When Orcs Unite? | The Alliance of Mordor, Isengard, and the Misty Mountains

[@lancebrowning4770]

I can't express how delighted i am that you have returned to us Rainbow Dave.

[@benmaguire1729]

I concur!!! I could listen to rainbow Dave wax whimsically about the legendarium all times of... Every of the times.... Times of always... ??? IDK, hopefully y'all can catch what I was throwing. Thanks Dave, love your content!!!!

[@SchumanD1]

3 cheers for…Rainbow Dave lol be gay or whatever but not that name 😂

[@ZeepDr]

Same!!!!

[@archmage_of_the_aether]

Dude never went anywhere yo Here he is

[@morgant.dulaman8733]

Sauron as a spirit: "Easterlings. I should have sent Easterlings."

[@ClaymoreLinx]

Funny you say that because one of the Winged Nazgul is likely Khamul, The Easterling.

[@IStealButterdToast]

I’m certain if the Uruk-Hai and the Moria Orcs saw Easterlings ( aka part of the race of men) their instinct would be to just kill them

[@morgant.dulaman8733]

@@IStealButterdToast In the books, the Uruk-Hai fought alongside men of Dunland at Helm's Deep. They also likely fought on the same side during the War of Wrath. They're a lot of bad things, but orcs aren't completely without the ability to cooperate.

[@IStealButterdToast]

@@morgant.dulaman8733 I was thinking if The Uruks saw Easterlings serving under Sauron they would kill them, I would assume if they saw Dunlenings under Saruman the Uruks would’ve just made them come along no problem at all

[@morgant.dulaman8733]

@@IStealButterdToast Fair enough.

[@Philusteen]

random orc: "I think we should unionize." Orc platoon leader: "looks like meat's back on the menu, boys!"

[@Odiseusthelegend]

Omfg😂

[@ilonapsiuk1078]

I love how clearly this vid shows that "the two towers" is in fact about the rivalry, not an union between the two Maiar. As always - great job Rainbow one 🙂

[@TimJohniLL]

We use “a” with nouns that start with a consonant sound. Sometimes, as in the case of “union”, a word begins with the vowel “u” in the spelling, but with a consonant in the pronunciation (you). Remember, when deciding whether to use “a” or “an”, it is the sound, not the spelling, which is important. Sry ocd and was curious so I googled it

[@jay3898]

@@TimJohniLL this, to me, seems an acceptable way to correct ESL persons’ grammar online.

[@josephsolowyk7697]

So punk rock of you.

[@samueljones5421]

How many times can I say it, this is the greatest tolkien channel out there, love these videos so much

[@Zenocrate]

The moments in the books where Tolkien grants us some orc-on-orc action are unreasonably funny, gruesome and darn entertaining - whether that be the kerfuffling between the Mordor orcs and Saruman's Uruk-Hai, or the 'internal office dispute' that erupts around the captured Frodo, or the two scouts that Sam or Frodo overhear discussing the war.

[@Raeinok]

Eventually an Orc rises to become a powerful warboss and they go on a WAAAGH. Tale as old as time.

[@learneroflore7963]

I get so excited when I see new content on your channel!! Pause, prep drink & snacks aaannndd buckle in for AWESOME TOLKIEN! Thank you for all you do here !!

[@Dr_Cole]

His releases are the only ones where I specifically make time to ensure I can experience the release uninterrupted and in comfort for what I am sure will be an epic tale and an epic storytelling.

[@Aure-entuluva]

Best channel on KZbin, Tolkien or otherwise, Dave yours is the best. Beside The Why Files, your channel is what I most look forward to on this platform. Be proud of your work because it has a profound impact on many. You are loved, your passion is loved, and your work is most loved.

[@strick405]

It's always a delight to hear about Tolkien's sidenotes alongside the tale. i never mentioned how I really appreciate the title of this channel - it's perfect. ♥

[@Dr_Cole]

There really is no part of your videos that is not utterly fantastic. Your knowledge of all things Tolkien is unparalleled. Your story crafting of these videos goes far beyond simply sharing Tolkien’s craft but makes me certain your book(s) will be truly fantastic, and your use of the video medium is virtuosic. I mean, the simplicity of using three different icons whenever you’re discussing one of the three bands of orcs as a means of aiding the viewer in keeping track of who you are discussing is a brilliant use of iconography. Thank you for bringing another sermon to your House of the Rainbow.

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thanks so much! I really appreciate that!

[@sezzymayers759]

⁠@@tolkienuntangledacceded

[@PleaseNThankYou]

A masterpiece of things that I didn't know. So glad to have you around rainbow Dave!

[@Zenocrate]

It gladdens even the coldest, most withered Norse(wo)man's heart to find a video from the indisputable best interpreter and untangler of Tolkien on KZbin! Thank you for all this brilliance - and for the occasional laugh: "...and go back to being awful in the dark."

[@louisebrouillette5580]

Thank you, Rainbow Dave, for this close look into the minds of orcs. Even after many readings (in over 50 years), I had not really thought that the orcs of Moria were part of the alliance. You always give us more to think about. Until next time!

[@chrischapman2879]

Many thanks. These are amazing ❤

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thank you! Greatly appreciated!

[@dylanvodden1369]

Rings of Power writers: pay attention here. All orcs are always inherently evil. There are no exceptions!

[@AMikeStein]

That pissed me off to no end… Fucking orcs trying to be a loving family man for his wife and kid??? What?!

[@RiccoDisfaktism]

I can tell you’ve been diligently reading “Tolkien Studies”, and especially the special issue focused on the Chronology ❤️ the amount of information we get there is simply exhilarating, and it actually lets us see a “story behind the story”. I’m sure you’ll use it for other videos too! Much love, mellon nîn, your content is top-notch as usual! The way in which you manage to let scholarship, artistry and storyelling skills coexist is simply unparallelled, and I wish we had someone like you in the Italian Tolkiendom!

[@antarfodoh]

I have this whole head canon about Orcs in the far east who rebelled, which I just cannot stop thinking about and expanding upon. The various notes and writings I've put together over the years could never be published before I die, but I like to think that some day they could become part of the expanded unfinished tales... One can dream, anyway.

[@EgoEroTergum]

Shaaaare.

[@antarfodoh]

@@EgoEroTergum Okay, fine. But only because if the 4th "a" in your request 😂 Here are some of my notes and timeline... Free Orcs of the East Names: - To Orcs: Fell Orcs - To Men: High Orcs - To Elves: Fair Orcs "Vanimorco" (Vanimo is Quenya for "fair) - After the fall of Doriath in year 509 of the First Age, Eluréd and Elurín are rescued by a small group of Avari called the Ymonyä (derived from "imin") from the East. Eluréd is gradually healed but Elurín succumbs to his wounds - The Ymonyä speak a derived and unique version of Quenya, residing near Cuiviénen - Eluréd settles with the Ymonyä, taking a wife, influencing their culture with his teachings from the west, teaching them Sindarin - Eluréd and Elurín were never found by their people and were presumed to have perished in the forest. - SA 1600 The Blue Wizards travel east to prepare the Free Peoples of Middle Earth for the coming Darkness, sowing rebellion and resistance - Free Orcs are "founded" in the 5th year of the Third Age, after the defeat of Sauron, by Orcs wanting to seize their freedom and realizing now was their chance, further encouraged by an encounter with the Blue Wizards - Formerly a far eastern stronghold of Mordor, defending the east during the battle of the Last Alliance, by TA 1,000 they had developed a stable free society based on honour and battle, resisting the wild forces of Mordor in the east - The early years were filled with savagery and infighting against those that feared rebellion against the Dark Lords, but the Free Orcs quickly establish a violent and brutal, yet fair and free society - Commanded by a Chieftan, the Free Orcs were devided into three major houses. Leadership (Chief) was generally hereditary, but could be earned (by challenge, great deeds, vote). The three major houses were descended from the Orc Captain and Lieutenants who led the rebellion in TA 5 - In TA 1980, Elmírion (granddaughter of Eluréd) and her cousin Elahír, along with their 12 fellow Ymonyä companions are attacked by wild Orcs, while patrolling the wilds of the east. Elmírion, Elahír, and their 6 surviving companions are chased further east by the assailing Orcs and are rescued by Chief Argrol and his Free Orc warriors - In TA 1983, Elmírion becomes the first and only Queen of the Free Orcs when she marries Chief Argrol, giving birth to four children, and ruling in his place long after his passing. Elmírion and the Elves enrich Free Orc society, sharing many of their ways and teachings, including the Ymonyä and Sindarin languages - By TA 2100, Eluréd married a surviving Ymonyä companion, while the two remaining Elves took an Orc husband and wife, respectively - Queen Elmírion is killed in 2379, during an attack by Orcs, and rule falls to her Grandson, (now)High Chief Elgrol of the House of Argrol, whose descendants rule for the next 7 centuries as High Chieftans, never again taking the title of King or Queen, in deference to Queen Elmírion - By TA 2800 The Free Orcs number approximately 6,000 (2 Elves, ~5,300 mixed ~700 Orcs), speaking a derived version of the black speech, heavily influenced by the Ymonyä and Sindarin languages - By TA 3021, their numbers have dwindled to

[@EgoEroTergum]

@antarfodoh Mmmmm. Yep. That's the good stuff. Creative, source respectful, developed timeline. I love it. Keep it up, and get like a World Anvil page or something for it. 👌

[@antarfodoh]

@@EgoEroTergum Oh wow, thank you so much! I tried to keep thinks tied to the source material, if only tangentially, since that's how Tolkien seemed to do things, while not contradicting anything from established lore. I hadn't heard of World Anvil before and just gave it a look though. I may have to look into it further! Thank you so very much for your kind words though!

[@vc1396]

​@@antarfodoh really well thought out, mate. Well done and keep going

[@shabzstarchintu1211]

So glad you are back!!!!!

[@Sparkalonius]

Loved this episode! I get so giddy when the story weaves around the travels of the fellowship. That world-building etiquette is why Tolkien is simply unmatched. As far as your videos, the ONLY thing I could dane to ask is, mentioned or noted, dates. I get lost in the timelines and maybe it’s my personal bane but, same as Hardcore History, I lose myself in the timeline. Anyway keep on brother! Loving these

[@pauldrexel1501]

Great podcast. Fantastic how you tie all of this together.

[@paulgalligan1916]

Was just wondering what I'd listen to before bed... then Boom 💥 Rainbow dave with the goods again right on time , Yes 🎉

[@chrischapman2879]

Bank holiday weekend and a new TU video. Thank you Rainbow Dave. These make my life better. X

[@EnygmaRecords]

Every one of your videos continues to offer incredible insight whilst also being be an absolute delight to watch! Thank you for all your hard work!

[@haleyschreiter9746]

Thank you for breaking all this down for us, RD!

[@drankin_barry6005]

Thank you kindly Dave!

[@hueytlatoani1177]

I'm waiting for my family so we can seat on the couch to watch the video. Thanks Dave.

[@Gorlim_the_Unhappy]

The King has Returned, in all his rainbow glory! Much love brotha!

[@Gtownislander]

I just have to tell you that you’re the reason I discovered Tolkien’s Legendiarium beyond LOTR. I saw your playlists and learned about the Silmarillion and was hooked. I’ve now read it multiple times and have a lifelong love (obsession really) with everything Tolkien. I can’t thank you enough!!

[@G36Sperrfeuer]

When Grischnakh gas to ally with Ugluk, Sauron allready know of Sarumans betrayl, because of the Witchkings talk with Saruman at the gate of Isengard and the capturing of Grima.

[@Jesserd95]

Dave, you have no idea how amazing it is how you take all sorts of different Tolkien sources and forge them into thorough and comprehensive accounts like these. For me, you are the true successor of Christopher Tolkien; newly editing J.R.R.'s works for the era of the internet, in a way that no one else comes close to.

[@pnut2552]

Rainbow Dave, your channel is my favorite!!! I love how passionate you tell the stories and how interesting you make them all seem, no matter if its a long tale or a short one!! Your hard work is appreciated! I look forward to every video my brotha!!

[@MrARock001]

Just wanted to shout out how much grief the orcs put Tolkien through: On the one hand, he wanted a villainous race to stand in for all the evils he saw in the world, complete with their own twisted and corrupted cultures and habits, but on the other hand, he wanted it to be morally justifiable for the heroes to slay them indiscriminately. Now, a more secular author might have shrugged at this and not lost a night's sleep, but apparently the idea, for Tolkien, that there could be an intrinsically evil sentient race, as his stories often demanded, presented an intractable paradox: how could Eru create such a people, irredeemably evil from birth? And if they weren't irredeemably evil, then how could the heroes be justified in slaughtering them without mercy? He twisted and flip-flopped on whether they truly had souls (Fëa) or whether they were just beasts who had learned to mimic sentience. But I find it fascinating that he basically wrote himself accidentally into confronting a theodicy: he had to explain why a good god would create a world with inherent evil. He wrestled with a problem in fiction that philosophers and theologians have been wrestling with for centuries.

[@michaelsmyth3935]

Melkor

[@christopherbaby3842]

Apologists gonna apologize. Even in a Catholic world without allegory the paradox rears its head. It would be fun for a secular author to look to nature for this quality. Explain weasels who break into a chicken run and kill every hen without taking a bite. Fisher cats are the worst. Allegedly, I don't live in New England. I'm sure someone's explored it I only really read the popular stuff. Anyways I don't think it's too much of a leap to find insidiousness in nature "red in tooth and claw". Humans are just such a new and overwhelmingly dominant apex creature that the idea of something like orcs only exists in our deep subconscious. Just rambling here, thank you for your wonderful comment.

[@Enerdhil]

I think the problem exists because Eru is not the God of the Bible. We have no proof that Hell exists. If Orcs come from Men, then they probably receive the Gift along with Men. If they come from Elves, they will just be stuck in the Halls of Mandos until the Dagor Dagorath. And after that war is over, who knows?

[@c.antoniojohnson7114]

The Orcs are part of Morgoth's ring, which is middle earth itself.

[@SunnyCida]

Seeing a new Tolkien Untangled vid pop up always makes my day! Fantastic video RD ❤ I was always frustrated with the hobbits for running away like that, but I never considered how important it was to the fight.

[@FutureMythology]

I'm blown away by how awesome and insightful this content is

[@EricGasz69420]

Damn bro, just finished rereading this part of the two towers! Great timing on the video! Love all your stuff!!!

[@gandalfthepotato9844]

This account is so underrated it amazes me

[@TonttuTorvinen]

Awesome content. I've been a tolkien nerd fot ages and it is so cool to still learn new things.

[@runninblue9415]

Really engaging and well thought out. Much more engaging than the usual 10 minute KZbin "this is orcs" videos thanks 👍

[@IanHeins]

Awesome thank you. Nice work dude

[@veronicasiegfried2712]

I absolutely love the way you explain things we wonder about. Thank you for all the time you put into your work.💖

[@CampNou1999]

Amazed that there is even content to make still to this day before being amazed at how you make it

[@NuTfielDRobErT]

That was the best start to my Friday morning drive to work. Thanks mate 👍

[@Bandita-M]

My absolute favorite videos......thank you 😊

[@astridchladek1927]

But thank you so much for gifting us with so many uncommon and surprising angles to the wonderful story!

[@christopherbaby3842]

This was amazing as always.

[@MrMojoRisin13]

Fantastic. I think I'd need to watch it again just to really get everything that went on!

[@tarynolyvia]

Always a great day when Rainbow Dave posts a video!

[@EeanWooo-to9kd]

Really interesting Dave of Many Colours, thank you :) always enjoy your vids!

[@ilijas3041]

With this passion bro has for LOTR he could narrate about two hobbits pulling the bucket of water out of the well, and make it sound like the most action-packed mystery fueled thriller out there. As long as the bucket has Made in ME label

[@cortexiphan972]

Man, I love your channel, and I would love to see a tolkien tv series of this kind of "b-side" stories.

[@JB-wj5ye]

thanks RD, always enjoy these

[@davidmiddleton7958]

During Tolkien's The Hobbit, the Orcs of the Misty Mountains certainly allied together. With Thorin Oakenshield's party eascaping the Misty Mountains, this stirred an alliance of tribes! Some of these were survivors of the Dwarf Wars.

[@victorianguyen6620]

So nice that you uploaded today! Im always looking forward to Tolkien Untangled aka DAVE! Yay! Thank you for this video which Ive just started to watch. Its almost 12am in Jersey, but tomorrow is Friday so I give myself some slack. Looking forward to the showdown!❤😊

[@GreyPilgrim_Mithrandir]

Excellent. As always. Thank you so much.

[@AhSageHumor]

Masterfully written! Thank you Dave!

[@sdev2749]

Great video explanation of these Orc movements - so good to see

[@christopherbaby3842]

2nd comment for the algo. Not that you're running out of Tolkein content but... I cannot get over how epic your 2nd age TV show would be so I'm again asking for a "pilot" episode breakdown possibly as a collab with TV show writers dialogue people etc.

[@jacobmccarthy256]

This is really great 😍 thank you for the in-depth LOTR-Lore and all the extra priceless info… I can look like even more of a geek to my friends now 🕺🏻

[@tolkienuntangled]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@roberthaynes488]

So thankful for the videos you make, Rainbow Dave

[@Vohtwomax]

Absolutely best channel on the tube. I’m working my way through the Turin saga again 😅 I think it might also be time to rock out Dave’s take on how rings of power should have been. Cheers!

[@WhoIsCalli]

This was a great video Dave. Really unique video idea and I loved it. So good 🌈

[@Cheddarcheesemonkey]

HES BACK

[@colinnelson6379]

Never stop making videos you're so cool!

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thanks!

[@tidcooney6273]

Thank you, Dave x

[@13RBruce]

Thanks you so much for making these videos, they are amazing!

[@tolkienuntangled]

Glad you like them!

[@simonbrosseau1783]

A Tolkien Untangled video on a Thursday, such a pleasant surprise !

[@mlebrooks]

Thank you for explaining the various factions of the orcs so clearly

[@kurtlichtenstein2325]

This is a really good analysis, thanks for this.

[@Zmorris666]

It always tickles me that they went through all that trouble for the wrong Hobbits. It plays out like a 3 stooges skit

[@tscarb]

Nicely done!!!!!

[@jdatkin8601]

Thanks

[@tolkienuntangled]

Very much appreciated!

[@ZeepDr]

Your work is so amazing!! Thank you!! Thank you!!!!

[@paulemge9156]

One of my top 2 Tolkien KZbinrs!

[@nateperkins9860]

Always happy to get these awesome videos

[@jdatkin8601]

Yes, my favourite group given a highlight by my favourite Tolkien channel!

[@Orovingwen]

I love the insights in Orc culture. One of the things I always wondered is why the moria Orcs would not just return home. They have no business with the ring and why would they want to see Saruman? Wouldn't it be better for them to go back the way they came with more shadow on the way to Moria than through the open plains of Rohan where the sun burns them? I can see why you like these two Orcs the best but I personally prefer the two captains Frodo&Sam meet, those who just want to get away from it all and don't care about the war :D

[@814TrumpArmy]

Best there is when it comes to Tolien then i would say 2nd place tie between darth galndalf men of the west and the broken sword! For use that watch its a great mounting u guys are on and personally it has been an honor to me to watch you and the others I named! There is other great cast out there as well but I can't name them all! Thanks Mr. TU!

[@astridchladek1927]

Danke!

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thank you! Very much appreciated!!

[@sevenroses8488]

Hey Dave, your content is superb. I'd love to hear your take on the fall of Gondolin. Thanks for all the work you put in.

[@adnananjum2919]

Great video! Opens a interesting question, what would happen if a orc like Grishnak had managed to find the one ring, would he keep with loyalty to Sauron or would it change/corrupt him

[@astridchladek1927]

Glorious time when a 🌈Dave video waits for me every other night! Sorry I missed my thanks last time… trying to make up for it now! Thank you for your creativity! Looking sooooo fwd to Gondolin, though🥳🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩

[@anakinlapierre-tate4127]

Omg I get off work and check my phone, first thing I see new video from rainbow Dave. LET'S FUCKEN GOOOOOO

[@ryanmcwilliams8784]

I just finished the chapter where merry and pippin hang out with quick beam. It’s crazy this video came out today lol.

[@terryschappert2397]

What a great video!

[@thatcrossfitdude]

Can’t believe I’d be so excited about a video on Orcs 😂😂😂😂 Rainbow Dave has arrived, ladies and gents! PS- I’m trying really hard to keep my urge about War of Wrath down😅

[@Enerdhil]

The War of Wrath lasted for 45-50 years. We don't know for sure which Valar and Maiar were included in The Host of the Valar. Perhaps 🌈 Dave should do a video on the War of Wrath.

[@thatcrossfitdude]

Can you imagine if he pulls it off like he did for How ROP should’ve been made? It’s gonna be crazy 😝

[@WStallard]

That was a very interesting presentation

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thanks!

[@imallrightme7336]

Brilliant video

[@ahandsomefridge]

Ha! I never knew about the different motivations of the different orc types (or I shamefully forgot if part of it was mentioned in the LOTR books). Great piece of lore to come upon, haven't seen it mentiomed on other lore channels yet.

[@Odiseusthelegend]

You are my favorite youtuber

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thanks!

[@TheHoneyBadger-yh5vj]

God bless you and your work sir 😇😇😇respect from Croatia 👍👍👍

[@egoborder3203]

was it skill that guided the arrow, or fate? As they say in baseball, "it's better to be the instrument of Ilúvatar than good"

[@michaellovecat]

Dave, I'm curious what you would be in Middle-Earth, your voice is as graceful as an elf but you're definitely as chill as a hobbit, maybe a elf that settled in the shire somewhere lol Great video, I love those baddies

[@GreatGreebo]

Thank you *Rainbow Dave* 🤘

[@MrARock001]

I feel like the orcs get a bad rap for all the chaos and for confusing Sauron. But he never told them what it was they were looking for, because he didn't trust them. And frankly, it was the Nazgûl who bear most of the blame, since they saw clearly that there were four hobbits leaving Bree and could have mentioned to Sauron that because only two were captured, there was only a 50% chance the Ring was in orc hands.

[@davidkaplan2745]

Masterfully told.

[@matthewdavis5530]

Love me grog, love me killin', love me destruction. 'Ate elves, 'ate tarks.

[@willmosse3684]

Sooooooo good man!

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thanks!

[@DamonNomad82]

As one who has been a Tolkien fan since age 6 and was a college freshman when the first of the Peter Jackson movies was released (thus my knowledge of the universe is based on the original books rather than the films), I was always fascinated by the story arc you addressed here. It's nice to know that I'm not the only one whose favorite orc is Ugluk. The films severely reduced his role in favor of "Lurtz", who wasn't even a character created by Tolkien. I also must say that you have the perfect voice to narrate the video. It's somehow relaxing and unsettling at the same time!

[@AlexisLopez-pb8ms]

This video is a million times more entertaining than anything that 1 billion dollar show Amazon is putting out. Great job rainbow Dave. When is your next video coming out. Can’t wait.