When Should This Support Leave Lane? | Whose Fault Is It Anyways? #8

[@karmakaz1]

Thanks for the feedback Zack! I was the warlock, using Viet Cong jungle guide... Will get boots for sure goin forward... Keep up the gr8 content!

[@borone1998]

good on you for submitting this match. I actually learned new stuff here as a core player 😂

[@joselazo9799]

Yes purchasing boots good lesson learned, lol.

[@CyNaCl]

Or just not rush Midas 😂

[@karmakaz1]

Bros try that midas... after 40min u a God gamer

[@dotaasylum]

@@karmakaz1 If you're farming for 40 minutes, you're not a support. You're a core.

[@OsomoMojoFreak]

Regarding clock getting tome btw - in this game it's fine, but as a dude that plays a good chunk of warlokc, it's really infuriating when the pos 4 takes the time at even XP when they're a hero like jakiro, dazzle, aa - borderline any hero really. The reason for this is that golem early on is literally as strong as 1-2 of their heroes. The earlier you can get your golem on cooldown - the more golems you'll get thats within the period where they're absolute units on the map.

[@LLlap]

This is amazing stuff. By far the best dota content.

[@dollybasheer6792]

I like your niceness. It is something very rare amongst raging Dota players. You explain things so calmly and with so much respect to the player. Dota is complicated and there's so much to learn so we must be forgiving but educate at the same time. Dont ever dull your niceness.

[@mrriptv]

Good video. I would have liked a lot more emphasis on the lack of boots and the Midas purchase. To my mind, the player is doing that build because they don't really understand the role of the supports and is coming at it more like a core that isn't allowed to farm, so has to compensate. It's important because it's reflective of their mindset and intentions. If they can get the mindset right, the mechanics and details can follow.

[@chumbogrosso5133]

Zack! I had a content idea. What if you make a dedicated video on how to interpret the enemy behaviour by looking at the minimap? I've been thinking about it, it is a skill that took me long to develop (I still dont think I'm very good at it, but now I know some stuff at least) and most content creators sprinkle in some insights in their videos but I've never seen a video explaining some possible scenarios, and the "correct" reaction for each example

[@peskycritter79]

That would be super helpful

[@ZQuixotix]

I do want to get something like that! I need to be better about keeping track of examples as I see them and then compile it into a video.

[@stergill7903]

I would like this also, even a full game where he just zoomed in onto the minimap 😅

[@chumbogrosso5133]

@@ZQuixotix plz do! I feel like this type of content is needed since a long time ago but nobody ever does it

[@Mirrale]

I know you’re a nice guy, but I think it would be ok to be a bit tougher on the Warlock so he realizes how bad his decision making was. It’s not like he was a Jakiro actually de-pushing and defending tower effectively while getting gold, but maybe he could have been doing something better. This guy literally sat bot without casting spells or csing. It’s not suboptimal, it’s strictly bad. Combined with the Midas queued up, I’d say he’s griefing the game (not maliciously though).

[@chumbogrosso5133]

This guy probably saw a warlock guide that said you need to slow the game down when playing as warlock because he scales well into the lategame and he took it to the extreme. The no casting spells I think was probably because he thought he would die if he cast upheaval seeing the enemy mid in his lane... I'd say that he felt bad with all the options that he had when he found himself in that situation and chose the least impactfull one, whic happens and is part of learning

[@adamsvensson8818]

I think he was clear enough. No reason to absolutely ruin someone's positive relation to the game, you have to remember this is on display for everyone here aswell so it takes guts to send in your own material to be reviewed in front of an audience.

[@ZQuixotix]

Appreciate the feedback! I realize I do tend to err on being overly forgiving and nice, and sometimes I need to be harder on mistakes I see. I want to be careful with that line since getting too harsh of feedback isn't for everyone. I also I want to keep in mind that Dota is really complicated so I could be wrong or people could be experimenting, but you're right that if it's too nice, then the reality of the mistake might not come across. I'll keep this in mind for future videos!

[@peskycritter79]

@@ZQuixotix I've watched a lot of your videos and I like how you give constructive feedback! I think you make it clear when a player has messed up (like Adam Svensson said).

[@peterjordansonthe2nd731]

You're definitely right in your critique of his video; the problem is he has a bunch of low IQ beta males that say he's too harsh on some people even though he's clearly not. So he's stuck between a rock and a hard place

[@Youmu_Konpaku_]

I've been spamming warlock because of your video and had a win streak about it. And THIS right here is the most painful gameplay I've ever seen. On the lane since drow doesn't really die from full to zero unless he screws up her positioning I'd advice pulling and stack pulling a lot. And even cast W on the phoenix because his spells costs hp just to threaten him Why in the hell would you rush midas? Buy regen items, clarities! Salves! Did you even consider an urn? Smoke in backpack! Get arcanes! Teamfight teamfight teamfight! You're a healer you need to HEAL someone and you're not healing creeps! So why are tou sitting botlane! He maxed Upheaval which basically means "i want to kill someone" that ogre dies with him and drow if he played aggressively enough. At minute 10 when you get your first ulti, you have 2 choices. Stay in lane for a kill or go to enemy safelane and take their tower. And you chose NEITHER Small PSA STOP DEFENDING SAFELANE TOWER, safelane is inarguably the most dangerous tower to defend and enemy could just wrap around behind you with so many entrances. Not to mention it's prone to get pushed by 4 heroes in min15 It's just a useless T1 tower and outposts were made for the very reason that you should abandon your safelane tower, I'm done with people pinging to defend safelane when they could be taking the enemy safelane tower. Sheesh BSJ liked to elaborated it. Also man I'd like to report this guy, stealing tome like that and not even checking the other support, Holy moly. If i was that clockwork I'd be passive aggressively typing in chat and pinging my non-existent hookshot. And if we lose the game you'd be number one on my blame list. 16 min no hookshot is like a death sentence, his gameplan is fuxked his lane is fuxked and his scaling has gone down the cliff.

[@bbear0_o]

I never thought about the safelane tower like that, thanks. Also, would they flame me if i go 2,0,3 on my build? I just came back playing recently so i dont know if its meta

[@dotaasylum]

​@@bbear0_o Depends on play and how the lanes go. If you use Q zoning the enemy such that they can't disturb your core farming, there probably won't be complaints. Most of the time you probably still need heal though since carries like to rely on supports for regen.

[@John-xl5iv]

I found it very useful: whenever I see like big wave coming that is completely free to farm, whether im on this lane or I just watch minimap I type in chat that there is a free wave (a lot of gold sounds more convincing) on top, mid, bot and ping it few times. Usually when I play support of course but if you are pos 3, 2 and you see your carry struggling in jungle or something I think it’s still Pretty good tip towards them. I just hope that I dont bait like stupid tp from them, that they are close enough they will just walk there. Edit: I think that this behavior doesnt leave the space to think that „my support will steal that farm”. This message clearly leaves „there is your farm teammate” type of info. Beside language barrier I dont think there is a way to perceive this message otherwise than that, so they dont care if you stay close to farm or not they will eventually come there if you are not muted and they are smart.

[@thegrandmaster1829]

Match ID - 7075151090, I was pos 5 Witch Doctor. Lane was stable and smooth. 13:26 - Pos 4 Skywrath teleports top causing the Offlane Legion to die. 17:00 - Not carrying a tp scroll on myself when the fight break out top lane + Spectre not haunting to clean up the fight. 18:35 - Spectre again not haunting in a winning teamfight. 21:08 - Legion blinking in for no reason. 23:30 - Spectre again not hauting for the teamfight. Let me know if I was placing my hero in the correct places on the map. I think teamfights could have been a lot better if the Spectre would have helped.

[@ExpertPeeb]

can you make a video where you talk about how to recover a game that's losing? i find often as a 5 when i secure my lane i look over and see the other 2 lanes have lost and now we're getting run down after the tier ones fall. it feels almost impossible to recover a game like that as a 5.

[@chrissyo1156]

So hard to find videos like this. I hope he takes your suggestion!

[@murraymcgregor7829]

Try pushing your lane to pressure the enemy tower so they rotate over, this will give your team space to farm. Avoid fights. Smoke yourself solo and get some deep wards up.

[@GrimOwlForth]

This series is exquisite.

[@chrissyo1156]

I love your analysis

[@CarbonylDotA]

Love this series, great idea.

[@dollybasheer6792]

I have a question. If I am supporting offlane and we're having a tough time (died twice and carry thrice), is it okay to go help other lanes (I'm at level 3 here)? Would that leave the enemy's carry to get the xp and become too strong too soon while I'm not getting the xp as a support?

[@michaelluo8893]

Great videos! Keep em coming

[@Lacertos]

This video just reminded me of the pain that it was playing a core in Herald. I literally had to spam support in order to climb out of the trench, even though I'm a much better core player.

[@obbicusvids]

Hi Zack, Match ID - 7077452014 I was play pos 5 mirana and I think we did pretty well in lane considering my carry picked PA and it was a hard lane. Post laning phase I feel like I did very well, created pressure on the map, made kills happen and pushed out lanes when appropriate. I feel like the team never connected to fight at the right times, especially when we had the advantage or a power spike and I feel that my offlane and mid had little to no impact on the game and built the wrong items entirely. I could have landed more arrows at times in fights and should have gone glimmer instead of my shard but I didn't expect the game to snowball out of control some quickly at the end. Love your content, please keep it up!

[@migzfurry165]

should i play the heroes that have good win rate in my account or follow the meta?

[@pedrolim]

I will send this replay because its similar to this video: Sup 5 taking free lane as team wants to fight Match 7074565635 Around 12 min: I respawn after some feed Ench sup 5 ( 3k MMR ) I play radiant, we have already taken enemy mid and enemy safe and have all 3 towers. I see map and see that my team is all around our jungle, and I decide to walk top (to be TP ready) I feel that our team is being inefficient regarding to map control. I want to go top and pull the wave to gain map control and information. When I arrive top, slark is there but I don't feel comfortable engaging him (I skipped untouchable and regretted it after see slark), so I feel kinda bad staying top, just waiting him to shove wave to shove it back, but I feel that is the best I could do map wise, because all my team is in our jungle. And I feel it's too early to group as 5 without really focusing a good objective (rosh, mid t1 etc). They move like they want to fight, but I think that the location that they are on is not ideal to fight, so I stay top. Eventually a fight break out but I don't think its a good fight (also tp to outpost takes too long and tier 1 was far from the fight). I'm on a "don't get baited by your team mistakes" mentality. We lose the fight I'm not in, and my sniper stays in our jungle. I ping "get back" and 30 secs later he dies, and types "wth is our ench doing?" (translated to english) This all takes about 3 minutes. I don't know if he said anything to me after bc I insta muted him :) Should I have gone to the fight? Even if not going to our jungle to fight, should I have made something better? I still think I'm right Sorry about the long text btw: keep with this series

[@megadobbelsteen]

Match ID: 7068512558 Hero: Anti-Mage Feel like my whole team just kept feeding for no reason. What frustrates me the most is that it feels like I could have easily carried this if I did the right things, but I had no clue what or how. Then my team just keeps running in and dying. My first death at 26:30 was a really bad one. I wanted to go bot but my Sand King was already farming it, so I went to the jungle instead. I even thought to myself the enemy will probably be here and still didn’t listen to myself.

[@armedanddangerous2242]

Match ID: 7076245488 I am the Jakiro, my morph flamed me during laning, i dont know why. Can you teach me what should i do in lane to help my carry. I really want to be good in support role. Thank you.

[@painfactory548]

I usualy play Supports with Heal, so in most cases i dont gank midlane. But when i see my midlaner is low life i some times go to mid lane and heal him.

[@xtianebernal]

WL got 2 sods and never left his lane and had the audacity to submit this clip. Good lord have mercy on the thoughts running in my head.

[@leftsock6090]

Love the instructional content. However my guy needs to get boots...

[@skittering]

hey, I think I have a good one :) match id: 7077164926 I'm the Spectre Horrible lane: me + dark seer 5 vs bristle 3 and sniper 4. I had a lot of trouble getting last hits and had to make two trips back to base. By 15 minutes I'm the lowest net worth on my team (I didn't realise this at the time, but game definitely felt pretty bad). After 5 minutes of straight farm I'm still lowest net worth 😢 I'm not sure I could have done much differently. I got zero help from my support and was taking so much harass. These are my thoughts from the replay I think my biggest thought is I should have done a lot more defensive creep aggro (e.g. 1:15, 1:40, 2:40). It's not a skill I'm in the habit of 0:00 First item mangos potentially a mistake with dark seer support? I didn't realise lane was going to be so passive 1:40 - 2:40 I ran out of tangos and didn't ship more out for a minute 11:15 missed a good haunt opportunity (was too busy being annoyed by dark seer) 15:40 should have gone to the wave instead of the jungle camp 18:00 should have tp'd bot for creeps that's all I got, after that I get carried by the rest of my team so not too interesting. Maybe if I did lots of defensive creep aggro I could have come out okay? I'm not sure, if that doesn't work lane is unwinnable.

[@plethorajenkins5910]

Pog vid

[@Delacrow_l_Chawngthu]

Honestly warlock got some bad plays but that drow farming pattern is way too bad, at 13 min(vid) she should already be near t2 but she was not even near. Same goes for the earlier timing, its kinda hard to play sup effectively when carry is always too far to shove lane or is farming away from lane. This is how it usually goes on my game warlock leave lane drow would be coming but that waste time for her, one wave get killed by tower and she may only get two or so creep if she is lucky but with enemy missing she cant shove, and will idle around waiting jungle respawn. A good carry is always easy to play with and make me look good because i dont have to cover for his mistake which forces me to make additional mistake on top of my own poor judgement.

[@begliamanov7276]

Hi Zack, I will be extremly happy if you could told me what I do Screwed up. - 7165448535 - Lich (Position 5) - in my opinion there are 2 heroes Alchemist, who has denied his OWN aegis ans PL whos was afkaing time after time. Please, explain what we have done so bad or wrong. I was watching your videos and starting improving and was even able to calibrate from crusader 3 till legend 3 at once. My I do feel, that I am missing something essential. But I am not able to see it. This match will be very interesting for you, because we were winning at the begging but it is end up with our lose aftee 60+ minutes. Thank you very much!

[@cookiepirate4471]

hmm good content.

[@WhopperCheeseDota]

99% of supports just want to afk and get carried. This guy is the perfect example.

[@grassyclimer6853]

i dont know man laning with this warlock looks miserable between the items and skill build it looks like a troll. no fatal bonds, double sage, no shoes, rushes midas poorly because hes buying wards and smokes instead of getting it done the wards are useless because hes laning out of position not getting cs for long enough to almost catch up to mids xp and he doesnt use smokes. I could be wrong but this so looks like someone that tilted and did bad on purpose and is looking for an excuse.

[@gracedae]

the tome thing is 100% why i spam buy it at 10 mins (as 4 or 5). unless i'm partied with the other support who has a better 6 and i know they will use it, it's mine to get to 6. i cannot STAND when someone closer to 6 takes it and doesn't use their ult until after i'm 6 naturally. last game in fact 7076792113