

Agree, even if you just give a small amount. It's the thought behind it that counts. They all had the chance but didn't take it and started acting pissy after the fact. Are they all children? Because I think it's really childish.

[@ixnine5116]

The first story is vile. Like, its just rape.

[@rosalie5358]

i was really surprised there wasnt a content warning as they usually do?? that is rape. she “pretended not to hear him” she KNEW and chose not to listen. fuck her. disgusting vile person. did they not even acknowledge this in the ep?? i JUST started EDIT - they do acknowledge it, but the amount of victim blaming that happens during that story is INSANE. she even said he didnt want to have sex in the first place.

[@hhill_03]

@@alistairrae9807this. I love this podcast sm but idk after this take, they love to defend horrific women on this podcast (I.e. that story a few episodes back where the woman stalked her husband for years)

[@moony-_-.]

it definitely was rape and I doubt anyone would be playing "devil's advocate" if a man were to do this

[@moon_sun1964]

@@hhill_03yeah I noticed that too

[@TwoHotTakes]

I thought I said she was crazy?@@hhill_03

[@baileytaylor203]

I feel like the first story can count as assault .. so I’d want to know if my partner deliberately did something with malicious intent. It says a lot about their character

[@rosalie5358]

it just straight up IS sexual assault. he DIDNT WANT to have sex in the first place. he “did it for her” and she TOLD HIM she would take a plan B afterwards. this is already NOT CONSENSUAL. on top of this, he says to get off and she “pretends to not hear him” you mean IGNORING HIS LACK OF CONSENT? im sickened.

[@AniaSchutzengel]

Also, if the sister is telling the truth they were gonna get married, no need to baby trap...

[@BriannaEmily]

@@AniaSchutzengel this one. If there was already talk about getting married why get pregnant on purpose without his consent.

[@van2165]

It feels like assault bc it is assault and way beyond "what would it help"

[@baileytaylor203]

@@AniaSchutzengel this also

[@PiwiKiwi9]

No Morgan, you are ABSOLUTELY not the AH. Your grandma Christmas story makes me LIVID. The fact that they immediately turned around and made it about themselves speaks volumes about who they are innately and nothing about you. You are a kind and generous caring daughter. I bet MONEY that this side of the family is jealous of your success with the podcast, with your PHD in OT, that they never congratulate you on your accomplishments. Im so sorry that you had that experience with them and so proud of you for being so strong to talk about it on your podcast. I hope that they hear it and are ASHAMED. Love you. Don’t cry, youre amazing ❤

[@jessicaroses9831]

Even Netflix put a trigger warning on that episode of Bridgerton for rape. That’s what happened there. I’m not sure how y’all are so calm about that.

[@elliemorrisette]

literally so disappointing but not surprising from them

[@Cici-pw1or]

Cuz it’s a woman. We all know how she’d react had it been a man who committed the assault. She also changes her tone and opinion based on who the guest is

[@shelby_button]

@@Cici-pw1orcan imagine it’s also awkward when a man is saying “he could’ve pushed her off” too. And I won’t put that on Justin because it’s an unfortunate result of societal expectations that men somehow “can’t be assaulted”. But it’s a narrative we need to change

[@r0ckmom]

@@Cici-pw1orshe also repeatedly changes her mind the second anyone disagrees with her instead of actually having a debate with them. Fake asf.

[@lalie9995]

​@@r0ckmomexcept for the topics that SHE feels strongly about. She'd never flip flop on female masterbat*on or women giving birth but somehow she doesn't feel strongly enough about male victims of SA to take a firm stand and not "play devil's advocate". It's disgusting

[@arbitor412]

How did I just listen to two people describe a rape as a “terrible mistake but something you two can get through” are you guys insane?

[@minidude27]

That comment had me livid, hope Justin never gets invited back and Morgan takes these comments on board

[@fromsami]

Story 1: that’s literally SA, and the fact that y’all downplayed it is very telling :/ the sister ADMITTED she pretended to not hear him, and that she intentionally got pregnant to trap him, yet you guys still justified her and gave her the benefit of the doubt. If the roles were reversed, y’all wouldn’t be having that take just saying…

[@cupofcozy708]

Commented this on the original post got downvoted. The amount of people that still don't acknowledge men can get SA'd is insane

[@fromsami]

@@cupofcozy708 which is scary in itself :(

[@lidiacruzgranados]

What really shocked me was at 12:45 she says that it was a dumb move and that because her prefrontal cortex isn’t fully developed since she’s 24 as if that makes it any difference? My older brother assaulted me when he was in middle school and it didn’t negate the fact that I was assaulted. He also knew it was wrong and did it. A GROWN WOMAN at 24 should know by now. How is it possible that it was a dumb move when she purposely planned for it to happened? Playing devil’s advocate does not change the fact that she was siding with a potential assaulter.

[@sheinakinn2936]

It's not sexual assault, it is rape. They are different crimes and mustn't be conflated! Truly so disappointed by their take on this story.

[@lirikthehero385]

@@lidiacruzgranados​​⁠​⁠​⁠I wish they kept it all in because I’m listening to it after edited and reposted. But I know! It’s like saying a 24 year old unal¡ved people but their prefrontal cortex isn’t fully developed so it isn’t their fault

[@alexissulley7803]

The first story- there would be 100% different responses (and probably some jail time) if it was a MAN holding down a WOMAN to trap her. We need to do better and hold women accountable too.

[@sophiemarquez2042]

THIS!

[@joevictor53]

Yeah it sucks that they needed to reverse the genders before they even considered how bad it was and even then they didn't get it until the comment called them out

[@nikkicarreon]

The first story is stealthing, it’s SA, please 🙏🏻 do some research on it, I love this podcast but I feel like this isn’t the first time I’ve heard y’all downplay it (not maliciously, but just please take this into consideration next time)

[@starsonapollo2]

Right!! Stealthing can happen to men too !!

[@bailey7792]

No it isnt. Stealthing involves the secret removal of a condom during sex by either party, without the other persons knowledge or consent. There was never a condom used at any point. Neither was one ever secretly removed. So I hate to say it.. but this would not be considered stealthing. It's reproductive coercion.. and It's an extremely vile, and shitty thing to do. But it isnt against the law.

[@starsonapollo2]

@@bailey7792 why can we not be allowed to treat this in the same manner though? The willfull entrapment of a person by way of impregnation should be treated with the same respect regardless of the malicious party being the one carrying the child. Nobody is asking for another definition, the implication is to give this gentleman the respect of any victim

[@bailey7792]

Why are you asking me why it can't be considered stealthing? I don't write the laws. What you called it, is not what it is. Maybe you should be asking for the definition, because my original comment states what stealthing means. Which isnt what you described. What you described is reproductive coercion. So I guess if you want it to be considered stealthing.. then get the law changed. Seems you're forgetting that I said it was a vile and shitty thing to do, it just isnt illegal. So how about hit up your law makers to implement new laws? Instead of asking me why can't we just decide to make something, something else.

[@starsonapollo2]

@@alistairrae9807 i think it's easy to get upset at that, but there are frankly better solutions to meet people where they're at. I think if we use the same language we have developed to support female victims it can better get the point across with how serious this is, because often we are met with double standards when it comes to the language we use about male victims. The worry about emasculation and of their reputation often shrouds the true impact these actions have on men in private, and frankly leaves them with no grace to own their truth if they believe themselves to be victims. I'd love to keep this discussion going ! Mich love💕

[@BriannaEmily]

Story one is so far beyond a “dumb move”. That’s coercion and considered rape. Damn, the mark was definitely missed with this story. It doesn’t matter if you’re married, SA/rape can still happen between marriages. Yall took way too long to get the idea that it’s rape.

[@EstherDwomoh]

Morgan, I love you lots, but the take on the first story was not it. When someone says or indicates NO/STOP, you stop, immediately. Whether it be with sex, playing games, tickling, whatever. As you’ve said repeatedly before, NO is a complete sentence. Consent is key, always. I wish you would’ve switched the genders to better understand why the first story is assault UPDATE: … it’s actually unfortunate that genders have to be switched for people to better understand when sexual assault against men is legitimate assault. Just because men are physically bigger than their female assaulters/rapists does not mean they can’t be assaulted :(

[@SammyLammy1D]

As a survivor myself, I am disgusted. Her "apology " is NOT it. I am honestly considering stop listening. Because this isn't the first time I have gotten the ick from a take that she later "adresses" in the comments. But SA is horrible, and the victim blaming and downplaying of the situation made me feel sick.

[@Cosmiccrying]

@@alistairrae9807she’s also so b\tchy in her comments (the ones I’ve seen at least) doubling down. Gross

[@NNNN-rt5ww]

@@alistairrae9807 no fr. I had to pause the podcast just because I don't know how to process her take

[@DiMagnolia]

Stealthing, baby trapping, passport bros, and dread game are all scary forms of manipulation no matter what gender each person in the relationship is.

[@kateajurors8640]

Haven't heard it all but wth is dread game

[@HilloftheTrees]

@@kateajurors8640 Me neither, but I assume it's making somebody scared of you so they listen. Kind of like a very abusive control freak? idk

[@lirikthehero385]

@@kateajurors8640 Literally emotionally abuse your partner, trauma bond with them, and then covertly or overtly threaten to leave once they've become codependent.

[@TabbyWithMittens]

Also it’s fucking wild he would say “he can just push her off/tilt her”. Thats like telling a woman victim “oh you could just punched him, moved away, etc.”. Also I’m no expert but I feel like that’s a way to get something damaged/broken especially if she was determined to keep on top ☠️

[@DiMagnolia]

I thought the same.

[@TabbyWithMittens]

@@DiMagnolia I thought that when I was driving home. His comment hit me wrong but I couldn't put my finger onto it til now.

[@n9na_marie]

Um, the guy in the first story revoked his consent near the end of sex when he told the girl to get off of him. Consent can be revoked at any time. She didn’t listen (said so herself, she didn’t just “not hear him”) and stayed on him literally to baby trap him. The guy was sexually assaulted, OP should ABSOLUTELY tell him what the sister said, he deserves to know that this was all done under malicious intent. Yeah it’ll break them apart, which is what needs to be done. I could never stay with a partner that so egregiously deceived me- it doesn’t matter what history, what “sexual tension” there was between us in the past. This is not one to play devils advocate with. There is no advocating sexual assault. Should the dude have been wearing a condom if he didn’t want to have a baby? Absolutely. But the phrasing behind that is leaning VERY victim-blamey in this situation considering the context of the story. This isn’t a silly little drama between OP’s sister and partner, this is a situation where it’s important to get into another person’s business, because now an innocent baby is going to be brought into this world under incredibly poor circumstances. I hope both the partner and baby get away from OP’s sister. Disgusting.

[@clarissathompson0103]

Yeah, she's just going to do it again when she wants another child! She wanted a baby and took advantage of his trust and didn't care that he was tired from work, and I'm sure she can't even begin to fathom how much it will change their lives.

[@chy8427]

I’ve never been disgusted by a THT episode. I was waiting the entire first story where they see this for what it was, a hard R. Hearing all the things he should have done 🤢 I’ll be back to THT if I forget this. If the roles were reversed, Morgan would have reeeeeemed into the man.

[@eseosea5580]

Glad to see everyone calling the first story SA. I literally ran over from Apple podcasts to say this that behaviour is unacceptable and we can't normalize it.

[@_froschy]

Same!!! I’m so shocked I needed to check the comments.

[@ems3991]

Normalize taking responsibility for creating a child.

[@averymeyers7782]

Gotta say, I love this podcast and have been a listener for years. But when Justin said the guy in the 1st story “could’ve just pushed her off.” That made my stomach twist into knots. Because many people in those situations- especially SA victims- will freeze. And we don’t know- she could be bigger than him too. But that statement just made me feel so ill, and reminds me of when SA victims speak out only to be met with “why didn’t you just push them off/fight back.”

[@angelalurtz3638]

Yep, that's literally the equivalent of "why didn't she just close her legs?"

[@njc1304]

Morgan I've commented this before but please do a service industry episode. Just customer service, splitting the bill, friends who don't Venmo you their payment after you put your card down (I would never do this but you know). Thanks for this episode ❤

[@tiasennie9772]

I second this.

[@Mamabear8654]

Yes!! When I was a waitress I had a customer tell me I'd look better if I lost weight. I said that hurt my feelings a little and he proceeded to call me a dumb bitch and stomp out of the restaurant.😂 I have STORIES

[@njc1304]

@@Mamabear8654 dang girly, that's awful. That must've been a pretty miserable person to project such vile.

[@KayJoyy]

I second this!!!

[@its_not_bianca_jadee]

oh my god this PLEASE i have soooo many stories i could write in to this

[@marissanicole5658]

Story #1: She assaulted him. Sexually assaulted him, he told her to get off, she heard him say it, and she did not listen. Could it accidentally happen in a different setting. Sure, but this was not an accident it was intentional. OP should go to him and tell him what her sister did. Then, let them decide how to go forward. I wouldn't tell the parents unless it turns into a situation where the sister is talking bad about him (if he leaves or fights for custody). Then, tell the parents because the sister needs to be held accountable for her actions.

[@hhill_03]

Story 1: I’m SHOCKED they didn’t recognize it as SA right away, them making jokes about “bridgeton” left a bad taste. They downplayed this so much, if it was a dude in the position they would’ve ripped him a new arse.

[@cupofcozy708]

I commented exactly this on the original post, and got downvotex

[@mariahcarryingyou]

Yea… their reactions were much milder than I expected. You just know Morgan would’ve been very triggered if the guy was the one baby-trapping. Poor guy was clearly SA-ed.

[@csny2899]

This is why I don't watch Bridgerton and avoid people who love the show. The show down plays the SA and give people the idea that men just don't know they don't want kids so you have to push them into it and then they'll be happy.

[@n9na_marie]

Like I’m kinda mind boggled at their reactions to that story.

[@Lel472]

Story 1: As a survivor I immediately knew it was rape, male survivors are valid. Morgan was very muddy when talking about consent and her doing the whole “devil’s advocate” just made it worse. Justin was just…disappointing. I understand the mindset he’s coming from as that’s OP’s sister and he put himself into that position that has huge blinders and you want to justify however, there is no justification to that. The guy may never have consented if he knew her intentions and that is rape.

[@moon_sun1964]

For story 1 the sister is absolutely vile and disgusting and I know someone already made the comment on Reddit but if a guy did this to a woman I don’t think you guys would’ve tried to defend him. he need to know, I would definitely want to know if a guy i was sleeping with pretended to not hear me when I said STOP to trap me into being with him that’s absolutely disgusting and I know you guys said he was irresponsible for not using a condom but it’s not like he got her pregnant by accident she went out of her way to get pregnant and I’m no professional but I’m pretty sure that’s assault And last if she’s willing to go that far to keep him what else is she willing to do?? Because what she did is extremely bad it wasn’t just a mistake it was a long thoughtful decision and she herself knows it’s bad that’s why she felt the need to tell op about it. This wasn’t just a hot take this is was a genuinely horrible take and I’m saying this as big fans of you guys I’m subscribed to your channel and Patreon so I’m not just hater number 5 saying this

[@jynniepig8343]

Yeah I was really struggling to get past the consent issues with the first story. He clearly asked her to get off and she ignored him, that is assault and it’s disgusting. Whether or not either of them was being irresponsible isn’t really the issue here.

[@moon_sun1964]

@@jynniepig8343yeah and I know Morgan made a Bridgerton reference but like what Daphne did in the show was 100% assault when someone says stop you stop it doesn’t matter what’s the reason. that’s basic consent

[@Dogmilk235]

He withdrew consent within that moment and she proceeded to then engage is SA. It’s absolutely vile and there are no excuses for her behavior. What a scary women wtf

[@Rockinashy]

Also didn’t OP say that he wasn’t in the mood to have sex anyway but did it just to appease her? That is yiiiiikesss…

[@expzombie]

@@fromsamithis is like the second time they give the benefit of the doubt just because it’s a woman/dismissed it. the other was this girl cheated on her boyfriend and they thought he was being dramatic and controlling. yikes

[@marip7702]

I actually had to skip over them giving their takes on the first story. They were so casual about it,that’s WILD. THT tends to miss the mark with a lot of stories and make the situations much lighter than they are. I first started noticing the lack of empathy when they’d describe stories of people in bad situations and say something along the lines of just leave. It’s not that easy, even when you know full well you should sometimes you can’t wrap your head around it or finances get in the way. Sorry for the tangent and I couldn’t fully articulate what I’m thinking but I’ve been noticing the lack of empathy with some of these takes.

[@Sweetpeachyfrog]

The first story is assault and that guy deserves to know. He didn’t even want to have sex that night and she convinced him to do it. And she convinced him to not use protection when they usually do. Then she manipulated and lied about what she was going to do. She coerced him. And that is rape. It is still assault even in a relationship. And it sounds like they were going to end up together anyways so there is no reason for her to even think to do this. He should know, honestly I’d tell my sister how fucked up that is and tell her if she isn’t going to tell him I am. I know if roles were reversed people would have been much quicker to thinking assault, but just because he’s a mad doesn’t mean it’s not assault now, I feel so bad for him

[@Weachee]

The first story is actually disgusting and the fact that they are placating her R-ing someone. Saying that it’s his fault is actually disgusting. The sister did it in purpose 🤮🤮🤮

[@salinabydonie]

Two things: 1. For the first story, I'm surprised you didn't immediately call out the SA. What she did was rape. It doesn't matter if he's bigger or stronger and can "tip" her off. She violated his consent and baby trapped him, either of which is awful, but both at the same time is the f*cking worst. 2. NTAH, Morgan. They had the opportunity when your mom reached out. $5, $20, it's not much, but it helps. Every bit helps especially with multiple people contributing. Personally, I love the idea of pooling money to get someone a nice gift that they can use and enjoy. I teared up hearing about you talk about your grandma. I lost my grandma in 2019. She was my favorite person too, and now as a "real" adult, you can bet your ass that I would do my best to help her and spoil her if she was still around. F*ck your family fr! Your grandma's safety and comfort should be more important than being embarrassed that their sh*tty little impersonal gift got upstaged or they didn't get her anything at all. I'm sure she just loves spending time with her family and would rather have that than any gift, and they couldn't even do that. Pathetic! (Had to use * because my comment got flagged. 🙄)

[@van2165]

I am really shocked at take for the first story. That is cut and dry assault. He deserves to know he was SA'd. The gender doesn't change the abuse.

[@diannaruby9999]

For Justin’s Hot Take: We didn’t want to forget our “dating” anniversary either so we got married two days before and now we just have an anniversary weekend celebrating both events

[@ESPHMacD]

Genius!

[@juliannaevierivera]

we got married on our dating anniversary! easy peasy lol

[@mablepugh4459]

i did the same thing! it gives us an excuse to take a longer trip

[@Ciela531]

Same here! Literally 2 days before our dating anniversary (just 4 years later) 🥰 makes anniversaries extra special 💕

[@abigailsandoval2632]

Literally got married on our dating anniversary

[@Vibe.907]

The fact that in story 1 the genders had to get reversed just for Morgan to actually outright say “that’s grape” is actually so concerning

[@moon_sun1964]

Exactly also Justin saying “if he didn’t want it he could’ve done something” is wild

[@Vibe.907]

@@moon_sun1964 people just really don’t care about shit that happens to men. Seemingly other men too apparently

[@froggypuddles3]

And playing devil's advocate for a grapist was wild....

[@Vibe.907]

@@froggypuddles3 for real no matter what the gender playing devils advocate was not the move on that story at all💀

[@stephjovi]

What good is it got him to tell him the truth? It safes him from marrying a liar who doesn't care for his wishes or consent. Having a baby should be discussed lying, convincing him to have unprotected sex. Just wrong

[@bay1841]

100% it sucks now because that poor child is made from lies and deceit.

[@Mcktiny]

I also don’t believe she should even be a mother tbh. Being able to do that to some you “care” about is insane… she wanted to lock him in like a possession… this makes me so uncomfy thinks about her having a child

[@Rachel-j8e]

Genuinely think it's vile how the first story was downplayed by Morgan and Justin. This isn't the first time something like this has occurred; the cognitive dissonance when the genders are reversed is insane. And it is barely ever addressed properly in the next video or in an edit somewhere on the video in question. Plus Justin doing the whole "if he really didn't want that to happen then he could have gotten her off of him" is fucking insane. Really dropped the ball with this one and to then like a few comments re it being a crime and only have one reply (as the time of writing this) to a comment with "did you listen to the whole convo" and "Keep listening my friend we get there " is actually disappointing. Yes, many of us listened to the whole conversation and you just brush over the reddit comment regarding the lack of consent if it was a man pretending to not hear the request to pull out with a quick agreeance and that is it. Not expecting an essay on how it is SA but also how does playing devil's advocate add anything productive to a conversation regarding SEXUAL ASSAULT. "She's 24 and that prefrontal cortex hasn't developed, she did a dumb thing" - not a fucking excuse. "some might view this as sexual coercion ... " well done.

[@micahwilliams1332]

I can understand that perspective. Not saying this is your job, but how do you feel the double standards in regards to gender and how they might address these topics can improve in the future?

[@AestheticallyAndrogynous]

"Are you cleaning yet?!" I just started cleaning 30 seconds before you said that girl, you know us so well 😂

[@Smoshyprincess]

Me getting ready to get cleaning, sitting in bed drinking my coffee, hearing that got my ass up and going laughing my ass off 😂😂😂

[@ioana-nicoletagaurean8192]

I should do the dishes 😢 particularly if Morgan says so...

[@ohsobridgey]

Doing laundry about to do dishes lol!

[@meghanhenderson8417]

As soon as I clicked the video I put in my ear pods and grabbed my vacuum 🤣🤣 Morgan also convinced me to do a second load of laundry

[@maritalace2038]

Omg I always clean when I listen this podcast xD

[@river6032]

Did you miss in story 1 where the sister intentionally stopped taking birth control and hid it from him, or are you just blaming him for not wearing a condom because he's a man? Like why is "shouldve worn a condom" the thing being focused on, and not the fact that he DID NOT CONSENT through most of the encounter!! He had initially told her no, and eventually caved basically to get her off his back, and then revoked consent and asked her to stop and get off and she refused! That's literally SA and i feel that if roles were reversed you would've had a completely different outlook, and you would've dropped the devil's advocate thing and taken it seriously.

[@N3k0manc3rT0r1]

The first one is assault. That's coercive and forcing something that someone otherwise would have been against aka SA. Its not a "not your relationship" issue it a moral issue. If my sister did this i would push her to confess or ill do it for her. Youre family you push your family to be better. If she refuses to see sense or cut your relationship... honestly good. She sounds horrible just from these actions.

[@oakcanary4040]

We seriously need to retire the phrase Devil's Advocate as an excuse for a shitty opinion

[@candiedolives5340]

Thank you! I think the devil's advocate POV is useless. There are other podcasts to listen to if we want to hear SA defended.

[@mandalaymonsanto7117]

I wouldn’t say that it should be retired. It should be used correctly, like how people are over/miss using the term narcissist. You can play devils advocate correctly when it actually applies to a situation where both sides have a point that is correct. It just doesn’t apply here because rape/sexual assault is rape/sexual assault. There’s no other side.

[@Apollo.paul15]

Is the first story not just striaght up SA? Like she knew he was uncomfortable with that and did it anyway and ignored him saying get off of him? Like is that not assault of some kind?

[@Apollo.paul15]

And to say "if he really didn't want it he could thrown her off" sounds very victim blame-y?

[@Apollo.paul15]

Yeah the whole "it's a mistake" , "if she comes clean they could work though it". Just feels off to me. She violated his consent to manipulate him into a relationship it's not cute

[@duqial]

The real messed up think is all birth control with all it's side effects being put on women's plates. Ngl but if a guy did it to a girl they would just blame her for not being 'safe', so yeah throwing she vs. he argument is just stupid. The whole situation is messed up and frankly I don't understand why sb would share that with their sibling hell even do such a thing. Tbh it sounded like they weren't using the most recommended birth control in the first place but who are we to judge. Her doing it on purpose is messed up and he definitely deserves to know that she did it on purpose.

[@Apollo.paul15]

@duqial The main issue is her willfully ignoring him saying no. The rest really doesn't matter to me. The excuses about why it's okay or "just a mistake" just rub me the wrong way personally. I feel like if it was reversed and a women was saying no and a man admitted to ignoring her on purpose so he could baby trap her? Everyone would call the guy an asshole.

[@mikaylamessina6446]

Okay I love you Morgan…. But you can’t devils advocate sexual assault. Coercion and not getting off when someone has told you to? That’s straight up rape. He deserves to know what kind of evil vile person he is about to marry. Also to answer Justin question “is it her place to say that” Yes… it is. If her sister knows that man was raped it is absolutely her place to let him know. Let’s put it this way, if a man raped a women and that man went a bragged to his friends saying “yea I did this to this girl, she doesn’t even know” would you expect someone to do something to protect her?

[@raelynnabraham6643]

In the first story, it was said that the sister PURPOSEFULLY stopped taking birth control. I take birth control and my bf and I still pull out. Yes, BC can help prevent pregnancy however it isn't 100%. What happened to him was SA, he ceased to consent to having sex and she violated that. Anyways, glad to have another episode

[@rebecadiazpereira9162]

I really don't understand why they didn't immediately think of SA in story 1. I also am a little surprised Morgan didn't find the "dark side" with passport bros. As someone from a Latin American country where Americans often come to find "traditional wives", this is disgusting, they fetishize and use women to fit their "traditional" expectations, meaning they want someone who does everything for them and tends to all their needs without protest. I understand having certain views and wanting a certain kind of relationship, but It's honestly sickening they treat all our countries as a catalog and do not care about meeting someone and actually finding love, but just finding a maid they can f*ck.

[@IlkaWaffy]

with the passport bros there is also the power dynamic to consider because a lot of them seek out women from what are usually considered 'poor/poorer' countries. that way they can be on this pedestal of being 'the rich American' etc. soooo many weird and predatory implications

[@AcaMaca1984]

@@IlkaWaffyyea the rich American that 99% of the time still wants his wife to go half on bills and the women don’t know that until after they’re married. They want traditional as long as it suits them.

[@njc1304]

On the first story, burdening someone else with a secret in order for them to not have to carry the weight of their actions is extremely selfish. I openly vow that if someone becomes free of their burden by putting unto me I have the divine right to do with that info as I deem correct. I'm not about to torture myself over no one.

[@KamalianCiranoush]

Story 1: you can't play devil's advocate with this one. What she did was deliberate, it wasn't just an "oopsie I got carried away!" moment. She had it planned all the way, took advantage of him in his tired state, then pretended she did not hear him when he asked her to get off of him. She knows what she did is wrong, which is why she told her sister. She needed to alleviate her guilty conscience, but she couldn't go to the person that she actually harmed else it would implode everything, instead she went to the person who she knew couldn't say anything about it. Honestly, she's a terrible person for coercing her partner and for roping her sister into it, even just by confessing it to her. She made the sister an accomplice, and now the sister too has to struggle with a guilty conscience because whether she tells or not - either way she's fucked. OP should definitely say something about it, because if her sister is capable of doing something like this, then who knows what else she's capable of doing? If the genders were reversed, you guys wouldn't excuse this actions, instead would treat it as the vile act that it is. This is coercive and is not made any less than by him not using protection, because he was not actively trying to impregnate her, whereas she was actively plotting to get pregnant. I'm disappointed than only when it got to the role reversal point in the conversation that you guys admitted how wrong this is, because why the need to imagine this happening to a woman to be able to see how terrible it is?

[@froggypuddles3]

The fact that she had to reverse the roles to see that it is sa was very disappointing😕....

[@Axiomatic963]

First story: baby trapping anyone is not okey. Not fair to that guy or the child. It’s betrayal and really sick. A crime occurred, a premeditated one at that. Why would you want someone that doesn’t want you, let alone a force them to be a parent with you. She should seriously seek help, as that is unwell behavior and thinking. As his “ best friend” she manipulated him using personal information ( that he will marry someone if he gets them pregnant) to manipulate him for her selfish desire to HAVE him- not even to have the baby, it’s very icky the more you think of it. I wonder if she also manipulated him into sex. Just all very unhealthy, especially for a baby to be brought into. I couldn’t trust anyone as a partner let alone as a parent of my child if this is how they operate. Very scary. I’d blame him for no condom, but I get the feeling he trusted his bestie and she used that against him. It’s really dark.

[@NoNameTheFirst]

This probably won't be read, but if it does, I just wanted to advocate for the folks here who have strong feelings about the the first story and contextualize why there was such an overwhelming reaction. I have been a long time lurker who occasionally comments. I do very much enjoy hearing reddit stories and a diverse set of takes on them and for the most part enjoy hearing y'all's hot takes. I really like Alejandra. Her concerted effort to see both sides of the story, even to a fault, has been noted. Anyway, about a year and a half ago you had what I and many others would say was the best guest on your show -- My Mom's a Therapist. She was incredibly insightful and able to communicate concepts in psychology to us layfolk. She was also particularly understanding. While she did not excuse the assailants in the stories, she was able to see how they arrived at doing what they did. 12/10 guests, I beg that you have her on again! Now a few episodes later, you had Victoria Paris. I won't go into detail, but she was very much unlike My Mom's a Therapist. There was the infamous spaghetti story which I'll discuss later, but she repeatedly made snide remarks about men. The proximity of her own appearance to My Mom's a Therapist, I believe, compounded the backlash you all received from that episode. I just want to take a break here, and let y'all know that I know you guys are doing all you can to put on great episodes for us, and I really truly do appreciate the hours of prepping and filming and producing you do every single week. I know criticism can suck to read/hear especially when it floods in like this. I just want you to know that there are thousands of people who love the content that you make! Victoria made remarks that included expressing joy over dating women after having a bad experience with her most recent male partner, repeatedly mentioning that men suck and that she couldn't respect a cisgender man who willingly chose to be a model in an industry where he will be paid less than women. While I don't catch every episode, I do remember listening to this one when it came out, and while at the time it was semi-normal to take jabs at men, I did not expect to hear it on this podcast. (Victoria Paris Full Episode: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j3qnpJ6Xip2lqJI) Shortly before My Mom's a Therapist, you had on Olivia O'Brien, who while not nearly as divisive as Victoria, did have a dismissive take over neurodivergent boyfriend who was hoarding yoghurt in their apartment. She also flippantly made remarks about men: "I don't trust men. I can't ever trust men". (Olivia O'Brien Full Episode: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iITFpIyYaZWGlac) So, what am I getting at here? Halfway through 2022, you had on a phenomenal, empathetic guest who was preceded and succeeded by guests who were not so understanding and made man-disliking comments. I believe because of the difference in "guest quality" people became more critical. This part is going to be a bit shaky, but if people have examples that bolster or rebut my perception, please comment. The feeling that some folks have is that the show is biased against men by how some guests choose to speak about men and sometimes by how male victims are spoken about compared to female victims. These are two stories that I recalled off the top of my head, but if I remember some others, I will add them. I just want to discuss your reactions to them. While this should be obvious, I will explicitly say, I am not comparing these two stories or the victims in these stories. It is not healthy to compare victimization and trauma, and both deserve all the empathy and love they need. I am only comparing the reactions to the stories. TW: SA - Husband taking pictures of me in sleep.. (kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y5y5hKuNeZt9sMk) While Morgan was reading the reddit post, you can see Lauren show visual disgust at the husband. Lauren's first reaction after Morgan finished was that she was repulsed and this was undeniably assault/abuse. Morgan showed similar disgust and even shock as she did not realize the extent of the vulgarity of the husband's behavior when she just read the title. All of these reactions are perfectly normal and I think most of us were disturbed and distraught. They unequivocally showed care for the OP and aversion to the husband. I stalked my husband for 2 years before I formally met him.. (kzbin.info/www/bejne/eHipqIiEn9ygn80) This was a long story, so I won't discuss their reaction in full, but some highlights were: - Morgan advised OP not reveal her stalking to her husband if she wants to maintain the relationship calling OP's behavior deranged. - Lauren tries to make sense out of the situation by saying it was initially ok/normal for a 14 year old, but it progressed and doesn't know how to describe what it has become now. - Lauren acknowledges that if the genders and/or ages were reversed this would be a jail situation - Morgan questions if the OP's husband had feelings for OP when he was giving her rides home from practice when she was in high school. - Morgan also says that if the roles were reversed the guy would be the "creepiest motherf*cker" and should go to jail. - Lauren considers 2 cases where a) OP is just a dangerous manipulative stalker. b) OP orchestrated events when she was younger, but then things fell into place after she became an adult. - They discuss whether OP confessing her actions to her husband is for remorse for her actions or to release her guilt. - They question whether the situation is Invisible String Theory and compare it to a Katherine Heigel 27 Dresses There were some more reactions after the update, but I think the reactions listed illustrate the overall point. Obviously these situations are very, very different. But the energy you all give off from the first story was way different from this second story, and I believe that is emblematic of how some perceive your reaction to male victims vs female victims. I probably could've chosen better examples here, and if anyone has any, please let me know. This was crazy long, so thank you so much for bearing with me. This take could be 100% right, 100% wrong or somewhere in the middle, but I hope it helps to make sense of things for you guys and the people listening. Still, really like the show! Forgot this. I wanted to link the absolute banger that was the My Mother's A Therapist Episode: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hZetpXSGaNCWr8U

[@electricalsoket]

first story is a crime, literally SA

[@delaneykoeberl4084]

Morgan, you are NOT the a**hole! You did a kind thing for your grandmother with the purest of intentions. Additionally, as you thank us for listening to your podcast, I would like to thank you for creating it. I stumbled upon you a little over a year ago, & you have changed my life for the better. The discussions you have on this show can be hard topics to cover at times, but you bring many things to light that may not have been seen before. In doing so, you have reminded me countless times of my worth at a time that I really needed a pick me up & wasn't able to get it anywhere else. Thank you for being your true authentic self & using this platform to help every single individual that you encounter. As a Wisconsin girlie, I relate to you on so many levels & I look forward to more wonderful content in the future! All the love to the THT & FKS gang, can't afford to see you on this tour, but fingers crossed for next time! 🤞❤

[@pickleb0nes]

I’m sorry guys but your conversation on the first story came across as victim blaming. Yes, I did listen to your whole take on it and I still feel this way despite you “getting there” at the end. It was disgusting and clearly assault from the beginning. There was no realistic reason to play devils advocate for a horrible woman like that. Maybe that’s just my hot take though.

[@charlibean_]

the comments saying "did you listen to the whole take" are killing me because it was 10 minutes of victim blaming and then 2 minutes of yeah maybe it's not his fault. like...

[@Cosmiccrying]

Did they get there though? They said it’s LIKE SA they didn’t acknowledge it’s at all. And that’s after Justin’s whole “Well he could have pushed her off” what a vile and invalidating statement to any survivor

[@adrienneneal4645]

i’m sorry but saying “they’re just meant to be!” after she literally baby trapped him into marriage is crazy. and then to essentially victim blame by saying “as a man you know whats happening, just move her off!” and we know damn well if this was reversed and a man poked a hole in a condom so a girl hes been in love with would marry him, yall would be saying something COMPLETELY different. and you HAVE, because there are many examples throughout the 2 years of videos. its just disappointing, especially considering how much morgan usually advocates AGAINST baby trapping! i still love yall and this show, but do better. its fine to play devils advocate but this was the wrong story to start with. glad to see the comment acknowledging this but hopefully it gets addressed next week in an actual video since not everyone reads the comments.

[@tendercrocketts]

Story 3: As a new mom of a toddler, I understand why the mom wants to be there (a case of FOMO for sure), but she’s missing out on the opportunity for her child to come running home and tell her all about his wonderful day. It’s a great way of gaining confidence and communication skills.

[@JW-vd4il]

I was just looking for ANY comment on that one... but I like your attitude! I'm an older auntie now but grew up with much younger cousins so even tho I'm child-free I grew up in the kind of family & communities where as soon as you can sit up on your own someone's putting a baby in your lap. 😂 And I do like and enjoy kids. I agreed with the commenter who advised making a plan with some deadlines. I wouldn't feel comfortable to lie in that situation but eventually I'd also give the 💩 or get off the pot warning! 😂 I'd start nicer than that,tho! 😊 I think kids are fun and interesting. Like you said, a little kid just telling you about their day is another kind of special thing! And hey if you have kids you know that no matter what you plan, something else will often happen anyway! Enjoy! ❤

[@eliability]

It's kinda insanely bonkers that he's being blamed for not putting on a condom when he literally wasn't even engaging. He was forced. And the fact that they entirely ignored that, and didn't sound apologetic or anything, they basically just... "Well, when you put it that way..." that rubs me so the wrong way. I already can't listen to episodes with Justin in them since he seems to be all for invalidating people. The only reason I wasn't annoyed with Morgan in episodes I listened to he was in, like the 100th episode with Jerry and Justin, I thought it was because they just invalidate what she said and they talked over her anyway. And then she plays "devil's advocate" on someone else's TRAUMA right alongside Justin. Jesus Christ. Do better. And PLEASE ACTUALLY ADDRESS this stuff. Hope someone talks about this because wtf. Their acknowledgement wasn't even an actual acknowledgement because they didn't take back a damn thing they said or even seem to have an "oh this really wasn't okay" moment until after getting backlash. "He could've just pushed her her off." Nice job, Justin! You gave an extremely invalidating take that blames the victim! Hooray for adding onto general stigmatization and basically reinforcing the "men can't be ab*sed" ideas! And I'm willing to bet that if the friend was gonna marry anyone "he got pregnant" (in quotes because that literally was not his fault) and was against abortion, there's a chance he came from an environment that doesn't acknowledge the fact that men CAN be ab-sed. But go off I guess.

[@Milybedily]

New episode idea “you said that in public!?” A whole episode of Karens and general crazy people out in the wild

[@deonaaustin3539]

The story about Morgan's grandma got me really emotional. I recently lost my granny September 29th of 2023 due to complications during a procedure she was having. She was 72. I would've loved to be able to bless my granny the way morgan did for her grandma. And anyone who had something negative to say would've been cussed out. Shout out to Morgan for being an awesome granddaughter.

[@sillyaurora]

Story number one is absolutely stealthing, which is SA.

[@alicedeathbelle]

In story #5, why is no one concerned about the wife’s sexual needs? Everyone is so focused on the husband that the wife’s needs aren’t mentioned even once. Sex and/or org*sms are also important to your overall health and well-being. I truly hope he’s still trying to fulfil her needs as well. Sexual pleasure and org*sm can be derived from many areas on the body, it’s not exclusively derived from the genitals. This might shock some people but it is possible to org*sm without penetration. Crazy concept, I know.

[@virameherkar3854]

I was going through the comments just to see this . That’s so imp . If hubby can’t have wife is also not getting anything. I don’t know if they tried having other ways of physical affection. Infact after knowing about husband , wife will also be so guilty on herself and it may take longer to heal her . I don’t see woman doing same if she is the one taking care of and man is bedridden. (Only in a case were conditions is recoverable)

[@ems3991]

Sex is not a need. Stop treating people as objects.

[@ASHANATORno2]

@@ems3991agreed the fact that he made the comment about getting himself off in the shower not being enough speaks volumes to me.

[@dimsum5727]

To the First Story: the sister says that they already wanted to get married, then why did she want to babytrap him? Something is not adding up

[@stephjovi]

Exactly. Either sister is lying or the story isn't real. Baby trapping is just wrong

[@cupofcozy708]

Since she's evil enough to baby trap him, I'll make a bet once they're married she'll divorce him so she can get alimony and child support. She'll be set for life

[@AutumnOddity]

With y'all's takes on the first story, you're making me wish I didn't buy a ticket to see your live show. I'm legitimately hurt and SO put off by your responses to it. Especially you, Justin - "just tip her off of you" "it was a terrible mistake" NO. WHERE is your respect for male victims?! Tell me you've never talked to someone who's been SA'd without telling me...

[@IlkaWaffy]

With pull out theres always a chance of pregnancy which he should have known BUT thats not the issue here. She assaulted him and violated his consent - she did it purposefully. Point blank.

[@infinitismal]

Glad to see most people focused on the fact that S1 was absolutely assault and that they missed the mark. Starting outright with playing devil's advocate and *then* much later, after letting Justin go off about how the guy should have made his own efforts and that it's not OP's business, getting around to saying it's *like* SA was absolutely not the move. I often feel like Morgan's takes go sideways whenever Justin is on :/

[@carmillaguzzo6191]

this!! nice to know I'm not crazy, I literally can't watch any episodes with him in it because the nonsense opinions make me mad

[@ase444]

Glad I’m not the only who notices. It’s totally true.

[@TheAlipop13]

Morgan your holiday story has me SHOCKED!!!!! I’m so sorry your family would act like that towards you AND your grandma …. like Justin said it just screams insecurity but that shouldn’t be at your/your grandmas detriment. I just really hope you know you and your mom and Taylor did nothing wrong

[@trinitybernhardt9944]

The first story is assault. The takes of what does it get you and you can get through it if upfront make me feel a bit sick. It shows how messed up we still are for assault in relationships. We still accept it freely. He may choose to stay, but he 100% deserves to make that choice himself. She stole his ability to choose in the act. He deserves his choice now.

[@taeminislove]

"What's that gonna get her" It's not abt what its gonna get HER. It's HIS RIGHT to know the TRUTH. It's gonna negatively affect him, for sure but at least he's not living a lie. "He's happy to get married" Yeah, under the assumption that his soon to be wife was a decent person but she's not. Like, seriously. Please have more empathy for male victims- the same way you have SO MUCH for women. Like, I've seen you even have empathy for women who go too far just bc of their shitty/pitiful background. People in the comments are not just being haters/negative. There HAS been a pattern in videos wherein male victims end up being victim blamed/downplayed/even villainized (iirc there was a story abt a guy who lived w friends and a girl friend would just open his door unannounced and he talked to her abt it, asked her to stop bc he normally sleeps naked and is uncomfy abt her opening and closing his door whenever she wanted to but she didn't. So in retaliation he decided to just sleep naked without any covers just to get her to stop. Iirc he was villainized there and it was insinuated that he somehow "wanted" her to see him naked) It'd be nice if you could genuinely reflect on it instead of passive-aggressively responding to comments saying "Did you watch the video?", "Huh, okay then good to know", etc.

[@brooklinmincone1929]

First story; if they were MARRIED and he didnt consent to finishing the way she forced its literally still rape. Its not just "sketchy", shes evil. The nonchalance of yall is gross, there was NEVER enough fire behind either of you when discussing rape

[@brooklinmincone1929]

And yes. I listened to the whole story.

[@OllieGalagar]

It is kinda scary how fair these people go to defend women doing horrible things to men. Story 1 is rape, it doesnt matter if it was two guy's, two gals, or in this case gal and guy. Its rape and the fact you two tried to defend it is horrifying, ive been sexual harassed before and a lot of people in my irl tried to down play it, saying " Oh thats how girls flirt " or " Your a guy its not that big of a deal. " Its disgusting and abhorrent.

[@r0ckmom]

@@alistairrae9807agree

[@favlilbrowngirl]

this is so sad, i love your podcast so much and did listen to the full take. but that was full on rape. there shouldn’t be any justification or even “devils advocate” to defend someone like that. if the roles were reversed, there would be no justification or even trying to get her side about anything. i’m not hating and the whole point of this is “hot takes” so i completely get that not everyone would agree on what you’re saying but I just want to say that i think you should be a bit more sensitive to the facts of the story. This isn’t hateful at all, you have your opinion. Some people just want to make you see a different perspective on it and hopefully you can see it and just see where everyone’s coming from, you know! Love your podcast and i hope you take this into consideration.

[@piccolafleur]

story #3 reminded me of a tiktok i just saw of a girl sharing her grandma’s diary to her granddaughter where she saw how her grandma wrote that she was actually the first person to see her walk (she took 6 steps while grandma was babysitting) yet never told anyone so parents wouldn’t feel they missed it. shortly after baby went back home parents called grandma all excited letting her know baby took her first steps, which she just pretended to be shocked and celebrated along them. so kind.

[@fearfulmitten9367]

Oof. Love you guys but your opinion on the first story is wack.. 😬 That’s SA for sure. Is it hard for you to comprehend bc it’s from a guys perspective and not a woman’s?

[@juliannap6878]

I’m disgusted from the first story.

[@LittleBandit31]

Morgan, I really feel for you and your story. My family also acted this way towards anyone that did nice things for my grandma too. It truly does hurt when you do something for someone in need and it's met with such negativity. It really shows that if they did help you buy that car, it would have been for the wrong reasons. They would have held that over her too. Grandmas are the best ❤

[@ESPHMacD]

Story 1 has me feeling some type of way. Type rant below... tl:dr, I don't approve, not even a tiny bit, for me it's a "you tell him or I do", the whole abortion aspect doesn't matter so much to the problem, as she seemingly wants the child anyway (enough to lie to him and get pregnant on purpose anyway). He deserves to know his partner lied to him about such a significant thing. He deserves to know the truth so he can make an informed decision about his relationship with the sister. I feel like with story one, if telling him wouldn't change anything then why not tell him. OPs sister gives me such shady vibes, I can't even. They just "spontaneously" had sex, after two months of dating they were already talking marriage, she purposely avoided/lied about a BC that was her responsibility to trick him into getting her pregnant (he should have worn a condom or stood his ground, but that's on trusting your partner/best friend not to lie to you I guess). The whole fact that she did it behind his back like that so it seemed like an accident means she knows that he wouldn't have jumped at that right now, and that's super wrong of someone you are supposed to love. To be treating your BEST FRIEND of so many years like that.....? To "pretend" to not hear him (which borders on reproductive coercion since it was on purpose on her part, but I guess it's debatable /s. imho it's not) idk man, couldn't be me. This is a you tell him or I do type thing for me. Imagine being married to someone for so many years, someone who you thought was your best friend since basically birth, and they had lied to you about such a significant thing. For that one time you swore you would take precautions, you talked me into sex, and lied just so you could get pregnant to pressure me into marrying you after barely two months.... Finding that out down the road after wasting so much time on someone who began your relationship on such dishonesty... He deserves to have the option to choose if he wants to stay in a relationship with her knowing she deceived him, just as knowing a woman's bf had 'stealthed' without her realizing and telling her so she knows. He might choose to stay, but he can't make an informed decision with this big truth hanging over everyone. TELL HIM or get her to do so post haste!

[@katecooper9158]

The phrase 'what does it really get you? Nothing, except hurt people' - could be used to excuse any bad behaviour like cheating, for example. Just because people are going to get hurt, doesn't make it right to omit the truth.

[@mommy2rae586]

Story 1: she r@ped him. He expressed that he was exhausted and didnt want too, then when he asked her to get off, she didn't. That is DISGUSTING. I honestly hope he presses charges! If a man did this there would be no doubt that he would be considered a pr3dator/r@pist as he should be.

[@courtneyjadesmith10]

“Drive safe everyone” thank you! Amazon delivery driver from Michigan and your podcast gets me through every Thursday so I appreciate that so much!! 💖💖💖

[@xzizy]

I'm usually a lurker, but the first story. I can not agree with you Morgan. Let's say, there was a man who wanted to marry a lady, and they're in sexual relations, so he pokes a hole in the condom a few times to have a baby with the woman. That's so wrong. What the lady did is exactly the same as this. If they've discussed marriage before, why did the woman feel a need to have a baby right that moment? Why did they not discuss the timeline? There's a control thing going on. Especially when she forced the sex too.

[@moth5379]

Someone else said it: story one is a form of stealthing. Which is a form of SA. Also thats full blown coercion. I love yall, but you need to address this more than you did so personally i cannot finish the episode as someone who has experienced both.

[@moth5379]

Like Morgan, I am BEGGING you to do research.

[@angelalurtz3638]

And even worse than stealthing, it became full on rape the second she pretended not to hear him say "get off". The fact that they missed the mark so hard on this one blew my mind.

[@jannahnicholson9844]

"You tell him or I'm going no contact with you both and the baby. You've put me in an impossible situation and I will not be involved with you moving forward unless you come clean." There's no need to insert yourself when you can set a boundary and send a clear message all in one. Anytime mom and dad or baby daddy ask why you're no contact simply tell them that sister knows why.

[@FruitBasketyay]

It's interesting that it takes someone spelling out that the first story is rape before our hosts realize just by hearing the story.

[@dqndicore]

Guys I understand it wasn’t your intention but you really invalidated male SA victims in the first one. A crime was committed against him and his consent was violated. He deserves to be told that he was r*ped. No, he could not have just “pushed her off” for multiple reasons. A) her size didn’t allow for that. B) he just wasn’t physically strong enough- which is okay. Or C) He could have frozen in place when he realized what was happening, which is something that happens a lot in these situations. Sometimes people just freeze due to fear/anxiety. Its just really upsetting to hear the “why didn’t you just push her” approach to male SA.

[@fatmexicannicolerichie3511]

Yes, the first story was a rape. ALSO most people have a distorted view of consent. I dont blame Morgan or Justin for eventually coming to the assult conclusion, which they did in the video. A lot of people have been assulted or are rapists and dont believe they are becuase they have a skewed view of conset. I once had to tell a friend she was raped years later when she told me a "this one time i had sex..." story and i had to tell her that wasnt sex. It was rape. People dont know consent! Approaching anyone who doesnt get this with so much anger is so strange. We all have or had similar misconceptions in our heads at some point in our lives.

[@tiasennie9772]

I'm stopping my whole work day to type this. You are NOT the asshole for buying your grandmother a car, and your family SHOULD be ashamed and embarrassed for their behavior. They practically ruined your holidays and put a damper on your grandmother's wonderful gift, for what? What were they hoping the outcome would be by walking out? They didn't hurt you by doing that, they hurt your grandmother, and for that, they should be begging for your guys forgiveness. Unforgivable.

[@lizzaenid7921]

I'm disappointed the situation Morgan picked to be "the devils advocate" she took away his right to decide.

[@allisonmrozinski9578]

The first story happened to my friend but the genders were swapped. I’m sure if that’s what the story was then y’all wouldn’t have played “devil’s advocate.” It’s actually disgusting how y’all just glazed right over that story like that guy wasn’t actually assaulted.

[@sydney5635]

The first one is assault or at minimum corrosion as you have stated in previous stories when it was against a woman. No one would be “devils advocate” for a man who refused to pull out.

[@little_shirley]

First story-- i knew someone who had a girl do this to them. He loves his daughter but he knows he was trapped and there's no relationship between the parents except to care for the child.

[@kristinaerickson2353]

My fiance had his ex do something similar. Basically SA him in order to get pregnant/baby trap. It's traumatic. He was suicidal from it. Yes he loves his daughter but, he has to deal with his abuser to see her and of course pay her ridiculous amounts of child support (3x the normal monthly payment). The courts don't care that she SAd him to have the kid. They just give her custody. It's truly awful.

[@hcf4kd1992]

Knowing you're trapped makes all the difference.

[@ems3991]

He could have kept it in his pants.

[@emmahill2973]

I lost my grandma right after Christmas and she was my favorite person! Thanks for sharing Morgan I’m glad your family got to do something so big for her and that keeps her safe. I’m just sitting here crying again. Don’t let your family ruin something so special ❤

[@fuzzylittlespider]

I’m honestly surprised and disgusted by Morgan and Justin for not realizing that they didn’t call out the SA in story one. Guys can take away consent during sex and he told her “To get off!” His consent was taken from him.

[@kellyt676]

is the problem maybe that they just didn’t say it super flat out? She definitely did say it a bit more roundabout than they normally would, but they did touch on it! 15:11 17:25 seriously lemme know if I’m wrong haha I just didn’t get that vibe at all

[@fuzzylittlespider]

@@kellyt676 I know they didn’t mean anything by their hot takes. I know it was an oversight on their part but I can still feel shocked and disappointed because most the time Morgan is on point so it was upsetting.

[@kellyt676]

@@fuzzylittlespider 1000%!

[@alliebrowning8875]

@@kellyt676 For me it was that it took THAT long to acknowledge that it was r*pe, and all of the conversation leading up to it was so lighthearted and even rooting for the relationship. Then, in the comments Morgan (or whoever was using the channel) was being super defensive and snarky when people were hurt by the discussion

[@alliebrowning8875]

For me, a couple minutes at the end to recognize the SA doesn’t erase 15 minutes of light hearted jokes and playing devil’s advocate for a criminal. It broke my heart to hear their take on the whole situation, because it could’ve easily been refilmed to show proper respect to the victim

[@anayaxo9007]

i love THT, but man you guys are so anti-men. if it had been a woman that told a man to pull out and he intentionally did not, there is no world where Morgan wouldn’t call that r*pe and sexual assault. yall gotta stop being biased.

[@FrauStormm]

I know you guys are being flamed hard for the first story, but you admit to it being SA after reading the comments. I will admit it feels like yall didn’t take it very seriously, but I’m sure Morgan will address it in the next episode. Take this as a learning experience and take care of yourself 🩵

[@jimenasorich1506]

You guys I love the podcast, but the take on the first story made me nauseous. The dude was SA'd by the sister, he didn't consent to come inside her. You can't tell a victim of SA "you should've just throw them off" as if is that easy. You guys woudn't tell a woman to "just push him off" if she was telling you the same story, so disappointed

[@mermaidmaterial5735]

Heard the first take and just kept blinking😳😳😳 Wtf was that? “Getting there”??? It’s obviously sexual assault, what’s to get to? What does she get out of it???? Do girls also have to do something if they don’t want to get r*ped? What’s with all the victim blaming? Spent 7 minutes trying to justify an insane behaviour and a very malicious act. Read through the comments, Morgan’s reply are not it. EDIT: just read Morgan’s pinned comment, wow was that also horrible, where’s the accountability? Where’s the understanding? That post gave absolutely nothing of value or sincerity and was super weird. And they are almost 30, their prefrontal cortexes are fully formed, can’t use that excuse. Can rape be a blind spot?

[@TabbyWithMittens]

Doesn’t matter what was used- condoms, pull out, birth control- etc. Sure some are more effective then others but at the end of the day the partners talk what they want to use, then one of them VIOLATED that trust.

[@Bianca_baryonx]

The response to first story left a bad feeling in my gut :(

[@taypiper4534]

As an SA survivor- I’m with the comments here in regards to story 1 it’s DEFINITELY considered SA and regardless of gender should be taken more seriously and call out the sister!! SA comes in many forms- and lying about not hearing the friend say no demonstrates taking away the consent. My SA was also a form of coercion/lying and it seems like she’s lying in order to get the sexual gratification and to baby trap him :(

[@AMVactivists]

8:30 kinda victim blame here.... this was sexual assault

[@thedatabase677]

I've been watching and loving this show for a long time. I say this with love and care, please take a moment and listen to the survivors in the comments. I understand what the intent was with the first story, but the impact was horrible. Please take this to heart and do not ignore it.

[@Ciela531]

1:35:17 Ugh Justin please give Morgan a hug from all of us!!!!!!! 🥹 Love this podcast, so glad your grandma got that car!! Also Morgan obviously NTA with the Christmas story!! That was an absolutely beautiful and kind thing y’all did for your grandmother. The best gifts are those that come when you have a need but you don’t say anything about it, but then someone else who truly loves you sees that need and does something to help fix it 🩵 Such a sweet story, hate that your family ever made you feel bad Morgan. You’re an amazingly generous and kind person, and if you keep crying, then I’m gonna cry 🥹😅 so Justin please just give her a big hug from all of us and remind her how great she is!