When Should I Change Elk Hunting Spots?

[@shawnbarkdull1800]

Dude. Best hunting channel out there. So detailed. Using real footage in your wind/thermal video was so crucial to me fully understanding everything. Most hunting videos are made for a certain kind of hunter. Very few are made the way this guy does his…in my experience. Really refreshing to come across this. Edited: accidentally left link by not spacing out dude and best haha. Had to change that. Not sure if KZbin shows edits like Reddit cuz I don’t comment too often on any Videos

[@CliffGray]

Really appreciate the support Shawn! thanks

[@FATBIKEHUNTER]

Great advice Cliff! I have hunted elk in the same area for 36 years. The sign is always there but it is a "spike only" unit so we only harvest about every 4 years. Lots of big bulls but those are a special lottery draw. Currently, my father has 20 points which in Washington means 400 entries as a "squared" state. We have harvested nice bulls with modern and muzzy but spikes are tough. My father is a sitter and waits for the elk. He is 79 and I give him that luxury. I am more about stirring things up, finding cows, and hoping the spikes are with them. I am now challenging myself to archery hunt elk. Every year, I remind myself that it is always a great walk in the woods regardless of the harvest. Memories are created and my next video on my FATBIKEHUNTER KZbin channel is about those memories that my dad reminds me of at each corner in the road.

[@vincethewoodlander]

The best thing my brother and I did when we went to Colorado the first year was we got there one week early and scouted. Still do every year but end up in the same spot every year. We hiked in and glassed in the morning and evenings. We bounced to 4 drainages/ranges scouting before we found one with the number of elk we wanted. We've hunted the same place for 7 years and have killed 12 bull elk. That week was worth gold. My brother guided 15 years in Montana and new Mexico and his knowledge was priceless. But his advice was simple when we weren't glassing and we hiked around. " I'm looking for green shit and smelling for elk" that's it. That's all the great advice he had. That and ..I don't wanna bump them from their beds. Being new to it I had no idea what the right amount of sign was. I would have spun my wheels on thin sign without him. Lotsa elk tear up ground and stink.

[@CliffGray]

Great additional tips! Thanks sounds like you guys have had phenomenal success 👍

[@vincethewoodlander]

@@CliffGray It helps a whole lot that there's a good elk herd there. Only one real rough dry and Windy year.

[@joshsmith3650]

@@vincethewoodlander I hunt the high cascades and spent a few days scouting our usual grounds two weeks ago. Nothing beats a slow start to a day when you begin to question yourself if the elk are still there or have moved just when cresting a drainage you get the smell and sound of a heard of elk 50 yards away.

[@joshsmith3650]

@@CliffGray my buddy and I hunt one area every year but usually hike into it early am. This year we are geared up with lightweight camping gear to set up closer to the grounds (3-1/2 miles from the trail, 4 miles from the truck) How close/far should our bivvy camp be from where we hunt this water source? I want to be close but not shoot myself in the foot with our stink moving the elk out. I understand how to read thermals and set up a plan to camp 300 yards away, but is that too close for comfort!? Thank you and I enjoy your videos.

[@vincethewoodlander]

@@joshsmith3650 Its a funny thing. Kinda like meeting an old friend. Like "oh I wondered if you'd show up." Makes me grateful for the ground, the area, and life in general. PS:. In response to your question to Cliff. If we spike camp. We sleep in a cold, dark timber draw, below where we've seen the elk. We're further away than the distance you described, probably roughly half a mile, 800 meters. The thermals in our area always suck down there day or night because of a decent sized drainage system. Just don't get too high near the saddle of the draw lots of animals cross in them. It's a miserable dark, cold camp but we don't care we're only there at night anyways.

[@HikeHuntHaul]

That’s legit advise. Don’t let your eye get bigger than your stomach. Reality vs perception. It gets real in the mountains. Thanks!

[@avsfan3724]

Thanks for this. I'm headed back to an area I hunted last year for 4th season cow. All I saw was a lone 6 point. I count last year as a scouting trip. Mostly just getting the lay of the land and seeing where the hunting pressure is.

[@timg7627]

Excellent advice. What you’re saying all sounds very logical and intuitive. It’s the very thoughts we’ve all had from time to time but hearing an expert say it does make a big difference

[@ct5465]

Going on my first public elk hunt in nw Colorado next year. I’m already so excited I can’t stand it. Aside from needing gear I don’t have, I’m ready to go today and can’t wait to get there.

[@CliffGray]

👍

[@robertmurray8257]

I would love to get your best archery elk calling techniques, how to actually find and see a good set up!

[@elisamelbi8134]

the spirit continues to fight relentlessly for the men💪🙂

[@jonathanbowser7343]

Man I have been addicted to your content. Leaving for Montana for archery elk hunt in 3 week. Trying to absorb everything your saying. Thanks

[@CliffGray]

Glad it's helpful man! Good luck on your hunt. Thanks for the support of the videos.

[@blznsaddles]

My buddy and I tried a new unit in CO this year, we have tried a couple do it yourself elk hunts and so far hadn’t been successful. We really packed the miles on in this unit, found tons of older sign but not fresh. We were able to move around the unit some with my Jeep, and we changed spots on the third day. Tried a new section that was extremely dense, visibility was 50 yards at most. Almost impossible to hike through because of all the downed trees and impossible to do it quietly. We wound up hunting from a hiking path because we could move quietly. I was beginning to think there were no elk in this unit but on day 4 we bumped an enormous bull. So thick we couldn’t seal the deal but at least we knew that there were elk. We wound up bumping another cow and this time we were better prepared and I stopped her with a call. My buddy shot her at 45 yards. Big trophy for us, it represented a lot of hard work. But we went 4 days without seeing any elk, even though we saw old sign, moose, mulies… not sure what the moral is except that I might have bailed if we had anywhere else to go, and the elk were indeed in there.

[@CliffGray]

congrats on the success - appreciate the comment and story!

[@sheerwillsurvival2064]

Always great advice and tips and as hunting pressure get worse year after year. You will need these tips. Thanks Cliff

[@CliffGray]

Thanks!

[@TheKing-to4iy]

Going to Colorado for first time elk hunting this year for second rifle season. Thanks for putting out the videos to help in my learning process. Planning on staying nights near a small town for first year and have a "lower" (8,000 to 8,500) elevation hunting area picked out on the way to two valleys in a higher (9,500-11,000) elevation. Hunt primarily at lower elevation if cold and snowy and higher of warmer. Split time between glassing and still hunting transition areas. Hoping to continue learning and growing in the years ahead.

[@CliffGray]

Good luck man! Sounds like a good plan.

[@timothywaterman1511]

I moved when there was 3-5" of snow in the forecast, it verified by dawn and proceeded to snow 16" of the heaviest wettest snow that you have ever seen. Getting the truck out was sketchy...Moved to the low country and have got into em 2 years in a row...it's just way the hell back there. No luck on bulls yet, but lots of cows in the cross hairs

[@gregmurphy5014]

i’m trying out a new spot this year and it’s a 10 day…i’m super nervous i’m gunna miss the mark on where they are (muleys tho). it’s overwhelming when i’m just checking out topos and google maps. great video again man!

[@CliffGray]

👍good luck Greg!

[@Elkslaya1]

I’ve hunted the Gila quite a bit. I will give an area a minimum of 2-1/2 days leaving the second half of that day to get myself moved. It’s a hard decision but if I’ve exhausted my efforts, not seeing or hearing elk, and not seeing or smelling any fresh sign, I will consider moving or move. The thing that makes it hard is knowing that just because they aren’t here today, doesn’t mean they won’t be here tomorrow. I have stayed too and killed elk. It really is a tough decision. This is why knowing an area so well is important. It helps when making a decision to stay or move.

[@richardkramer1094]

Truer words were never spoken @Cliff. I have seen elk sit tight in an isolated pocket of quakies with hunters all around them but the hunters (opportunists) never went so far as to even look at that pocket…not 100 yards off the road. When I’m backpacking into and area my eyes are always moving, I search the ground for sign, the trees, up and down the canyons and draws, etc. and when I stop to rest I search close first then pull my binoculars. I do not waste any time, I’m there to hunt. Even when backpacking in I move stealthily, my ears are always search for breaking branches, cow calls and bugles no matter how distant I try to locate them and mark them on my map. I escout for days long before I even arrive at my hunting spot. Escouting is one of the most valuable tools and I always have 4 to 5 specific spots where I want to hunt.

[@CliffGray]

👍thanks Richard

[@milo555100]

You have had a difficult job. Well done. Few have your experience. Dealing with the “human factor”

[@jamesstockton3777]

I think you nailed it. Been hunting elk for 30 years and this is the best " no shit" advice I've heard. Well done. Ever tree saddle hunt elk? Biggest kept secret in WASHINGTON.

[@CliffGray]

It's interesting you mention that James... I was actually checking it out. Do you go way up high in a conifer? Seems like a fun way to hunt... and effective where there aren't other ways to get where you can see much.

[@jamesstockton3777]

@@CliffGray It's another tool in the tool box I use when certain situations present themselves. Wallow of course, heavy use trails, drainage or water sources. No need to get much higher than 15 to 20 feet. Great for multi use dear, bear etc.. so you get to use it more.

[@jamesstockton3777]

@@CliffGray hey Cliff, forgot to mention, if you are checking it out, don't buy into the "one stick method" or "multi-step aiders". Trading a few pounds isn't worth the safety trade off. I do use a one step aider on my bottom stick but that's it. One slip and it's cheese grated face cause your linemans rope won't save you. These young guys who promote this shit, well.... let's just say they shouldn't. I use my tether to defend and a linemans rope to climb and install.

[@CliffGray]

@@jamesstockton3777 appreciate the additional guidance. thanks

[@MiddleOutdoorsman]

Good video, food for thought, and I've got a lot of thinking to do. 😆

[@vincethewoodlander]

Whatchu know bout Poppin smoke? Lol Your info is so true and practical good stuff

[@curtisgore1611]

Awesome content! I need all you got man. Thank you

[@CliffGray]

Thanks Curtis!

[@nickdondey678]

You mentioned a “correct page” in this video. Wait do you consider an appropriate pace when searching for elk in a new area? Let’s say somewhere in the flattops for reference

[@bobbykolachi3185]

Great content Cliff. One aspect you didn’t cover is other hunters/ pressure. I find a hot wallow, fresh sign even see small bull. As I hunt the area, I kneel down under a spruce for cover and all my shooting lanes are freshly trimmed. Whole mountain and some dude hunted same dam tree w/ in 3-4 days. 4 days later 3 or 4 bumbling hunter group show up, they all stink up this 50 acre honey hole, One winner actually takes a crap at first light 75 yards from wallow. Other hunters have been my biggest reason for abandoning primary hunt areas. How much can/would you tolerate?

[@CliffGray]

Ha! It’s rough man. It’s a factor for sure… sometimes I don’t even feel it’s as important in regard to success as it is in relation to the experience. Other hunters are just plain annoying… even if they are perfect polite, respectful, etc… So the answer just comes down personal preference….

[@GostoFan]

Cliff, really liking your content…question for you… would you recommend truck camping vs spike camping in a couple miles for learning a new area (or areas) in heavy pressures units. I’m a late to the game archery elk hunter and my son is set on spiking a couple miles. It seemed like last year the guys that were on elk in CO were packed in.

[@CliffGray]

depends a bit on the area. Overall, I suggest that people either truck camp and expect big hikes daily or camp 1-2 miles from the road on their first trip. Just so they can get the lay of the land. If you have some info on a spot that produces - then that's a different deal, but generally going in blind backpacking 4+ miles on your first trip isn't super effective and wears folks out quick.

[@jaronhoda]

This is amazing information

[@ctrip34]

Have you ever hunted logan canyon in northern Utah? Also any tips on hunting spikes? BTW, I just found your channel & am loving it. Very informative. Thank you & keep it up!!🤙🏼

[@NAubc]

Cliff you’re so good man. Start a podcast please.

[@CliffGray]

👍thanks man, I appreciate it. Focus is videos at the moment, but I could see that on the horizon!

[@ColoradoStreaming]

@@CliffGray Honestly I like the video format more, you get to the point and have visuals to back up your points. My problem with podcasts is the episodes are typically over an hour long so the guys end up just talking about random stuff 90% of the time and you only get about 5 min of good advice.

[@myidahohomestead.7123]

I've spent the last 7 days in a hunting area where i was home every night. Saw one lone bull. Watched him for an hour and a half. He finally fed out of sight. I have a cow tag. Haven't cut one fresh track or seen even one cow. Not back to work tomorrow. Maybe i can hunt the weekend again. The mountains i have been hunting i can class from my yard. Saw lots of elk in the spring and summer. I've seen 5 moose and one bull elk and spotted counting all the deer. But not one cow elk.

[@CliffGray]

This time of year, post rut, cows tend to move into larger groups and into milder country. If you are finding single bulls or small groups of bulls… try lower and less rugged terrain 👍good luck

[@myidahohomestead.7123]

@@CliffGray yeah that's what I'm thinking. They moved from the public land to the private.

[@rogerramjet7567]

My observation is that there’s elk in an area at a certain time. Not all the time. When I lived in Montana I usually hunted the last two weeks of November. Before that there were cows and rag horns there but not big bulls. Weather would drive them down. That came in the last two weeks of November. That’s when we would begin seeing mature animals. I was trophy hunting then. Now, I would be looking to fill the freezer. Big difference. Bottom line is that you have to know the where and when.

[@CliffGray]

there is a lot of truth to that. thanks

[@WildernessMedic]

Just moved spots after a few years. I care more about getting away from the crowd of people than I do hunting an area I know and have little success in.

[@Gokiburi777]

6 mile pack out on an elk? Tough guy. Especially in the San Juans.

[@JacopoSkydweller]

Yeah he's no slouch. Wonder how many miles were hiked before the packout too!

[@curtisgore1611]

You said protected area to camp. What do I look for on a backpack hunt. To camp

[@CliffGray]

Im working on getting a video together on this… gunna take a bit of time. Want to have a bunch of examples of spots. Stay tuned! 👍

[@TG_Wyers]

I’m rifle hunting a new part of a unit this year. I’m worried about going in to scout too early and pissing of bow hunters. And advice about how to avoid this? I don’t want to be “that guy.” Plan on wearing blaze and keeping a low profile otherwise. I’m also carrying bear and cougar tags and wouldn’t hesitate to take a predator during my scouting.

[@southernhood5145]

good stuff

[@CliffGray]

Thanks

[@ColoradoStreaming]

This is why anyone that wants to hunt needs to spend the entire summer camping and hiking. Camp discipline is a huge factor and keeping organized makes packing up much faster. You and your buddies should be able to stuff up your bags and pads and break down your tent like clockwork. Back in Boy Scouts we used to chew the hell out of the younger guys who didnt follow discipline or didnt know how to properly roll tarps etc. After a few months they get so good you dont even talk to each other, you just go through the motions everyone knows. Tip: Remember, fold the tent in half and the guy with the closed end rolls and the open end holds. This lets air escape as you roll the tent. The guy who holds also needs to RESIST the pull of the guy rolling so its tight. Sometimes you need to roll the tent once to get the air out then roll it again to make it tight. This is especially true for backpacking tents where there is little tolerance between the rolled tent and the storage sack.

[@robinworkman3621]

That's the plan my brother n law and I always discuss. Then reality kicks in,work 5-6 days a week,wife kids etc. We do what we can,I hiked so much last year I poked 2 new holes in my belt(smaller)

[@ColoradoStreaming]

@@robinworkman3621 Its funny you say that. I just got back from Elk Hunting in New Mexico last week and legit scared myself getting on the scale. I dropped between 15-17 pounds hiking 10 miles a day for 5 days.

[@robinworkman3621]

@@ColoradoStreaming ya, it concerned me too then the wife said, you spent the last 2 weeks hiking everyday.

[@rexconnely1412]

Do you have a video that covers whether it's better to elk hunt (rifle) in the morning vs evening if you had to chose? Thanks!

[@CliffGray]

Hi Rex, I can do one. The short of it is that it is best to setup a hunt with glassing in the afternoon and hunt/harvest the next morning. That was always the high % strategy in my experience. Not all situations - but it has the edge.

[@rexconnely1412]

@@CliffGray I think it would be helpful. In the area we hunt it takes a few hours to get to and from the actual hunt areas so we are chosing between early or late otherwise we're hunting from 4am till 10pm.

[@CliffGray]

@@rexconnely1412 I gotcha - have you ever thought about staying out in the area for a night. Just a little backpackers tent.... Back in the day I had a habit of just rolling up in a blue tarp for the night. Only when I had elk located right at sunset would I do that. It was a struggle but would pay off a lot of the time. If the next morning didn't work, I'd usually head back to base camp and take that next afternoon off to recoup some lost sleep/energy.

[@rexconnely1412]

@@CliffGray we actually are going to stay back in there now which will help. I think it would still be good to know how to take a rest day, meaning if you are going to recharge a day by doing less what would be the better choice to skip. Thanks, looking forward to your video!

[@toddnash789]

We archery hunted the Flattops last year in an area that was very difficult to hike into. We chose this area because there were hunters everywhere around the vicinity and this area was difficult to get into so it kept most hunters out. There was old sign everywhere, but nothing fresh. Everything was at least weeks old. After 2 days of covering the area we moved on. We made the assumption that this area was an area they hung out in the spring and had moved on to somewhere else. It was in an old volcano basin that was surrounded by steep cliffs about a square mile in size. There were several springs with water and the feed looked fresh, but no elk. There was no easy way in or out of this area so it was a wasted day in and out. I am curious on your thoughts about this. Were we premature in leaving?

[@CliffGray]

Hi Todd, it's hard for me to say. I dealt with this type of situation a lot of over the years. In a lot of the Flat Tops there are "Summer Ranges" for the elk.... but they overlap a lot with where you will find elk during archery season. The biggest challenge with elk in the Flat Tops in September is you have an enormous amount of good habitat... a big elk population... but that population is dispersed to super low density at times. They just aren't constrained by food, water, bedding areas, etc... I had archery camps that would chase elk for 5 days straight, then new guys a week later couldn't find a single elk for 4-7 day stretches, then a week later guys in the same camp would shoot elk right outside the tents.... They just bump around in all that habitat. When logistics are like what you mention (blowing essentially 2 full days to get re-settled in a spot), the key is to really dig into secluded spots and see if you can pick up some sign on the edges... just little crevices that might hold 5-10 elk... a couple elk... whatever. Sometimes you can avoid losing that time, by just picking up one new track... then spend hte next 3-4 days carefully hunting that little group of elk. It isn't ideal, but nor is losing 20-30-50% of your hunting time. I hope that helps.

[@406highlanders]

It's a serious mind game when you start thinking of moving, is it going to be better in another area? Its a gamble, my biggest problem is I will have an area that was loaded with elk last year and the next season I will over commit and the elk are sparse but I stay too long thinking it will be like the previous year.

[@CliffGray]

Yeah, I hear ya. Once you get enough years in an area, you will start to piece together a few variables on wether or not it’s the year to be there… moisture, vegetation, snow levels, etc… I never got it perfect, but at least an idea. Good luck out there👍appreciate the comment

[@calineman]

What are your thoughts on picking a camp spot on a backpack hunt?

[@CliffGray]

If it’s your first backpack hunt, make your first camp 2-3 miles from your access point. If you can run a big ridge out where you can check multiple basins… without a ton of elevation gain/drop, do that. I’ve backpack hunted with some of the toughest bastards on earth, ultramarathoners, navy seals, etc…. and everyone has a limit on net elevation gain with a 50-60lb pack, everyone. Lots of guys get trapped hiking up the bottom of long, skinny drainages because the trails are mellow, and 80% of the wilderness trails work that way in the West. They just get stuck back in a single basin. Try to avoid that. Good luck Kenny! 👍

[@lancelamb8491]

My question is looking for spots dependent on seasons like Sept/early Oct…vs Nov 3/4 season… how do you narrow this down if possible

[@BranNew1]

If your otc unit has free range cattle/sheep roaming around at high elevation.. would you still give it a shot for finding elk?

[@OnlineMarketingServ]

You'll laugh or think this isn't true. Three years ago we spotted several bulls bedded down in pines about 30 yards off of a well used cattle trail. They could see everything from their vantage point. About 10am, 50 cattle began grazing towards them. The elk couldn't see them yet but they heard them. I had my buddy get into the cattle line as they were going to walk single file past those elk on that trail. He thought I had lost my mind but he did it. Arrow on his rest and release on the string. I told him just relax and waddle with the cows. 300 yards later he takes one step out of the cow train and gets a 30yd shot at the biggest bull he's ever seen let alone take. The elk thought he was an odd cow. We are still laughing to this day. Glad we tried this hair brained stunt because that was his last year to hunt due to medical issues.

[@CliffGray]

HA! that is an awesome story.

[@CliffGray]

I generally steer clear of sheep. They are annoying and do push elk/deer off. I have hunted around cattle a lot. They affect things a little but not bad.

[@trevorselch5574]

Grass is always greener, till you go to new areas and they all suck, then back to the area you know

[@CliffGray]

Ha! Very true, a lot of the time

[@neiljones3233]

if you about 10 min or so, would you jump on a zoom call with someone to fine tune their e-scouting?

[@CliffGray]

Neil, you can hit me up via email. Email is in the channel information page. thanks

[@knuckledragger2412]

💪💪

[@yanceymcdonald6017]

The line "they are trying to take care of themselves with as little exposure as possible." That's money. If anyone takes anything from this video, let it be that line! Because if you truly understand and comprehend it, you will find elk!

[@CliffGray]

Thanks Yancey... I do think that encompasses a lot of the whole challenge with pressured game animals... particularly elk.

[@yanceymcdonald6017]

@@CliffGray it does 100%! You are putting out really solid information! You’re one of the best sources of hunting information on KZbin. Keep killing it man! 🤙🏻

[@CliffGray]

@@yanceymcdonald6017 thanks!

[@adamboone6864]

Thanks Cliff, after listening to your videos. I have come up with a plan. If you have time could you let me know if it’s solid or needs tweaked. Here it is. If I am not successful at drawing the archery elk tag for my favorite GMU, I get a $100 rifle bear tag just so I can keep going back and see how these elk work and see if I can pattern them. And as a bonus, if a bear walks out I’ll kill them and save the elk and deer population for later years.

[@CliffGray]

That works. In general, if we are talking the mountain states, your bears are going to be in different habitat vs elk. There will be some overlap and it will allow you to get to know the area. 👍

[@hunterh7026]

I have a question, I'm in an area nearby that has a solid herd of probably 800 to 1000 head, we live within an hr so we've been going out to scout probably 3x a week for the past month. We're not hiking out too far because of physical constraints at the moment but we can get around the area pretty well on trails and roads. So the first few times out scouting we got skunked in one area then found a few tracks in another, the next few times we visited an area and we were in the thick, they were in our camp, everywhere around us, we could barely sleep. The next time we returned to the same spot and we didn't hear a squeak. I LOST 1000 HEAD OF ELK! it's not a giant area and we've been all over it since and nothing. I guess my question is do we pack up and chase the big herd or are there generally satellites that linger in an area that are worth going after? How long do you think before they circle back?

[@CliffGray]

That’s a hard one to answer, not knowing the area. Elk generally move in a big way during August, before the rut. Those elk may not be back to that area until next Summer. If it’s an agricultural situation, they will probably be back the minute they get harassed where they went off to. Hope that helps! Good luck 👍

[@hunterh7026]

Thanks, and thanks for all the videos. It's all public North of Hayden, I know the private where they go once season starts but I thought they'd hang out up high a little longer

[@michaelogden5093]

My spots have all burned out. Oh well.

[@CliffGray]

Lots of mountains out there to explore! 👍

[@michaelogden5093]

@@CliffGray Always liked scouting better than hunting anyway.

[@greghertzberg6220]

6 mile pack out tough? That is mid colorado. Tough? Thats nothing.

[@CliffGray]

I don’t know if I’d call it nothing….😜but yeah pretty normal in CO.