Which Rogue-Like Does Boss Fights Best? (Rogues' Gallery)

Enter the Gungeon, Hades, Dead Cells, Risk of Rain 2; all great games, but which one does bossfights best?
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Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
0:53 4th Place
6:10 3rd Place
14:29 2nd Place
20:22 1st Place
25:00 Patrons :)
Music in order of appearance:
The Rain Formerly Known as Purple: By Chris Christodoulou - CA: Gearbox Publishing
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Prisoner's Awakening: By Valmont - CA: Motion Twin
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Scourge of the Furies: By Darren Korb - CA: Supergiant Games
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Thermodynamic Equilibrium: By Chris Christodoulou - CA: Gearbox Publishing
You're Gonna Need a Bigger Ukulele: By Chris Christodoulou - CA: Gearbox Publishing
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Enter the Gun: By Doseone - CA: DevolverDigital
Behold the Boss Eater: By Doseone - CA: DevolverDigital
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Shop: By Toby Fox - CA: Materia Collective
Earthbound background pattern provided by:
www.gjtorikian.com/Earthbound...

[@pikmonwolf]

The follow up video on secret bosses is out now! kzbin.info/www/bejne/gn7Eo5l5pq6pnMk

[@dark_fusion1288]

OK but in Tisiphone’s defence, if you fight her enough times she will eventually and I do mean EVENTUALLY call Zag by his name.

[@pikmonwolf]

I know, I was getting that as I recorded her footage and I didn't want to show and spoil it, so it was in the way lmao

[@Forestxavier20]

Z- ZAGREUS! "That's it Tis!" "MURDERER!" "Yknow, you got my name right, we'll work on more words later"

[@great_hedgehog8199]

Such great and funny character development, in such an unexpected place. I guess this really highlights how Hades is first and foremost an incredible story game, and only so happens to also be a pretty wonderful rogelike

[@jackmcawesome7087]

One thing that's seriously great about the hades fight is the way that his abilities mirror your own- He also dashes to get around, he has the same stab and spin attacks as the spear does, and those skulls he fires out are literally bloodstones! It says in the codex entry that hades taught zagreus how to use them, and the effect it applies when you're hit by one- boiling blood- is the same name as the mirror upgrade zag uses to deal extra damage to those hit by his own bloodstones. Even if the summoning is a bit of a thematic mismatch, the rest of it is absolutely perfect in my eyes.

[@pikmonwolf]

Oh that's so cool! I never caught that those skulls were bloodstones. Makes sense, after all they stay lodged in your for a bit before popping back out.

[@BlacksteelForge]

I don't even think there's a thematic mismatch, because everything he does matches perfectly with who he is. He might've once been a young upstart like Zag, but now he's in charge of *all* the souls of the damned. He's a king. It makes perfect sense to the theme of the game for him to summon minions to do his bidding. It's what he's been doing the entire game, after all.

[@misirtere9836]

@@BlacksteelForge Not to mention that Zagreus eventually DOES unlock the ability to summon. It's fairly restrictive, but you can summon some of your closest friends to aid you at key moments if you help them out enough. And then Extreme Measures 4 comes around and HE DOES IT TOO.

[@marigolden_mariposa]

It's not a thematic mismatch at all though.

[@noahthompson4690]

​@@misirtere9836 and his trinket gives you his aid whitch turns you invisible too, so you do have all of the same abilities and it makes sense that hades can just use his own greater call powers and summons whenever he wants

[@enlongjones2394]

One thing I like about Hades’s minions is that it makes certain boons useful even in the boss fight. Some abilities are great against groups of enemies rather than single targets.

[@pikmonwolf]

I do like that in theory, but I don't think it's worth how it ruins the flavor of the fight.

[@enlongjones2394]

@@pikmonwolf that’s fair enough. I suppose I never thought too hard about him being able to bring shades up there. I guess I figured that if anyone has the authority to do that, even briefly, it would *have* to be Hades himself.

[@nublord5648]

@@pikmonwolf What about Extreme Measures version of the bosses ? Or does that fit into secret bosses instead ? edit: i didn't realized you mentions it

[@pikmonwolf]

@@enlongjones2394 I'm sure he has the authority, it just feels so out of character. The whole game he insists nobody can leave the underworld and will not accept help in dealing with... certain things. But in the bossfight he suddenly gets help by bringing wretches out of the underworld.

[@aikenlau2500]

I think the entrance to the underworld, while technically on the surface, is still part of Hades' underworld/kingdom and so he's able to summon wretches to help- one of his prebossfight dialogues on the surface say "The heavens and the seas belong to my brothers; but know that you are still in my domain." I think it's kinda like the River of Styx situation in the epilogue in which Charon can still ferry souls (and Zagreus without dying) on it, being an intersection between the living and the dead. Also since Zagreus carries different boons and weapons every fight, it is my headcanon that the mooks are summoned and Hades goes invisible to scout out what Zag is using at the beginning of the fight without getting hit in the process, hence why he doesn't summon in the second (except EM4) and third phases as he's already got an idea of what to expect. Also what are peoples' opinions on the optional Charon fight? I kinda like it, although it pretty much gets cheesed by the shield because his attacks are mostly easy to block. Wish it showed up more frequently, though.

[@immortal-_-clix1229]

The dead cells ones is legit just a skill issue lol

[@pikmonwolf]

I said that one of my favorite bosses was Dracula, whose the hardest overall for sure.

[@Valentine-Best-of-all]

Nah, I play dead cells a lot on 5BC and still I take no more than one hit (if any) in a boss fight. As already said, skill issue

[@Trinity_Jayde]

True

[@eggmar7232]

Fr

[@ED-gw9rg]

Dead Cells has a skill issue in general, what's your point?

[@Waffletigercat]

Both Cannonbalrog and High Priest are limited to a maximum of two disappears per fight. This change was implemented in a patch like two years ago. Thank god for that, too! But yeah, Enter the Gungeon is just so, so good.

[@pikmonwolf]

Honestly, I think it should be locked to a single vanish per fight. It is good they changed it from infinite amounts though lol.

[@somebodyforever8742]

Nah, it's crap

[@lal6005]

skill issue lol@@somebodyforever8742

[@prettyradhandle]

@@somebodyforever8742 the contrarian

[@somebodyforever8742]

@@prettyradhandle by sure😎(🤓)

[@Val-ud9fn]

I'm pretty sure Hades going invisible and throwing minions at you in the final bossfight is supposed to be a commentary on his in-game personality

[@pikmonwolf]

The thing is, throwing minions at you is very out of character. He is fine delegating but hates asking for help. Calling backup to the surface feels very out of character.

[@Rai-D10]

@@pikmonwolfhe doesn’t “ask” for help, he forces it upon these souls, and about him bringing them to the surface, he, a along with the other gods, tend to be hypocritical in mythology

[@kfchickeniscool8060]

@@pikmonwolf he does what he wants🤷🏽‍♂️

[@marigolden_mariposa]

​@@pikmonwolf"hates asking for help" where did you get this??? I'm seriously so confused by this whole thing. 😅 He commands all the underworlds wretches to keep you out the whole game, this is no different. Him summoning wretches to help fight makes perfect sense, both from a gameplay and story perspective. Bizarre.

[@TheReZisTLust]

​@@marigolden_mariposaPretty sure he scolds the wretches for failing every time he summons them to defend his loot too 💀

[@cln4m36]

Fun fact: in risk of rain 2 if you stay in a shade grandparent’s nova (the here comes the sun attack I like to call it) wont even tickle you because it is a practical sun. And i dont mean behind cover I do mean a shade. So your character can be in line of site for the attack but because you are in somewhere darker you wont get damaged.

[@the24throguecannon]

here comes the blazing, amazing miracle sun and it's blazing on, and so we blaze along, on until the day is done. (my friends prefer to call it "praising the sun" but I'm with you on this one)

[@pikmonwolf]

I mean that is still cover from the attack, you're getting something between you and the source of the attack. It's a super cool way to do it though, looks great visually.

[@morayrider7112]

Couple things for Hades 1. It feels like you expect every boss to have lush dialogue options amongst the already vast amount of dialogue and I don’t think it’s a big knock for a couple bosses not to have that. 2. Never felt the need to lock in Demeter, yes her phase for Theseus is difficult but not impossible. Aphrodite is notably difficult as well. 3. There is Charon as a boss fight but it’s a secret so you got the excuse not to mention him. 4. Hades is literally a god of the dead, him RAISING the dead mid fight still fits thematically as much as mithrixs architect role. Would agree with gungeons placement but yeah I think your hades evaluation could be fixed up a bit

[@samb9645]

Yeah I felt that the criticisms were very nit picky

[@screamingcactus1753]

His point wasn't whether or not he's able to bring the dead to the surface, but whether it fits his character and motivations. Hades doesn't want ANYONE making it to the surface, he's not just stopping Zagreus, so while he COULD bring the dead to the surface, it doesn't fit his main motivation to keep everyone in the underworld.

[@TheBeings]

i also feel like not talking about the heat sysyem and em4 (making the fights much more difficult) was a little unfair to hades

[@Akaza877]

​@@screamingcactus1753if a minion kills Zagreus Hades can kill them and send them back to tartarus, asphodel or Elysium

[@marigolden_mariposa]

​@@screamingcactus1753They're just minions fighting for him, it's not as if they're actually free and can leave😅 he says that this is still his domain until you leave that door. Him summoning enemies to fight you makes perfect sense both from a gameplay and story perspective.

[@LinkDing]

Demeter being more difficult with Theseus makes sense and is probably intended. She only appears at all after you've beaten the game once.

[@ColeWendlerC17]

Not technically true, she appears after you first reach the surface and fight hades, you don’t have to beat him (at least I didn’t) for her to appear. I also found Aphrodite to be harder idk why though lol.

[@Yunahsky]

That hand of the king roast was personal

[@pikmonwolf]

He poisoned my water supply, burned my crops, and delivered a plague onto my house

[@EggZu_]

mithrix' fight gets even more fun on eclipsw 8, he's faster and has half reduced cooldowns so you really need to know how to avoid him or ways to trivialise the fight (tentabauble) and every hit permanently decreases your max hp and it's just so fun

[@zewps9502]

Also if you're into mods for games, the Umbral Mithrix mod is a crazy challenge and really fun

[@EggZu_]

@@zewps9502 last time I tried umbral mithrix it just through a bunch of stuff at you and was just a move speed check. I remember artifact of the king being quite fun though

[@zewps9502]

@@EggZu_ he definitely can feel like that (especially cause RoR2 characters all have their own movement abilities), but I feel like generally he's a boss who goes back and forth between an angrier Mithrix that requires good timing with movement abilities (dark souls joke here), and a bullet hell boss that's all about keeping calm and being able to read the arena. He unfortunately can be a bit much for characters like Cap who don't have a dash or slide or anything like that, but if you have like wax quail I feel that it can partially make up for it.

[@SaturnProductions]

Very good points about the health and master round systems in Enter the Gungeon! Loved the video

[@pikmonwolf]

Hey thanks! And yeah the Master Round system is really brilliant, and EtG is the only game in the list where perfecting bosses is more fun than fruatrating.

[@Iranofideaswhilewritingthis334]

Execpting Gatling Gull. He sucks ass no no hit on floor 1

[@pikmonwolf]

If you wanna see more of this, make sure to give it a like, comment, all that good stuff. Originally I was going to include Slay the Spire, but then it bugged out and wiped all of my data... twice. I then considered Inscription as a replacement, but that's best played blind and I didn't want to spoil it. In the end, I think looking at 4 instead of 5 games works just as well.

[@innerophstudios4013]

Could have done tboi

[@lowlydovahkiin8084]

​@innerophstudios4013 aye. The Binding Of Isaac has got some really good fights in my personal opinion.

[@diananer]

You think you could make another one of these videos but with different rouges? You know, slap the spire, the binding of eye sack, atomicrops (if I’m not the only supporter of that game now), Risk of rain 1 (If Risk of rain returns comes out than do that instead of you feel like it) Exit the gungeon, Skul: the hero slayer, I could go on because I fucking love rouges

[@SKtasaras]

If you were to make another list with different titles would you consider Curse of the Dead Gods? It a lesser known roguelike but I think it's a pretty well made one!

[@TrickyJebus]

Where is Bullets Per Minute??? The first boss experience there was soo fuckin satisfying

[@tootietooter5984]

Great to see Mithrix on the list. Con lentitud poderosa is already a great theme to end your run (And pretty emotional on the lore side of things), but to have a boss come out of nowhere and just tell you "Beg." really makes him a love to hate character for me.

[@ExistentiallyDreading]

Goofy take

[@ExistentiallyDreading]

His shit talk goes hard, and honestly makes perfect sense for the kind of being he is in lore.

[@zewps9502]

I also love how unique mechanically he is, all the other bosses (even Voidling), are basically just big slow dps checks that look unique but are very simple to fight. Meanwhile Mithrix first spawns and stands up slow, but the moment the cutscene ends he just charges at you and it's instantly adrenaline pumping. He's so much more fast and aggressive than the rest of the game, and it really feels like that "dark link effect", where the enemy you're fighting is powerful in the same ways you are. I also just like how damaging he is and the fact that he doesn't summon any minions beyond a single pause phase, it's again something that no other boss in the game really does and it's such a good challenge to end a run on.

[@screamingcactus1753]

@@zewps9502 He continuously summons minions in his third phase, it's not just the second phase.

[@EmberOldAccount]

One Step From Eden has really amazing, mostly fair bosses, and I think the best boss in that game is Violette omg she is such an amazing boss❤

[@pikmonwolf]

I've not played it, actually I know basically nothing about it. So I'll have to take your word for it.

[@Laevatrien2]

Violette's fight and her theme combined just blows every other boss in that game out of the water tbh

[@meepoffaith6153]

her attacks sync to the background music

[@maliketh420]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS, currently making a video on the game and I adore her boss fight. I always save it last

[@EmberOldAccount]

@@meepoffaith6153 speaking of the background music, Neverending Song is an amazing track.

[@ABoiledBurger]

A tip for the new idk of rain 2 boss fights, the teleported itself is cover, it can be used to block wandering vagrant supernovas and other things like stone titan death ray, it helps characters like Engineer or Captain out in the early game immensely.

[@pikmonwolf]

The issue is that it's very narrow cover, so as soon as enemies move up to you you have no room to maneuver.

[@onenbking9486]

i actually didnt know this as i swear ive been hit by Stone Titans beam through the teleporters spikes

[@gaberyan6925]

​@@pikmonwolfItems like Safer Spaces trivialize this issue. With Artifact of Command and a bit of luck, you can get it in your first stage.

[@unendingsuffering]

@@gaberyan6925 artifact of command…please. where are my eclipse 8 fiends

[@gaberyan6925]

@unendingsuffering You have to understand, dude. I play Engineer and I need my bustling fungus.

[@Legend_7272]

I get deadcell if you ignore the Queen ending, but I thought that was DLC and would be included in this list. I think the Servent’s fight is one of my favorites in all of gaming. The slow build-up to fighting all 3 at once as you scramble to scale the tower is fun. The Queen was less memorable to me, but I still think her move set was grand enough to fit a final boss and not be bullshit.

[@blonkonups]

the servants is honestly unbelievably good boss design, it never feels too overwhelming when all 3 are on screen because they never just go all out at the same time, and their attacks are all well telegraphed to the player so they’re easy to learn. although the queen is a bit too easy i think because if you can beat the servants then she wont be a problem

[@burgervendor8616]

I really never got the queen fight, I beat it first try because she revived me. I was expecting a bigger challenge from it with the buildup they gave.

[@blonkonups]

@@burgervendor8616 yeah i think if she knocks u off the side of the arena she considers that cheap and revives you, it’s a strange mechanic and she’s an easy boss but her moveset is pretty fun to play around and it’s a cool arena

[@thefrostwizardgamer1555]

Boy i remember when I first went to the queen and brought oven axe instead of symmetrical lance 😵‍💫

[@ItsHimBro]

@@thefrostwizardgamer1555 bringing a slow and heavy build to the lighthouse is honestly one of the worst forms of torture out there in gaming

[@strikermodel]

I like the Solus Control Unit because you can physically stand on it. I like it when games allow you to physically interact with enemies like that without damage having to be involved. Heck, it even doubles as a viable strategy too. The plasma bolts he shoots cause explosions on the ground. So by standing on him, he shoots them upwards, making them easier to avoid.

[@ZeroFormLak]

Bad part is when you fail the skill check and he actually lands them all while you are on top. Happened once to me as a loader in late game, he died but managed to get 1/4 of my hp so fair trade

[@LadyAhro]

You're right about Hades. While it's my favourite Roguelike, their bosses are very much friendly to Roguelike beginner. Something I can't definitely say about most of Gungeon. (And while I'd like to git gud, I've always found it difficult despite practice.)

[@pikmonwolf]

The bosses in Enter the Gungeon are definitely difficult, the trick is to master the floor so you go in with enough HP to tank a bunch of hits. That's the best way to learn the bosses.

[@RushWheeler]

Almost every Hades boss aside from Charon is just "out-DPS the other guy" and it gets pretty repetitive after a while.

[@ninjin1749]

​@@pikmonwolfyou just gotta be able to master round the first three bosses then you tank everything

[@great_hedgehog8199]

​@@RushWheeler Not to say that brute forcing is not an option, but I'm really not sure why the boss fights gave you such an impression specifically. Most bosses hit really hard and tanking only really works if you're going for a rather specific build focused exactly on that. Dodging attack patterns and weaving hits in most certainly seems like a much more sensible way of approaching them.

[@RushWheeler]

@@great_hedgehog8199 in my experience, playing defensively with Hades' boss fights and attacking only when they're open in a sort of dance-like fight gets you almost nowhere when fighting them. It's better to just continuously attack them and abuse the I-frames given to you by dashing, and then the fight just becomes a breeze. That's why weapons like the shield, fists and spear are preferred in higher heat runs most of the time, since using a weapon like the bow that leaves you open and does slow damage, or the Guan Yu spear which has ridiculously slow attacks with little reward or range aren't very helpful in the long run.

[@jetpack235]

Dont forget doorlord in gungeon. It also would have been neat to mention which bosses you were not going to talk about in each game.

[@pikmonwolf]

I mean part of the reason that I didn't want to cover them is to avoid spoiling them, since some are cool surprises. Would kinda defeat that point if I listed them :P

[@gollygosh]

Played the game for +50 hours and never encountered that boss

[@cseve8801]

@@gollygosh He is in boss rush everytime, so if you want to fight him, go there

[@bobcelery6616]

I need a follow up discussing all of the secret enter the Gungeon bosses, one of my favourite games of all time

[@lindsaycooper3213]

@@gollygosh That's unfortunate! I got him a couple nights back.

[@m-zel6932]

The ammoconda

[@pikmonwolf]

He's fun to fight, but yeah he'd awful if you're determined to get the master round.

[@cyanbaba7795]

i think ammocondas fine, but he should be on the 3rd floor, maybe swapped with cannonbalrog (or a nerfed version)

[@pikmonwolf]

@@cyanbaba7795 Exactly my thoughts

[@sergeantskittles5579]

I've been playing the shit out of risk of rain 2 recently, but Gungeon has my heart. Perfect game, top 5 game of all time for me.

[@pikmonwolf]

They're both such great games, hard to pick a favorite for me.

[@ajdndbdjbdj]

Etg is just a bullet hell, i didnt like it that much

[@reyals474]

Whilst I agree about the comments of Dead Cells bosses being mostly just a pain, I do quite enjoy the fact that as long as you're careful and have really learned the bosses, it is possible (though not easy to achieve) to flawless them every single time... Well, maybe apart from some of the DLC bosses, but still, there's a really tough progression curve on learning how to fight them. Though with builds you're uncomfortable with it ALWAYS feels impossible to clear them

[@pikmonwolf]

I feel like Hades and EtG bosses are better to flawless. Most bosses in Dead Cells feel pretty bad to try and do hitless. For example Conjuctivius is super easy, and I pretty much always do their 'main body' sections flawlessly. But then you have the tentacles which are super janky. I feel like basically every boss has something like that, where it feels janky and tedious to do without taking damage.

[@reyals474]

@@pikmonwolfHonestly Conjuncti is one of my least favourites because of the tentacles haha. However I think comparing EtG to these other three is kind of unfair because of the true nature of bullet hells and dodging, just because they are (supposed to be) designed precisely for that

[@danielgholami]

​@@pikmonwolfThe tentacles can be easily doged through or mainpulate. The ones that swing will do it once every time you kill one. Or place a turret or use any skill to stop or kill them. On 5bc bosses on early game on most builds should not take too long.

[@Tom-rd8dd]

​@@pikmonwolfhow to avoid testicles 101 just go to one of the side of the arena dodge the moving one wait for the ! and dodge or parry and beat the life out of that one repeat until all of them dies. I played the game too much that I get bored rather than frustrated the dlc bosses are the only one with variety because spoiler goes down too fast for most builds when you get a buch of extra stuff in the spoiler biome

[@juanjosedelatorre7644]

I woud consider hades bosses "true forms" for the ranking because at the end you are gonna see them a lot more than thenormal ones

[@pikmonwolf]

I'd say that's definitely the case with the fury sisters and Lenrne, but much less so the case with Theseus and Hades, since it takes a long while to get to Heat 6+ unless you're hard focusing one weapon. And sadly, that means you're seeing more of the lamer extreme measure variants while the good ones take awhile to get to.

[@screamingcactus1753]

@@pikmonwolf Also extreme measures is not the only way to boost heat, so if you're focusing on other modifiers you may never see the special variants. I know I've only fought the boosted Furies.

[@coltoniusix7638]

man hand of the king really made me sad. he is genuinely the most fun boss ive ever fought in a rogue like. he's actually extremely well designed, just hard. I love how you have to watch what he does so you can prepare for each hit, timing a parry perfectly, or using the platforms to weave through at the perfect time. every time i die to him, i actually DON'T get frustrated, because of how much un i have fighting him. I also think his voice is badass.

[@BakedValkyrie42]

It really baffled me how someone could beat him on 5BC, multiple times, without ever picking up on any of this. :/

[@pikmonwolf]

Oh I understand him perfectly fine. I beat him more often than not. He's just not fun.

[@coltoniusix7638]

@@pikmonwolf to each their own then. I love his fight.

[@fuefuedo9994]

@@pikmonwolfyes he is fun ur just complaining about a hard boss in hard game what do you expect

[@newkie1626]

it's fine to have opinions, even if those opinions are absolute trash@@pikmonwolf

[@cassiecarryd4864]

I don't know how much you've run into Tisiphone but she is maybe the MOST charming to me because: Eventually she is tasked with fighting Zagreus so much and he's so stubborn in trying to get her to speak on something else that she learns how to say "Zagreus" making it the only other word she knows besides "Murder" and "Murderer." It's genuinely the best part of any of the furies for me.

[@nikolaibeckel1071]

Your comments on Enter The Gungeon were incredibly well thought-out and done, the boss fights in enter the gungeon are so gooooooooooood!!!!!!!! working on finishing the pilot's past still, I've unlocked the bullet and killed his past and I've unlocked paradox, but I still haven't unlocked gunslinger or cultist :( nor made it to bullet hell. EtG is soooooo goooood

[@pikmonwolf]

Yeah the pilot's past is brutal. I don't really like when bosses change up the gameplay to that degree. And the cultist isn't an actual character you unlock, they're player 2 when you do local co-op.

[@mighty9003]

the gunslinger is a fun character, and i do apologize if im wrong here since i did this Years ago, but I'm pretty sure you need to get to bullet hell to get gunslinger since those two have a shared history. the gunslingers past is the bullet hell fight after all. and don't worry about the final boss taking A LOT of tries to learn. i have 200+ hours in gungeon still struggle to perfect that boss unless i have like 30 blanks. keep going just enjoy going through the gungeon and having a laugh at your favorite refences, maybe go take down a metal gear, I always love that fight. keep trying and eventually you will just enter that zen state and know how to dodge perfectly without being able to explain how you did it. you just gotta keep entering the gungeon.

[@sakarain]

@@pikmonwolfThe very first time I did Pilot’s past I struggled with it, however by the third encounter i was able to flawless it. (If I remember correctly the missles you have as an item do a shit ton of damage) I hope this doesn’t sound like I’m bragging. I really love how it’s a closer to a traditional shmup boss.

[@douglasramirez5147]

Gungeon is super fun, I love it sm! If you still need to unlock gunslinger, the way you do it is by beating the lich as the paradox, and then when you spawn in as the gunslinger you’ll have to kill the past with the bullet to be able to unlock gunslinger permanently

[@peavuh]

i guess you counted the Lich as a secret boss, but imo it's the FINEST of the Gungeon with the highly challenging but fair patterns, viability of many strategies and a masterpiece of a final phase

[@therealmrboo9962]

100% agree

[@pikmonwolf]

Oh yeah he's great but definitely a secret.

[@peavuh]

@@pikmonwolf honestly to me he just seems like the true final boss bc ya dont have to do anything complicated to unlock bullet hell but i can see where ur coming from

[@pikmonwolf]

@@peavuh I mean, you have to kill the pasts of the 4 main characters. I'd call that complicated lol

[@WaffleStart]

@@pikmonwolf i wouldnt say the complication is within killing the pasts, itd be crafting the bullet itself that could kind of make it considered to be a secret, but even then it feels more like natural progression where the more you play etg, the more stuff you unlock. in that sense i dont think the lich is a secret boss

[@wildebeest333]

I know it's not one of the ones you mentioned in this video but the final boss of Slay the Spire and the miniboss leading up to it are really well designed. It's able to counter cheese strategies and infinite turns, but it still doesn't hard-counter most builds too bad, and the beating of the heart along with the screen shake being in time with the music is really cool.

[@eyeball836]

The extreme measures for the bone hydra he can move around when he usually stays in one spot for those who haven't played hades

[@pikmonwolf]

True, but he has very little health at the point he starts moving around so it's rarely an actual factor.

[@petermanfox2535]

While I do agree with a bunch of your criticisms of Hades' boss fights, I don't really understand how giving dialogue to the Hydra would improve things. I mean... it's a hydra, at worst you'd get a Tisiphone kind of deal where the snakes just hiss and at best you'd just get a bunch of snake puns, not to mention there would be the issue of coming up with a different personality for each head that can take the main place in the fight, when the only thing that's really different between them is some attacks and a detail on the head.

[@pikmonwolf]

My complaint wasn't that the hydra lacked a personality, it was that they went with a boss decision that lead to them giving the 2nd world boss no personality. I think fighting something else that can talk would've been better.

[@darvotte]

the dead cell’s reasoning was kind of meh but i can understand why you have these thoughts

[@pikmonwolf]

I get why people disagree, I was definitrly harsh on it. I haf actually gone in with the intent to be much kinder. But as I really dug into every boss to analyze them more thouroughly I concluded that even bosses I originally thought were pretty solid were actually very flawed.

[@nickinterstellar6521]

​@@pikmonwolf you litterally admitted that you used your flawed principles to try to drive your point home even though, as you said, they seemed good at first.

[@different_stuff]

Isn't concierge the easiest dead cells boss? Everyone i saw killed it on the first try, including me. And it's the first boss that i killed without taking damage. Funny that you said the exact solution "don't be creative". Just hit-evade. I guess that would be the reason why this boss is bad, but definitely not a reason to prefer evading invisible tentacles from the ground to this. And it doesn't matter where does Hand of King faces. He'll hit in your direction anyways. That's the exact mistake that i made - take into account which way he's facing rolling behind his back to evade his hits. It won't help. He'll just turn to you in the moment when he makes a hit, it's not like "you can't tell which way he's facing", he just changes the way. So i guess this whole review is just a matter of skill issue/attention issue.

[@pikmonwolf]

The concierge is easier on the lower difficulties but on the higher ones Conjuctivius is easier to shred and deals less damage. And the Hand of the King turning on a dime to track you is also annoying. It adds to what I said early on where dodging is tedious so you need to parry everything.

[@gabriellemos2491]

@@pikmonwolf pretty easy to do hand of the king without parrying everything =D

[@sharkastic2633]

@@pikmonwolf Your issue is relying on shields, then.

[@Florjb0rjTheFloorboard]

​@@pikmonwolfsounds like a skill issue to me

[@ED-gw9rg]

​@@sharkastic2633But dodging is less effective than parrying when you're good at the game, isn't it?

[@kacheechang4667]

Its rather interesting to hear the take on the dead cell bosses. Specifically the hand of the king. Where you see a boss that is unreadable, too big to maneuver in a cramp arena, with slow attacks that you cover half the said arena, I see a perfect challenge in which any build can work against him. Want to just run up and slash away at him? Most brutailty weapons will work just fine. Want to use shields? shields work great. Want to use slow weapons? He's just slow enough that you can weave some strong hits in between his attacks. Projectiles kinda get hampered and deterred in that fight thanks to that shield but you can make them work. The small arena and his attacks covering a good majority of it is certainly rough but I think it highlights the fact that this isn't a boss where you can just run away. You have to interact with the hand in some way and learn his attacks. Im not too sure about the rolling part of your argument as for one, he pushes himself forward when attacking making his big frame not too much of an issue to roll through and two, he often hits behind him with most of his attacks anyways making so that you have to be precise with your rolls through him. The only attack I think is actual bullshit is the slam part of his 2 hit combo because I swear I at the apex of my double jump and that shit still hits me. I often have to resort to the platforms on the side to dodge it. I really enjoyed this video. Bossfights in rougelikes have got to be some of the hardest bosses to make. You gotta make a boss that's challenging, feel fair, replayable, and you usually got to make a ton of them in order for players to not get bored over the same boss alongside all the other stuff like good visuals, sound design, and all that fun stuff. Very few rougelikes get away with a linear boss line up. Hades and Skul are some of the very few I can think of.

[@pikmonwolf]

Interesting to hear your take on HoTK. I genuinely despise him. I have not once had fun fighting him.

[@gabriellemos2491]

​@@pikmonwolfif you pay close atention on hand of the king you can actually see if he is gonna use the 3 hits or 1 hit+slam, the wind of of the first atack is VERY different

[@heyaitsceleste]

In Hades, Tisiphone does develop more dialogue / attempt to communicate with Zagreus the more times you encounter her. I cant remember what it was about but Zag tries to make her say a different word and I think she manages to after a while.

[@antoniogaravo9289]

24:48 "oh, a dragon for the final boss ? not very original in my opin-" *dragon pull out comically oversized glock*

[@ethanriem9242]

I am unsure if you count pasts as secret bosses, but I must say that pasts lead to some of the most fun experiences in the game, for me. Hands down, my favorites have to be the Bullet and the Pilot. They're two of the hardest, but they're so damn fun to figure out and master, because they are both highly reminiscent of the characters core designs, and also extremely creative & challenging.

[@nivmishaeli9310]

About the hades fight, I always saw the minions as a symbol your fighting the god of the dead which brings creatures from the underworld to fight you

[@larsthememelord3383]

the queen and her servants are not secret bosses they are dlc bosses also the dead cells bosses arent that bad the timekeeper is good if you enjoy parrying projectiles, conjuctivius is a fun bullet hell with enemy fights in between phases (wich helps trigger enemy death abilities) the gardener is my favourite boss with how you can bounce on the shrooms to dodge its attacks hand of the king feels like a good final challenge that punishes every build equally mama tick makes sure you know when to roll and concierge is pretty basic but hes the first you’ll fight most likely

[@pikmonwolf]

As I said, if there was any uncertainty I would consider a boss secret. So I ruled the Queen and Servants as such. As for the rest, I can see why you enjoy the bosses and what you like about them, but I wouldn't say I agree overall. The Scarecrow is too much a build check, the Hand of the King is just tedious, etc... But that's of course my opinion. Good write up.

[@larsthememelord3383]

@@pikmonwolf yeah maybe the scarecrow is a build check but you can easily not go to the scarecrow if you dont want to fight him

[@rowanfunke]

im sorry i liked the video but the dead cells one is lowkey a skill issue - learning the overlapping attacks is just part of the challenge of the game. None I would consider downright unfair (coming from someone who has just finished cursed sword 5bc run after 50+ attempts)

[@rowanfunke]

also on what planet is conjunctivitis easier than the walking punching bag concierge

[@pikmonwolf]

The thing is, you can pretty easily deal with the overlapping attacks by parrying. The issue is that attempting to avoid it by dodging is just... annoying.

[@thegoldenraysoftheglorious1180]

I have been doing legendary cursed sword attempts in dead cells and I honestly agree that it is skill issue

[@gabriellemos2491]

​@@pikmonwolfwhat do you think of moddified dracula's first form? You know, the one you can parry or dodge the fireballs...

[@georgeporter1836]

thats what i got from it... honestly sounds like the complaints i had when id done my first run through lol

[@vulpinitemplar5036]

Providence knew that his brother, Mithrix, had superb boss potential and banished him to the moon out of a mix of fear and spite, however he turned out to be the far superior boss as said brother is a push over with only aggressive scaling being his saving grace and even then it mostly just makes his fight a snooze because of how tedious it tends to be, the alternate final boss shares the same boss design as every other boss you've encountered prior(the big ones at least) by just being a really big bullet sponge that likes to demand your attention but can ultimately be cheesed to the nth degree and back again, fun though.

[@christhopervargas2275]

even th i have never played ror2 i must say, lets not forget providence have a damage cap wich can be annoying when youre trying to break the game

[@vulpinitemplar5036]

​@@christhopervargas2275 Assuming you're right then it is a feature that both brothers share which is a shame, being able to bypass such systems in Binding of Isaac is fantastic.

[@christhopervargas2275]

@@vulpinitemplar5036sadly i cant prove it since it was when i have pirated the game on my old pc, it took me a while but i farmed over a 1000 crowbars with sniper and 100% crit, one shot and it stopped the damage to enter into the invencibility mode with the shield sign over his head (now i went to th wiki to check, yep you can only deal a 33% of his life as a single attack but more as multidamage) aand you cant do extreme damage to the worms or the last fase since theyre the same healthbar

[@ShroomBois_Inc]

Play on eclipse

[@vulpinitemplar5036]

@@ShroomBois_Inc Same things apply even with the gimmicks of Eclipse but it does add some extra frantic spice for those looking for that specifically which is nice. Edit: at least personally, I'm sure there are people that find max Eclipse exactly what they're after just like those who use the higher difficulty mods and such so I'm glad that they can :)

[@PowdergameFan18]

Damn, half the comments on Dead Cells just day ‘Get Gud’. I thought the community would be a little less rude, I thought he had a couple fair points on the bosses. I also havent mastered hitless 5BC difficulty so I can agree on some boss designs just being tedious repetition, like Concierge’s forced shield and aura to extend the fight. In fact Conj. and HotK have invincibility phases to prevent insta nuking and slow the pace down. Huh.

[@pikmonwolf]

Yeah I think it's pretty silly to call it a skill issue. Especially since I specifically said that the harder alternatives to the Hand of the King are also better designed lol.

[@Cer049]

​@@pikmonwolfit comes off as "skill issue" because some of the issues you mentioned can be circumvented by slight gameplay tweaks. I consistently no hit bosses in 5bc regardless of my build, shield or not. Also I still don't get why you need to know which way Hotk is facing, he always hits your direction

[@phiphi2209]

If this was a top 5 list I would’ve loved to see slay the spire in here, I know it wouldn’t be as action packed as the other games but each 10 bosses having its own strategy and gimmicks that you spend each act building up with your decisions, for is fun and makes each run very unique.

[@pikmonwolf]

I mention in the pinned comment that that was my original plan, but it wiped my saves twice.

[@phiphi2209]

@@pikmonwolf oh that’s extremely unfortunate I’m sorry, if you ever find a way to recover it or play through the game again to that point then would love to see a video on it if possible

[@different_stuff]

19:31 i like how you are saying his movement super fluid and you are showing this action mush.

[@pikmonwolf]

Haha fair. Blame video compression

[@defireleaf]

The hand of the king is just a skill issue mate

[@pikmonwolf]

Nah mate, I can beat him reliably, he's just not fun.

[@thegoldenraysoftheglorious1180]

​@@pikmonwolfhe is easy to beat and one of the best experiences in the game except spoiler boss and queen

[@MrMordethrhedan]

an important thing to note about Ror2 bosses is that appart from mithrix, they are not only build as uniques bosses, but as really powerfull mobs, because with the loop system that allow you to keep a run for a long time, you'll start to have thoses bosses spawn as mobs, thus why they patern are kinda "simple" with only 2-3 moves

[@dakotavincent3170]

Make more of these rankings and analysis plez very good idea for a playlist might help channel pop a lil

[@callumchang7927]

I absolutely love the mithrix fight. One of my favorite parts of it is just how fast he is.

[@pikmonwolf]

How's the quote go? War is speed?

[@metaverse9883]

​@@pikmonwolfvice versa.

[@refracted2500]

I would mention The Binding of Issac but ya Delirium is enough to make it not worth of a list like this I will say I think bosses like Hush, Mega Satin, Dogma, and all of The Beast fights are great big bosses and there are a lot of floor fights that are great to. Deals having a chance of appearing after a boss fight is also really fun and a way to get good by not getting hit (or finding soul hearts whatever works)

[@pikmonwolf]

Yeah the main reason I didn't include it was really that I just never got into it. It didn't grab me.

[@pk251]

@@pikmonwolf that's unfortunate man, it's the best one too

[@peamut547]

@@pikmonwolfSame. I played through Gungeon and Skul and loved them both, but Isaac just didn’t get me… I don’t know why.

[@bradenmoore2187]

​@@pikmonwolfthat's fair, it didn't grab me either. (I definitely don't have 1000+ hours in it or anything)

[@randomt_1468]

I always thought the side plot of teaching Tisiphone to talk was quite fun.

[@justaguy1304]

For the risk of rain quip about boss fights and cover, that’s why there are always little details in levels like trees, monoliths, statues, and literally any part of the environment that isn’t an enemy can serve as cover, so long as the boss is on the other side. Even in the clip as artificer shown, there are three-ish places to hide

[@wit1493]

Gungeon actually has a DPS limiter on all boss health bars making it so you can’t become TOO powerful and shred through their health bar - even if the math would make sense for that to happen.

[@megablueflash1816]

In which case, things like spice or makeshift cannon come in VERY handy.

[@surfinggarchomp2820]

The cap has a limit though: if you deal over 1k damage in one bullet it completely bypasses the cap. This is why 360 yes scope works

[@theballoonfamily9539]

a common strategy against theseus is to kill Asterius first, then focus on Theseus himself, and saving your call and summon for that phase, he's also the only reason i like running with Extreme measures always on 3 ticks, so that i don't have to deal with his shield in his first phase. this also prevents you from locking in Demeter. if i can get a call, i'll always take either Athena, Aphrodite or Artemis. the former 2's call paired with your summon is usually enough to skip his second phase all together.

[@pikmonwolf]

That's a good point, but I feel like locking in the same calls to get around Demeter doesn't really fix the 'makes runs feel samey' problem it causes.

[@theballoonfamily9539]

@@pikmonwolf oh i know. Any call works really. Those three are just my personal favorites because i like doing big damage.

[@pikmonwolf]

@@theballoonfamily9539 That's fair. I'd still say overall it's a flaw with the design that there's a chance for it to be like 4x harder.

[@marigolden_mariposa]

​@@pikmonwolfI've never even considered trying to get Demeter so Thesius doesn't have it. I've gotten to 10 heat never even thinking about that. I'm not sure I understand what the issue is. Are you actually saying his Demeter call is 4x harder than the others? 😂 idk man I find that hard to believe

[@josephginsberg8616]

I would love to see you rate some more boss fights, one of my recommendations is Cult Of The Lamb

[@RavenGamingOverLord]

That would be interesting

[@veryultraviolet]

good video! i didnt see you talk about ror2’s voidling even tho its a dlc boss. maybe your counted it as a secret boss? which is valid if true and i look forward to the next vid

[@ianmurphy7460]

Great video! As always I love your perspectives on games I haven’t played :) can’t wait to see what you make in the future

[@pikmonwolf]

Thanks mate! Glad you enjoyed it

[@sitrex8459]

Why did you count the Servants and the Queen as secret bosses but not Dracula?

[@pikmonwolf]

Dracula is definitely not secret, the DLC keeps shouting go fight Dracula go fight Dracula! And it's a Castlevania DLC if it ended any other way it'd be sacrilege. The Queen meanwhile is definitely treated much more secret even if she is advertised on the DLC page and stuff. In game she is treated as a secret boss. And I think that puts her in kind of a gray area and like I say at the start any bosses where I'm not sure get counted as secret. I also had a bit I wanted to say about her and didn't want to make the video any longer.

[@sitrex8459]

@@pikmonwolf Good to know I guess. I don't have the Castlevania DLC yet but I just assumed that Dracula and Queen would've been lumped in the same category cause they're both DLC, alternative ending bosses. Ain't nothing secret about fighting the Queen in a DLC called The Queen and the Sea, but her door is right next to spoiler boss' so it makes some sense. Thanks for responding, and good video even though I personally disagree at some points.

[@pikmonwolf]

@@sitrex8459 The way I look at it is if the DLC was base game, the queen would definitely be secret, the only reason she isn't is because if you're selling DLC with a cool boss, you're gonna advertise that boss. But in the Castelvania DLC was base game, Dracula would not be secret. And I'm glad you enjoyed the video! Obviously no opinion will be universal

[@picklestheomnipotent4535]

fun fact: the teleporter prongs function as cover from every boss attack if you angle it right, more forgiving than they looks, ESPECIALLY the primordial one

[@whast3552]

You had me at the clay dunestrider review

[@Lacheln-YO]

Risk of rain's bosses aren't even bosses, at some point you become the boss not them...

[@pikmonwolf]

True. It's fun getting to the point that you obliterate them.

[@Lacheln-YO]

@@pikmonwolf I wasn't even looking at one and then 5 out of 7 stone titans got turned into ash

[@ShaeTollefson]

I love Risk of Rain 2. It is one of my favorite games of all time, and it’s my favorite rogue like of all time. With that said, the bosses are absolutely horrendous. You barely interact with them and their attacks range from barely even being there to being a run ender.

[@Loalder]

Yep, Risk of rain 2 is my fav rogue like, I hate Dead Cells and I must admit, RoR bosses are really really bad, no way DC and Hades bosses are worse than RoR

[@ShaeTollefson]

@@Loalder I played dead cells and it’s like a 6/10. The bosses are far more engaging than RoR. I plan to get hades at some point and I imagine those bosses are also a lot better

[@Loalder]

@@ShaeTollefson yep, my problem with dead cells is the gameplay variety... everything just feels the same. Hades is pretty cool tho, really recommend, you wont go bat shit crazy with stats like RoR, but the gameplay is pretty good and the characters/story is pretty enjoyable

[@emanwonkon2205]

Woah, didnt expect this video to be opened up with Into the Breach. That gave me some kind of whiplash

[@danusio7548]

This is an incredible video! You totally deserve way more subscribers!! (Though personally i kinda hate Mithrix and his attacks feeling impossible if you don't have enough mobility items or abilities, but i can definitively see how someone can enjoy him a lot too.)

[@zewps9502]

Yeah I lowkey feel like Obliteration was added just cause of bad item luck when it comes to mobility. But hey the voidcrab is pretty fun

[@screamingcactus1753]

@@zewps9502 Obliteration was in Early Access as an alternate ending since they didn't want to spoil the final boss before release, they just never removed it since it has its own secret boss and is pretty important lore-wise.

[@zewps9502]

@@screamingcactus1753 oh okay that's cool, and hey it still serves as a mithrix dodge for like monsoon achievement runs if poor mobility

[@hellina_girlie]

Also in dead cells bosses' animations may break via slow, freeze or stun. Sometimes animation of bosses are just messy.

[@pikmonwolf]

Oh yeah, I've had that screw me over before

[@gafoneo3727]

I don't agree with your points on concierge. He isn't tanky at all even if you have balanced blade for example. And he should be simple and have small amount of attacks for newbies to easily kill him

[@coltoniusix7638]

i beat him on my first run ever. hes incredibly easy.

[@travelswithmybelly]

I agree with HOTK because F him but yeah concierge is a push over. I wouldn't say it's a good boss but I think it's pretty easy. I never die fighting him.

[@gilbertohernandez855]

I haven't played the other games but risk of rain 2 also has a couple secret mechanics that make bossfights easier to complete as time progresses. The teleporter can't be fully charged with out killing the boss, as the boss is 1% of charging the teleporter. However when it is 99% charged mobs will no longer spawn so you just have to clean up what mobs are left

[@frogv2745]

I love hades and gungeon and have played risk of rain 2 and dead cells but didn't get into them as much... so i feel slightly vindicated knowing that dead cells bosses are kinda sucky. Completely agree with your placement of hades, honestly boi and bull feels like a much harder and better fight than the final boss and the first time I cleared them I immediately butchered the final boss. Would also like more replayability, no alternate bosses, floors or secrets... (Aside from 1, maybe 2 if you count tiny rat.... but i wouldn't?) but with how clean and rewarding it is to speedrun the game that'd be a pretty double edged sword. Someone else mentioned pasts and while I do think that ETG is great in terms of secrets... a lot of the pasts kinda suck. That lovely feature of hoarding blanks to make the boss easier to get master rounds to make the next floor and boss easier- falls apart at the end when you fight the last boss tm. And the game kinda encourages this, the Pilots past is a different game which you dont get to practice or play until you hit the end- meaning if you lose to it you need to play all the way backthrough to attempt it again. The game encourages you to stockpile blanks and just not interact with the new bossfight mechanic. That being said these are all inevitably hype, capstone fights that you have *earned* and often make cool references to the character you're playing. A dogfight as the pilot is awesome, the legend of zelda style parries as the bullet are so so cool. This feels better with the rat, you dont lose the game if you suck at the new mechanic introduced and yet its incredibly rewarding to master, 10/10. (Although if you can beat the rat you'd have been able to beat the dragun anyway so...)

[@kolyashinkarev7366]

Bro, i agree that dead cells bosses are unfair, but calling the concierge harder than conjuctivirus is just legit skill issue

[@pikmonwolf]

I mean, if I think the tougher boss is easier doesn't that make me skilled :P

[@kolyashinkarev7366]

@@pikmonwolf dunno, I'm only at 4 cells now, maybe it's much harder on 5, but honestly because of those fucking tentacles conjunctivirus is harder for me, maybe we just have different skill issues

[@Mg07a]

@@kolyashinkarev7366 those tentacles should be illegal, I can't see their location underground very well so they normally hit me a lot, and you have to kill so much of them for the battle to be actually fun

[@coathanger7760]

Hades is my favorite game ever created, happy to see so much love for it

[@pikmonwolf]

Yeah I do genuinely love the game, I didn't want to rag on it.

[@grubbygeorge2117]

Why was there no mention of the Charon fight in the Hades section of the video? Is it because you've not fought him, or did you not want to spoil it?

[@pikmonwolf]

He's definitely a secret boss

[@grubbygeorge2117]

@@pikmonwolf What did you think about that fight? I found the idea of a boss that has the same amount of power whether you face him in your very first shop or Elysium interesting. Had runs where I took him on in Tartarus, lost 2 Death Defiances to the fight but the reward still ultimately paid off for me.

[@nix2361]

"And even though I do have my complaints about some bosses *cue Ammoconda*"

[@AlexeyBeganov]

I'd disagree with a few takes on Risk of Rain. The beatle queen is by far the strongest boss in stage 1 unless you've got AoE. Stone titan is a joke on most characters, especially if you have one or two mobility items or a decent mobility still, and Vagrant is a nice middle ground. I agree dunestriders are a pain in the arse, but XI constructs are by far the worst boss in the game - for how difficult it is, the reward is the worst boss item in the game (even the bloody planula is at least good for pillars on stage 6), XI is often stuck in invincibility stage and I've had so many runs where XI is in the open, but shielded, and as soon as the shield drops it moves to cover and you can't get to it without getting blasted so you have to dodge. By the time you managed to dodge the shield is back up. Honestly so annoying. Grandparents can be a DPS check, but they are pretty easy to deal with when in cover, and most of the time if I don't have the DPS to kill the grandparent before the "praise the sun" attack, I don't have the DPS to deal with the other mobs, so the sun attack really helps that way. Also a note on Hades - you are given an incentive to go to higher heats - the skelly statues for beating 8, 16 and 32 heat respectively. Granted it's a very tiny incentive, but it's there nonetheless.

[@pikmonwolf]

The problem is that you won't get Skelly statues if you just jump straight to the heat required. You need to get there one run at a time. I know because I jumped to 10 heat after beating 6 because I wanted to beat Extreme Hades. And after I did, I didn't get the Heat 8 skelly statue.

[@pikmonwolf]

And I've personally never found Xi hard, just a bit annoying at times. In my experience their laser, which is their main attack, does VERY little damage.

[@AlexeyBeganov]

@@pikmonwolf I'm not sure about the Skelly statues, as I got the heat 32 on the next successful run after heat 16 (that god for the aspect of Zeus, and even then it was bloody tough going from 16 straight to 32), but I guess you need to beat the game at the exact heat level to get the statues so your point about heat 8 is valid.

[@eldararnautovic2797]

There is one lore room in Dead Cells which solves all of your problems with game. In that room on the wall it says: GIT GUD.

[@rainbowappleslice]

Also the sound design of Mithrix’s attack is amazing

[@maranolijaune3575]

Loved the video! I think you should take a look at "Skul: The Hero Slayer", it's probably my favorite game atm and the boss fights are absolutely gourgeous! Also, what's the name of the 1st game in the introduction? (Just before Slay the Spire)

[@baconaterlover5399]

It’s known as into the breach. It’s a pretty fun strategy game, and I guess it’s a roguelike, but more in the style of something like xcom.

[@purplefirex7314]

(havent played gungeon) i love challenges, hades probably got the least punishing bosses since if you make a mistake you got many ways to save the fight, in dead cells a simple mistake can get you to low health and in ror2, the smallest mistake pretty much means death but i still find dead cells harder than the other 2 games and thats the reason i love it the most

[@pikmonwolf]

Dead cells is definitely the most challenging, unless you start looking at super high heat Hades

[@ED-gw9rg]

All the Dead Cells players seem to say "skill issue" with simple to no reasons for their claims. I get it, Dead Cells is one of the toughest roguelites out there, but do you have to look down on the majority of gamers for spending their lives doing something other than honing their Dead Cells skills?

[@pikmonwolf]

The thing is, even if it was a skill issue, I've got over 200 hours in the game. If it takes over 200 hours of mastering bosses for them to become fun... they're still poorly made.

[@natebrewer2224]

​@@pikmonwolfso people that understand those bosses in maybe under 50, are they still bad bosses? I liked the video but with 200 hrs you should 100% have those bosses down. Dead cells has one of if not the most easy parry/dodge system, heck you get a pop-up for crying out loud. Legitimate skill issue id say on that one. Even at half those hours you should be expecting no hit runs from yourself, not struggling on the first guy.

[@danielgholami]

​​@@pikmonwolfIf you play 5bc then early game bosses on any build should not take too long unless it's extremely specific. The concierge is really easy. Do you take all the scrolls? or buy higher value weapons? And the hand of the king is really more predictable than you can think. He always opens with the same strike giving you a chance, or his jump attacks can easily be avoided if you jump on those small ice blocks, his triple strike can be avoided by dodging and going on the ice block and his other attacks are also really predictable. Also you should not be in a hurry when fighting him, be patient. Also if you lose too much health at a time you should stay agressive and rally them back. Or just try next time and narrow down the attack that got you in the training room. Also take not of affixes on weapons like 60% damage to bleeding or 80% damage to poision as these heavily affect your damage much more than you think. You can use open wounds mutation or alchemic carbine for tactics. You can also use other skills with those affixes too. This will make you melt bosses like butter. I might suggest running a tactics build with no shields to understand the importance of dogding too.

[@ED-gw9rg]

@@natebrewer2224 I think you underestimate how much fun it is to perfect-parry a boss into oblivion. If you don't devote yourself to Dead Cells, you WILL get hit.

[@ED-gw9rg]

​@@danielgholamiOh my goodness, that's a lot of technical information you need just to make a max-difficulty Concierge bearable. Hope he doesn't jump into you with the mean red kill-you-dead sunscreen!

[@liltimmy1294]

Dead cell also has 2 bosses you missed being the servants and queen as they weren’t out and thought the servants deserve to be in last place, the queen boss fight is really creative and unique and it scales perfectly with the higher difficulties

[@pikmonwolf]

I actually counted them as secret bosses and covered them in that video.

[@rewe97]

A shocking amount of people think saying 'skill issue' completely negates any sound arguments you made. I mean its a personal list in the first place, why are they taking it so seriously. And you even have 200+ hours in dead cells and mention how much you enjoy the game, but having gripes with bosses is still a very legitimate thing. Great video overall, nice choice of background clips and sound arguments for your own opinion. Good work

[@pikmonwolf]

Hey thanks mate. I enjoy engaging with people who disagree and have their own take. Stinks how many people say skill issue instead of discussing it meaningfully.

[@rewe97]

@@pikmonwolf yeah i get where you're coming from. And while it's been a hot minute since i played dead cells and never really got into gungeon (don't really know why, though i did beat the dragon twice) i have to largely agree. Coming from a point where i startet with dead cells as soon as it got into early access i've gone through a lot of iterations with the bosses. At points you could straight up oneshot them if you were strong enough so i never got on good terms with the mandatory waiting times a lot of them got. And the game does get a lot easier with a shield, though you loose a lot of damage potential. (Wich mostly helps with the areas cause of the actual max dmg per hit on bosses they introduced, if its still in) similar story with hades, where i started pre heat and the ending wasnt in yet. But as soon as dad got his extreme measures, you better believe i always had it in. Truly the only 100% enjoyable boss, that feels both challenging and rewarding.

[@rewe97]

And again with ror2, starting out in EA, no mithrix a stuff. And the normal stage bosses as a whole never really made the 'boss' impression on me, since their moveset has to be simplistic enough to accomodate both low-mobility characters and the potential to spawn as normal enemies later on. So in conclusion while i might have enjoyed the other games a lot more (ror2 at close to 200h, hades at 93, dead cells at 200 and gungeon only at 14) i can honestly say that gungeon had the best bosses overall.

[@im_dari7614]

never let this guy design a game lmao

[@pikmonwolf]

Did I mention I also like weapon durability mechanics?

[@im_dari7614]

​@@pikmonwolf thats a pretty cold take that i agree with lol l, it usually incentive to experiment with other weapons and tools in games

[@ZarChasmOfficial]

​@@pikmonwolf I can't play Zelda because of that

[@AssassinsImpacts]

This got randomly recommended to me and holy crap I could not disagree with this list more lol. Putting RoR2 bosses anywhere in the same realm as Hades is a joke

[@pikmonwolf]

Hey you're fully welcome to your own opinion. I feel like I made my case decently, why do you disagree?

[@kruegerpoolthe13th]

I actually like the approach Dead Cells has to boss fights You fight, you die, you learn That’s what the whole game is about Then again I’m a sucker for games that make you remember a boss’s tricks and just dodge and attack until he’s dead

[@dxandotherstuff3562]

If you get Aphrodite's favour you can pretty much skip bossfights. You can just spam it and the enemy won't attack at all, it even works with Hades, and Theseus and Asterius attack each other. Also, with all the upgrades you get the bosses become regular minions at certain point

[@osteohiveporosis6882]

Dead Cells ftw. Fair but hard. They reward the pinnacle of skill

[@pikmonwolf]

I don't really agree personally. I find that a run where I play okay with OP items will always go better than playing perfect with crappy items. Scroll count, reforge luck, legendary spawns, etc...

[@osteohiveporosis6882]

@@pikmonwolf The thing about game balance in Dead Cells is that everything (aside from a few outliers like ice armor and owl) is uniquely good, so I would have to push back and say that a lot of what is good or bad for people is just playstyle. I'm not a fan of oven axe, but I know people who are insane with it. I also love sewing scissors even though lots of people would prefer not to use them. I also disagree about your complaint of too much going on or having to know movesets for bosses. The whole game is about skill, timing, and awareness, and boss fights where you have a lot going on (like Hand of the King throwing bombs then attacking) help to test the player like no other sections of the game. Plus the attack indicator, while sometimes a bit short I feel for some enemies, is very manageable on bosses. As a side note because a lot of this sounds accusatory and negative, I really don't like Hand of the King's hitboxes sometimes either.

[@pikmonwolf]

@@osteohiveporosis6882 The boss fights where the attacks are complicated and don't overlap (like Dracula) do a MUCH better job at testing the player than the ones that do a bunch of simple overlapping attacks. The simple overlapping attacks are a mess of screen clutter and RNG, the single dangerous attacks are a matter of precision and skill. But most bosses use the worse method.

[@stonetimekeeper]

Staples of the roguelike genre... no Isaac?

[@pikmonwolf]

I wanted to do very different games and Isaac is very similar to Enter the Gungeon. And when picking between the two, I love EtG but never got into Isaac.

[@stonetimekeeper]

@@pikmonwolf Understandable. I've platinumed Gungeon of PS4 and Dead God-ed Isaac: Repentance. I love both games, but Isaac is easily one of my favorites of all time. I understand if it's not for everyone, but I think it has some of the absolute best and worst bosses in a roguelike.

[@50centauri]

​@stonetimekeeper Agreed. I also 100% both isaac and EtG and i have to say that isaac literally has the worst, easiest boss (the chest path) and one of the best coolest goddamn well-designed bosses ever

[@PedroHenrique-nf1fq]

in risk of rain 2 the portal spikes can be used to cover to not get hit by the jelly fish explosion and the titan laser but i dont know if protect against the sun

[@justinp.360]

Just wanted to comment that Othercide boss battles are super epic and I wish I knew of more games that had music that evolves with boss phases

[@P1agueDoc]

Skill issue on deadcell lol sorry

[@ADeatonic]

Great video and an interesting watch but I cannot disagree more on Gungeon. I like rogue-lites a lot and I like bullet hells but I never found a single boss fight in Gungeon to be fun at all.

[@pikmonwolf]

Really? I'm surprised to hear that, why didn't you like them?

[@ADeatonic]

I'm honestly not entirely sure. It could be that I'm just not a fan of the game in general so the boss fights aren't particularly to blame. I did try my hardest to love the game tho. @@pikmonwolf

[@pikmonwolf]

@@ADeatonic Fair enough, not everything is for everyone.

[@beegyoshi1685]

@@pikmonwolf bullet hels really are not for everyone it is understandable to not like them

[@pikmonwolf]

@@beegyoshi1685 I mean, they said they like bullet hells though

[@geandiavolo3462]

14:30, looking at these, what is your opinion on Ror2 Void Final Boss?

[@TheOneAndOnlyAnt24]

All great choices! One of my top picks has to be “Have a nice Death”

[@lux_max.]

You know whats funny i play Deadcells on my phone and its so easy to cheese the bosses just bring turrets or pets and a shield and bulid the dps and spam parry

[@pikmonwolf]

I agree, but the fact that the most dependable go to method for bosses is 'cheese them with DPS' and not 'learn their patterns' is the issue.

[@lazarack4859]

I love how concise this video is! eventhough I'm really bad at roguelikes myself, you're deconstruction of the games really made it easy to understand you're personal boss placements. 9/10 from me.

[@pikmonwolf]

Hey thanks! I always want my videos to still be enjoyable for people who aren't super familiar with the subject, so I'm glad you liked it! And I feel like the Hades section could've been cut down a bit, but that would've delayed things further. "If I had more time I'd write a shorter letter" and all that.

[@different_stuff]

your*

[@lazarack4859]

@@different_stuff "NoLife"

[@andrewcrawford4805]

I hope the chiron fight makes it’s way into this secret boss fight vid

[@DeciDeci_]

I'd love to see you do this but instead of rogue-like you do "Which Metroidvania does boss fights best?" That'd be super cool and both game genres go hand in hand sometimes so it would make sense as a sequel.

[@adgeifc]

As someone who hitless almost every boss except dracula in dead cell Concierge is way easier in my opinion than any other boss I like hand of the king the roll jump jump roll he plays very fair the arena really good on my opinion I absolutely hate scarecrow mofo has hidden Mechanic's of changing his next attack based on what you did and good lord the sickle are horrendous to parry

[@pikmonwolf]

The concierge is definitely easier to do hitless, but he's just so damn boring

[@adgeifc]

@@pikmonwolf i agree

[@tropixx8143]

dead cells is RNG heavy?? huh????

[@pikmonwolf]

Because of scroll's exponential scaling, fragments and challenge rifts make a massive difference in your power. And since you can only hold a few items it's hard to reliably build synergies.

[@sakarain]

This video made recognize little intricacies in EtG that I never noticed before Like damn, imagine if you couldn’t move when petrified

[@pikmonwolf]

Right? That would a terrible thing to put in a bullet hell *cough cough* Cuphead *cough*

[@surfinggarchomp2820]

I also love how you can look away to avoid petrification

[@naitnorab727]

Something I think is really cool about Hades' final boss is that his moveset mirrors zagreus' moveset. Pretty much everything he does is a stronger version of something zagreus can do with his spear (the urns and the minion summons are an exception for instance, but they make sense in his role as lord of the underworld) it also implies that he is so strong Zag can only beat him with the help of the olympians... there is even dialogue if you manage to beat him without that help.