Which Of Simon’s Discs Is Better?

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[@Tsxtasy1]

The day I started getting my Hex to flip felt really good. Idk about sea level, but where I live the Hex starts turning at 300’+ power. So, attainable

[@TMRaven]

Hex definitely has some stability to it depending on plastic. The Neutron/Soft Proton Echoes I've found to be more of that Mind Bender kind of straight out of the box. I'd love to see your impressions on the Echo! Z Buzz with a reliable 0/1 flight with tons of forward penetration and Neutron Echo for a solid -1/1 flight are my workhorses. Also on the topic of beginner discs, I let my sister borrow my Glitch because the other understable discs I gave her were stalling out. The Glitch consistently went straight for her, and even on its nose-up shots, it just fell out of the sky forward! She was putting massive work in with it.

[@martin_wilson81]

I never threw midranges very much until I tried the Lizottl at max weight. Total game changer for me!

[@aklevin]

I have a C-Line MD1 and a C-Line MD3. Both are more understable than everyone else's seem to be. The MD1 is, like you said in the video, quite round, and I haven't figured out how to grip/throw it well yet. The MD3 is fighting with my beat-in Compass for that flip-to-flat slot, and the Compass fits far more comfortably in my hand. I bag both. The MD1 is between my Compass and Fuse, and stays in the closet for now.

[@JZMartinez]

My MVP Electron Matrix was my trusted straight mid this year since January. As it beat in, it got straight and I leaned on it more and more as my form improved. Then it started to turn this September. When my KC Pro Flatop Roc gets too flippy, the Electron Matrix should be ready to fill the spot. As of July, my Proton Matrix is my new go to straight mid. Hoping this one hold that spot for the next year plus.

[@joebrannon8843]

Totally agree about the origin! I love my Midnight Prowl 2!!!!! Phenomenal woods disc!!!

[@natemaas1982]

I’m just starting the video.. I hope you come to the right conclusion.

[@neverlayup]

Hex?

[@andrewkriek7666]

Hex hands down

[@weedmanbrandon]

Mind bender right?

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

How did I do? 😂

[@neverlayup]

​@@ApolloDiscGolf I think you are 100% right in your assessment. I love my hex but I would not recommend it to a beginner. I find that my Envy's are more workable then the hex. I use my hex for a straight shot or slow arcing hyzer. I am really looking forward to James Conrads new mid that is in between the hex and uplink. The fission hex might be more understable but I have not had the pleasure of tearing that out yet. For newer players I have been recommending the uplink and most have been having great results.

[@ColtonFulk-DiscGolf]

I’m a big zone guy and these have started to grow on me

[@neverlayup]

Wow those boxes sound awesome. If i lived in the US i would be getting one.

[@MegaLaban12345]

The Buzzz is my main mid, but the hex is just lovely. I think I will slowly transition over to the hex as my buzzzes become overly beat up and lost.

[@pathape]

The weight of a midrange makes a big difference in terms of stability more so than any other type of disc in my opinion. A max weight Hex is pretty stable and I agree isnt a beginner midrange. So many people say discs are understable but they are using lighter weight discs. Also, spin and OAT play a HUGE factor into the flight of midranges. I used to turn over a midrange a couple years ago when i couldnt throw near as well as i do now, and now i can throw the same buzzz or md3 330-350 feet without much turn. A pro or advanced level player can throw the same disc without much turn and on the same angle way farther than an intermediate or lower player thats getting more turn on the disc.

[@10GritSandpaper]

I like the way you referred to the stability problem as the "Buzzz Problem," but that problem might also be a blessing in disguise. Working with a stable mid can teach you to learn backhand and forehand from the beginning, which is something I wish I had done. And there aren't many better discs to learn forehand with than the hex. At the same time, the easy solution to the Buzzz problem is a lightweight Hex. MVP seems to be the best manufacturer at offering lightweight discs in all their plastics - not just fission. A 155-165g Hex isn't going to have the Buzzz problem.

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

But you could also argue that an understable discs is better to learn a true, smooth forehand than a stable one right off the bat

[@CasualRelief]

I have a set of buzzzes for this line up. An SS, a old flippy buzzz that will do that late drift, a new strait buzzz (got from you - sparkle glow) with basically no turn or fade, and then a buzzz OS. In KC I'd say 85% of what I end up throwing is a buzzz or a teebird/eagle.

[@ks-pg5sh]

You could also try a lighter weight Hex for beginners, which dials back the stability a bit. (Pick one in the 165-170 range and it'll have a similar flight to the MD1.)

[@jasonedens3778]

I have the: Caiman (Star) - Buzz ESP (pretty straight) - Mind Bender ( a little understable) - Rollo in that slot.

[@shroder1]

I know this is a Simon disc comparison, but I'd love to see what you think of the Compass. I threw buzzz's for quite a while, but the Compass is what I wanted the buzzz to be. Just as fast and long, but I got the flip up that I hoped I would get out of the buzzz. And a VERY similar feel in the hand. Plus if you a gummy opto one it's so nice!

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

Yeah it's been a while since I haven thrown a Compass! I will have to try that one out again!

[@slickgoose2009]

This has been my experience with these midranges as well. Pretty much different discs or slots in my bag, with the mind bender or MD1 the main workhorse and the hex for when I need security of the stability. I also feel like it is pretty similar to my experience with the mako3 & buzz's. Side note this does bum me out because I seem to prefer the mind bender to the swirly MD1 or star/g* mako3's and I do not like throwing hard to replace discs. But I just swapped the mind bender back in for the swirly MD1 and instantly noticed the difference. I know they are pretty close but the results surprised me :/

[@daniellarrabee9741]

Hey man great video. I just grabbed a new s line DD and I was curious how you think it compares if at all to your beat in wraiths I like the flight and I am just barely cresting 375 ish on a good flat ground full flight throw just to put in perspective. I think this will be my bomber or a bomber for me. I have been throwing terns for my distance

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

i haven't had a chance to throw a DD yet! That and the Wave are both discs I need to try for those bomber Wraith shots!

[@weedmanbrandon]

Swirly s-line MD1 is hands down my favorite mid right next to my beat in color glow iron samurai MD3

[@eddiegaytan236]

The s-line anything I have been in love with.

[@brosa1212]

I can't wait to try a detour. My hex is too stable at times

[@kimmomatikainen1843]

Have you tried Echo? I am interested to see how Detour differs from Echo since Echo is little less stable than Hex.

[@dcus55]

Honestly I bag both the Hex and MD1. I think it’s all about the disc weight with MVP/Axiom discs, to fly to the flight numbers. I’d like to see you throw the Crave and Insanity in weights like 157, 162, 167 and 172.

[@mattm8291]

I agree with this as well, I absolutely love my159 gram Wave. the Max weight MVP molds I own are just beef.

[@neverlayup]

Do they make lighter weight hexes? I should totally get one of they do.

[@buhrj66]

Also anyone looking for a straight hex or buzz out of the box try a latitude 64 claymore. 172-175g nice and straight out of the box

[@kimmomatikainen1843]

Claymore is less stable than Buzzz. It is between Buzzz and Buzzz SS. Claymore is great, but not really a replacement for Buzzz due to lack of the stability. I would put Claymore as very little less stable than Hex, but those are pretty close. I'd add Echo to that comparison. MD1 and Mako3 are not far away either. All my Claymores are Frost line, but it should be between Opto and Gold in stability. It is a great midrange and good for one disc rounds as well.

[@tigelegit]

160 fission hex is where its at for beginners. It's the straightest hex of all mine.

[@superblitz]

when i try to get new people into the game, the first disc i put in their hand is something like: a VIP air Tursas, Uplink, peach, Fuse

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

Those are all great options! The Origin fits right into that lineup really well!

[@McSlobo]

Don't agree at all on Buzzz stability. Yes, it'll usually fade a bit but that's it. A bit is 0 or 1 and it's on so the fade is 1. It does not crash out of the sky, never does that. Glides a bit right but that's just physics, and 80m is rather easy to achieve with it, so the glide is on point. Nowadays I just have fallen out of love with Z plastic feel - maybe my discs are just old and have become harder. My FLX Buzzzes feel great though but they're a bit more understable feeling.

[@mikethomas5451]

I agree

[@A_Sense_Of_Purpos3]

dx and kc pro rocs for me. Bag like minimum 6 of em. can throw em for basically any shot up to about 250, after that im swapping to a fairway driver.

[@discjunkiesDGT]

Great review, Hex looks like a Kaxe Z

[@kimmomatikainen1843]

Old Kaxe Z's are a LOT more stable than Hex. The last run of Kaxe Z is almost straight. I guess it is because the mold was wearing out and didn't produce original Kaxe Z anymore. I suppose that is why they stopped making those and made new Kaxe to replace Kaxe Z. Unfortunately new Kaxe is slightly less stable than old Kaxe Z.

[@readguthrie1241]

One interesting thing about the origin, whether or not it’s beginner centric or small hand friendly, is that it is a smaller diameter mid. Most mids are bigger floatier discs and the origin is the same as say your putter. Just my two cents! Also the Fuse is definitely up there in the conversation of “forever” discs. I go back and forth between fuse and origin.

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

Yeah the Fuse is GREAT!

[@meister-t]

great beginner discs are Stig and Mana

[@Falascoa]

Honestly, flight numbers for me I've always used them as more of gauge. More of a representation of how the disc may fly once it gets beat in.

[@arhshields]

Wild theory - the 2-step overmold process reduces the effects of shrink, which is why MVP discs tend to be so much flatter than other discs. Also they may be a touch more consistent because of this. IDK, I make YT comments, not plastic flying objects.

[@josephkebbekus5780]

I think the biggest factor is MVP leaves discs in the mold to cool longer than most companies. They've talked about how this helps reduce variation between runs which is why they do it, but it means no dome (unless they make the mold itself domey which I suspect is what they did with the time lapse)

[@brickchains1]

I agree that buzzz fly more stable than adverse on average. The ones that do flip arent the good ones, better to beat a stable one in for the god glide. The disrespect to the aurora /qms.. perfect neutral midrange for all levels

[@mpbx3003]

I really think the new James Conrad Detour is going to be the one for beginners from MVP. Not crazy flippy like a Paradox or Uplink, but a touch more forgiving than the Hex for a slower arm. I love starting people with the flippy mid and neutral-to-understable mid as a pair, before adding the straight mid as they progress. [I think Fuse, Claymore, Compass is an awesome trio for that, but I'm a little biased towards Latitude.]

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

Yeah the Detour looks solid!

[@kimmomatikainen1843]

They already have Echo between Hex and Uplink. I don't know how Detour fits compared to Echo.

[@teeeeeeeemu]

The new Detour will be the disc for beginners

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

Yeah that one looks good!

[@MrSTAYUP33]

glow/eclipse hex is the perfect slightly overstable mid imo.

[@midzyjerm8133]

hex beats in under stable. i’ve never had a buzz get worked in flippy. they just get more stable.

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

I have some flippy Buzzzes and they are really nice!

[@bgul4000]

Echo knocked the hex right out of my bag

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

I haven't tried the Echo yet!

[@kimmomatikainen1843]

@@ApolloDiscGolf Echo is little less stable than Hex. Close to Mako3/Mind Bender MD1.

[@johnshepherd6925]

The takeaway here, grab yourself a Star Mako3. Its perfection 😂 (probably a bit cheaper too)

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

Yeah, Mako3's are solid! This is basically a Discmania Mako3... But I feel like Discmania's S-Line is even more understable than Innova's Star lineup relative to their Champ/C-Line counterparts! But there is definitely a smaller sample size with Discmania's new S-Line...

[@johnshepherd6925]

@@ApolloDiscGolf fair enough 🤔

[@Loudberg]

Thanks a lot for the video! And sorry! I have to throw the Lat64 Claymore into the discussion. This is MY workhorse in that spot and it seems to be widely overlooked... Happy throwing!

[@brekkoh]

How does this compare to the emac truth?

[@prattacaster]

I was an Emac Truther for a while. Id say the are very similar to a Hex, at least the Lizotte Hex I have. The Hex is in the bag right now; one thing I've noticed is that the Hex has taken forever to beat in. The Emac Truth beats in after a few rounds and will start to give a little turn. The Hex I have is still pretty resistant to turn but doesn't fade as hard as the end either. So, the Hex overall, just uses less left to right space. They both go really far. Hex edges it as far as comfort.

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

They are very similar! I would say that its definitely easier to find an understable Emac Truth than it is a hex!

[@calebdyer6332]

ive never thrown a hex but I love the emac truth. from what ive seen the emac start a bit more stable and beat in to fly super straight. They beat in fairly quickly at first. eventually and emac will become a dead straight disc with virtually no fade. I don't think you could go wrong with either. I think ill stick with the emac because I already had a stockpile and they are super easy to find and affordable

[@Darthyeetrous]

I would agree about the origin being the better of the 2 for beginners.... Wait a sec...

[@discjunkiesDGT]

MD1 alll day!!!!

[@joshwarner3926]

Searching for 2022 DDO dyemax Ricky wysocki disc. Holla

[@A.M03]

What has Apollo disc golf thought us ? Discmania>Mvp or any one else.....

[@mikedimatteo5094]

I knew he'd say the Discmania disc was better right when I saw the thumbnail pic.

[@drewg3087]

Mind Bender way better. Fatter, better rim, more glide.

[@tonydavila2606]

Fuse >

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

The Fuse is solid!

[@jonwivccc7926]

hex is the best because discmania won’t sell their best disc as stock disc .. gyro has taken over my disc golf bag .. discmania dropped the ball with simon and releasing disc ppl want ..

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

The MD1 is stock now!

[@jonwivccc7926]

@@ApolloDiscGolf send me the link to a stock metal flake c line md1 .. i’ll be waiting .. stock price not 80$

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

@@jonwivccc7926 If you are wanting the disc as a stock disc, the MD1 is a stock disc... The metal flake ones were a special run for Simon, which I am sure they will do another run eventually. But that's pretty normal for special plastics! Like you can't buy a total eclipse Hex stock... that's only a special edition Lizottl' one, so it's not just Discmania that does that! Heck, MVP didn't make the Glitch in an eclipse plastic outside of their mystery boxes. So you've got to pay $130 for one of those! 🤷🏻‍♂

[@jonwivccc7926]

@@ApolloDiscGolf i see why you only have 7k subs .. hard to like when you start talking bs

[@HonduDan]

Throw both of those discs away, pick up a Midnight Prowl 2 and be done with it!