"Brown It's Down" Neighbor Rant

[@joshc3792]

I am not a landowner and got into hunting as an adult. I watch most of your deer habitat videos, because even though I don’t get to hunt like you, on land I own or lease, they help me to identify good habitat where I do get to hunt. I have always appreciated how unassuming and generous you are to the Brown Down hunters like me.

[@jfreak7589]

Well said!!!!

[@kurtpearson2793]

“Neighbor” strategy could be a fun series. Agricultural, state land, food plotters, barking dog, unhunted and horses are my neighbors. I would love insights on how to make the most of them.

[@robertltessier5601]

Unfortunately Jeff in my area you never see a buck that’s over 2.5 years of age. The brown it’s down group impacts the ability for deer to actually mature.

[@joeyallen8082]

I have neighbors that shoot anything and hunt a lot in the same area amd are noisy. It used to bother me, but not after i started watching your posts. . The deer move onto my property when the season starts. I'm learning how to keep them happy. Thank you jeff for another great post!

[@bradhendrickson7067]

I don't care how big..I'm always genuinely excited for someone, especially when they call and need help! Me , i pass , but at the same time I LOVE VENISON..

[@tsonnentag]

I have no problem with practice of "brown it's down". The chances of them tagging a buck I am after is pretty small, and the sooner they get out of the woods the better my odds become. The issue I have is with people that say "brown it's down", and then proceed to take poor shots that wound the animals and are not recovered.

[@timothymuscarello3246]

Whats up Travis!

[@tsonnentag]

@@timothymuscarello3246just learning all I can to really slay the fork horns this year musky!

[@timothymuscarello3246]

Go get em buddy! I'm trying to do the same thing

[@JBesq]

Great topic. I’m self taught and have found that with a commitment to learning comes an equal if not greater amount of work that you must commit to. Blaming neighbors or a group for poor hunting experiences is easy. Working to influence the herd and evaluating your own actions requires investment and dedication. That being said, I’ve seen piles of deer left by rack hunters and that is something every hunter should call out. Thanks Jeff and WHS for keeping it real.

[@bucksbucksoutdooradventure4973]

I love the “B Roll” Jeff some really nice bucks

[@bowman8316]

That open was hilarious ! Lol I have brown and down on 2 sides and Amish on long western border... Amish are best neighbors, by far !

[@jasondaniels209]

Jeff you just went from a 9 on my “AWESOME” radar to a 10. Thank you for saying what you’ve just said in this video. THANK YOU 🤙🏼

[@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751]

Thanks a lot Jason really means a lot to me!

[@jasondaniels209]

@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 No no my friend, thank you! I can’t do some of what you teach but I always take away info because I hunt a private parcel I cannot make many changes to but I tune in every time because there is always GOLD info that someone can take away and apply in their hunting season and techniques such as this video. I totally agree with it! Awesome. AWESOME! 👍🏼

[@LostWoodsman76]

This was refreshing to hear. The factionalization of the deer hunting community through snobbery will destroy it. Most years I'm a BID hunter, and once I went 9 years between bucks. As you correctly point out, I wasn't hurting the buck herd by slamming does! I was also impressed with your thoughts on the Amish. They are the last community it's safe to openly attack. People pick on them because they typically will not fight back; cowardice in the extreme. I would also add that talk of 'educating' other hunters that might not have the time or inclination for whatever management schemes the speaker may be into is often counterproductive. An insightful video.

[@rogerhook8002]

Healthy perspective. I like it.

[@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751]

Thank you Roger!

[@kevinkirk3156]

Neighbor of my land has their dogs running deer on our property for three years now. I've tried to be civil, but go to find out. The woman got arrested for threatening to kill someone this week. Stay safe out there guys. (and gals)

[@normyoder2622]

JEFF.,you nailed it on this one. Obviously many amish know about WHS but rarely see any comments. I would stonly incourage them to comment on or about their success on land management and or hunting. It would help WHS and show appreciation for all the hard work these guys put into putting out the the great content. It may also help in the area of Certain communities who are observed trespassing and not respecting privacy of others property

[@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751]

Amen Norm!

[@griffinbrown5056]

How many Amish have smartphones? Lol

[@KTMsoldier1988]

@@griffinbrown5056 im asking the same thing! I see amish with phones but i highly doubt they are using KZbin!

[@normyoder2622]

🤔 oh! I never thought about that🤭

[@griffinbrown5056]

I work as a forester in SW WI. I've had lots of contact with amish, and like any other sort of people, there are good and ..not so good

[@KTMsoldier1988]

I have very bad experiences with Amish neighbors! Killing lots of deer for crop damage right before season!

[@kurtpearson2793]

Great topic and conversation 👍. We have always hunted big bucks until its the end of season and it’s time to put meat in the freezer.

[@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751]

I like that strategy a lot!

[@wesleymcauly1929]

Great video Jeff

[@amosfisher1069]

Great content as usual Jeff. I've been watching your videos for over a year now, I gotta say it's the best channel around! I applied your strategies to my deer hunting, and it's been paying off! Keep up the great work!

[@YEPYEP20015]

Great perspective, thanks for the video!

[@tonysmith5785]

You rascal! You were in my hood last week helping my Amish buddies hold all my bucks! 😉😂😂

[@Mark-zz9rt]

Great point the average hunter, what I mean by average is a dad that has a kid in sports, job obligations, home maintenance etc. the average guy ony has 6 or sits during bow and maybe 2-3 sits that’s me so when I take a doe or a 1.5 or 2.5 year old buck I’m happy as hell.

[@riverman691]

I have Neihbors like that. Last year it helped me out. On opening weekend they both shot little spike bucks. There tags where filled. Left the 2.5-3.5 year Bucks for me.

[@brandonyoung7760]

My boss was raised Amish turned Mennonite. I hunt on his property and his 1 and only rule is don't shoot a deer if it's not mature. That goes for bucks or does. He's also the hardest worker I've ever seen.

[@KTMsoldier1988]

Last year my amish neighbor killed 8 bucks the week before archery season. Opposite side amish neighbor tells me all the time he wants all the deer killed! Here in central PA.

[@brandonyoung7760]

@@KTMsoldier1988 sounds like we know different types of Amish with different goals 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@kurtpearson2793]

The Amish can be very different even within the same family.

[@brandonyoung7760]

@@kurtpearson2793 personalities yes but when it comes to the rules of their particular church/community no.

[@kurtpearson2793]

@@brandonyoung7760 well, people historically don’t break rules. You are right.

[@tylersmith7355]

I think it's important to note just how wildly varied different folks' hunting situations are. In the almost 20 years that I have been hunting I have never had one single opportunity to shoot a 3.5+ year old buck. If I "held out" for a "mature" buck, I would have never pulled the trigger/released an arrow in my entire lifetime of deer hunting. Especially now being married with kids and limited hunting opportunity, I am just wasting my time and money if I don't take advantage of the handful of chances to shoot in a season. Most people don't have the land, don't have the time in the woods, don't have the financial resources, etc to really strive for shooting large bucks. It's important for the future of hunting that new hunters get exposed to positivity and encouraged to enjoy their time in the field in the way they see fit and NOT get demeaned by the elitist minority that scoffs at anything scoring less than 140".

[@stevedenoyer5956]

Like Jeff always says, it’s all relative, and most guys that pass deer do it for themselves not for others. You shoot what you want when you want. As long as it’s legal, hunters don’t really care. You want to feed your family great! I can appreciate that 100%. I pass all 2.5 year olds or try to, I strive for 3.5 year olds. It’s my preference. Hope the respect can go both ways. Have a great season!

[@TERMINATOR1959]

There are a lot of bucks to be killed that score less than 140" and more than 40". I don't care where you hunt, you can pass 18 month old deer with 4 inch spikes, forkhorns and tiny 6 points like the one in the beginning of the video and shoot a 2 1/2 year old 8 point that are a far cry from 140". All it takes it just the tiniest bit of self to control to let forkhorns and tiny 6 pointers live and focus on finding a 2 1/2 year old buck or shoot a doe. You don't have to be shooting world class deer to be just a tiny bit selective. I always find it humorous that guys say they never see a 3 1/2 year old buck....maybe the fact that you shoot every buck you see that is 1 1/2 is part of the reason??? Jus sayin I mean, not a single 3 1/2 year old buck got to be 3 1/2 after being killed at 1 1/2.... The very first legal buck I passed 22 years ago was a 6 point. 3 minutes later a 10 point came by and I killed the biggest deer of my life at that time. Had I shot the 6 pointer I would have sent the 10 pointer running before I ever saw him.

[@stevedenoyer5956]

I don’t know if I’ve ever seen you without a hat until this video!

[@billsmith1241]

Hello Jeff. Sure have enjoyed your teaching videos this summer. Thanks. Have started my first 2 food plots ever, but unclear when you started your buckwheat. Thinking I should skip that step being in Central MO? Thanks

[@eddiewallace5272]

Dang good video Jeff, thanks for sharing your information with us ✅💥✌️

[@Minnesotalife]

My zone is a main tag & 2 bonus tags & early antlerless (3 tag limit). On my camera I get about 150 pictures in a week of doe. I’m if it’s brown it’s down but I try to hold of on bucks until I see a nine one, about mid October through the rut.

[@drewharman1690]

Jeff do you add urea to your green blend? If so how much

[@gregruotsala6266]

Thanks Jeff, main point,shoot what makes you happy! For me its actually more so getting someone in the right place to harvest their first mature animal. I understand the brown is down complaints, it does happen but that pressure helps quite often as well. As far as Amish, they build nice stands at a reasonable price.

[@buzzardlife]

QDM (Quality Deer Meat) is our running joke. we hunt the biggest and smallest deer. Fawns for meat quality and big bucks for impressing our buddies. The middle size deer get a pass. Jeff is the man and understands the social aspects of hunting. I use these videos to help achieve filling our walls and bellies. Thank you sir.

[@brianhunt5635]

I pass on young-ens. That being said, I've never been able to tell the difference between summer sausage made from a doe or a buck. Like Magnus says, "I'm not on this rock to play patty cake, I'm here to eat."

[@thehillbillyhermit7681]

I agree but, for me, I'll take 2 adult doe to eat and hold out for my "goal" buck

[@bowhunterforlife8119]

Thanks for the video. Your willingness to see all points of view is the reason I watch religiously. The arrogant “experts” I don’t watch or read. I have passed bucks for 26yrs relevant to the areas and states I am hunting. Passing bucks is my personal choice. I am happy for anyone who gets a deer that makes them happy and puts food on there table. Too many hunters want it easy to shoot big bucks. The fun is in the hunt for mature bucks. Beating the odds and the strategizing. I have also stayed and hunted with the Amish in Ny, Ohio, and Missouri for 20 years. Passionate big buck hunters is true. I’m proud and thankful to have them as my friends.

[@Blackpanther_risen]

Great content & informative. Im not a trophy hunter but will wait for a 3.5 or older but I mostly hunt bcz venison are delicious. I prefer a 1.5 yr old doe for eating….can’t eat antlers any way

[@basicinfo.9315]

Ha, I try to put a minimum of 5 deer in the freezer per season not to mention the dozens of rabbits and squirrel. 80% of my family's meat consumption is wild game. You spend your money and time and making a living by growing antlers. I spend mine on food. This is not a rant, its a discussion from the other side of the room. Maybe I fit a lot of people's description as a bad neighbor and that's ok. I raised my family of 6 on wild deer and game well before trophy hunting become a fad. Nothing bothers me more than a tropey hunter letting the meat of an animal go bad as long as the antlers are intact. My land is bought and paid for, no mortgage, no monthly payments, and I purchase my hunting tags each year so as long as im legal and responsible with my hunting tactics I will not let my neighbors tell me how to hunt or what to hunt. 2 years ago, me and my wife killed 2 does on state land. We had them hanging under the carport getting ready to process them. The neighbor stopped by and the first thing out of his mouth was "You're the kind of person that believes if its brown its down" He was 24 at the time and I was 62. I ran him off my property. The last thing out of his wife's mouth was "You should buy your meat at the grocery store like the rest of us, that way no animals have to die". Deer hunters that kill deer for reasons other than the size of the antlers are not all bad people. If I wanted to kill something just for fun, I would hunt coyotes and groundhogs. I know this is a long comment, but I wanted to put my 2 cents in on the subject because killing anything other than the SO CALLED TROPEY BUCK doesn't make you a bad person. I still enjoy your videos but for some reason this one hit a nerve. Good luck to all you hunters this year.

[@randyweaver3456]

Jeff, Really enjoyed this video and you made some excellent points - as always. I started deer hunting when I was 12 (54 years ago) and shot my first buck, a little 7-point that very first year. I was exceptionally proud of it and I was roundly congratulated by my dad and my entire family; consequently, a hunter was born. Now, after 54 years of hunting, occasionally interrupted over the course of a 20-year Army career, and having taken a pretty broad variety of game, MY standards have changed. I get to hunt in several different states, but I try very hard not to impose or push my standards on others, although I do preach herd quality, buck:doe ratio, quality habitat, etc., to receptive audiences. I live in a rural area and own 40 acres surrounded by well over 200 acres of private, mostly posted land in W. PA that's managed for herd quality. While I hold out for older age class deer and my property is posted, I do let one of my neighbors take his two sons hunting on my property and I want them to take a buck that meets their standards so they'll have the type of experience I had with my family. It's nice to see someone advocate for the average, "working Joe" hunter who can only hunt opening day and a Saturday or two.

[@justinsigmon1878]

I have watched many small bucks go out of sight and get blasted by neighbors on all sides.

[@mattd6128]

Not sure what to consider myself out of the 4 bullet points on the board but sure I fall in there somewhere. I whitetail hunt from sept. 1st through feb. I archery hunt and utilize the shotgun season in my area. I only have public land to hunt right now but have had pretty good success and at least put meat in my freezer. We are aloud 4 does and 2 bucks per season. I mostly take mature does when possible but also use my better judgment when it comes to size being more particular about not harvesting anything too young. As far as bucks go we have some fairly quality bucks on our state lands. I don’t specifically go out in chase of the biggest buck but if the opportunity presented itself I would surely be grateful. With our state harvest tags we are given 2 buck tags. One is a choice tag ( spike to ear length or larger) the second buck tag is called the Quality tag. Which the antler size (spread)must exceed 15 inches wide or outside the width of the ears and an estimated mainbeam diameter of 1 inch. A little difficult to judge but I usually figure if I’m second guessing those measurements it’s not a quality buck as far as the tag requirements go. I don’t always fill all 6 tags but I also let deer pass depending on what tags I have left and how much of the season is still to go. As far as the Amish community we have a pretty large population of Amish folks that hunt the state public land an I personally nor anyone I know has had anything negative to say on their method of take or how they prefer to harvest their deer. Truly unless someone is being unsafe or breaking any laws not much can be said on how they hunt or what deer they decided to take. It may not be one person or another’s way but I look at it like this if safety isn’t an issue ,laws are being followed, and being courteous to fellow hunters are being practiced , each is to their own. I feel like that is just part of sharing public property when hunting. This was a good topic to cover. Thank you for the video and looking forward to what you present next.

[@KCKPiTBuLL]

Let em' go, Let them grow!

[@drdes9609]

Spoon and Crockett club member right here. I enjoy hunting, love the meat and patience isn’t my strongest suite.

[@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751]

Had Veni last night and love it!

[@tannersteinborn7487]

One of the neighbors to my Dad's place is amish. They have 500 acres and its just the guy and his wife. Both trophy hunters and shoot 2 deer at most a year

[@rustymurdock1748]

Good info

[@chrisboyd1408]

very well said!

[@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751]

Thanks a lot Chris!

[@jimpeterson3806]

I truly believe that "brown it's down" came from Michigan. Hunted that way myself for many, many years. Those people don't bother me either. Different strokes for different strokes. I'm glad everyone isn't trophy hunters.

[@randyweaver3456]

Just FYI, I've heard the same thing in PA for years. I've even heard a couple guys refer to a "sound shot" - a shot taken at movement in the brush, obviously not knowing whether it's a buck, a doe, or even a deer at all.

[@dpwhitaker7088]

@@randyweaver3456 Randy I haven't heard the term sound shot since I was a kid in the sixties. When we would meet for lunch the older hunters would say sometimes all they got was a couple of sound shots! My dad explained the term to me and said if he ever caught me doing it my hunting days would be over. I later learned the older guys didn't do it either and used the term loosely to simply say they heard something but didn't see it.

[@andrewbrake586]

I need one of those hats frl👀

[@patschuette8045]

Morning guys another great video! My question is controlling marestail and other gly resistant weeds in your buckwheat no till system any suggestions much appreciated!!!! Thanks

[@jerryperron5243]

At what time of the season (after Sept lull?) do you see core bucks vs non core bucks in SW Wisconsin? Seeing some bucks now randomly….

[@bamasurp]

I finally have a little of my own land to hunt on but not much. I have some deer passing through and will attempt to make my little 2 wooded acres appealing for them but I can't really influence so I'll likely be the taker. I'll also have limited chances to put two deer in the freezer so it will likely be does. I see young bucks coming though and I'll let them go. Thanks for all of your information. I have always abided by owner restrictions on taking deer (6 points or more, etc.) or whatever where I have hunted. I think I mostly hunt deer sausage.

[@michiganman4398]

I had no idea how to deer hunt when I started. I hunted 17 years learning and making mistakes before I shot my first buck which was a small spike. That deer got me excited as I imagine shooting a 170 class deer would be to a lot of guys. Those spikes are still up on my wall with my biggest 8 point. I also have a shoulder mount of a five point with a broken rack on one side that was my first non spike buck. If I had to throw out all my mounts and keep one I would keep that one. That mount reminds me of a great weekend That I will always remember. Maybe my thinking will change in the future, but at this point it time everything that I successfully harvest still gets me really excited. I honestly hope I don’t get to a point where that excitement diminishes. Hunting is a very personal activity and we all must realize that as hunters since everyone’s situation is unique.

[@Alexander.McDonald]

The biggest buck I’ve ever seen near me is a 3.5 yr old 12 like 140 and as much as I love chasing mature bucks I get meat hunting 100% I just dislike the neighbor that kills 8-9 a year with out tags and out of season

[@rustymurdock1748]

Could you do a video on getting permission to hunt private land

[@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751]

That would be a great one Rusty!

[@billhanson3961]

I have four doe tags this year, and I’m pretty excited about it. Meat in the freezer!

[@noahwilliamson8433]

Can you make a video for trail camera location. Like for ppl that don’t have a lot of cameras “ let’s just say 3 or 4 cameras on 50 to 80 acres etc...” how would you approach it... putting them on green fields or traveling route too and from bedding from food source.... Alabama

[@justinsidervag8008]

Buck , doe , lamb . I never really notice till it's down . I'm to fixated on that spot behind the shoulder when they show up .

[@whitetailhabitatandhunting]

Thanks Jeff! I know a lot of people haven't had good rain, but here in IL, I think the water washed my seed to the edges of my food plot, is there anything I can plant real quick???

[@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751]

Hi Isaac! I would look to rye and more towards mid to late September with 150 to 200#s per acre

[@whitetailhabitatandhunting]

@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 Thanks Jeff!

[@kurtpearson2793]

This washing happened to me too (in areas). A big learning opportunity for me!

[@whitetailhabitatandhunting]

@@kurtpearson2793 Sure is! 👍

[@badbilly429]

Speaking of controlling invasives what is the formula of chemicals to kill wild raspberry’s up near Traverse City ?

[@terrydewayne7690]

Im brown and down on 2 borders of my 100 acre lease...my home and road on west border....mature only hunters on 1000 acres on south border...all my food is along western border by home and southern border where i know younguns wont get shot....my goal is to make every deer on my property get off bed and move WEST ! Or south ! With the promise of everything they want or need is right here...Huntin pressure to north and east sides help that..3rd season here coming up..and considering we get 3 bucks per season here per hunter, any size...i still managed to keep 3 or 4 nice framed 3 year olds alive last year and living on me all winter... Im an inside out hunter so i never blow my wind into the property...unfortunately...this means i give up west winds and south winds...i hunt western edge on east winds...southern food on north winds...for a week or so when times right i will walk all way around property line and sneak in backdoor for some morning and all day rut hunts...otherwise i just hunt east and north wind eves..flirting with the idea of not taking a buck this year on this property and trying to get a couple of them to 5 year old...unless its a mature traveler during rut...that being said...i hold no ill will to brown and downers...i was 1 for long time...if you want it and it makes you smile...shoot it...be happy..im just at the point where id rather watch 3 year olds move thru than shoot him...esp if i can consistently see him. Good luck to all and do what makes ya happy...urinate on any 1 that dont like it !

[@ddtrimdan7075]

Interesting video...

[@randydunmire]

I always say, shoot what makes you happy. Me, I pass on bucks most people in my area will shoot.

[@MrRABland]

Hey, Jeff. Why not throw one of those classy hats in with any purchase of your seeds? Might be a nice incentive to justify your elevated prices this year. Just a marketing thought.

[@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751]

I wish we could do charity 😊 The hats cost more tha. What we actually even make on the seed. However, we've had many buy both

[@ajkelley20]

Another great video.

[@jesserachal30]

I had a question about planting food plots during or after heavy rainfall here in Louisiana we have had a couple weeks of heavy rainfall and a lot more coming in the next week or 2 but I was planning on planting last weekend and we got rained out. My question is should I wait until all the rain is gone or should I find a break between storms to plant? Thanks for the informative videos they have helped me alot!!

[@stevendrake7818]

The land I hunt in Wisconsin has a healthy amount of bucks. BUT. For every buck In the area it seems like there are 2 poachers/trespassers. It doesn't matter what we've done to remedy the issue.

[@simon-pierverville5684]

How to Quebec land I have private land I have only one 2 year buck and 3 doe and zero fawn I got nice bedding and a small river in it

[@bowman8316]

Dang it

[@johnc7257]

Good theory unless your neighbor's are Takers that use bait and a spot light from the comfort of home on their adjoining half acre to your 100.

[@dannjohnsonZ28]

Do the Amish use chemicals for foodplots??

[@philipkellerman9826]

Worse than brown its down. I've a neighbor who, several years ago shot "at a buck" and "missed him clean" because "his stand shifted as he shot." Didn't even go look for blood, cut hair ANYTHING! 2 days later , I saw the buck from my lock on stands. Laying dead in the open about 80 yards from where he was shot. FF a couple years. He hit 3 bucks in archery season and didn't recover any of them. That same gun season he shot "at a buck and missed him clean too".

[@cameronbrennemanoutdoors]

I’m inbetween or leaning towards brown it’s down like I wanna wait for a big buck but when a legal 2-2.5 year old six gives me a no risky shot I’ll pull the trigger but if it’s risk shot I’m not shooting unless it’s big 8 or bigger but I will pass up small legals that are tiny baskets

[@jsloan0423]

I have Amish neighbors here in Ohio next to my land. I can honestly tell you we had bigger bucks, and more deer in general before they bought the neighboring property. They’re very good people but you don’t want to hunt near them.

[@waynemayle865]

Same here in my part of ohio the kill big little or small it's a shame

[@jsloan0423]

@@waynemayle865 year after year you pass deer to grow something of size you’d like to harvest and it never happens. Hard to kill big bucks when the neighbors are shooting all your up and comers.

[@waynemayle865]

@@jsloan0423 that's the truth there's to many out of towner any more morgan Washington an Athens County. There in here already setting-up stands an feeding corn it's crazy

[@jsloan0423]

@@waynemayle865 yeah it’s crazy. Amazing at how time changes things…and most of the time it’s not for the better.

[@kevinkirk3156]

I have a question, I saw the biggest buck of my life last year during archery season(prerut) about 90 yards away. What the % that he would come back this year? (If hes still around)

[@keithgunderson8926]

what percentage of glyphosate are you using or looking for in a bottle?

[@garrettromer8499]

No point in crying about what's not happening on ur land.

[@johnnyballgame7339]

Stupidest deer in the woods is a 1.5 year old buck during the rut...the ones that will walk under your stand 6 times in one day, completely oblivious. I tell friends that if shooting the stupidest deer in the woods excites you, then my property is not for you. The only exception I make is for kids who have never shot a buck. They get one free pass. I have a beautiful property adjacent to mine and I do a lot of work on my own property, but invariably because we don't have fences, we'll harvest one of the neighbor's target bucks...guess I'm a taker.

[@mikeguy9668]

We all started somewhere. People start hunting younger bucks that are easier and then progress from there. That's how you learn. Nobody just wakes up one day with all the knowledge they need to target 4+ year old bucks. That comes over time and many young dear. My opinion

[@CarlsontheOutdoorsman]

Hi Jeff! Quick question. A little off-topic for this video. I hunt a small choke point, and would like to install a watering hole. I want to do a tank as small as I reasonably can, as access is on foot. How big do I need to go to achieve 2 months (ish) before needing a refill?

[@jeffreydlugokinski9038]

Its all about the meat. The state allows a certain number of tags for a reason. Try to fill as many tags as your allowed to.

[@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751]

The state gives you tags as management tools and its up to you to use them responsibly. They can't go to every parcel of land and tell you what to shoot or not shoot based on the local, neighboring herd. So make sure you are making wise decisions 😉 Which isn't dictated by the number of tags in your pocket. Just because something is legal doesn't make it right, wise or ethical...

[@rorynelson7548]

I believe the biggest problem right now in the hunting industry is all the hype about monster bucks. Especially to newer hunters, because you're going to see more pics of bucks on TV, KZbin, social media than you do in nature and when you cant help but dream and/or compare and most likely have a very hard time feeling successful.

[@CExpress420]

I only have 20 combined archers of private land I hunt on, so I guess I'm a taker.

[@thehillbillyhermit7681]

The Mennonite families around this part of Western NY tend to decimate the deer and turkey numbers. Figure each family has on average, 3-6 members of legal hunting age, that's a possible 42 deer tags for that family if they partake in each season ! Now, when there are 6-9 Mennonite farms/families in a 20 or so mile diameter, even at 6 families, that's a minimum possible 252 tags ! After just 2 or 3 seasons of them filling their tags, I now see maybe 3-5 deer an entire season where I used to see 2-5 deer on at least 50% of my hunts. The Mennonites just get a few families together and they start at legal shooting time and just push all the land each farm has to hunt.

[@andrewvidal5325]

Did the same on the small public land parcel I always had success on. Rolled in with 10 to 12 guys (plus dogs, which is illegal in PA) and absolutely wiped out the whole hillside. Ran my cameras for almost 3 months over the summer on what used to be known travel routes and had a handful (by that i mean 4 pictures) of small does. Not even sure if it's worth suiting up this year to be honest.

[@drewhuber7391]

I think this is why we need states to have regulations that are good for the age structure of the herd. I've always said that you can only trust most hunters to do what is legal, not what is right for the herd. On my property in Michigan, it's truly a struggle to see more than a handful of 3-yr olds each year and if you pass one of those, you'll likely never see him again and he sure won't make it to 4 years old - I have a decade of tracking and passing to support this data. Too many hunters, too many small properties and regardless of what I do and what I pass, I can't influence all those properties around me that are killing most of the yearlings and more each year. It's a numbers game. If you shoot all the yearlings, you won't have enough 2 yr olds to make a good percentage of 3 yr olds, which makes anything 4+ an absolute rarity. The brown and down mindset in Michigan is the root cause and the insanely liberal regulations allow it to continue year-after-year and it's why we are one of the worst states in the midwest for good bucks. I do what I can and I typically kill a decent buck most years (mostly 3 yr olds, 100-120 inches), but it'll never be enough on my 65 acres and won't give me many opportunities for bigger bucks. There's simply a shortage of bucks, plain and simple. We have to be careful when we talk about this, because it promotes "do whatever you want and the neighbors with good habitat will still get good bucks". Not always true when it's a numbers game.

[@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751]

Amen to that Drew! Something so true is just because it is legal doesn't make it right...ethical, moral, etc.

[@joshc3792]

It is also a hunters numbers game and if state regulations make it too difficult to harvest a deer, it is going to end up making hunting such a difficult sport for novice hunters that you may end up eventually seeing hunting itself being the next thing regulated away. I get the idea of wanting that awesome buck, but many of us have a different definition of hunting success.

[@drewhuber7391]

@@joshc3792 I hear you, but the 2 yr old 8-point kill now takes the place of the old yearling kill, because there will be vastly more of them if you don't shoot all the yearlings with proper APRs in place. It is already proven data that hunter success does NOT go down, it is just supplemented by older bucks. Once you double or triple the number of 2-yr olds, you've won the game and this is what states with lower hunter number or better regulations have, because organically you will get more 3 and 4+ yr old deer. Let's try letting ALL levels of hunters have success. It's pretty easy to shoot a doe and wait for a 2yr old. My kids already practice this - 2 yr old or older or shoot a doe. But at this point, I am just passing for the neighbors to shoot....

[@damainkerek810]

"Taker" clubs are the norm around here. Many rules, like 8 point or better, etc. nothing to do with age. So, any new member, after spending in some cases, 3-5K WILL take that 2 1/2 year old that fits the "rules".

[@jerimahjohnson8698]

EHD is my big issue

[@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751]

Amen to that!

[@dmouse522]

Most of the deer here are shot by my Englisher neighbors, not my Amish neighbors.

[@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751]

So true!

[@KTMsoldier1988]

Come too my neck of the woods. About 15 yrs ago Game commision arrested 1 amish guy for shooting 50 deer and throwing them all in a sink hole!

[@dmouse522]

@@KTMsoldier1988 That's sad for sure. Not sure being Amish was the cause. Plenty of greed and stupidity no matter the creed. My neighbors use every stitch of the deer.

[@KTMsoldier1988]

@@dmouse522 it was all about crop damage. I have spoke with multiple amish that don't want the deer around period. Last year my neighbor killed 8 bucks the week before archery season. Its forced me to get away from my private ground and seek out some state ground. Setting on about 50 acres that surrounds the amish on 3 sides and the 4th side is interstate 80. Typically if im laying in bed at night and i hear a shot around 11pm or so its almost guaranteed he killed another one. Best part is he claims crop damage over his pumpkins. Haven't noticed too many deer eating pumpkins but maybe im wrong.

[@joshuawalsh8200]

👍

[@kurtpearson2793]

👍

[@Nollic15]

I hunt for meat, if it happens to have a nice rack great if not oh well. I know guys who spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours a year to maybe get one nice buck, I still spend hundreds of hours but the only money I spend now is on ammo and I can safely say hunting helps me financially by putting food on the table, most people will never break even on how much they spend vs how much food they actually get.

[@RonFleener]

I'm still green when it comes to hunting. I love hunting, hate killing, and enjoy processing it ourselves. I'll take a small buck if I'm not seeing any mature bucks just to have the meat.

[@drumandball]

Now it gets a little bit trickier when you share a parcel with a “brown it’s down” guy haha. Thanks for the comments though. Let people shoot what makes them happy, and don’t give ‘em a hard time about it.

[@E3fieldservices7144]

The best neighbors are the brown it's down mixed with the hunters that ride a 4 wheeler to the stand right at dawn on a 100 acre parcel then around 8:30 am they haven't seen any deer and fire it back up to go back to camp I know that within 5 to 10 minutes there will be some deer coming by me

[@Yaboifootchie]

We have plenty of deer in my area but people shoot just about any buck it seems like. I shoot does mostly to eat because I want the bucks to grow and compete to pass genes, getting only the best genes in the pool. If you smoke a spike, you’ll never see his potential

[@Jonnydeerhunter]

That is one very minor advantage to Ohio... We only can shoot one antlered deer a year. (Assuming people are following the law) people can't go out and only shoot a couple one year old bucks.. That being said, I agree. If someone only gets out once and awhile and is looking for one or 2 deer a year, by all means! If it makes you happy, go for it!

[@marclakatos1274]

And a couple of you stopped watching after reading the headline...

[@jehbread]

I can’t wait until opening firearm season because of the if it’s brown it’s down neighbor. My attention perks up when they fire up there atv I know the deer parade is about to kick off.

[@marijuonko7092]

Idc if u think a spike is a trophy. If your happy putting your tag on that animal dont let anyone else make u thinks that's wrong. I'd rather get a nice set of loins then a big rack. Not when I was younger. But in my older age. I hunt the tastiest looking deer.

[@justinstarr9828]

In your neck of the woods the amish may be pretty decent. In our county, here in Indiana. The north side of our county has hardly any deer and its mainly amish hunters, they trespass and drive private land without permission. Ive got multiple trail cam pics of many different amish on the grounds that I lease. Funny. Never had any non amish people on my cams. Im happy the amish aren't the. Same everywhere, but here they're not doing good things.

[@KTMsoldier1988]

Im in PA and have similar experiences!

[@dennis7470]

I don't care what they shoot. the problem is they don't stop with one or two, and there's a lot of them.

[@travismenge5002]

Hey Jeff, good video. And then you have the neighbor who's son, 30-35yr old, who can't and won't wait until season opener to shoot the big ones, and shoots them prior just so he can get them. Or they go out and stick the herd full of target tipped arrows just to be funny. Last 5 yrs we've shot deer that had at least one target tip stuck in their bodies. Sickening just to talk about it.

[@DOUBLEO_ObsessionOutdoors]

Thats disgusting, the human piece of crap doing that should have the warden called on him and be prosecuted to the fullest extent

[@georgehelzer7569]

it boils down to whether its legal or not. If its legal, then so what? I really hate a lot of the hunting community self bashing.

[@alindbloom9718]

This is my neighbors. Just bad hunters. They may kill a decent buck once every few years. But they will sniper a mature buck from their window. Pissed me off.

[@Larrabjl]

Hunting is meat 1st trophy 2nd. People need to remember that is what Hunting is about.

[@adamdrouin2295]

Hunting is about different things to different people

[@rednecksciencechannel5723]

The Amish are great. They have excellent birth rates, and great cheese. 7 children per family!