Where Did The Term “Toxic Masculinity” Come From?

Richard Reeves breaks down the history of Toxic Masculinity. What is toxic masculinity? Where did Richard Reeves discover that the term Toxic Masculinity had come from? Is any masculinity not toxic in the modern world?
#masculinity #mentalhealth #men
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[@ChrisWillx]

Watch the full episode here - kzbin.info/www/bejne/jmKxaJp3bsh0Z8k

[@yohaizilber]

There is no such thing as toxic masculinity but just toxic behaviour. Adding the term masculine to it is to make it sound unique to males. Anyone male or female can be a terrible person just like anyone can be a decent person.

[@PlanetShlorpian]

The women are wonderful effect likes to trick people into thinking women can never be terrible people.

[@DadsCigaretteRun]

I have a liberal friend that told me “woman can be toxic masculine too” so…it’s just toxic right? He didn’t know how to get out of it

[@DadsCigaretteRun]

@@SweetBerryWine19 sadly no, very hard headed but I’ve made some leeway with him. Nothing he would say publicly but chipping away

[@zero1188]

Its used on men women are not attracted to

[@NatetheGr891]

I see how this would be a valid point with a lot of the issues labeled by “toxic masculinity,” but I still think it has its specific uses for the actual behavior that is being correlated with someone’s view of masculinity and or subconsciously learned from male culture (like the psychologists examples originally). I do see now how it’s just unproductive to use the exact term, but I think the concept still is valid with very specific issues men face.

[@GrowthMindsetChannel]

“Men are often fed this narrative that masculinity is inherently toxic but then they go out into the sexual market place and it’s the guys who are stereotypically masculine which tend to be doing better when it comes to dating.” ~ Chris Williamson 💪🏻🚀

[@omegads3862]

Stereotypically masculine is never a bad thing wonder why should it be, strength, courage, ambition, cool mind in trouble are all good qualities to strive for.

[@GrowthMindsetChannel]

@@omegads3862 I totally agree

[@mgancarzjr]

It was always about finding a tool to denigrate boys and men. It was never about having a discussion regarding where and how the natural tendencies of males can veer into harmful behavior.

[@lordofgingers]

It's a term I honestly don't take seriously. I know who I am and what I stand for. That's good enough for me.

[@freesk8]

I'm a marketing person. That's the way I think. And if you look at the phrase "toxic masculinity" from that lens, it looks this way. "Toxic masculinity" is not a campaign intending to discourage the worst behaviors men sometimes engage in. Instead, it is an attempt to link, in the minds of the public at large, the concepts of toxicity and masculinity. It is an attempt to make people believe that ALL masculinity is toxic.

[@MC-ze8wj]

You're both right, it just expands so that at this point the term gets thrown around so much at men who are just being men but have unpopular opinions or aren't PC enough. Think of all the great men that get called this every day; Carl Benjamin, JBPeterson, MattWalsh... It honestly feels like I should be proud if I raise my sons to get this term flung at them because it simply means they are principled men who aren't spineless doormats yielding to whatever the mob says to yield to today.

[@anewagora]

It's a manipulative term so misandrists/SJWs can pretend they aren't targeting men, but masculinity. And say they are only talking about the "toxic kind", when they are actually calling masculinity toxic, and using it as a cover for men. This is an adaptation of feminism as the counter movement against it gained real traction for the first time in the 2010s.

[@vitality4004]

this is facts its the same as saying how bad catcalling is all it has done has made people who never catcalled scared to even talk to women and hasnt stopped the people who catcall stop catcalling at all. alot of things feminists do dont fix anything same with gRape the people who are gRaping know its bad so trying to enforce the new language on every1 else isnt stopping anything as the ones who do it wont stop

[@Zayindjejfj]

It's weird because trying to ask a girl out or start a conversation isn't even catcalling. I'm pretty sure catcalling is making sexual remarks to someone in passing. Most men don't even do that to women they're interested in.

[@Travvv94]

If you don't approach a woman because someone told you cat calling is bad then that's on you, it's two different things.

[@veganvvarrior]

It is not the same at all. And people who claim they don’t dare speaking to women because cat callers get called out are themselves to blame. It sounds like some incel shit where women get blamed for men not having the social skills to approach women as people.

[@thrasherdave1428]

It's just like affirmative consent. It puts us normal people in the same category as rapists while these scummy assholes are completely unfazed by all that

[@CarltonLewis]

Dope! Straight to the point. Thank you. I’ve been asked to write a Hip Hop verse about this and I wanted to make sure I had a clear understanding of what it was.

[@olit1234]

It's like modern progressives got together and said "Right, how can we frame our issues in the most divisive way possible ? Then when people get annoyed we can call them ist-phobes and feel righteous about it."

[@tantalus9306]

"Toxic Academic Ideas"

[@4ndyr0g3r50n]

As Thomas Sowell once said some ideas are so ridiculous only an intellectual would believe them.

[@geonwilliams]

A key issue with the phrase “toxic masculinity” is that the meaning is not clear, perhaps intentionally. Does it mean toxicity that arises in men, whatever the cause, or that there is something toxic about masculinity itself (which men as a group are impliedly responsible for)? The former is conceptually reasonable - you can separate toxic behaviour from its causes (which could be social factors, prior abuse or neglect where women as well as men may have had a part to play). The latter is an unfounded conclusion and seems a lot like victim blaming. This twist allows people to use the term in a slippery way - directing unfounded blame while pretending not to and failing to address root causes.

[@TheDweeb002]

It’s meant to be vague on purpose. It’s how vvomen communicate 90% of the time

[@dw6317]

I agree. It’s not helping anyone.

[@anonony9081]

How come there's never a discussion about toxic femininity?

[@mgancarzjr]

It's misogyny to criticize the behaviors of women in any capacity.

[@Tushar_Talwar_09]

@@mgancarzjr according to who?

[@mgancarzjr]

@@Tushar_Talwar_09 the people pushing toxic masculinity.

[@CleverGirlAAH]

@@Tushar_Talwar_09 i think they're playing devil's advocate.

[@memastarful]

We are all human beings. Not that men and women aren't different but if we could only recognize the common denominators we both have. For example the desire to have value, respect and no harm. Seek to grow wiser in understanding rather than digging in the heels of pride.

[@Tushar_Talwar_09]

Want a medal for that virtue signalling?

[@memastarful]

@@Tushar_Talwar_09 smiling 😃 🤷‍♀️

[@Tushar_Talwar_09]

Imagine typing "we are all human beings" under a video talking about nefarious efforts to villify masculinity. Women just can't drop an opportunity to make everything about themselves (white women especially are guilty of this)

[@littleoceandrop]

Saying “toxic masculinity” is like saying “toxic health” it is trying to get dirt on a PERFECT mental program. the feminine mental program and the masculine mental program are the absolute best there is available for each of the two sexes. Saying “toxic masculinity” actually reveals lack of mental health of the person saying it.

[@MinusTheGreatSubtractor]

For those wondering, Toxic masculinity is a term coined by Shepard Bliss in the 1980's. It was developed by men of the Mythopoetic Men’s Movement to help support other men and to understand the toxic traits when the idea of being traditionally masculine man was rigidly enforced. When rigidly reinforced, it resulted in boys being emotionally repressed and violent. Heres a real example of the impact of toxic masculinity. Mike Tyson was interviewed about the passing of his 4 yr old daughter. He stopped the interview when he became emotional. He said "I need to grow up and stop crying. I need to be a man". If a man doesn't allow himself to grieve the passing of his own daughter due to the expectation of him not being a man if he did, that is toxic masculinity. Toxic masculininty is a very specific thing. The term has been coopted by bad acters and weaponised by those that have no idea what it means or how to define it. Its been so politizied that it's no longer a useful term to be using, even if its used correctly. Toxic masculinity is not referring to all masculinity and is not inherent to it or to all men. Most men never experience the rigid expectation of what a man is because we aren't in the 1900's anymore. Majoirty of men actively avoid doing that because we know better now. Saying there is only toxic behaviour/toxic people is an oversimplification because feminine toxic behaviour is way different than masculine toxic behaviour. When you are studying ways to support humans in being better, you need concepts to help understand the behaviour you are trying to change. People get this wrong all the time, but its completely understandable why. In order for things to get better, we need to be accurate and specific.

[@activatekruger446]

I have a HUGE amount of toxic masculinity saved up from no fap. Any takers??

[@abhisheklingwal7961]

Pure rage flowing through you👍.

[@SurfyStories]

Im on week 2 and I can already feel the toxic masulinity growing inside my testes.

[@RteenFX]

@@SurfyStories thats the demon we want kings !

[@tec2592]

There are toxic men. There are toxic women. And everywhere in between. We are smarter than this, people.

[@Zayindjejfj]

That's why the "toxic *whatever word*" is a bit nonsensical. It's all trying to associate negative qualities to a person's gender. It's just shitty people being shitty.

[@memastarful]

Well spoken 👏

[@MickeyMichaels348]

There is nothing in between men and women. We are smarter than this.

[@gloriascientiae7435]

@@Zayindjejfj Yah well, usually when people say 'toxic' the mean cluster B personality disorders, worth looking up sometime. When people say 'toxic', I just ask about what is going on and then usually its extremely narcissistic people they're talking about.

[@TheDweeb002]

No we’re not

[@zero1188]

No such thing. Same things that are toxic masculinity are what women chase after. Truth is its only toxic if she is not attracted to you

[@zero1188]

@@SweetBerryWine19 abusive, controlling, manipulative, narcissist, or cheater. The 5 categories a woman ex will be in. And you are only those things when you break up. When you was together she didnt care

[@Zop_]

thats exactly why those behaviours still exist. they get rewarded and thus reinforced

[@RteenFX]

facts

[@RteenFX]

U killed it we need to make men strong again

[@oriongear2499]

If someone, whether it be family or someone in the streets, walked up to me and said "Your masculinity is toxic!", I'd punch him/her and say "I hate that term with every fiber of my being!".

[@0doublezero0]

What is this guy talking about? The term toxic masculinity was coined by Sheperd Bliss from the Mythopoetic Men's Movement to describe the archetypical behavior of men and rigidness of masculinity in the past. Not sure where this guy got his info from?

[@aristocraticrebel]

It's basically what Nietzsche called the "blonde beast". Namely the martial virtues of the aristocrats and the warrior class.

[@aristocraticrebel]

@@gibememoni Yes, but not as the Nazis meant. Nietzsche described the Aryans as the Proto-Indo-European warriors who became one of the founding stocks of all European populations. The "blonde beast" also refers the blonde Homeric heroes like Achilles, and the image of a lion.

[@MattyT200]

Men especially primarily get their happiness from self development, as a man that comes from being masculine

[@NotaThing13]

Weaken men. Make them work at a corporation for the richest people in the world paycheck to paycheck paying taxes while hating women and themselves. Make sure they are not strong enough to rebel. It’s what the people who run the world want.

[@JoseMorales-lw5nt]

Sounds like a fancy way of saying DEPOPULATION to me! Get the masses to hate each other so much that each passing generation produces less and less children until we become modern day dinosaur exhibits to space aliens!😂❤

[@mike4179]

Misogyny is another one. Most people using this term clearly don't understand what it means.

[@andrewbruskin6923]

Some of these comments are missing the point. Some aspects of masculinity are toxic, such as being unable to share feelings/emotions. This leads to higher suicide among men. But this is just one example.

[@vairagyaupadhyaya5172]

no

[@Rithious]

He did not go back far enough. It was originated in the 1980's.

[@robbenvanpersie1562]

no it doesn't exist

[@freesk8]

Kinda reminds me of starting the conversation with white people about racism by accusing all of them of being racists. It is a losing opening gambit.

[@markverhoeven7518]

Stop talking the answer is no. On the other hand, toxic woke does exist.

[@randomnameindeed]

Woke is already toxic, it's like saying water is wet.

[@vitality4004]

no simple

[@eroberto]

Thank you. It's really some men having a toxic relationships with their idea of masculinity and not that masculinity has a toxic side. The masculine and the feminine and everything in between are not toxic as they are all part of our life force energy.

[@ASKpq]

Masculinity doesn’t mean man. That’s a standard error. Women have masculinity too.

[@FilterHQ]

Just in the lobbies of GTA5 and Call of Duty...lol

[@anthonytaylor9232]

As long as Bliar exists, I would say YES!

[@SueFerreira75]

Yes, we need to address the challenges men are facing, but we also need to stop the denial, face reality, pull our heads out of the sand and accept the chaos men reap on us all. Saying this is only "some men" is not adequate - this is an issue for all men and a major contributor to their current psychological state. 2011 stats in the US - Men constituted 89.5% of murder convictions. Men constituted 80.4 % of persons arrested for violent crime. Men constituted 98.9% of those arrested for forcible rape Men constituted 87.9% of those arrested for robbery Men constituted 85.0% of those arrested for burglary Men constituted 83.0% of those arrested for arson. Men constituted 81.7% of those arrested for vandalism. Men constituted 79.7% of those arrested for offences against family and children. Men constituted 77.8% of those arrested for aggravated assault Men start wars and commit atrocities. Don't comment and deflect from this reality! There is a lot of work to be done.

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

Half of women's deaths by murder are Intimate partner violence

[@seancooper5140]

That looks a lot like context dodging cherry picked statistics to justify a pre-existing agenda, because a similar list could be constructed of bad things women do, good things men do, and good things women do.

[@Zop_]

delusional grandma

[@wong8987]

I am not sure if u purposely left out the most important statistic, or you are just ignorant about it so nvm I will educate you 5% of people commit 90% of the crime Now go project your hate somewhere elsse

[@t.fwingproductions3636]

These guys clearly have no idea what toxic masculinity means

[@DSKMedia]

I understand we need to have a broader mindset today with all the genders etc. Just in the same way, if a man acts like a man and if a woman acts like a woman, we cannot say this is incorrect. It’s a bit hypocritical saying we need to promote more gay rights etc but that we also can’t promote being a man? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@thegraciefighter102]

There are some toxic aspects of masculinity as there are toxic aspects of femininity. It’s a conversation we should be able to have even if the term itself has been devalued

[@Neonomide]

Simply call it toxic forms of masculinity. Yet toxic as a term is far too broad and graphic to be much use besides derigatory populism. Reeves’ term mature vs immature is immediatedly better & more nuanced.

[@Ambusher1st]

No.

[@PunksterOS]

No