Whipple Vs. Sledgehammer Electric Turbo on the Dyno

Does all boost make the same power? The Sledgehammer electric turbo goes head to head with the Whipple that was on the car before in two frighteningly similar dyno sessions. Join our forum at www.electrifiedboost.com and consider supporting my efforts on patreon: / alexltdlx

[@randyderksen4358]

Thanks for taking the time for this great content! Looking forward to what's coming up next - very interesting stuff.

[@AlexLTDLX]

Thanks Randy!

[@adamgroszkiewicz814]

Heh, remember when "electric turbo" was a joke people told? :)

[@jackdaniels2657]

It still is a joke only good for fast take off passing acceleration or shit hills. Not good for towing not good full time not good on Long hills or steep hill too much weight too much space

[@adamgroszkiewicz814]

@@jackdaniels2657 You're comparing a long haul work truck use case scenario vs a short burst acceleration use case scenario as somehow requiring the same type of hardware? Sure man, whatever. Do you also use a Miata to tow your boat?

[@lel3450]

@@jackdaniels2657lol TOW?! Who tf towing with a Honda civic boy you on the wrong video. These for 4cyl engines gtfo 😂

[@mantis_toboggan_md]

​@@jackdaniels2657 These products are absolutely not intended for towing. LoL.

[@3dw3dw]

Really appreciate what you've shared with us thus far.

[@AlexLTDLX]

Thanks for the kind words and for subscribing.

[@Erwt64]

Love the way you convey your understanding! And your inverted raccoon sunglasses art 🙂

[@de-bodgery]

This is compelling! good job on the analytics!

[@AlexLTDLX]

Thanks!

[@Go4BrokeOffroad]

Blower drive efficiency. I've always felt the electric turbo is the way to go. Awesome man.

[@AlexLTDLX]

Thanks!

[@weareallbeingwatched4602]

To *really* win the air compressor game, a multi stage turbine with an axial flow topology rather than a radial flow would really be the winner.

[@EZ-D-FIANT]

Those Amps gotta come from somewhere tho, exhaust gasses gonna move anyway Turbos are pretty efficient already so I dunno ifi it is really moreish efficient yet its definitely a bonus for performance and plumbing tho....

[@jpabon18]

Great work Alex! Happy Father’s Day as well sir!!!

[@AlexLTDLX]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@keithtobin5369]

Good stuff thanks for sharing all this information

[@5riddikk]

I always suspected that "clean" boost would be a huge part of the success of the electric turbo. Blowers just have massive parasitic drag compared to a setup like urs. Im incredibly impressed with the work your doing and cant wait for future developments.

[@AlexLTDLX]

Thanks for the kind words. I've got some interesting ideas that could hopefully be applied to more conventional systems as well.

[@heinzhaupthaar5590]

The losses with an alternator driven charger are actually larger, actually much larger in fact. An order of magnitude larger, and then some. Considering a common alternator is only ~50-70% efficient, usually more towards 50%, and there are losses in the controller, the gearbox and the driving e-motor as well, I guess it's quite reasonable to assume the system efficiency isn't much greater than 25%. A belt reaches an efficiency of ~90-98% though, usually around 95%. You can shift the parasitics to a different time which can come in very handy in certain applications. Still, even the most efficient setup you could design today will be way behind even a horribly designed, very "lossy" belt drive. There's still applications where an electric setup is just great, like the one presented here (really nice work, not just the e-charger, if you're actually reading replies to old comments...) but for general purpose-ish road or track use it's a complete no brainer, just like using a supercharger for low boost levels and all the similar ijit stuff people regularly do all day and then try to justify as reasonable or rational with some utter BS. (Sorry, after typing all that I get the feeling I probably just completely misunderstood what you were actually trying to say, but now it's already written, so... I've had such long and idiotic discussions with a friend about that exact topic lately, trying to keep him from burning loads of cash for nothing [he desperately wants an e-charger as a replacement for a perfectly fine vtg-turbo because "it's bound to be more efficient and will make more power and blahblahblah!" 🤦‍♂️ Yes, I have a couple of friends who are proper idiots. But they're good people nonetheless and have other qualities, they say.] that it somehow hit a certain, rant inducing spot.)

[@jesusisalive3227]

@@heinzhaupthaar5590 Your friend does realize a turbo runs off of otherwise wasted heat energy but an engine has to do extra work to run the e-charger right?

[@heinzhaupthaar5590]

@@jesusisalive3227 No, not really. That's the whole problem in a nutshell - as I said, he's a proper idiot and any attempts to explain the basic operation of a turbocharger have been futile.

[@dreece2000]

@@heinzhaupthaar5590 why must you get in so far over your head? Why even say anything?

[@boltonky]

Thanks Alex, good end to my weekend. I would consider the whipple didn't perform as well in the 60 foot than the electric turbo as there is no lag or in-efficiency from having to draw power from the motor to power itself but will be interesting as real world sometimes brings interesting results. Look foward to next video and keep safe...and here in NZ have to wait til sep for our fathers day if my kid remembers haha

[@AlexLTDLX]

No, thank you for watching, subscribing and taking the time to comment. Plus you live in (from what I've seen) is one of the most spectacular places on earth. And I'm sure your kid will remember come September. As for the Whipple, it does hit like a hammer... but I didn't run the transbrake yet (on the comparative drag test anyway). Off the brake, the Whipple would pull the front wheels. Then again, you're right - with a working converter, the Sledgehammer will do the same. The timeslips are interesting, to be sure.

[@johnnypenhale5743]

Nice work bro

[@williamzoom]

It's truly something to celebrate when your kids finally start bringing you food home!

[@AlexLTDLX]

Yes indeed. Thx, William.

[@kw2519]

Thanks for compressing this all down 😂

[@TurboDirectSA]

Its called Efficiency - work input versus output -- nicely done.

[@dominicgarcia85]

I’ve been screaming in my head to put motor on a turbo glad someone tried

[@FixItStupid]

Thank You.& Feel Better Too

[@daveerrington5166]

This is very intriguing information

[@mastercricket7626]

Lol 2.3l Whipple 😔 I have a 1.6l bored to a 1.7 with a 63mm turbo pushing 30psi , but your super charger has more volume than my engine lmfao ... but still fun on a car only weigh 2k lbs lol peace and love bro keep it rad stay safe and build on l8z and respect to ya brotha

[@tommycortez_]

I was wondering how you are controlling the boost on the electric supercharger ? Do you have some kind of wastgate on the chargepipe going into the intake manifold ? What keeps this electric supercharger from overboosting , I would love to have this into my older Acura nsx

[@AlexLTDLX]

You could tie the control of the e-turbo to throttle position, mass air flow or engine load. But in my case, my engine can use all it's got, all the time. Developmentally, we're discovering a lot. Thanks for subscribing!

[@mccanlessdesign]

My first time here - wonderful work! Any comparative BSFC numbers?

[@AlexLTDLX]

Thanks. I did have some calculated numbers, but I don't remember them now. It's not even close, though. The Whipple, at it's best, was only around 50% efficient; the Sledgehammer is over 70%, particularly now that it's being sprayed with meth in the volute. The Whipple took about 90hp to drive, the Sledgehammer robs nothing from the crank (but takes 44 hp of electric power to drive). The Sledgehammer's performance is comparable to the Whipple now - in fact, they're virtually tied in track performance at this point. The difference is the Sledgehammer does the deed with only 6 psi of boost and the Whipple took 15 psi. Here's our first 9 second pass with the Sledgehammer: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iIWTfmtura2thLM

[@boostedgringo5885]

I love data and your next video answers the questions I have. Never been much of a dyno number guy. Trap speed tells a better tale.

[@AlexLTDLX]

I agree - the dyno is good for relative changes and getting you in the ballpark. Thanks for watching and subscribing!

[@davidvaughn7778]

I keep catching these videos out of order. I wonder though, have you weighed the whipple charger setup vs all the equipment required to run the electric turbo (supercharger) setup?

[@AlexLTDLX]

The Whipple setup is much heavier - about 120 lbs including the A/W intercooler stuff. The electric setup is around 90 including batteries and cables. And the majority of the weight of the whipple is on the front, while the majority of the electric supercharger's weight (the batteries) is over the rear axle in the trunk. You could shave another 25-30 lbs off the electric supercharger's weight by going to lipo batteries instead of LTOs - but LTOs are safer, more temperature stable, have much longer life spans, etc, etc...

[@802Garage]

Wow, that is an absolutely massive difference. I was confused about how the duty cycle could be so different for similar power levels, but then I remembered. The supercharger takes a lot of power to run. The engine has to burn extra fuel to make the boost to create the power. Basically, parasitic losses, the main reason for the efficiency difference all around. That, plus other losses inherent with superchargers. Amazing demonstration that I'm sure will make some people upset in the comments. I imagine a conventional turbo making similar power would fall somewhere in between the two in terms of overall efficiency, but closer to the electric turbo. Good stuff!

[@derekmaxwell8164]

I feel like the electric turbo won't have as hot of air as regular turbo allowing more power per psi and more timing and more boost before problems lol

[@AlexLTDLX]

I was pretty surprised by the differences as well; I just happened to stumble across the old data. Even if you were to compensate for the differences in AFR, you're still talking about 25% more fuel usage for the same power. I think you're right about the conventional turbo too - it'd be closer, but still not matching the electric turbo.

[@AlexLTDLX]

derek - that's true too.

[@802Garage]

@@derekmaxwell8164 Yeah I was also thinking part of the losses for the supercharger are the hotter air. Of course his intercooler system seems pretty beefy, so I wonder what the pre and post cooler IAT comparison is.

[@802Garage]

@@AlexLTDLX I mean F1 probably has a reason for using a hybrid electric turbo. ;) Multiple reasons!

[@B0RN2RACE100]

Have you ever thought of putting the controller knob attached to the throttle? And have an on/off switch so there part throttle activation and have it off when not needed? Maybe it would make it more drivable and less of a nitrogen kick feel to it?

[@AlexLTDLX]

You could certainly do that. Thanks for taking the time to comment!

[@elesjuan]

I hate to say, that whipple sounds amazing.. that said, I gave up on belt driven boost because of your exact belt problems. Such a pain in the ass.

[@untamedsmiles1338]

Hi Alex, I'm getting interested in do a project. I have a question, if can the alternator and car battery keep up with prolong long distance driving from city to city. I just don't understand how the electric power consumption is being replaced fast enough to keep the turbo spinning.

[@lacdabarber405]

Happy Father’s Day to you as well

[@lacdabarber405]

Thank you so much I’m sorry I just saw your message Happy Father’s Day to you as well

[@dez7726]

The electric turbo seems like a nice setup in places where it's difficult to boost

[@AlexLTDLX]

Agreed.

[@EETechs]

@@AlexLTDLX I got an idea you can patent. Have the electric motor spool up the turbo until the electric motor can not go any faster and then have the hot gas side turbine turn the turbo past that point. To do this you would use a special bearing called a sprag bearing. This bearing allows something that spins faster take over the slower drive. It's a one way drive bearing basically, but can be used as I described. Automatic transmissions use this type of bearing. Hence, why you can cruse in drive (In letter D, not 1, 2 or 3) but still give the car more gas for more speed without the engine causing a braking effect.

[@AlexLTDLX]

I think some OEM has actually already done that. I know Audi has a stand-alone small unit, but either BMW or Borg or someone is doing exactly what you're suggesting. Good thinking.

[@yujyuj2957]

​@@EETechs alternators too.. well sort of

[@santosh911]

For daily drivers, would a hybrid turbo/electric charger make sense? The electric motor could spin the turbo at very low rpm where the exhaust isn't strong enough to generate boost? And perhaps even when the turbo is on song, the electric motor could give some assistance, just to eke out a little more. I realise this video is specifically geared to drag racing, but I'm seeing where this technology may help road performance too. I'm new here, and I'm not really into drag, but the technology is intriguing.

[@AlexLTDLX]

Your thinking is right on point. In fact, Audi has been doing exactly what you're suggesting on some of their European diesel engines for a couple of years now.

[@johnnydanger57]

You are always full of information! A lot I have no clue, but some is good stuff to know! Two things... One, The altitude correction, I live at 5,500ft (desert of New Mexico ,Yes that is a state...lol) The dyno correction factor hovers around 1.22, so there is a .22% loss up here. So yours may have been reading low with the incorrect altitude correction. And second, I may have missed it, but why are you not going with a 12 or 24 volt car battery set up? Excuse my ignorance on this sparky stuff...

[@AlexLTDLX]

Lol - I'm full of something, that's for sure... The car's electrical system is 12 volts, but the electric turbo is on it's own electrical system of 63 volts (it would draw way to much current at 12 volts - over 3,000 amps! Thanks for the comment!

[@keyelectric91]

Does the motor controller you are running have field weakening? If it does and you're not using it I recommend using it you will gain more motor rpm and PSI without more volts.

[@AlexLTDLX]

You know, I don't know. But that's a good point. The VESC does, but not sure about the MGM ESC. Thanks - I'll look into that.

[@dotjalex]

Makes sense that the belt driven charger has to take its 50hp (or more with inefficiency) from the engine leaving less power going to the wheels Vs the electric charger taking that 50hp from the batteries. I would love to see what happens if you add an electric motor to the crank via a belt and add the motor power directly to the engine.

[@AlexLTDLX]

You'd add 50hp to the engine. That's kind of the beauty of this electric boost thing - we're using 50hp (well, 44 so far) to make over 200 hp from the engine. Better than a conventional hybrid.

[@mikeschiavoni5973]

Dodge is doing that now on the hemi v8 truck. Does help mpg.

[@zapa47]

I've never understood why there's is not a electric motor kit that replaces the torque converter.

[@mikeschiavoni5973]

Dodge is doing this very thing with the hemi on its trucks. The motor system in right on top so if it fails its os easy to get to. It also apears there is a clutch on the system so if it goes bad the engine will work as it did before off the crankshaft. Oddly enough there has been zero marketing around it. Ive seen it in person and it looks like a well thought out design, looks good on the enine, and the owner said it is great on the highway to save gas.

[@LujinCustom]

Where the Whipple has the advantage, is off the track. I’d love to have an electric turbo in my daily 4 banger, if it was even remotely practical

[@AlexLTDLX]

You could certainly program the electric turbo to mimic the behavior of the Whipple; oddly enough, to build a relatively low-power unit (like for a typical 4 cylinder), it would be cheaper to build on of these than buy a supercharger kit for it. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment!

[@user-us3vq4th9d]

What is the model of the electric motor inn? Where can I find one?

[@AlexLTDLX]

It's an LMT motor controlled by an MGM ESC. You need to order them from MGM directly: www.mgm-controllers.com/

[@anomamos9095]

One of Toyota’s early hybrids simply hung a motor like an alternator and spun the crank. This was a forty to sixty horse power motor that could move a 1500kg vehicle without the gas engine. Strapping one or two of these to an engine might be a very interesting experiment. You could also use them to drive a supercharger.

[@paradiselost9946]

the only real advantage to hybrid is running the engine at peak efficiency as required. and a simple driveline with fewer moving components. theres a thing called "jacobs law". it basically means the maximum power transfer is when the resistance of the load is equal to the resistance of the source. at which point, HALF the power is dissipated in the generator or "source". an electric motor is only "efficient" once you do things like drive 1kw motors from a 10MW powerstations... when you try and drive 1kw motors from 1kw generators, you get limited to 500W as half is in each side... to get 1kw out means they both require 1kw each, or 2kw in total to drive it... see the issue? its a topic no-one talks about when dealing with generators, motors, batteries... and its bloody crucial! its very logical if you realise that a generator is no more than the demonstration of lenz law, eddy currents in conductors, with a magnet being dropped down a copper pipe. take that concept to its logical conclusion, when you cut a slit in the pipe and place a resistance in there... wheres the work being done and what heats up, and how much reaction or "fight" will the magnet experience? thing about most cars is all the power is used when accelerating, cruising is just rolling resistance and air friction stuff... and when a car is accelerating, the engine is often running far from its peak efficiency zone... flames only really like one certain set of conditions to propagate correctly, valves, cams, manifolds, everything adds up for unique RPM for any engine... and when its not running at that point, its not as efficient. simple. so the hybrid with its little motor revving away at peak efficiency, coupled with batteries, allows for that "boost" when accelerating, yet give sufficient overhead when cruising to actually recharge those batteries. but overall it really is a step backwards. no matter how good the battery is, its an archaic process of corrosion of a metal electrode, followed by subsequent replating of that metal onto the electrode. how much power goes into the PLATING process, and how much power is lost as heat driving current through this cell? and what sort of structure is formed when the current is producing excess heat, the reaction to fast? "yay, superchargers and rapid charging".... another topic no-one really wants to delve into as it starts to highlight even more issues... ummmm.... "thomson transmission". early attempt, generator/motor at the flywheel/diff. connected via two shafts connected to planetary boxes. a series of clutches and brakes would allow for selecting various ratios by using one or the other motors/generators in various configurations. no batteries. just an electric/mechanical drive. a sort of electrical version of a modern automatic transmission.... cant find much online when i try looking, but i give up easily.. only a description in an ancient book... try "rankine kennedy, modern engines" obviously a flop. though i wouldnt mind having a go at recreating it with two BLDCs and some drill gearboxes... meh. wtf would i know. insane ramblings of a dribbling fool :)

[@anomamos9095]

@@paradiselost9946 . Nice comment👍 But a bit off topic for this application of electric motors. I fully agree that EVs and hybrids are a bad joke played on gullible fools who think a harmless gas that is actually responsible for the existence of all life on the planet will somehow magically cause it to burn due to the very tiny amounts humans add to the atmosphere. The suggested application of an electric motor in my comment has nothing to do with fuel efficient and emissions and everything to do with blasting a vehicle down a measured distance as fast as physics will allow.

[@anomamos9095]

@@paradiselost9946 . Yes , other than a quarter mile run or inertia recovery for fast corner existing any for of hybrid is almost pointless. However there are some gains to be had if done right. Most EVs and hybrids sold to the general population are nothing but wasteful virtue signalling wanker mobiles. They tend to try and maximise the wrong things in the wrong way and simply get everything wrong except the marketing BS. Most gullible morons think that a EV if it uses half its range to get up a hill will get it all back and more coming down again, while the marketing gurus have never stated this as a fact they often use suggestive terms and open ended statements to hint that this is how things work leading the climate cult scam victims to think they’re getting a free ride. As for racing. The use of large high pressure air tanks dumping down the throat of a big engine has been one of the most ingenious boost methods that I have seen on a drag car. As things go except for the potential for a lithium type conflagration it lighter and vastly more efficient than any other form of supercharging. Electric supercharging has some benefits if gotten right. Using lithium batteries and super capacitors you could possibly get a sufficient duration for a land speed run, also as an adjunct to a normal turbo to work as an anti lag it has possibilities.

[@jimmyschock9395]

If you dont get good torque figures and rpm how do you get good hp numbers being that torque and rpm are how you calculate horsepower? Ive heard this said before on dyno runs and never understood it.

[@AlexLTDLX]

A chassis dyno (inertia dyno) measures how fast a fixed mass is accelerated. That gives you horsepower through a calculation. But torque requires an RPM signal, and is specifically derived - technically, also a calculation, but somewhat different. And without engine speed, it's impossible to derive torque. Which is why Dynojets' default is hp vs mph, not rpm. Because mph is pretty much a direct measurement based on the circumference of the drum. You can get eddy current brakes for most chassis dynos, and those can measure torque directly, but only in steady-state (i.e. fixed rpm). Keep in mind torque is a force, but torque by itself can't do any work, so torque isn't power. Power is defined by terms like horsepower or watts. From an electrical perspective, torque is like amps, horsepower is like watts and rpm is like voltage. Hope this helps.

[@poortouringhotwiregarage5617]

How long will the electric motor work?? Guessing it wouldn't be practical on a street / highway driven vehicle

[@AlexLTDLX]

As long as you need it to - especially if it's mounted in a place with decent air flow. It's completely practical on a street/highway vehicle. Keep in mind, 99% of the time driving around in traffic (or even at least 60% of the time on a road course), you're not in boost, so the system is effectively off. We've done entire track and dyno days and have never needed to recharge the batteries.

[@brandonblack119]

Any thoughts or advice trying the electric supercharger 1 or even 2 on a 2015 Porsche panamera 4.8ltr v8 4s model? It only has around 400hp with exhaust intakes and a meth kit

[@AlexLTDLX]

Check out my latest video - one of those would work pretty well, and be affordable to boot.

[@scottc78]

Happy Father's Day to you as well! Took my girls out in the RS3 to get some ice cream. Just a regular turbo in that, but it sure runs nice on E85. My random Whipple guess is 9.7@138mph. Curious, once your converter is dialed in, could you potentially have the Sledgehammer provide boost off the line at launch?

[@AlexLTDLX]

Thanks. The RS3 is a nice car (I had a bunch of Audis, but no real "performance" ones - a 200 (remember those?), an A4 and two A6s - the A4 and A6s all had the 2.8 V6 in it). Your guess on the Whipple is a good one; but I don't want to give it away before the next vid's out. We were leaving with the Sledgehammer spooled up at the track (which is the only thing that let it get up on the two step and run in the 1.5's to the 60' mark); but with a working converter, I fully expect low 1.4's or even a high 1.3 if it'll hook. That's solid wheels-up territory.

[@scottc78]

@@AlexLTDLX Np, Def don't spoil the Whipple answer! I've had several fast cars, but the RS3 is by far the best all around one I've had. Not too big, but still room in the back seat, easy to drive, rips off 0-60 in 3 sec flat on the street in summer tires, and a super unique sound. I couldn't touch any 60' times like you're talking though, that's swallow your own tongue territory lol.

[@kennethdurkin8621]

​@@AlexLTDLXhow much boost can those electric turbos make. Just curious, i just put a Borg warner s400sxe on my excursion, im making about 35lbs...can the elec do that? Of you can engage tje elec turbo whenever, it might make a great small turbo in a twin set up...probably b sick, remove the lag of a big ass turbo by using an elec to spool it...sign me up

[@AlexLTDLX]

@@kennethdurkin8621 Boost psi doesn't tell me anything - you could make 35 psi and only 200 hp or you can make 35 psi and 2,000 hp. I go into it in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mWjHn41rrt6Wj9k Hp level is what's important. But yes, you can stack up multiple units (either twin or compound) to get to any hp level. The easier/cheaper P2 units can support 650hp a piece, the Sledgehammer can support about 800 hp by itself. The big advantage is you'd see about 25 psi with the electric units to make the same power the conventional turbos do at 35 psi.

[@paulplack490]

If altitude defaults to 4500' and the actual MSL is much lower, the dyno software is going to apply much more correction than is appropriate. The e-turbo may have actually produced more power.

[@AlexLTDLX]

In the end, they seem to have made basically the same power - the difference being it took the Whipple 15 psi and the e-turbo only 6 psi. If you look at the pump gas timeslips at the beginning of this video (with the Whipple): kzbin.info/www/bejne/oGm2f6JtoNWWrtksi=vRgLyCnpqnHHTIgX and compare them to the 9 second timeslip with the e-turbo from this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iIWTfmtura2thLMsi=uHLM-TeQgwjSZVsG, they ran almost identical times and MPH. Considering the weather was a bit worse on the e-turbo day, and it doesn't have nearly as many track passes to optimize things, the e-turbo may actually make a little more power, but it's very, very close.

[@wreckum56]

Does density altitude affect the blowers,turbos as far as air density as it does in aircraft wings for lift?

[@AlexLTDLX]

It's a good question and yes it does. Generally it results in an increase of impeller or rotor speed when the air is thinner. But not always; it depends where in the compressor map you have to be. If you're not going into choke then you probably will not see any significant increase.

[@wreckum56]

I always wondered that but I figured it did but with all the computer controllers I figured it was already incorporated into the final map.

[@ChurchAutoTest]

Great data dump. Interesting to see the difference in fuel consumption. Whipples are relatively efficient for the type of compressor that they use, but will never match a centrifugal compressor, and that's before we look at the benefits of electric drive vs. engine/belt drive. That said, assuming dyno results are similar, and that we are losing some power through the driveline, the fuel consumption numbers would say the Whipple is producing an extra 150 hp that is being sucked up by the drive losses. That's a number that really doesn't pass the smell test. We see much bigger blowers using in the area of 120-150 hp to move enough air to produce 1200+ whp. The answer is probably somewhere in the datalogs, but the first place I would check would be the fuel system, to see if fuel pressure is dropping and requiring increasing injector duty cycle as load goes up. Obviously the electric/centri setup will require less fuel in the first place, so may not be getting into an area where fuel pressure would drop. Again, great stuff.

[@AlexLTDLX]

You bring up some good points, but they can be explained. Google "Lysholm compressor map" - in the image search find the map for a 2300 (not a 3300) - that's what I have. The first gen Whipples were actually Lysholms (which is now owned by Vortech, oddly enough). Anyway, I was running a 2.9:1 pulley ratio; so at peak power it was spinning at 17,500 rpm. Which puts it a good bit off the compressor map. You can extrapolate that it takes at least 90kW to drive it that fast at a PR of 2:1. That's about 120 hp. Add in that it's only about 54% efficient up there, and there's your answer. Think of this: when it threw the belt, it was so violent, that the belt had enough energy to go around the inner apron and hit the fender from the back side, still having enough energy to make a pretty major dent, and knock the paint off. The Sledgehammer is also entering the less efficient part of it's map, but nowhere near as bad. And there are things we can do to Sledgehammer to move the map to the right and improve its efficiency. We'll get to those in due time.

[@ChurchAutoTest]

@@AlexLTDLX Thanks for the response. Yes, I suppose if you're overdriving something way out of its design range losses could get rather large.

[@AlexLTDLX]

That seems to be the story of my boosted life. I've literally never owned a super charger that wasn't at least a little too small for the application...

[@DennisMurphey]

Have any experience with the van pumps like Vortech? I have never had a Turbo. I used Roots type Blowers On Rats and LS1 & LS3, Vortech on SBC Mouse. I agree the mass of the Roots type tell you that is a lot weight to deal with in Install etc. The Hit on Turbos always was the startup was so late (LAG) compared to instant on Roots. Then there was a rear mounted turbo that seems to help a lot of issues with Heat and delay. Where did that go. Then My wife needed to update her Volvo. We love the Volvo S60 AWD for her. Safe and reliable, but this 2018 has a sport mode in the transmission that makes you wonder what is under the hood. It's the same 4 banger but with a Turbo and a Roots Blower???? Last night as i was watching some older videos it came to me that the Electric Motor will do exactly as it's told. I worked in the tuning of all my engines just enough to see the impacts via the computer control. And my other hobby is Hot Rodding my 1950 Model Train. I had to do a lot of closed loop control to get my 3D Printed Smoke Housing to survive 17 volts of AC Track power. And I am a retired engineer in medical, Automation and Robotic Systems. So now we have RPM control over the Air Pump not just reacting to RPM/Pressure with Fuel. Well Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And when i needed to cool of the controllers in the tender of my latest Steam Engine a Blower fan on 5 volts off my 3D Printer was easy to install, simple to regulate 5V to and only needed to move some air not 100% exchange every minute. So everything I have seem from your video makes perfect sense. And the traces show you are watching the key elements and tuning accordingly. AFR, IAT, exhaust, fuel flow, Air Flow, al that points to a Smart Controller to match RPM of the drive motor to Gas Pedal position, rate of change up or down, fuel flow, Air Flow, O2 sensor, AFR now for the Hobbyist Hot Rodder we can see how to jack up anything we own outside/along side of factory control. I am pretty stoked and am willing to work toward a mechanical solution mounting such a device under the hood of my 2014 Corvette with LT1 and 6 speed Auto. No I do not drag race, I simply want to scare women and children and myself. It seems in less than 12 hours I can throw out all the quotes for a Vortech install $10,000, Z06 LT4 Roots Install $8,500 or any of the Magnuson variations all over $12,000. Being retired and married that wallet does not fly open because a Prius caught you sleeping at a light. But a smart solution that is cost effective certainly does. Like my Dremel based DIY CNC Mini Mill I just completed so I can machine 1936 Model Train Chassis to fit a Smoke timing gear to drive the Puff & Chuff Controllers. Internet of Things is awesome. I look forward to a good dialogue in the future. Ans once my Vette gets Supercharged I will be looking for Hub Motors to go upfront. I must have AWD Hybrid capability before I croak. I hope you may have an interest in that as time goes on. All the Best Dennis in Virginia

[@zlandicar4482]

with a capacitor battery could you power this turbo for 6 seconds? or how many would it take and how much added weight to get full Electric turbo without any draw from the engine?

[@AlexLTDLX]

Supercapacitors would be a pretty poor choice; a lot of people mentioned this idea, so I made a video a year ago explaining (and showing) why: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aGmwgJSphdCigtEsi=AOF_f02CaS5YTvwm

[@thickdaddymukbang]

How many volts and watts are you running on that electric turbocharger?

[@AlexLTDLX]

63 volts unloaded (~50 loaded), 678 amps, ~33,000 watts. You can see a real-time readout on the dragstrip in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJ23h3uhm7iEjq8

[@thickdaddymukbang]

@@AlexLTDLX wow that's impressive!!! If you made a plug n play setup for that, I'm sure it would sell LOTS!!!

[@tylerw4593]

I know you know this, but I can't help but comment that the technically correct term for your setup is an "electric supercharger". However, I do agree that the term "electric turbo" both sounds cooler and also more quickly conveys what it is.

[@AlexLTDLX]

I call it that only because people search for "electric turbo" like 6 times more often than electric supercharger. Looking at my analytics, that factor keeps changing, but it's never been less than 4 to 1 but it has been as high as 10 or 11 to 1.

[@svrider2006s]

This is my kinda jam

[@curvs4me]

The development is unbelievable! Intake air and parasitic drag is the destroyer of supercharger efficiency. The electric turbo combined with regular turbos is going to be the end of the supercharger. I'm shocked beyond belief that you are the only one seriously pursuing turbo electrification outside OEs. It's an absolute game changer. For anything less than 3.5 liters it could change the world of racing. A tiny motor could run a huge 98mm with an electric turbo to eliminate spooling issues. Once you get the unit all worked out, you could retire on the market return. The next step is figuring out the simplest solution to run it in conjunction with a standard turbo. I was thinking about just giving it an electric butterfly valve, an electric throttle body maybe two depending on airflow requirements. This would close off the primary intake until transition from electric to exhaust driven turbine. Electric fed into the inlet of the bigger turbo. Now I'm thinking about it further. Better to have the electric turbo feeding in at the discharge of the main turbo. This allows using the throttle body in the E-turbo discharge. Allowing for restriction free intake on the main turbo. Also the main turbo would still work in the event of a throttle body or E-turbo failure.

[@curvs4me]

Damn #2 doesn't work, boost would go right back out of the main turbo or try to. Dual throttle bodies on the intake manifold would work. I guess you need a way to block off both of them on the discharge side to avoid putting anything in the intake stream. There has to be a reasonably affordable way to do it. Ram style intake in place of the original throttle body mounting to facilitate dual throttle bodies is the simplest thing I can think of. Different size throttle bodies. The absolute best way would be to have a custom shaft made for the main turbo that extends out the front through a mechanical seal in a curved turbo inlet pipe. That eliminates the second turbo and boost block off problems. Definitely, a cast rigid mount to turbo in and out elbow with the mechanical seal in it, the electric motor and it's associated components and that's the kit. Would have to be a pipe with a slightly larger hole in it for the shaft to go through then reach the bearing and seal on the outside of the pipe. Would likely have to be welded or v-band added on the turbo inlet to eliminate centering issues with the elbow. An AC high motor would allow for power generation off the turbo in hybrid supercar system. It would also reduce weight and size of the conductors for the motor. One day I'm going to build a mid engine v12 with electric driven front wheels.

[@AlexLTDLX]

If I only I was that good at business, lol. I think BMW has something similar to what you're describing. Audi does have a little 7kW "booster" on their 4.0 liter diesel engines. Thanks for subscribing and commenting!

[@kennethdurkin8621]

Holy shit, i was just making this comment and then read yours, spot on

[@longsleevethong1457]

If this is sort of a temporary boost type thing how do you make up for the difference in fuel? How do you get more fuel as soon as you turn on the electric air? You can’t just add more air without fuel…..right?

[@AlexLTDLX]

You need to program the fuel enrichment into the ECU or use some sort of mechanical device like an FMU - just like any other supercharger of turbocharger.

[@longsleevethong1457]

@@AlexLTDLX nah. “Any other turbo” is fully functional all the time with a fuel map. Not temporary.

[@weston-lewis-1668]

Hey Alex I believe in everything you are doing and I love watching your channel. I would like to purchase your electric turbo for my 2002 Dodge Dakota 3.9 v6. How much are they?

[@jpabon18]

Build one…

[@AlexLTDLX]

Thanks - but nothing's for sale yet. If it does happen, it'll most likely be "modules" - compressor/motor; battery packs, control units, ESCs - mostly for liability reasons and because everyone's needs are different.

[@johnnydanger57]

@@sinfulserpentful Yeah, Cletus Mcfarland mounted 2 on his LS a while back.

[@docfischer7291]

Just remember, that 3.9 is a 318 with two cylinders cut out . So camshaft and piston selection as well as upgraded connecting rods and all are identical. . Not sure who has performance pieces for that but anyone who regrinds camshafts can help you . Crankshaft can be reground for stroke etc . Heads take well to porting and larger exhaust valves etc. There is a lot you can do, or just switch to a 5.2 magnum and have readily available parts . You have a a500 trans more than likely , so there are also upgrades there as well. Cope racing transmission can help with parts for it . Have fun !

[@weston-lewis-1668]

@@jpabon18I will back in 2004 my partner at work like to wrench on cars and we joked about putting a powerful leaf blower on the intake but never tried. It was his idea and I doubted him so we never tryed… Today I think about that and damn he was right just I will build one! Thank you

[@meanman6992]

The reason the super charged setup used so much more fuel is that blowers are VERY parasitic. They take a lot of power to operate especially compared to normal turbochargers or these electric EDF “turbos”. So less load on the engine for the same power.

[@A2J_Tim]

ever try dry ice in your air to water intercooler?

[@randalltufts3321]

If the electric turbo can ever match the whipple early in the run it'll be very useful. As we know races are won and lost in the first 60 feet of the track. This will tell the tale

[@AlexLTDLX]

It certainly can - right now it turns on while on the transbrake - I posted this link in another comment on another video you posted - but check out the track performance - it pulls the front tires (barely, but there's some daylight) with the electric supercharger: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iIWTfmtura2thLM

[@Stinky_Couch_Pickle]

WOW! If OP was an engine builder

[@AlexLTDLX]

I have built an engine or two in my time, but for the time involved, these days I'd rather pay someone I trust to do it - I was fortunate enough to have that person nearby for years, but now in my new place I won't have that luxury anymore.

[@spiritualinsight]

How do the sledgehammer compare to the torqamp?

[@AlexLTDLX]

No comparison at all - the torqamp is good for about 200 hp. The Sledgehammer is good for 800-850 hp: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iIWTfmtura2thLM

[@poopl00p3r]

how would a compound electric turbo setup perform? and also what about electric superchargeres? not really questions just tryna make people wonder.

[@AlexLTDLX]

I intend to test those questions as soon as the new Alex Labs is built and the dyno is installed - because I want to know the answers, too.

[@jayknight139]

this was technically an electric supercharger. instead of belt driven it was battery driven.

[@ulisesmedrano3382]

I wonder attaching the 53hp motor to a ARM 500 mini compressor, can it be done

[@AlexLTDLX]

I'm sure it could.

[@slopoke22]

Dynos are for talkers anyway. Dyno tuning is entirely different! The real measure is at the track for real. I like that you have a decent engine and stuff for these tests. Cool little deal. Bet it's fun to drive on the street!

[@AlexLTDLX]

Couldn't agree more!

[@streamlobby2341]

this is sooooo coool

[@AlexLTDLX]

Thanks for the kind words!

[@NCMATT]

Happy dad's day

[@AlexLTDLX]

Thx. If you're a dad, same to you. If not, that's ok too - thanks for watching and subscribing!

[@jrharbar]

I have a strange question... can you use a small cvt transmition on a supercharger ? I mean well you know its usefull for low RPM engines to have a variable RPM supercharger, its a supid idea but yeah we are humans who dont build car engines to airplain engines boost tolerances you know.... would love to see an answer or explenation why it would be a dumb idea

[@AlexLTDLX]

I don't think it's a dumb idea. But it is a bit impractical - a positive displacement supercharger (like the Whipple) will give you full boost instantly at any rpm; while a centrifugal is more efficient. The electric supercharger is the best of both worlds - you can have full boost at any rpm with the efficiency of the centrifugal with the added efficiency of not robbing engine power to spin it.

[@jrharbar]

@@AlexLTDLX I do understand your point., but ivce always heard people squinting about superchargers being a bit to agresive, and harmfull, and reduces engine lifespan., the turbo well turbo lag., yes thingking about it really hard a cvt can give you a gradual boost well soft of thank you for answering, your awsome

[@gwizzfpv6741]

Very interesting ,could you do one for a Harley Davidson Sportster 1200 carb model

[@AlexLTDLX]

I could, but if I started making these one-off for people right now, I'd be busy until long after I was dead and I'd have to charge a small fortune for each on to be viable. But I am trying to figure out what the optimum combinations are to be viable (read: affordable). You can join our forum at www.electrifiedboost.com - there are a bunch of us working on these for a variety of applications. It's not unreasonable to think that I might be able to provide "modules" - motors/compressors, ESCs and battery packs for people in the future, though.

[@gwizzfpv6741]

@@AlexLTDLX meany thanks your work and knowledge is amazing ,like your videos alot

[@jfseaman1]

Any new or upgraded DynoJet Dyno with the new RT stack and WinPeP8 software does not have altitude. Much more realistic, repeatable and differences from smoothing choice can be calculated.

[@knightrousoxide]

When do we see an electric whipple setup?

[@jakekiedaisch2279]

There wouldn't be much point, since the sledgehammer is already an electric supercharger. It's just a centrifugal supercharger instead of a roots/twin-screw style. If you drove a whipple with an electric motor you would get slightly less power since centrifugal superchargers are more efficient at compressing air to make boost.

[@AlexLTDLX]

Probably never - it'd take an electric motor with more torque and less rpm. Which means a bigger motor; with the size of the whipple to begin with, an electric whipple would be pretty huge and massive; plus the centrifugal compressor's more efficient. But thanks for watching and taking the time to comment!

[@gregthemechanicman]

add the electric turbo back on the whipple setup as a "forced" forced induction setup.. I'd assume it would have the same benefit of a compound turbo setup.. quicker spool and better off the line performance becuase the supercharger is coupled to the engine so that gain is static.. I'm curious as to how adding the electric turbo on top of that would work out in reality.. you could hit the turbo hard before you even left the line and use that boost to help in the times the blower is at low rpm. I'd bet that graph would jump sky high and just hold power straight through just as the supercharer did ..it would just do it a lot earlier.

[@gregthemechanicman]

to add to that.... would the parasitic losses from the belt driven superchager be less due to the blower not having to work as hard compressing the air?? THE MIND BOGGLES.

[@joek4721]

@@gregthemechanicman although both do the same job differently, they're both doing the same thing, which is compressing atmospheric cfm into a smaller space. If you have 2 "devices" compressing, then the sizing of the 2 adjusts accordingly. Let's say the pressure you need is 14.7psi, or 2.0 pressure ratio, done over 2 stages of compression. Since compounds multiply boost, we have to square root that pressure ratio to find that each stage needs to compress at 1.4. To make this simple, that essentially means that whatever is feeding the whipple, has to be 1.4x's as big, or move 1.4x's as much air at the same pressure ratio. The required electrical power would skyrocket.

[@AlexLTDLX]

I would, but the Whipple is just so big, heavy and inefficient; however, I might try two electric units in a compound setup. I do sincerely appreciate you watching, taking the time to subscribe and comment. Thanks, Gregory!

[@jadz684z]

I dont feel I can guess properly cause if it took half the psi on the electric to get relatively simular results that says a lot about the parasitic losses of the whipple, and that just throws off my thought process

[@AlexLTDLX]

TBH, it's a bit of a trick question... thanks for all your support, Joe!

[@dreece2000]

How much power does the electric motor make?

[@AlexLTDLX]

It's rated for 53 hp; we've pushed 44 hp at the track. I put the power (in watts; 746 watts = 1 hp) over the dragstrip passes in realtime in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJ23h3uhm7iEjq8

[@nickstith172]

The question I'm looking for

[@taemookgang9973]

When can I buy this?

[@AlexLTDLX]

I'm pretty sure these will become far more common in the near future. We may even start selling certain parts in the next year or so.

[@taemookgang9973]

@@AlexLTDLX I want to put on the product you made first and feel it

[@marianolozano392]

We’re can I get 1

[@royallovel]

The secret of electric booster is based on the electric motor rpm!!! the faster the electric motor can run the better boost it gets. Buy a EDF jet that can reach 100.000rpm you will make a super-over-charged.😮

[@Joedoeswhat]

So electric turbo is it controlled by a motor instead of the exhaust gases this is the 1st time of i

[@rdallas81]

Yes

[@tristangillis7365]

Me: Yes, the electric turbo is less parasitic, more effecient, all that. Also me: Still want the whipple.

[@AlexLTDLX]

There is something to be said for that whine...

[@eldiabloblanco8787]

Sir I respectfully disagree. Torque numbers are much more important than total horsepower. Torque moves you H.P just shows top speed potential. Give me a torque monster over something that only makes real power at some ridiculously high rpm any day. Great information on the two types of induction but would love to see the torque numbers.

[@AlexLTDLX]

Torque is a force. It can do no work by itself. You need time and distance to do any work. You can apply 100 ft-lbs to a truck's lug nut, but it won't move - i.e. no work is done. I think the point you're trying to make is you'd rather have low end torque. While it seems good in theory, there is a major problem with low end torque - because you have a low number of combustion events, you start to generate massive cylinder pressure. Eventually, that cylinder pressure will break things (ask me how many pistons and blocks I've destroyed over the years). Many of the custom forced induction setups I've built were of the positive displacement variety - which make insane low end torque. Plus, you have other issues - traction becomes a problem and too much low end torque means tall gearing and then it becomes difficult to build a torque converter that doesn't incur excessive slip at the top of the rpm band, because the rpm band is short. That's actually where I'm at now - I'd like to add about 500 rpm to my shift point - the car will be faster. In fact, if you have 2 cars that both make 500 hp, but one does it at 5,000 rpm and the other makes 500 hp at 7,000 rpm, and both are geared optimally for their power band, the 7,000 rpm car will be faster. I might make a video about that explaining why it happens.

[@acurarl9929]

Torque converter sitting to deep in the trans not allowing fluid to flow right causing you to cook converters. Worth double checking

[@mjs28s]

Wait, if you don't get good torque numbers on a dyno with a glide then your horse power numbers are also not good since HP is derived from torque. If the input is bad (torque numbers) the output isn't accurate. But if you are proud of the HP curve and believe it to be accurate then you have to believe that the torque that is measured that is then use to calculate the horsepower is also accurate.

[@AlexLTDLX]

Chassis dynos don't measure torque, they derive it (unless they have an eddy current brake for steady state tuning, but that's a different story). Chassis dynos measure acceleration of a fixed mass, which is why you can't even get torque numbers without an rpm pickup and why Dynojet's default readout is hp vs mph.

[@randallwarren9096]

Why haven't you hooked up jetting and started moving to those Turbo yet? You know that I have the RPM junior and the power.

[@AlexLTDLX]

I'm not sure I understand your question.

[@clintonsmith9931]

It seems as tho I remember a electric supercharger like this back in early 1970s or there about. It was a dead ringer to this one. Hard to remember much about it. Must not have flew very far, it didn’t last long. Just like GM in the 70s had a experimental blow thru carb Ventura blow thru using a air pump on the EGR system with a tank to hold volume of air . Depended on high pressure. Didn’t fly far either. Wouldn’t want to try passing a car going 75 on the freeway. Just think halfway around and no boost and a truck coming over the hill. Maybe eight mile race, but fast turn around would kill the batteries fast.

[@AlexLTDLX]

There is no comparison between the old stuff and modern brushless technology. The Sledgehammer uses a 53 horsepower motor to drive it. And we have yet to need to charge the 62 pound battery pack during any dyno day or track day: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iIWTfmtura2thLMsi=FNJxCo766yVTDnji

[@cartermackenzie1135]

Now imagine if you used two of them, or made a bigger one

[@AlexLTDLX]

I now have three of them...

[@cartermackenzie1135]

@@AlexLTDLX on one car!?

[@AlexLTDLX]

I want to do comparisons of twins, compound and twins + compound electric supercharging.

[@cartermackenzie1135]

@@AlexLTDLX I can't wait!!!

[@555_shoe]

Nice setup, but don´t forget also that the wipple is driven by the crank. Therfore from the engine power. The electric one runs from the battery!

[@AlexLTDLX]

Yep. Extrapolating from the Whipple's compressor map (it was way over sped), it was drawing about 120 hp (90kW) from the crank to spin it.

[@randysmith9363]

That Whipple should be capable of more power than that if you have a stand alone system you can adjust your fuel numbers and timing advance you should be able to dial at all in and gained another 50 horse any Dino operator should tell you that information good luck and try to post another video with that being properly tuned

[@Iowa599]

Make a kit that will install in (almost) any car, in a few minutes. Like a "nitrous ina bag" kit, to destroy rental cars with!

[@AlexLTDLX]

LOL - Reminds me of the old joke: Q: What's the fastest car in the world? A: A rental car.

[@Iowa599]

@@AlexLTDLX ROFLMAO!!!

[@MJPilote]

And then people wonder why rentals are so expensive.

[@rickt1866]

i find this so hard to buy into - not saying it isn't so just hard.

[@AlexLTDLX]

I can see why you think that. Check out how the sledgehammer did when we added methanol at the track: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iIWTfmtura2thLM

[@protator]

Lol. Where does the Whipple get its power from? The crank. Where does the turbo get its power from? An external battery pack that doesn't get its juice from the engine/alternator. That electric turbsky pulls how much? 30, 40KW? If you want to compare numbers you should play fair. Factoring in the 30 hp difference in output and the parasitic losses of the belt drive, I'd say the motor itself makes around 100 hp more with the Whipple setup. So of course it needs more boost and juice to do that when it can't cheat its own power demands in from outside the system like the electric turbo does with its large pre-charged battery pack. With proper altitude settings that difference might only be 50 hp, still doesn't change the fact that you're not comparing apples to apples. For a daily driver the ability to control the turbo independent from crank rpm could make a big difference for responsiveness, but on a drag strip I'd be surprised if there were a significant difference in efficiency. Can you run the turbo hours on end without frying the motor or ESC? Cause if you'd need to add a cooling solution for that, its power requirements (pump, fans etc) also have to be considered.

[@AlexLTDLX]

You're giving to Whipple too much credit. It can melt 10-15lbs of ice in a single low10 second/high 9 second pass. At full tilt, it's only reaching about 50% adiabatic efficiency. Then add in the 70-90 hp it pulls from the crank. It's a massive heat pump that needs a lot of external help to push 800-900 crank hp. And as you add boost, you add heat, and you need to pull timing. The Sledgehammer, being limited by available motor and control technology, is forced to run in the 75% efficiency range, with no draw from the crank. It's also only making 6 psi at max engine hp, so it generates much less heat, allowing much more timing. This is why the Sledgehammer can make the same crank hp as the Whipple at a little more than a third of the boost. You certainly can't run either for "hours on end," nor can I think of a situation where you could physically do that. Let's say you had a an opportunity to run 10 miles flat-out without lifting (you can't even come close to doing that on any part of the autobahn or any race track that I know of). You'd need at least 400 lbs of ice on board to keep the Whipple cool for that period of time (which, incidentally, would only last about 4 minutes), you can certainly run the electric turbo for that long (in fact, you could run it almost 10 times longer before you drained the battery - and it doesn't need additional cooling because it's in a place of high airflow already - which you can't do with the Whipple because it's belt driven). Of course, long before you hit the ten mile mark, you would've careened off into a tree or a ditch or simply have gone airborne, with any of those outcomes resulting in a horrific crash that would make the news, probably globally, and most likely you'd win a Darwin award in the process.

[@fixyourautomobile]

You've succeeded in building something that blows harder than (celebrity) , (verb) (a random object) at a church on a Sunday.

[@AlexLTDLX]

lol

[@napraznicul]

Those engine which you dyno'ed are DIESEL? The powercurve vs. rpm's are like would be a diesel modified without care about heads, otherwise a good rac8ng diesel got peak power at some 5500rpm and run slightly over 6000rpm. My poor wagon street daily diesel have peak power at 5300rpm and peak torque at @3100rpm, more "sporty" than your tested engine which supposed to be a dragrace prepaired engine...

[@AlexLTDLX]

Your diesel would be an outlier - most diesels I'm familiar with don't rev anywhere close to that high. Even new diesel trucks usually make peak power at 3,000 rpm or less - with a ton of torque, and a massively heavy rotating assembly - terrible for high revs and even worse for acceleration. My engine is a street engine - I'd like to see maybe another 500 rpm out of it to help the converter lock up a bit better on the big end, but I don't need more - it's already a 9 second car and I do not want to gut the interior or put a full roll cage in it (which you have to have to run 9's). It's also only 8.8:1 compression, but has a Dart block and a good rotating assembly. It runs on 93 octane, can be driven anywhere and requires virtually no maintenance. It's really designed to be a durable test bed for all these forced induction experiments. Yes, I could put a bigger cam in it, slap a conventional turbo or two on it and run at least 8's, if not high 7's - but that's not the point and would ruin the car. I like power windows, power trunk releases, having a stereo, inflating lumbar supports, etc.

[@xFourTwenty117]

Put the electric motor on to the whipple??

[@AlexLTDLX]

That's a thought, but man, that would be massive and heavy. The lower rpm the electric motor, the more torque it needs to make at the same power, and the bigger it is. Thanks for watching, taking the time to comment and subscribing!

[@xFourTwenty117]

@@AlexLTDLX But it would sound pretty mean though ;)

[@AlexLTDLX]

That's certainly true. Those PD blowers scream.

[@davelowets]

Boost is boost.... The reason the electric version makes more power is because it isn't robbing power from the crankshaft to provide it.

[@SystemScandll]

Isn't it ironic, don't you think?

[@acurarl9929]

Iat on electric turbo????

[@AlexLTDLX]

The video I just posted has IATs both with the myth and without the methanol.

[@user-ls7fn6zb6d]

What about a RC jet turbine

[@AlexLTDLX]

I actually want to try that. I don't think it would make much (not designed for pressure), but it should make something.

[@vintagespeedshop]

How do you get horse power figures without Torque? Horse power is torque x rpm. No wonder the Whipple injector duty cycle was so high it had an average AFR of 10.78 and as low as 9.9 just flooding it. Run the electric supercharger at 9.78 - 10.9 you will probably loose 75+hp.

[@AlexLTDLX]

A chassis dyno doesn't measure torque. It measures horsepower by accelerating a drum of a known weight, and then calculates the torque. At peak power, AFR on the Whipple was in the 11's - safe, but not overly rich. You're getting thrown by the tip-in enrichment. The electric setup doesn't suffer from the same issue because of the way it's activated.

[@vintagespeedshop]

Sorry dude that is total BS. You can not measure horsepower without torque!!!! Horse power is a calculation Torque x R.P.M. / 5252. I challenge you to prove me wrong. And will give you a thanks of $100 if you can. Your dyno readout said the Whipple average AFR was 10.78 which is far too rich. Run both chargers with the same AFR, Same timing and same intercooler and post a apples to apples run.

[@AlexLTDLX]

Straight from Dynojet's documentation: "The torque on a dyno's drum CAN BE CALCULATED by multiplying the force applied to the drum's radius. Therefore, tachometer readings are necessary to CALCULATE and display engine torque." Without a tach pickup, you can't get accurate torque numbers from most chassis dynos for this exact reason. This is also why dynojet's default graph option is horsepower vs MPH and not horsepower vs engine rpm. There are exceptions - if you pay for the eddy brake option, or use a water brake dyno (like an engine stand dyno), you can measure torque at a particular rpm. But the fundamental operating principle of a chassis dyno has no method of measuring torque directly - it MUST be calculated, and the calculations are roughly based on the mass of the drum, its radius and its rate of acceleration. Which is exactly why higher horsepower cars have shorter dyno pull durations. I look forward to the $100 superthanks. As for apples to apples - you're right, if I put the same A/W intercooler on the electric turbo, it would make even more power as the Whipple is only running at about 50% adiabatic efficiency, while the Sledgehammer is in the 75% range; and of course, the Whipple is robbing 70-90 hp from the crank, while the Sledgehammer draws nothing from the crank. The Whipple needs to run richer to be safe because it's generating so much more heat - check out my channel for videos of blown up pistons where I learned that lesson the hard way. With less boost, there's less heat, which allows for more spark advance; and with higher efficiency, there's less heat and more power - all these things conspire to allow the Sledgehammer to make the same power at 6 psi as the Whipple makes at 15. It's not even close.

[@AlexLTDLX]

Except a chassis dyno fundamentally DOES NOT HAVE A LOAD CELL. Therefore, torque MUST be calculated. Can you add a load cell to a chassis dyno? Sure. It's an OPTIONAL add-on part of the eddy brake assembly used for steady state tuning (at least on Dynojets) . It adds quite a bit of cost to a Dynojet which is why so many are sold without them. Since torque is calculated (technically, derived), as I've already said, a chassis dyno doesn't need a load cell to spit out horsepower curves, but without a tach pickup, you can't get a torque numbers at all. Time to moved a fixed mass is POWER while torque is a FORCE. Therefore, you cannot measure torque with time in the equation; but you could calculate (derive) it, with a whole bunch of additional information, which is what a chassis dyno does. I make a very simple breakdown of the difference in this video at 6:24 (this link will take you right there): kzbin.info/www/bejne/mWjHn41rrt6Wj9ksi=t_GBxpaVsQobCUv_&t=384 Feel free to send me that $100 anytime.

[@Slowmo896]

If you use a electric turbo you’ve got to increase the drain on the electric system which drains power it’s self ? So……why..

[@AlexLTDLX]

Because it runs off it's own battery packs which don't need to be recharged in a day of racing or dyno testing. It's also cheaper, easier to install (and remove), lighter, and most importantly makes far more power per psi than any conventional supercharger or turbocharger can dream of.

[@07ua]

Привет из Украины) стоит ли делать электро турбо на гольф 4 1.4л 70 лс

[@AlexLTDLX]

Я б сказав, що так. слава україні!

[@07ua]

@@AlexLTDLX Героям Слава! Запануєм і ми браття у своїй сторінці 🎉

[@nhbountyhunter]

I know I keep commenting on videos that are over a year old but I just found your channel. Can we stop calling them electric turbos? Can we just call them electro chargers? I only do this because I keep seeing people saying I knew turbos were more efficient than superchargers. It's simply does not the case. It's possible a centrifugal compressor is more efficient than a roots or screw type. You can have a centrifugal compressor on either a turbo or supercharger. I just think it's confusing for some people and it starts arguments that don't need to be started.

[@AlexLTDLX]

I've only been referring to it as an "electric turbo" because many more people search for that rather than "electric supercharger." But you're right.

[@nhbountyhunter]

@@AlexLTDLX I get it. After reading my comment I gotta sorry it sounded standoffish or egotistical. I was not trying to be.

[@gordowg1wg145]

OK? It seems you are rather confused if you are focussing an the claimed altitude, and not the actual data that is important - the pressure, temperature and, to a lesser extent, the humidity! It may also be a good idea to pick up a simple ' fluid flow" program, as some of those manifold designs are horrendous. Still an interesting, if flawed, presentation.

[@AlexLTDLX]

"Density altitude" is a term that takes temperature, pressure & humidity into account. I certainly wouldn't call the manifold design "horrendous" - there may be compromises for packaging, but the runner lengths, plenum volume and spread aren't accidental.

[@NCMATT]

I'm in to rc"s

[@LSpower7.0]

I wouldn't have either 550hp Turbo is the way to go I make more than that N/A

[@meanman6992]

Boost is irrelevant imo for the most part, I wana know airflow numbers preferably mass… like lb/min.

[@AlexLTDLX]

That's exactly the right question to ask - I do a lot of "deep dive" type videos when I go into detail on stuff. This one might be a good place to start: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mWjHn41rrt6Wj9ksi=ImuaWnml2szlZYsd

[@matthewf1979]

The Whipple is a very parasitic system that takes ~100hp(that’s where all the extra fuel went)to make that much power at the wheels. The more power it makes, the more power it needs to make it. It’s fairly linear if you were to graph it out. The electric supercharger has that power stored in the batteries.

[@AlexLTDLX]

Pretty much spot on. If you pull up the Whipple's compressor map (it's actually a Lysholm 2300), you'll see it's way off the map at 17,500 rpm at peak hp, efficiency is down around 54% and drive power is around 90kW (extrapolated) - which is about 120 hp.

[@matthewf1979]

@@AlexLTDLX Now, who makes a 100kw motor and the ESC/batteries to support it? I love what you are doing with the electric supercharger system. That’s a hell of a lot of power for it’s size.

[@AlexLTDLX]

Lol. Well, there are EV drive units - but we're starting to talk about large by huge. I have to believe that with the right efficiency tweaks, 35kW is enough to support significantly more power. There's a lot in the works - meth (pre-compressor/volute injected), abradable coatings, some porting/polishing, etc. We're going to try and dyno test all of that stuff.

[@chehystpewpur4754]

look im gonna say a few things and maybe itll help. i have a sbc thats fuel injected and bad ideas keep tilling me more. do i need more absolutely. not. but that being said. my platform is 2wd. i was going to turbo but i like headers so it is a problem. i dont like superchargers as they beat the bottom end up. rods and mains for sure. we wont talk about the crank. so i looked into electric turbos or superchargers idc what u call them. i can drive regular and just have na motor/ but when i want i flip the switch and have a fun button. yes tit cost more fuel yes tit is good for breaking stuff. but why have all that power when u dont need it 99.999% of the time. that being said remember i said im 2wd. i have really been thinking about putting 2 100 hp electric motors on my front wheels. people still call me crazy but commercially available 125hp "hub" motors were available at the time of the idea. take 400+ hp and gobs of torque and proper weight transfer. add 200 hp of pulling force to it and you have a wild ass ride. regen braking or whatever big alternator i already have and plan for another for other reasons. it could be alot more useable than boost when its not applicable.