The UNWRITTEN RULES of Hunting Public Land That No One Talks About

Here are a few unwritten rules that will help any backcountry elk hunter or deer hunter get more out of their hunts on public land without disrupting hunts of other public land hunters.
I also touch on some tips that will help public land hunters when they are hunting areas with commercial wilderness outfitter activity.
I understand that some of you disagree with these so feel free to leave your perspective in the comments.
00:00 - Intro
01:10 - First Blood
03:10 - Glassing Spots Priority
04:05 - Other Hunters on Stalks
05:30 - Long Range Shooting
06:35 - Calling Setups
08:10 - Camp Locations
09:45 - Prime Hunting Hours
10:40 - Who Cares?
12:35 - Getting Outfitters on Your Side
14:40 - Dealing with Horses/Mules on the Trail
#hunting #elkhunting #muledeerhunting #backpackhunting #adventure #selfreliance #pursuitwithcliff
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[@anthonygendron9737]

I love the guy that comes up to me and say “Your in my spot and I’ve been hunting here for 20 years”.

[@CliffGray]

bwhahaha - yeah that is not an unwritten rule. goof balls

[@sandygap1]

Cliff, I agree with you. But, it has been my experience few if any other hunters understand, let alone abide by these rules. Society, in general, has lost all sense of decorum. People are a selfish lot, and when you add into the mix time (time off work, to get ready, etc), money (cost of licenses, equipment, etc) and emotion (ego trip to get an animal, reputation, etc) it becomes an aggressive mad house where they feel entitled to ruined all other hunters experience. In all due respect, your rules were the standards 40 years ago. Now, it's dog eat dog.

[@CliffGray]

I hear ya! Don't disagree with you that there seems to be a steady decline of treating others like you would like to be treated. If the video helps a few folks get along with a few other folks up in the mountains, it's a win for me. Nonetheless, wish I had a broader solution! Thanks for the comment.

[@kel9796]

​@@CliffGray hey Cliff, I thought you were about to talk about good and bad locations for backpack or spike camp set up. I know there's a lot of talk about where you should and shouldn't put camp but when I look at my hunting spots I get a little nervous about accidentally dropping camp in a location that someone thinks is wrong.

[@CliffGray]

@@kel9796 I'll do a video on picking good camp spots. In terms of camping in spots that someone else thinks is wrong... I understand what you are saying. You can look at the comments on this video and you will see that several people feel like another person's choice of camp spot ruined the hunting in a certain area. It surely can, but this is typically overblown. From an experience perspective, I think the polite thing to do is give people privacy if, at all possible. That's what I touch on in this video. Now in terms of bumping elk with your camp, putting it in a bedding area, etc... just try to keep your camp out of obvious bedding areas. If there is fresh elk sign in the timber there, move off a bit. Several times I had guys tell me that one of my outfitting camps was put right where the elk bed... I'd giggle to myself given that most of those camps had been in those spots for 3 months before the season (summer fishing)... and for 30+ years seasonally before that :) BUT somehow now they were ruining the hunting.

[@kel9796]

@@CliffGray thx Cliff this helps quite a bit. Avoiding bedding areas doesn't seem too hard and I know not to put a camp in the middle of a small drainage. I'll keep an eye out for that video. Should be interesting to see the comments on that topic.

[@bobriddle6068]

We can't fix the ones that don't get it, it's up to us to hold true, our Reward will be In time someone new Will learn it and that is why we try.

[@DeRocco21]

ive run into a few other hunters out in the woods and they've been cordial, i even helped them pull thier kill back to thier truck, you help one another

[@DarmacQ]

A rule I’ve been taught from my Dad on our recent hunts as we very frequently ran into others; be kind and help people out as they may be your only option if you need help Ex they got their truck stuck, we helped the, out then they told us where they saw game, as well as many unspoken in your video too.

[@CliffGray]

👍

[@jimtebelskis5437]

That was great - thanks Cliff. I'm a lone public-lands hunter - avoiding others is my magnet. I don't talk to others much, so good for me to hear and consider these points clearly (I didn't know some of them prior). I'm definitely on-board with all this - thanks so much.

[@CliffGray]

Thanks Jim 👍

[@scottkemp9530]

In Colorado it can be really tough to find your own spot or elk herd unmolested by others. I pretty much keep to myself and formulate a game plan that often works around what others are doing. Being nimble and adaptive has paid off for me

[@tripleD73]

Cliff, great Video and topic. Only rule I question is the rule of first blood. I’ve been a firearm and bowhunter safety instructor for 10 years now and we always teach the kids that it’s the first one to make a lethal shot in a vital area of the animal. That’s also how the classroom manuals read that we teach from. If one guy hits one in the leg and a mile later the next guy puts one thru both lungs, seems to me it should be the second guy that claims it but that goes back to morals and ethics. I’d never try to claim it if I was the first guy that made a poor shot. Probably even help pack it out and hope he gave me some meat.

[@CliffGray]

Yeah, you can see where some other comments have the same thought. Wish I would have clarified this more in video. I’ve always been first blood oriented because it’s really the only provable one. Who gut shot the bull and who double lunged it? Impossible to say. It’s very obvious who hit first, based on location of shots, the movement of the animal and blood trail. I do agree that reasonable hunters shouldn’t claim animals that they did not mortally wound

[@noahbyrne2402]

One rule I’ve have always followed is the “one truck rule” If someone is already parked and hunting in the spot you were going to hunt go hunt elsewhere You got there too late…. Don’t go walking up the mountain behind them!!! Its happened to us all. Have backup plans

[@seregill13]

That's a pretty dumb rule, one truck for thousands of acres?

[@CliffGray]

I hear ya Noah. I think it matters a bit on the type of access point it is. Spots that are clearly day hunt spots… park, walk up a small drainage - it does drive me nuts when people park next to you and then walk up and sit right under you, usually without noticing you are there… now on Wilderness access points, lots of ways to go, go in and setup camps, hunt big country- there could be 6 trucks there and it’s fine. Just depends on the spot a bit for me 👍

[@noahbrainard9468]

I think this one should depend on the situation. Sometimes there are multiple hunting spots in different drainages with one parking area. But I do agree with the principle. Don't take follow the other hunters. and don't jack up someone else's hunt

[@evanwindom]

@@CliffGray Exactly. Good point.

[@jaguar_af_outside]

Thank you cliff for putting this out, : public land turkey hunter here in the south and I wish there were more of these type videos out there , the young / new / Naïve hunters need to hear this thank you

[@charlesziegler3996]

Great information, three times I have encountered guides and hunters on horseback. One resulted in an immediate notification from the wrangler of a grizzly that had moved in on a successful hunter and had been wounded. He recommended that we leave the area which we did with great appreciation of the warning. The second two times, a wrangler told us where he had seen mule deer behind him and we successfully harvested both deer. A friendly word and a reasonable question about game can be a great help on public land hunts. Especially for non resident hunters.

[@CliffGray]

👍

[@trevorj.8401]

Amen, these are all good points to consider! It's important to practice good sportsmanship! Thanks for another good one Cliff! I can't express how valuable your videos are! Thanks again for what you do.

[@CliffGray]

Thanks Trevor! 👍👊

[@SwiftShamisJustus]

I’m putting in for my first ever deer hunt and elk hunt this year and if got to say, your videos have helped more than anything! There is so much to being an all-purpose outdoorsman and you have been a great representative! Thanks for all the hard work

[@CliffGray]

thanks Justus! good luck on your hunts!

[@rowdyhoundsman]

I’m glad someone finally said this, thank you for sharing this!

[@IntenseAngler]

Excellent video and topic Cliff! 100% agree with everything that you talked about here 👍 It's following these unwritten rules that makes for the best hunting experience possible for everyone. Thanks for another stellar video brother 👍

[@CliffGray]

Thanks man!

[@chrisgulbrandson9839]

You’re spot on, call it what it is!

[@The93ssfd]

very nice job. you bring up some important aspects of hunting interaction and express yourself very well. very professional!

[@CliffGray]

Thanks! 👍

[@justinbwelding7614]

100% agree! Everyone that hunts public land should know and understand every unwritten rule you discussed!

[@CliffGray]

👍👊thanks Justin

[@standingbear998]

who's rules?

[@nj-bz8pv]

So many d bags have moved to Colorado and everyone hunts here now because the cpw has zero clue how to manage out of state tags that the stupid stuff I see anymore is mind blowing. Some guys literally camped in the elks bedding area last year where I archery hunt

[@CliffGray]

That kind of stuff is mainly folks just not knowing. Bummer deal once they get bumped out of their bedding spot 🤦‍♂️

[@darrindedman2053]

Hell yes!!! Thank you. I’ll be sharing this.

[@CliffGray]

thanks Darrin!

[@arch0044]

Cliff nice video. One thing I would add is just because you’ve hunted the same spot for the last 20 years does not mean you are entitled to that spot this year. In my opinion the first person there gets the spot.

[@CliffGray]

I would agree with that. I should have mentioned that as I have seen many conflicts around that. I feel for people that roll into a "family camp" to find new hunters... but there isn't a more fair solution than first-come/first-serve

[@alanrock2173]

Your tips are always on point . Thanks and keep it up 👍

[@CliffGray]

Thanks Alan!

[@benjaminbenedict7779]

Great advise. Matthew (7:12): “In everything, do to others what you would have them do to you We actually had a very nice guys help my son and I look for a deer for a couple hrs on my sons first mule deer hunt. My some was 10yrs old and it was a great example of being kind and helpful to others hunters.

[@33736]

Great advise all around, thanks.

[@M.H357]

Thanks Cliff, as others stated earlier, lots of people disregard these rules, I had encountered both faces - sort of speak. What I can say is: treat people by who you are not by what they are even if they don't abide by these rules, at least you won't lose interest in the hunt and ruin your day. Best of luck everyone

[@CliffGray]

👍

[@Alberta_MTN_Bear]

Agreed to everything you brought up. I think one category that could be covered in this or even separately is, Ego. I don’t care who anyone is but there is so much damn ego regarding hunting. This arrogant, egotistic attitude is detrimental to the positive outlook we as true genuine hunters and outdoorsman try to retain. Gear is often a topic of discussion and for some reason so many people believe that being an expert in “gear” makes you some sort of professional. Hunt because you love it. Not because you want people to love you. That’s my motto. Egos ruin a lot of experiences. And most of the time. Those egos are checked on the mountain. Great video Cliff!

[@CliffGray]

Lots of great points man! I’ve fumbled around with the idea for an video… I agree with you that ego does screw up hunting but then I start to reflect on myself… it’s tricky for me because I do have a strong urge to work at getting better at these different outdoor activities… hunting, fishing, spearfishing and whatever the next thing is. Part of that is ego… so is it good in that regard? Drives you to get out in the field more. Perhaps it’s about when ego has us sacrifice enjoying the present in these activities for something superficial (likes/views on social media). I gotta think in this a bit more 👍 appreciate the comment

[@user-yo4jn7rc7v]

I wish more people showed common courtesy. So far this year three times people have worked in on me while turkey hunting. One shot the bird I was working, one missed, and one managed to chase it away. They all parked right next to me in the parking lot and walked down the same muddy road in my tracks. Last fall I had an outfitter let his bear dogs go right next to my car and they treed a bear a hundred yards from me. I had an outfitter walk up behind me while elk hunting in Colorado, he told me to move along and that he was hunting there after he and client walked two miles in my tracks, in the snow. I asked him why didn’t you see my tracks and he said he thought they were from the other day and told me move along. It was opening morning. I’ve ran into a handful of people that a courteous but it’s the minority it seems. Typically 50% of my days are lost to interference. Not complaining but I don’t think the “unwritten rules” are reaching the right audience.

[@CliffGray]

I hear ya Chet! It can be frustrating 🤦‍♂️ When I can I just try to build some strategy that works around people, not always easy

[@f1point2]

Hopefully you told that outfitter where to shove it. What a twunt.

[@dustinclark8430]

All fantastic points! I’m glad you made this video, as it seems there’s more and more public land hunters out there, and less knowledge about the “rules”, I’ve been fortunate to see and benefit from hunters doing the right thing and also been on the other side of that fence by being messed up by other hunters.

[@CliffGray]

Thanks Dustin

[@BranNew1]

Thanks for trying to preach ethics about public land free for all hunters, good luck..

[@CliffGray]

Bwhaha… I’ll do my best I suppose

[@rogerramjet7567]

Great segment Cliff. Just wish all public land hunters would listen to this and follow it, but sadly, today, I don’t think so.

[@jasonjohn1978]

Great video Cliff as always. And full of useful information. All of it seems like common sense to most people. But there are always those assholes that have to ruin it for everyone. I’ve been fortunate enough to have not have had any issues on any of my backpack hunts and always try to be as respectful and friendly as possible to anyone I’ve ever interacted with in the backcountry. We’ve all put a lot of time, effort , and money into getting back there, life’s a lot easier for all of us if we’re civil with one another. Actually, there was one thing that happened to myself that I was a little annoyed with. It was Archery mule deer season and I was seven miles in and found out that a lion hunter with dogs in August had ran his dogs on foot through the bottoms of all the basins I had to hunt the day before I got back there. Now I love Lyon hunting and think it’s awesome, but I feel like it was kind of a dick move. He boogered up all the deer and pushed them around . I definitely would’ve lost my shit if I was in there at the time and witnessed him blow all the deer out of the basin I was attempting to hunt. I understand I don’t own the backcountry and he has just as much of a right to be there as I do. But I feel like archery season is one time of year that a Lyon hunter should avoid running dogs through certain areas out of respect for the amount of effort it takes to get back there and be successful. The odds are already completely stacked against me. And I definitely can’t just hop in my truck the same day and head to a different area. Cliff, I’m curious to hear your opinion on that. Was that a shitty thing to do on his part, or am I in the wrong for being annoyed with the situation? He didn’t ruin my hunt, but it did take me a few days to turn up deer that I otherwise could’ve turned up on the first or second day.

[@CliffGray]

"We’ve all put a lot of time, effort , and money into getting back there, life’s a lot easier for all of us if we’re civil with one another.' - This statement is right on point! On this lion hunting deal - yes, I don't think you should be running dogs during open deer/elk seasons in areas with deer/elk hunters.

[@hectatusbreakfastus6106]

Thanks for these Cliff. I'm trying to get in shape for hunting season by hiking around with a 90lb pack. It's going to be a new experience for me so I hope that I can not piss off the other hunters in my area while I'm trying to get my dinner.

[@CliffGray]

Haha! 👍 just basic stuff like I discussed… follow that and you’ll get along well up there! Good luck man

[@tylerbeaudoin3310]

The part about what to do when you encounter a pack train on a trail is very helpful. I ran into that situation a few times in the flattops and I wanted to do the respectful thing but I honestly didn't know what that was.

[@CliffGray]

thanks Tyler. I hear ya, no reason why anyone should know. It's a pretty unique situation but once it pops up you realize it can be a little anxiety inducing for everyone, hahaha

[@philbow6374]

I had a situation where I was hunting in my usual camping spot in the wilderness for a week when a guide came in and set up camp less than 200 yards from me. They came to my camp and asked when I was leaving!? I had camped in the same spot probably for 8 years never had anyone camp by me like that. I was polite and just told him one more week and just told him where I was concentrating my hunt and I would make sure to stay out of his way, that there was plenty of mountain to hunt. He did not seem happy but just said , “Okay” Man , they were loud at night! I left two days earlier than plan, it went down hill from there. It all my 35 years that was the only bad experience I have had hunting, so count your blessings.

[@NathanSteiner-pq3ui]

Awesome video, I love your stuff!

[@CliffGray]

thanks Nathan!

[@deanlee8851]

Great tips! Thank you for the straight up information. On the first blood tip though, game wardens do the opposite... the kill shot gets the animal.

[@side483]

Great advice, I wish everyone would use this as a framework. Another hunter with a different kind of tag led me to my 6 point elk last year because we were nice to him. It doesn't take much to be kind and sometimes it really pays off.

[@CliffGray]

good to hear!

[@TrueLineOutdoors]

Such a great video. Opening day of my first elk hunt had a nice bull at 181 yards bedded when another hunter shot at him from 500 plus yards away. We stalked him to get as close as possible. We were pretty visible and I’m not sure if they saw us but it was frustrating and a good learning experience for first day elk hunting 😂.

[@CliffGray]

bummer! hopefully it was just an honest mistake by the guy.

[@stevecoad1]

Great video as always Cliff, I agree with all of these points. I'd love to see a video on your thoughts about choosing a backpack hunting campsite. For instance "how far from my hunting/glassing areas is good", "factors on wind and thermals", "avoid/don't avoid benches", etc. Thanks for all the great info, Steve.

[@CliffGray]

I’m doing a few EScouting videos in the coming weeks. I’ll hit in this 👍

[@stevecoad1]

@@CliffGray Thanks, I look forward to it!

[@scottkemp9530]

Thanks for the video. All really good points. Mostly though, messaging respect for others regardless if they are respectful in return is a righteous and honorable way to conduct yourself.

[@CliffGray]

well said. thanks

[@BrettVaughnB100]

I understand and some good unwritten rules .. need to get into territorial outfitters on public land ....

[@1949jeeper]

I knew a lot of these unwritten rules but some are new. Thanks for the perspective and pointing out ways I can avoid being a "peckerhead". So many new and old hunters just aren't aware of how they affect others or how others can affect them.

[@CliffGray]

Thanks Robert. good luck out there!

[@philiptrump8472]

Good video. I agree with a lot of this. Different landscape can change the etiquette some the underlining rule of thumb is to be respectfully of one another and to put yourself in their shoes. Don't do anything you wouldn't want someone to do to you.

[@Oldrush]

I was pushed out of my camp this year by an outfitter. No words exchanged, started unloading their shit right in front of my tent. Horses walking up to my tent. I packed out back to my truck to find they blocked me in with their trailers. I took pics of their plates. I hope their out of state customers noticed their conduct. I hunt solo so I suppose I was easy to bully.

[@texasviking1]

I own land adjacent to public land along a river. I understand what you’re talking about.

[@noah-yi1vy]

Good stuff! Although I’m definitely in the last blood camp although it’s very situational. But if there’s any argument and the other guy is respectful I’ll always flip a coin even if it’s the most benign hit.

[@gregmurphy5014]

awesome video once again cliff 👏

[@CliffGray]

Thanks Greg 👍

[@adamDalrymple-zk6iq]

Hey Cliff thanks for all the great content! I live and hunt in the San Juan’s and am so tired of finding surface shits and TP mushrooms and never far enough from campsites and water. Can you plz refresh the masses on what it means to take a poop the right way in the woods?

[@Kevan808]

New sub after watching you on Rogan. Love your content!

[@CliffGray]

thanks man!

[@TheDespairbear]

Fantastic video. Thank you.

[@CliffGray]

glad you enjoyed it!

[@brucedonovan4858]

Cliff I agree with all you said. I do have a question that my son and have wondered what is proper. We usually go in with llamas and have come upon camping sites that look like an outfitter or some other hunters may have used or set up for future use. Wood piles stacked, hitching posts, raised food poles, etc. But there are no tents or other signs that it is being used at that time. These sites look like they have been used for years, some of them look like they haven't been used in a long time. We often wonder did an outfitter or other hunter already use it, or are they going to be coming to set up within the next week, or is it a last year's camp that is no longer being used. So to keep us from being jackasses, is a site that is not being currently used OK to set up in? Do outfitter typically have their camps that they are going to use that year set up before the season. We do understand that it is much harder for an outfitter to change locations. We also understand that this is their livelihood. Again we want to be very respectful to all the other people out there.

[@CliffGray]

Hey Bruce, Most outfitters have their camps in well before the season, partially to avoid the potential conflict you mention. I use to put up a little sign in my camp spots in Summer - they were given to me by USFS. It didn't say that folks couldn't use the spot but it just gave them a heads up that a camp would be there during the hunting seasons. Helped people plan who were out scouting. Short answer to the situation you mention - if there isn't camp/people in the spot when you roll-in, you can setup shop there. That may urk some folks but first-come/first-serve is fair from my point of view. good luck out there man!

[@dannyjacobs2280]

We packed in, after driving 2500 miles, only to find two small tents sitting exactly where we always camp. We set up a few hundred yards away and decided to go talk to them at dark. It worked out because they were leaving the next day at noon. But my partner was immediately pissed and was going to go to a totally new location before talking to them. Glad we didn't because it all worked out.

[@CliffGray]

Thanks Danny. I should have mentioned this approach. Nothing wrong with it at all and makes a lot of sense. Appreciate the comment 👍

[@dannyjacobs2280]

@@CliffGray full disclosure, we were prepared to pack up and leave if they were going to be there for longer than that. But it was Saturday afternoon when we arrived, knowing that locals usually hunt the weekend and leave on Sunday. We rolled the dice and won. Side Note, killed a 317" bull two days later above camp! Which is a superb bull for that area/unit. Always enjoy your videos! Keep them coming!

[@CliffGray]

@@dannyjacobs2280 awesome! Congrats

[@ROE1300]

👍 Good “rules” review.

[@CliffGray]

thanks!

[@williamchristy3063]

Cliff, another point I'd like to add is if a hunter happens upon a ground blind situation, they should back out and avoid that local area in involved with the ground blind hunt. It falls upon the code of interrupting another man's hunt. Wearing orange is a good thing. It allows other hunters to see you better so's not to interrupt your hunt.

[@johnkillian5232]

Many of these rules are totally trampled on my outfitters and guides. In my short time hunting, I've seen the precedent sent by guides. Diy hunters then react accordingly. Now we have several generations of unethical hunters in the field.

[@wallacejeffery5786]

Right on brother

[@albertlemont5471]

Most folks in Maine go by a rule who puts it down gets the animal.

[@FATBIKEHUNTER]

Great points and great topic. I love the idea of letting the youth claim the elk if it ran close enough for their shot. I always carry some extra Phelps calls to give the youth hunters. They need the stoke because they are the future. A few of our guides in Central WA block the roads which is BS. Ive chatted with them but they are snooty until i bring my bull out. Then they are chatty!

[@CliffGray]

Haha! Thanks man. Like the call idea. I hear the “guides blocking roads” thing a lot. Never run into it myself, nor ever did it… hard to block roads when roads don’t exist 🤦‍♂️ But I don’t see how they get away with it. I’m assuming they get reported, etc…

[@FATBIKEHUNTER]

@Cliff Gray the roads are gated 7 miles before wilderness areas. The guides have a key and pitch camp right in the middle. I have pedaled my bike in for 36 years so it doesn't seem to matter to me.

[@mtbadger1346]

What about when you've been scouting for 3 days before season, and 30 mins before you start out the trail an outfitter rolls in with horses, blows every elk out of that entire drainage that you were hoping to put your senior father on his first elk. Your suggestions work both ways. I've been sh!t on and helped out both in the Backcountry. Never by a guide or outfitter. The ones I've run into think they "own" the public, and are only worried about making money. You seem to be a different breed.

[@Longtrailside]

You beat me to it. Had outfitters come and ruin my day also. They seem to act like they own the land because they have paying clients and horses. The past 10 or so years its gotten really crowded in the woods, and now with e-bikes even more so. I try to go where their are no roads or trails that people can easily ride or get to.

[@CliffGray]

Outfitters should follow the same guidelines. I don't disagree with that. However, I do think that there are times that DIY hunters don't see the whole picture. In the end, outfitters are service providers... their clients are members of the public, hunting with State issued tags. To your point though, guides/outfitters should treat people like that want to be treated.

[@lukecartwright5210]

You Damn Right....

[@Sureshots.]

He is the same as the guys who dumped on you.

[@evanwindom]

@@CliffGray "The whole picture" is that you relying on hunting public land for your income in no way entitles you to anything more than anyone else can expect. Want more than that? Work out leases on private land. Having enough money to pay for your services doesn't entitle another hunter to anything more than anyone else. That's pretty elitist thinking. An outfitter on public land is a public land hunter. Full stop.

[@thepracticalrifleman]

Follow the golden rule. That’s all you have to do. I don’t think you were trying to, but many may take what you said about camping near the outfitter that it should also be emphasized outfitters should have the same respect for the DIY hunters and avoid their camp sites. I know you didn’t mean for it to sound that way, but some may take it that way. Great video!

[@CliffGray]

Thanks man. Yes, outfitters should follow the same rules... as you say pretty much the golden rule!

[@minnil7927]

This actually changed my mind.

[@toddnash789]

Great points! I wish more hunters would watch this as I have experienced almost everything you mentioned as reasons why to follow each rule. I have a question about how the public hunter should handle this situation: You are a public land hunter that is set up in an area (in the trees) that you know the elk move through. There is a trail running through this area and during your time there an outfitter rides in on the trail with a client. The outfitter gets off his horse and pulls out a chainsaw and begins cutting a fallen tree in the trail. You stand up to let the outfitter know you are there and he spots you and ignores your presence. Frustrated, you leave your setup. What would you do?

[@abowhand]

First blood rule! I’m hip to that!

[@travislasley8227]

I agree with everything except rule 1. In my home state it is a written rule the person that makes the killing shot is the one that tags the animal. If the first shot is lethal and the 2nd is a flesh wound the ftrst one tags it or vice-versa

[@CliffGray]

Thanks. In many States it’s similar and it’s a logical approach, theoretically. Challenge I have with it is that these circumstances happen a lot with bunched up, concentrated and running/moving game. In those scenarios, how do we tell who’s hole is who’s? If I single lung a bull… it runs a qtr mile before bedding down, another hunter whacks it in its wounded bed while I’m blood tracking. Was the bull fatally hit? It’s debatable… I totally understand your perspective but prefer the more objective nature of first blood. Appreciate the comment and perspective 👍 thanks

[@TheDespairbear]

Fantastic video.

[@CliffGray]

thanks!

[@jefferywilliams7687]

Cliff. I wanted to share with you that I was blessed enough to get to guide my 13 year old granddaughter on a public land elk hunt in New Mexico this year (2023). On the last morning of the hunt she killed a massive 6X8 bull that the taxidermist scored at 373.75. He has two partial broke points. If he was not broken he would be between 380 to 390. Perseverance was the key. We killed him 2 miles off of road and a canyon over. Shocking watching how many hunters we could see from the cap rock that would never get out off their vehicles and climb over a mountain. We saw 5 bulls in this canyon. I would love to share the photos with you, I just don’t know how. I do not post them on Facebook. I am a big fan of yours. I teach Hunters Ed and it is great to see you pass along your valuable field knowledge. Jeff

[@philipford9209]

Great video, educational and entertaining as usual thanks. On a guided horseback hunt in heavy timber with a good trail system, how far and how much elevation gain would be a comfortable predawn ride? What might be an average mileage for a days hunt? Does it bother the stock to use a red or green headlamp? Thank You

[@CliffGray]

When riding, no light is best. Red light is 2nd. Trusting your horse with no light can be a bit scary at first but you get used to it. Ride length depends on conditions and hunters. I always liked my morning rides 1hr-ish but during tough conditions I’ve ridden 2.5-3hrs in the dark. Horse milage is about 3mph on the trail. A 15-20mi day would be a big day. 5-10 the norm 👍

[@jonathoncounts4599]

I had heard conflicting advise on setting up camp within sight of another. I was told camping closer better ensures I’m not gonna end up camping right where they planned to hunt the next morning. Which do you feel is best.

[@SilverGrizzly]

Killed a bull on a public ridge in 2019. Opening Day 2020 I went back on that ridge and heard a shot. Half an hour later I walked up on an orange clad hunter hunched over a nice bull. I offered to help and he told me he knew this was a good spot because he saw a carcass “right over there” last season. I said yeah, that was my bull. He told me not to get discouraged that he killed a bull because he saw elk all over the ridge the previous season even after seeing my carcass. I helped him out and he cooked up a mountain house (thanksgiving dinner) for me, and a week later I went back up that ridge and killed a bull. You can draw a triangle between his bull and my bulls from that year and the year before and not one side of the triangle is more than 200 yds.

[@CliffGray]

Awesome story man! Thanks for sharing. Good example of having positive contact with another hunter.

[@CarolinaNocked]

Haven’t heard someone called a peckerhead in a long time. Classic

[@CliffGray]

bwhahahaha. I use that daily

[@cormacmccarthy1559]

Most of what you said. BUT, the camping part.... I've met a lot of cool people because of this. Sometimes it's just an understanding. Sometimes good meals, a few beers or a shot of whiskey or two and some good information pays out. And I usually find out their plans so I can stay out of their way. And sometimes if you're in steep country there really isn't too many camping options. But I get what you're saying from an outfitter perspective. I give them the opportunity to make their money. But good whiskey usually makes good friends in this situation. And outfitters will usually give you their boundaries. And usually if you are setting up a day or two before the opening, that's when they are setting up so it's a good time to talk.

[@CliffGray]

Thanks for the comment Cormac. I agree, chatting with outfitters and other hunters the day before season is a great approach. On the camping point, I missed the mark a little. Realized that from a few comments. If it’s possible to talk to the other folks camped where you want to camp… there is always the potential for a solution that works. Like you mention, some groups love to have some nearby company for meals and campfires 👍

[@AdirondackHunter]

First Rule is great cliff. As a younger hunter I had a neck shot being first blood. It was really hard for me to stomach an older hunter who barely hunted got lucky with me pushing my deer to him. Next year I was rewarded with an epic hunt and awesome buck that was even bigger then the one I lost.

[@CliffGray]

👍

[@williamolliges2622]

Holy, crap, rule #2. We scraped body parts off my buddy’s truck getting to a glassing spot that wasn’t necessarily the end of the road. Two spotting scopes set up glassing two different slopes. I was on a set of handhelds trying to pick apart the closer and parts in between. Here come two four wheelers that absolutely had to see the end of the road. We ended up going back down the mountain and finding a spot halfway back to the “main road” where my friend’s son killed his Elk the next morning. I believe we found a repeatable spot, so the whole thing worked in our favor, but it was frustrating at the time. Regarding the theme of the video? Generally being considerate of other hunters? Karma can be a real bitch if it wants, and I want as many points in the + column as I can gather when I’m in the hills. The hunting gods know; they just do.

[@CliffGray]

👍 I agree! Outside of diving into the nitty gritty it’s really just the golden rule. I’m with you on karma, too. Thanks

[@williamolliges2622]

@@CliffGray Well, here we go. I drew a bull tag.

[@CliffGray]

@@williamolliges2622 good luck!

[@Eagle200R]

I love a story with a happy ending!!! ;)

[@karmas.busdriver]

Years ago when I Hunted mule deer in the mountains between my home town of placerville, Ca, & lake Tahoe, other Hunters were respectful, had solid mountain Hunting skills of their own. Out here in Michigan, Your rules will get you shit on 5 days a week on public land & twice on sunday. I've had people use drones to follow me to hunting spots & steel trail cameras in locations extremely remote & difficult access. I've had private land owners run their atvs along their public land borders at dawn & dusk every single day from October 1 ---to gun season. As for Outfitters, I give as good of respect as I'm Given. If I know someone is near me & they were there first, glassing, camping, hunting etc, I'll move on. If they come in on me & set up in my lap, I'll walk into your camp & piss in your camp fire, I don't give a shit. It's like Ice fishing, I don't use tipups, because if you pull up a fish on open Ice outside of a shack, in an hour you'll have more assholes around you than in a walmart parking lot. Loved your video, I haven't heard anyone talking about respectful sportsman conduct in a long time.

[@CliffGray]

Thanks Mike!

[@Bryan-wc3et]

I hunt only private land in Nebraska (family farms) and have first rights to all the land but still have my rule if someone beats me to a spot it’s there’s that day. I hunt Colorado in fall for mule deer and last year there were tons of people. I hunt wilderness area so I go where people don’t and find deer there. Deer aren’t dumb and go to unpressed areas. It’s really pretty simple. Love your videos

[@CliffGray]

Thanks Bryan!

[@terryhemmes6210]

Good stuff man

[@CliffGray]

Thanks Terry!

We have a law where i live in Europe, before going out hunting, you have to get an "OK" from the gamekeeper. You just call him and say "hey, i will go hunt there and there tomorrow" and if someone else wants to go in the same spot to hunt, he will steer them to another spot, to minimize the situation of two hunters shooting in the same area. Or at least he will let you know that the other hunter hunts near by to be careful.

[@almanaylor9117]

Everyone who spends time in the wilderness need to see this! I hate it when people don’t follow common wilderness curtesy. We had a bunch of idiots follow us everywhere we went on my last backpacking trip.

[@CliffGray]

🤦‍♂️thanks for the comment man!

[@alexebeling9366]

First year hunting. On public lands. I walk into a spot and suddenly discover a blind. I left immediately, but not quietly, and now I see the mistake I'd made. I should have left quietly instead of quickly. Also I should have gotten to a spot before prime time, I was about 20 minutes behind. Lessons learned. Overall this seems to be common sense. Sadly not so common. Good video, thank you!

[@nickdondey678]

I wish others would follow these rules. If we all abided by it, we’d all have much better experiences in the field. I was stalking what would have been my first bull elk. He was following a cow and was about to turn broadside. Then a hunter took a 500+ yard shot on a very windy day and missed by about 5 ft. He said he saw me going in on a stalk but I wasn’t shooting so he figured it would be ok for him to shoot….said he also didn’t see the bull that was about 10ft behind the cow. Don’t hunt that spot anymore even though we’ve always gotten into elk in that area

[@CliffGray]

bummer deal! The fact he shot while you were stalking the animal - and he knew you were, bad form! Good luck out there Nick. Thanks for the comment.

[@TheHybridHunter307]

I had an outfitter try to physically bully me off a ridge top glassing spot with his horses.

[@dronus4815]

No shit, they act like it’s “their spot”. That’s who the dick is in that situation!

[@moneyandtimefreedom3352]

I’ve had more problems dealing with guides and outfitters way more than the do it yourself hunters.

[@CliffGray]

Unfortunately that’s not an uncommon experience

[@paulh32042]

My experience last year was a guy flagging me down as I was returning to camp. He knew by where my truck was parked, which drainage I was hunting. The next evening after shooting and missing, same guy flags me down. I told him I missed a raghorn, and gave him a location across the drainage about 1/2 mile from me. Told him we would be back in the morning. Next day, there's the guy. Exactly where I told him I was hunting. He was flagging me as I walked by him across the drainage. The next evening as we were driving out with our elk, he flagged me down again. This time he wasn't as cheerful. He was explaining to me that HE was on location before me and that I should have left the drainage when I saw him on the other side. I explained to him that's why I walked further up the drainage and one the other ridge. He accused my of screwing up his hunt and lying to him about where I saw the elk. I told him I did lie, but his lack of ability was the reason for his failed hunt and I was the only reason he got to see a dead elk that day. I left him with a "you're welcome" and a lesson in keeping my mouth shut.

[@CliffGray]

Thanks for the story Paul! I've had similar situations - Like you said, keeping your mouth shut is usually the best.

[@time_experiment]

Good advice. Seems very outfitter centric though - I'd agree with these rules If an outfitter and client did not camp at my spot If I arrived first as they'd be affecting my hunting experience. I've never seen an outfitter reciprocate this rule. If you're saying outfitters are limited to certain spots due to logistics, this seems to imply that they have rights to certain public grounds, which I don't really agree with.

[@CliffGray]

Outfitters should abide by the same rules. Most outfitters have their camps in weeks before the season… so being first isn’t an issue really. When I mentioned the logistics, I meant it in the sense that if you camp near them… it’s difficult for them to move camp to get distance from you. I should have clarified that.

[@madman432000]

Is 500yds too close? To an outfitter camp. Opposite side of canyon? Out of site can be a short distance or a long ways.

[@Nicoli-bg8lp]

Good common sense info on proper manners. Shame it needs to be explained to some. You always have good insights

[@CliffGray]

Thanks!

[@andersed1]

I would add to number 5. Ask if it is ok. Some people don’t have an issue with it, and it does give people the opportunity to share information around the campfire at night.

[@user-mh5qg5jb7d]

Although I do partially agree with you, outfitters all too often have a sense of entitlement when sharing public land with public hunters. Too many outfitters have a false sense of ownership over hunting areas and camping spots. Your comment that "you don't want to even see another camp within sight of your own" because "it will affect your client's experience" is indicative of this. Like it or not, you ARE sharing the land, and if your client wanted a place all to themselves, they should have booked a private land hunt.

[@alanmeyers3957]

Absolutely correct, outfitting should be a private land only business.

[@TheWVgoodguy22]

I know that this was recorded a bit earlier since you’re still in spear fishing in Puerto Rico. All of these tenets and unwritten rules make a ton of sense. Something that I will keep in mind when I finally get out west for a hunt. I try to be respectful of others space here in the east whenever I am turkey 🦃 or deer 🦌 hunting. I even stay away from tree stands even if they are not in use.

[@CliffGray]

good luck Forrest! thanks for the comment man

[@TheWVgoodguy22]

@@CliffGray thank you 🙏 very much and you are most welcome.

[@shawnkaul4666]

Very good video you had a lotta great points. I will keep in mind when I’m out in the field. But there is one thing that outfitters do out here in Arizona specially, up on the rim is have 10 or 15 of their bodies keeping tabs on a specific deer for a client of theirs. And come opening day they’re running everyone else off of that animal as if it’s theirs already. Not only did they get up on the hill with about 10 spotting scopes find the animal they want and then protest it’s theirs for their client is a bunch of bullshit. I understand everyone needs to share the woods but I was shocked to see professional outfitters conducting business this way. Maybe the outfitter should take some ethical advice from others in the field.

[@CliffGray]

I don’t disagree with you. I’ve guided many, many hunts and never told someone “that’s my clients animal”, etc… I’m sure there are some idiots that have. Now, I have had several instances where hunters shot animals while I was on a stalk with a client… and it was clear that’s what we were doing. I told them my perspective on it, their response was that I didn’t own the wildlife and I could go to hell… obviously much different circumstances but things can get twisted up in the woods sometimes Thanks for the comment 👍

[@kel9796]

Those massive team set ups are not hunting imo. That's just an ego play to collect big money and big racks.

[@ML_Progressive-Jagd]

The first blood is crazy. I live in Germany, and its the exact other way arround. The one who kills the game owns it. Especially when trailing a wounded animal with the dog ("Nachsuche") wich is madatory if you wounded an animal the man trailig it and finally shootig it or findig it dead is the owner (or even more the dog). It would totaly feel wrong here when you claimed the Game that was just woundet by you.

[@MikeFree22]

IMO….Locals and guides are the worst offenders of being generally crappy people. Of course there are exceptions…but this is what I have experienced over at least the last 5-10 years. We all have a home hunting range that gets non resident pressure we have to deal with as well….not a reason to be a dirt bag.

[@CliffGray]

Agreed, in general there really isn’t a good reason to be negative. Guides/outfitters get burnt out through the season and it shows at times. Not an excuse but that’s part of the reason

[@chadmiller699]

3rd Rifle season two years ago, above Buford CO, we had backpacked in the day before and set up camp. the next morning around 0500 an outfitting group on 4 wheelers stopped right by our camp (20 feet away) and dropped off a couple of hunters. I yelled at them, told them that what they were doing was pretty Effed up! They just replied "it's public land". I hope they get a chance to watch this video

[@CliffGray]

🤦‍♂️ that stuff can be frustrating

[@Eagle200R]

That's enough to make a guy want to do the three S's. To bad the drop-off hunters didn't know better or have the common sense to figure it out and have the backbone to say what they were doing is called encroachment and ask to be taken to another spot. Karma, THE GOLDEN RULE... :)

[@Eagle200R]

Hey, I was just kidding about the 3 S's thing you know. I don't want an IRS agent or FBI showing up at my door, just sayin.

[@wolfferguson1293]

9:30 I disagree depending on the country. In open country I can see 5-7km depending on area, so no sight rule of other camp disagree. There is plenty of area in that for both to hunt, especially if there is ridges. But completely agree about camping in ear shot. Then I do come from NZ so our terrain is different. We could have multiple parties hunting out of the same public hut, but everyone talks to so everyone knows everyones plan to make it safer.

[@CliffGray]

Hey wolf, we don’t disagree on the camp deal. When I say within sight I really mean within the same meadow, same small bowl, etc… probably within 500-600yds. Thanks. I’d love to get out your way for a hunt/trip someday

[@diggernash1]

These would be tough to apply back East. Some quota hunts put one hunter per 10 acres. If the weather is good, nearly all of the drawn hunters will attend. Hunters typically show their presence in treestands by using a flashlight. I have went to a scouted tree 1.5 hours before daylight and had 7 flashlights visible. I laughed out loud that day and went back to the truck. That was also the last day I attempted to hunt on popular quota hunts out here.

[@Sarge9096]

When it comes to camping, I always ask. I've meet some great people just by introducing myself and asking if they minded if I camped at the same location or if I needed to move my camp.

[@CliffGray]

Great way to do it 👍

[@christopherchoay9429]

I am new to hunting and these rules are definitely helpful. Last thing I need on my first hunt is being that guy-the Dick fella lol. Glad you mentioned guides traveling trails with pack animals-being a weirdo around the animals can definitely cause some huge problems. I might just treat it like a fishing trip. “Hey Billy Joe, any luck around these parts?” 😀

[@CliffGray]

thanks man. glad the video was helpful. good luck on your first hunts!

[@an0nam00se]

AITA? This weekend we had camp set up, at a little draw up against private, there's was easily over 10 camps higher up on the ridge above us, we chose the bottom against the river away from the others. we left for 1.5 hours during lunch to come back and find a jeep pulled up past our camper to hunt the only spot we had at in our camp. We recognized them from coming down from above. We couldn't believe the audacity to park in our camp and hunt the only access from camp. So we went up regardless and posted up our original plan to. Backs against the fence glassing into public where we'd seen some come down that morning. We saw them 60 yrds from the bottom about half way up the draw, above cows grazing glassing towards private. They started yelling, glassing us with their rifles, stomping, kicking bushes, crackling plastic bottles and left to honk horns and peel out of our camp. Leaving us a note on the vehicle about learning hunters etiquette when they were in our camp, pointing rifles at us, yelling etc

[@vincethewoodlander]

Good info. Would be nice if everyone got this info. Question 1: Is there a common rule for vehicles encountering each other on a narrow forrest road on a grade? Who backs up or gets over when traveling; the guy gowing up or the vehicle gowing down hill? Question 2: isn't it better to get off trail downhill of pack stock versus uphill?

[@CliffGray]

I always went with vehicle coming downhill has right of way. 90% of the time on those real rough roads it’s just whoever can safely make enough room👍

[@CliffGray]

I’ve seen the uphill/downhill thing with stock debated. Personally I think the primary thing is to get up where the stock can see you best.

[@MrWoodsman23]

I agree 100%.

[@AverageGIJoeOutdoors]

My only issue with public land are that locals think they actually own it......... just cracks me up....... I respect the land and the people on it until pushed. If you're a prick while out on public then I will most of the time just smile and be on my way...... but if pushed I will push back.

[@CliffGray]

Yes, the local thing can be interesting. I've dealt with it a bunch. I've also met some great locals that I became friends with. Interesting thing about guiding/outfitting is you can live in areas for decades but the locals will still have a chip on their shoulders when it comes to your existence.

[@dereklinscott8488]

3:10 - This is so important. AND - take some time to look around and make sure your not that guy upstaging someone. Easy mistake to make.

[@CliffGray]

👍

[@NAubc]

Agree with everything CG said.

[@CliffGray]

👍👊