Which PC handheld is the 𝙁𝘼𝙎𝙏𝙀𝙎𝙏? [Steam Deck, ASUS ROG Ally, Lenovo Legion Go...]

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Have you ever wondered how FAST a device can recognize an input? Here we have the Steam Deck OLED, Asus ROG Ally, MSI Claw, Lenovo Legion Go, and the Aya Neo Flip DS, all competing in various LATENCY tests.
See the results here 📈 docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
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[@insertnamelol]

It's crazy how the Legion Go has the lowest latency with its detachable controllers

[@ramrodbldm9876]

How is that crazy? That sounds Normal what a tard

[@Randomness662]

I 100% would have gotten one if it had Oculink

[@ethanvalentine4299]

clicked on this saying I don't care what's the fastest which one is the smoothest.. soo i was pleasantly surprised to see this was about latency and input delay rather than another video about highest frame rate. Thank you Bob.

[@Sethfilms]

This is for the algorithm. This video is good and important KZbin. Please love Bob so we can get more unique and entertaining videos like this.

[@alexstancil]

Any handheld is the fastest. It just depends on which car you put it into.

[@cth0nic668]

WELL WELL WELL. This sounds like a challenge to all the aviation nerds of the world to me lol

[@alexstancil]

@@cth0nic668 it might be 😏

[@vir.b_10]

you evil evil man

[@zaraquinn]

bullet train babyyy

[@alexstancil]

@@zaraquinn HELL YEAH 🔥

[@FoxbatStargazer]

Steam Deck and OLED also use native portrait displays, their monitor lag is likely similar to the GO/Flip.

[@julienmelnick]

This is such interesting info. It really makes me love the Steam Deck more and more as these types of videos come out

[@patogordo1385]

Bad battery

[@2greenify]

​@@patogordo1385steam deck had the best battery time of all handhelds

[@charliefen]

@@patogordo1385 most of these have bad batteries 😂 that's why I tinker with the settings so much or play less demanding games (or play my Switch, as that still seems to be the best, not being a PC handheld) if I'm out.

[@superamigo987]

​@@patogordo1385But it has the best battery though?

[@patogordo1385]

@@charliefen handheld must have at least 8h battery while playing games or it is completely useless. Buying handheld to play connected to a cable is very stupid imo

[@shadowedfate151]

He said ass 4 times

[@TynologyGaming]

Input latency is my main gripe with streaming services and devices. Sure, for some games it doesn’t matter. Unfortunately I don’t play those games 🫠

[@Nucleosynthese]

I really enjoy the attention you have been giving to PC handhelds. Would love to see some PC content.

[@crestofhonor2349]

I couldn’t tell the difference in input lag between the Legion Go, Ally, or Steam Deck personally. They all felt the same

[@RandomGuyComments]

Same! Except SD, haven’t tried it

[@itsquiwi8780]

depends on the game urs playing its been well past proven that lower input lag can help u greatly in comp games

[@kennymccormick8295]

​@@itsquiwi8780Was that English?

[@excadrillo99]

Just means you have a low tolerance for input lag, not that it doesn't make a difference

[@crestofhonor2349]

@@excadrillo99 it all depends on the games I’m playing. Many retro platformers I can’t play with tons of input lag like Sonic and Mario

[@CPUjunkie]

You can disable the touch screen in the Windows device manager. Just find the hid for the digitizer entry and disable while running the screen test

[@JFTSwiertz]

You could probably mod a little LED to a controller so the light turns on when the button is pressed, have a control controller for most of your tests, maybe an 8bitdo or gully so it can connect to all your devices?

[@SolidSt8Dj]

If someone could convince Bob to do that, I'd personally love to watch that video. Not sure if he'd be up for it or not.

[@systoxity]

Good info, ty

[@AwkwaBear]

It’s crazy you did this now because I literally just made a short clip two days ago and counted frames to show my friends that a GPD win4 has 3 extra frames of latency compared to a steam deck OLED. I was thinking why hasn’t some one examined this for all the handhelds I was playing another crabs treasure and realized it felt significantly more responsive on deck and decided to look into it

[@JeskidoYT]

Yay more coffee tips with Bob!

[@AndreaFrancoise]

He needs more coffee, everybody does

[@sbfb242]

Any chance you'll do other videos such as controller reviews or tv upscalers again?

[@Collin_J]

I just upgraded to OLED for my gaming monitor and wow. It's uhhh... wild. And mine is used and a first-gen.

[@Loving_Awareness]

Latency wise or graphics wise? Positive wild? Lol

[@paperandpavement]

​@@Loving_Awarenesscolors, response, smoothnes. If you go OLED its hard to go back.

[@zaks7]

@@paperandpavement What about burn-in?

[@paperandpavement]

@@zaks7 I went with Corsair and they have a 3 year warranty so im happy with it. I feel like if i get 3 years outta my monitor ill be happy with that. The quality is a big jump up which makes it worth it.

[@danielvelkovski3156]

@@paperandpavement Went from Oled (lg cx9) to mini led & mini led way better. Never going back to Oled again especially for gaming.

[@N3RDCULTURE]

It’s obviously the Miyoo Mini + ;)

[@blackhatfreak]

Which is garbage

[@N3RDCULTURE]

@@blackhatfreak I thought it was a retro handheld 🤓

[@theviniso]

Good choice, though I'd go with the Anbernic RG35XX H, personally.

[@N3RDCULTURE]

@@theviniso just as great of a choice 🤝🏽

[@jacobechevarria3141]

I’d love to see you do a handheld comparison off of your user experience if you haven’t already with the legion go

[@cannon2004]

love the video. next time label the graphs with what your measuring. :)

[@ItsVorbs]

Is it just me or does bob actually look wider when he is on the desk LOL

[@thetechdude1]

New wulffden video just dropped 🔥

[@kennymccormick8295]

No shit.

[@devilsnevercry7]

This was very kewl, if it’s possible, consoles would be a fun test too😄👍🏼

[@RandomGuyComments]

Been using the Ally and Go both on a 120hz Sony X85K model tv with the stock ROG hdmi adapter. Hadn’t noticed any difference except stutters with the Go. 99% of the time I play competitive fps games with mnkb wireless and controller wireless and wired

[@olddadagamer]

I was experiencing the same thing as well in nearly every game I played. Given the old drivers that Lenovo provides, I decided to side download a current driver. Device runs games much better, better fps, I stopped crashing n the Finals and Avatar. stuttering stopped all around 4 me in apex.

[@claytonreisner9872]

Would love to see a input lag video of PSPlay vs PS Remote Play on the ROG Ally and other devices.

[@onepiece190993]

Love your man, this is what i care the most

[@williamperez4393]

When will Bob open “THE WULFF DEN”? A chill coffee place people can go to for delicious coffees and also play retro games like arcade machines or emulated tv stations n stuff? I’d love it

[@lieutent2654]

I don't know about the tester you used for TSL, but LDAT has probes that you could use to wire into the mouse switch, or a controller button pad. It's extremely invasive and requires some soldering, but it would give you super accurate results. I know you're more aiming for general data and the "feel" of it so what I'm saying is kind of an empty point... BUT! It is something I think not only myself, but others, would be interested in, Steve!!!!

[@Darkstar301]

I love all of these steam deck fandoys it’s just hilarious 😆 I have the system and I like it too but even I know it’s not all of that LOL

[@HiTechLoLife]

He with the fastest fingers controls the fastest handheld. Also new Wulff den video time to set some time aside!

[@Raymanpfpgoeshard]

Weird ass question but what's the CRT in the background in 13:11?

[@lorddeecee]

How’d you fix the stick? Also did you fix Wills steamdeck?

[@Dracossaint]

Okay, I keep posting the answer to this and it keeps getting deleted. Look in the same place that you found out about it not working.

[@patogordo1385]

Nice job

[@NateFord]

I think if you used a controller with mechanical buttons, like the Razer Xbox Ultimate Whatever v2, you’d have had an easier time with measuring your controller input lag. Instead of going by sight with the button’s shadows, you could have gone by the sound of the button actuating.

[@Chardan001]

I love my Go

[@jinx20001]

It would be interesting to see how pixel response times play a role... we know OLED pixel response is as close to true 1ms as you can get in displays and this lends itself well to no ghosting, particularly in darker scenes while VA panels often are the worst in this regard, especially in darker scenes which take longer for the pixels to respond... IPS falls somewhere in the middle, Asus claims the rog ally pixel response is around 7ms but that will be grey to grey change which is typically a best case scenario, darker colors would be a longer response. be interesting to see where MSI and Lenovo fit in. Pixel response often plays a critical role in how the display looks from a visual standpoint, going from VA to OLED would be absolutely mind blowing to most people but IPS often hits a nice middle ground, just being fast enough for it not to be very noticeable but yeh... a test comparing blur/ghosting in dark scenes would expose a slower panel and perhaps be useful information as to which is visually the most impressive, Oled would be the clear winner but it has other inherent problems to that instant change which is judder.

[@ZaberfangX]

I wonder with your test how do other handheld input lag are window or steam os on the same hardware.

[@TREEKO978]

Does input lag even matter if it's less than a frame?

[@richardhunter9779]

All latency adds up in the end.

[@Rspsand07]

Refurb lcd is the way to go unless you have infinite budget. 350 cad aka 250 usd. Its 30% the price of the competition and not that far apart. I got a used Ally for 400 cad compared to my 350 steam deck, and I'm not sure id pick that if that were their real prices. But the real price gap is more like double for the ally at which point i really wouldnt recommend it as the go to to anyone.

[@SebSeb-yo]

I wonder how you'd have sorted them by feel

[@ActNasty5]

Always reach out to your buttons and see if they are depressed 😫

[@DankerTVTimeCapsule]

I didn't know why bob didn't use a 2230 ssd composed of a windows build on steam deck so at least the test compatibility would operate correctly.

[@blackhatfreak]

Stead Deck for the win yet again 💪💪💪

[@jcc4543]

Can't play Dogma 2😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@zippolighter4903]

Stead deck

[@smidlee7747]

@@jcc4543 Sure I can. This is not like consoles where you are bound to use a single piece of hardware. You can play any game on these handhelds by remote play and/or GeForce Now.

[@patogordo1385]

@@smidlee7747remote play is lame

[@smidlee7747]

@@patogordo1385 Not for me. I've tested it and see no lag between the display connected to my PC to my Steam Deck. Others have report similar results. My son just realize he could send the image from his laptop to his TV remotely. He thought it's cool to game on his couch. GeForce Now will depend on your location and how good your internet connection is.

[@WilloDavis]

it’s a Blackberry

[@madmyc6836]

The steam deck also has a native portrait display.

[@Kng__Wzrd]

On a Sunday!!!

[@jamesleuthauser9336]

Matte screens are way better for their perceived clarity in a multitude of lighting intensities and directions

[@conchobar]

I can't disagree more. Matte screens add dither to the image inherently making the image less clear. It also scatters the output light across the entire screen reducing total contrast ratio. All a matte screen does is smear the reflected image across the display. The best anti-glare techniques actually darken reflections. Look at expensive camera and telescope lenses to see such techniques. It's been also used on exexpensive TV displays since Plasma. Matte screens are just a cheap solution, not an actual effective solution.

[@jamesleuthauser9336]

@@conchobar that's all fair points and you can feel free to disagree. All I know is when I'm in some government office with unbearable overhead lighting, or in the sun, I'd rather look at dither than a mirror. And maybe it's being raised in the CRT generation but my eye doesn't even register a dither on edges, my brain just ignores it. A laptop or handheld is meant to be useable in as many environments and conditions as possible, and a matte screen is just simply more useful

[@ezrabeltz]

2:17 bros doing that n64 mario party strat that ruins your palm and again at 6:49

[@Owy.]

Polling rates are upto 8000 Hz now on some keyboards and mice

[@V3ntilator]

Legion Go gets new drivers any day now and they worked a long time on it.

[@kamilquithe3462]

Legion Go has Hall Effect joysticks so this can be the answer? Lately I played Painkiller and Shadow Warrior 2 on Legion Go and Steam Deck and Go sticks are great, I even played most of SW2 with them (since gyro sucks on Go) :D

[@veggiebroth5542]

Video starts at 6:35

[@kruger2635]

Steam deck is only cheaper in a few countries...Ally z1 Extreme can be bought cheaper than the 64gb Deck in my country aswell.

[@kewlztertc5386]

Steam Deck is also portrait display.

[@jponce1983]

Steve Buscemi would've remembered to unplug it

[@DabstiX]

No legion go?

[@TheDarkestPhoenix]

Can't you dual boot windows on Steam Deck if you wanted?

[@FlightTVyt]

I’m interested in if the proton layer is adding any input lag to the games/tests on the Steam Deck. Does anybody know? I’d imagine a translation layer adds some input lag, I’m just at the 9:50 mark in the video though, so he may still discuss it.

[@andrewT23]

@kei’sretrogaming did a cool video on how to overclock the controller on windows handhelds

[@wcisnijstart]

Legion go with its screen estate still wins in my book.

[@HaloCowboy17]

Just curious, why didn’t you test the switch with these?

[@uglybad4]

Probably because it isn't a "handheld PC," besides it would've been absolutely *steamrolled* by every other device on display here lol

[@IcyTorment]

As an engineer, I was a little annoyed that you referred to the round-trip latency as the input latency, instead of distinguishing input latency, output latency, and round-trip latency. Otherwise, it was a really good video on a topic that doesn't typically see this much of a deep-dive.

[@AndersHass]

Nice to see open source latency testing device, otherwise most reviewers have gotten one from Nvidia, so hopefully this will mean you dont have to be at the mercy of Nvidia to do these tests. Then hopefully it can also be expanded to better support more setups than none touch screen and mouse input. Does it use older DirectX? I am pretty sure Intel ARC has no issue with latest DirectX (12) where its issues are with older APIs (so DirectX 11 and older and opengl etc.). Anyway hopefully the latency measure device can use Vulkan to more easily work with various OS’s where DirectX is limited to Windows (and Xbox).

[@Jokerwolf666]

At the end of the day if your controller is wired through USB you are going to have virtually no lag for the most part.

[@foldionepapyrus3441]

If you really want to do something on the deck that SteamOS doesn't support properly just install windows on it - will not be exactly a fair test to the normal user experience, but it does give some indication of the hardware's performance, and when a test does work under Linux you can compare the two for good measure. I've befouled my deck with Windoze briefly and found it fine, with a few nice features that are not (easily/mainline) supported in Linux like Wifi-Display just working with no effort - but oh was it nice to be home again (I've been Linux only for so long now I find windon't almost impossibly annoying).

[@WulffDen]

I just figured with how janky Windows can be for it, it wouldnt be a fair test

[@foldionepapyrus3441]

@@WulffDen Fair enough, though my short period of testing out of curiosity before going back home says Windows just works with no more jank than Windoze always has on any other unusual form factor, or frankly any system at all these days...

[@RetroCollects1]

W new wulffden vid

[@rafcodes]

The graphs are awesome but they are missing some key elements like axis values and units. With all that said, it is awesome to see these more in depth graphics in your videos.

[@kamren5145]

I agree Having some Axis Labels would be nice so we can have a reference of scale.

[@rafcodes]

We data people are a bit pedantic 😆😆

[@nathanieljones8043]

Modern lcds can be as fast as CRTs they just don't make em like that.

[@smidlee7747]

LCD monitors are digital so it takes time to process the information while CRT were analog. Thus CRT are in real time but analog takes a lot of bandwidth compared to digital. People learn about lag of LCD when they went from playing Guitar Hero on a CRT to a LCD.

[@nathanieljones8043]

@@smidlee7747maybe I wasn't clear there are workarounds and they now lcds with said workarounds lcds don't have more lag. Console made for crts have more lag on monitors not made for them.

[@kitt3]

28s

[@GumbyPokeyandWut]

Hi, if you're going to be including analysis like this in future device-based videos, PLEASE include both units and scale on your graph. Pretty much any signal can look erratic and noisy if you zoom in enough, it helps to understand the scale for this reason. I hate having to pause frames to see what unit each line is because your graphs don't have them until you mouse over it. Some folks might say "if you care about units/scale then just look at the data spreadsheet" and that would be 100% true, but then why bother watching the video if I need to plot my own data. Since you mentioned it, Gamersnexus always includes units/scale when doing comparisons too.

[@agualiqui3131]

But let’s be honest oled is a mid gen refresh even though they’re hiding it

[@nmbr1slayer]

Steam deck is great for what it does....it shouldn't be on the same category because of limitations. I love my GO because with tweaks it offers so much with an absolutely beautiful screen.

[@NFreddplayz]

Steam deck and rog ally is my choice 😌💯

[@denisruskin348]

The one that can run path traced Crysis.

[@xxlee1019]

Lenovo might be using PS2 instead of USB for input

[@X862go]

i prefer the ally atm.

[@wulffdendad8957]

I am sure the Mighty Zim could have used a cup of coffee #wulffdendad

[@Dracossaint]

I mean, i can both spoil it and watch the video.

[@Map_of_Your_Head]

no zim, no trade subscription! >:(

[@youraveragedillon5958]

Btw. It's the ally

[@thejbcrazy]

At low volts I bet it’s the steam deck

[@BlarinDragon]

if the xbox controller is a 125 polling then a switch joycon is a 15 polling rate

[@WhiteWolfTechGaming]

Bob, you're probably the only KZbinr that I actually enjoy watching your ads/sponsors because of how much effort and production you put in them. Not to forget the comedy lol. Also thank you for all the content you create.

[@PapaZigg]

Faster doesn't mean better. I chose steamdeck oled over rog ally and legion go because of steam os optimization on linux. Windoes doesnt have a dedicated os for handheld. Its buggy af and with all that raw power and speed, it means almost nothing without optimization.

[@srvuk]

A very interesting and useful discussion, which right now, tends to indicate that there is no universal and cohesive testing options to determine actual facts. There is one aspect that can be taken into consideration, albeit the one with the least factual credibility, feel. How people generally feel about the way that latency actually affects their personal experience will likely have more gravitas than some statistical numbers. A comparative example may be the question of what the maximum refresh rate of a monitor that the human eye can detect. In tests, under the right conditions, apparently, test subjects were able to perceive things at up to 500Hz. Ergo, if this was true, the idea of a 1000Hz screen may seem like magic but if the reality of the human experience does not or cannot match the scientific numbers, then they become moot when considering actual human experience, which, when they are within human limits, will still show variation that could generally help bolster or undermine claims or commonly held beliefs.

[@agualiqui3131]

1:05 bwhahaha

[@Lycan3303]

Steam Deck OLED is best girl !!!

[@hcoberdalhoff]

I think you mean the "quickest" not "fastest". Hm.

[@Bulbmin64]

i love when people actually use the legion go, i feel like its all just the ally and steam deck and it makes me sad and feel like people hate the go.

[@kennymccormick8295]

It makes you sad? 😂😂😂

[@Bulbmin64]

@@kennymccormick8295 no like it feels just weird that people leave the legion go and never talk about it even tho its the strongest for now

[@conchobar]

The Legion Go is simply going through its first 6 months of growing pains like the Ally and Steam Deck went through. I agree it should get more coverage. Id like to see more channels dedicated to the Legion Go, and I dont even own one. I own an Ally. The more competition, the better.

[@Bulbmin64]

@@conchobar i own a legion go as a main pc and i really dont get why the only reviews just hate on it as much as possible when it was out for like a week, i hope more people know about it and it actually gets popular

[@yo_mono]

2:27 that right there is why Windows is a bad handheld experience. I got my ally and installed Linux on day one

[@awakenedcrowl]

Couldn't you just have installed Windows on the Steam Deck?

[@jat9926]

What are you gonna do when the handheld pc market bubble bursts and they stop coming out so often with new ones?

[@tauqeerdarve4876]

I doubt it's gonna stop anytime soon. The market is evolving. I hope innovations in battery tech shows up.

[@jat9926]

@@tauqeerdarve4876 battery life all depends on power and performance demands buddy I doubt battery tech will change anytime soon.

[@smidlee7747]

@@jat9926 I don't think the PC handheld market is going to burst since they are not that successful the begin with. They are a niche product that doesn't require games designed to run on them. PC handhelds are no where as successful as the Switch which requires games to be made for it's hardware. Switch is still outselling all PC handhelds put together.

[@awakenedcrowl]

EDIT: Yes, I have noticed, that THAT kind of "fast" is not what this video is about. But I had this thought before even clicking the video and now just wanted to leave it xD I've honestly come to the personal conclusion that I do not care which is the fastest. Even the weakest of the modern Handheld PCs is strong enough to play almost any modern game at reasonable speeds. So to me, it really comes down to reliability, overall build quality, any my personal biggest concern: Input Methods. And there, the Steam Deck OLED just wins for me.

[@michaelmodernsonicfan5341]

gpd win mini

[@supac1]

Legion Go is the best

[@gameheadmail]

Input latency to Humankind from Tesla.

[@TheSummerCoast]

They are all equally slow. None of them have legs you silly

[@ajiesuarez]

Wuuuuuuullllfffff

[@danhex]

Legion go ftw

[@MichaelTranAussie]

Is there some distortion/stretching in some of the talking head scenes for anyone else… I mean rather, anyone else seeing this? It’s not every one.